TROMBONE-L Digest 2300 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Orch out of date? by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 2) RE: TiN by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 3) Edwards Bell flair for sale by rjacosta@juno.com 4) Anything happening in NY? by Jimkinkella1@aol.com 5) Edwards bell flair for sale by rjacosta@juno.com 6) great recording & contrabass sackbut? by Gabriel Langfur 7) Shires or Bach Bass Bone Dual Bore Slide by "Roger Carmichael" 8) Program Notes for Patrick Mc Carty, Sonata for Bass Trombone by Galen Zinn 9) Microfilm manuscripts - music for sale by Douglas Yeo 10) Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so by "Joe L. Norcross" 11) Mahler 3 by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 12) Re: Mahler 3 by "Art Triggs" 13) Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so by "Aaron Roth" 14) Oh miGod! I shrunk my lip. by "Daniel Pliskin" 15) RE: Oh miGod! I shrunk my lip. by "Jon Moeller" 16) Re: Mahler 3 by Roger Hecht 17) Re: Mahler 3 by Roger Hecht 18) [Fwd: Mahler 3] by James Scott 19) Re: Mahler 3 by Eric & Candice Swanson 20) I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by "Bob Byers" 21) RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by "Jeff Albert" 22) Re: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by alex iles 23) Re: great recording & contrabass sackbut? by Howard Weiner 24) RE: Mahler 3 by "Dale J. Cruse" 25) RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by "Wessner, John" 26) Re: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by Clingo 27) RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? by john.mcvey@cablespeed.com 28) Re: Mahler 3 by "smith.howard" 29) ITA Competition Results by "Joshua Brown" 30) Plunger w/trigger notes (was:Re: Breath attacks now it's stupid mute tricks) by sabutin 31) RE: Plunger w/trigger notes (was:Re: Breath attacks now it's stupidmute tricks) by "Gary Maxwell" 32) Orchestras in trouble? was instrument evolution by Gabriel Langfur 33) Re: Bass Trombone/Tenor Trombone Doubling Advice by sabutin 34) Re: Mahler 3 by briar@chicagonet.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:04:02 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: mathews@mwsc.edu, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Orch out of date? Message-ID: <42.222a6ad1.299c0492@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You left Chaucer off the list..of things to be omitted. Oh well, tales will be tales. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:42:35 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: sarapete@sympatico.ca, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: RE: TiN Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F860@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1B4BE.33F4ED40" Try doing your online search with the terms PVD, physical vapor deposition, and Moen plumbing products. You should get some nice hits. Also walk through your local Home Depot, Lowes, etc, and look at the really shiny and fairly expensive brass finish faucets and fixtures in the plumbing section. Mirror finishes that resist corrosion and steel wool, last forever and come in various colors.Ę The stuff is so thin it would have to be like having an unlacquered bell without the cosmetic and maintenance problems. As far as I know nobody has tried it on a bell, but as noted Willson uses a variation (zirconium nitride instead of titanium nitride, I think) on their inner slides, and a forum member has mentioned some mouthpiece plating thoughts, not sure if he got anywhere with it.Ę One of the problems is that until now, the vacuum chamber was too small for a big part, and the process is high temperature enough to melt solder, so you'd have to do your horn in pieces and reassemble. The chamber is now up to a meter across, but I think you still have the heat problem.Ę -----Original Message----- From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur [mailto:sarapete@sympatico.ca] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:37 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: TiN Hi all, Could someone tell me more about "TiN"? What is it? What is it commonly used for? How can it be used with trombones? What does it stand for? I tried to doing a search online but google is not case sensitive so I get a whole lot of info on "tin". Not what I am interested in! Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:34:32 -0800 From: rjacosta@juno.com To: TROMBONE-L@po.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Edwards Bell flair for sale Message-ID: <20020213.133433.-105363.0.rjacosta@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have an Edwards 1200CF bell flair for sale on the http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp web site. In addition to what it says there, please note that it has been shaped from a "J" mandrel, the classic Conn 72H flair for playing jazz or anything with a compact sound. It really barks out the low notes with a focus which I think will pleasantly surprise you. It is 22 gauge, and has a soldered rim. I am willing to listen to any reasonable offer. thanks, Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:39:01 EST From: Jimkinkella1@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Anything happening in NY? Message-ID: <190.2396fca.299c36f5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I'm going to be spending some time in New York sometime this/next month, and I was wondering if anyone out there could give me any info on anything I should check out; ie: used music/instrument shops, hip blues/jazz clubs (or blues/jazz jams!). I'm making a stop in Manhattan tomorrow, any local pulications I should pick up to check out the scene? any info is appreciated Jim Kinkella (shoulda bought stock in Guiness the day before my 21st birthday...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:37:30 -0800 From: rjacosta@juno.com To: TROMBONE-L@po.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Edwards bell flair for sale Message-ID: <20020213.133739.-105363.1.rjacosta@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have an Edwards 1200CF bell flair for sale on the http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp web site. In addition to what it says there, please note that it has been shaped from a "J" mandrel, the classic Conn 72H flair for playing jazz or anything with a compact sound. It really barks out the low notes with a focus which I think will pleasantly surprise you. It is 22 gauge, and has a soldered rim. These generally take a couple of months to order from Edwards, and cost about $700 brand new. This is in excellent condition no dents lacquer fully intact (only a year old). I am willing to listen to any reasonable offer. thanks, Richard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:21:36 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: great recording & contrabass sackbut? Message-ID: <20020213222136.8400.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all, I'm sitting in my day job office (the Boston Early Music Festival) listening to a fantastic recording: Annibale Padovano's Messe a 24 voix, recorded by the Huelgas Ensemble under Paul van Nevel. Harmonia Mundi HMC 0901727 Padovano was music director at San Marco in Venice before the Gabrielis, 1552-1565, then in Graz, Austria. The piece on the recording is a mass for 3 choirs of eight voices each, with both high and low parts that are out of most vocal ranges - probably intended for wind instruments, specifically cornetti & trombone. So Van Nevel does two versions on the recording, first with 21 voices, 2 cornetti and one "Saqueboute contrebasse" - then again with only three vocal parts and 21 instruments, including 6 alto sackbuts, 7 tenors, 1 contrabass, 5 cornetti and 3 renaissance bassoons (I guess that doesn't quite add up - maybe different personnel on different recording days). First of all, WOW! it sounds fantastic. If you like this kind of music, this is a must-have. Second of all, Wim Becu plays the contrabass and sounds absolutely amazing. Is anyone on the list familiar enough with him or his work that they would know what key the instrument is in? There are some unbelievably low notes that I haven't tried to identify yet. Quick story: I saw them live in a program of Morales, with Wim Becu playing tenor & bass sackbut. He's just an amazing musician, with an absolutely gorgeous sound on those instruments. While exiting the stage during the bows, van Nevel nearly tripped over his bass sackbut, hooking his foot into the top crook (where a modern tuning slide would be) and dragging the instrument about 6 feet. The slide almost came off, and Wim was able to hand off the tenor in his hand to the player next to him and check it out right away - it seemed the instrument survived just fine... Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:06:40 -0500 From: "Roger Carmichael" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Shires or Bach Bass Bone Dual Bore Slide Message-ID: <000701c1b4e3$1a6cd340$350bea3f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List, I have a practically new .563/.578 heavyweight dual bore slide for sale which will fit a Shires or Bach 50 Bass Trombone. See it on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1513266087 Roger Carmichael ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:20:09 -0800 From: Galen Zinn To: Trombone List Post Subject: Program Notes for Patrick Mc Carty, Sonata for Bass Trombone Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I need information about Patrick Mc Carty, who wrote Sonata for Bass Trombone, for recital program notes. I would appreciate any help you could give me. Thanks, Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:54:26 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Microfilm manuscripts - music for sale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" For those interested in old music, primary sources, manuscripts, etc, have a look at: http://www.gale.com/psm/ click on the "Music Collections Sale" on the left hand side. If you have access to a microfilm reader, you may find something interesting. Some of the resources look to be stunning. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:29:17 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Message-ID: <007901c1b504$5f0d7a60$600b56d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or soEvery time a composer adds an intrment to the orchestral palate, he or she runs the risk of it not being played. Why, because the managment does not want to spend money on another player Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Michael To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so At 5:24 PM -0600 2/12/02, Jon Moeller wrote: So my question is this: Have more "classical" instruments passed their prime? Will we be seeing Electronics in an orchestra any time soon? Is the Orchestra "out of date"? My answer is that the more "classical" instruments have not passed their prime. I listen to a fairly large amount of new orchestral music and continue to be amazed at the variety of sounds, emotions, colors.... that can be explored with the standard symphony orchestra. Granted, a decent percentage of these new pieces include electronics. However, I am rarely convinced that the addition of these instruments were critical to the overall success of the piece. I also worry that as composers demand a wider range of instrumentation including rare instruments they serve to limit the performance and impact of their work. Andy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:17:14 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <004001c1b506$1a2afa60$e57b4d0c@trbnplyr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear listers, I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. I have the CSO/Levine recording on vinyl, and I have a recording with London, and I heard the NY Phil recording with Bernstein today, and for the most part, it's very good. Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? Paul D. Kemp Jr. Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:32:19 -0500 From: "Art Triggs" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <00c701c1b508$355fa130$f6a315ac@taz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Favorites are: London Symphony w / Denis Wick believe it is Colin Davis conducting, Vienna Phil.w/ Kubelik, don't have a clue where to find it, but the trombonist is great, well the rest of the orchestra too ;-) LA Phil with Ralph Sauer, fairly recent. Bernstein & NY Phil. (Ed Herman) no doubt there are others, but these all have various things about the way they are performed that appeal to me, they are also all VERY different from each other. Regards Art Triggs "What do you call a bunch of sax-playing terrorists? ......Kenny G-had!" quote Walter Barrett ( who had too much free time on his hands today ;-)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:17 PM Subject: Mahler 3 > Dear listers, > I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. I have the CSO/Levine > recording on vinyl, and I have a recording with London, and I heard the NY > Phil recording with Bernstein today, and for the most part, it's very good. > Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? > > Paul D. Kemp Jr. > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:47:12 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Surely the earlier writers of contrabass trombone (VarŹse, a few before him, possibly including even Wagner) ran a mighty risk of not being able to find an instrument or player for the part. Same goes for modern writers for Ondes Martenot, Heckelphone, Chapman stick, bass flute (even alto flute sometimes), soprano trombone, and a host of other nonstandard instruments. Who knows an Ondes Martenot virtuoso? Who has even heard of a Chapman stick? For a time, contrabassoon enjoyed the same difficulty in including in the orchestral fabric, as did the piccolo and English horn. New instruments are constantly being invented, and most are discarded not long after or at least never gain real popularity. Tenoroons, the musette, the Eb small flute, and the tenor trumpet are comparatively rare instruments because they did not offer significant enough timbral or technical advantages to composers at the time of invention. Who wants to write for a useless instrument? The tenor trumpet may not count, though, as a few major composers have written for it (Stravinsky, for example). To address the problem Joe raises, the most cost-efficient way to write for new instruments is to have existing players double on them wherever possible. For my Trio Alto (for alto flute, English horn, and piano, to be premiered this spring), certainly a flutist and oboist will play the wind parts; there is almost no such thing as an alto flute specialist, and English horn specialists are only slightly more common. In the orchestra, though, is where actual doubling is most useful, if the composer can assume that a player knows or can learn a new instrument quickly and well enough to suffice. Rambling slightly, Aaron Roth Bass Trombone From: "Joe L. Norcross" Reply-To: joetuba@lightspeed.net To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or so Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:29:17 -0800 Re: Instrument design over the past 100 years or soEvery time a composer adds an intrment to the orchestral palate, he or she runs the risk of it not being played. Why, because the managment does not want to spend money on another player Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 03:47:30 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Oh miGod! I shrunk my lip. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I took a week off of trombone. My bursitis was acting up, so I just played oboe for the week. But then I got the flu and didnât practice anything for another week. I picked the trombone back up, a couple days ago and, I swear·my top lip has shrunk by about 3/8ä in length. I can hit some respectably high stuff, like this, but the rest of my pathetic range sounds about as thin as the high stuff. Bottom line. I donât know what I did wrong, but whatever it was, donât do that! DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the worldâs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:55:44 -0600 From: "Jon Moeller" To: "Trombone List" Subject: RE: Oh miGod! I shrunk my lip. Message-ID: <000001c1b50b$7ac604f0$9401a8c0@Jon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think what you did wrong is not practice =) But that sucks about your lip, it's probably a lack of blood or something like that, or maybe I have no idea and am just making stuff up. -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:48 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Oh miGod! I shrunk my lip. I took a week off of trombone. My bursitis was acting up, so I just played oboe for the week. But then I got the flu and didn't practice anything for another week. I picked the trombone back up, a couple days ago and, I swear.my top lip has shrunk by about 3/8" in length. I can hit some respectably high stuff, like this, but the rest of my pathetic range sounds about as thin as the high stuff. Bottom line. I don't know what I did wrong, but whatever it was, don't do that! DanP _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:59:51 -0500 From: Roger Hecht To: paul@trbnplyr.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020213225900.00a64100@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_19094377==_.ALT" At 10:17 PM 2/13/2002 -0500, Paul D. Kemp, Jr. wrote: Dear listers, I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. I have the CSO/Levine recording on vinyl, and I have a recording with London, and I heard the NY Phil recording with Bernstein today, and for the most part, it's very good. Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? Paul D. Kemp Jr. Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com The best Mahler 3 recording I know of in toto, not necessarily just the trombone solo, is the Horenstein with (I think) the London Symphony. Probably Denis Wick played the solo, but I have no idea for sure. I know the question was about the trombone, but Horenstein's Third is really a classic for anyone interested in this symphony. The most musical playing of the solo I have heard in a while is, of all things, on a recording I reviewed for ARG by the Manhattan School of Music orchestra with Glen Cortese. The trombonist is a student (I presume) named Paul Whichard. He played with some uncanny instinct and insight. The label is Titanic 252. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:00:37 -0500 From: Roger Hecht To: artyart@bestweb.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020213230016.00a65860@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_19094432==_.ALT" At 10:32 PM 2/13/2002 -0500, Art Triggs wrote: My Favorites are: My Favorites are: London Symphony w / Denis Wick believe it is Colin Davis conducting, I think it's Solti. Or maybe Levine, who may also have done his Third with the LSO. I'm not sure. Vienna Phil.w/ Kubelik, don't have a clue where to find it, but the trombonist is great, well the rest of the orchestra too ;-) Kubelik did a Mahler 3 with Vienna? What label? The only Kubelik Third I know is with the Bavarian Radio Symphony on DG. LA Phil with Ralph Sauer, fairly recent. Sauer is probably the soloist on the other LA recording of the Third with Mehta. I haven't heard that in a while. Roger Hecht ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:53:50 -0700 From: James Scott To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: [Fwd: Mahler 3] Message-ID: <3C6B50EE.77FDAF44@ucalgary.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5A195E49D417408A1E364B3A" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3C6B4F64.9AC9D0F8@ucalgary.ca> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:47:16 -0700 From: James Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul@trbnplyr.com Subject: Re: Mahler 3 References: <004001c1b506$1a2afa60$e57b4d0c@trbnplyr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul - There will certainly be a lot of disagreement on this topic, but along with some of the recordings already mentioned, I also like Peter Norton's w/Cincinnati, Michael Mulcahy's w/Cologne, and Carsten Svandberg's w/Danish Radio Orch. The best performance that I've ever heard was a tape of a broadcast of the Toronto Symphony with Gordon Sweeney playing the solo. He is one of my favorite players - a sound that catches the ear of everyone that hears him, regardless of what instrument they play. Unfortunately, this was just a tape from the radio, and it is not a commercially available product (I don't even have a copy myself). Gordon is a year or two away from retirement - definitely a player that more people around the world should know about -one of the great orchestral trombonists. Jim Scott "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." wrote: > Dear listers, > I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. I have the CSO/Levine > recording on vinyl, and I have a recording with London, and I heard the NY > Phil recording with Bernstein today, and for the most part, it's very good. > Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? > > Paul D. Kemp Jr. > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:08:38 -0500 From: Eric & Candice Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <3C6B5466.7CA7D8D@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." wrote: > I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. .......... > Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? Dallas Symphony has a pretty recent one. John Kitzman plays the solo. (I was playing forth trombone, so I might be a little prejudiced). Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 02:35:41 -0500 From: "Bob Byers" To: Subject: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: <002b01c1b52a$34a1aff0$0100a8c0@dell4100> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have never been able to whistle, and I used to blame it on having developed such an extreme trombone embouchure that it just wouldn't bend into the correct whistle embouchure. But then I heard Bill Watrous whistle a tune, accompanied by full combo, in front of a room full of trombonists at an ITW (Nashville, back in the late 80's I think it was). Man could he whistle! Complete with typically Watrous-like virtuosity, and even a few choruses for improv! His whistling stands on its own, right up there with his trombone playing. Boy did that blow the wind out of my sorry sail-of-an-excuse for not being able to whistle! So, I've wondered ever since whether others have whistled as easy as Bill, or have struggled like me. And whether the lack of whistle skills indicates a deficiency in embouchure development or practice habits. Opinions anyone? BTW If I had to characterize my own playing, I'd say I have a good sound with strong embouchure - strong in terms of producing a decent sound and providing very good range (at least, for the weekend warrior I've become) and endurance - but not particularly flexible .. flexibility has been one of my downfalls, even though flexibility studies have always had a prominent place on my warm-up, practice and warm-down regimens. Also, I've stuck to the same beloved mouthpiece for about 14 years, and the one prior to that for 10 years - always wanted to avoid giving my embouchure any chance for confusion - but perhaps the flip side of that is you don't develop an ability to form any embouchure other than the one you use every day. -Bob, Andover, MA USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:42:13 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: <000001c1b52b$1e0f39a0$59219d42@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a terrible whistler, but I was a terrible whistler before I ever picked up a trombone. That being said, I too feel that flexibility is the weakest aspect of my embouchure. I wonder if there is a connection to stiff upper lips and whistling. :) Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Byers Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:36 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? I have never been able to whistle, and I used to blame it on having developed such an extreme trombone embouchure that it just wouldn't bend into the correct whistle embouchure. But then I heard Bill Watrous whistle a tune, accompanied by full combo, in front of a room full of trombonists at an ITW (Nashville, back in the late 80's I think it was). Man could he whistle! Complete with typically Watrous-like virtuosity, and even a few choruses for improv! His whistling stands on its own, right up there with his trombone playing. Boy did that blow the wind out of my sorry sail-of-an-excuse for not being able to whistle! So, I've wondered ever since whether others have whistled as easy as Bill, or have struggled like me. And whether the lack of whistle skills indicates a deficiency in embouchure development or practice habits. Opinions anyone? BTW If I had to characterize my own playing, I'd say I have a good sound with strong embouchure - strong in terms of producing a decent sound and providing very good range (at least, for the weekend warrior I've become) and endurance - but not particularly flexible .. flexibility has been one of my downfalls, even though flexibility studies have always had a prominent place on my warm-up, practice and warm-down regimens. Also, I've stuck to the same beloved mouthpiece for about 14 years, and the one prior to that for 10 years - always wanted to avoid giving my embouchure any chance for confusion - but perhaps the flip side of that is you don't develop an ability to form any embouchure other than the one you use every day. -Bob, Andover, MA USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:19:37 -0800 From: alex iles To: robertbyers@mediaone.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: <3C6B7315.A4A1EB2F@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Bob Byers wrote: > I have never been able to whistle, and I used to blame it on having > developed such an extreme trombone embouchure that it just wouldn't bend > into the correct whistle embouchure. > > But then I heard Bill Watrous whistle a tune, accompanied by full combo, in > front of a room full of trombonists at an ITW (Nashville, back in the late > 80's I think it was). Man could he whistle! Complete with typically > Watrous-like virtuosity, and even a few choruses for improv! His whistling > stands on its own, right up there with his trombone playing. > > Boy did that blow the wind out of my sorry sail-of-an-excuse for not being > able to whistle! > > So, I've wondered ever since whether others have whistled as easy as Bill, > or have struggled like me. And whether the lack of whistle skills indicates > a deficiency in embouchure development or practice habits. > > Opinions anyone? > Cool topic. I'll chime in... I think humming, singing and whistling are great ways to solidify a player's pitch and melodic awareness. I am not even thinking here in terms of embouchure specifically, although some link may be made there, I suppose. Many players I know are shy to try it. Whistling and singing [maybe this could be a new category of..."Non-instrumental music making"?] can really be a great way to engage other parts of your "non-trombone" musicianship to actually enhance the trombone side of things. Essential in fact, even if your ear is not that developed. Singing a phrase on a piece of music out loud [even if your pitch is lousy at first] helps you to "feel" phrases and connect something in your head/ear with doing it on an instrument. Whistling, more than singing, IMO,is even closer to a "wind" instrument [even if, similarly you are a lousy whistler]. As far as whistling as an embouchure model...I have heard several teachers advocating using whistling as an analogy for how to visualize playing, especially in the upper register [doesn't Tom Ervin mention that in his book, "Rangebuilding"?]. I like using this idea whenever I play in the "high ballad" range above A or Bb [above middle C] and higher . It's not really a full "shift", but somehow thinking about whistling seems to reduce the much strain I feel up there. One other little related story. A couple of great big band lead trumpet players I know, when they describe in war story form, some prolonged high passage they recently played, will often demonstrate the given phrase using something resembling a "taxi hailing" whistle [it sounds something like "whi-SHHHH", with the tongue arched high in the mouth]. I don't think this is a coincidence. I am pretty sure that is how close to how THEY use their air stream in the more extreme upper registers on the horn. Happy Valentine's Day, everyone, Alex ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:37:58 +0100 From: Howard Weiner To: glangfur@yahoo.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: great recording & contrabass sackbut? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020214102701.009f5720@mail.sampo.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 14:21 13.02.02 -0800, Gabriel Langfur wrote: Second of all, Wim Becu plays the contrabass and sounds absolutely amazing. Is anyone on the list familiar enough with him or his work that they would know what key the instrument is in? By definition, the contrabass trombone is an octave below the tenor. The instrument Wim is playing is therefore in BBb at modern pitch (A=440) or AA at old choir pitch (A=ca. 465). Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:48:29 -0500 From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: RE: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <000801c1b555$e7389fe0$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About two and a half years ago when I was a photojournalist at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, I interviewed the principal trombonist of the band there. Staff Sgt. Lori Salimando has served in the bands of three different services. Here's an excerpt from the article with her thoughts on the trombone solo on Mahler 3: "She left military service to freelance in the D.C. and Baltimore areas. One day, after hearing a recording of Mahler's Third Symphony on her car radio, she "nearly drove off the road; the trombone solo was so good!" That soloist was Joe Alessi, principal trombonist of the New York Philharmonic. "I dialed information, called him, and told him I had to study with him," she said. "I think he's the best trombone player in the whole world."" If anyone is interested, here's a link to the full article on my site: http://www.dalecruse.com/military_academy.htm Regards, Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Paul D. Kemp, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:17 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Mahler 3 Dear listers, I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. I have the CSO/Levine recording on vinyl, and I have a recording with London, and I heard the NY Phil recording with Bernstein today, and for the most part, it's very good. Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? Paul D. Kemp Jr. Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:44:21 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I once read or heard that there are over a dozen different ways of whistling. I, for one, can whistle a happy tune with my lips and make some sounds with my tongue directing the air across my teeth, ("taxi hailing"). I have never been able to stick my fingers in my mouth and be heard for miles. I had a colleague for many years who whistled baroque flute sonatas. Unfortunately, I never heard Watrous whistle - except when he was in that range on the trombone. One other interesting tidbit. Our whistling is at least an octave above where most of us think it is. jw - ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:08:42 -0600 From: Clingo To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: <3C6BC4EA.D53BA338@swbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I started whistling before I started playing trombone. It took a week or so of intense concentration, but I finally got a somewhat controllable noise to come out. I found that my whiatling improved when I started trombone, and to this day, when I've been playing the trombone, my whistling is much easier and better (alas, the converse is not true). The only thing that hasn't improved in my whistling is range. I still can do only about 2 1/2 octaves. cc ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:19:58 GMT From: john.mcvey@cablespeed.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: I can't whistle. Bill can. Can you? Message-ID: <200202141420.g1EEK3F23400@po.missouri.edu> I've always been a fairly decent whistler, being a country boy from Mississippi, not so much with a great variance in high or low range, but in using the tongue to modulate the tone and play very technical passages fairly easily. I could trill and do flips and portamentes while whistling the blues like Jack Teagarden, and even whistle fast runs like JJ, but I couldn't even come close to doing it on the trombone. While playing with a trombone teacher and high school band director friend of mine, I was lamenting over not being as technically competent as I wanted to be. He told me that I should practice the same techniques with my tongue on my horn as I do while whistling. I guess that should have been a no-brainer but I had never even equated the two skills as being similar. I gave it a try, and while I have never achieved, and never will, the prowess of a Jack Teagarden, it certainly has improved my doodle-tongueing to the point where when The Crabtowne Big Band plays something like Sweet Georgia Brown at about 180-220mm, I can keep up comfortably and feel good about playing those 8th note runs without being out of control. I also picked up Bob McChesney's book and that has given me lots of material to work with, too. John McVey Crabtowne's Website: http://www.crabtownebigband.com > I once read or heard that there are over a dozen different ways of whistling. I, for one, can whistle a happy tune with my lips and make some sounds with my tongue directing the air across my teeth, ("taxi hailing"). I have never been able to stick my fingers in my mouth and be heard for miles. I had a colleague for many years who whistled baroque flute sonatas. Unfortunately, I never heard Watrous whistle - except when he was in that range on the trombone. > > One other interesting tidbit. Our whistling is at least an octave above where most of us think it is. > jw > > - > ----------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CableSpeed Webmail. http://www.one.net/ -- http://www.us.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:31:46 -0000 From: "smith.howard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <005101c1b56c$b75ceb20$31ecff3e@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You have all mentioned one of my favourites. The LSO recording features Denis Wick conducted by Jascha Horenstein. (Art mentioned Colin Davis with this combination. I would check out his Berlioz cycles: one from the 60s - very well liked and another from the last 2 or 3 years.) I also like both Bernstein's with the NYPO (Herman and Alessi) and recently purchased two others: The HallŽ under Sir John Barbirolli (I think the trombone soloist must be Maisie Ringham, not absolutely sure though. The booklet doesn't say.) and Simon Rattle conducting the CBSO (Philip Harrison). All great but very different. The Rattle has some interesting idiosyncrasies in places. I would like to hear the Philharmonia under Sinopoli (with, I think, Dudley Bright, now with the LSO, on trombone. He is an amazing player.) At present it is only available in a reissue of the whole cycle. And while we are on the subject of Mahler 3, let's not forget the wonderful posthorn/flugel solo in the third movement. Jonathan Quirk (for Rattle) comes in from nowhere with beautifully controlled playing. Willy Lang (LSO) was a legend in the UK. For excellent reviews of the symphony on record check out Tony Duggan's site: http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Mahler/index.html Best wishes Howard ----- Original Message ----- From: Art Triggs To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:32 AM Subject: Re: Mahler 3 > My Favorites are: > London Symphony w / Denis Wick believe it is Colin Davis conducting, > Vienna Phil.w/ Kubelik, don't have a clue where to find it, but the > trombonist is great, well the rest of the orchestra too ;-) > LA Phil with Ralph Sauer, fairly recent. > Bernstein & NY Phil. (Ed Herman) > no doubt there are others, but these all have various things about the way > they are performed that appeal to me, they are also all VERY different from > each other. > Regards > Art Triggs > > "What do you call a bunch of sax-playing terrorists? ......Kenny G-had!" > quote Walter Barrett ( who had too much free time on his hands today ;-)) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:17 PM > Subject: Mahler 3 > > > > Dear listers, > > I am looking for a good recording of Mahler 3. I have the CSO/Levine > > recording on vinyl, and I have a recording with London, and I heard the NY > > Phil recording with Bernstein today, and for the most part, it's very > good. > > Is there a general consensus about who does the trombone solo well? > > > > Paul D. Kemp Jr. > > Chattanooga Symphony > > www.trbnplyr.com > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:40:24 -0600 From: "Joshua Brown" To: "Trombone L" Subject: ITA Competition Results Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1B53B.A0993E60" The ITA Competition finalists and winners have been announced. You may see the results at: http://www.ita-web.org/competitions/ The Van Haney finalists will soon be added to this list. Josh Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:47:16 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Plunger w/trigger notes (was:Re: Breath attacks now it's stupid mute tricks) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" OK..I've got a question about mutes...I always seem to get a call for a plunger mute when playing a "trigger" note, that is a note below the staff. How do you do both? Ed \ =============== I recently saw a very good Australian bass trombonist named Adrian Sherriff who had largely solved this problem He was playing with a troupe of avant-garde Balinese puppeteers...a very elaborate show that is on world tour. About 10 musicians, another 10 shadow puppeteers, some film... The Balinese shadow puppets are manipulated behind a backlit screen, casting shadows, and they are on sticks. One of the puppeteers made Adrian a very simple plunger-on-a-stick that attaches...velcro, I think...to his left calf, stick side along the shin. When he moves his left foot forward from thew knee, the plunger, if adjusted to the proper height, covers his bell. Pull the foot back, the plunger goes away from the bell. Elegant, simple, and it works!! He got a LOT of trigger and pedal plunger effects. Sounded GREAT. Only question is...seeing as how simple this solution is...why didn't anyone ever come up w/it before? (Duh...) S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:14:03 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Plunger w/trigger notes (was:Re: Breath attacks now it's stupidmute tricks) Message-ID: <659829993461CA49942D1312DE3436918309CC@edcenmail1.bcsd.k12.ca.us> Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1B57B.004783B6" Only question is...seeing as how simple this solution is...why didn't anyone ever come up w/it before? (Duh...) S. ============================================================ I remember a mute holder that would attach to the lip on a stage front type stand that had a bent rod to hold a Glenn Miller style "Derby" (Hat Mute), that we were 'relatively' successful in rebending to use for a plunger. It worked, KINDA. I wonder, though, just how many times has George Roberts been asked to use a plunger mute? DU-Wop Du-Wop-Wop, just doesn't...., well, errrr, uhhh. Become him? All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Orchestras in trouble? was instrument evolution Message-ID: <20020214174935.8211.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii OK, this is long, so please ignore if it doesn't interest you... The conventional wisdom is that orchestras are dying, but there are arguments to be made for the opposite viewpoint. Here's one by the Philadelphia Enquirer critic...there's an even better article I read by the President of the Board of the Chicago Symphony...I'll look for it. Reports of Their Demise Are Greatly Exaggerated David Patrick Stearns Much of the press has taken the widely reported financial troubles of the St. Louis, Toronto and Chicago Symphonies to indicate that orchestras in North America are an endangered species. David Patrick Stearns says they've got it all wrong. With cyclic regularity, symphonic music and opera in the United States and Canada are declared to be expiring on the operating table or carrying on like shot pheasants, biologically dead but still flapping their wings. These supposed death knells are heard every seven to ten years. Why, then, are so many opera companies and symphonic organizations stronger than ever? The reason is simple: The industry's utter decentralization assures that trouble in St. Louis or Toronto doesn't necessarily spell problems elsewhere, any more than a hurricane in Florida causes devastation in Oregon or Quebec. Classical music groups aren't different branches of the same tree. Often, they're not even in the same forest. In fact, they're best thought of in terms of microclimates. Of course, American orchestras and opera companies share problems caused by economic downturns. And there are industry-wide trends, such as the growth prompted by the Ford Foundation grants of the 1960s, the decline brought on by the lack of music education in public schools beginning in the 1970s, the renewing influence from the compact disc boom of the 1980s and the atrophying of the National Endowment for the Arts in the 1990s. Seismic developments, all. However, the degree and even tenor of their impact is inevitably colored by local factors, such as the generosity (or parsimony) of local governments, foundations and corporations. Consider, too, that a symphony orchestra is rarely just a symphony orchestra: in some communities, they support choruses; others present touring Broadway shows and visiting orchestras and artists. Some have sophisticated educational components. Opera companies exist in even more wide-ranging mutations, some relying on local conservatories for secondary casting, some building all their own productions, some borrowing all their costumes. So not only are their budgets configured differently, but even those budgets' size isn't comparable: given cost-of-living-and-working differences, Baltimore dollars, for example, have rather different value than Washington, D.C. dollars — and the two cities are only 60 kilometers apart. The magnitude of financial woes and windfalls is all a matter of context. Consider the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, which anticipates a $1.3 million deficit for 2001–2002, its first shortfall in 15 years. For a small orchestra, that's disaster, but the CSO's annual budget is $59 million (and its endowment is $168 million). Nevertheless, many see this cash-flow problem as an alarming symbol of how troubled the American symphony orchestra is. But too few people have examined the possibility that this situation points not to lack of interest in symphonic music in Chicago, but a natural cycle that's happening during the tenure of music director Daniel Barenboim. Often when an orchestra hits a particularly high peak with a particular music director, as the CSO did with Sir Georg Solti, the successor often suffers in comparison and must preside over a period of downturn. Though some observers claim that Barenboim has an ever-deepening chemistry with the Chicagoans, my personal encounters with his work suggest that he's inconsistent: transcendent one day, uninvolved the next. The CSO principal guest conductor Pierre Boulez has a highly devoted following, but programs skewed toward 20th-century repertoire assure that at least some tickets will be available at concert time. The point is that the Chicago Symphony is a law unto itself. The bigger point is that they all are. In fact, the qualities of symphony and opera organizations that threaten them with extinction simultaneously maintain their continuity. Yes, these establishments are impractically expensive, requiring huge payrolls for events whose expenses will never be covered by the most heated box office activity. Yet this very impracticality delivers a unique concert experience that — unlike Seinfeld reruns or even Live from Lincoln Center broadcasts — happens only in a particular city at a particular moment, running refreshingly counter to the mass media and mass production that are so pervasive in modern life. How could that quality not be incredibly precious in a world that looks increasingly similar, in which downtown Houston can be mistaken for downtown Minneapolis? That's also why the one-of-a-kind quality of any given orchestra or opera company can galvanize a sense of ownership — and, more importantly, local identity — more consistently than a sports team, since classical music's successes and failures are less tangible. The conventional wisdom is that almost all symphony orchestras sound alike these days, given the death of regional and national styles of playing since World War II. That observation, however true, only addresses the surface. Repertoire and artistic policies have, in fact, become more diverse. Is it any coincidence that a perpetual musical adventurer like Michael Tilson Thomas has found such a sympathetic home in freewheeling, forward-looking San Francisco? Or that Minneapolis, whose population is so dominated by Scandinavians, landed the hot Finnish conductor Osmo Vänskä? Unlike pre-war Germany, American municipalities don't administer the title of "General Music Director" for an entire city — but they might as well, considering how much conductors and impresarios set the tone for any given region's musical individuality, the success of which is often measured by fiscal health. Just for fun, consider what would happen if two cities traded opera companies. The Houston Grand Opera, under the leadership of David Gockley, has a remarkable record of commissioning and premiering new works by composers ranging from Leonard Bernstein and Michael Tippett to Carlisle Floyd and John Adams to Tod Machover and Meredith Monk — plus producing standard works like Wagner's Parsifal in an anything-but-standard staging by Robert Wilson. Opera Company of Philadelphia has, of late, enjoyed entire seasons sold out on subscription, thanks to general director Robert Driver's realization that his community isn't interested in the new and high-concept, preferring straightforward and well-sung productions of predominantly Italian repertoire (which shouldn't be any surprise given the city's ethnic profile). Switch cities and Philadelphia would be outraged, Houston bored. Thus, when an individual company is ailing, the first question isn't if the art form is dying, but if the company knows what aspects of the art form its public wants. Though symphonic music is far more abstract than opera, its less tangible variables can just as strongly determine success or failure. Though he's been hugely successful with the Houston Symphony Orchestra, Christoph Eschenbach is taking a considerable risk when he becomes Philadelphia Orchestra music director in 2003. His predecessors — Eugene Ormandy, Riccardo Muti and Wolfgang Sawallisch — gave the city straightforward, interpretively conservative readings of symphonic literature for the past six decades. Eschenbach, in contrast, represents a much more personal style of music making. Fortunately, there's a precedent for Eschenbach's potential success: the Baltimore Symphony's public has willingly embraced the brilliantly subjective Yuri Temirkanov after years of clean-cut interpretations under the equally brilliant David Zinman. The question too seldom asked amid the institutional failure facing the orchestras in St. Louis, Toronto and San Jose is how successfully the management has navigated its way through the local economy. No doubt lack of solid artistic leadership in recent years is a major reason why the Toronto Symphony is currently scrambling for survival. But shouldn't the management have anticipated this crisis years ago? The St. Louis Symphony hasn't even the excuse of an artistic void: Hans Vonk may not have the same kind of charisma as his predecessor Leonard Slatkin, but he can be a greatly interesting musician, and has maintained Slatkin's ensemble standards. Consider the example of the Pittsburgh Symphony. Though Lorin Maazel was a high-priced maestro who failed to take the ensemble to hoped-for artistic heights, managing director Gideon Toeplitz amassed such a huge endowment ($133 million at its peak) that the orchestra could wait for Mariss Jansons to clear his schedule. Accurate generalizations — anywhere in the performing arts — never come easily. Jane Alexander's parting flourish from the National Endowment was a hefty report titled American Canvas, which aspired to be a comprehensive overview of American arts. It presented such a multi-faceted view, from which so many themes and sub-themes could be drawn, that no two news reports on the study were remotely alike. The New York Times, in a front page story, took the usual gloomy conclusion, when in fact, just the opposite was happening, as many organizations were rolling in money in preparation for high-priced renovations of auditoriums and opera houses. Indicators can be so numerous and so open-ended that "connecting the dots" can go in almost any direction. Even amidst smart, well-meaning attempts at analysis, specious conclusions are inevitable. Yes, there are indisputable tragedies out there — the demise of the San Jose Symphony, for example. But maybe it had to die so that the San Francisco Symphony could remain strong. Maybe something better will come in its place. The publicity these deaths receive is important, because these are highly public institutions. At times, such reports can seem like the umpteenth farewell tour by a beloved opera diva. But they keep the public from taking great music for granted. The St. Louis and Toronto Symphonies should never ever have been allowed to come as close to the brink as they did. But there they are, and though not out of the woods yet, rescue plans, however painful, are being constructed. Those orchestras will survive, because the public, more unconsciously than consciously, knows that when its opera company and symphony orchestra go away, the only thing left in many cities will be congested strip roads, plastic burger signs, abandoned bowling alleys and cable TV. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:50:02 -0500 From: sabutin To: bmroberts@iquest.net Cc: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Bass Trombone/Tenor Trombone Doubling Advice Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hello All, I am asking for any advice any one would like to share on doubling between tenor/bass. I am primarily a tenor player but was forced in the college wind ensemble I am in to play bass trombone. I realize that it can help me as a player. I just am having some real issues right now with it from a physical and mental standpoint. Any assistance would be great. Just for some background info I play a Shires tenor with an Elliot g cup with a 102 rim on my tenor and a Getzen 1062 with an Elliot K and a 106 rim. Please email me privately as well as post to list. Thanks Bart Roberts ================= Bart... Too bad I didn't get this earlier...I was In Indianapolis almost all last week playiong gigs + doinf clinics, and I actually picked up a little job w/the Indianapolis trumpet player Mark Buselli Friday night playing old time jazz for a French Club Mardi Gras party at Ball State. We could have talked on the breaks. Anyway...not much to add to Gary's post, except to say get a mainstream m'pce; practice both horns every day playing the same exercises + etudes (in the same ranges wherever possible), and be prepared to pay some dues before you come out of the tunnel. Good luyck...I've learned a great deal from my experiences as a bass trombonist, and I hope you do too. S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:49:52 -0600 From: briar@chicagonet.net To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mahler 3 Message-ID: <200202141749.g1EHnqI03530@www.webkingdoms.com> Howard Smith wrote: > You have all mentioned one of my favourites. The LSO recording > features Denis Wick conducted by Jascha Horenstein. (Art mentioned > Colin Davis with this combination. I would check out his Berlioz > cycles: one from the 60s - very well liked and another from the last > 2 or 3 years.) I also like both Bernstein's with the NYPO (Herman and > Alessi) and recently purchased two others: The Hall under Sir John > Barbirolli (I think the trombone soloist must be Maisie Ringham, not > absolutely sure though. The booklet doesn't say.) and Simon Rattle > conducting the CBSO (Philip Harrison). All great but very different. > The Rattle has some interesting idiosyncrasies in places. I > would like to hear the Philharmonia under Sinopoli (with, I think, > Dudley Bright, now with the LSO, on trombone. He is an amazing > player.) At present it is only available in a reissue of the whole > cycle. I was for a short time somewhat obsessed with hearing different versions of this symphony, though more for the finale than the trb. solo. I've kinda gotten over it by now. On UseNet at alt.music.recordings.classical (I think ...), if one asks about versions of a particular work, it's normal for every possible recorded version of a work to be mentioned by someone. So far, only a few Mahler 3's have been omitted: Concergebouw/Haitink, VPO/Abbado, for instance. Maazel has one, too. The Levine/CSO version from 1973 is my favorite, probably owing to the fact that it's the first one I really delved into deeply. The later NYP/Bernstein version is quite good, especially the trb solo, but is also distorted in ways that bother me. There's a surprisingly good version with the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra/Leif Segerstam, if I remember correctly. Everybody has a favorite, and there's a lot from which to choose. It's impossible to establish one definitive version, even if that were a worthy goal. Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2300--