TROMBONE-L Digest 2286

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) medical pitch question
	by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL
  2) Re: All Trombone Radio revisited
	by "Tom C. Shaddox" <Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com>
  3) bach 22 mouthpiece
	by Dan Thorpe <wactrm@yahoo.com>
  4) Re: bach 22 mouthpiece
	by "Matthew Stoecker" <The_Mighty_Quinn@msn.com>
  5) <no subject>
	by Nancy Vogt <Nancy.Vogt@uni.edu>
  6) RE: Bach 22
	by TboneGib@aol.com
  7) Re: All Trombone Radio revisited
	by "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
  8) Re: medical pitch question
	by "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
  9) RE: All Trombone Radio revisited
	by "James W. Yardley" <yardlejw@uwec.edu>
 10) RE: To use or not to use alternate valves/slide positions
	by Douglas Yeo <yeo@yeodoug.com>
 11) RE: medical pitch question
	by "Wessner, John" <jwessner@towson.edu>
 12) RE: medical pitch question
	by "Jeffrey Albert" <jalbert@bellsouth.net>
 13) RE: medical pitch question
	by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston"
	 <Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL>
 14) RE: medical pitch question
	by "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" <cnowicke@indiana.edu>
 15) RE: medical pitch question
	by Earl Needham <needhame@yucca.net>
 16) College and HS Orchestrations
	by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com
 17) Re: Whole horn kicker
	by "Joe L. Norcross" <joetuba@lightspeed.net>
 18) Re: medical pitch question
	by "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
 19) more elliot parts...cheap
	by "Charles Levine" <chardy@totcon.com>
 20) Serpent spotting
	by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= <Marius.Helga@nb.no>
 21) RE: medical pitch question
	by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL
 22) Re: Serpent spotting
	by Douglas Yeo <yeo@yeodoug.com>
 23) NYT: Black Musician, Beaten by Spanish Police, to Miss Concert
	by "Dale J. Cruse" <dale@dalecruse.com>
 24) RE: To use or not to use alternate valves/slide positions
	by Steve Gamble <sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org>
 25) Phil Teele's book
	by Barry Green <rbarrygreen@home.com>
 26) Re:Phil Teele's Bass Trombone Book
	by "Denver D. Seifried" <ddsbstrb@voyager.net>
 27) RE: Phil Teele's book
	by "Tom G Tyson" <tgtyson@earthlink.net>
 28) Trombone and percussion piece
	by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu>
 29) Mahler 3 - NY Philharmonic
	by Peter_Eiden@Prenhall.com

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:25:22 -0500
From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F7FE@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1A9BB.7A9B4860"

At a doctor's appointment this week I noticed his tuning fork (one of those medical ones with big disks on the ends of the tines) was labeled C = 256.Ê

By my calculations that would be A = 431.  Unless I've screwed up.  But I don't think so.Ê

Does anyone know why MD's would use such a low pitch standard?  He had a second one marked C = 128, at least they are consistent.Ê


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:43:36 -0600
From: "Tom C. Shaddox" <Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com>
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: All Trombone Radio revisited
Message-ID: <3C583ED8.97F2D4B9@fnc.fujitsu.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Irrepressible Adrian wrote:
>Even tho' trombone is the horn of my choice (playing wise), I think I
would
>be bored to tears in a very short time listening to 24 hour trombone
radio.

Adrian, don't you think your interest would be piqued if you saw in the
ATR play log that three times this week they were going to broadcast a
trombone choir recital which included "Rock Slide*" and "Seventh
Heaven*"?

Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor

*Original trombone works available from:
http://www.adios.co.uk/trom.htm


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:59:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Thorpe <wactrm@yahoo.com>
To: Trombone list <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: bach 22 mouthpiece
Message-ID: <20020130185933.40934.qmail@web10501.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Has anyome ever heard of a bach 22 mouthpiece. In our
rehearsal room here at school there is one and I a was
wondering if it would be worth it to pick it up. It is
for a small bore and the rim is so round.

=====
Dan Thorpe
1rst Trombonist at Cardianl Stritch University and Music Educator
Trmbman@aol.com        Wactrm@yahoo.com
http://talk.to/DanThorpe

__________________________________________________
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Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:28:28 -0800
From: "Matthew Stoecker" <The_Mighty_Quinn@msn.com>
To: <wactrm@yahoo.com>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: bach 22 mouthpiece
Message-ID: <OE92PUprhup7IpGwC6R0000e2d3@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A981.3CFD40B0"

I believe the 22D was designed for bass trumpet, according to some old Bach literature, or "for the player who likes to cut through the others". I have one that I use for bass trumpet. DefinitelyÊdoes something to theÊsound...
 
Matthew Stoecker
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Thorpe
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:06 AM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: bach 22 mouthpiece
 
Has anyome ever heard of a bach 22 mouthpiece. In our
rehearsal room here at school there is one and I a was
wondering if it would be worth it to pick it up. It is
for a small bore and the rim is so round.

=====
Dan Thorpe
1rst Trombonist at Cardianl Stritch University and Music Educator
Trmbman@aol.com        Wactrm@yahoo.com
http://talk.to/DanThorpe

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:47:30 -0600
From: Nancy Vogt <Nancy.Vogt@uni.edu>
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.EDU
Subject: <no subject>
Message-ID: <B87DC612.395%Nancy.Vogt@uni.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

One of my seniors is looking for a good piece for trombone and percussion
for his recital next fall. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Nancy Vogt
Univ. of Northern Iowa


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:49:49 EST
From: TboneGib@aol.com
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: RE: Bach 22
Message-ID: <fd.12fd5bcc.2989c47d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_fd.12fd5bcc.2989c47d_boundary"

The standard 22's are very good alto bone mp's,too. I'm looking right now at a 22SC. Unbelievably fat, round rim.

Tom Gibson
Brass Dept. Coordinator
<http://music.gsu.edu>Georgia State University
<mailto:tbonegib@aol.com>tbonegib@aol.com
ph: (404) 651-1740
<http://www.trombonelessons.com>trombonelessons.com

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:50:54 -0000
From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
To: <Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: All Trombone Radio revisited
Message-ID: <015201c1a9d9$6b2c3060$507b68d5@homedmpbgvaomg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


From: "Tom C. Shaddox" <Tom.Shaddox@fnc.fujitsu.com>

> Adrian, don't you think your interest would be piqued if you saw in the
> ATR play log that three times this week they were going to broadcast a
> trombone choir recital which included "Rock Slide*" and "Seventh
> Heaven*"?

Oh sure Tom, and "Air on a G String", "Mr. Nice Guy" and others.  When do I
start to collect?

Cheers, Adrian




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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:59:03 -0000
From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
To: <richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <015301c1a9d9$6ede14d0$507b68d5@homedmpbgvaomg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014D_01C1A9D9.5458FD00"

 

From: <mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL

At a doctor's appointment this week I noticed his tuning fork (one of those medical ones with big disks on the ends of the tines) was labeled C = 256.Ê

By my calculations that would be A = 431.  Unless I've screwed up.  But I don't think so.Ê

Does anyone know why MD's would use such a low pitch standard?  He had a second one marked C = 128, at least they are consistent.Ê

 

Maybe that's just a convenient number to use, being a power of 2, you can keepÊhalving or doubling it forÊthe octaves.  This has reminded me, and I just looked it up to make sure, in Russel Garcia's book "The Professional Arranger Composer", on page 42, ex.114, he shows C as sounding at 256 and 512.

Adrian

 


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:13:04 -0800
From: "James W. Yardley" <yardlejw@uwec.edu>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: All Trombone Radio revisited
Message-ID: <LIEFJGKOBONDGNBJANMMOEABCEAA.yardlejw@uwec.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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List,

	I did some looking around on the internet to learn a little more about the
restrictions of webcasting a trombone related radio station.
http://riaa.org/Licensing-Licen-3a.cfm has lots of information on this type
of thing.  I'm still trying to translate it all into english.  Just thought
there might be some people interested.

Take care,
James Yardley



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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:31:54 -0500
From: Douglas Yeo <yeo@yeodoug.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: To use or not to use alternate valves/slide positions
Message-ID: <v04210106b87e23e27dc0@[146.115.67.16]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"


This is a thread which comes up now and then.  There are those who advocate never using the valve unless absolutely necessary and others, like Alan Raph (in his method) who advocate using it for every note on the horn.

Personally, I think Craig Parmerlee said a simple but very sensible thing which  just about sums up the whole thread:


I'd like to make a distinction between the "navigation tricks and special needs" use of the trigger and the "everyday use".

Right.  Try, experiment, and use.  There is no "rule."

The last time this thread came up was about a year ago; here's what I wrote then:

=====

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:41:16 -0500
Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
From: Douglas Yeo <yeo@yeodoug.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Use of F-Attachment


At 7:54 PM -0600 12/11/00, Jeff Albert commented:


I too rarely use the F attachment above C in the staff.  However I saw Alain
Trudel in Recital at U of S. Miss. a few weeks ago, and noticed that he
seemed to regularly play middle C in T1, when it fell between a Bb and D.
Sounded fine when he did it, but it hasn't entered my arsenal yet.

Alan Raph takes this to quite an extreme in his bass trombone method (pub. Carl Fischer) whereby he recommends playing just about any possible note in any register with the valve, and indicates positions for such in his exercises - the point being you should know what you can play where.  Of course, this often violates the "does it sound good?" rule, but it should also be said that when looking for a solution for a playing problem, try EVERYTHING - not just the logical choices.

For instance, at the end of the Schubert Unfinished Symphony, there is a little chorale for 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons and bass trombone. Marked ppp.  Very touchy, only four notes:

middle A flat --> F --> E flat --> middle A flat

Four notes, no more than a fourth apart.  You can see the problem. Starting on A flat is fine, as is the slur down to the F and further down to the E flat.  But, when you try to slur from E flat up to A flat at that soft a dynamic (with dim.) the slur can get "stuck" and bump a bit, or even not speak.  Using tongue doesn't really help the problem at that dynamic. Try it, you'll see what I mean.  BUT, if you play the last A flat in 2nd position with the F attachment, you have a little bit of resistance to blow against (both because you're using the valve AND you're moving in on the slide) and the A flat comes out very softly and very nicely.  I use it all the time and it works great.  That lick has been the undoing of many a bass trombonist (Edward Kleinhammer used to call that passage "bass trombonist's Bolero" because it's so touchy) so I'm glad to have found a very easy solution to something which in performance can be a little dicey. Try it!

-Doug Yeo

                  **********************************************
                  *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                  * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                  * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                  *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                  *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                  *                    <><                     *
                  **********************************************


                  **********************************************
                  *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                  * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                  * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                  *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                  *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                  *                    <><                     *
                  **********************************************
                                       


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:50:01 -0500
From: "Wessner, John" <jwessner@towson.edu>
To: <richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <A091025FC707AB4C89FADBB24219D75C2F8A1C@exchange3.towson.edu>
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1A9E0.73519DE7"

MostÊphysics teaching labs have tuning forks based on Cs as powers of two.  At one point (ten or fifteen years ago) a student gave me a document by someone who occasionally ran for president (and whose name escapes me now) on why that format was consonant with the universe.  It makes sense in some respects, but it's not how the choices were made.  Of course the second is also arbitrary, so twoness isn't exactly God-given.  I'm pretty sure the octave is, though.
 
Only the revolutionary French had the opportunity to redefine things rationally - and they didn't.
jw

-----Original Message-----
From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL [mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:25 PM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: medical pitch question

At a doctor's appointment this week I noticed his tuning fork (one of those medical ones with big disks on the ends of the tines) was labeled C = 256.Ê

By my calculations that would be A = 431.  Unless I've screwed up.  But I don't think so.Ê

Does anyone know why MD's would use such a low pitch standard?  He had a second one marked C = 128, at least they are consistent.Ê


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:57:19 -0600
From: "Jeffrey Albert" <jalbert@bellsouth.net>
To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>,
   <richardt@lee.army.mil>
Subject: RE: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <007901c1a9e1$789745c0$b0239d42@user>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01C1A9AF.2DFCD5C0"

Tim,

 

What formula did you use to calculate if C=256 then A=431?

 

Jeff Albert

 

www.jeffalbert.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:59 PM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: Re: medical pitch question

 

 

From: <mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL

 

At a doctor's appointment this week I noticed his tuning fork (one of those medical ones with big disks on the ends of the tines) was labeled C = 256.Ê

By my calculations that would be A = 431.  Unless I've screwed up.  But I don't think so.Ê

Does anyone know why MD's would use such a low pitch standard?  He had a second one marked C = 128, at least they are consistent.Ê

 

Maybe that's just a convenient number to use, being a power of 2, you can keepÊhalving or doubling it forÊthe octaves.  This has reminded me, and I just looked it up to make sure, in Russel Garcia's book "The Professional Arranger Composer", on page 42, ex.114, he shows C as sounding at 256 and 512.

Adrian

 


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:31:21 -0600
From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston"
	 <Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL>
To: "'richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL'" <richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FD05E@dasmthkhn561.amedd.army.mil>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1A9E6.3956DA10"

I have sent off inquiries to old knowledgeable wizards of the history of medicine to see what comes back, I will keep you informed.  For those interested in modern piano tuning (the numbers)  check out

<http://www.pianoworld.com/pitch.htm>http://www.pianoworld.com/pitch.htm

Rick Marple
San Antonio TX


-----Original Message-----
From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL [<mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:25 PM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: medical pitch question


At a doctor's appointment this week I noticed his tuning fork (one of those medical ones with big disks on the ends of the tines) was labeled C = 256.Ê

By my calculations that would be A = 431.  Unless I've screwed up.  But I don't think so.Ê
Does anyone know why MD's would use such a low pitch standard?  He had a second one marked C = 128, at least they are consistent.Ê


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:04:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science" <cnowicke@indiana.edu>
To: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" <Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL>
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020130194215.28953E-100000@kate.ucs.indiana.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston wrote:

> I have sent off inquiries to old knowledgeable wizards of the history of
> medicine to see what comes back, I will keep you informed.  For those
> interested in modern piano tuning (the numbers)  check out
 
I asked my beloved section partner Phil (harpischord tuner), who said that
those pitches come from an old pipe organ pitch standard. 

Now I'm imagining the tuning fork factory setting up for runs of forks for
different applications...


Carole Nowicke 
cnowicke@indiana.edu






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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:26:22 -0700
From: Earl Needham <needhame@yucca.net>
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: RE: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020130182536.00b1add8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 08:04 PM 1/30/2002 -0500, Dr. Carole Nowicke, Applied Health Science wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston wrote:

> I have sent off inquiries to old knowledgeable wizards of the history of
> medicine to see what comes back, I will keep you informed.  For those
> interested in modern piano tuning (the numbers)  check out

I asked my beloved section partner Phil (harpischord tuner), who said that
those pitches come from an old pipe organ pitch standard.

Now I'm imagining the tuning fork factory setting up for runs of forks for
different applications...

        I'm thinking more along the lines of the factory making "blanks" that are too long, and they cut them down for whatever frequency they need.  Just a guess...

        Earl


*********************************************************
Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net
Clovis, New Mexico
KD5XB-2>APU24L,WA5IHL-11,K5BEN-15,WA5IHL-7,W5SF-1,K5CQH-15,WB5EKP-1*,TRACE7- 1:=3425.84N/10313.56W-[DM84]
Pet peeve #1: You look at a "SITE" with your "SIGHT".
Pet peeve #2: "Congratulations" does NOT have a "d" in it.
Old pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list, then repeatedly sending "unsubscribe" or "remove" as one-word messages to the list.



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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:41:03 EST
From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: College and HS Orchestrations
Message-ID: <50.5c67fa0.2989faaf@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_50.5c67fa0.2989faaf_boundary"


 
 
 A friend was told about a music store in NYC that provides orchestrations 
for 
 College and HS bands and carries an inventory of unusual arrangements not 
 performed often.
 
 Need snail mail of those places that are in the knowledge of list members 
 including the snail mail address of Pepper Music.
 
 please reply off list.
 
 
 beldon wade
 
 
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:24:49 EST
Subject: Snail Mail Addresses
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A friend was told about a music store in NYC that provides orchestrations for 
College and HS bands and carries an inventory of unusual arrangements not 
performed often.

Need snail mail of those places that are in the knowledge of list members 
including the snail mail address of Pepper Music.

please reply off list.


beldon wade

----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:49:06 -0800
From: "Joe L. Norcross" <joetuba@lightspeed.net>
To: <craig@acticalc.com>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Whole horn kicker
Message-ID: <000101c1aa09$e60fb060$99deaec7@computer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I am glad it worked for you. I still have no problem with my euph, Eb and
BBb 3+1 compensators.  I can hit low b or d with out a lot of slide pulling.
I think you will find the length of a kicker on a BBb at 7 inches or so
really is trouble, it may be manageable on a euph.

Joe L. Norcross
Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds
Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band
Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band
joetuba@lightspeed.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Parmerlee" <craig@acticalc.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:57 AM
Subject: Whole horn kicker


> A few months ago there was a thread that discussed the idea of a
whole-horn
> kicker slide as an alternative to the costly, heavy, muffling compensation
> systems on pro line euphoniums.  I made the argument that a whole horn
> kicker should be superior in every respect.  In particular, compensation
> systems only benefit a few notes, leaving most of the intonation problems
> uncorrected.
>
> Another point of view was expressed that it wasn't practical to build a
> kicker large enough to do the job.  Well, in the past few weeks, I've put
> my money where my mouth is.  I have built just such an instrument and have
> learned that it is absolutely practical.  SNIP



----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:27:11 -0000
From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
To: <jalbert@bellsouth.net>,
   "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <004901c1aa39$a4d8e460$7a81fc3e@homedmpbgvaomg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1AA39.760E48F0"

 

From: <mailto:jalbert@bellsouth.net>Jeffrey Albert

What formula did you use to calculate if C=256 then A=431?Ê

 
 
A = 256*2^(9/12) = 430.539
 
The above formula is based on the fact that if you multiply the cps (hertz) of any pitch by theÊ12th root of 2, you willÊarrive atÊthe cps of the pitch a semitone above (in Equal Temperament).  If you do the same calculationÊ12 times you reach the octave.  This particular A is 9 semitones above C=256.
 
QED.
 
The same formula can be used to calculate the tube length required to produce that note, only in reverse (divide instead of multiply).  eg. If you have an 8' trombone in C and you want to cut it down to be a Soprano in A, it would need to be 8/2^(9/12) feet long.
 
I just tried it with my trombone, now I can't play the bloody thing.  Anyone know how toÊstick the two bitsÊtogether again? 
 
Adrian.

----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:51:34 -0600
From: "Charles Levine" <chardy@totcon.com>
To: "tlist" <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: more elliot parts...cheap
Message-ID: <002101c1aa3c$e0704ba0$a2b01ad1@D7493111>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1AA0A.93D306C0"

K cup (new)
 
K4 (tenor bone) shank  (new)
 
K9c shank (like new)
 
$15 each or all three for $28  ppd

----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:47:39 +0100
From: Marius HelgΠ<Marius.Helga@nb.no>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Serpent spotting
Message-ID: <1C5C11BC642AD41199DA00508BA5451F011E364A@victoria.nb.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I suddenly spotteda line of Serpentists on MTV!

In The Avalanches' music video "Frontier Psychiatrist", there is a line of
men standing in the back, playing serpents, but as far as I can hear, they
have been overdubbed by trumpets in the actual recording.

But still, it's funny to see such a rare instrument on MTV.

Marius HelgŒ
Bass Trombone
Mo i Rana

Obl. Trombone content: Tomorrow (hopefully) I'll receive a new slide from
the Holton factory after the one I currently don't use broke due to
corrosion on the inner tube.


----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:48:09 -0500
From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL
To: jalbert@bellsouth.net, trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: RE: medical pitch question
Message-ID: <81F62454EA21B94EA95517180D7303730243F804@lee-is-102.lee.army.mil>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1AA55.894950B0"

Equal temperament means you divide up the octave into 12 equal parts.  Since the octave means you multiply by two, so A = 220, A = 440, etc, the way to divide it into equal parts is multiply by two raised to the n/12 power where n = the degree of the scale.Ê
 
A = 220.
A * 2 ^(3/12) = C 261.6256.Ê
 
Or in reverse,
If A * 2^(3/12) = C, then C / 2^(3/12) = A
 
C 256/2^(3/12) = A 430.539
 
Check our math.  A * 2^(0/12) = A*1.  220, 220
 ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ   A * 2^(12/12) = A*2, 220, 440

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Albert [mailto:jalbert@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:57 PM
To: 'Trombones and related issues forum.'; richardt@lee.army.mil
Subject: RE: medical pitch question

Tim,

 

What formula did you use to calculate if C=256 then A=431?

 

Jeff Albert

 

www.jeffalbert.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@po.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Drover
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:59 PM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: Re: medical pitch question

 

 

From: <mailto:richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL>richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL

 

At a doctor's appointment this week I noticed his tuning fork (one of those medical ones with big disks on the ends of the tines) was labeled C = 256.Ê

By my calculations that would be A = 431.  Unless I've screwed up.  But I don't think so.Ê

Does anyone know why MD's would use such a low pitch standard?  He had a second one marked C = 128, at least they are consistent.Ê

 

Maybe that's just a convenient number to use, being a power of 2, you can keepÊhalving or doubling it forÊthe octaves.  This has reminded me, and I just looked it up to make sure, in Russel Garcia's book "The Professional Arranger Composer", on page 42, ex.114, he shows C as sounding at 256 and 512.

Adrian

 


----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:18:53 -0500
From: Douglas Yeo <yeo@yeodoug.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Serpent spotting
Message-ID: <v04210105b87ef3e2d53e@[146.115.67.16]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Life is full of surprises!


At 1:47 PM +0100 1/31/02, Marius HelgΠwrote:

I suddenly spotteda line of Serpentists on MTV!

In The Avalanches' music video "Frontier Psychiatrist", there is a line of
men standing in the back, playing serpents, but as far as I can hear, they
have been overdubbed by trumpets in the actual recording.


I'll have to check with the serpent player's union and see who played in this.  I don't recall ever watching MTV - that I knew it! - but I may watch for this.

You can also see a serpent in my Super Bowl Diary - there's a photo of me playing my contrabass "anaconda" serpent (it is wearing my Patriots AFC Champion hat).

Another surprise was having the Boston Globe mention my Diary in Tuesday's paper, that certainly increased the hits to my site!  All good fun, and I'm updating it daily.  Yesterday's entry had several photos of our BSO trombone section.  You can read it at http://www.yeodoug.com/pops_patriots.html

-Doug Yeo

                 **********************************************
                 *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                 * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                 * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                 *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                 *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                 *                    <><                     *
                 **********************************************
                                      


----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:37:40 -0500
From: "Dale J. Cruse" <dale@dalecruse.com>
To: <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: NYT: Black Musician, Beaten by Spanish Police, to Miss Concert
Message-ID: <02f201c1aa5c$749c7b90$70d92444@union1.nj.home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02EF_01C1AA32.8B619740"

No trombone content, but a music story that should have widespread interest....

Black Musician, Beaten by Spanish Police, to Miss Concert

By JESSE McKINLEY

New York Times
 
In a case that has raised concerns over racial profiling in Spain, the principal trumpet player for the Barcelona Symphony Orchestra was beaten so badly by police in Barcelona two weeks ago that he will be unable to appear with the ensemble in its performance at Carnegie Hall tomorrow night.

The musician, Rodney Mack, an African-American who is featured on posters promoting the orchestra in Barcelona and who is the cousin of the trumpeter Wynton Marsalis, was attacked by four police officers; they mistook him for a car thief who had been described as a black man of roughly Mr. Mack's height.

Mr. Mack, 34, had just finished a rehearsal on the evening of Jan. 15 when he was approached in an underground garage in central Barcelona by the undercover officers, who were wearing jeans and leather jackets .

"I was walking towards my car when I noticed someone coming towards me," Mr. Mack said in a telephone interview yesterday. "It seemed suspicious because they weren't saying anything."

Moments later, he said, the men grabbed his arms and slammed him to the ground, pressing his face into the concrete. The men began to beat him on the back and legs, and attempted to force something into his mouth, he said. Throughout, Mr. Mack, who was dressed in a suit and a tie and was walking toward his rented Mercedes, said he believed he was being mugged, and was shouting: "Take my wallet! Take my wallet!" in Spanish and English.

A Spanish police official in Barcelona, while admitting that there had been "a misunderstanding," said that one of the officers had identified himself but had his badge knocked away by Mr. Mack. The official, who refused to be identified by name, said that the officers believed Mr. Mack fit the "characteristics" of a car thief who had been operating in the garage, meaning "the color of his skin and his height."

As a result of the attack, Mr. Mack was treated at a hospital for bruises and cuts to his back, buttocks and calves, as well as for a neck injury and a cut to the inner lip, an injury of special concern for a trumpet player.

The Spanish police official said those injuries were a result of the "violent resistance" Mr. Mack put up to arrest. The official also said one officer had been treated for a broken rib. The Spanish government has promised an investigation of the police behavior, but the men involved remain on full duty, although the stakeouts for the car thief have been suspended.

Disputing the police, Mr. Mack said the men did not identify themselves as police officers until after they had handcuffed him. "They weren't saying anything," he said. "I think that that's when I got really scared, because I thought, `These guys are just trying to hurt me.' "

After restraining him, he said, they told him that they were looking for "un hombre de color," or "a black man," who was stealing cars.

"I asked them, `What type of hair, what color of skin ÷ dark, light, what?' " Mr. Mack said. "They didn't know what I was talking about."

Although he said he showed identification, as well as his trumpets in his car, the police charged Mr. Mack with resisting arrest and attacking a police officer.

After a perfunctory visit to a local hospital, he said, he was taken to police headquarters where, after questioning, he was released some five hours after the incident occurred and returned to the hospital.

The attack has received widespread coverage in the Spanish media, with stories in major national newspapers like El Pa’s and El Mundo. There has also been governmental reaction: on Jan. 18, El Pa’s reported, Pio Cabanillas, a spokesman for the Spanish government, said that the nation's Council of Ministers would open an investigation into the incident. And last week Carles Campuzano, a member of the national parliament, said he would bring up the matter with Spain's interior minister.

Mr. Mack recently returned to the United States to recuperate. Before leaving Barcelona, however, he consulted with the local United States Consulate, which he said was preparing to bring its concerns to the Spanish government.

Since the attack Mr. Mack has had trouble holding his trumpet, breathing deeply and sleeping, he said. In addition to the symphony's tour, he also had to cancel a planned tour with his wife, Karen Walwyn, a pianist.

He plans to sue the police for assault and wrongful arrest, he said.

"The reason I'm going to press charges is that it seemed they wanted me just to take the beating and then go home," Mr. Mack said. "I just want to prevent that from happening to someone else."

<http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/31/arts/music/31TRUM.html>http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/31/arts/music/31TRUM.htmlÊ(requires registration)

Dale J. Cruse
<mailto:dale@dalecruse.com>dale@dalecruse.com
<http://www.dalecruse.com>http://www.dalecruse.com


----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:33:31 -0700
From: Steve Gamble <sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: To use or not to use alternate valves/slide positions
Message-ID: <01C1A9A3.7A7C1480.sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Also, on that Schubert lick, try playing the F and Eb with the valve and then open for the second Ab.  For me, the sound isbetter that way.

Steve Gamble
Librarian
Tucson Symphony Orchestra
2175 N. 6th Ave.
Tucson, AZ  85705
(520) 792-9155 x118
(520) 792-9314 fax
sgamble@tucsonsymphony.org 


-----Original Message-----
From:	Douglas Yeo [SMTP:yeo@yeodoug.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:32 PM
To:	Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject:	RE: To use or not to use alternate valves/slide positions


This is a thread which comes up now and then.  There are those who 
advocate never using the valve unless absolutely necessary and 
others, like Alan Raph (in his method) who advocate using it for 
every note on the horn.

Personally, I think Craig Parmerlee said a simple but very sensible 
thing which  just about sums up the whole thread:

>
>I'd like to make a distinction between the "navigation tricks and 
>special needs" use of the trigger and the "everyday use".

Right.  Try, experiment, and use.  There is no "rule."

The last time this thread came up was about a year ago; here's what I 
wrote then:

=====

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:41:16 -0500
Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
From: Douglas Yeo <yeo@yeodoug.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Use of F-Attachment


At 7:54 PM -0600 12/11/00, Jeff Albert commented:

>
>I too rarely use the F attachment above C in the staff.  However I saw Alain
>Trudel in Recital at U of S. Miss. a few weeks ago, and noticed that he
>seemed to regularly play middle C in T1, when it fell between a Bb and D.
>Sounded fine when he did it, but it hasn't entered my arsenal yet.

Alan Raph takes this to quite an extreme in his bass trombone method 
(pub. Carl Fischer) whereby he recommends playing just about any 
possible note in any register with the valve, and indicates positions 
for such in his exercises - the point being you should know what you 
can play where.  Of course, this often violates the "does it sound 
good?" rule, but it should also be said that when looking for a 
solution for a playing problem, try EVERYTHING - not just the logical 
choices.

For instance, at the end of the Schubert Unfinished Symphony, there 
is a little chorale for 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons and bass trombone. 
Marked ppp.  Very touchy, only four notes:

middle A flat --> F --> E flat --> middle A flat

Four notes, no more than a fourth apart.  You can see the problem. 
Starting on A flat is fine, as is the slur down to the F and further 
down to the E flat.  But, when you try to slur from E flat up to A 
flat at that soft a dynamic (with dim.) the slur can get "stuck" and 
bump a bit, or even not speak.  Using tongue doesn't really help the 
problem at that dynamic. Try it, you'll see what I mean.  BUT, if you 
play the last A flat in 2nd position with the F attachment, you have 
a little bit of resistance to blow against (both because you're using 
the valve AND you're moving in on the slide) and the A flat comes out 
very softly and very nicely.  I use it all the time and it works 
great.  That lick has been the undoing of many a bass trombonist 
(Edward Kleinhammer used to call that passage "bass trombonist's 
Bolero" because it's so touchy) so I'm glad to have found a very easy 
solution to something which in performance can be a little dicey. 
Try it!

-Doug Yeo

                   **********************************************
                   *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                   * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                   * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                   *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                   *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                   *                    <><                     *
                   **********************************************
 

                   **********************************************
                   *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                   * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                   * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                   *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                   *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                   *                    <><                     *
                   **********************************************
                                        


----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:36:04 -0600
From: Barry Green <rbarrygreen@home.com>
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: Phil Teele's book
Message-ID: <DACA1037-1657-11D6-9FF1-0003934114D8@home.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v472)
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I know this has come up countless times but I'd like to know where to get Phil Teeles'
long tone book.
Thanks,
Barry Green



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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:50:52 -0500
From: "Denver D. Seifried" <ddsbstrb@voyager.net>
To: "Trombone - List" <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re:Phil Teele's Bass Trombone Book
Message-ID: <000701c1aa66$ae83e4b0$566b5acf@dseifried>
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Barry,
I purchased mine direct from list member Steve Ferguson's Online Trombone
Music Store at www.steveferguson.net.  Steve was instrumental in getting
this book into print.

You might also check with list member Chuck DePolo at Hickey Music, which is
www.hickeys.com.

Denny Seifried
Bass Trombone-Springfield (OH) Symphony & Dayton Jazz Orchestra
Adjunct Trombone-Wittenberg Univ. Dept. of Music






----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:01:35 -0500
From: "Tom G Tyson" <tgtyson@earthlink.net>
To: <rbarrygreen@home.com>,
   "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Phil Teele's book
Message-ID: <002101c1aa68$2e20d970$5fddbfa8@DD943111>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
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Just got a copy from Steve Ferguson at
http://members.aol.com/sftrombone/Main.htm . Otherwise, you can e-mail
him at sftrombone@aol.com 

Interesting, but it takes dedication and patience.

Tom Tyson
Bass Trombone
Richmond Concert Band
European Wind Ensemble of Richmond, VA


-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Green
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: Phil Teele's book

I know this has come up countless times but I'd like to know where to 
get Phil Teeles'
long tone book.
Thanks,
Barry Green




----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2286
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:37:21 -0600
From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu>
To: "'trombone-l'" <trombone-l@po.missouri.edu>
Subject: Trombone and percussion piece
Message-ID: <47763CCCA27C4F4FA4BEF7DDB754A1E71249DB@marshall.jmls.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Nancy Vogt, who may be looking for a reply to a post without a subject
heading, inquired:

> One of my seniors is looking for a good piece for trombone and percussion
> for his recital next fall. Any suggestions?
> 
Miles Anderson recorded a nice piece several years ago. If memory serves, it
was something like Commedia by  Campo. (The same recording had a piece for
trombone and double bass. If the Campo is the bass piece, try Esque by
Kellaway. One of those titles is bound to be close!)
^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
David Guion, Cataloging Librarian
The John Marshall Law School
315 S. Plymouth Ct.
Chicago, IL   60604
Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552  Fax; (312) 427-8307
8guion@jmls.edu

Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors?

Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur.

^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^


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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:58:46 -0500
From: Peter_Eiden@Prenhall.com
To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu
Subject: Mahler 3 - NY Philharmonic
Message-ID: <437EF0D69ABED11198FE0060088D8F6108E7301C@oldtms008.schuster.com>
Content-return: allowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi all

Tonight at 8:00 EST, the NY Phil is doing a live national broadcast of
Mahler 3 from Avery Fisher Hall, Mariss Jansons is conducting, Joe Alessi
and Phil Smith have the trombone and post-horn solos.  The link below will
take you to the details, including the listing of radio stations carrying
it.

http://www.newyorkphilharmonic.org/events/eventDetail.cfm?eventNum=161

I went to the open rehearsal yesterday morning and it didn't disappoint (and
now I understand why there were so many microphones hanging from the ceiling
- including one pointed toward the back balcony, where Phil played the solos
from).

Pete Eiden




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