TROMBONE-L Digest 2277 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Extreme Thanks! by Gabriel Langfur 2) Violets by Keith Davis 3) Re: Extreme Thanks! by ALFORDMB@aol.com 4) Re: Customisation by "J L Jensen" 5) Re: George Roberts? by Earl Needham 6) Re: Customisation by "Rod Ellard" 7) Re: Online Privacy (re. E-mail Addresses) by Todd Jonz 8) RE: Alessi Masterclass; Rouse Concerto by "Harry Wootan" 9) Re: Customisation by "Hamish Dean" 10) Re: Customisation by Walter Barrett 11) Re: Joe Alessi: My Extreme Thanks! by Larry White 12) Shires for sale. by T2PHXS@aol.com 13) Re: George Roberts? by Earl Needham 14) Re: George Roberts? by "Paul Hill" 15) Rimsky Korsakov Concerto by Wilson Ong 16) Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement by Wayne Dyess 17) Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement by sabutin 18) Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement by Craig Parmerlee 19) Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement by Don Long ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:01:31 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Extreme Thanks! Message-ID: <20020121180131.76400.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- "Dale J. Cruse" wrote: > If a kid > like that wants to take > the time and effort to contact a professional player with > questions, praise, > whatever, don't we as professionals and keepers of the > trombone flame owe it to > that person to respond? If not, who will? Two stories: I teach at a youth orchestra camp with a wonderful guy named James Byars, who is an oboist with the NYC Ballet Orchestra. Every year at camp, James assigns every student he comes in teaching contact with - all his oboists and the members of the chamber groups he coaches - to write a letter to a musician, who plays their instrument, that they really admire. A real letter, on paper, mailed in an envelope with a stamp (it's really not that hard to find addresses to mail to - orchestra personnel offices, managers in Musical America, etc.). He encourages them to tell about themselves, both where they are now and their aspirations - musically or otherwise, and also what they admire about the person they are writing to. I think he tells them not to expect a response, but I think many of them probably get responses. Even without hearing back, though, it's a great exercise on a lot of levels. And another: A friend of mine, a marvelous tenor sax player, teaches in the NEC extension jazz department. He had a student who was about 12 or 13 years old and VERY talented - absolutely idolized Sonny Rollins and tried, quite successfully apparently, to sound just like him. The student, ON HIS OWN, wrote a letter to Sonny, and got a long letter in reply, with all kinds of advice - right down to the level of "brush your teeth regularly, because you'll regret it when you're older if you don't take care of them". Next time Sonny was in Boston, the kid went to hear him and met him backstage. It's been an incredible experience for everyone involved. So I guess we do owe it to young people to respond - but as wonderful as email is, particularly for a forum like this one, I'm not sure it's really a substitute for an old-fashioned letter. I think if a young student is serious enough to make contact with someone at the top of the profession, they should probably be encouraged to send a real letter - maybe that can spark an email correspondence, maybe just a letter in return - but it certainly indicates a little more effort. Hmmm. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:29:28 -0500 From: Keith Davis To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Violets Message-ID: <3C4C5E08.F0C3071C@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know if "Violets", by Jerry Van Rooysen, is in print somewhere? Its on the "Fond Memories of Frank Rosolino" CD. Beautiful piece for 'bone and orchestra ( --a transcription for bone and concert band would be nice.) Thanks, Keith Davis PS. My searching on sites like Hickey's has just come up with listings for the CD, not any scores. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:30:26 EST From: ALFORDMB@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Extreme Thanks! Message-ID: <4f.174631ec.297dc652@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems to me the critical point on the email/privacy issue is that the individual (the owner of the email name) should have the say whether or not to distribute his or hers, not someone else. Email I think is a little more personal or invasive than letter mail. It's sort of like getting an unlisted phone number. Cheers, Mike Alford ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:22:55 -0500 From: "J L Jensen" To: "Hamish Dean" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Customisation Message-ID: <002d01c1a2b1$07e2cde0$a7462c42@jljbone> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contact Todd Clontz in Baltimore..(Glenn Burnie, MD) Rosso Music. He does excellent work. John Jensen jljbone@erols.com http://www.dcjazz.com/johnjensen ----- Original Message ----- From: Hamish Dean To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:50 AM Subject: Customisation > Hi all, > > I'm thinking of converting a bulk standard bach 50B bass bone into a double > valve open wrap beast, Probably dependant configuration as I'm assuming that > would be cheaper. Any suggestions on the best place to get this type of > work done and a ballpark $$. Has anyone done this sort of customisation and > what are your experiences?? > > thanks in advance > > Hamish > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:39:10 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: George Roberts? Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020121123655.00b4ed28@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:55 PM 1/19/2002 -0700, Earl Needham wrote: I remember asking this some time ago, but I have lost the reply after multiple re-formats -- Is George Roberts still playing somewhere on weekends? I think I recall hearing that he plays at some restaurant or somewhere on Saturday afternoons -- maybe in San Diego??? Thanks, Earl Thanks for all the replies to the above question. The answer is YES, Mr. Roberts still plays on Sunday afternoons at Coronado (he returned my email to let me know!), and I just might be able to swing by that way on February 3. WOWSERS! I might get to "Meet Mr. Roberts"... Earl ********************************************************* Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APU24L,WA5IHL-11,K5BEN-15,WA5IHL-7,W5SF-1,K5CQH-15,WB5EKP-1*,TRACE7- 1:=3425.84N/10313.56W-[DM84] Pet peeve #1: You look at a "SITE" with your "SIGHT". Pet peeve #2: "Congratulations" does NOT have a "d" in it. Old pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list, then repeatedly sending "unsubscribe" or "remove" as one-word messages to the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:46:13 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Customisation Message-ID: <000901c1a2b4$49cae050$61cffea9@rodcomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List: I have a 62H which was worked on by Robb Stewart in LA (Minick style conversion, ie. "independent" linkage and D pipe) Excellent work. On the other hand, I recently saw/played a Bach 50 that had been converted to a double trigger - brutal work. Rod > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:50 AM > Subject: Customisation > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm thinking of converting a bulk standard bach 50B bass bone into a > double > > valve open wrap beast, Probably dependant configuration as I'm assuming > that > > would be cheaper. Any suggestions on the best place to get this type of > > work done and a ballpark $$. Has anyone done this sort of customisation > and > > what are your experiences?? > > > > thanks in advance > > > > Hamish > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:44:36 -0800 From: Todd Jonz To: Trombone-L mailing list Subject: Re: Online Privacy (re. E-mail Addresses) Message-ID: <20020121144436.A16343@tj.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FWIW, I concur in general with the opinions expressed here regarding the dissemination of "private" e-mail addresses in a public forum. In this case, however, I would argue that the point is moot, as Mr. Alessi's allegedly private e-mail address is published on his bio page at the web site of well-known music store. It didn't take me two minutes to find it myself on Google.... -- Todd Jonz When cryptography is outlawed, todd@tj.org bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:52:51 -0600 From: "Harry Wootan" To: Cc: "Mearl Danner" Subject: RE: Alessi Masterclass; Rouse Concerto Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mearl, Not *just* a standing ovation. A standing ovation followed by 2 curtain calls! A much better reception than I ever expected. -- Harry > A quote from a friend (an oboist - we don't know him Harry) - > "The end must be near. A standing ovation for a trombone > piece - and modern music at that." ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:14:11 +1300 From: "Hamish Dean" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Customisation Message-ID: <008201c1a2e2$388c1e20$555f4fcb@slidemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about customisation, your help is greatly appreciated. It is just amazing to have the collective knowledge of the list at your fingertips! Now ffor my second question, does anyone have contact details, preferably website or email, for Chuck McAlexander in NY City. thanks again Hamish ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:10:17 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Customisation Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/21/02 8:14 PM, Hamish Dean at slidemo@paradise.net.nz sent forth into the cosmos: > Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about customisation, your help > is greatly appreciated. It is just amazing to have the collective knowledge > of the list at your fingertips! > > Now ffor my second question, does anyone have contact details, preferably > website or email, for Chuck > McAlexander in NY City. > > thanks again > > Hamish > > To my knowledge, Chuck has neither email, nor website. Seeing as you're coming from New Zealand, definitely make an appointment, as he only takes walk-ins on Tuesdays. Here's what I do have... Chuck McAlexander Repair Brasslab Work: (212) 243-7180 532 W. 25 St. New York, NY 10001 Cheers, Walter Barrett "A Guinness a day helps keep the shrink away!" - Art Triggs Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:58:28 -0800 From: Larry White To: "Dale J. Cruse" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Joe Alessi: My Extreme Thanks! Message-ID: <3C4CC744.E4CA3C00@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No Dale, if the name is on the Web site, that is fine, but if I know your e-mail address and John Doe wants to know it, I would contact you to let you know John Doe wants to contact you. You could then contact him yourself. I would imagine, and I would think that many of these celebrities might have a Web site e mail address and also a personal e-mail address for those whom they wish to contact them directly for personal reasons. At least that is my take on it. Sorry if I was not more clear a/o more explicit in my reply. (I guess I thought you would have read my mind..:>) JMHO Larry White "Dale J. Cruse" wrote: > > "If Joe wishes to be contacted by John Q Public, he will advertise his name > and address as such." > But don't you understand that he has done exactly that by putting his email > address on his NY Philharmonic bio page? He could have chosen not to. NY Phil. > bass trombonist David Finlayson doesn't have his email address on his bio page. > Mr. Alessi could have left it off of his. > > > "I personally have a problem with people disclosing other people's addresses > in this way here. Prior to doing so the person doing the 'advertising of the > address' should have permission to do so." > Sorry, but this argument doesn't hold up. Are you saying that it's okay for Mr. > Alessi's email address to be posted on his NY Phil bio page for the ENTIRE WORLD > to see but NOT okay to post to the Trombone-L list? Publishing your email > address on the web is akin to publishing your phone number in the phone book. If > you do it, people are going to contact you, like it or not. If you don't want > people to contact you, then don't publish your contact info. > > I also have a HUGE problem with the idea that musicians should not want to hear > from "the less than desirable," as a previous post said. What does "less than > desirable" mean? Some kid who's been playing the trombone for two weeks and > barely knows which end of the horn to blow in? If a kid like that wants to take > the time and effort to contact a professional player with questions, praise, > whatever, don't we as professionals and keepers of the trombone flame owe it to > that person to respond? If not, who will? If a kid like that sends a message and > receives no response, what have we as a community told him by that lack of > reply? That deafening silence says, "You said something but we're too good or > too cool to care." If the kid then loses interest and quits playing the horn > because of a lack of support from professional players of the instrument, then I > believe we've failed not only that young player, but also ourselves. > > Dale J. Cruse > dale@dalecruse.com > http://www.dalecruse.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry White" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 6:44 PM > Subject: Re: Joe Alessi: My Extreme Thanks! > > > I personally have a problem with people disclosing other people's > > addresses in this way here. > > Prior to doing so the person doing the 'advertising of the address' > > should have permission to do so. > > If I know the address of the individual that someone is tring to > > contact, I will contact that individual and tell them that so and so > > wishes to contact you for such and such a reason. Joe Blow's address is > > ..... I then leave it up to the person to contact Joe Blow. > > There is certainly, in my estimation, a big difference between a website > > address, and a personal e-mail address of a person like Joe Alessi or > > even our own Doug Yeo, who I must admit is very considerate in replying > > to many of our (especially mine) unsolicited e-mails. > > The above are just my humble thoughts for what they are worth, and are > > not aimed at anybody specifically for any reason. > > It is that far too often I have seen people say, Oh, I know Joe Alessi, > > his address is such and such, and really they don't know him, they know > > his address, and they have received it from somebody who might have > > received form somebodsy else, etc, etc. > > If Joe wishes to be contacted by John Q Public, he will advertise his > > name and address as such. > > > > L J White > > > > > > Bear Woodson wrote: > > > > > Hello, Everyone. > > > > > > As you may know, I am not a brass player, but instead > > > am a composer. I am trying to write a series of sonatas > > > and concertos for each orchestral instrument, and already > > > have several. I am also therefore on over 25 Instrument > > > Lists, so I only get the Daily Digest Version of each, so > > > I know that a lot of you have answered my question > > > directly, but I won't get the Daily Digest until daytime. > > > It's now late at night (in fact almost sunrise) on Sunday > > > January 20, 2002. > > > > > > I wish to thank each of you for your thoughtful > > > replies! I'm not sure if this is his correct E-Mail Address: > > > > > > "Prof. Joseph Alessi" > > > > > > But once I realized that he teaches at Juilliard, I just > > > E-Mailed Dr. Raymond Mase, who likes my Trumpet > > > Sonata. He will likely have Professor Alessi's E-Mail > > > Address, whether the above one is correct, or not. I > > > also sent an E-Mail to that address, just in case it is > > > correct. (Even if it is correct, he may not check it > > > often, and may use another one, more often.) > > > > > > Anyway, my Extreme Thanks to all of you for your > > > kindness! > > > > > > I gotta get back to work. I'm under siege from an > > > all-out Quack Attack, because I'm writing Bassoon > > > Music this week! (It's actually the Paranoids dressed > > > up in Duck Suits! I can tell! They're always out to > > > GET me!) > > > > > > Bear Woodson > > > Composer, Tucson, Arizona, USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:24:23 EST From: T2PHXS@aol.com To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Cc: T2PHXS@aol.com Subject: Shires for sale. Message-ID: <90.201aa521.297e2757@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List, I'm selling my (Not new, but...) perfect condition Shires trombone. (Symphony size.) Bell - 1YM Slide - TB47 (Straight .547 bore with nickel oversleeves and endbow.) Valve - Greenhoe (Single, in F.) I've only got 2 leadpipes that go with it.(Instead of the normal 3.) It's how I bought the horn. They are - A standard #1 brass and #2L brass. Also.... it comes w/o case. Price - $2335.00 shipped and insured. Please email me privately for more info.. (Please not too many questions. The more you ask, the longer it takes me to respond. I type slow. :>) Besides.... It's a great horn.) Thanks !! Mike Brown, Phoenix (Such as it is...) Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:03:41 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: George Roberts? Message-ID: <4.2.2.20020121210057.00a9fdc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:47 PM 1/19/2002 -0800, Paul Hill wrote: Hi Earl, ...the Ferry Landing on Coronado Island; next to a coffee cart called "Kaffeen's". Uh -- I've been to San Diego exactly once in my 47 years, and I spent three months at Marine Corps boot camp, so you might imagine I have no earthly idea where the ferry runs. In looking at maps of the area, I see "highway 75", where is the ferry landing in relation to that highway? Or am I looking in the wrong area? That's Coronado/north Island, right? Thanks, Earl ********************************************************* Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APU24L,WA5IHL-11,K5BEN-15,WA5IHL-7,W5SF-1,K5CQH-15,WB5EKP-1*,TRACE7- 1:=3425.84N/10313.56W-[DM84] Pet peeve #1: You look at a "SITE" with your "SIGHT". Pet peeve #2: "Congratulations" does NOT have a "d" in it. Old pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list, then repeatedly sending "unsubscribe" or "remove" as one-word messages to the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:12:38 -0800 From: "Paul Hill" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: George Roberts? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C1A2D1.1E422340" Hi Earl, Yes...Coronado/North IslandÊis where you want to be (so do I in the middle of winter!) Drive across the San Diego/Coronado Bay Bridge to Orange Ave (the main Blvd through town)...take a rightÊon Orange until you "dead end" at First Street...take a right. The Ferry Landing will be less than a quarter mile on your left (you can't miss it with the fountains, small shops, Burger King, etc.). There is an actual Ferry Landing in this complex and a "Visitor's Center/Gift Shop" where the ferry tickets are sold. Kaffeen's is a non-permanent "specialty" coffee shop right behind the Visitor's Center/Gift Shop. As you are walking in...you will pass a little duck pond and more "T-Shirt/gift and trinket" shops. Man, am I jealous...I've seen George there many times (I used to live there!) but you can never get enough! BestÊRegards, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl Needham Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:04 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: George Roberts? At 11:47 PM 1/19/2002 -0800, Paul Hill wrote: >Hi Earl, > >...the Ferry Landing on Coronado Island; next to a coffee cart called >"Kaffeen's". Uh -- I've been to San Diego exactly once in my 47 years, and I spent three months at Marine Corps boot camp, so you might imagine I have no earthly idea where the ferry runs. In looking at maps of the area, I see "highway 75", where is the ferry landing in relation to that highway? Or am I looking in the wrong area? That's Coronado/north Island, right? Thanks, Earl ********************************************************* Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net Clovis, New Mexico KD5XB-2>APU24L,WA5IHL-11,K5BEN-15,WA5IHL-7,W5SF-1,K5CQH-15,WB5EKP-1*,TRACE7- 1:=3425.84N/10313.56W-[DM84] Pet peeve #1: You look at a "SITE" with your "SIGHT". Pet peeve #2: "Congratulations" does NOT have a "d" in it. Old pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list, then repeatedly sending "unsubscribe" or "remove" as one-word messages to the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:05:49 From: Wilson Ong To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Rimsky Korsakov Concerto Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020122150549.00cd4978@pop.singnet.com.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HI all, I will be performing the Korsakov concerto with my community band next month. Does anyone have program notes available for the piece? Any playing tips on how to carry the thing off? And what are your views in re-writing the cadenza? Thanks very much in advance. Wilson Ong ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 07:00:54 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: needhame@yucca.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 5:53 PM -0700 1/18/02, this was the discussion: A true disservice to the group. The sound crew did improve it a little after the first 20 minutes, but basically they are not using very good equipment and the mic placement didn't help much. I wonder why it seems to be so difficult to get the idea across to THEM! This has been a common complaint for years, and it continues... Earl Don't we have a member or 3 from the group on the list??? I'd like to hear their side of this issue. In defense of the Army Blues, I should think they have little or no control over the situation. Moreover, from the stage the mix is totally different. Their monitor mix may be just fine. I've also heard a high number of pro groups with similar problems discussed here, so let's be fair. Just for the record, however, I'm from the old school. Acoustic is tough to beat unless you are in a large venue (which these groups are most of the time). While I might only mic the soloists and announcer/vocalist, and have a pair of mics on the piano (mostly for presence) -- that would not work in a large hall. IAJE is the best example I can think of where the sound is almost always 100% dead-on musical and enjoyable. MOST of the time. One other point -- from a sound engineer's perspective, it is VERY difficult to get it right without benefit of a sound check and performing in a different hall each and every night. Been there; done that. A personal pet peeve of mine in regard to P.A. systems (and here's the trombone content): I dislike that sound that soloists get when they bury their bell into the mic. More often than not, the microphone is a cardiod pattern that exhibits a close proximity effect that is not flattering to the trombone when used in this manner. Perhaps the sound men should use a great quality omni for those situations? No proximity effect! Or as we most all would agree -- no mic at all. But like that's gonna happen; right? Best wishes, Wayne Dyess -- ========================= Dr. J. Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University Music Department P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:50:22 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi all... This amplification topic comes up fairly regularly. Music that is written and performed w/amplification in mind can be amplified fairly easily. The big band idiom is not such music, and to amplify music well that is in that idiom requires the very, very best technicians and equipment, plus a substantial amount of time in each hall for a sound check. These things in turn in cost money. Most big bands don't MAKE enough money to demand that kind of attention. Yet they have to work, and have to work in large halls in order to be able to make any money at ALL. Thus...the usual muffled and simultaneously overamplified big band. Sure it would be nice if the trombonists held their horns up and played w/a projecting sound, but most don't, and many of them have their reasons. That's just not the way their embouchures work best; they simply don't have the musculature to do so; they feel it makes no difference WHAT angle they hold the horn because no one's going to hear them anyway; if they put a great deal of air through the horn all night they wouldn't have the resources to play hard during their solos; a projecting style would screw w/their almost necessarily microphone based solo technique... I personally believe they are mostly not GOOD reasons, but it took me years and years to learn how to project, have enough endurance to do so all night, maintain a good sound and some semblance of finesse while doing so, and still retain my mobility and range. Most of the players on The Army Blues Band are fairly young...I mean, they RETIRE at an age where I was just beginning to figure some of these things out...so cut 'em some slack. They're just trying to make a living playing music. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:21:40 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020122121659.01bc1398@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:50 AM 01/22/2002 -0500, sabutin wrote: Sure it would be nice if the trombonists held their horns up and played w/a projecting sound, but most don't, and many of them have their reasons. That's just not the way their embouchures work best; they simply don't have the musculature to do so; they feel it makes no difference WHAT angle they hold the horn because no one's going to hear them anyway; if they put a great deal of air through the horn all night they wouldn't have the resources to play hard during their solos; a projecting style would screw w/their almost necessarily microphone based solo technique... I heard the bass trombonist perfectly well most of the night. He held his horn up and shot through an alley between sax players. I couldn't hear the other 3 trombones much as a section. Even if their embouchures made it difficult to hold the bell up, surely it isn't too much to ask them to find an alley between sax players so that some of their sound would sneak through to the audience. How many thousands of hours have these guys practiced to try to get a good sound? My one simple change would make more difference than everything else they think is important. It doesn't matter how good their chops are if the audience can't hear it. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:37:50 -0500 (EST) From: Don Long To: trombone-l@po.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Army Blues Jazz Ensemble & P.A. Reinforcement Message-ID: <200201221637.LAA15907@cshp048.cs.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: 3Gd8FvxwKZt4lAYKAGJ82A== > Thus...the usual muffled and simultaneously overamplified big band. > Ah, yes, amplification. The number one reason I don't go to as many live concerts as I should. Sabutin is right - doing the sound well would be expensive. On the other hand . . . Seems like one of the band members or one of the "groupies" - in this case wives, husbands, girl/boy friends, etc. - could wander out in front of the band and see what it sounds like. A little feedback along those lines would help a lot of bands. Can't quite understand why you want to hire 4 trombone players and then set up the sound so no one can hear them! Worst example of this was a Buddy Rich album I picked up in the 70's that had a chart we were playing on it. I knew what the trombones were doing and darned if I could hear them on the record! So I'll cut them SOME slack but probably not as much as Sabutin! Don Long Oh, our stage band is a volunteer group, so we don't have any of that amplification stuff (except for the guitars). I've always worked to play bell up, and one thing I know about my solos, such as they are - no one will have to lean forward to hear me! ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_2277--