TROMBONE-L Digest 1978 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Alternate positions in jazz by Dave Molter 2) RE: To Swing or not to Swing by "HICKS, JIM D" 3) Re: To Swing or not to Swing by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 4) addresses by "Burger, Eric SSG (USAREUR-BAND)" 5) Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by Gabriel Langfur 6) Digidesign mixer, for the PC by "Daniel Pliskin" 7) RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by Steve Gamble 8) Auditions by Steve Gamble 9) Re: Digidesign mixer, for the PC by "Jeff Albert" 10) RE: Auditions by briar@chicagonet.net 11) ETW URL by "Chuck De Paolo" 12) Pledge Mixture for Slide by "John Clutcher" 13) Re: ETW URL by Mike Loewen 14) RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by Steve Gamble 15) To Swing... revisited by William Dinwiddie 16) ETW URL - Found by "Chuck De Paolo" 17) RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by "Holst, Bill" 18) RE: Auditions by Steve Gamble 19) Advice sought.. by "Dean Hubbard" 20) Time (was To Swing... revisited) by "Jeff Albert" 21) Testing - (Delete), problems with email by "Dyke, David" 22) Re: Advice sought.. by sabutin@mindspring.com 23) Re: Pledge Mixture for Slide by Gabriel Langfur 24) RE:Pro Tools Free by TboneGib@aol.com 25) Re: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 26) Re: Time (was To Swing... revisited) by sabutin@mindspring.com 27) Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp by yardlejw@uwec.edu 28) Re: Alternate positions in jazz by Michael Shoshani 29) RE:Pro Tools Free by "Daniel Pliskin" 30) (no subject) by Tuckertbn@aol.com 31) RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by "Holst, Bill" 32) New Jeff Reynolds bass trombone mouthpiece by SFTrombone@aol.com 33) Thanks! by T2PHXS@aol.com 34) audition ad nauseum by alex iles 35) Placing the Responsibility by Chris Waage 36) Re: Placing the Responsibility by Craig Parmerlee 37) Arbans Book by "Bart Roberts" 38) Re: Arbans Book by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 39) Re: Arbans Book by "Adrian Drover" 40) Re: Pledge Mixture for Slide by "Adrian Drover" 41) Re: Time (was To Swing... revisited) by "Adrian Drover" 42) Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony by jimandcat@juno.com 43) Subj: New Jeff Reynolds bass trombone mouthpiece by Philbne@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:26:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Alternate positions in jazz Message-ID: <385270674.984576418870.JavaMail.root@web313-wrb> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This probably doesn't need to be pointed out to the older players in the list, but anyone who hasn't seen the late Frank Rosolino play should pick up a videotape of "Jazz Scene USA: Stan Kenton & Frank Rosolino" from Amazon.com. It features the Rosolino quartet for 30 minutes and the Stan Kenton mellophonium band for 30 minutes. Recorded in 1962, I believe. Rosolino is in great form, as always, and it's visual proof that alternates work. Compact slide movement, great use of the overtones series and alternates. The Kenton segment is great as well, including a few shots of a Reynolds dependent bass bone that was one of the first dual-valve production models. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:46:23 -0500 From: "HICKS, JIM D" To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: To Swing or not to Swing Message-ID: <97248F13771FD31184690008C75DEBDA02E12327@cin-ex-w-4.dfas.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" William; I agree 100%. You are of course talking about TIME! Good time in jazz is imperative! It's better to play nonsense notes in time than to play "the right notes" out of time. You ignore the jazz feel by being out of time. Then you might as well play Mahler. For that matter, Bach sounds like crap if you ignore time. Alternates are essential for whatever playing you do. I was taught to "make all the alternates sound the same". Practice that enough and they become just another slide choice to reduce your movements. Of course there's Curtis Fuller doing his thing in the staff. I could never figure how he does that. Jim Hicks -----Original Message----- From: William Dinwiddie [mailto:bill752@mediaone.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:55 PM To: Trombone-L Subject: To Swing or not to Swing Hi Listers, I'd like to make a point which I believe has been overlooked in the discussion about alternate positions. I think that the main thing to get right for someone who is playing jazz or jazz-influenced music is that it should SWING. I think that one reason that some very good trombone players have difficulty swinging is that they are trying to play too good. Trying to make every note a jewel, or worrying about what is the best possible choice of position for any given note may be neglecting the prime directive. Using alternate positions, especially on non-trigger tenor trombones, is not just a convenience; in many cases it is imperative that the alternate be used, or the true swing feel will be lost or at least damaged. Trying to play swing figures with trumpets or saxes, especially in a unison, can be a problem for trombone players. We soon discover that those guys have a great advantage, in that they can change notes almost instantaneously. It takes a trombone a few milliseconds longer to get from one note to another, and those milliseconds really count when you are trying to make something swing. If you use alternate positions effectively it may do wonders for your swing feel. Also, I have always felt that "cheating" is permissable to achieve a better swing feel. Playing a passing tone in the "wrong" position can often be the right choice in that the overall feel of the jazz ensemble is improved. I've played a lot of second line B naturals in fourth or fifth position on my straight tenor horn to be sure I didn't slow down the time. Of course, that's just my opinion. I'd be interested to hear some others. Bill Dinwiddie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:51:29 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: bill752@mediaone.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: To Swing or not to Swing Message-ID: <4e.12c15325.27e0d161@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Arbans book often overlooks the problem of millisecond changes as applies to a Trombone. Makes you wonder at times if the slide will suddenly bend into a "Z". beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:00:41 +0100 From: "Burger, Eric SSG (USAREUR-BAND)" To: "'Big Band List'" , "'Brian Simpson'" Subject: addresses Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:17:49 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <20010314161749.55844.qmail@web10313.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > The people who play in these orchestras are no dummies...witness > Doug Yeo, > for example...and some orchestras (including Doug's, I believe) are > now > instituting ensemble "auditions"...periods of time where the few > candidates > left after the original audition process is completed play in > rehearsal or > performance situations to establish their capacities to blend in both > musically > and personally. (Really the same thing, when you get down to it...) > Doug can of course shed more light on this than I, but I believe the Boston Symphony has done this for a long time. When Charles Schlueter was selected as principal trumpet back in about 1981, performing for a week or so with the orchestra was part of the final process, and I think other principal positions have been filled since in this way also. I read an interesting blurb by Lynn Larsen (BSO personnel manager) in I think Windplayer Magazine a couple of years ago, to the effect that Seiji Ozawa prioritizes having real soloist-type players in principal positions - meaning players who have a truly unique approach. It's no secret that some of his personnel choices have been controversial, and also no secret that he has regretted some of them - i.e. the controversy over Mr. Schlueter, whom he tried to dismiss from his tenured position, and the ridiculous amount of time it took to fill the principal flute chair. Whatever your take on Mr. Ozawa's choices, I think it's clear that he has selected some players who simply can't be mistaken for anyone else: Schlueter, Jacques Zoon (principal flute), to some extent James Somerville (principal horn). And that approach to hiring is laudable in my opinion, whether or not every single choice is the perfect one for the sound and personality of the orchestra. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:25:39 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Digidesign mixer, for the PC Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List, While we?re talking about give-aways, Digidesign is giving away a version of their computerized mixer (to squash one of its competitors, I believe). I runs on a PC and can be downloaded from their web site (www.digidesign.com). The PC version has a bunch of specs for what kind of PC you need, in order to run the software, but a lot of that is merely because they haven?t had the opportunity to test the software on other machines. As such, it might run perfectly or it might not. If it does run, it?s a pretty powerful tool that lets you record and play back audio, through your sound card. You can also mix in MIDI files and mix tracks. Let me know, one way or the other, if it works or not, on your machine. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:32:11 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <01C0AC72.085DFB40.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know of any orchestra that doesn't have a probation period and procedure written into their master agreement. It is really an extension of the audition process. It is a time for the conductor/orchestra to evaluate the many things that just can't be evaluated during a few minutes of playing behind a screen or with the section or even with the candidate playing a cycle with the orchestra. A candidate doesn't really win the job until s/he gets tenure. By that time, what the candidate actually brings to the organization (work ethic, adaptability, musical variety, personality, all manner of things) has become very clear. The chances are good that the winning candidate is going to be spending a substantial part of the rest of his/her career with the same bunch of musicians. New members must fit in in as many ways as possible so that everybody else can enjoy coming to work. It doesn't really matter if the reasons are stupid that an orchestra prefers one candidate over another (as long as they are legal). If a fine player doesn't get tenure, it says absolutely nothing about that player, but says plenty about the orchestra. While it is never a pleasant experience being dismissed from an audition, in a practical sense there isn't that much difference between being dismissed in the first round or not getting tenure. (I expect I'll hear some objections to that last sentence.) The orchestra didn't pick a winner. It happens all the time. Everybody ought to know this going in. If they did, there would be much less griping about or taking personally the decisions of audition committees. -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel Langfur [SMTP:glangfur@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:18 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony --- sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > The people who play in these orchestras are no dummies...witness > Doug Yeo, > for example...and some orchestras (including Doug's, I believe) are > now > instituting ensemble "auditions"...periods of time where the few > candidates > left after the original audition process is completed play in > rehearsal or > performance situations to establish their capacities to blend in both > musically > and personally. (Really the same thing, when you get down to it...) > Doug can of course shed more light on this than I, but I believe the Boston Symphony has done this for a long time. When Charles Schlueter was selected as principal trumpet back in about 1981, performing for a week or so with the orchestra was part of the final process, and I think other principal positions have been filled since in this way also. I read an interesting blurb by Lynn Larsen (BSO personnel manager) in I think Windplayer Magazine a couple of years ago, to the effect that Seiji Ozawa prioritizes having real soloist-type players in principal positions - meaning players who have a truly unique approach. It's no secret that some of his personnel choices have been controversial, and also no secret that he has regretted some of them - i.e. the controversy over Mr. Schlueter, whom he tried to dismiss from his tenured position, and the ridiculous amount of time it took to fill the principal flute chair. Whatever your take on Mr. Ozawa's choices, I think it's clear that he has selected some players who simply can't be mistaken for anyone else: Schlueter, Jacques Zoon (principal flute), to some extent James Somerville (principal horn). And that approach to hiring is laudable in my opinion, whether or not every single choice is the perfect one for the sound and personality of the orchestra. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:52:15 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "Trombone List (E-mail)" Subject: Auditions Message-ID: <01C0AC74.D587BB40.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ooops. Forgot to sign my last post. Steve Gamble, Librarian Tucson Symphony Orchestra 2175 N. 6th Ave. Tucson, AZ 85705 (520) 792-9155 (520) 792-9155 fax orchpers@azstarnet.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:59:57 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Digidesign mixer, for the PC Message-ID: <007f01c0acb0$950db920$a6db1542@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I think Dan is referring to Pro Tools Free. I have downloaded it, and it DID NOT work on my machine, but I do have one of the AMD processors that they say it won't work with. All of that being said, my understanding is that the only significant difference between PT Free and the full version, is that on Free you can only record through your sound card, which limits you to one or two tracks simultaneously. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: Digidesign mixer, for the PC > > List, > > While we?re talking about give-aways, Digidesign is giving away a version of > their computerized mixer (to squash one of its competitors, I believe). I > runs on a PC and can be downloaded from their web site (www.digidesign.com). > > The PC version has a bunch of specs for what kind of PC you need, in order > to run the software, but a lot of that is merely because they haven?t had > the opportunity to test the software on other machines. As such, it might > run perfectly or it might not. > > If it does run, it?s a pretty powerful tool that lets you record and play > back audio, through your sound card. You can also mix in MIDI files and mix > tracks. > > Let me know, one way or the other, if it works or not, on your machine. > > DanP > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:24:01 +0000 From: briar@chicagonet.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Auditions Message-ID: <200103141727.8717400@mail.chicagonet.net> Steve Gamble wrote: > New > members must fit in in as many ways as possible so that everybody else can > enjoy coming to work. It doesn't really matter if the reasons are stupid > that an orchestra prefers one candidate over another (as long as they are > legal). If a fine player doesn't get tenure, it says absolutely nothing > about that player, but says plenty about the orchestra. I couldn't help wondering about that first statement. Every orchestral environment I've ever been in is filled with disgruntled folks griping about how everything would be so much better if just .... Everybody takes hits: conductors, strings, composers, sections leaders, bass trombonists, etc. The finger pointing is almost always outwardly directed. And musicians in orchestra ought to enjoy themselves? That's an odd statement, IMO, at least as far as it goes beyond avoiding unnecessary discomfort and hostility. I also believe that insisting that being fired from a position says nothing about the person being terminated is a strange notion. There are, of course, reasons, of which the public may not know. But it certainly says, at the very least, "doesn't quite fit." It doesn't say that the person can't be or isn't otherwise successful as a musician or person, though that may also be true. Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Panda Mail. Check your regular email account away from home free! http://bstar.net/panda/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:52:32 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: ETW URL Message-ID: <00fb01c0acb7$ed3ceec0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone have the web address for the 2001 ETW coming up this week? (please quote this message if you reply) In Music, ---Chuck General Manager & Webmaster Hickey's Music Center 104 Adams Street Ithaca, NY 14850 607.272.8262 (Phone) 607.272.2203 (Fax) chuck@hickeys.com (E-Mail) http://www.hickeys.com (Website) http://www.weather.com/weather/us/zips/14850.html (Weather) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:56:41 -0500 From: "John Clutcher" To: Subject: Pledge Mixture for Slide Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been dissatisfied with some slide lubricant options I've been using for my 1 year old CONN 88H-O. I've tried trombonetine, slide-o-mix and CONN super slick. Sometimes they work great, but other times my slide is sluggish. I've been sensitive to keeping the slide clean and experimenting with trying to fine the best mixture of cream, etc. I'm basically frustrated at this point in time. I shouldn't have to worry about my slide every time I play. This brings me to my question. What the exact mixture for those of you who use the combination of Pledge, silicon and distilled water? Some people refer to it as the Michigan Pledge Mixture. It's my understanding that it works great with minimum maintenance. Any comments? I have a 1 quart bottle of Pledge (spray bottle), distilled water and a small bottle of CONN silicon ready to mix. Thanks John F. Clutcher Information Resources and Technology (IRT) Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center Academic Support Building - A310 PO Box 855, Hershey, PA 17033-2903 (717) 531-8682, Fax: (717) 531-5441 EMail: JClutcher@psu.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:54:22 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Loewen To: Chuck De Paolo Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ETW URL Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Chuck De Paolo wrote: > Anyone have the web address for the 2001 ETW coming up this week? http://www.army.mil/armyband/fr_trombone.htm Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html The B9 Robot Builders Club http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/B9/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:55:47 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'Dennis Clason'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <01C0AC7D.B5D07180.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis, Your last sentence describes pretty much the way most probation periods are designed to work in orchestras that I know about. Most audition procedures and rules in most orchestras are structured to keep things as anonymous as possible so that all candidates have an equal chance of getting to the probation period without having any previous non-tenure problem or anything else being held against them. Once they have that temporary contract, everyone can see for themselves if the candidate will fit in. It seems that your description of the academic "audition process" and what typically happens in the audition process for orchestras in the USA don't really compare. It sounds like orchestra auditions are fairer. Regards, Steve Gamble -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Clason [SMTP:dclason@nmsu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:16 PM To: orchpers@azstarnet.com; Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony > The chances are > good that the winning candidate is going to be spending a substantial part > of the rest of his/her career with the same bunch of musicians. New > members must fit in in as many ways as possible so that everybody else can > enjoy coming to work. That's very true. A disruptive colleague can make a great job terrible. > It doesn't really matter if the reasons are stupid > that an orchestra prefers one candidate over another (as long as they are > legal). If a fine player doesn't get tenure, it says absolutely nothing > about that player, but says plenty about the orchestra. While it is never > a pleasant experience being dismissed from an audition, in a practical > sense there isn't that much difference between being dismissed in the first > round or not getting tenure. (I expect I'll hear some objections to that > last sentence.) Yep. Here's the first one. I don't know about the situation in orchestra, but I do know the parallel situation in the groves of Academe. Not getting tenured is a big, black mark next to your name. (The only exception to that rule is not getting tenured at one of the Ivies, who tenure hardly any of their young faculty. They seem to believe that going out and being able to say "When I was at Penn (or Harvard or Princeton or Dartmouth or ...) is sufficient.") It shouldn't be, but it is. In Academe, you move down the heirarchy once if you don't get tenured in your first tenure-leading job. In an orchestra, where the matter of fitting in and getting along is much more important than in an academic department, I would not be surprised to learn that not getting tenured in a tenure-leading position a bigger black mark. > The orchestra didn't pick a winner. It happens all the > time. And one of the reads of University hiring authorities is, "He wasn't a winner for the University of Southern North Dakota, what makes you think he would be a winner for us?" I have heard Deans make *exactly* that statement. I would be surprised to learn that no Music Directors have the same set of prejudices. It would be a kinder thing all around to hire on a non-tenure leading contract and re-evaluate at the end of the contract period. Dennis -- ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:11:17 -0600 From: William Dinwiddie To: Trombone-L Subject: To Swing... revisited Message-ID: <3AAFC255.38CD5D45@mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, I thank you for the clarification. Had I been a little less in a hurry to write my original piece, I think I would have put it a bit differently. In fact, what I meant by "playing a lot of B naturals in 4th or 5th position" is that the true pitch will not come out, but whatever does come out (some people call it a ghost note) is really preferable to trying to make the real note happen, because it will fit much better with the swing feel that is being executed by the other horns. If you have a trigger and can produce the true note, that's great. Many players, including myself, tend to avoid trigger horns, because they tend to be larger bore horns that don't work as well in a big band or jazz venue, especially on the first or second part. I will probably get a big argument on that opinion, but I feel it's true in my business. The main thing, however, is that trombone players playing jazz should worry about the TIME. If you are getting a good overall sound, don't worry about every sixteeth note. Make it swing. Think of those low Cs and Bs or other notes that are awkward to play as Xs. Some of the hipper arrangers even write those notes as actual Xs or with parentheses around them. I think that this approach even works in solo passages, when you are not covered by another horn. It's amazing what the ear "thinks" its hears, when everything is swinging nice and evenly. I think you can think of this whole thing as an "aural illusion" similar to an "optical illusion". Bill Dinwiddie Paul Kemp wrote, Bill, On a straight horn, you must play that 2nd line B in 7th on a straight horn, because if you don't, you won't get the note AT ALL. That's the only place you can play that note and have enough tubng to make it happen. As far as the rest of your post is concerned, you make some excellent points, and even though I'm primarily not a jazzer, the use of altenate positions in many cases really does make sense. The idea isn't necessarily to make every note a jewel--it's the feel of the music that counts. Now, if you CAN make every note a jewel, then I think you should. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:22:11 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: ETW URL - Found Message-ID: <013601c0acbc$119c02c0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your help - I've been given the ETW URL and it is good. ---Chuck ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:36:09 -0700 From: "Holst, Bill" To: "'glangfur@yahoo.com'" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum. (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <65B9C0230E16D311B9D600105A090E6F3405AC@FIR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would like to hear some commentary on European auditions, especially from our European list members. Several years ago, we had a guest soloist with the orchestra who said that many positions were filled by invitation only; for example, would be 3 invited players who would each play a third of a season. Is this still a common practice? While this does not address the "fairness" factor that the screened audition addresses, it might go a long way toward addressing the ensemble playing/personality/conductor preference issues this thread has been discussing. Is there a way that this sort of process might be combined with the normal behind-the-screen process? Is this more fair to the candidate and the orchestra? Please discuss.... Bill Holst, Colorado Springs Symphony and High Altitude Trombone Quartet www.hatq.org -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel Langfur [mailto:glangfur@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:18 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony --- sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > The people who play in these orchestras are no dummies...witness > Doug Yeo, > for example...and some orchestras (including Doug's, I believe) are > now > instituting ensemble "auditions"...periods of time where the few > candidates > left after the original audition process is completed play in > rehearsal or > performance situations to establish their capacities to blend in both > musically > and personally. (Really the same thing, when you get down to it...) > Doug can of course shed more light on this than I, but I believe the Boston Symphony has done this for a long time. When Charles Schlueter was selected as principal trumpet back in about 1981, performing for a week or so with the orchestra was part of the final process, and I think other principal positions have been filled since in this way also. I read an interesting blurb by Lynn Larsen (BSO personnel manager) in I think Windplayer Magazine a couple of years ago, to the effect that Seiji Ozawa prioritizes having real soloist-type players in principal positions - meaning players who have a truly unique approach. It's no secret that some of his personnel choices have been controversial, and also no secret that he has regretted some of them - i.e. the controversy over Mr. Schlueter, whom he tried to dismiss from his tenured position, and the ridiculous amount of time it took to fill the principal flute chair. Whatever your take on Mr. Ozawa's choices, I think it's clear that he has selected some players who simply can't be mistaken for anyone else: Schlueter, Jacques Zoon (principal flute), to some extent James Somerville (principal horn). And that approach to hiring is laudable in my opinion, whether or not every single choice is the perfect one for the sound and personality of the orchestra. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:39:13 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'briar@chicagonet.net'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Auditions Message-ID: <01C0AC83.C745AF60.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, I agree that being fired from a job feels terrible. But my point is that the player doesn't really have the job until after the probation period. So, technically, a player is not being fired if they don't get tenure. Yes, to get that far and not be hired permanently is probably more painful that being dismissed in the first round. But we are still talking about the orchestra's opinion of the player, not the player him/herself. A while back there was a big discussion of the role of critics in the art business on the list. If I remember correctly, the general concensous went something like "critics are entitled to their opinions even if they don't know squat." I think the same is true of an orchestra's opinion. That's why I said that non-tenure doesn't really say anything about the player, musically or otherwise. And, sure, there are whiners in every workplace. The constant complainers disqualify themselves from real participation in the life of an orchestra. But why shouldn't those of us with a healthy view of things avail ourselves of every opportunity to keep our work environment an enjoyable one? (This would include spotting the non-tenured whiners and giving them the boot.) I know of no musician that went into the biz just for the money. So, of course, enjoyment is a huge part of making music. Still, having said these things, what my orchestra might consider a whiner another orchestra might find stimulating. So, again, a fine player not getting tenure just can't be automatically interpreted as a black mark against that player. Regards, Steve Gamble -----Original Message----- From: briar@chicagonet.net [SMTP:briar@chicagonet.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:24 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Auditions Steve Gamble wrote: > New > members must fit in in as many ways as possible so that everybody else can > enjoy coming to work. It doesn't really matter if the reasons are stupid > that an orchestra prefers one candidate over another (as long as they are > legal). If a fine player doesn't get tenure, it says absolutely nothing > about that player, but says plenty about the orchestra. I couldn't help wondering about that first statement. Every orchestral environment I've ever been in is filled with disgruntled folks griping about how everything would be so much better if just .... Everybody takes hits: conductors, strings, composers, sections leaders, bass trombonists, etc. The finger pointing is almost always outwardly directed. And musicians in orchestra ought to enjoy themselves? That's an odd statement, IMO, at least as far as it goes beyond avoiding unnecessary discomfort and hostility. I also believe that insisting that being fired from a position says nothing about the person being terminated is a strange notion. There are, of course, reasons, of which the public may not know. But it certainly says, at the very least, "doesn't quite fit." It doesn't say that the person can't be or isn't otherwise successful as a musician or person, though that may also be true. Robert Holland Briar Music Press briar@chicagonet.net --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Panda Mail. Check your regular email account away from home free! http://bstar.net/panda/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:53:31 -0800 From: "Dean Hubbard" To: Subject: Advice sought.. Message-ID: <05bc01c0acc0$7afbe240$a3863d3f@Bonedean> Friends, I have a chance to buy a Conn 70H circa 1946, tuning in the slide, stacked dependent valves by Minnick, a newer King hard case and removable lead pipe. The instrument is sound and cosmetically nice and really plays great. The fellow that's selling it doesn't know what a fair price would be and neither do I. If you could give me a ball park figure I'd be very grateful. Thanks in advance for your time and expertise. Thanks, Dean Hubbard Bonedean@msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:03:39 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Time (was To Swing... revisited) Message-ID: <00be01c0acc1$e08ee2a0$a6db1542@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The main thing, however, is that trombone players playing jazz > should worry about the TIME. ========================================== I agree, and would like to add... Anyone playing MUSIC should worry about the time. I'll avoid the term pet peeve, but one of the things that I find most distracting in any style of music is bad time. I routinely use the word groove when teaching sight-singing and rhythm reading to university freshmen, because that's what it is. Vivaldi should have a groove, Mozart should have a groove, Bruckner motets should have a groove. Granted these grooves are different from the Basie band or Tower of Power, but they are still grooves. When I say groove it is just another way to say good time, and all good music has good time. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:43:22 -0500 From: "Dyke, David" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Testing - (Delete), problems with email Message-ID: <1D1A4EF7AD4DD211A80D00A0C9D7DB6605C53B57@exna1.stratus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" -----Original Message----- From: John Clutcher [mailto:jclutcher@psu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:57 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Pledge Mixture for Slide I've been dissatisfied with some slide lubricant options I've been using for my 1 year old CONN 88H-O. I've tried trombonetine, slide-o-mix and CONN super slick. Sometimes they work great, but other times my slide is sluggish. I've been sensitive to keeping the slide clean and experimenting with trying to fine the best mixture of cream, etc. I'm basically frustrated at this point in time. I shouldn't have to worry about my slide every time I play. This brings me to my question. What the exact mixture for those of you who use the combination of Pledge, silicon and distilled water? Some people refer to it as the Michigan Pledge Mixture. It's my understanding that it works great with minimum maintenance. Any comments? I have a 1 quart bottle of Pledge (spray bottle), distilled water and a small bottle of CONN silicon ready to mix. Thanks John F. Clutcher Information Resources and Technology (IRT) Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center Academic Support Building - A310 PO Box 855, Hershey, PA 17033-2903 (717) 531-8682, Fax: (717) 531-5441 EMail: JClutcher@psu.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:50:40 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: bonedean@email.msn.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Advice sought.. Message-ID: <200103142054.PAA28283@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:53 AM 3/14/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Friends, > I have a chance to buy a Conn 70H circa 1946, tuning in the slide, stacked dependent valves by Minnick, a newer >King hard case and removable lead pipe. The instrument is sound and cosmetically nice and really plays great. The >fellow that's > selling it doesn't know what a fair price would be and neither do I. If you could give me a ball park figure I'd > be very grateful. Thanks in advance for your time and expertise. > > Thanks, >Dean Hubbard >Bonedean@msn.com ================== Priceless. If I liked the horn as is...no work necessary...and wanted to use it as my primary bass trombone, I'd pay as much as any new horn...high $2000s, if necessary. That said, I've seen 70Hs in good condition on ebay for between $900 + about $1750...none w/Minick work, though. I WILL say that recently I've played a few new instruments...small and large tenors, basses...that equal and in some ways surpass the great horns of the '30s-'50s. Most Shires, some new Conns, some Edwards + Getzens, some Yamahas, a couple of Kunehl + Hoyer (sp?) tenors...and they're going for equivalent money new. Good luck... S, ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Pledge Mixture for Slide Message-ID: <20010314205427.58245.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John, I don't know about the Pledge mixture, but I do know that my slide will gum up if I have a lot of valve oil leaking into it. That's one thing. Second, If you go back to using a cream, try using VERY little only on the stockings, working it around, and then wiping it off completely and applying a drop of the silicone liquid to each tube. Third, I recently followed Paul Kemp's instructions for polishing the inside of the outer slide tubes with Brasso, and I can now use the lubrication method I wanted (above, which wasn't working previously) with freedom. My slide works better than it ever has before (3 yr old Shires). I can repost these instructions, but it wouldn't surprise me if Paul already has... Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:45:31 EST From: TboneGib@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE:Pro Tools Free Message-ID: <29.11c607c7.27e1407b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_29.11c607c7.27e1407b_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline Be aware, too, that Pro Tools will DEMAND 128 MB of RAM. That's more than some of you may be running on your machines.Also, Mac users: the cache must be set to 512MB and virtual memory MUST be turned off. If you have the memory to run this program, it's quite impressive! Tom Gibson Brass Dept. Coordinator Georgia State University TboneGib@aol.com (w) 404-651-1740 trombonelessons.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:32:39 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: wholst@coinfotech.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <3AAFF187.DA942232@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill and list, While I can't fairly comment on European auditions--having only played one, I can comment on the system that you mention of invitation and selection based on playing with the orchestra. My main orchestra of employment is the Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra. It is a per service orchestra for everyone (used to be salaried core/per service extras until bankruptcy a few years ago) and when I joined they were not holding official auditions for my chair (bass trombone) due to the fact that it was not a core position but one of the extra positions. The principal and personnel manager (and conductor, I assume) felt it would be fair to fill the spot by inviting three players based on recommendations from other players in the area and to have them play a couple of gigs each and then decide based on that. They were doing the same thing at the same time with the second chair, which is also a per service extra spot. It is not really fair for me to comment on the fairness of this system but I can point out some problems in the situations that I was in. I think we each did a master works and something else, either a pops or in my case some school shows. I feel I got lucky because on my MW show the second player was filling in but not being "auditioned", he was the principal from another orchestra nearby. Needless to say it was very easy to fit in with these two outstanding players and the added bonus of getting to play for another principal for another orchestra on the same gig. On my school show I had the advantage of playing with an excellent trombone player who was eventually chosen for the second spot. I know one of the other bass trombone players did not get so lucky with the second player and had a bit of a rougher time playing in the section which may have led to his not being chosen. Hard to say. The other bass trombone player that was playing was of the type that apparently was a little cranky in the section. Not rude or mean just kind of surly looking. Again, hard to say. This is mostly based on anecdotal evidence from the former principal that I played under. The biggest problem in my case or this case is the inconsistency from section to section during the audition. Perhaps if everybody had been playing with the same section it may have been fairer, we don't know. I know there are some people who play auditions very well and don't play in the section well. Some people are the opposite. Other people do both well. I think an audition process that includes playing with the section as part of the final round is a fairer process than just solo auditions. I think we are seeing this more and more with orchestras and it makes sense to me. There are different skills required in both situations and it is naive to assume that the best solo player will be the best player for the section/ensemble. Thanks for listening. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:29:15 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: "Jeff Albert" Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Time (was To Swing... revisited) Message-ID: <200103142233.RAA09583@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:03 PM 3/14/01 -0600, you wrote: > >The main thing, however, is that trombone players playing jazz >> should worry about the TIME. > >========================================== > >I agree, and would like to add... > >Anyone playing MUSIC should worry about the time. I'll avoid the term pet >peeve, but one of the things that I find most distracting in any style of >music is bad time. I routinely use the word groove when teaching >sight-singing and rhythm reading to university freshmen, because that's what >it is. Vivaldi should have a groove, Mozart should have a groove, Bruckner >motets should have a groove. Granted these grooves are different from the >Basie band or Tower of Power, but they are still grooves. When I say groove >it is just another way to say good time, and all good music has good time. > >Jeff Albert > >www.jeffalbert.com ====================== YES !!!!!!!!! A little thought in support of this... We all talk about "pitch"...good pitch, matching pitch, who's sharp or flat and why...pitch pitch pitch pitch pitch pitch pitch pitch pitch. What IS a "pitch" but a very fast tempo ? Really. And how're you going to play a fast tempo...a pitch...if you can't play a slow tempo...good time? Carmine Caruso's WHOLE THING was about good, internal time and its beneficial effects on the body,and at least 3/4 of my method book is based on the same idea. Someone purportedly once asked Fats Waller "What is swing?",and his answer was supposed to have been "If you don't know, I can't tell you." Well, I'M here to tell you...swing is good time. That's all, just good time. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:05:50 -0600 From: yardlejw@uwec.edu To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List, If there's anyone out there that has worked at the Blue Lake music camp over the summer, can you please e-mail me off the list? Thank you. James Yardley Bass Trombone ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:03:51 -0600 From: Michael Shoshani To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Alternate positions in jazz Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave Molter wrote: >This probably doesn't need to be pointed out to the older players in the >list, but anyone who hasn't seen the late Frank Rosolino play should pick up >a videotape of "Jazz Scene USA: Stan Kenton & Frank Rosolino" from >Amazon.com. It features the Rosolino quartet for 30 minutes and the Stan >Kenton mellophonium band for 30 minutes. Recorded in 1962, I believe. >Rosolino is in great form, as always, and it's visual proof that alternates >work. Compact slide movement, great use of the overtones series and >alternates. I don't remember where this is (didn't bookmark it, but I did filch the file to my hard drive so I could study it religiously), but the OTJ website has a small streaming video with sound of Rosolino playing for a couple of minutes. He seems to spend a lot of time in 2nd and 4th positions. Michael Shoshani Chicago IL "Life is an art, not a science; You make it up as you go along." -Al Hirschfeld ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:11:47 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE:Pro Tools Free Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Be aware, too, that Pro Tools will DEMAND 128 MB of RAM. That's more than some of you may be running on your machines.Also, Mac users: the cache must be set to 512MB and virtual memory MUST be turned off. If you have the memory to run this program, it's quite impressive! Tom and all, Iâll admit, you do need to hot-rod your computer in order to use it for a digital mixer. Youâll need lots of RAM, lots of disk space. Itâll probably cost about $150.00 to set your computer up to run any digital mixer. On the other hand, if you want that functionality, and CD quality audio, all of your other choices are going to cost considerably more than that. Iâll admit, that I send all my time practicing and honking along with the stereo or Band in a Box, so I donât have much use for such a thing. But itâs available for those of you that want to play around with quality multi-track recording. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:17:19 EST From: Tuckertbn@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <94.116ddaae.27e155ff@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_94.116ddaae.27e155ff_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline >>Anyone playing MUSIC should worry about the time. I'll avoid the term pet peeve, but one of the things that I find most distracting in any style of music is bad time. I routinely use the word groove when teaching sight-singing and rhythm reading to university freshmen, because that's what it is. Vivaldi should have a groove, Mozart should have a groove, Bruckner motets should have a groove. Granted these grooves are different from the Basie band or Tower of Power, but they are still grooves. When I say groove it is just another way to say good time, and all good music has good time. Jeff Albert>> Hear Hear!! ÊIt is always irritating when the people sitting around you in a group play consistently Êbehind or ahead of the beat. Ê(Unfortunately, in my experience, trombone players seem to be constantly at fault in this department). ÊWhy is that?? Craig Tucker ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:59:09 -0700 From: "Holst, Bill" To: "'sarapete@sympatico.ca'" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum. (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <65B9C0230E16D311B9D600105A090E6F3405AD@FIR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter and list... I think your situation was different from the European audition in that you didn't play with the same section, so there was never an apples to apples comparison. It did point out that one of the players was "cranky" and difficult to perform with, which might be cause for rejection. The situation I mentioned before involved playing an entire season by invitation, which was used by several major European orchesras. Perhaps the process might be to qualify 2,3, or 4 players during the standard audition and then schedule them to each play several concert series on the next concert season. This has the advantage of being able to work with people in several real performance situations. The obvious disadvantage is that individuals probably have other jobs so scheduling would/could be difficult. However, many orchestras have a fairly lenient leave policy for explicit musical purposes like festivals, auditions, etc., so it might work. Comments? Bill Holst -----Original Message----- From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur [mailto:sarapete@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:33 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Auditions was Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Hi Bill and list, While I can't fairly comment on European auditions--having only played one, I can comment on the system that you mention of invitation and selection based on playing with the orchestra. My main orchestra of employment is the Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra. It is a per service orchestra for everyone (used to be salaried core/per service extras until bankruptcy a few years ago) and when I joined they were not holding official auditions for my chair (bass trombone) due to the fact that it was not a core position but one of the extra positions. The principal and personnel manager (and conductor, I assume) felt it would be fair to fill the spot by inviting three players based on recommendations from other players in the area and to have them play a couple of gigs each and then decide based on that. They were doing the same thing at the same time with the second chair, which is also a per service extra spot. It is not really fair for me to comment on the fairness of this system but I can point out some problems in the situations that I was in. I think we each did a master works and something else, either a pops or in my case some school shows. I feel I got lucky because on my MW show the second player was filling in but not being "auditioned", he was the principal from another orchestra nearby. Needless to say it was very easy to fit in with these two outstanding players and the added bonus of getting to play for another principal for another orchestra on the same gig. On my school show I had the advantage of playing with an excellent trombone player who was eventually chosen for the second spot. I know one of the other bass trombone players did not get so lucky with the second player and had a bit of a rougher time playing in the section which may have led to his not being chosen. Hard to say. The other bass trombone player that was playing was of the type that apparently was a little cranky in the section. Not rude or mean just kind of surly looking. Again, hard to say. This is mostly based on anecdotal evidence from the former principal that I played under. The biggest problem in my case or this case is the inconsistency from section to section during the audition. Perhaps if everybody had been playing with the same section it may have been fairer, we don't know. I know there are some people who play auditions very well and don't play in the section well. Some people are the opposite. Other people do both well. I think an audition process that includes playing with the section as part of the final round is a fairer process than just solo auditions. I think we are seeing this more and more with orchestras and it makes sense to me. There are different skills required in both situations and it is naive to assume that the best solo player will be the best player for the section/ensemble. Thanks for listening. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:43:05 EST From: SFTrombone@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: New Jeff Reynolds bass trombone mouthpiece Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_c0.11261948.27e16a19_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Language: en I'll try to keep shameless plugs to a minimum, but I though list members would be interested in this new product. Occasionally list members have contacted me in their search for a Minick mouthpiece. ÊPerhaps it's because I play Minick horns and live in Los Angeles. ÊRecenty I did hint that Los Angeles Philharmonic bass trombinst Jeff Reynolds and I were getting together to produce a new mouthpiece, and the rumors have started. ÊWell, the rumors are true and the mouthpieces are done. ÊI am now selling this new bass trombone mouthpiece. ÊJeff loves it better than his original. For those of you who like the Minick L mouthpiece, this Jeff Reynolds is wider, and darker, but features the same wide comfortable rim, and signature larger, heavier Êblank. ÊÊJeff says: ÒThe mouthpiece has lots of core, and a big, hot sound at all dynamicsÓ ÒThe sound is centered, with lots of overtones, evenwhen played pianissimoÓ ÒIt has a more cup shaped bowl, and a classic Bach style shankÓ ÒThis new mouthpiece is better than my originalÓ . Here are some numbers to give an approximation of size. ÊI measured all these myself to be consistant, so your mileage may vary. Jeff Reynolds Cup width ÊÊÊ1.12" Cup depth ÊÊÊ1.25" (estimated) Rim width ÊÊÊ0.26" Backbore ÊÊÊÊ.290" Minick L Cup width ÊÊÊ1.10" Cup depth ÊÊÊ1.25" (estimated) Rim width ÊÊÊ0.25" Backbore ÊÊÊÊ.290" Doug Elliott 112MW, J, K8 Cup width ÊÊÊ1.11" Cup depth ÊÊÊ1.25" (estimated) Rim width ÊÊÊ0.22" Backbore ÊÊÊÊ.290" Bach 1 1/4G (from the Selmer website) Cup width ÊÊÊ1.08" Cup depth ÊÊÊ--- Rim width ÊÊÊ0.20" Ê(estimated) Backbore ÊÊÊ.276" These mouthpieces are CNC made for consistancy. ÊThat being said, there are some small variations in the mouthpieces, as is true with most, except maybe Yamaha. Jeff has been playing all of the 111 I had made, and took notes for most of them that he's gone through. ÊHe's picky ÊApparently hand buffing can vary the rim contour a bit, though I'd doubt you could measure it. So, I have 42 here to start. ÊThe retail price is $120. ÊI'll sell them direct for $100, which includes postage and any tax in the US. ÊContact me for international shipping rates. ÊEach mouthpiece has one of Jeff's business cards in it, with his opinions (or blank if it plays in the middle of the bunch). ÊHe did say that they are all very good, but some are a little brighter, some a little darker, and most are in the middle (these have a blank card). ÊI thought selling the consistancy would be better than promoting any variations, but I think it's great that each mouthpiece has been played and approved by Jeff. If you'd like one, email me with your address, how many you'd like, and any particular side of the spectrum you seek in one of these. ÊI'll put one aside and give you an address to mail the $100 check. Or, pay through www.paypal.com, sent to my email address. If you know of a dealer who'd like to carry these, let me know. ÊI have spoken with The Brasswind and several LA stores who are interested. ÊSo they may begin to appear in stores soon. Steve Ferguson Los Angeles 818 951 9598 sftrombone@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:01:40 EST From: T2PHXS@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Cc: T2PHXS@aol.com Subject: Thanks! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Guys ! , Thanks to ALL of you for the Todd Clonz info.. And..... As we say here in Phoenix (Among other things...) CREDO! Mike Brown ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:05:29 -0800 From: alex iles Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: audition ad nauseum Message-ID: <3AB0233B.683557CE@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B577ECD2775E7D7ABD8EA915" "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: What other profession is there where a 20 year old can make $100,000+ and not have finished his education? Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ------------------------------------- Sure, getting a formal education is an asset for just about everyone, but you do see a few youngsters getting paid big bucks in music all the time...don't forget the Backstreet Boys or Brittany Spears...I don't THINK they've finished their education [ahem!]. Three thoughts, though... 1. It is tough for the many of us to accept, but if a player has the requisite talent/musicianship, knows the tunes, and is able to display these things on auditions to committees, he/she will win auditions. The fact that a player has a certain number of years under his/her belt might not make any difference. In fact, it might even hurt him/her. Experience might make a player as musically rigid as inexperience makes another player musically flexible. Having experience, though might mean that you have developed certain non-performing assets for the job like dealing with people, conductors, and trumpet players [note distinctions...;-)]. During a probation period [once you win an audition] these skills can be useful, but many less experienced players already possess many of these skills too. As many listers have noticed in the past, "This ain't rocket science!" 2. Twenty is NOT that young for an orchestral musician to be the right choice in many cases. Many of the musicians/trombonists we admire today began creating and/or performing some of their best work in their early twenties. Some players just "get it" earlier in life, some later. This includes great section and principal playing too. There might also be a statistical reality here... 3. The "best qualified" players for an orchestral position who are thirty-ish and over might already be settled somewhere with nice jobs and family lives, while VERY FEW of the best playing/auditioning 20 year olds have a steady gig or as many life-commitments. The best 30-and-overs therefore might not even apply for a given position. There are 20 year olds out there auditioning, on the other hand,who will tend to represent the BEST players in their [or perhaps any!] age group--with NOTHING TO LOSE. They will show up no matter what the reputation of the orchestra or the audition process. They will play better than the majority of the unemployed or job-hunting 30-and-overs showing up that day to the audition. Very often this process picks a player who, I would wager, will be younger than the average age of the other audition candidates that day. Whew! Done. Now, where'd I put my walker? Alex [still "30-ish" for four more months!] ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:32:26 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Placing the Responsibility Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" One of my students just had her college audition. She's a good kid, but as with most high school students, has her fingers in far too many things - soccer, swimming, concert band, jazz band, etc. A common refrain in lessons is, "I was so tied up...." Try as I might, nothing I did could give her a sense of urgency about the upcoming audition . . . until the week before when she had to chose between a lesson and soccer tryouts. When discussing the choice, we talked about what could be accomplished in one lesson two days before an audition. I was fairly nice about it, but I did say, "There's not much chance in making up for lost practice time in one lesson, is there?" From what I gathered, the audition was passable, although she won't hear back from the college for a few weeks. In our lesson this week, I asked her point blank, "What could I have done as your teacher to better prepare you for your audition?" Blank stare. Long pause. Finally, "I dunno." "Did I show you how to practice the music?" "Yeah." "Did I discuss prioritizing your schedule to allow for practice time?" "uh-huh." "What could I have done differently?" "I duuno." I finally let her off the hook, and didn't pound her into the ground. My question, after this rather long preamble, is this: How do you place responsibility back onto your students? I know that if she had bombed the audition, she would have wanted to find someone other than herself to blame. As a teacher, I tell my students that, "All I can do is show you the way through the forest. If you want to go where I lead, you won't hit as many trees, since I've already hit them. A good teacher teaches from experience, and experience comes from mistakes. I'm a highly experienced teacher (with a big grin)." From the start, I work at making the student understand that lessons aren't a magic wand that will put them 1st Chair All-State. How do YOU place the responsibility on the student? Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:37:58 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Placing the Responsibility Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010314222722.01eb27c8@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:32 PM 3/14/2001 -0600, Chris Waage wrote: One of my students just had her college audition. She's a good kid, but as with most high school students, has her fingers in far too many things - soccer, swimming, concert band, jazz band, etc. How do YOU place the responsibility on the student? I'm not sure you can. Some students have an ethic of self-respect that drives them to take this responsibility. Some don't. I think the key element is the parents. Who was paying for the lessons, and who is going to shell out $30,000 or more for the kid to attend college? I know the answer to that one. If the kid were paying any part of it, she would have taken it a lot more seriously. If the parents aren't concerned about her progress and readiness for the next step, you cannot be expected to be a miracle worker. I don't teach privately, so I can't comment on specific techniques. But I do a team teaching thing with a program targeted at kids from families with limited means. I have never given any of the kids an assignment to practice at home. We put challenging music in front of them. They learn that the only way they can keep up with their peers is to practice. I continue to be blown away at how many of these kids are obviously practicing on their own initiative. Some of them even arrive early at our sessions to get a little extra time with the mentors. The message here is that initiative and self respect are not proportional to the family's financial means. In fact, I suspect quite the opposite is true in many cases. It sounds like you have tried to do the very best for her. Some day she will appreciate that. All the best, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:49:17 -0500 From: "Bart Roberts" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Arbans Book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, Was curious...Tonight one of my students told me that Pepper's told him that the Arbans book was out of print. Could this be true. Any help would be great. Bart ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:14:12 -0600 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans Book Message-ID: <000e01c0abc7$e2221560$dccf4fd8@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a new edition of Arbans that has been revised by Joseph Alessi and Dr. Brian Bowman. It can be ordered from: Encore Music Publishers P.O. Box 786 Troy, Michigan 48099-0786 The website URL is www.encoremupub.com I think that the book costs about $50.00. I was practicing from it earlier today. It seems to be greatly improved from the older Arbans. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Roberts" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: Arbans Book > Dear List, > > Was curious...Tonight one of my students told me that Pepper's told him that > the Arbans book was out of print. Could this be true. > > Any help would be great. > > Bart > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 06:13:46 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans Book Message-ID: <001e01c0ad17$51141ea0$4308fd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Roberts" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:49 AM Subject: Arbans Book > Was curious...Tonight one of my students told me that Pepper's told him that > the Arbans book was out of print. Could this be true. What, after only 150 years? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 06:13:57 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Pledge Mixture for Slide Message-ID: <001f01c0ad17$52e89080$4308fd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Langfur" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Pledge Mixture for Slide > Third, I recently followed Paul Kemp's instructions for polishing the > inside of the outer slide tubes with Brasso, How do you do that? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 06:14:32 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Jeff Albert" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Time (was To Swing... revisited) Message-ID: <002001c0ad17$560e3a80$4308fd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Albert" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: Time (was To Swing... revisited) > Vivaldi should have a groove, Mozart should have a groove, Bruckner > motets should have a groove. Granted these grooves are different from the > Basie band or Tower of Power, but they are still grooves. When I say groove > it is just another way to say good time, and all good music has good time. As Russell Garcia preaches, the 3 main elements in a score (in order of importance) are: 1. Rhythm 2. Melody 3. Harmony and voicing. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:16:57 -0800 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: sabutin@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Atlanta Symphony , Houston Symphony Message-ID: <20010314.221755.-447397.8.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_5316.3b32.5529 >>>I'd be the last one to defend the audition process, which I consider inherently unmusical (antimusical, really), but...<<< ====================== Me too, after several auditions, and having a fine career outside of orchestras--subbing for those guys when they need it, I love the minute musical attention to detail most dedicated orchestral musicians have. ====================== >>>Every symphony orchestra has its own culture, its own style, and only those that live w/in it can REALLY tell the difference...There is a saying, "God lives in the details". ...That's what all this fuss is about........Yeah, it's a lot of fuss over relatively small differences, but that's where it's at...don't forget, these orchestral jobs offer positions of personal security, musical honor, and financial strength that almost no other musical scenes can touch. No wonder the competition is so fierce. To the victors belong the spoils. That's the way it works...<< ================= Yep. You got it right on the money there. Sometime, though, there should be a thread about the players who win a job and never workÊa lick after that. Not major places, smaller markets. I have heard them referred to as "prospectors". Once they strike it rich, they stop digging. Heard the finals once at an orchestra most of you might call major (long ways from where I live). The section joined the auditionee. They sounded so bad next to him the music director asked them not to play anymore. They had the tenure, he had the talent. No, of course he didn't get the job. The players out-ruled the director. Didn't matter. He won a position with a better orchestra. It was pretty obvious he would. Jim Prindle ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:55:17 EST From: Philbne@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Subj: New Jeff Reynolds bass trombone mouthpiece Message-ID: <96.1164daab.27e1cf65@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can attest to the quality of this new mouthpiece. From playing primarily a Minick L (and LS )for a few years, this mouthpiece is very similar but the Reynolds mouthpiece has a touch more core to the sound. For those of you that can't find a used Minick mouthpiece, this is a great alternative. Each of the ones I tried were great. Jeffs notes made the decision that much easier. If you're interested in a new piece of 'vintage' equipment give Steve a call. Phil Keen all over CA. freelance ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1978--