TROMBONE-L Digest 1974 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Trombone stands by Dave Molter 2) RE: Home in the range by "Richardson, Tim" 3) Sock it to me by Dave Molter 4) Anatoly Skobelev by Gabriel Langfur 5) Hats Off to Doug by John 6) OEM case quality by silversonic@att.net 7) King's Brass Bass Trombone Opening by Douglas Yeo 8) Ear protection by Craig Parmerlee 9) Re: Home in the range by Craig Parmerlee 10) Re: Sock it to me by "Tim Dowling" 11) Re: Tombone stand etiquette by "Tim Dowling" 12) Fiddling with the music by Craig Parmerlee 13) Re:OEM case quality by sabutin 14) RE: Trombone stand etiquette by "HICKS, JIM D" 15) Re: OEM case quality by sabutin 16) Re: Ear protection by "Daniel Pliskin" 17) Re: Tombone stand etiquette by "Adrian Drover" 18) Can I suspend tbn list email for two weeks? by "Donna M. Lafferty" 19) Where is the Trombone List Daily Digest? Please help! by Bear Woodson 20) RE: Ear protection by Steve Gamble 21) mouthpiece?? by "Arthur Koolen" 22) Re: Tombone stand etiquette by Candice & Eric Swanson 23) Re: mouthpiece?? by Candice & Eric Swanson 24) Re: mouthpiece?? by "Michael Aloisi" 25) Re: Tombone stand etiquette by TonyC789@aol.com 26) more etiquette by "David Pozos" 27) Re: Trombone stand etiquette by "Chuck De Paolo" 28) Re: more etiquette by "Gary D. Maxwell" 29) RE: more etiquette by Steve Gamble 30) Re: Trombone stand etiquette by "Gary D. Maxwell" 31) Re: Tombone stand etiquette by "Daniel Pliskin" 32) Re: mouthpiece?? by "Chris Waage" 33) Conn 52H by Dave Molter 34) RE: Tombone stand etiquette by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 35) Re: more etiquette by "Paul Hill" 36) Re: more etiquette by "Gary D. Maxwell" 37) Re: more etiquette by Gabriel Langfur 38) Re: Conn 52H by "Chuck De Paolo" 39) Re: more etiquette by David Buckley 40) Re: IGSOY.... by "Dale J. Cruse" 41) Re: mouthpiece?? by "Dick Sleeman" 42) Re: more etiquette by "Adrian Drover" 43) Re: IGIOY.... by "Dick Sleeman" 44) Updated Trombone-L Guidelines - Please Read by Listmonitor Trombone-L 45) Re: more etiquette by "Hal Starkey" 46) Re: Ophicleide sold by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 47) Re: more etiquette by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 48) Re: Ear protection by "Jim Dexter" 49) Re: more etiquette by David Burch 50) Re: more etiquette by Candice & Eric Swanson 51) Tombone stand horror stories by PyroGuy211@aol.com 52) Re: Tombone stand horror stories by Craig Parmerlee 53) Schilke 58 for sale by Andrew Michael 54) 36B on ebay by "Joseph Sellmansberger" 55) Re: Tombone stand horror stories by "Adrian Drover" 56) RE: circus bands by Craig Parmerlee 57) BACH 50BO2 for sale by "John McVey" 58) Sabutin in Washington by "John McVey" 59) Re: Sabutin in Washington by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 60) Re: Ear protection by sabutin 61) Re: mouthpiece?? by "Art Triggs" 62) two bass trombones for sale by chardy@totcon.com 63) RE: mouthpiece?? by "Gary Greenhoe" 64) Re: Tombone stand horror stories by Gabriel Langfur 65) Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) by sabutin 66) Re: Trombone stand horror stories by JFBermann@aol.com 67) Re: Schilke 58 for sale by "Steve Beck" 68) Looking for Jon Anderson by "Jerry Hou" 69) Re: Schilke 58 for sale by David Burch 70) Re: mouthpiece! by "Dick Sleeman" 71) Re: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) by "Dilshad Kasmani" 72) Little known solos by Douglas Yeo 73) Re: Trombone stand horror stories by Gabriel Langfur 74) RE: mouthpiece! by "Gary Greenhoe" 75) Fwd: Re: Bass Trombone Stand by Earl Needham 76) Re: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) by sabutin 77) Re: Fwd: Re: Bass Trombone Stand by Craig Parmerlee 78) Re: Trombone stand horror stories by Craig Parmerlee 79) wisdom teeth removal by Chris Lee 80) Re: wisdom teeth removal by szopinsk 81) Re: wisdom teeth removal by Chris Waage 82) Re: wisdom teeth removal by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 83) Re: Tombone stands by David Leep 84) Re: wisdom teeth removal by Gabriel Langfur 85) Re: Tombone stands by "Tom Izzo" 86) Re: wisdom teeth removal by "Paul Hill" 87) Re: Tombone stands by Craig Parmerlee 88) Re: wisdom teeth removal by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 89) Robert Sanders by "Brad Howland" 90) Re: Shires horn et al by "Jeff Albert" 91) Re: wisdom teeth removal by "Jeff Albert" 92) Re: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) by Tbcwes@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:29:00 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: craig@acticalc.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Trombone stands Message-ID: <381934780.984144540963.JavaMail.root@web622-wrb.mail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Parmarleee asked about stand usage in orchestras. I recently joined an orchestra and was the only one to bring and use a stand. The principal alternately held her horn, placed it in her lap or laid it on the floor! The bass bonist laid his on the floor -- on the slide. I can't say why. There was plenty of room both beside and behind our chairs. We were in the back row, so I don't think anyone in the audience would have noticed my black UMI stand. When I play Gilbert & Sullivan and shows, the entire section -- different players from the orchestra -- brings and uses stands, even though pit seating is tight. In my wind ensemble, almost all of the players in the seven-man section bring stands, but I don't because my horn is seldom down for more than a few bars. When I play bass bone in brass band, I use my stand all the time -- setting the horn down between numbers to change music. This helps to give my wrist a wrest from the double valve weight. I haven't seen any pro orchetras lately, so I don't know the protocol -- if there is any. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:32:49 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'Dave Molter'" , trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Home in the range Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BC1@LEE2> You should have been at tuba-euph fest. Euphs don't play high, near as I can tell, but the tubas! Some of those guys could squeak and squeal. One of them sounded just like a french horn. I didn't really understand the point of it, I guess I applaud achievement in any direction, but to spend $20k or so on a 6/4 CC then play it in the stratosphere seems a little silly. (kind of like shelling out thousands for a guitar with a deep resonant tone then playing up on the neck all night.) yours, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Molter [SMTP:kingbone@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:16 AM > To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Subject: Home in the range > > OK, all I have to say about the range thing on bass trombone is this: when > I > hear a bass trombonists noodling around, 9 times out of 10 they're trying > to > prove how high they can play. Conversely, the tenor noodlers I know play > below the staff about 75% of the time. > > Dave Molter > Bass & Tenor: he's two, two, two players in one (Certs reference) > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:33:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Sock it to me Message-ID: <382059966.984144800351.JavaMail.root@web421-wrb> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Scott wrote: The only thing I can think of that would preclude using a trombone stand on an orchestra gig, is if your stand looked really bad, ie: a ratty old sweat sock on the top portion! -- Would not a black sock be required for a symphony gig? Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:37:30 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Anatoly Skobelev Message-ID: <20010309133730.81096.qmail@web10311.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A friend and colleague here in Boston is trying to reestablish contact with Russian trombonist Anatoly Skobelev. Does anyone have any information? Please reply offlist. Thanks, Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 21:38:24 -0800 From: John To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Hats Off to Doug Message-ID: <3AA86C4B.99A54F93@teleport.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Where did the baroque oboe get it's ballisters? .....from elephant tusks? Sounds like the Rudyard Kipling "Just So Stories". Brilliant......thanks, Ned RagaŽt ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:16:25 +0000 From: silversonic@att.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu (Trombone List) Subject: OEM case quality Message-ID: <20010309141626.SNKD20557.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hello all: I posted this question to the OTJ forum, but I know that many of you don't go there, and I'm REALLY interested in your thoughts. There has been some discussion recently about cases. I've quite recently become mystefied with the quality, or lack thereof of the cases that manufacturers are supplying with their instruments. A friend just bought a new professional instrument, and the case seems to afford minimal protection at best for the trombone. He has, therefore, gone and ordered a new SKB flight case to protect his new investment. On the other side of things, I have seen student instruments with cases that afford excellent protection. A "case-in-point" (NO pun intended!)... I teach middle school band, and a number of my students have the BACH student horn that comes in the form-fitted black plastic case. We got back from a trip out to do a concert and were unloading at our school. One trombone player slipped on some ice and the horn literally flew 10 feet crashing to the pavement from a height of 5 feet or so. Upon opening the case, the horn was not even scratched! If this had been my friends new pro horn, it would most certainly have incurred substantial damage. WHY?!!!? It seems logical (...which is probably why the corporate world would never adopt this line of thought!) that a manufacturer would go to great lengths to protect their BEST instruments... yet the student horns get the better cases. Now I know the mentality of creating student instruments/cases that can withstand the abuse of youngsters... but why do we allow them compromise the quality of the cases?!? Of course, there ARE manufactirers who supply good cases too... but many do not. This is just something that has been eating at me for a week or so... as I too order an SKB flight case to protect my instrument. I'll be interested to read your thoughts... Peace, Tom Sousa Rochester, NY ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:29:41 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: King's Brass Bass Trombone Opening Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I have just received a notice from Tim Zimmerman, Director of "The King's Brass", a Christian touring brass group. The group is looking for a bass trombone player for the upcoming 2001-02 tours. Some general information is below, if interested, contact Tim Zimmerman directly. I've known several people who have done this in the past (some list members as well). -Doug Yeo ========== THE 2001-2002 KING'S BRASS AUDITION BASS TROMBONE The King's Brass -- three trumpets, three trombones, a tuba, keyboards and percussion -- "the best in brass." From New York to Los Angeles, from Chicago to Philadelphia, from Washington, DC to Orlando, -- this twenty-third summer tour will lead audiences around the country in concerts of worship and praise. The group is now looking for a bass trombone player who has a deep commitment to Jesus Christ. The ten-week tour will extend from June 1 through August 12, 2001, preceded by four days of rehearsals in Winona Lake, IN. This year the tour will also include ten days in South America, November 16-26, 2001, and seventeen days in Florida from January 4-20, 2002. The group will also play two Christmas weekends on December 9 & 16, 2001. Music will be sent to each player in May so that there will be plenty of time to learn and memorize the program. All travel, meals, and accommodations will be provided by The King's Brass after members have arrived in Winona Lake. Each new player will receive $250.00 a week for ten weeks with returning players receiving an additional $50.00 per week for each completed summer tour. Applications will be accepted until April 15, 2001 and should include a brief resume, audition tape, and three references with phone numbers (to include local pastor). 2001-2002 King's Brass members will be notified by April 20. Please forward a solo piece, etude, excerpt, etc., of contrasting styles (no longer than ten minutes) to Tim Zimmerman, Box 555, Winona Lake, IN 46590. It will be acceptable to resubmit tapes from past King's Brass auditions. For more information, please look at the group's web site at www.kingsbrass.org or call Tim Zimmerman at (219) 625-5324. Tim Zimmerman The King's Brass Box 555 Winona Lake, IN 46590 219-625-5324 219-625-5326-fax Tzimmerman1@cs.com www.kingsbrass.org ===================== ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:19:53 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Ear protection Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010309084858.01eddd20@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There was some discussion about ear protection a few weeks ago. This is something in which I'm very interested -- I imagine we all should be. I've been doing a little research and have formed some opinions. The high end product is custom-made ear plus using the E.A.R. sound filters. The plugs insert into the ear much like a hearing aid. On the outside of the plug, you snap one of three filters that provide differing decibels of sound reduction. The claim is that the sound is reduced uniformly across the spectrum giving a natural sound. I had a set of these made by an audiologist. I went with their least restrictive filter: -9 db. They are comfortable and I believe their claim about the uniform response. I think they would be excellent for working in a very noisy environment, but I don't find them suitable at all for playing music -- at least not in my situations. If I were in a really loud rock band and I had a good monitor right in front of me, they would probably be perfect. The problem is that, even with the least restrictive filter, they limit too much sound. Actually -9 db would probably be an ideal amount for a pianist, percussionist, bassist -- anybody but a wind player. With brass, a lot of what we "hear" is waves that are carried through the jawbone and skull bones. These plugs shift too much of the sound to that internal stuff. Maybe this is something one could get used to, but I don't care for it. My advice is to save the 150 bucks. There are better choices. (There is one neat outcome. With these plugs in, you can hear the quality of your buzz more clearly. That is useful in a practice setting.) The same company (E.A.R.) makes a set of off-the-shelf plugs called ER-20. They are rated at -12 db. They don't seem to share any technology with the custom plugs but the manufacturer makes the same claim about the fidelity of the sound spectrum. They look a lot like some of the rubber plugs you can buy at the drug or hardware store. I like these plugs. I think their claim of full spectrum sound is accurate. With the plugs inserted as designed, you have the same problem as with the custom plugs -- too much of the sound coming through the skull. However, unlike the custom plugs, you can partially insert these plugs. By doing that, you can allow a little more of the airborne sound to enter the ear. That works for me. I'd definitely recommend this. You can order these for $20 at http://www.hearnet.com/shop/index.shtml. I've tried lots of stuff from the drug store. I don't care for the foam inserts because they don't give even response and you have no control over the attenuation. A product I found to work surprisingly well is called Aquasoft from Howard Leight. A package of 6 silicone blobs is just a few bucks. This product is designed to be worn on the outer ear rather than being inserted into the ear canal. When fully covering the ear opening, these are rated at -21 db, which I think is too much. But it is easy to wear this in a way that allows a little sound to enter normally. I think that works really well and the price is right. I tend to put them on loosely at first. As your body heat warms them, it is easier to give them a tighter fit. If you find the noise level increasing as the ensemble gets going, simply push them in a little more snuggly. You can literally make that adjustment during a one measure rest. Any other thoughts out there? Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:33:15 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Home in the range Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010309092142.01ec5d90@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:16 AM 3/8/2001 -0500, Dave Molter wrote: OK, all I have to say about the range thing on bass trombone is this: when I hear a bass trombonists noodling around, 9 times out of 10 they're trying to prove how high they can play. Conversely, the tenor noodlers I know play below the staff about 75% of the time. Ain't it the truth. One reason is because it is hard to noodle in the low register. It is one thing to be comfortable playing by ear above middle C, which requires working your right hand through 4 slide positions. It is another thing altogether to play by ear below the bass clef where you must use all the hand slide positions while also operating a couple of valves. Most bass players have memorized the fingerings based on the black spots on the music stand. That is OK for a beginner, but I highly recommend regular noodling in the low register in order to really gain command of the instrument. Whereas etude books numb the brain, this noodling exercise energizes the brain, IMHO. Where to start? Take your favorite standard and play it (without using the music) an octave lower than usual, then a seventh or a 9th, or some other interval that departs from the familiar slide pattern. Once you feel good about that, add some improvised licks that require using both valves plus the slide. This is challenging practice, but I find it very rewarding. Just my opinion. Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:38:55 +0100 From: "Tim Dowling" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sock it to me Message-ID: <000e01c0a8a6$abbe8040$fb0540d4@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Molter" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 2:33 PM Subject: Sock it to me > > -- Would not a black sock be required for a symphony gig? Normally I need two...one left, one right. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:48:55 +0100 From: "Tim Dowling" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <002601c0a8a8$112e6840$fb0540d4@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:39 PM Subject: Tombone stand etiquette > It seems that stands are not popular in orchestra sections. Is there some > unwritten rule against using stands during an orchestra concert? Is this > considered unprofessional or untidy on the stage? > > Just wondering. > Craig > > I did know some older colleagues who didn't think you should use a stand in "concerts". It's an aesthetic consideration. Player and instrument "as one". I don't mind one way or the other. I'll use a stand if I need to. I would never put it on the floor as I saw the LSO section do once. One thing that does irritate me though is leaving the trombone on the stand while taking the applause. I definitely think you should hold the trombone while standing for the conductor's entrance and during the applause and not use the applause as an opportunity to fiddle with your music or close the folder. Tim Dowling Residentie Orchestra The Hague ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:12:56 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fiddling with the music Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010309100008.01eaae00@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed !!!!!! RANT ALERT --- RUN FOR COVER !!!!!!! At 03:48 PM 3/9/2001 +0100, Tim Dowling wrote: I definitely think you should hold the trombone while standing for the conductor's entrance and during the applause Excellent point. I never thought about that. and not use the applause as an opportunity to fiddle with your music or close the folder. Ouch. You've touched on my biggest pet peeve. It is bad enough when people fiddle with the music when the audience is trying to show their appreciation. But I nearly go postal when people start shuffling their music a millisecond after they have played their last bar in a selection. Often times many of the voices drop out for a final pensive 8 or 20 bars. Just when the composer was looking for a quiet, thoughtful moment, you have bozos waving and crackling paper all over the stage. Heck, why not pop open a beer if you have a few minutes before your next passage? Or maybe bring in a portable TV or catch up on the calisthenics you missed this morning. It is one thing if you segue right into another movement, but in 99% of the cases, there will be a minute or so before the next piece to sort out the music. That is more than enough time to turn the page if you have organized your music before the concert. It seems to me that this stage demeanor separates the amateurs from the professionals more clearly than the playing in many cases. That is to say, the average audience member might have a hard time spotting the fine musical nuances that the professional might bring, but everyone can see and hear that darned paper. Thanks for listening, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:17:04 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re:OEM case quality Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Status: U Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:16:25 +0000 Reply-To: silversonic@att.net Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu From: silversonic@att.net To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: OEM case quality X-To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu (Trombone List) X-Authenticated-Sender: silversonic@att.net Hello all: I posted this question to the OTJ forum, but I know that many of you don't go there, and I'm REALLY interested in your thoughts. There has been some discussion recently about cases. I've quite recently become mystefied with the quality, or lack thereof of the cases that manufacturers are supplying with their instruments. A friend just bought a new professional instrument, and the case seems to afford minimal protection at best for the trombone. He has, therefore, gone and ordered a new SKB flight case to protect his new investment. On the other side of things, I have seen student instruments with cases that afford excellent protection. A "case-in-point" (NO pun intended!)... I teach middle school band, and a number of my students have the BACH student horn that comes in the form-fitted black plastic case. We got back from a trip out to do a concert and were unloading at our school. One trombone player slipped on some ice and the horn literally flew 10 feet crashing to the pavement from a height of 5 feet or so. Upon opening the case, the horn was not even scratched! If this had been my friends new pro horn, it would most certainly have incurred substantial damage. WHY?!!!? It seems logical (...which is probably why the corporate world would never adopt this line of thought!) that a manufacturer would go to great lengths to protect their BEST instruments... yet the student horns get the better cases. Now I know the mentality of creating student instruments/cases that can withstand the abuse of youngsters... but why do we allow them compromise the quality of the cases?!? Of course, there ARE manufactirers who supply good cases too... but many do not. This is just something that has been eating at me for a week or so... as I too order an SKB flight case to protect my instrument. I'll be interested to read your thoughts... Peace, Tom Sousa Rochester, NY ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:22:31 -0500 From: "HICKS, JIM D" To: "'Craig Parmerlee'" , trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Trombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <200103091526.JAA11242@po.missouri.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Craig, et. al.; Our trombone section had some sort of "agreement" with a past conductor and started this "no bone stand" practice. Secondly, the stage is frigid! This way they kept their horns warm throughout the concert. It still doesn't make sense to me. I think the conductor was worried about extra stuff falling over or scratchy sounds on the floor. Our 3 guys just got into the habit of no stands and maintain that habit. BTW - they also know the secret handshake. The directions are in small print at the bottom of their contracts. I saw a copy of their contracts, but that page was removed of course and replaced with a "Page Left Blank" notice. Maybe all those government grants have something to do with it? Jim Hicks -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [mailto:craig@acticalc.com] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:19 PM To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette At 06:20 PM 3/8/2001 -0500, Paul D. Kemp Jr. wrote: >To get back to Craig's question, if there's any flack about using >a trombone stand, (and there shouldn't be, as it's a part of your equipment, >just like a mouthpiece or an F-attachment) kindly mention to the orchestra >management that if your slide is damaged because of not being able to use a >trombone stand, you'll be happy to send them the repair bill. I'm sure that >it won't be such a big deal after that. I've never heard anyone complain about it. It just seems like such a no-brainer to use one that when I see professional symphony players not using one, I think maybe I don't know the secret handshake. Thanks, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:37:25 -0500 From: sabutin To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: OEM case quality Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sorry...here's what I meant to send... =================== Hello all: I posted this question to the OTJ forum, but I know that many of you don't go there, and I'm REALLY interested in your thoughts. There has been some discussion recently about cases. I've quite recently become mystefied with the quality, or lack thereof of the cases that manufacturers are supplying with their instruments. A friend just bought a new professional instrument, and the case seems to afford minimal protection at best for the trombone. He has, therefore, gone and ordered a new SKB flight case to protect his new investment. On the other side of things, I have seen student instruments with cases that afford excellent protection. A "case-in-point" (NO pun intended!)... I teach middle school band, and a number of my students have the BACH student horn that comes in the form-fitted black plastic case. We got back from a trip out to do a concert and were unloading at our school. One trombone player slipped on some ice and the horn literally flew 10 feet crashing to the pavement from a height of 5 feet or so. Upon opening the case, the horn was not even scratched! If this had been my friends new pro horn, it would most certainly have incurred substantial damage. WHY?!!!? ======================= The kid was just lucky. Most hard case damage happens from the inertia of the horn inside the case as it strikes the case walls. Only a custom fitted foam interior (a la camera cases) will prevent this kind of damage. The light fiberglass student cases are flimsy, and will not protect the horn from weight or puncture damage from w/out. If the student horn survived the impact, it's probably because the bell is constructed to survive mistreatment rather than to resonate. Very thick, HEAVILY braced... Later... S. ============================ It seems logical (...which is probably why the corporate world would never adopt this line of thought!) that a manufacturer would go to great lengths to protect their BEST instruments... yet the student horns get the better cases. Now I know the mentality of creating student instruments/cases that can withstand the abuse of youngsters... but why do we allow them compromise the quality of the cases?!? Of course, there ARE manufactirers who supply good cases too... but many do not. This is just something that has been eating at me for a week or so... as I too order an SKB flight case to protect my instrument. I'll be interested to read your thoughts... Peace, Tom Sousa Rochester, NY ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:55:48 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Ear protection Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I?ve always found a rolled up piece of bar napkin to work the best, when I got out to hear music. You can vary the attenuation, depending on how much of the napkin you use and the frequency response if very flat. One napkin will make earplugs for several people, so you can give some to the people you?re with. They?re free and they?re available at most venues. In fact, the only problem with it is that they show, as whites spot in your ears. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:15:17 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <006701c0a8b4$3a643800$7196fc3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Dowling" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette > One thing that does irritate me though is leaving the trombone on the > stand while taking the applause. Sometimes it's necessary, when you need to scratch your nose and genitalia at the same time. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:31:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Donna M. Lafferty" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Can I suspend tbn list email for two weeks? Message-ID: <20010309163139.19942.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi. Sorry to flood the list with this, but I don't know any other way to do it. How would I suspend receiving trombone list email for two weeks? I'm going on vacation and won't be able to check email for quite some time. Don't want to come home and not be able to open my email because it's too full. Thanks! Donna Lafferty PS-mandatory trombone content: I'm bringing my King 3B with me. Don't leave home without it! ===== Donna M. Lafferty, Trombone donna_lafferty@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/bloomington_brass/ http://www.geocities.com/bquintet/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:52:23 -0700 From: Bear Woodson To: Trombone List Monitor Cc: Trombone List Monitor , Trombone List Subject: Where is the Trombone List Daily Digest? Please help! Message-ID: <3AA90A48.32630CB4@home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Trombone List and Trombone List Monitors. I have not received the Trombone List since Sunday, March 4th, 2001. Are you Off-Line, or have I been Unsubscribed? I used to be receiving the Trombone List Daily Digest at my Old E-Mail Address, which is no longer working: "Bear Woodson" I've tried SEVERAL TIMES to Subscribe to my New E-Mail Address, but I am still receiving NOTHING! PLEASE Subscribe me to the Trombone List Daily Digest at my New E-Mail Address: "Bear Woodson" How many request do I need to send, before this activates? I find this very frustrating. Today is Friday, March 9th, 2001, and this is another attempt to get the Trombone List Daily Digest Subscribed to my New E-Mail Address. Bear Woodson doctoral student composer at the University of Arizona Tucson, Arizona, USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:40:44 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Ear protection Message-ID: <01C0A8E9.FB2F47C0.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I bought a pair of ER 20 earplugs after the last trombone list ear protection discussion. For the price, they are the best things I've tried. There is still a little of that annoying earplug trait of making your voice and playing sound loud inside your head, but it is the least of any of the off the shelf plugs that I have tried. I found a pair for $9.74 plus shipping at musiciansfriend.com. Steve Gamble -----Original Message----- From: Craig Parmerlee [SMTP:craig@acticalc.com] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:20 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Ear protection There was some discussion about ear protection a few weeks ago. This is something in which I'm very interested -- I imagine we all should be. I've been doing a little research and have formed some opinions. The high end product is custom-made ear plus using the E.A.R. sound filters. The plugs insert into the ear much like a hearing aid. On the outside of the plug, you snap one of three filters that provide differing decibels of sound reduction. The claim is that the sound is reduced uniformly across the spectrum giving a natural sound. I had a set of these made by an audiologist. I went with their least restrictive filter: -9 db. They are comfortable and I believe their claim about the uniform response. I think they would be excellent for working in a very noisy environment, but I don't find them suitable at all for playing music -- at least not in my situations. If I were in a really loud rock band and I had a good monitor right in front of me, they would probably be perfect. The problem is that, even with the least restrictive filter, they limit too much sound. Actually -9 db would probably be an ideal amount for a pianist, percussionist, bassist -- anybody but a wind player. With brass, a lot of what we "hear" is waves that are carried through the jawbone and skull bones. These plugs shift too much of the sound to that internal stuff. Maybe this is something one could get used to, but I don't care for it. My advice is to save the 150 bucks. There are better choices. (There is one neat outcome. With these plugs in, you can hear the quality of your buzz more clearly. That is useful in a practice setting.) The same company (E.A.R.) makes a set of off-the-shelf plugs called ER-20. They are rated at -12 db. They don't seem to share any technology with the custom plugs but the manufacturer makes the same claim about the fidelity of the sound spectrum. They look a lot like some of the rubber plugs you can buy at the drug or hardware store. I like these plugs. I think their claim of full spectrum sound is accurate. With the plugs inserted as designed, you have the same problem as with the custom plugs -- too much of the sound coming through the skull. However, unlike the custom plugs, you can partially insert these plugs. By doing that, you can allow a little more of the airborne sound to enter the ear. That works for me. I'd definitely recommend this. You can order these for $20 at http://www.hearnet.com/shop/index.shtml. I've tried lots of stuff from the drug store. I don't care for the foam inserts because they don't give even response and you have no control over the attenuation. A product I found to work surprisingly well is called Aquasoft from Howard Leight. A package of 6 silicone blobs is just a few bucks. This product is designed to be worn on the outer ear rather than being inserted into the ear canal. When fully covering the ear opening, these are rated at -21 db, which I think is too much. But it is easy to wear this in a way that allows a little sound to enter normally. I think that works really well and the price is right. I tend to put them on loosely at first. As your body heat warms them, it is easier to give them a tighter fit. If you find the noise level increasing as the ensemble gets going, simply push them in a little more snuggly. You can literally make that adjustment during a one measure rest. Any other thoughts out there? Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:52:33 +0100 From: "Arthur Koolen" To: Subject: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, in my amateur militairy band the euphonium players have got new instruments. Large bore Bessons. The old instruments were small bore Yamaha's. They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL and the low part players Denis Wick 5ABL. I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. Am I right? I know that Bach has a very nice site where their mouthpiece-code is explained. Does Denis Wick also have such a site? Greetings Arthur Koolen ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:01:05 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <3AA90C50.5DB3634F@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: > .........I preach NEVER rest your horn on the slide, > because over time it will bow your slide tubes like a banana--especially > bass trombonists, with the additional weight in the bell section. Paul, Well said. This is one of my pet peeves too. Eric ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:10:00 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: <3AA90E68.86D793AB@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arthur Koolen wrote: > Hello list, > > in my amateur militairy band the euphonium players have got new instruments. > Large bore Bessons. The old instruments were small bore Yamaha's. > They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL and > the low part players > Denis Wick 5ABL. > I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. > Am I right? Arthur, The 4AL is larger than the 5ABL as far as I know. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:18:21 -0500 From: "Michael Aloisi" To: Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hickey's has a good mouthpiece comparison chart at: http://www.hickeys.com/cgi/display.cgi?cart_id=&page=mpcecomp.htm -Mike Aloisi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Koolen" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: mouthpiece?? > Hello list, > > in my amateur militairy band the euphonium players have got new instruments. > Large bore Bessons. The old instruments were small bore Yamaha's. > They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL and > the low part players > Denis Wick 5ABL. > I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. > Am I right? > > I know that Bach has a very nice site where their mouthpiece-code is > explained. > Does Denis Wick also have such a site? > > Greetings > > Arthur Koolen > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:21:07 EST From: TonyC789@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <43.11bc1866.27da7913@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Opinion - Use it any time you darn well please. Who cares, really? I go to a concert to hear and see live music. What does it REALLY matter if the trombone guys (GALS!) use a stand? Tony Clements ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:58:07 -0600 From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: more etiquette Message-ID: <001901c0a8ca$e11231a0$8fc2180a@davidpoz.xal.megared.net.mx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now that we«ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have another one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad or ugly? Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:12:46 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Trombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <00f101c0a8cc$eca672e0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, so I'm the contrarian. I used to use a trombone stand in orchestral rehearsals only, NEVER in performace. And then it was only so I could leave the horn on stage during breaks, not to stow it during the rehearsal, even if I were not playing. I think an orchestra concert's too formal a place for a trombone stand. Call me crazy. I just lay the horn across my lap or hold it upright when resting, which is of course most of the time. There's just something about a trombone stand in the orchestra that doesn't seem right for some reason. I do use it on big band jobs, and concert band gigs where we will be away from the band stand during the performance. If we're to just go in, sit down, play and leave, then I don't bother with the stand, even if it's in my bag, which is always -- it's just not necessary. FWIW... ---Chuck ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:16:20 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: dpozos@xal.megared.net.mx Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <3AA92C04.6A6A272B@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Pozos wrote: > > Now that we«ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have another > one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad or ugly? > Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. =========================================================================== Personally, I have NO PROBLEM with reading while at a rehearsal. Sometimes the conductor has not done his/her homework. It seems ludicrous to have to sit through a string piece and not have something to do. There is almost a tradition, at least what I have observed through the years, that trombonists are the 'bad' boys in the orchestra, probably brought on by often having no part to play. Busy hands you know. There are also many pieces that are made up of extended trombone rests. Personally, in pieces like this I have a hard time NOT counting measures, because of a constant fear of coming in wrong when the time comes about, but I don't have a problem with anyone else grabbing their favorite prose and having at it. I really think this question has to do with the way the situation is handled individually. FWIW All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > > David Pozos > Primer Tromb—n > Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa > www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:12:21 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'dpozos@xal.megared.net.mx'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: more etiquette Message-ID: <01C0A8F6.C752FDE0.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has never been a problem here. Steve Gamble Tucson Symphony -----Original Message----- From: David Pozos [SMTP:dpozos@xal.megared.net.mx] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 11:58 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: more etiquette Now that we?ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have another one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad or ugly? Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. David Pozos Primer Trombon Orquesta Sinfonica de Xalapa www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:27:18 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: Chuck De Paolo Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombone stand etiquette Message-ID: <3AA92E96.AA8513F8@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck De Paolo wrote: > There's just something about > a trombone stand in the orchestra that doesn't seem right for some reason. > I do use it on big band jobs, and concert band gigs where we will be away > from the band stand during the performance. ===================================================================== To also be a bit contrary, what makes a big band or concert band concert different? I also leave the band stand, "stage", during a the course of a symphony concert. It's called intermission. I certainly have less fear leaving my instrument unattended in a concert hall than I do on a band set at the country club, or the park band stand. All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:24:38 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tombone stand etiquette Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Well said. This is one of my pet peeves too. Do we all have a lot of pet peeves, here, or what? DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:36:03 -0500 From: "Chris Waage" To: Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: <200103091436.AA214368476@trombone.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii With Bach and Wick mouthpieces, the smaller the number, the larger the mouthpiece. With Schilke andYamaha mouthpeices, the larger the number, the larger the mouthpiece. Benge, Blessing and several others follow the Bach scheme. Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arthur Koolen" >To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:52 PM >Subject: mouthpiece?? > > >> Hello list, >> >> in my amateur militairy band the euphonium players have got new >instruments. >> Large bore Bessons. The old instruments were small bore Yamaha's. >> They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL >and >> the low part players >> Denis Wick 5ABL. >> I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. >> Am I right? >> >> I know that Bach has a very nice site where their mouthpiece-code is >> explained. >> Does Denis Wick also have such a site? >> >> Greetings >> >> Arthur Koolen >> >> > -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org -- ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:48:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Conn 52H Message-ID: <383429887.984167332242.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any played the new Conn 52H (dual-bore slide on a .547 bore)? Is this a decent "step up" for a student now on a 3B? How does it compare to an 88H? Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:47:12 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Tombone stand etiquette Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Do we all have a lot of pet peeves, here, or what? > It kind of looks that way, doesn't it. Odd when you think of it. Peeves are not nearly as cute as, say, poodles or kittens. They are not at all playful. Neither do they contribute to a tranquil attitude, like fish do. And yet they are as demanding of attention as any dog and much harder to housebreak. They are truly most unsatisfactory pets. I would say that I can't understand why people keep them around, but alas I have some trouble getting rid of mine. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 8guion@jmls.edu Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:50:18 -0900 From: "Paul Hill" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <001601c0a8da$8d9716c0$75dbfea9@navak-n01n> Our Music Director is (normally) very considerate of the Tbn's and Tubist when scheduling rehearsals but since the Tbn section is 3/4 of our Tbn Quartet, we frequently steal away during unscheduled down time to read through some of our material, with the Tubist on euphonium (I keep several quartets in my bag for this express purpose). I, too, am a world-class rest-counter! I have to try NOT to count! Sometimes, though, isn't it relaxing to just sit back and listen to some really great music (even though we don't get to play)? It has somehow evolved that I am the designated rest-counter...probably since I am the oldest member of the section and not real interested in what the Female kindling scratchers are doing after rehearsal. Anyway, aren't "false horn raises" fun! Or, waiting until the last possible moment to raise my horn before an entrance! Bass Trombonists are such meanies! Best Regards, Paul ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:44:12 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: pdhill@email.msn.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <3AA94EAC.9C588B81@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Hill wrote: > Bass Trombonists are such meanies! ===================================== I like meanie. It is sure better than some of the names I've been called! Gary Maxwell ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:47:20 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <20010309214720.22359.qmail@web10315.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've had a conductor ask people to please be more discreet about reading during rehearsals because he found it distracting. Other than that, it's never been a problem. I think it's ugly if it detracts in any way from your concentration. In most situations, I'll only take out a magazine in a tacet movement. Gabe --- David Pozos wrote: > Now that we´ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have > another > one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad > or ugly? > Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. > > David Pozos > Primer Trombón > Orquesta Sinfónica de Xalapa > www.osx.org.mx > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:12:10 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Conn 52H Message-ID: <024b01c0a8e5$fcf55e90$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave et al, The 52H is in Conn's intermediate "Artist" line ("Director" is the student line). They call it a "Basic Pro" horn. The 88H by comparison is in the professional "Connstellation" line. I think calling the 52H a pro horn is a stretch. If you think of the word "pro" in the "going towards" or "progressing" sense, then maybe it could justified (anyone here achieve "pro-marksman" in Boy Scouts? -- same idea). It's kind of like a dual bore Bach TB-200/Mercedes/Omega except, IMO, a lot nicer. It's certainly lighter, has an easier to operate trigger, and in my experience better slide action. I have one of these on the wall. The bell section kind of looks like a traditional 88H, with a few minor geometric differences. The slide is a 525/547 dual bore as you mention, and features a finger ring for those with smaller hands. The horn is designed for and targeted at those who would like to play a large bore horn, but really should be using a medium bore model. High school and many middle school players for instance. Here are Conn's words: Artist, .547" (13.89mm) bore with F attachment, 8-5/8" (219mm) rose brass bell, .525"/.547" (13.34/13.89mm) dual bore slide, lacquer finish, 6-1/2ALS tenor shank mouthpiece, woodshell case. Helps students make a smooth transition to a larger symphonic trombone. Provides larger sound needed in concert band & orchestra while allowing for a true "lead" sound in jazz ensembles. Full warranty. Options: Black nylon tenor trombone gig bag with shoulder strap Bright silver plated finish. If you want to see a photo of this horn, go to this location: http://www.unitedmusical.com/default.htm Click C.G.Conn > Trombones > 52H HTH (please quote this message if you reply) In Music, ---Chuck General Manager & Webmaster Hickey's Music Center 104 Adams Street Ithaca, NY 14850 607.272.8262 (Phone) 607.272.2203 (Fax) chuck@hickeys.com (E-Mail) http://www.hickeys.com (Website) http://www.weather.com/weather/us/zips/14850.html (Weather) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Molter" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Conn 52H > Any played the new Conn 52H (dual-bore slide on a .547 bore)? Is this a > decent "step up" for a student now on a 3B? How does it compare to an 88H? > > Dave Molter > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:19:51 -0500 From: David Buckley To: glangfur@yahoo.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <3AA95707.24D7944B@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What about reading on jobs which is common in pit bands? The last opera I was at we sat in the balcony so could see my trombone buddies engrossed in their books. This has a long tradition according to a book I have somewhere around which is a collection of columns written by Berlioz about the goings on in the pit at the Paris Opera -card games, fights, etc. If you are going to read at an orvhestra concert you would have to be pretty discreet. Pete Sullivan, principal at Pittsburgh and formerly Montreal, told a clinic at the ITF in Potsdam that he either read or did a crossword while waiting to come in in Bolero. Said it cut down the tension. Dave. Gabriel Langfur wrote: > I've had a conductor ask people to please be more discreet about > reading during rehearsals because he found it distracting. Other than > that, it's never been a problem. > > I think it's ugly if it detracts in any way from your concentration. In > most situations, I'll only take out a magazine in a tacet movement. > > Gabe > > --- David Pozos wrote: > > Now that we«ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have > > another > > one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad > > or ugly? > > Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. > > > > David Pozos > > Primer Tromb—n > > Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa > > www.osx.org.mx > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:27:32 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Dale J. Cruse" To: Subject: Re: IGSOY.... Message-ID: <3AA98304.000003.01544@CC913542-A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_W1KYG6G0000000000000" Jazz trumpeter Tom Harrell joked, "I'm Getting Semi-Mental Over You." Matt Catingub recorded an album called "I'm Getting Cement All Over Ewe" and (I believe) had a picture of a sheep on the cover. Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com -------Original Message------- From: Adrian Drover Date: Friday, March 09, 2001 00:34:26 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: IGSOY.... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: IGSOY.... > Ok so you figured out what they were. What are they??? IGSOY = "I'm Getting Senile, 'Owzabout You?" A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk _________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 23:28:07 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: <001401c0a8e8$48152c00$c43bfb3e@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Arthur Koolen wrote: : They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL and : the low part players : Denis Wick 5ABL. : I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. : Am I right? Yes! : I know that Bach has a very nice site where their mouthpiece-code is : explained. Does Denis Wick also have such a site? Try "Denis Wick mouthpieces" in "Google". You'll get over 150 hits! Try also http://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/pages/idx2.html Cheers, Dick Sleeman ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:26:44 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <00bc01c0a8e8$519e9400$7196fc3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: more etiquette >>>>>>> What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? >>>>>>> I find it comes in handy. Most conductors get upset when you play notes that are not in the score. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 23:32:38 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: IGIOY.... Message-ID: <002e01c0a8e8$dfb16d80$c43bfb3e@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Because I do not sing, I always call the piece "I'M GETTING INSTRUMENTAL OVER YOU" Groeten uit Holland, Dick Sleeman < d.sleeman@hccnet.nl > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:41:28 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Updated Trombone-L Guidelines - Please Read Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" TROMBONE-L Guidelines These will hopefully make you participation with Trombone-L rewarding and pleasant. Thank you for you cooperation! TROMBONE-L GUIDELINES 1. The focus of the list is the trombone and related aspects. Please keep posts on topic. Please hold non-trombone related discussions privately or direct them to an appropriate discussion list. 2. You must use your real name when subscribing. Pseudonyms will not be allowed. Any subsciption that appears to be using a false name will be removed from the list immediately. 3. Respect of subscribers to Trombone-l is required at all time. This is a friendly environment and any non-friendly behavior of trombone-l subscribers will not be tolerated (on or off the list). Please report misuse to the Listmonitor (tsks@cjnetworks.com) immediately. Each report will be dealt with individually. The sending of abusive or obscene messages will result in immediate removal from the list. In an open forum, there will always be disagreements. However, you are encouraged to express yourself in a courteous and respectful manner at all times. 4. Please set your e-mail client to send plain-text messages rather than HTML-formatted text. Many e-mail clients cannot correctly process HTML-formatted e-mails, and it also doubles the file size of the message. 5. Do not send attachments to the trombone-l. Because of the potential virus transmission and the waste of bandwidth, sending of attachments is strictly prohibited. 6. Culling of trombone-l subscriber e-mail addresses for the purpose of sending unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail ("spamming") can result in the immediate cancellation of your subscription. TROMBONE-L LIST CONFIGURATIONS REPLYING: The list will be configured so when you hit your reply button the author's address will appear, not the trombone-l e-mail address. This is to allow the individual to reply to the author without having to reply to the list. If you want your reply to be sent to the list the trombone-l address will need to be entered in. AUTO DELETE: Any mail that is not deliverable to a subscriber of trombone-l after three days will result in the subscriber automatically being removed from trombone-l. This my be caused by your mailbox being full, your mail servers is down or a portion of the network that delivers e-mail to your server is down. Trombone-L produces about one thousand error messages daily (basically impossible to sort through). If you find that you have been unsubscribed just subscribe again. ARCHIVES: Due to restructuring of the University of Missouri/Columbia computer system, trombone-l archives are unavailable. You may search the trombone-l archive prepared by Antoine Brusseau at http://www.brusseau.com/trombone-l DIGEST ARCHIVE: Archives of trombone-l digests are available online at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l Thanks Again! ( and .... practice, practice, practice) LM March 9, 2001 -- --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.trombone.org/trombone-l ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:56:12 -0600 From: "Hal Starkey" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <006801c0a8ec$23c47640$0c381b41@KSCABLE.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I know a former principal player here (not a trombonist) who was fired from his job by a former conductor. Supposedly, for reading a Reader's Digest during a rehearsal! Big mistake on the conductor's part, I thought. It caused another player to protest by resigning the next week. Both men were (are) great players. Hal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Langfur" Sent: March 09, 2001 3:47 PM > I've had a conductor ask people to please be more discreet about > reading during rehearsals because he found it distracting. Other than > that, it's never been a problem. > > I think it's ugly if it detracts in any way from your concentration. In > most situations, I'll only take out a magazine in a tacet movement. > > Gabe > > --- David Pozos wrote: > > Now that we«ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have > > another > > one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad > > or ugly? > > Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. > > > > David Pozos > > Primer Tromb—n > > Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa > > www.osx.org.mx > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:00:33 -0600 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ophicleide sold Message-ID: <019401c0a7d8$364f11e0$78ce4fd8@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already but there are two articles regarding the ophicleide at the following site: http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/ One article is on Sam Hughes, the last great player on the instrument in the UK. The other article is by Stephen Weston ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:12:26 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: davebuckley@sympatico.ca Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <3AA9635A.C0762869@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, that was me! I have to admit to being a bit of a trombone "bad boy" in that situation. As far as I can recall, the policy in the Hamilton Philharmonic is no reading in the pit during performances. So I can safely say I did break the rules and I deserve a slap on the wrist. No excuses offered here. I will say however it was an excellent book about travel through communist China and I managed to get through all 500 pages during the rehearsals and performances. We were playing Eugene Onegin and anyone familiar with the opera and the trombone parts in particular knows that we are out for about 45 minutes in the first act. Well...when you are not a big opera fan like myself, one tends to gravitate towards other interests. I figured my homebrewing hobby would not be as welcome in the pit as a sizable book so I chose the lesser of two evils. Normally I would just have a magazine on the stand and try to be a bit more discreet. This time I got carried away. But I do know a lot more about communist China now than I did a couple of months ago. Along the thread of etiquette (specific to our pit) is the fact that as soon as the opera is done people start packing up in the pit. They don't even wait for the bow from the conductor or anything. I personally find it rude and I don't think it is very appreciative of the audience. Operas are always well received in Hamilton and there are lots of curtain calls, I don't think it would kill us to stick around for a couple of those. We don't do it while we are on stage so why do it when we are in the pit. Now that I have that off my chest, time to play Schumann 1 tonight. Cheers Peter Collins Bass Trombone (and homebrewer) Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:56:50 -0500 From: "Jim Dexter" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ear protection Message-ID: <20010309235702.ZPUN12888.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1259085-a> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Mar 01, at 9:19, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > There was some discussion about ear protection a few weeks ago. This is > something in which I'm very interested -- I imagine we all should be. > I've been doing a little research and have formed some opinions. > > The high end product is custom-made ear plus using the E.A.R. sound > filters. The plugs insert into the ear much like a hearing aid. On the > outside of the plug, you snap one of three filters that provide > differing decibels of sound reduction. The claim is that the sound is > reduced uniformly across the spectrum giving a natural sound. I had a > set of these made by an audiologist. I went with their least > restrictive filter: -9 db. They are comfortable and I believe their > claim about the uniform response. I think they would be excellent for > working in a very noisy environment, but I don't find them suitable at > all for playing music -- at least not in my situations. If I were in a > really loud rock band and I had a good monitor right in front of me, > they would probably be perfect. > > The problem is that, even with the least restrictive filter, they limit > too much sound. Actually -9 db would probably be an ideal amount for a > pianist, percussionist, bassist -- anybody but a wind player. With > brass, a lot of what we "hear" is waves that are carried through the > jawbone and skull bones. These plugs shift too much of the sound to > that internal stuff. Maybe this is something one could get used to, but > I don't care for it. My advice is to save the 150 bucks. There are > better choices. (There is one neat outcome. With these plugs in, you > can hear the quality of your buzz more clearly. That is useful in a > practice setting.) I bought some like this - had them fitted to my ear, the whole bit. Expensive, but worth it I thought after having permanent ear damage caused by a screech trumpet player. I agree with Craig, they are too restrictive, and I do not use them for playing. I was also told (by a very good tenor saxophonist) that simple cotton balls work wonders. They let sound in, but protect against the occasional piercing flare-ups. Jim D ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:22:48 -0500 From: David Burch To: dpozos@xal.megared.net.mx Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <3AA973D8.4A0999@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It doesn't bug me when my section mates read a fishing magazine together during rests in rehearsal, but I'd rather they didn't *talk* about fishing. Dave Burch (Hometown concealed to protect the guilty) David Pozos wrote: > Now that we«ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have another > one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad or ugly? > Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. > > David Pozos > Primer Tromb—n > Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa > www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:27:03 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: more etiquette Message-ID: <3AA974D7.81386E19@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David Pozos wrote: > Now that we«ve got the trombone stand thing out of the way I have another > one. What is the protocol on reading in rehearsals? Is it good, bad or ugly? > Are there rules about that in your group? Thanks all. > Dave, In the opera, we read all the time, even in performances. The trombones are so far under the stage down in the pit that nobody can really see us. I would go nuts if I didn't have something to do for the 3 or 4 hours we're down there. The percussionists sneak out and go watch TV the whole time. I don't know how symphony players do it, having to sit on stage and act like they're paying attention the whole time. Of course, they usually have only an hour or so to sit through between intermissions. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:58:32 EST From: PyroGuy211@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Tombone stand horror stories Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bb.c660462.27db0068_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline Just seeing if im the only one with bad expieriences(sp?) In my Youth Orchestra which by chance happens to be at my school im the only trombone with a trombone stand . I use it for my 42 nomally but im a bass trombone in this orchestra so i tried to put the 50 BO(school owned) on it and it fell over-----of course with my luck it my band director was there observing...ohhh-not pretty! but i was lucky it hit a string BASS soft case so it didnt dent or anything! He was still mad so now i have to use the schools conn 110H (NOOO! I love that Bach bass) oh well, does anyone else have these bad stories? Michael ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 23:25:27 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010309231510.01eab560@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:58 PM 3/9/2001 -0500, PyroGuy211@aol.com wrote: In my Youth Orchestra which by chance happens to be at my school im the only trombone with a trombone stand . I use it for my 42 nomally but im a bass trombone in this orchestra so i tried to put the 50 BO(school owned) on it and it fell over-----of course with my luck it my band director was there observing...ohhh-not pretty! but i was lucky it hit a string BASS soft case so it didnt dent or anything! He was still mad so now i have to use the schools conn 110H (NOOO! I love that Bach bass) oh well, does anyone else have these bad stories? Let me guess, you have not studied trigonometry yet, right? Actually an introductory Physics class is where you would learn about centers of gravity and force vectors. Just because the thing is called "stand" doesn't mean it will. Trombones with F attachments are top heavy, and basses are obviously even more top heavy. You can compensate by using a stand that is extremely bottom heavy -- a base made out of plutonium would be pretty good. But the more practical solution is a stand that has legs with a longer wingspan (to mix a metaphor). A Hamilton stand with 11" inch legs is completely inadequate for a 2-valve bass. Personally I wouldn't use anything shorter than 16" legs on a bass and 18" is a lot more stable. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:10:21 -0800 From: Andrew Michael To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Schilke 58 for sale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm selling a Schilke 58 in new condition (played once), still in the box. Cost is $35 including shipping anywhere in the US, which I think makes it cheaper than going into a store and paying sales tax or ordering it and paying shipping. Cheers, Andy ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:45:56 -0600 From: "Joseph Sellmansberger" To: "trombone list" Subject: 36B on ebay Message-ID: <001501c0a92d$c93e4e20$e2935d0c@vogmudet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings list, We are trying to "get through" our shelves of the "waiting-for-the-restoration-fairies" Bach Strads and just restored (new lacquer finish...very gentle polishing) a "gently-used-but-previously-not-shiny" 36B, put it in a never-used genuine Stradivarius case, tossed in a fist-full of "doo-dads", and a like-new Bach 6&1/2AL mouthpiece. We've started the auction at only $800 ("NO RESERVE"), which is roughly half of the cheapest "new" price that anyone is quoting. This gives any of you who might be interested plenty of "bidding room" to get a great value. We offer a 2-day in-home trial, and one year of free service. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1415494461 Thanks for looking folks, Joe & Debbie Sellmansberger Mid-South Music (since 1979) Memphis, Tennessee sellmansberger@worldnet.att.net btw webmasters, if this is considered "spam", please let us know. We enjoy reading all of your posts and occasionally posting on issues ourselves. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:14:35 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <003401c0a93a$3a23dcc0$fc94fc3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 4:25 AM Subject: Re: Tombone stand horror stories > Personally I wouldn't use anything shorter than 16" > legs on a bass and 18" is a lot more stable. Then the lead violin player can trip over it and wreck his Strad. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:27:36 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: circus bands Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010310082441.01eaa808@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:22 AM 3/8/2001 -0500, Richardson, Tim wrote: Now I have to figure out what exerpts to practice just in case. Any advice? Entry of the Gladiators for sure, but there must be some others. I'd definitely spend some serious time on Blashevich. Not the clef book, but his lesser known "Blashevich's Painful Study of Raunchy Glissandos". It covers all the glisses in every key. Gliss up, gliss down, and the difficult but captivating slide warble. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:07:20 -0500 From: "John McVey" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: BACH 50BO2 for sale Message-ID: <006301c0a963$0aac62e0$79432dd8@mhjlm00> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am selling my Bach 50BO2 privately because I don't play it much any more and I'd like to take the proceeds and get a new small bore horn. It was custom made by Todd Clontz about 3 years ago. Here is a web page with all the specs: http://mcveyj.digiweb.com/mcveyj/for_sale_page.htm Please contact me via this e-mail address or john.mcvey@frb.gov if you are interested. I will split the shipping chartges in the USA. Overseas buyers must pay for shipping. Thanks, John ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:34:26 -0500 From: "John McVey" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Sabutin in Washington Message-ID: <008901c0a966$d3e2fa40$79432dd8@mhjlm00> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings List, Just a short note to pass on a few things. Thursday afternoon, I went over to the Lincoln Theater here in DC to pick up one of Sam Burtis' method books and list to a rehearsal of the Smithsonian Jazz Masterworks Orchestra for a while. Man, what a great band and huge talent!!! They are all very fine players. They are giving two free concerts this week at the Lincoln Theater. One was last night, but the other is tonight. Even though it's free, tickets are required and they are all gone except for 100, which will be first-come first served beginning about 6:30 pm or so. The concert is at 8:00. Thursday night, I dropped by a small jazz club up on 14th street called "HR-57", www.hr57.org. Several members of the SJMO, including SABUTIN, were there for the Jam Session. I heard some of the best playing I have heard in many years!! Sam's playing was just fabulous, and that new Shires horn was really cookin'. He has great feel, he was all over the horn harmonically, and displayed ranges from the pedals up to double F and above. "He can play pretty, he can play slow or fast, and he can play pretty and fast!" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:08:22 -0600 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sabutin in Washington Message-ID: <001601c0a85f$5b548880$93cf4fd8@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sabutin: I'm really interested in the new horn. What are the specs? What type of mouthpiece? How does it play? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John McVey" in part, states: > Greetings List, > > Thursday night, I dropped by a small jazz club up on 14th street > called "HR-57", www.hr57.org. Several members of the SJMO, including > SABUTIN, were there for the Jam Session. I heard some of the best playing I > have heard in many years!! Sam's playing was just fabulous, and that new > Shires horn was really cookin'. He has great feel, he was all over the horn > harmonically, and displayed ranges from the pedals up to double F and above. > "He can play pretty, he can play slow or fast, and he can play pretty and > fast!" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:30:02 -0500 From: sabutin To: craig@acticalc.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Ear protection Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Ear plugs are IMPORTANT. Not just for amplified situations, either. I refer to them as ear condoms. Why? In today's world, if condoms are not used you run a great risk of getting AIDS, right? (This is not a pleasant fact and I don't wish to offend anyone...but it is true, is it not?) If ear plugs aren't used when needed, you run an equally great risk of needing HEARING aids. Really. Use 'em or lose 'em. If the sound level is uncomfortable...and a good trumpet player playing MF in the middle range (either behind you are or at an angle that reaches your ear) is enough to produce discomfort, as are snare drums or many other percussion instruments...WEAR EAR PROTECTION. Many wind players claim that wearing ear plugs hurts their playing, but I disagree. It changes your immediate PERCEPTION of your playing, but doesn't necessarily hurt it. You hear less of your airborne sound and thus proportionately more of the sound carried through your skull, but once you realize that the sound coming out of your horn is not changed at all by the use of ear plugs, you can quickly adapt to the changed mode of perception. I use the cheapest compressible foam plugs, because I have found them to be comfortable, inexpensive, easy to find, and most importantly, almost infinitely adjustable. In many scenes, I find that I only need plugs maybe 10% of the time...say when a certain trumpet player is soloing or when there's an overamplified flute or guitar solo...in these situations I leave them kinda perched in my ear where they don't interfere w/the sound much at all. When the offending sound starts, I can push them in w/in a split second. (And yes, I'll stop playing to do so if I have to...my ears are more important than ANY gig or music.) When the entire sound level is too high, I adjust the depth into which they enter each individual ear until things get better. Sometimes only one ear needs the protection, and sometimes you only need them to be in a little bit. Foam plugs can be adjusted in very fine increments, and I have found the other kinds...the rubbery, gummy ones or the more elaborate, high tech varieties...to be more of an all-off or all-on kind of situation. Whatever kind you do end up using, just get used to them and go about your business. Trust your sound...it's the same as it was before you put the ear plugs in. Parenthetically, I have found that using plugs actually HELPS my playing in certain situations that aren't necessarily ear threatening, especially in low range, soft playing in a large ensemble or a bad acoustic environment. For example, playing tuba in the low range is often a hit or miss thing as far as pitch is concerned w/out ear plugs...the bell is usually several feet away from your ears, and the actual pitch you're playing is often anybody's guess. W/ear plugs, the pitch is perceived very strongly through the head bones. Makes things MUCH easier... Later... S. ======================== There was some discussion about ear protection a few weeks ago. This is something in which I'm very interested -- I imagine we all should be. I've been doing a little research and have formed some opinions. The high end product is custom-made ear plus using the E.A.R. sound filters. The plugs insert into the ear much like a hearing aid. On the outside of the plug, you snap one of three filters that provide differing decibels of sound reduction. The claim is that the sound is reduced uniformly across the spectrum giving a natural sound. I had a set of these made by an audiologist. I went with their least restrictive filter: -9 db. They are comfortable and I believe their claim about the uniform response. I think they would be excellent for working in a very noisy environment, but I don't find them suitable at all for playing music -- at least not in my situations. If I were in a really loud rock band and I had a good monitor right in front of me, they would probably be perfect. The problem is that, even with the least restrictive filter, they limit too much sound. Actually -9 db would probably be an ideal amount for a pianist, percussionist, bassist -- anybody but a wind player. With brass, a lot of what we "hear" is waves that are carried through the jawbone and skull bones. These plugs shift too much of the sound to that internal stuff. Maybe this is something one could get used to, but I don't care for it. My advice is to save the 150 bucks. There are better choices. (There is one neat outcome. With these plugs in, you can hear the quality of your buzz more clearly. That is useful in a practice setting.) The same company (E.A.R.) makes a set of off-the-shelf plugs called ER-20. They are rated at -12 db. They don't seem to share any technology with the custom plugs but the manufacturer makes the same claim about the fidelity of the sound spectrum. They look a lot like some of the rubber plugs you can buy at the drug or hardware store. I like these plugs. I think their claim of full spectrum sound is accurate. With the plugs inserted as designed, you have the same problem as with the custom plugs -- too much of the sound coming through the skull. However, unlike the custom plugs, you can partially insert these plugs. By doing that, you can allow a little more of the airborne sound to enter the ear. That works for me. I'd definitely recommend this. You can order these for $20 at http://www.hearnet.com/shop/index.shtml. I've tried lots of stuff from the drug store. I don't care for the foam inserts because they don't give even response and you have no control over the attenuation. A product I found to work surprisingly well is called Aquasoft from Howard Leight. A package of 6 silicone blobs is just a few bucks. This product is designed to be worn on the outer ear rather than being inserted into the ear canal. When fully covering the ear opening, these are rated at -21 db, which I think is too much. But it is easy to wear this in a way that allows a little sound to enter normally. I think that works really well and the price is right. I tend to put them on loosely at first. As your body heat warms them, it is easier to give them a tighter fit. If you find the noise level increasing as the ensemble gets going, simply push them in a little more snuggly. You can literally make that adjustment during a one measure rest. Any other thoughts out there? Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:31:37 -0500 From: "Art Triggs" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: <002101c0a977$33617040$f6a315ac@bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is correct, I have tried both, like the 4al for tenor, and Euph. All the best Art Triggs ----- Original Message ----- From: Candice & Eric Swanson To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? > > > Arthur Koolen wrote: > > > Hello list, > > > > in my amateur militairy band the euphonium players have got new instruments. > > Large bore Bessons. The old instruments were small bore Yamaha's. > > They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL and > > the low part players > > Denis Wick 5ABL. > > I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. > > Am I right? > > Arthur, > > The 4AL is larger than the 5ABL as far as I know. > > Eric Swanson > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:12:52 -0500 From: chardy@totcon.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: two bass trombones for sale Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010310131252.006ba0e8@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Benge 290 and Holton 181 Both are in PERFECT condition, dual rotors, in line, direct linkage, no dents, excellent slides, excellent cases, almost perfect original lacquer, both play extremely well! $1275 each, shipping included Charlie chardy@totcon.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:47:43 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: mouthpiece?? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi list and Art, I highly recommend checking out the Wick SM series (Steve Mead) if you are looking for some great euph mouthpieces. I have used the SM 4 and SM 5 with great results. They are also very nice and friendly with more conical German trombones. As with the regular Wick series, the SM4 has a slightly larger rim than the SM5. Regards, Gary Gary Greenhoe Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra Greenhoe Musical Instrument Components http://www.greenhoe.com gary@greenhoe.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Art Triggs Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 9:32 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? That is correct, I have tried both, like the 4al for tenor, and Euph. All the best Art Triggs ----- Original Message ----- From: Candice & Eric Swanson To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: Re: mouthpiece?? > > > Arthur Koolen wrote: > > > Hello list, > > > > in my amateur militairy band the euphonium players have got new instruments. > > Large bore Bessons. The old instruments were small bore Yamaha's. > > They also got new mouthpieces. The high part players got Denis Wick 4AL and > > the low part players > > Denis Wick 5ABL. > > I think they accidentaly switched the mouthpieces. > > Am I right? > > Arthur, > > The 4AL is larger than the 5ABL as far as I know. > > Eric Swanson > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:53:56 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <20010310155356.65675.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To add to Craig's post about center of gravity, another thing that people don't often do is position the slide over or near a LEG of the stand rather then directly between two legs. The weight of the instrument is not going to pull the stand over if it's distributed directly over one of the legs. Do yourself a favor - buy one of the big UMI or K&M stands if you want to put a bass trombone on one. And spread the legs of the stand as wide as possible. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:09:17 -0500 From: sabutin To: zemry@bellsouth.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sabutin: I'm really interested in the new horn. What are the specs? What type of mouthpiece? How does it play? ----- Original Message ----- ================== .525 bore, red brass 8" bell(unlacquered, unengraved) marked 2 RVE 8 (means the bell is built the way Elkhart Conn bells were built, w/two seams), normal weight slide (a narrower width, more like a Bach 36 than a Bach 42...he offers two widths), 2.5 leadpipe (his next to the largest one), a slightly smaller taper on the tuning slide than his "stock" one (I'm not sure he HAS a "stock" ANYTHING, but I believe his "B" tuning slide is the most popular, and w/this setup, it didn't work well in the upper register for me), and my bored out 6 1/2 AL m'pce. This is a very good all around horn for me...great solo instrument, great for 2cd or 3rd parts, and very good for lead as well. (A LITTLE too dark to be a general business older jazz lead horn, but it's more than just passable for that use as well.) I tried his 8 1/2" bell, and although I liked the way it played a great deal, its sound was a little too dispersed for many of the high energy gigs I do. I also bought a Greenhoe valve section for it, and that works great as well. W/the Greenhoe and the substitution of a 3 leadpipe and a "B" tuning slide, the horn gets VERY orchestral...maybe not quite .547 territory, but close. VERY close. In addition, he offers a .525/.547 or straight .547 slide that will work on the same bell section. If I ever really NEED an orchestral horn, I will buy an 8 1/2" bell flare and .547 slide from him and be perfectly set up for THAT world as well. He's also making smaller horns now... .509, .500, plus some dual bore variants, and I believe he's thinking about a .485 slide and some smaller bells also...7 1/2", 7"... The only drawback that I can see to his line of horns is that there are almost TOO many choices...a few pilgrimages to his factory outside of Boston are almost a necessity if you really want to find out what setup is best for you. I have tried a number of different components over the past 6 months, and this is probably what I have settled on...I may try a yellow brass bell for a while to see if I can get a LITTLE more brilliance and attack, but this horn is just great for me... I can't recommend Steve's work and service highly enough...and this is not an endorsement deal either, for those of you justifiably suspicious of high profile players flacking for companies. Shires is a small company, and Steve needs to SELL his horns, not give them away. He seems to give the same service to any player who buys his horns, and is obviously passionately committed to making the very best instruments he can. Check them out. It's like going to the Mt. Vernon factory when Vincent Bach was running things, or to Elkhart in the '30s when Conn was making custom instruments. Later... S. From: "John McVey" in part, states: Greetings List, Thursday night, I dropped by a small jazz club up on 14th street called "HR-57", www.hr57.org. Several members of the SJMO, including SABUTIN, were there for the Jam Session. I heard some of the best playing I have heard in many years!! Sam's playing was just fabulous, and that new Shires horn was really cookin'. He has great feel, he was all over the horn harmonically, and displayed ranges from the pedals up to double F and above. "He can play pretty, he can play slow or fast, and he can play pretty and fast!" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:06:23 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <42.11d030ae.27dbaaff@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gabe and Fellow Listers, I've had several colleagues who use the UMI and K&M trombone stands have the threads on the knobs strip. Anyone else have this problem, and if so any solutions? One colleague took a snare drum stand and put the top of his Hamilton trombone on top of it. It works well, but is very heavy, and takes up a lot of space, especially in the Opera and Ballet pit. Thanks!, Jim Bermann ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:15:26 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Schilke 58 for sale Message-ID: <002701c0a97d$55364500$4b0a0c23@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .From: "Andrew Michael" > I'm selling a Schilke 58 in new condition (played once), > still in the box. Andy, I think you should give this mouthpiece another chance. They just don't sound right when they are still in the box. Put it on your horn and give it another shot. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:46:43 From: "Jerry Hou" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Looking for Jon Anderson Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone have an email address for Jon Anderson? Thanks, Jerry _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:49:26 -0500 From: David Burch To: becks@pilot.msu.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Schilke 58 for sale Message-ID: <3AAA5B15.BF6628A1@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I keep a Schilke 58 in my Edwards tenor case for those occasions when I need to play a low part with a full sound but where my bass would be too foggy (e.g., "bass" trombone in a Mozart choral piece, doubling the bass voices). It works great for such parts. You sure you'll never need it? Dave Burch Hamilton, Ohio Steve Beck wrote: > .From: "Andrew Michael" > > I'm selling a Schilke 58 in new condition (played once), > > still in the box. > > Andy, I think you should give this mouthpiece another chance. They just > don't sound right when they are still in the box. Put it on your horn and > give it another shot. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:52:38 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: mouthpiece! Message-ID: <004601c0a982$86acfb60$d022fb3e@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello listmates, Gary writes: : I highly recommend checking out the Wick SM series (Steve Mead) if you are : looking for some great euph mouthpieces. I have used the SM 4 and SM 5 with : great results. They are also very nice and friendly with more conical : German trombones. As with the regular Wick series, the SM4 has a slightly : larger rim than the SM5. My favorite mouthpiece for euphonium is made in Germany, by Josef Klier. I use a trombone mouthpiece with a deep cup. Also worth checking out! http://www.jk-klier.de/ Dick Sleeman. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:38:13 -0800 From: "Dilshad Kasmani" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) Message-ID: <0b3401c0a92c$b0873500$8119fea9@zrrs1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speaking of the new Shires small bore....has anyone tried them out? Dillon's site states that a .500, .508, . 500/.508, and a .508/.525 are now available, but no other info is given. Even though I don't NEED a new horn - I have been itching for one REALLY nice small bore horn to replace my stable of various old Conns. I'm looking at the Lawlers, Rath, Edwards, and now the Shires small bores. I'm going to try to attend the ITF in May to check out these lines as well as whatever else I can find there. Any comments or suggestions on the makes listed above? Thanks. Dilshad Kasmani ----- Original Message ----- From: "sabutin" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) > >Sabutin: > > I'm really interested in the new horn. What are the specs? What type of > >mouthpiece? How does it play? > >----- Original Message ----- > > > ================== > > .525 bore, red brass 8" bell(unlacquered, unengraved) marked 2 RVE > 8 (means the bell is built the way Elkhart Conn bells were built, > w/two seams), normal weight slide (a narrower width, more like a Bach > 36 than a Bach 42...he offers two widths), 2.5 leadpipe (his next to > the largest one), a slightly smaller taper on the tuning slide than > his "stock" one (I'm not sure he HAS a "stock" ANYTHING, but I > believe his "B" tuning slide is the most popular, and w/this setup, > it didn't work well in the upper register for me), and my bored out 6 > 1/2 AL m'pce. This is a very good all around horn for me...great solo > instrument, great for 2cd or 3rd parts, and very good for lead as > well. (A LITTLE too dark to be a general business older jazz lead > horn, but it's more than just passable for that use as well.) > > I tried his 8 1/2" bell, and although I liked the way it played a > great deal, its sound was a little too dispersed for many of the high > energy gigs I do. > > I also bought a Greenhoe valve section for it, and that works > great as well. W/the Greenhoe and the substitution of a 3 leadpipe > and a "B" tuning slide, the horn gets VERY orchestral...maybe not > quite .547 territory, but close. VERY close. > > In addition, he offers a .525/.547 or straight .547 slide that > will work on the same bell section. If I ever really NEED an > orchestral horn, I will buy an 8 1/2" bell flare and .547 slide from > him and be perfectly set up for THAT world as well. > > He's also making smaller horns now... .509, .500, plus some dual > bore variants, and I believe he's thinking about a .485 slide and > some smaller bells also...7 1/2", 7"... > > The only drawback that I can see to his line of horns is that there > are almost TOO many choices...a few pilgrimages to his factory > outside of Boston are almost a necessity if you really want to find > out what setup is best for you. I have tried a number of different > components over the past 6 months, and this is probably what I have > settled on...I may try a yellow brass bell for a while to see if I > can get a LITTLE more brilliance and attack, but this horn is just > great for me... > > I can't recommend Steve's work and service highly enough...and > this is not an endorsement deal either, for those of you justifiably > suspicious of high profile players flacking for companies. Shires is > a small company, and Steve needs to SELL his horns, not give them > away. He seems to give the same service to any player who buys his > horns, and is obviously passionately committed to making the very > best instruments he can. > > Check them out. It's like going to the Mt. Vernon factory when > Vincent Bach was running things, or to Elkhart in the '30s when Conn > was making custom instruments. > > Later... > > S. > > > > >From: "John McVey" in part, states: > > > > > >> Greetings List, > >> > >> Thursday night, I dropped by a small jazz club up on 14th > >street > >> called "HR-57", www.hr57.org. Several members of the SJMO, including > >> SABUTIN, were there for the Jam Session. I heard some of the best playing > >I > >> have heard in many years!! Sam's playing was just fabulous, and that new > >> Shires horn was really cookin'. He has great feel, he was all over the > >horn > >> harmonically, and displayed ranges from the pedals up to double F and > >above. > >> "He can play pretty, he can play slow or fast, and he can play pretty and > >> fast!" > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:00:06 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Little known solos Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Now that we know that trombone stands are OK and we all read in rehearsals even though we know we shouldn't, here's a new thread: little known solos. What I mean by this is not solos which have a small distribution that nobody knows about. I'm thinking of excellent, high quality solos (of substantial length and content) which are well known in a particular genre, and even have been recorded (some several times) but are virtually unknown to people who don't work in that genre. What is it? Trombone and brass band. We've had a little discussion about brass bands in the USA, but despite the growing of the movement here, brass bands are still bit players on the music scene. Not so in the UK, Europe, and many other countries, where brass bands are part of the vibrant musical life of a community. I just looked through my CD collection - I have more recordings with trombone solos with brass band than with concert band or orchestra. And by many fine players whose names may be virtually unknown to those who don't know brass bands. Here's a list of some solos and recordings where they can be found. I'd like to recommend people check these out - many of the solos are available with piano accompaniment as well, and composers have been known to re-arrange their works for other accompanying ensembles if sufficient people ask them. I'm confining this list to solos for tenor trombone (only a partial list, there are so many to choose from, as well as many arrangements and smaller pieces which I've not included here). These recordings are widely available, in the USA from dealers like Bernel Music (bernelw@gte.net), some through Hickeys and the usual suspects. Some music of substance here! -Doug Yeo ============= Phantasm - Rodney Newton Trombone Concerto - Andrew Duncan Brett Baker, trombone Flowers Band "Baker's Dozen" Polyphonic QPRL 093D White Knuckle Ride - Philip Wilby The Eternal Quest - Ray Steadman-Allen Nick Hudson, trombone "Nick Hudson Anthology" Britannia building Society Band Polyphonic QPRL 076D Rhapsody for Trombone - Gordon Langford Don Lusher, trombone "The Spectrum of Brass" Black Dyke Mills Band Chandos CHAN 4533 White Knuckle Ride - Philip Wilby Brett Baker, trombone "Jazz" Williams Fairey Band Doyen 068 Trombone Concerto - Andrew Duncan Andrew Berryman, trombone "English Landscapes" Rigid Containers Group Band Harlequin HAR 1125 Dance Sequence - Gareth Wood Brett Baker, trombone "Double Champions" Williams Fairey Band Polyphonic QPRL 065D The Guardian - Peter Graham Dale Warren, trombone "The Dancing King" Lexington Brass Band Bernell CD 10005 The Guardian - Peter Graham Vanda Spence, trombone "Hemispheres" New York Staff Band Triumphonic TRCD 1054 Fantasy on Spirituals - Ray Steadman-Allen Andrew Justice, trombone "Manuscripts" International Staff Band SPS 114 CD New Horizons - Robert Redhead Andrew Justice, trombone "Blazon" International Staff Band SPS 091 CD Trombone Concerto - Derek Bourgeois Ian Bousfield, trombone "Bourgeois" Sun Life Band stanShawe STA005CD Rhapsody for Trombone - Gordon Langford Ian Bousfield, trombone "The Versatile Virtuoso" Yorkshire Imperial Band Doyen 014 Immortal Theme - Ray Steadman-Allen A Never Failing Friend - Erik Leidzen Dudley Bright, trombone "Principals" New York Staff Band Triumphonic TRCD 1047 ========== ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:05:57 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombone stand horror stories Message-ID: <20010310170557.41955.qmail@web10314.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, I have had that happen. I imagine if I went to the trouble to contact UMI and raise a stink they would replace the part or something. On the other hand, the bottom knob is not really necessary to tighten for normal use - it'll stay in place just fine with that point loose. Gabe --- JFBermann@aol.com wrote: > Hi Gabe and Fellow Listers, > I've had several colleagues who use the UMI and K&M trombone > stands have the threads on the knobs strip. Anyone else have > this problem, and if so any solutions? One colleague took a snare > drum stand and put the top of his Hamilton trombone on top of it. > It works well, but is very heavy, and takes up a lot of space, > especially in the Opera and Ballet pit. > > Thanks!, > Jim Bermann __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:15:49 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: mouthpiece! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, Dick... I can't agree with you more. I have a bunch of these fine mouthpieces! We are a fortunate bunch in the states now as George Foster in Libertyville, IL is now importing these fine pieces as well as the K&H trombones. I highly recommend the exclusive series although don't order any of the shallower 5's that have just arrived as I have dibbs on them! George's Address? http://khbrass.com/jkmainpage.htm Regards and happy shopping! Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Dick Sleeman Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 10:53 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: mouthpiece! Hello listmates, Gary writes: : I highly recommend checking out the Wick SM series (Steve Mead) if you are : looking for some great euph mouthpieces. I have used the SM 4 and SM 5 with : great results. They are also very nice and friendly with more conical : German trombones. As with the regular Wick series, the SM4 has a slightly : larger rim than the SM5. My favorite mouthpiece for euphonium is made in Germany, by Josef Klier. I use a trombone mouthpiece with a deep cup. Also worth checking out! http://www.jk-klier.de/ Dick Sleeman. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:24:49 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Re: Bass Trombone Stand Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010310102413.00a5aef0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:13:22 -0600 Reply-To: KD5XB@amsat.org Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu From: Earl Needham To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Stand X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 At 08:57 PM 4/25/00 -0300, Craig Parmerlee sent: At 05:19 PM 04/25/2000 -0600, Earl Needham wrote: At 03:46 PM 4/25/00 -0700, you wrote: Hey all, had an unfortuate accident with my Hamilton bending under the weight of my bass trombone and my trombone take a spill. Although this isn't about dent repair, I can tell you how to make that Hamilton hold any trombone you ever want it to. The Hamilton stand is inherently unstable for most bass trombones. The very week after I had bought my first brand shiny new bass, it took a tumble on a Hamilton stand. Well, although Craig had a bad experience with a Hamilton stand, I don't think the stand should be condemned. Shucks, I had a tuba player knock my horn completely off my Hamilton and onto a gym floor! Is that the fault of the Hamilton or the fault of the tuba player? At 09:36 PM 4/25/00 -0400, Roger Carmichael wrote: Another great stand for bass trombone is the K & M, model 1499 for about $50. This is a heavy duty stand. The three legs each extend a shade more than 13" As for stability, I just measured the legs on my stand. They form a circle with a radius of 12". Surely you can't believe that a single inch will make up any stability? I know *I* don't. Going from 12" to 13" is only 8%. The fact is that most people don't take the time to set up their Hamilton stand properly. What they usually do is set the rubber flange so high that the center piece won't keep the horn from rocking. YOU HAVE TO FIT THE STAND TO THE HORN. Once you set the flange low enough to keep the horn from rocking, you should raise the stand enough so the slide won't touch the floor. If you don't do this, it isn't the fault of the stand if your horn falls, IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT. Everything has to be set up properly. At 09:12 PM 4/25/00 -0500, Douglas Yeo sent: The golden rule about trombone stands: Never put a trombone on a trombone stand unless you are sitting next to the trombone. I'll second this one, simply because I, too, have experience here. What's that they say? "Experience is what you get right after you need it." Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1974 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:33:15 -0500 From: sabutin To: "Dilshad Kasmani" Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Shires horn (was Re: Sabutin in Washington) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Speaking of the new Shires small bore....has anyone tried them out? Dillon's site states that a .500, .508, . 500/.508, and a .508/.525 are now available, but no other info is given. Even though I don't NEED a new horn - I have been itching for one REALLY nice small bore horn to replace my stable of various old Conns. I'm looking at the Lawlers, Rath, Edwards, and now the Shires small bores. I'm going to try to attend the ITF in May to check out these lines as well as whatever else I can find there. Any comments or suggestions on the makes listed above? Thanks. Dilshad Kasmani ===================== Dilshad... I have tried the Lawler and Rath horns, and wasn't particularly impressed. They both seemed a little heavy and unwieldy to me. This was at various conventions, and not under the best of circumstances to say the least, but that's what I heard and felt when I played them. The Edwards small bores, on the other hand, felt exactly the opposite to me...TOO light, not able to really set down on the sound w/out getting a little bright, a little brittle. Again, this was not at the factory, so I couldn't really experiment w/bells, tuning slides, slides and leadpipes. I have to say, however, that both Jim Pugh and Wayne Andre sound wonderful on them. I spent a couple of hours several months ago at the Shires factory playing several variations of his .509 horn, and was favorably impressed. I thought there was some design work yet to be done on it, but overall I really liked the horn. Great core to the sound, very balanced through all the registers, VERY rapid response, held sound well through the entire dynamic spectrum...like many of his horns I have played, they felt like a Bach or Kin