TROMBONE-L Digest 1971 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: brass band pay scale by Nigel Horne 2) RE: Rochuts. by Howard Weiner 3) Clefs/transpositions was Arbans book by "Jeff Albert" 4) Brass bands by Dave Molter 5) RE: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill by "Richardson, Tim" 6) Re: brass band pay scale by "Brian Frederiksen" 7) Re: The List by "Tom C. Shaddox" 8) Re: Brass bands by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 9) Re: Antique brass instruments for sale by Douglas Yeo 10) RE: Arbans book by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 11) Re: Etudes by "J L Jensen" 12) Re: Etudes by Earl Needham 13) RE: Antique brass instruments for sale by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 14) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill by "Steven Greenall" 15) How's Roy doing, anyway? (was:Re: Etudes - Also Sam's method book) by "Stacy A. Rasgon" 16) by "Huelsmann, Tom" 17) RE: Etudes - hardest in the world by "Richardson, Tim" 18) Stravinsky - Harminization on The Star Spnagled Banner" by jfrye 19) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by Douglas Yeo 20) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill by "Edward Solomon" 21) Re: Antique brass instruments for sale by "Matthew Stoecker" 22) Re: Arbans book by Gabriel Langfur 23) re: Etudes by "Daniel Pliskin" 24) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by "Gary D. Maxwell" 25) Re: Arbans book by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 26) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by "Rod Ellard" 27) Steely Dan by David Nuzum 28) Re: Etudes by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 29) Ophicleide sold by Douglas Yeo 30) clef studies by "Dale Cruse" 31) Re: Etudes by silversonic@att.net 32) RE: Arbans by "cobalt321" 33) Arbans vs. Clef Studies by yardlejw@uwec.edu 34) Re: Brass bands by "Adrian Drover" 35) Re: Etudes by "Adrian Drover" 36) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by "Adrian Drover" 37) Re: Brass bands by David Buckley 38) Re: Arbans book by David Buckley 39) Re: Steely Dan by "Daniel Pliskin" 40) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by Earl Needham 41) Re: Etudes by Earl Needham 42) Re: Star Spangled Banner by Mike Loewen 43) Re: Etudes by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 44) Re: Etudes by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 45) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on "The Star Spangled Banner" by "Aaron Roth" 46) "Four Of A Kind" by DenBlose@aol.com 47) RE: Arbans vs. Clef Studies by "Andrew Elms" 48) RE: Stravinsky - Harmonization on "The Star Spangled Banner" by jfrye 49) Ewald Symphony for Brass by "Jen and Andy Walls" 50) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill by "Steve Beck" 51) Re: The List by "Steve Beck" 52) Re: Brass bands by "Steve Beck" 53) Re: Arbans vs. Clef Studies by James Scott 54) Re: Arbans vs. Clef Studies by Beth Lewis 55) Re: Ewald Symphony for Brass by Walter Barrett 56) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by "Hal Starkey" 57) Re: Arbans book by jimandcat@juno.com 58) Re: influential books by jimandcat@juno.com 59) Re: Star Spangled Banner by "Dennis Clason" 60) Kenton Compositions (was: Star Spangled Banner) by "Dean McCarty" 61) Re: Ewald Symphony for Brass by "Chuck De Paolo" 62) Rochuts by Auxbone@aol.com 63) Re: Ewald Symphony for Brass by Douglas Yeo 64) Re: influential books by "Dale J. Cruse" 65) Re: Etudes by "Daniel Pliskin" 66) Re: influential books by "Daniel Pliskin" 67) RE: Brass bands by "Andrew Elms" 68) Ewald/Sam Goody by medskegn@uwec.edu 69) Re: Brass bands by David Burch 70) Re: Kenton Compositions (was: Star Spangled Banner) by David Burch 71) Re: Star Spangled Banner by Earl Needham 72) Bach LT8 info? by Douglas Yeo 73) Re: Bach LT8 info? by "Dale J. Cruse" 74) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by Larry White 75) Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 76) Re: Bach LT8 info? by "Steve Beck" 77) Re: Etudes by David Oliver 78) Doald White Sonata by hartsojw@uwec.edu 79) Re: Ophicleide sold by "Joseph Sellmansberger" 80) Re: Bach LT8 info? by Candice & Eric Swanson 81) Re: Doald White Sonata by Beth Lewis 82) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill by "Adrian Drover" 83) Re: Etudes by "Adrian Drover" 84) Re: Brass bands by "Adrian Drover" 85) Re: Arbans book by "Adrian Drover" 86) Re: Star Spangled Banner by "Adrian Drover" 87) Re: Ophicleide sold by "Adrian Drover" 88) Re: Star Spangled Banner by "Adrian Drover" 89) Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1970 by SHogg@aol.com 90) Re: Bach LT8 info? by Auxbone@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:51:57 +0000 From: Nigel Horne To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <01030612515702.01236@laptop.bandsman.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The problem about this discussion is that it's all too easy to fall foul of generalisations. Bands cover all levels of expertise from the oompah on the bandstand that the original poster said he doesn't want to play with, to musicians capable of playing the toughest symphonic standard. For example, the LSO has been known to appoint ex-principal cornets from the Black Dyke Mills bad as principal trumpets. Ex-trumpet players have come in as conductors. The one thing that unites us is our amateur status. I've played with, composed for, and conducted bands of all abilities and I feel comfortable with that statement. If I wasn't confident with the abilities of our bands I wouldn't be writing peices such as Etude (aside - sorry I haven't published the PDF of this one at www.bandsman.co.uk/downloads yet - will do so within the next couple of weeks). -Nigel Horne ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:03:15 From: Howard Weiner To: 8guion@jmls.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Rochuts. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010306140315.299f29aa@mail.privat.toplink.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 09:35 05.03.2001 -0600, Guion, David wrote: >On the other hand, someone mentioned Vobaron. Now, here I go writing from >memory again, but it seems to me that Lafosse said that Vobaron was the >first professor of trombone at the Paris Conservatory. I've seen Felix Vobaron mentioned as an interim professor at the Paris Conservatory, but the source of this information is very questionable. >A more thorough and >authoritative history of the Conservatory by Constant Pierre names Antoine >Dieppo as the first. He began in 1836. There were other trombonists listed as professors at the Conservatory before Dieppo, but as professors of solfege, not as professor of trombone. But even as professor of solfege, they would have played trombone in the orchestra of the Conservatory. >There was no French solo or etude >material before Vobaron and Dieppo started writing it. Their stuff continued >to be used for a long time after they died. But where is it now? Is it even >still in print? Even if it is, it won't make anyone's top 10 list. As far as I know, the Vobaron etudes are still alive and kicking. I played them when I was a kid. (OK, OK, that was centuries ago, I know!) The earliest etudes for trombone, written by Francoise Rene Gebauer, appeared ca. 1795. I published an article about them in the last issue (1999) of the Historic Brass Society Journal (the 2000 issue is still in the works and will contain an article by David Guion, BTW). The Gebauer etudes are only interesting from a historical point of view. They were followed between 1816-26 by a complete method by Sturm, which I haven't been able to find yet, and a moderately interesting book of etudes by J. Friedheim, dated 1821. Things really started with Victor Cornette's "Methode de trombone" in 1831. This was followed by Cornette's own "Methode du trombone alto, tenor et basse" (before 1842) and "Methode de trombone" (1854), Felix Vobaron's "Grand Methode de trombone (1834) and "Methode complete de trombone" (ca. 1852), Edmond Vobaron's "Methode de trombone" (ca, 1853), and Dieppo's "Methode complete" (1837). For more details see Benny Sluchin and Raymond Lapie, " Slide trombone teaching and method books in France (1794-1960)," Historic Brass Society Journal 9 (1997). This article, which unfortunately has to be approached with some caution, also includes a list of the trombone contest pieces at the Paris Conservatory from 1842-1960. A French publisher, Editions Musicales EuropŽennes, has recently started (re)publishing some of this stuff in a series called "Brass Urtext." Series editor is Benny Sluchin. Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - attributed to Frank Zappa "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzŠhltes Mittagessen" - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:39:01 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Clefs/transpositions was Arbans book Message-ID: <000f01c0a642$cf585960$c2d91542@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "James Scott" . One last bonus is that you can use clefs as a basis for > transposition once you're comfortable with this process (maybe read a > tenor sax part as tenor clef, or a baritone sax part as bass clef, etc). > It's a handy skill to have in a pinch. > > Jim Scott > Actually, that is a skill that I am required to use regularly. I have had to play entire shows reading trumpet or tenor parts. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:44:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Brass bands Message-ID: <384635997.983886271285.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A followup to the coversation generated by yesterday's brass band thread: Having been in a brass band for almost two years now, I will recommend it highly for any trombonist looking for challenging material and almost constant playing time. The beauty of the situation is that in a typical brass band, the section has only three players -- 1st, 2nd and bass. There is no laying back in brass band playing -- trombones are outnumbered 3 to one by cornets and it demands quite a bit of work to perform as a section and yet not become overwhelmed by the remainder of the low brass -- euphoniums, baritones and basses. It also will hone your tenor clef skillssince much of the brass band rep is written in Bb treble or tenor clef. For those of you who love classical music but don't like counting measures in an orchestral situation, brass band playing offers the best of both worlds: there are tons of classical transcriptions for brass band. You'll also have a chance to do some of the wonderful British-style marches that often go overlooked on this side of the Atlantic. It's true that as soloists, trombonists take back seat to the other members of a rass band, but there are a number of feature pieces for brass band trombone that are worthwhile. If you haven't heard brass band music, do yourself a favor and pick up any CD by the Grimethorpe Colliery Band (I recommed their Christmas album as well as "Melody Shop and "Paganini Variations." This is a brass band that not only has classical and traditional British music down pat, but also can swing! Also don't overlook Doug Yeo's New England Brass Band, which has afine Christmas CD available. For an a Americanized version of the British tradition, sample anything by Pittsburgh's River City Brass Band (www.rcbb.com). They have substituted French horns for Eb tenor horns and take a more pops approach to their repertoire (both wise moves, in my opinion) and have world-class players in every seat. Check out RCBB's "Big Band Brass" for a great version of "Slaughter on 10th Avenue" plus some other Amrican Staples. Or try "Heartland," their latest CD, which is a decidedly non-traditional collection of works, some commissioned, some written by the group's late founder, Bob Bernat. Again, you won't find much solo trombone work, but you'll be impressed by the tightness of the band and especially the playing of euphonium princiapl Brain Bowman, who left the band after "Heartland." So, if you can round up 10 cornetists who can actually play in tune, start a brass band. Then buy all the trombone features you can find. Dave Molter Pittsburgh, PA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:09:23 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'Adrian Drover'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BAB@LEE2> Adrian, You are being a little too kind to amateurs. True, there are some fabulous performers and some fine musicians out there. You run into them in the strangest places. For example, near Baraboo Wisconsin many old circus performers retired, and you might find some guys with unbelievable technique in a one of those summer bandshell bands. Of course the circus band tradition is dead now. (out of protest I no longer take my kids to the circus). I have played in some awesomely bad amateur groups, and I have played with some decent groups that had awesomely bad days. It is my subjective impression that the average level is a little better than it was, because the number of live groups of all sizes has declined so drastically, many of the poorer players are gone. But, sadly, not all. Trombone is an exception, there seem to be fewer but better players around. Where you used to see six players in a community band, now you often see one or two. yours, Tim Richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Drover [SMTP:slide.rule@adios.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:27 PM > To: glangfur@yahoo.com; Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gabriel Langfur" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:24 PM > Subject: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale > > > > Please don't mistake this for some kind of ugly elitism (I won't play > > with amateurs, I'm a PROFESSIONAL!). There is a difference between > > amateurs and professionals, and sometimes it's very difficult for a > > professional player to keep feeling good about himself/herself and the > > years of study he/she has put in when playing in a situation that is > > not at professional standards. > > Gabriel, you appear to be putting down the abilities of amateur musicians. > I have been a professional musician ever since I left school in 1956. I > gained much of my early musical training as a 3rd cornet player in a brass > band as a kid, and I am closely associated with amateur brass bands today > as a professional arranger/composer. > > I can tell you that the standard of playing in most of these bands is > awesome. I am sure that there are a lot of professional musicians who > would > love to achieve the standard of musicianship that these guys attain. They > abide by a discipline that many professionals would refuse to endure. It > could be said that they have a more professional attitude to playing than > many professionals. > > We need to understand the meaning of the word "amateur". It does not mean > a > player of low rank. It means a player who does what he/she does purely > for > the love of it. Because you and I make a living from playing music, by no > means puts us in any kind of superior position. > > Phew, glad I got that off my chest. > > A. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) > Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk > Business: studio@adios.co.uk > www.adios.co.uk > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:06:05 -0600 From: "Brian Frederiksen" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <005c01c0a646$e3a77d20$e0415aa6@hp500> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Last time I checked, there were about 200 member bands in NABBA. About twenty > five traveled to last year's competition, where it was again demonstrated that > the level of performance rises each year. The problem is that NABBA refuses to have a competition west of the Mississippi. There are a number of bands that just cannot afford to travel East where a vast majority of the NABBA board members reside. > As for pay-to-play, the NABBA rules prohibit payment of band members, and also > prohibit professional musicians from participating (though a "professional" is > generously defined as one who earns more than 75% of his income from music. > Teaching income is exempt.) This is a rule that is bogus and I have pointed this out to a number of NABBA board members who just seem not to care. Problem is that with income from interest, dividends and investments, many professional musicians would qualify while a young, struggling musician who maybe makes $10,000 between three orchestras would not. Let's face it, the Canadian Brass members would qualify as they probably make a lot of investment income while someone I know squeeks out a living playing a lot of side gigs and would be ineligable. Personally, I feel the NABBA board is made up of a batch of old ladies who, although they have good intentions, are hung up on the "way it has been done in England for 200 years" and not interested in making it into the 21st century! Brian Frederiksen WindSong Press PO Box 146 Gurnee, Illinois 60031 Phone 847 223-4586 Fax 847 223-4580 brianf@windsongpress.com www.windsongpress.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:22:54 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: The List Message-ID: <3AA4F2BE.3D93FE3E@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick wrote in part: >Can you give me more of these? Feed them to me! It says in the biographical notes on Dr. W, Edwards Demming, "the man who taught the Japanese quality", that he "studied music theory, played several instruments and composed two masses, several canticles and an easily sung version of the Star Spangled Banner. " For those of you who are not familiar with Dr. Demming's statistical work, among a great many honors he received "the Second Order Medal of the Sacred Treasure, from the Emperor of Japan, for improvement of quality and of Japanese economy, through the statistical control of quality". If you admire the consistency of Yamaha trombones, thank Dr. Demming, statistical mathematician and musician. Does former professional jazz sax and clarinet side man Alan Greenspan still play? They said that young Bill Clinton was trying to decide between a career in music and a career in politics in the summer of 1962 when he met President Kennedy. History will always wonder: what if he had met Elvis instead? Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ljshaddo@gte.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:44:47 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Brass bands Message-ID: <001f01c0a64c$1389d7e0$83c1b23f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listers, I'd like to add a slightly different spin to what Dave is saying, but on the whole I agree with him wholeheartedly. We formed a community brass band with the generous help of the Salvation Army almost 3 years ago, and and I'm one of the charter members--was at the very first rehearsal, and have not missed except when symphony services prevent me from attending our weekly rehearsals on Monday nights. A colleague of mine and I used to ride to rehearsals togehter sometimes, and right at the beginning, we decided that if this brass band thing was going to be a mediocre musical experience, we both had better things to do with our time, and one of those things was SLEEP. Well, 3 years later, and we're both still in the band. 98% of the time we have 99% of the people there at rehearsals, which for an amateur group around here, that kind of committment is unheard of. Yes, you do get to blow, and if you have a strong cornet section, it's great. Incidentally, our cornet section is the weakest of the sections in the band. Yet, the tenor horns, and the low brass do not cut them any slack whatsoever. We're not sympathetic to the fact that they have to perfrom some incredible gymnastics on the cornet--it's more of the idea of work hard on your fundamentals and do whatever you have to do in order to arrive at the musical standard. A week ago yesterday, the cornets FINALLY started to put some air in the horns and their style improved drammatically. There are many times whether I'd MUCH rather be at brass band rehearsals and play for free than to be at symphony rehearsals and get paid for it. There are times when I believe it would be in the best interest of everyone involved to just put the horns away and go home and come back when they're ready to get serious about music making. Yes, there's been times when I've just wanted to walk out and just say "forget it", and then there are moments when I wish that the rehearsals could go another 2 hours. Of course, being an orchestral player, the clef is not a problem, but every once in a while with that Bb transposition, you have to adjust accidentals, and that gets a bit tricky, but you bring a pencil and mark the things that you are likely to forget. If you do join a brass band, as soon as you're able, the band you join needs to take a tour of the Yorkshire area of England, where brass bands are really king. The people are wonderful, and there's a commraderie that is unlike anything else I've ever encountered. Musically, if money were no object, I'd move over there and I could play brass band music until the cows come home, and I can't imagine anything better. I have no desire to play in concert bands anymore since playing in our brass band. As far as the Salvation Army is concerned, the standard for the brass bands in England is MUCH higher than it is for the bands over here. I went to the 2000 Millenial Congress of the Salvation Army in Atlanta back in June of last year to hear the Hendon Band, which is probably the finest Salvation Army corps band in the world, and the Southern Territorial Band from here in the states was there as well, and I'm telling you---the Southern Territorial Band should have stayed home. They were way outclassed. As a matter of fact, the Hendon Band played after a 9 hour plane ride over here and if they played that well while being exhausted, I would hate to speculate on what would have happened if they had been rested. I sat there for 3 hours and was not bored for a second. They brought Robert Childs, who is principal euphonium for the Black Dyke band, and I cannot come with enough adjectives to adequately describe his artistry. To second Dave's endorsement, PLAY IN A BRASS BAND------PLAY IN A BRASS BAND----------------PLAY IN A BRASS BAND. I really miss it if I don't attend rehearsals for whatever reason. Just don't take on the British at their own game--you're likely to get anihilated. Just enjoy it for the art form that it is. If anyone here would be interested in forming a brass band in conjunction with the Salvation Army, please email me privately, and I'd be happy to share our experience with you. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Molter" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:44 AM Subject: Brass bands > A followup to the coversation generated by yesterday's brass band thread: > > Having been in a brass band for almost two years now, I will recommend it > highly for any trombonist looking for challenging material and almost > constant playing time. The beauty of the situation is that in a typical > brass band, the section has only three players -- 1st, 2nd and bass. There > is no laying back in brass band playing -- trombones are outnumbered 3 to > one by cornets and it demands quite a bit of work to perform as a section > and yet not become overwhelmed by the remainder of the low brass -- > euphoniums, baritones and basses. It also will hone your tenor clef > skillssince much of the brass band rep is written in Bb treble or tenor > clef. > > For those of you who love classical music but don't like counting measures > in an orchestral situation, brass band playing offers the best of both > worlds: there are tons of classical transcriptions for brass band. You'll > also have a chance to do some of the wonderful British-style marches that > often go overlooked on this side of the Atlantic. It's true that as > soloists, trombonists take back seat to the other members of a rass band, > but there are a number of feature pieces for brass band trombone that are > worthwhile. > > If you haven't heard brass band music, do yourself a favor and pick up any > CD by the Grimethorpe Colliery Band (I recommed their Christmas album as > well as "Melody Shop and "Paganini Variations." This is a brass band that > not only has classical and traditional British music down pat, but also can > swing! Also don't overlook Doug Yeo's New England Brass Band, which has > afine Christmas CD available. > > For an a Americanized version of the British tradition, sample anything by > Pittsburgh's River City Brass Band (www.rcbb.com). They have substituted > French horns for Eb tenor horns and take a more pops approach to their > repertoire (both wise moves, in my opinion) and have world-class players in > every seat. Check out RCBB's "Big Band Brass" for a great version of > "Slaughter on 10th Avenue" plus some other Amrican Staples. Or try > "Heartland," their latest CD, which is a decidedly non-traditional > collection of works, some commissioned, some written by the group's late > founder, Bob Bernat. Again, you won't find much solo trombone work, but > you'll be impressed by the tightness of the band and especially the playing > of euphonium princiapl Brain Bowman, who left the band after "Heartland." > > So, if you can round up 10 cornetists who can actually play in tune, start a > brass band. Then buy all the trombone features you can find. > > Dave Molter > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:50:02 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 10:05 PM -0500 3/5/01, Craig Parmerlee wrote: OK, I'll bite. All the ophecleides I have seen (which isn't very many) are ancient. Have any of these instruments been made in the past 50 years? Sure, there are several makers, the leading one of which is Robb Stewart in Oregon, USA. Other than the desire to keep history alive (a worthy pursuit), is there anything that recommends the sound of an ophecleide in the context of modern music? Is there anything it does better than conventional brass instruments? Is there a distinctive sound that would have merit in a modern setting? Yes and no. The ophicleide, despite the puns on its name ("awful clyde") has a very beautiful, pure sound, like a small bore euphonium or baritone horn, but with a different kind of full resonance. It is a keyed rather than a valved instrument, so the sound goes through the open holes as well as out the bell. As with any instrument, there are those who play it and those who play at it. Adrian's experience with dreadful two last minute ophicleide players is part of the reason historic instruments often get a bad rap. People who are enthusiasts who play them in public poorly don't help the situation. I think those of us who are trained musicians on a modern instrument can make the transition to a historic instrument well as well have a well developed ear and embouchure. In a modern orchestra, if no other adjustments were made, and an ophicleide were to be used instead of a modern tuba, it would likely be lost in the sound of the orchestra. But... if the modern forces were scaled down, and the conductor asked for the kind of leaner, streamlined sound (as opposed to the rather heavy sound which has become the generic "orchestra" sound these days), the clarity of the ophicleide would be a welcome sound. Of course, the ophicleide can be used in period instrument groups, and in chamber music with other instruments. Later this month, I will give a masterclass at New England Conservatory on historic brass instruments (I haven't put this on my website schedule page but will get to it after I finish shoveling the 2 feet of snow we got over night....). As part of the class I'll play a duo on the serpent with a cornetto player, some Mozart horn duos on ophicleide with a natural horn player, and play serpent in a harmonie music ensemble playing the Krommer Partita in E flat, op 79. I hope, also, to play the harmonie arrangement of the Allegretto of the Beethoven 7th Symphony with me playing my contrabass serpent (instead of the original contrabassoon part). All of this gives is great fun and to hear these instruments in a context rather than just imagining what they sound like as they hang on a wall in a museum is worth the effort to do so. There are many recordings which feature excellent historic brass players, ophicleide, serpent, keyed bugle and the rest. There is an extensive discography of recordings featuring serpent and ophicleide on the serpent website, which is maintained by Paul Schmidt at: http://shoga.wwa.com/~ocleide/ I can say this: I love playing the bass trombone and will probably always feel that way, and not just because it's my "job." But the pleasure I get from playing the serpent and ophicleide is different. My instruments which are 200 (serpent) and 150 (ophicleide) years old have a completely different feel than a modern instrument. They are "worked in" in a big way. I spent 2 hours playing ophicleide last night, reading out of the old ophicleide tutor book I found in the box of music I have which belonged to Eugene Adam. I was impressed at how sensible the book is laid out, and how one thing led to another. It's been a long time since I played a systematic trombone tutor - to do so at this point in my life (I haven't taught beginner students on trombone in almost 25 years) was very revealing. To play old melodies, to work on opera arias (which were valued in times past as study material much more than they are today) was special as well. A good place to start for anyone interested in historic instruments is the Historic Brass Society; visit their website at: http://www.historicbrass.org/ They publish a scholarly journal yearly as well as a jam-packed, "newsy" newsletter. I could go on and on with this. But, trust me, the ophicleide can be played beautifully, and the loss of this instrument to the tuba is truly a loss. As is the case in all of history, all "improvements" are not better, they are often just different. To have people revive instruments which have been forgotten can remind us of things which got run over with "progress" which, in their own right, have merit and worth. That's not true for everything which has been relegated to the dustbins of history, but if you were blindfolded and heard a fine ophicleide player on a good instrument , I have no doubt that you would want to play one, and would be convinced that you had never heard a sweeter, more resonant and full bodied brass sound. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:46:03 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Arbans book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain James Yardley wrote > > Which do you think would be more beneficial to the bass trombone > player; > > the trombone arbans book, or the tuba arbans book. I look forward to > > reading your responses. > > and James Scott answered > I'm going to suggest neither the trombone or tuba, and instead suggest > that you try the trumpet book. snip > One last bonus is that you can use clefs as a basis for > transposition once you're comfortable with this process (maybe read a > tenor sax part as tenor clef, or a baritone sax part as bass clef, etc). > It's a handy skill to have in a pinch. > Another bonus--if you learn to read the Arban in transposing treble clef, you will be prepared to play in a brass band. With the single exception of the bass trombone, all brass band parts are notated in transposing treble clef. Therefore, all of them have the same fingerings. So you will have taught yourself to read Bb bass (assuming you play Bb tuba), Eb bass (assuming you play it on Eb tuba), euphonium, baritone--anything you're ever likely to attempt. (Of course, if you fancy Eb soprano cornet, the fingerings are the same. Adjusting to the mouthpiece is another matter!) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > ---------- > From: James Scott[SMTP:jscot@ucalgary.ca] > Reply To: jscot@ucalgary.ca > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:01 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Arbans book > > James- > > If you can already read tenor clef, the > lines and spaces are the same as b flat treble clef (as in trumpet, tenor > sax or treble clef baritone) so you can work in the tenor trombone range. > By playing the exercises as if there were a bass clef there instead of > treble (add two flats for tenor, three for bass), they will be in a good > bass trombone range. You can take either of those clefs down another > octave > to work in your extreme low range, and you can use alto clef (add two > sharps) to work in the high range. Also, an exercise that is in "C" in > treble clef that you would normally play in b flat tenor clef, can also > easily be played in b natural by thinking of it in 5 sharps instead. This > can be done in any of the clef "transpositions", and thus make the book > more versatile. > > Jim Scott > > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 yardlejw@uwec.edu wrote: > > > > > List, > > > > > James Yardley > > Bass Trombone > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:48:29 -0500 From: "J L Jensen" To: , Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: <004d01c0a64c$9a6353e0$b8402c42@jljbone> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam said: "Go to the source....The history of the music of the world is available for $15 a pop at your local Tower Records or over the internet now...use it. Why are we playing the same tired etudes?..." Good advice! There are a lot of great etudes out there. Written by Strayhorn, Ellington. Gershwin, Monk, Arlen, Mingus....the list goes on. For example, take "Prelude to a Kiss" or "Shadow of Your Smile"....really learn it, make it sing. Then follow Sam's advice and: > Change the key. At random. ANY key. Slowly relearn the piece in the new > key, paying as much attention to the technical aspects of playing it as you > did originally. (Slide positions, tonguing tactics, breathing...all will be > different.) > On the simpler ones...or even a PORTION of any of them...play them > through the cycle of fifths, fairly rapidly...maybe three minutes in each > key. Four or five keys into this approach, you will begin to hear and play > the etude in new ways, and this will translate back into a new approach to > the original key. By the way...terrific book, Sam! Thanks. My two cents. jljbone@erols.com http://www.dcjazz.com/johnjensen ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:51:32 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010306074934.00be5c40@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:40 PM 3/5/01 -0500, BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com blasted the following out into the ether: Hey folks, do not forget guys like Simone Mantia. Also Etudes in the 1915 V. Cornette Method Book for Trombone. I am sure there were a lot of good trombonists around, but Marconi only sent sparks on his transmitter for a while. So how could you send music in Morse Code?? Or do you mean Continental Code? Morse was mostly used on railroads, with their solid clackers. Continental code is the standard we use still. Now -- music in code? Geez! It would rapidly get cumbersome -- let's see -- A1 half note = .- .---- .... .- .-.. ..-. -. --- - . Yep -- pretty cumbersome. Not any fun, either! 7 3 Earl KD5XB beldon wade Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:49:59 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Antique brass instruments for sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adrian Drover wrote: > I once sat in with a band on tuba playing French military style music. I > had 2 ophicleidists sitting next to me and quite honestly, I've never > heard > anything so horrible in my life. > That reminds me that Charles Burney (in 1770-something) described the sound of the serpent as "exactly resembling that of a great hungry, or rather angry Essex calf." But then, he didn't like the trombone, either. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:58:07 -0000 From: "Steven Greenall" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill Message-ID: <021601c0a64e$0e7ff2a0$ef11fea9@steve> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the "olden" days, I believe that for UK Brass Band Championships they classed amateurs as not making more than 5% of their total income from music performance. There is a theory that at the height of his career with the LSO, Denis Wick would still have been eligible :-) (i.e. his LSO income pailed into insignifigence alongside his mutes/mouthpiece business) IMHO, it is always best to judge on ability and not status - "amateur" brass bands have offered many players the opportunity to shine based on this principal. Steve ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:07:02 -0500 From: "Stacy A. Rasgon" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: How's Roy doing, anyway? (was:Re: Etudes - Also Sam's method book) Message-ID: <200103061509.KAA26931@melbourne-city-street.MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone have Roy Main's contact info? The last I heard he was retiring to Cambria, CA... I studied with him for a little bit while I was in LA a couple of years ago, it would be nice to see how he's doing. Please reply off list. Thanks! Stacy >Over the past few years on this list I've plugged Bob McChesney's Doodle >Studies and Etudes, Sam's approach to buzzing (as I've incorporated it, >at least), Roy Main's exercises that were passed down from a student of >his, and a few other things I've found helpful in my own playing (>including Chris Waage's lip slurs... ************************************************************ Stacy A. Rasgon MIT Department of Chemical Engineering 77 Massachusetts Avenue Bulding-Room 66-219 Cambridge, MA 02139 USA (617) 253-6586 srasgon@mit.edu ************************************************************ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:16:34 -0600 From: "Huelsmann, Tom" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Message-ID: <38865632B1D5D4118BD80060977CF885464B39@85-exch.sowashco.k12.mn.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- Which do you think would be more beneficial to the bass trombone player; the trombone arbans book, or the tuba arbans book. I look forward to reading your responses. James Yardley Bass Trombone Both, would be my answer, but it would be quite repetitious except for the range. Why not use the trombone Arbans and then add the Pares Scales for Tuba plus the Tyrrell Studies for Tuba, the Blazevich 70 Studies for Tuba, the William Bell Tuba Method or the 28 Advanced Studies for Tuba transcribed by Kuehn? There's so much literature out there. Thomas J. Huelsmann Director of Bands Park High School 8040 80th St S Cottage Grove MN 55016 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:20:59 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Etudes - hardest in the world Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BAC@LEE2> It might be worth looking at a recorder web site that offers the "Hardest exercise in the World." I don't think I have the URL anymore but a search should find it. I think the titel may have been "Second Hardest" IIRC, you had to play each exercise in all keys, major, minor and church mode, from memory. Well memory isn't the correct term, nor is by ear, but anyway without the sheet music for that key in front of you. > -----Original Message----- > From: sabutin@mindspring.com [SMTP:sabutin@mindspring.com] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 12:52 PM > > Fine...but make them new. > > It is no matter that they were assembled by Mr. Rochut in the early > 1900s...they were "old" then, and after any one of them having been played > for more than a few weeks by ANY trombonist, they are even older now. > > Here are some simple tactics to make them new(er). > > Change the key. At random. ANY key. Slowly relearn the piece in the new > key, paying as much attention to the technical aspects of playing it as > you > did originally. (Slide positions, tonguing tactics, breathing...all will > be > different.) > On the simpler ones...or even a PORTION of any of them...play them > through the cycle of fifths, fairly rapidly...maybe three minutes in each > key. Four or five keys into this approach, you will begin to hear and play > the etude in new ways, and this will translate back into a new approach to > the original key. > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:19:41 -0500 From: jfrye To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Stravinsky - Harminization on The Star Spnagled Banner" Message-ID: <3AA96E51@webmail.utk.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT List, I have just recenly gotten into listening to quite a bit of music by Igor Sratvinsky, and am cirious to know if any of you on the listhave ever played the Harminization on The Star Spangled Banner. If you haven't heard it, I would suggest that you try to find a copy a take listen. I think it sounds great, it uses some harmonies that I am not accustomed to hearing in that piece, but it makes it very ineteresting! -j ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:40:04 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 10:19 AM -0500 3/6/01, jfrye wrote: List, I have just recenly gotten into listening to quite a bit of music by Igor Sratvinsky, and am cirious to know if any of you on the listhave ever played the Harminization on The Star Spangled Banner. If you haven't heard it, I would suggest that you try to find a copy a take listen. I think it sounds great, it uses some harmonies that I am not accustomed to hearing in that piece, but it makes it very ineteresting! And when it was first played in Boston, Stravinsky nearly got arrested for tampering with the National Anthem, something which was at the time was (and possibly still is) illegal! -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:53:13 -0500 From: "Edward Solomon" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill Message-ID: <004201c0a655$b9802d30$0100a8c0@edwardsolomon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is a theory that at the height of his career with the LSO, Denis Wick > would still have been eligible :-) > (i.e. his LSO income pailed into insignifigence alongside his > mutes/mouthpiece business) Interesting, very interesting - LSO Principal Trombonists. I have just put up an interview with Denis Wick (when he retired from the LSO) from an early edition of The Trombonist onto The Trombonist Online (http://www.trombone-society.org.uk - look for it in the Articles section). It's a two-parter, focussing on LSO Principal Trombonists Jock Ashby and his successor, Denis Wick. Denis is still going strong. He now has a music publishing business, his latest venture, and refuses to give up. Good for him! There's also a profile of Alfred Flaszynski, one of the UK's most renowned post-war trombonists, originally from Poland. His life story makes for very intriguing reading. He was quite a character! __________________________________________ Edward Solomon (Bass Trombone) British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:57:39 -0800 From: "Matthew Stoecker" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0000_01C0A613.1DB710E0" Just a quickk note-unless he's moved very recently, Robb Stewart is based in Arcadia California, not Oregon. Matthew Stoecker ----- Original Message ----- From:ÊDouglas Yeo Sent:ÊTuesday, March 06, 2001 6:49 AM To:ÊTrombones and related issues forum. Subject:ÊRe: Antique brass instruments for sale At 10:05 PM -0500 3/5/01, Craig Parmerlee wrote: >OK, I'll bite. All the ophecleides I have seen (which isn't very >many) are ancient. Have any of these instruments been made in the >past 50 years? Sure, there are several makers, the leading one of which is Robb Stewart in Oregon, USA. > >Other than the desire to keep history alive (a worthy pursuit), is >there anything that recommends the sound of an ophecleide in the >context of modern music? Is there anything it does better than >conventional brass instruments? Is there a distinctive sound that >would have merit in a modern setting? Yes and no. The ophicleide, despite the puns on its name ("awful clyde") has a very beautiful, pure sound, like a small bore euphonium or baritone horn, but with a different kind of full resonance. It is a keyed rather than a valved instrument, so the sound goes through the open holes as well as out the bell. As with any instrument, there are those who play it and those who play at it. Adrian's experience with dreadful two last minute ophicleide players is part of the reason historic instruments often get a bad rap. People who are enthusiasts who play them in public poorly don't help the situation. I think those of us who are trained musicians on a modern instrument can make the transition to a historic instrument well as well have a well developed ear and embouchure. In a modern orchestra, if no other adjustments were made, and an ophicleide were to be used instead of a modern tuba, it would likely be lost in the sound of the orchestra. But... if the modern forces were scaled down, and the conductor asked for the kind of leaner, streamlined sound (as opposed to the rather heavy sound which has become the generic "orchestra" sound these days), the clarity of the ophicleide would be a welcome sound. Of course, the ophicleide can be used in period instrument groups, and in chamber music with other instruments. Later this month, I will give a masterclass at New England Conservatory on historic brass instruments (I haven't put this on my website schedule page but will get to it after I finish shoveling the 2 feet of snow we got over night....). As part of the class I'll play a duo on the serpent with a cornetto player, some Mozart horn duos on ophicleide with a natural horn player, and play serpent in a harmonie music ensemble playing the Krommer Partita in E flat, op 79. I hope, also, to play the harmonie arrangement of the Allegretto of the Beethoven 7th Symphony with me playing my contrabass serpent (instead of the original contrabassoon part). All of this gives is great fun and to hear these instruments in a context rather than just imagining what they sound like as they hang on a wall in a museum is worth the effort to do so. There are many recordings which feature excellent historic brass players, ophicleide, serpent, keyed bugle and the rest. There is an extensive discography of recordings featuring serpent and ophicleide on the serpent website, which is maintained by Paul Schmidt at: http://shoga.wwa.com/~ocleide/ I can say this: I love playing the bass trombone and will probably always feel that way, and not just because it's my "job." But the pleasure I get from playing the serpent and ophicleide is different. My instruments which are 200 (serpent) and 150 (ophicleide) years old have a completely different feel than a modern instrument. They are "worked in" in a big way. I spent 2 hours playing ophicleide last night, reading out of the old ophicleide tutor book I found in the box of music I have which belonged to Eugene Adam. I was impressed at how sensible the book is laid out, and how one thing led to another. It's been a long time since I played a systematic trombone tutor - to do so at this point in my life (I haven't taught beginner students on trombone in almost 25 years) was very revealing. To play old melodies, to work on opera arias (which were valued in times past as study material much more than they are today) was special as well. A good place to start for anyone interested in historic instruments is the Historic Brass Society; visit their website at: http://www.historicbrass.org/ They publish a scholarly journal yearly as well as a jam-packed, "newsy" newsletter. I could go on and on with this. But, trust me, the ophicleide can be played beautifully, and the loss of this instrument to the tuba is truly a loss. As is the case in all of history, all "improvements" are not better, they are often just different. To have people revive instruments which have been forgotten can remind us of things which got run over with "progress" which, in their own right, have merit and worth. That's not true for everything which has been relegated to the dustbins of history, but if you were blindfolded and heard a fine ophicleide player on a good instrument , I have no doubt that you would want to play one, and would be convinced that you had never heard a sweeter, more resonant and full bodied brass sound. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:59:05 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans book Message-ID: <20010306155905.26200.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- James Scott wrote: > James- > > I'm going to suggest neither the trombone or tuba, and instead > suggest > that you try the trumpet book. That's a great suggestion, because the trumpet book has whole sections that were left out of the original trombone version - including the Phrasing Studies, a collection of short melodies (Opera arias, etc!) for legato and phrasing study. Perfect for transposing for range, sight reading, etc, etc. as they're shorter and typically cover a less wide range than a Bordogni/Rochut. However, you can now buy the Alessi/Bowman version of the trombone/euphonium book, which restores those sections and has LOTS of extremely valuable commentary from Messrs.(?) Alessi and Bowman. I'll go out on a limb and say I think it's worth the $50, particularly if you don't already have an Arban's book. I would advise against buying the tuba version. I haven't seen it, granted, but bear in mind that at least 80% of your life as a professional bass trombone player will be spent in and above the bass clef staff. Practice low, of course, but don't practice ONLY low. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:42:52 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: re: Etudes Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I basically lost interest in classical guitar lessons when I had to practice The Merry Farmer and didn?t like it. When I got to that tune in my piano lessons, I was old enough to ask for a different piece. I fell in love with a Handel oboe concerto, when I was still getting headaches from blowing the thing. I practiced that sucker for years, until I could play it well and it was a fabulous learning experience, for me. My point is that finding a piece that excites the student is of major importance. There?s always something to be learned, in any piece. The best piece is the one that keeps the student jazzed, not the one that?s next in the tutorial. But is it really so hard to have trombones students read things that are written in treble clef? We could be reading violin, flute and oboe pieces if that weren?t so much of a hurdle. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:00:51 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: yeo@yeodoug.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: <3AA517C3.E41384CC@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas Yeo wrote: > And when it was first played in Boston, Stravinsky nearly got > arrested for tampering with the National Anthem, something which was > at the time was (and possibly still is) illegal! ============================================================================ If it is still illegal, it must be one of those illegalities we put aside for the "right" of expression and the "right" of destruction. The only group I have not heard do their own rendition of our National Anthem is the "Grateful Dead", but then maybe I haven't been to enough gatherings where the National Anthem is even still performed, or debauched. All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > > -Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:56:53 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans book Message-ID: <002701c0a65e$72fe9f00$8cefb23f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good advice, Gabe, and to you, James, I would recommend practicing the Arbans trombone book from the very beginning, both where it's written and an octave down. Exercises 9 & following are excellent, and in my opinion, the object is to play as free and easily as possible, and in order to play these exercises properly, your fundamentals, such as good air, good embouchure, and an unobtrusive articulation must be working properly. There are many, many students who cannot play the first 2 pages of long tones properly., and as far as I'm concerned, if you can't do the first page or 2 right, then you'll have problems with the rest of the book. I just got a copy of the trimpet version for my daughter, who turned 10 yesterday, and we took turns swapping bars on the first page of long tones. (She plays cornet, but perhaps we'll convert her to trombone later.) After the first couple of exercises, we swapped every 2 bars. The idea is for her to play notes the same length as I do with the same ease of production. I have also been doing this with quite a few of my students, and it teaches them to clone my sound, and it's a real challenge for me to sound as good as I can right off the bat. Also, basics, such as putting the slide in the right place, getting a big breath and blowing long (not necessarily loud) can be much more easily addressed here where there are fewer distractions. As far as the Alessi version being worth $50, I'd say that it is--I sold all of my Carl Fischer editions to buy Joe's, and there's a lot of good advice for trombone players, and let's face it, trombone pedagodgy has changed quite a bit since the Carl Fischer version came out. I had a student switch from tenor to bass last week, and I'm having him playing the beginning of the Arbans book both where it's written and down an octave. Wonderful practice for making good decisions as far as what valve/slide combinations to use, and to do it efficiently. After he gets to the point where his fundamentals are good, then I'll move him on to the Aharoni, but I suspect that he'll be in the Arban's book for at least 6 months to a year. Sincerely, Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Langfur" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Arbans book > --- James Scott wrote: > > James- > > > > I'm going to suggest neither the trombone or tuba, and instead > > suggest > > that you try the trumpet book. > > That's a great suggestion, because the trumpet book has whole sections > that were left out of the original trombone version - including the > Phrasing Studies, a collection of short melodies (Opera arias, etc!) > for legato and phrasing study. Perfect for transposing for range, sight > reading, etc, etc. as they're shorter and typically cover a less wide > range than a Bordogni/Rochut. > > However, you can now buy the Alessi/Bowman version of the > trombone/euphonium book, which restores those sections and has LOTS of > extremely valuable commentary from Messrs.(?) Alessi and Bowman. I'll > go out on a limb and say I think it's worth the $50, particularly if > you don't already have an Arban's book. > > I would advise against buying the tuba version. I haven't seen it, > granted, but bear in mind that at least 80% of your life as a > professional bass trombone player will be spent in and above the bass > clef staff. Practice low, of course, but don't practice ONLY low. > > Gabe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:02:49 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: <003d01c0a65f$47560ea0$527bfea9@Ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As if Whitney Houston didn't have enough problems. Rod > And when it was first played in Boston, Stravinsky nearly got > arrested for tampering with the National Anthem, something which was > at the time was (and possibly still is) illegal! > > -Doug Yeo ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:08:11 -0500 From: David Nuzum To: Trombones Listserve Subject: Steely Dan Message-ID: <3AA5197B.309C9C82@neumedia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4E96332E3A4A784C811E4714" This came to me from a college professor friend of mine. I know we're supposed to keep posts to trombone-related subjects, however with Steely Dan winning a grammy this year, this post is appropriate. Hope we get a chuckle from it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Friends; It is with this letter that we, the Fans Of Real Music (FORM), officially denounce and protest the selection of Steely Dan "Two Against Nature" as the Grammy Award's Record Of The Year. We, the loving fans of Eminem, Madonna, Brittany Spears, Coolio, N'sync, Christina Aguilara, The Backstreet Boys, Dr. Dre, Metallica, Limp Biscuit, Snoop Doggy Dog and The Deftones urge you to boycott ALL music that utilizes ANY of the following musical elements: Melody, harmony, phrasing, dynamics, arrangement, good intonation, tonality, modulation, improvisation, real instrumentation, more than two sections and lyrics we understand. We also ask you not to listen to any music that DOES NOT contain acceptable subject matter. Acceptable subject matter would include ONLY the following: death, gang rape, mayhem, gender changing, bigotry, masturbation, public defecation, penile implants, John Rocker, and school bombings. We are profoundly convinced that Mr. Dan is either a communist or an agent of Napster as his covert actions against the Great Recording Industry are obviously an attempt to take food out of the mouths of our country's most loved artists. We urge you to not purchase or see any music that is "jazz based" or has "jazz influence" as it undermines the purpose of music in America. We ask you to write your local representative as Steely Dan's attempts to destroy the Great Recording Industry can not go unnoticed. Now for the good stuff. Please forward this email to 15 of your closest friends and you will receive: A) A $20 gift certificate to Tower Records will pop up on your screen! B) A FREE automatic Napster download of Milli Vannelli singing "My Funny Valentine" C) Advance jpeg files from Hustler's upcoming spread on "The Dixie Chicks" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:17:16 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: <004701c0a661$4bd89ea0$8cefb23f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:42 PM Subject: re: Etudes > But is it really so hard to have trombones students read things that are > written in treble clef? We could be reading violin, flute and oboe pieces > if that weren?t so much of a hurdle. > > DanP Well, I've discussed this before, but I truly believe that a decent piano background is a major plus for a music education. It hasn't hurt me any, and I know that I don't have the discipline required to learn much of the standard piano repetoire, but I have a great appreciation for it, and besides that, I am a major jazz piano fan, listening every chance I get to Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans, Marian McPartland, and anyone else that really stimulates me musically. I even have a baby grand piano in my home, and I've made a fair amount of money playing jazz piano. You see, pianists need to learn bass and treble clef at the same time, and besides that, the piano is foundational for theory---the students who never study the piano have a most horrible time in college music theory and ear training. Most jazz artists know enough piano to play the changes of the tunes they perform. I still don't think that they've come up with a better system of learning the lines and spaces for treble clef than Every Good Boy Does Fine and the spaces spell FACE. The bass clef, as you all know, is Good Boys Do Fine Always and the spaces are All Cow Eat Grass, or any other words that fits those letters. I learned that over 30 years ago and have never had any problems. Every once in a while you'll encounter treble clef in the solo trombone literature. If you already have a good working knowledge of it, it's easy. Just think--High C is on the 3rd space--no need for ledger lines. High F is on the 5th line. As far as the reading of violin and flute and oboe music, all 3 of those play in concert pitch just like we do, so you just lower the stuff to your own octave, and there you are. So I contend that it's not that big of a deal. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:39:03 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Ophicleide sold Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" BTW, that ophicleide I mentioned on the list the other day that was for sale on eBay went today for $2026.99. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:39:20 -0800 From: "Dale Cruse" To: Subject: clef studies Message-ID: <200103060939.AA725090642@dalecruse.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I learned the same way and was just thinking about applying these learning devices for the tenor, alto and soprano clefs. Perhaps if we taught them earlier, kids could grasp these other clefs more quickly. My suggestions: Tenor clef lines: Doing Fine Always Comes Easy Tenor Clef spaces: Eating Good Brings Digestion Alto clef lines: For All Cows Eat Grass Alto clef spaces: Good Boys Deserve Fudge Soprano Clef lines: All Cows Eat Grass - Burp! (I think kids will really like this one!) Soprano Clef spaces: Boys Deserve Fudge Always Just a thought. Dale J. Cruse dale@dalecruse.com http://www.dalecruse.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Reply-To: trbnplyr@earthlink.net Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:17:16 -0500 >I still don't think that they've come up with a better >system of learning the lines and spaces for treble clef than Every Good Boy >Does Fine and the spaces spell FACE. The bass clef, as you all know, is Good >Boys Do Fine Always and the spaces are All Cow Eat Grass, or any other words >that fits those letters. I learned that over 30 years ago and have never had >any problems. __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:07:12 +0000 From: silversonic@att.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu (Trombone List), trbnplyr@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: <20010306180713.VJAY25433.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Hello all: >From the mouths of babes... With regard to teaching the names of the lines and spaces of the trable and bass staffs, I was teaching general music to fifth graders in Ohio when _I_ was taught one. A young fellow asked "why do we just use the word FACE for the spaces?" He proposed that we use "Fat Albert Causes Earthquakes"!!! I've used it ever since!!! I've been following this thread very closely, and I agree with much of what has been said with regard to playing material for voice and/or other instruments. Learning to make these transpositions at sight has been an INVALUABLE tool on a number of gigs that I've been on. It is a skill that has rewarded me with more than one return call from a bandleader or two. Peace, Tom Sousa Rochester, NY > I still don't think that they've come up with a better > system of learning the lines and spaces for treble clef than Every Good Boy > Does Fine and the spaces spell FACE. The bass clef, as you all know, is Good > Boys Do Fine Always and the spaces are All Cow Eat Grass, or any other words > that fits those letters. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:10:46 -0500 From: "cobalt321" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Arbans Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howza 'bout the trumpet version in tenor clef down an octave or two. There is a lot more music in it as well as duets on simple tunes for phrasing, sound and style. Fritz Graf Instructor of Low Brasses MSD of Wayne Twp. Marion Co. Indianapolis, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]O n Behalf Of Huelsmann, Tom Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:17 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: -----Original Message----- Which do you think would be more beneficial to the bass trombone player; the trombone arbans book, or the tuba arbans book. I look forward to reading your responses. James Yardley Bass Trombone Both, would be my answer, but it would be quite repetitious except for the range. Why not use the trombone Arbans and then add the Pares Scales for Tuba plus the Tyrrell Studies for Tuba, the Blazevich 70 Studies for Tuba, the William Bell Tuba Method or the 28 Advanced Studies for Tuba transcribed by Kuehn? There's so much literature out there. Thomas J. Huelsmann Director of Bands Park High School 8040 80th St S Cottage Grove MN 55016 ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:37:40 -0600 From: yardlejw@uwec.edu To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Arbans vs. Clef Studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List, I've been really surprised by the response I've gotten regarding my question about the Arbans book. Most people have suggested that I buy the trumpet book and learn to transpose. I realize that being versatile in all clefs and transposing is important, but wouldn't a clef studies book be more appropriate? Right now, I'm most interested in learning the exercises that the Arbans has to offer, not how to read them a million different ways. It seems efficient, and I may switch to the trumpet book once I'm comfortable with the exercises themselves, but isn't it more practical right now, to start off basic? I probably should have mentioned in my first post that I'm not familiar with the Arbans method, because I've never used it before (insert gasp here). It sort of relates to the discussion about method books in that my teacher just didn't use it with me. It was stated in the other thread that it's not the book that makes you great, it's the teacher that teaches you how to play out of the book. My teacher taught me out of different books and I have no regrets from him doing so. I borrowed the tuba book from a friend of mine yesterday (and only got through a little bit of it because the darn janitors kicked me out of the building last night), and found it to be in a comfortable range. Granted, I only got through a couple pages of it... He also mentioned that the tuba book is more similar to the original trumpet version than the trombone book is (I don't know if this is true for the new Alessi version). Any thoughts? James Yardley Bass Trombone ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:41:00 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Brass bands Message-ID: <00ac01c0a675$a4338c40$450ffd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Molter" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: Brass bands > So, if you can round up 10 cornetists who can actually play in tune, start >a brass band. Then buy all the trombone features you can find. I have some in my catalog for tenor and bass 'bone, and even euph (if you're into that) with brass band. Check out my site. Sorry, no ophicleide solos yet. End of blatant ad. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:41:27 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: <00ae01c0a675$b9e745e0$450ffd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Needham" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Etudes > Now -- music in code? Geez! It would rapidly get cumbersome -- > let's see -- > > A1 half note = .- .---- .... .- .-.. ..-. -. --- - . > > Yep -- pretty cumbersome. Not any fun, either! Howzabout the first 4 notes of Beethoven's 5th, dot-dot-dot-daaah, used as the "V" for victory call in WW2? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:41:57 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: <00af01c0a675$c0c82320$450ffd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Yeo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" > And when it was first played in Boston, Stravinsky nearly got > arrested for tampering with the National Anthem, something which was > at the time was (and possibly still is) illegal! I remember going to a concert of the Stan Kenton Orchestra in Birmingham, England in the '60s, where the band finished up playing their own arrangement of "God Save the Queen". It is the most beautiful version of our national anthem I have ever heard, but I'm not sure if Her Royal Highness would have approved. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:49:44 -0500 From: David Buckley To: trbnplyr@earthlink.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Brass bands Message-ID: <3AA53F58.7CAB94E4@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As someone who spent all of my formative years playing with an SA band, it is most interesting to read Paul and Dave's comments. At the moment, I play with a concert band, an orchestra and a brass band and truly playing in a brass band is about as much fun as a musician can have in an upright position. Having said that, the opportunity tp play real orchestral music not transcriptions, which has been mine for the last five years, makes up for all the rest counting. From a repertoire point, SA music is absolutely outstanding, chaallenging for the players and often more accessible for an audience than much contesting music. Glad you enjoyed Hendon Paul. Stephen Cobb and his father Roland are old friends. I did my first major band weekend as BM of the Hamilton Temple SA band in 1969 with Roland Cobb. There would probably be an argument in the UK as to whether Enfield or Hendon is the best band. Enfield may be more technical but Hendon has a great warm sound. It is surprising that they brought Bob Childs to Atlanta as they have excellent soloists in the band. The Southern Territory Band is the weakest of the USA Staff bands probably because their players come from DC to Florida and they have limited rehearsals. None of the American bands are up to the ISB and certainly none of the NABBA bands are in the class of the UK Championship bands. Having said that, Bram Gregson, one of the best brass band conductors in North America and an adjudicator at several NABBA contests says that the quality of US bands improves every year. I hope to attend NABBA this year and find out for myself. My band, the Weston Silver Band, has not entered for several years as the executive has decided that the time preparing for the contest could better be spent in other ways. I'm not a big contesting fan but it seems to have had a good impact on US standards and of couse UK technical standards from the contesting bands set the pace for the world. Regards. Dave. "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: > Listers, > > I'd like to add a slightly different spin to what Dave is saying, but on > the whole I agree with him wholeheartedly. We formed a community brass band > with the generous help of the Salvation Army almost 3 years ago, and and I'm > one of the charter members--was at the very first rehearsal, and have not > missed except when symphony services prevent me from attending our weekly > rehearsals on Monday nights. A colleague of mine and I used to ride to > rehearsals togehter sometimes, and right at the beginning, we decided that > if this brass band thing was going to be a mediocre musical experience, we > both had better things to do with our time, and one of those things was > SLEEP. Well, 3 years later, and we're both still in the band. 98% of the > time we have 99% of the people there at rehearsals, which for an amateur > group around here, that kind of committment is unheard of. Yes, you do get > to blow, and if you have a strong cornet section, it's great. Incidentally, > our cornet section is the weakest of the sections in the band. Yet, the > tenor horns, and the low brass do not cut them any slack whatsoever. We're > not sympathetic to the fact that they have to perfrom some incredible > gymnastics on the cornet--it's more of the idea of work hard on your > fundamentals and do whatever you have to do in order to arrive at the > musical standard. > A week ago yesterday, the cornets FINALLY started to put some air in the > horns and their style improved drammatically. There are many times whether > I'd MUCH rather be at brass band rehearsals and play for free than to be at > symphony rehearsals and get paid for it. There are times when I believe it > would be in the best interest of everyone involved to just put the horns > away and go home and come back when they're ready to get serious about music > making. Yes, there's been times when I've just wanted to walk out and just > say "forget it", and then there are moments when I wish that the rehearsals > could go another 2 hours. Of course, being an orchestral player, the clef is > not a problem, but every once in a while with that Bb transposition, you > have to adjust accidentals, and that gets a bit tricky, but you bring a > pencil and mark the things that you are likely to forget. > If you do join a brass band, as soon as you're able, the band you join > needs to take a tour of the Yorkshire area of England, where brass bands are > really king. The people are wonderful, and there's a commraderie that is > unlike anything else I've ever encountered. Musically, if money were no > object, I'd move over there and I could play brass band music until the cows > come home, and I can't imagine anything better. I have no desire to play in > concert bands anymore since playing in our brass band. As far as the > Salvation Army is concerned, the standard for the brass bands in England is > MUCH higher than it is for the bands over here. I went to the 2000 Millenial > Congress of the Salvation Army in Atlanta back in June of last year to hear > the Hendon Band, which is probably the finest Salvation Army corps band in > the world, and the Southern Territorial Band from here in the states was > there as well, and I'm telling you---the Southern Territorial Band should > have stayed home. They were way outclassed. As a matter of fact, the Hendon > Band played after a 9 hour plane ride over here and if they played that well > while being exhausted, I would hate to speculate on what would have happened > if they had been rested. I sat there for 3 hours and was not bored for a > second. They brought Robert Childs, who is principal euphonium for the Black > Dyke band, and I cannot come with enough adjectives to adequately describe > his artistry. > To second Dave's endorsement, PLAY IN A BRASS BAND------PLAY IN A BRASS > BAND----------------PLAY IN A BRASS BAND. I really miss it if I don't attend > rehearsals for whatever reason. Just don't take on the British at their own > game--you're likely to get anihilated. Just enjoy it for the art form that > it is. > If anyone here would be interested in forming a brass band in > conjunction with the Salvation Army, please email me privately, and I'd be > happy to share our experience with you. > > Paul Kemp > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Molter" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:44 AM > Subject: Brass bands > > > A followup to the coversation generated by yesterday's brass band thread: > > > > Having been in a brass band for almost two years now, I will recommend it > > highly for any trombonist looking for challenging material and almost > > constant playing time. The beauty of the situation is that in a typical > > brass band, the section has only three players -- 1st, 2nd and bass. There > > is no laying back in brass band playing -- trombones are outnumbered 3 to > > one by cornets and it demands quite a bit of work to perform as a section > > and yet not become overwhelmed by the remainder of the low brass -- > > euphoniums, baritones and basses. It also will hone your tenor clef > > skillssince much of the brass band rep is written in Bb treble or tenor > > clef. > > > > For those of you who love classical music but don't like counting measures > > in an orchestral situation, brass band playing offers the best of both > > worlds: there are tons of classical transcriptions for brass band. You'll > > also have a chance to do some of the wonderful British-style marches that > > often go overlooked on this side of the Atlantic. It's true that as > > soloists, trombonists take back seat to the other members of a rass band, > > but there are a number of feature pieces for brass band trombone that are > > worthwhile. > > > > If you haven't heard brass band music, do yourself a favor and pick up any > > CD by the Grimethorpe Colliery Band (I recommed their Christmas album as > > well as "Melody Shop and "Paganini Variations." This is a brass band that > > not only has classical and traditional British music down pat, but also > can > > swing! Also don't overlook Doug Yeo's New England Brass Band, which has > > afine Christmas CD available. > > > > For an a Americanized version of the British tradition, sample anything by > > Pittsburgh's River City Brass Band (www.rcbb.com). They have substituted > > French horns for Eb tenor horns and take a more pops approach to their > > repertoire (both wise moves, in my opinion) and have world-class players > in > > every seat. Check out RCBB's "Big Band Brass" for a great version of > > "Slaughter on 10th Avenue" plus some other Amrican Staples. Or try > > "Heartland," their latest CD, which is a decidedly non-traditional > > collection of works, some commissioned, some written by the group's late > > founder, Bob Bernat. Again, you won't find much solo trombone work, but > > you'll be impressed by the tightness of the band and especially the > playing > > of euphonium princiapl Brain Bowman, who left the band after "Heartland." > > > > So, if you can round up 10 cornetists who can actually play in tune, start > a > > brass band. Then buy all the trombone features you can find. > > > > Dave Molter > > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > > > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:54:17 -0500 From: David Buckley To: trbnplyr@earthlink.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans book Message-ID: <3AA54069.97B8B9D3@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And all along, I didn't think anyone played anything in Arbans except the Carnival of Venice Variations. Dave. "Paul D. Kemp Jr." wrote: > Good advice, Gabe, and to you, James, I would recommend practicing the > Arbans trombone book from the very beginning, both where it's written and an > octave down. Exercises 9 & following are excellent, and in my opinion, the > object is to play as free and easily as possible, and in order to play these > exercises properly, your fundamentals, such as good air, good embouchure, > and an unobtrusive articulation must be working properly. There are many, > many students who cannot play the first 2 pages of long tones properly., and > as far as I'm concerned, if you can't do the first page or 2 right, then > you'll have problems with the rest of the book. > I just got a copy of the trimpet version for my daughter, who turned 10 > yesterday, and we took turns swapping bars on the first page of long tones. > (She plays cornet, but perhaps we'll convert her to trombone later.) After > the first couple of exercises, we swapped every 2 bars. The idea is for her > to play notes the same length as I do with the same ease of production. I > have also been doing this with quite a few of my students, and it teaches > them to clone my sound, and it's a real challenge for me to sound as good as > I can right off the bat. Also, basics, such as putting the slide in the > right place, getting a big breath and blowing long (not necessarily loud) > can be much more easily addressed here where there are fewer distractions. > As far as the Alessi version being worth $50, I'd say that it is--I sold > all of my Carl Fischer editions to buy Joe's, and there's a lot of good > advice for trombone players, and let's face it, trombone pedagodgy has > changed quite a bit since the Carl Fischer version came out. > I had a student switch from tenor to bass last week, and I'm having him > playing the beginning of the Arbans book both where it's written and down an > octave. Wonderful practice for making good decisions as far as what > valve/slide combinations to use, and to do it efficiently. After he gets to > the point where his fundamentals are good, then I'll move him on to the > Aharoni, but I suspect that he'll be in the Arban's book for at least 6 > months to a year. > > Sincerely, > > Paul Kemp > Chattanooga Symphony > www.trbnplyr.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gabriel Langfur" > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:59 AM > Subject: Re: Arbans book > > > --- James Scott wrote: > > > James- > > > > > > I'm going to suggest neither the trombone or tuba, and instead > > > suggest > > > that you try the trumpet book. > > > > That's a great suggestion, because the trumpet book has whole sections > > that were left out of the original trombone version - including the > > Phrasing Studies, a collection of short melodies (Opera arias, etc!) > > for legato and phrasing study. Perfect for transposing for range, sight > > reading, etc, etc. as they're shorter and typically cover a less wide > > range than a Bordogni/Rochut. > > > > However, you can now buy the Alessi/Bowman version of the > > trombone/euphonium book, which restores those sections and has LOTS of > > extremely valuable commentary from Messrs.(?) Alessi and Bowman. I'll > > go out on a limb and say I think it's worth the $50, particularly if > > you don't already have an Arban's book. > > > > I would advise against buying the tuba version. I haven't seen it, > > granted, but bear in mind that at least 80% of your life as a > > professional bass trombone player will be spent in and above the bass > > clef staff. Practice low, of course, but don't practice ONLY low. > > > > Gabe > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:56:48 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Steely Dan Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Friends; It is with this letter that we, the Fans Of Real Music (FORM), officially denounce and protest the selection of Steely Dan "Two Against Nature" as the Grammy Award's Record Of The Year. We, the loving fans of Eminem, Madonna, ... PLEASE! It is hard enough to read through some of the email that comes to me from humans, but to start spreading email that comes from fans, is a bit much. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:01:25 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010306125939.00a4df00@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:40 AM 3/6/01 -0500, Douglas Yeo blasted the following out into the ether: And when it was first played in Boston, Stravinsky nearly got arrested for tampering with the National Anthem, something which was at the time was (and possibly still is) illegal! I don't think it IS illegal. In fact, when the Star spangled Banner was first adopted as our national anthem, it was defined as "the words and music that make up the Star Spangled Banner". With a definition like that, anyone can perform it any way they wish. NOW -- where can I get a nice arrangement for big band? I know I've heard a really nice one, but it's been too many years and I can't remember who did it. Thanks, Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:04:12 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: "Adrian Drover" Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010306130317.00c1af00@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:41 PM 3/6/01 +0000, Adrian Drover blasted the following out into the ether: > Now -- music in code? Geez! It would rapidly get cumbersome -- > let's see -- > > A1 half note = .- .---- .... .- .-.. ..-. -. --- - . > > Yep -- pretty cumbersome. Not any fun, either! Howzabout the first 4 notes of Beethoven's 5th, dot-dot-dot-daaah, used as the "V" for victory call in WW2? Oh! I thought he meant how to send music VIA code! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:18:01 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Loewen To: Earl Needham Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Star Spangled Banner Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Earl Needham wrote: > NOW -- where can I get a nice arrangement for big band? I know I've > heard a really nice one, but it's been too many years and I can't remember > who did it. My favorite is Bob Curnow's arrangement for Stan Kenton. Sierra Music lists it in their catalog, but it's: "Another re-scoring of the original arrangement done for Stan Kenton. A lower key for younger players. No solo piano. " http://www.sierramusic.com/ Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html The B9 Robot Builders Club http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/B9/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:25:27 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian May not be fun but you can get all those notes in the trifocal musicians cut on your glasses if they are in code. Saves neck bending. Beldon Wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:31:40 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: needhame@yucca.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Naw, I meant that the first Marconi radio was only good for code sending. Couldn't listen to music with one tone dit dit dit daa. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:42:33 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on "The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Earl said aloud while typing: I don't think it IS illegal. In fact, when the Star spangled Banner was first adopted as our national anthem, it was defined as "the words and music that make up the Star Spangled Banner". With a definition like that, anyone can perform it any way they wish. Apparently, the premiere of the Stravinsky must have made someone in power pretty angry, because I heard the same thing that Doug mentioned...and the word I heard leveled at Igor was treason. Boy, too bad my post on modernization (which I sent three days ago) got censored out or lost in the shuffle or something; I forget the details, but I wrote something about being too used to tradition. Anyhow, I participated in a performance of the work last year for our orchestra's 10th anniversary. It's hardly a masterpiece, but it does have some interesting and quite Stravinskian chords and contrapuntal sections. -Aaron Roth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:43:19 EST From: DenBlose@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: "Four Of A Kind" Message-ID: <3e.851d04e.27d6a5e7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3e.851d04e.27d6a5e7_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline I recall getting a post for a concert this coming weekend but can't recall where or when. ÊCould someone supply me with the details, please. Dennis ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:46:49 -0500 From: "Andrew Elms" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Arbans vs. Clef Studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Still buy the good ol' trumpet version. It won't take but a little while to get used to playing Bb treble. If you want to work more in the low register, take everything down an octave. I don't even really consider that transposing. Buying the trumpet book should give you the original, as intended by Arban since that seems to be your goal. Additionally, it should hopefully be less edited than other versions. The transposition part of exercise should just be a bonus. After you do it for a week or two, it won't even seem like transposing any more. For fun with clefs, try Blazevich clef studies. They start simple and get hairy. Great for working around various clefs. Playing in one clef at a time is a good skill, but the Blazevich will be helpful for switching effortlessly between clefs. Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of yardlejw@uwec.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:38 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Arbans vs. Clef Studies List, I've been really surprised by the response I've gotten regarding my question about the Arbans book. Most people have suggested that I buy the trumpet book and learn to transpose. I realize that being versatile in all clefs and transposing is important, but wouldn't a clef studies book be more appropriate? Right now, I'm most interested in learning the exercises that the Arbans has to offer, not how to read them a million different ways. It seems efficient, and I may switch to the trumpet book once I'm comfortable with the exercises themselves, but isn't it more practical right now, to start off basic? I probably should have mentioned in my first post that I'm not familiar with the Arbans method, because I've never used it before (insert gasp here). It sort of relates to the discussion about method books in that my teacher just didn't use it with me. It was stated in the other thread that it's not the book that makes you great, it's the teacher that teaches you how to play out of the book. My teacher taught me out of different books and I have no regrets from him doing so. I borrowed the tuba book from a friend of mine yesterday (and only got through a little bit of it because the darn janitors kicked me out of the building last night), and found it to be in a comfortable range. Granted, I only got through a couple pages of it... He also mentioned that the tuba book is more similar to the original trumpet version than the trombone book is (I don't know if this is true for the new Alessi version). Any thoughts? James Yardley Bass Trombone ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:06:04 -0500 From: jfrye To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Stravinsky - Harmonization on "The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: <3AAD2491@webmail.utk.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The last I heard, the work was still considered "illegal" in 11 states. although I am not sure which ones those may be. -j >===== Original Message From bassrange@hotmail.com ===== >Earl said aloud while typing: >> I don't think it IS illegal. In fact, when the Star spangled Banner >>was first adopted as our national anthem, it was defined as "the words and >>music that make up the Star Spangled Banner". With a definition like that, >>anyone can perform it any way they wish. > >Apparently, the premiere of the Stravinsky must have made someone in power >pretty angry, because I heard the same thing that Doug mentioned...and the >word I heard leveled at Igor was treason. >Boy, too bad my post on modernization (which I sent three days ago) got >censored out or lost in the shuffle or something; I forget the details, but >I wrote something about being too used to tradition. >Anyhow, I participated in a performance of the work last year for our >orchestra's 10th anniversary. It's hardly a masterpiece, but it does have >some interesting and quite Stravinskian chords and contrapuntal sections. > -Aaron Roth >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:13:15 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" Subject: Ewald Symphony for Brass Message-ID: <008b01c0a682$43586640$1c471bd0@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0088_01C0A658.597EF800" I am programming a concert for our school groupÊThe Academy Brass to perform in the spring. One of our other faculty members wants to do Ewald's Symphony for Brass. ButÊalas, it's up to the trombone teacher to organize it. I have two questions about the piece for those of you who have played/ heard it. #1 - Is there a recommended recording of the piece I could purchase to help with my learning curve? #2 - This question is actually a bunch of related questions. I am in the process of ordering the piece. I found out that it's actually his Brass Quintet #1. I'm not sure where the name Symphony for Brass came from. Is it a sub-title or was it added later? In researching where to buy it, I came acrossÊa few editions. Does anyone know anything about these versions? Is one better than the others? Is there a suggested version to purchase? Here are the three I've found. EWALD, V. / KING, R. published by ROBERT KING MUSIC COMPANY SYMPHONY (QUINTET #1) [2 TRPTS/HN/TRBN/BAR(TBA)] QUINTETS EWALD, V.Ê published by MCNAUGHTAN BRASS QUINTET NO. 1 EWALD/ Ed. DONALD MILLER published by ??? (I saw it on Hickey's web-site) QUINTET NO 1,ÊOP 5 (Miller) Edited by Donald Miller from the original version (2 cornets, altohorn, tenorhorn, and tuba) for the modern brass quintet consisting of Bb trumpets, F horn, trombone, and tuba. Set in three movements Moderato-Adagio non troppo lento-Allegro moderato ÊÊÊÊÊÊ Is the second one listed here the original? I am going to have a brass choir perform the piece which will consist of trumpets, horns, trombones, a baritone, and tubas. Thanks in advance for your help. I will certainly be in your debt, Andy Walls Trombone, Theory, Academy Brass The Pennsylvania Academy of Music p.s. - On a related topic, I am going toÊprogram a trumpet solo (sorry - not trombone) for one of our students to perform with the brass choir. I'm looking for a relatively easy ballad, something like Trumpeter's Lullaby, Londonderry Air, etc. I say easy because our students have recitals the next week and I don't want to make it too difficult, not because the trumpet student couldn't play something more advanced. Any recommendations or leads to existing arrangements for trumpet solo with brass choir? I wrote to Emerson and asked for a catalog since they don't have one online (at least I couldn't find a catalog). I figure there's got to be a nice ten-piece arrangement from across the pond.Ê ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:14:01 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale - amateur skill Message-ID: <00f501c0a682$e89349e0$8d0c0923@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Richardson, Tim Of course the circus band > tradition is dead now. It is? I play in one next Sunday. It's a riot. You know, a trombone really can make an elephant charge. (I know, I should take away his American Express.) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:14:53 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: The List Message-ID: <00f601c0a682$ea249840$8d0c0923@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Tom C. Shaddox" > They said that young Bill Clinton was trying to decide between a career in music and a career in politics in the summer of 1962 when he met > President Kennedy. History will always wonder: what if he had met Elvis > instead? I suppose in that case, then only his sax playing would suck. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:17:49 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Brass bands Message-ID: <00f701c0a682$eb0f9480$8d0c0923@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." Just don't take on the British at their own > game--you're likely to get anihilated. I'm surprised no one mentioned the Brass band of Battle Creek. I dare say it would take quite a band to "annihilate" it. I had the pleasure of hearing our own Wayne Dyess play in it a couple of years ago and they were awesome. -Steve ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:28:03 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: yardlejw@uwec.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans vs. Clef Studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII James- I'll reply to this again, and try to be a bit more specific. I don't know what level you're playing at, but if you can already read tenor clef you can read b flat treble clef. The lines and spaces of the clef will be the same - "C"(3rd space) in treble clef b flat, sounds as a b flat- which is the same note as b flat (3rd space) in tenor clef. All you have to do is add 2 flats to the key signature to get the concert pitch key - and you will have to adjust accidentals on "b's" and "e's". Changing the music to bass clef is much the same, except that written "C" in treble clef now becomes third space "e flat". You will have to add 3 flats to the key signature now to make it work, and will have to watch out for accidentals on "b", "e", and "a". Before you dismiss this process, take a look at some easy treble clef music, and see if you can make it work - if you can, then you will have no problem with Arban's, although you may have to concentrate your work in the beginning of the book for a month or two until you're more comfortable with the process. Playing the Trumpet book primarily in bass clef will put it in a range between the Trombone and the Tuba book, which is a more natural "money range" for the bass trombone. Tenor clef will be the same range as the trombone book, and tenor clef down an octave will be the same as the tuba book. I'm really just trying to save you some money here - one book will do all of that with a little thought, and you will be able to get your clefs together at the same time. Take a look at a trumpet book and without even playing anything, just imagine that it's a trombone book in bass clef and look where the notes fit on the staff and you'll see that the range will be perfect for bass trombone - down to pedal bflat and up to about e flat or f. Again, I suggest eventually using tenor clef and octave switching to expand the range, but by using a bass clef "transposition" of the trumpet book, you will be starting right in the middle of your range. Hope this helps! Jim Scott On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 yardlejw@uwec.edu wrote: > > List, > > I've been really surprised by the response I've gotten regarding my > question about the Arbans book. Most people have suggested that I buy the > trumpet book and learn to transpose. I realize that being versatile in all > clefs and transposing is important, but wouldn't a clef studies book be more > appropriate? Right now, I'm most interested in learning the exercises that > the Arbans has to offer, not how to read them a million different ways. It > seems efficient, and I may switch to the trumpet book once I'm comfortable > with the exercises themselves, but isn't it more practical right now, to > start off basic? I probably should have mentioned in my first post that I'm > not familiar with the Arbans method, because I've never used it before > (insert gasp here). It sort of relates to the discussion about method books > in that my teacher just didn't use it with me. It was stated in the other > thread that it's not the book that makes you great, it's the teacher that > teaches you how to play out of the book. My teacher taught me out of > different books and I have no regrets from him doing so. I borrowed the > tuba book from a friend of mine yesterday (and only got through a little bit > of it because the darn janitors kicked me out of the building last night), > and found it to be in a comfortable range. Granted, I only got through a > couple pages of it... He also mentioned that the tuba book is more similar > to the original trumpet version than the trombone book is (I don't know if > this is true for the new Alessi version). Any thoughts? > > James Yardley > Bass Trombone > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:44:17 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: yardlejw@uwec.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans vs. Clef Studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, the Arban's for trumpet has some pieces (duets and phrasing-type studies I think) that the [old] trombone version doesn't. But the trumpet book has no slide position chart ;) Maybe someone who's purchased the Alessi/Bowman edition could let us know if it has everything the original trumpet book has. FYI, another trombone book "borrowed" from trumpeters is the Schlossberg daily drills. But the trombone version of it is even farther away from the original than the trombone version of the Arban's is. (both were done after Schlossberg's death using old manuscripts so one can't say one's more 'authentic,' but the trumpet version makes more sense in its layout (to me anyway)). Since you're at a university, check out the trumpet Arban's from your music library (or borrow it from someone) and compare it with the trombone and tuba versions to be sure it's really going to be useful for you before buying though. Beth Lewis On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 yardlejw@uwec.edu wrote: > List, > > I've been really surprised by the response I've gotten regarding my > question about the Arbans book. Most people have suggested that I buy the > trumpet book and learn to transpose. I realize that being versatile in all > clefs and transposing is important, but wouldn't a clef studies book be more > appropriate? Right now, I'm most interested in learning the exercises that > the Arbans has to offer, not how to read them a million different ways. It > seems efficient, and I may switch to the trumpet book once I'm comfortable > with the exercises themselves, but isn't it more practical right now, to > start off basic? I probably should have mentioned in my first post that I'm > not familiar with the Arbans method, because I've never used it before > (insert gasp here). It sort of relates to the discussion about method books > in that my teacher just didn't use it with me. It was stated in the other > thread that it's not the book that makes you great, it's the teacher that > teaches you how to play out of the book. My teacher taught me out of > different books and I have no regrets from him doing so. I borrowed the > tuba book from a friend of mine yesterday (and only got through a little bit > of it because the darn janitors kicked me out of the building last night), > and found it to be in a comfortable range. Granted, I only got through a > couple pages of it... He also mentioned that the tuba book is more similar > to the original trumpet version than the trombone book is (I don't know if > this is true for the new Alessi version). Any thoughts? > > James Yardley > Bass Trombone > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:47:49 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Ewald Symphony for Brass Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 3/6/01 4:13 PM, Jen and Andy Walls at jenandandy@pa.net sent forth into the cosmos: > I am programming a concert for our school group The Academy Brass to perform > in the spring. One of our other faculty members wants to do Ewald's Symphony > for Brass. But alas, it's up to the trombone teacher to organize it. I have > two questions about the piece for those of you who have played/ heard it. > > #1 - Is there a recommended recording of the piece I could purchase to help > with my learning curve? > > #2 - This question is actually a bunch of related questions. I am in the > process of ordering the piece. I found out that it's actually his Brass > Quintet #1. I'm not sure where the name Symphony for Brass came from. Is it > a sub-title or was it added later? In researching where to buy it, I came > across a few editions. Does anyone know anything about these versions? Is > one better than the others? Is there a suggested version to purchase? Here > are the three I've found. > > EWALD, V. / KING, R. > published by ROBERT KING MUSIC COMPANY > SYMPHONY (QUINTET #1) > [2 TRPTS/HN/TRBN/BAR(TBA)] QUINTETS > > EWALD, V. > published by MCNAUGHTAN > BRASS QUINTET NO. 1 > > EWALD/ Ed. DONALD MILLER > published by ??? (I saw it on Hickey's web-site) > QUINTET NO 1, OP 5 (Miller) > Edited by Donald Miller from the original version (2 cornets, altohorn, > tenorhorn, and tuba) for the modern brass quintet consisting of Bb trumpets, F > horn, trombone, and tuba. Set in three movements Moderato-Adagio non troppo > lento-Allegro moderato > > > Is the second one listed here the original? I am going to have a brass choir > perform the piece which will consist of trumpets, horns, trombones, a > baritone, and tubas. Thanks in advance for your help. > > I will certainly be in your debt, > Andy Walls > Trombone, Theory, Academy Brass > The Pennsylvania Academy of Music > Andy- I don't know the one published by Mc Naughtan, so I can't comment on that one. If I were getting one for a quintet, I'd get the Ensemble Publications/Donald Miller one, it's likely the closest to the original, which was only 5 parts. The Robert King needs 6 parts to sound right, as Mr. King (a baritone player) edited the original tuba part, and, to make it short, made two parts from it. The baritone gets all the high notes from the original tuba part, and does most of the faster-moving stuff. The tuba part in the King tends to stay low, sometimes plays in octaves with the baritone, and does not have all of the original material. For a brass choir, especially one with a weak tubist, the King may be the way to go, but it is unusable for a standard brass quintet. For a recording, I know there are recordings from the Empire Brass, and the Canadian Brass, both pretty good groups... -- Walter Barrett "When trombones are outlawed, only outlaws will have trombones!" Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:34:01 -0600 From: "Hal Starkey" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Stravinsky - Harmonization on The Star Spangled Banner" Message-ID: <00f501c0a688$fbc79ce0$0c381b41@KSCABLE.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D6_01C0A652.DE5DEB40" > At 10:19 AM -0500 3/6/01, jfrye wrote: > > >List, > > I have just recenly gotten into listening to quite a bit of music by Igor > >Sratvinsky, and am cirious to know if any of you on the listhave ever played > >the Harminization on The Star Spangled Banner. If you haven't heard it, I > >would suggest that you try to find a copy a take listen. I think it sounds > >great, it uses some harmonies that I am not accustomed to hearing in that > >piece, but it makes it very ineteresting! and Doug Yeo wrote: > And when it was first played in Boston, Stravinsky nearly got > arrested for tampering with the National Anthem, something which was > at the time was (and possibly still is) illegal! and I wrote: Does anybody know when Stravinsky penned this piece?Ê On our next orchestra concert in Wichita we are doing Unter dem SternenbannerÊOuverture (Under the star-spangled banner) by Heinrich Zollner (1854-1941). Zollner was a German composer and conductor who resided in NY from 1890-1898. I don't know when this was written either (his Op. 88). It appears to be a theme & variations work that goes through 4 or 5 different keys, major and minor. Looks like it might be fun. Any Listers played this before? I'd like to know the background of it. Hal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1971 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:04:39 -0800 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: yardlejw@uwec.edu Subject: Re: Arbans book Message-ID: <20010306.135716.-29281.3.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_7046.371e.1e8c On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:20:12 -0600 James Yardley wrote: >>>Which do you think would be more beneficial to the bass trombone player; the trombone arbans book, or the tuba arbans book. I look forward to reading your responses.<<< ================= The suggestion about using the trumpet is good, but if you don't want to deal with all the key signature stuff and want the student to read quickly in his/