TROMBONE-L Digest 1970 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Romance by Otto Hoser by "Steven Greenall" 2) RE: brass band pay scale by Dave Molter 3) OTJ Classifieds - Updated 3/5/2001 by Chris Waage 4) Re: The List by Mearl Danner 5) Musical Definitions by "Berggren, Erik" 6) Norman Bolter's website by Dave Molter 7) Re: Norman Bolter's website by Douglas Yeo 8) RE: Rochuts by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 9) RE: brass band pay scale by "Ted Toulouse" 10) RE: brass band pay scale by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 11) paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale by Gabriel Langfur 12) RE: Brass Band Vacancies for March 2001 by "Richardson, Tim" 13) One more BAM case question? by "Paul Johnston" 14) Re: Etudes - Also Sam's method book by Don Wampler 15) Re: Etudes - Also Sam's method book by sabutin@mindspring.com 16) Re: One more BAM case question? by Gabriel Langfur 17) re: Etudes by sabutin@mindspring.com 18) re: Etudes by Earl Needham 19) re: Etudes by Earl Needham 20) re: Etudes by sabutin@mindspring.com 21) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale by "Adrian Drover" 22) Re: trombone literature by "Art Triggs" 23) Method books - Ronka by "David Bryan" 24) Recent Literature Discussions on List by "Bart Roberts" 25) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale by Gabriel Langfur 26) Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale by Douglas Yeo 27) LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT BUNTROCK HALL by "Brian Frederiksen" 28) Ian Bousfield by Earl Needham 29) Re: Antique brass instruments for sale by Craig Parmerlee 30) Re: brass band pay scale by David Burch 31) Re: Antique brass instruments for sale by "Matthew Stoecker" 32) Re: Etudes by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 33) Re: Barry Mcdonald Arrangements by "William Huber" 34) Arbans book by yardlejw@uwec.edu 35) Re: Arbans book by James Scott 36) Re: Antique brass instruments for sale by "Adrian Drover" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:47:23 -0000 From: "Steven Greenall" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Romance by Otto Hoser Message-ID: <013c01c0a572$6cd495e0$ef11fea9@steve> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0139_01C0A572.6C884AA0" Dear List Had this come to me - anyone have any info that can be helpful? Reply to me direct - thanks. Steve Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 2:02 AM Subject: Interested in information regarding rare trombone solo and composer Mr. Greenall, I have a recording of this piece played by Alain Trudel titled Romanze by Otto Hoser (1897-1959). I have searched high and low and can find no record of this (beautiful) trombone solo, nor can I find any information on Otto Hoser. If you know anything about this piece, have any knowledge of how I could obtain it, or know any biographical information about the composer ... or how I might be able to find it myself, please let me know. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:34:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <384741363.983799260547.JavaMail.root@web313-wrb> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In response to the following post by Ted Toulouse : "Does anyone know the average pay scale for brass bands in Europe/Australia/New Zealand. Considering the American idea of a Town Band (a group that meets twice a week during summer months and plays in a park band shell) , it doesn't seem like it would be worth playing for some of the "Town Bands" listed on the vacancies list." I'll say this: As Adrian Drover pointed out, the vast majority of brass banders do it for love, which I think is reason enough to do anything ... except maybe thrash someone with a brick. Worth playing? Only you can determine what kind of payback makes playing worthwhile. I play in five amateur bands or orchestras throughout the year. In the past two years, I've made a total of $130 from playing in all of them. and that was for athree-week run of a musical that involved 15 services. Of the organizations I play in, only one is within a 20 minute drive (one way) of my home. A couple are an hour one way. I have driven as far as 200 miles round trip for a one-nighter with my brass band. At no time have I been reimbursed for gasoline or mileage for any of my trips. This doesn't by any means make me a martyr or noble: I do it because I love to play. That is payback enough for me. It's worth it. I'd wager than most of us on the list feel the same. I should add that for 20 years I drove as far as three hours one way to play one nighters for $50 as a rock n roll bassist. Although that was how I made my living, the motivation was still the same, and I'd have played for free if I'd had another source of income. But the feeling of satisfaction I get from playing for free today far surpasses anything I ever felt when I was paid to play. I'd much prefer to ditch my day gig and be paid to play, but the reality of the music scene in Pittsburgh these days precludes that possibility. There are trombonists here who can play me under the table without using a slide who can't get a paying gig in this town. Yet some of them refuse to take their horns out of the case unless they're paid. That's an attitude I will never understand. Dave Molter Pittsburgh, PA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 07:45:54 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: OTJ Classifieds - Updated 3/5/2001 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 7:46 a.m. CST on March 5, 2001 with 21 new ads. OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp OTJ Classifieds Frequently Asked Questions http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/faq.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris -- ________________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:12:02 -0600 From: Mearl Danner To: Nick Drozdoff Cc: Trombone Subject: Re: The List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe that I've heard that Albert Schweitzer was an organist of note. Quote from Encyclopedia.com: "Schweitzer was honored in many countries for his work as a scientist and humanitarian, his artistry as an organist, and his contributions as a theologian" We are having the same problem here in Alabama. Efforts to increase property taxes to fund education have failed with the implication that state funding for sports(!!) and music(no surprise) will suffer. I really can't determine whether the threat to withdraw funding is to improve the chances of getting the property tax increased ar a tactic to push the state lottery referendum ( which also failed). My sister and brother-in-law are music educatars at the university where I work, so anything that affects music education becomes a bit more personal. My own experience in a good high school band program (don't ask how long ago, please) has provided me with decades of enjoyment - both as a listener, and more recently, as as active participant. Best of luck with your web site. On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:53:58 -0800 Nick Drozdoff wrote: > Hello, listmates! > > This is an unusual post, but I hope I can get some ideas from some of you to > assist in a sad situation. > > A gentleman came to me a year or so ago for some coaching on trumpet. He > went on his way and I haven't heard from him since. I just got an email two > days ago from him that was quite interesting though. He has been working > hard on the ideas we shared during his lessons and wanted to let me know of > his progress. However, the gist of his note was to discuss what is > happening in the school district in which he teaches. > > The community of this district is not poor, with an average annual income of > $60K to $100K. Yet there has been serious school board rumblings impacting > everyone. They are threatening to eliminate the foreign languages program, > laying off 6 out 10 librarians, limiting the arts and eliminating music > altogether! If a specific tax referendum isn't passed, this district will > dedicate itself exclusively to the "three-R's" and nothing else! The arts > are an expendable luxury - a frivolous waste of time for the kids, according > to the school board and, if the referendum fails, according to the majority > of voters. > > I was deeply shocked and saddened. Then I thought about it. Libertyville, > near Illinois is a very wealthy district, yet they also have a widely known > resistance to passing tax referenda for education. Bensenville, Illinois is > not as well off as Libertyville, but their entire school district is in huge > trouble because they have not been able to get a funding referendum passed > in some ten years or so. I shouldn't be shocked. The notion that American > Politics puts our kids first or even that they are a high priority to the > public is one of the biggest lies promulgated in the last century. The fact > that teachers are among the lowest paid and overworked professionals in the > country is tribute to this fact. The fact that many schools are dumping the > arts and music is further tribute to this fact. > > MUSIC is not frivolous activity for our kids! It is a NECESSITY! As a > professional high school physics teacher for nine years now, I have found, > year after year that my best physics students are also musicians! I am not > exaggerating this matter at all. The mixing of art and science is good for > our kids and we need to be aware of that. > > Now to my solicitation of help form all of you. > > I am putting together a web page which will essentially be a list of people > who have been successes in music AND science/math or vice versa. Here are > some sample listings: > > Albert Einstein - Physicist/Violinist > Enrico Fermi - Physicist/pianist > Richard Feynman - Physicist/percussionist/artist > Alexander Borodin - Composer/Chemist > Peter I.Tchaikovsky - Composer/Mathematician > > Can you give me more of these? Feed them to me! > > Also, I am going to include lists of people who are currently applying both > sides of their abilities. Here is what I would like from you. > > Nick Drozdoff - Electrical Engineer/Physics Teacher/Professional Trumpeter > > Many of YOU on this very list are professional scientists, and > mathematicians and also musicians. Some of you are engineering and applied > science students who are still pursuing your music. Please send me an email > with a little one-line blurb about yourself such as mine above, and, with > your permission, I'll include it on my page. Heck, why don't you post it to > the list as well! I think it would be fascinating. > > I want to help folks in situations like that of my young friend to have a > few small resources that they can call upon. The young man came to me > originally to ask permission to print out and distribute a little essay that > I wrote on my physics of music web site called "Musicians Manifesto." I > want to add this new web page to that site as well. Hopefully, people will > see this list and think a little about how important music is. Now, we are > musicians on this list. We don't need to be told that music is a beautiful > language that transcends the spoken or printed word. However, those > conservative pragmatists who would drive taxpayers to vote against schools > might be a little more reluctant to do things such as is being done to this > school if they thought there was also a PRACTICAL use for music. Their kids > might excel in other areas as well. > > All political differences aside, I would be most grateful for your > assistance in my building of this little list. Just maybe, we can make a > little difference. > > Thanks, ladies and gentleman. > > Peace. > Nick Drozdoff > http://www.mp3.com/NickDrozdoff > http://www.geocitites.com/Vienna/3941 > > > ----------------------------------------- Mearl Danner Systems Programmer Email: jmdanner@samford.edu Samford University ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:19:53 -0600 From: "Berggren, Erik" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: Musical Definitions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's a little attempt at humor this Monday morning. My apologies if you've seen this before! There is trombone content! MUSICAL DEFINITIONS String Quartet: a good violinist, a bad violinist, an ex-violinist, and someone who hates violinists, all getting together to complain about composers. DŽtachŽ: an indication that the trombones are to play with their slides removed. Glissando: a technique adopted by string players for difficult runs. Subito Piano: indicates an opportunity for some obscure orchestra player to become a soloist. Risoluto: indicates to orchestras that they are to maintain stubbornly the correct tempo no matter what the conductor tries to do. Senza Sordino: a term used to remind the player that he forgot to put his mute on a few measures back. Preparatory Beat: a threat made to singers, i.e., sing, or else.... Crescendo: a reminder to the performer that he has been playing too loudly. Conductor: a musician who is adept at following many people at the same time. Clef: something to jump from before the mellophone solo. Transposition: the act of moving the relative pitch of a piece of music that is too low for the basses to a point where it is too high for the sopranos. Vibrato: used by singers to hide the fact that they are on the wrong pitch. Half Step: the pace used by a string bassist when carrying his instrument. Coloratura Soprano: a singer who has great trouble finding the proper note, but who has a wild time hunting for it. Chromatic Scale: an instrument for weighing that indicates half-pounds. Bar line: a gathering of people, usually among which may be found a musician or two. Ad libitum: a premiere. Cadence: when everybody hopes you're going to stop, but you don't. Caesura (aka "railroad tracks"): violin solo. Diatonic: low-calorie Schweppes. Lamentoso: with handkerchiefs. Virtuoso: a musician with very high morals. Music: a complex organization of sounds that is set down by the composer, incorrectly interpreted by the conductor, who is ignored by the musicians, the result of which is ignored by the audience. Oboe: an ill wind that nobody blows good. Opera: when a guy gets stabbed in the back and instead of bleeding, he sings. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:25:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Norman Bolter's website Message-ID: <384609430.983802312637.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know the URL of Norman Bolter's website? I think Doug Yeo posted it last month but I can't find it. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:38:12 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Norman Bolter's website Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 9:25 AM -0500 3/5/01, Dave Molter wrote: Anyone know the URL of Norman Bolter's website? I think Doug Yeo posted it last month but I can't find it. http://www.air-ev.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:35:09 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Rochuts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I can't help but wonder if the Rochuts are on many folks' top 10 lists > because that is what they were given by their teachers to use; i.e., the > old "we've always done it that way" syndrome. > Well, yes and no. Thirty years ago or so, I read a definition of an oboist as someone who scrapes reeds, dreams of playing in an orchestra, and practices out of a hundred-year-old method book. So here's a question for the double reeders on the list? Do oboists still use the Barret Method? (I think I'm remembering right.) I remember playing duets out of it with my sister when she was studying oboe. I'll bet that violinists still use etudes that are even older than that. So do pianists (Czerny, horrors of horrors.) On the other hand, someone mentioned Vobaron. Now, here I go writing from memory again, but it seems to me that Lafosse said that Vobaron was the first professor of trombone at the Paris Conservatory. A more thorough and authoritative history of the Conservatory by Constant Pierre names Antoine Dieppo as the first. He began in 1836. There was no French solo or etude material before Vobaron and Dieppo started writing it. Their stuff continued to be used for a long time after they died. But where is it now? Is it even still in print? Even if it is, it won't make anyone's top 10 list. The Rochut, Arban, Barrett, even Czerny, are given to students by teachers who worked on it when they were students. They found that it was useful. Those teachers were also probably assigned a bunch of other stuff that they haven't assigned to their students. Why? Because they found something they liked better. My graduate teacher, John Hill, mentioned one time that he was bored with Rochut etudes and would be very happy never to hear one again. Except that nothing else was available that accomplished the same purposes as well. Should he have thrown Rochut out in the hall and compiled his own etudes? That's certainly easier said than done. I don't see Rochut going the way of Vobaron and Dieppo any time soon. To change the subject somewhat, I like a collection of etudes by Gaettke. They are good preparation for 20th-century music because they have unusual meters, melodies and implied harmonies not based on traditional scales, and are short enough to introduce high school students to these concepts without adding a lot of confusion. Someone else mentioned the value of etudes that focus on one thing (like phrasing, legato, etc.) without adding the complication of additional technical difficulties. To me, the Gaettke etudes have this virtue. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:52:51 -0500 From: "Ted Toulouse" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dave, I totally agree with what you're saying. There have been several times when I've taken gigs just to get the experience of playing that music, or playing with those people, or just to get the horn on my face some more. And I've always enjoyed everything I've played in, even if I was learning what NOT to do at a gig (different subject). Frankly, right now I'm not playing in much of anything "extra" in the area and I really really miss playing the little gigs around me. My concern in my original post was to see if moving to Britain or Europe and taking a brass band audition would be FINANCIALLY worth it. To tell you the truth, I would play in every brass group in America if they exsisted like they do in the UK. I think it's great how the competition works and that they have that opportunity. I liken it to Drum Corps here in the US. Kids pay $2500 to give up their summer and be a part of a kick-butt experience and to me that's what it's all about. And it's an experience I wish I had. Where I'm at in my playing career now though, I can't justify moving to Europe to join an ensemble that doesn't pay. ************************************************************ * Ted R. Toulouse A Friend is Not Someone * * 1581 E. 400 Rd. you do Everything with, * * Lawrence, KS 66049 * * 785)887-8010 A Friend is Someone * * you'd do Everything for. * * 5707 Chinquapin Pkwy. * * Apt. E ttoulouse@hotmail.com * * Baltimore, MD 21239 ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK KU!! * * 410)435-1173 * ************************************************************ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:04:28 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , "'ttoulouse@hotmail.com'" Subject: RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ted Toulouse wrote: > To tell you the > truth, I would play in every brass group in America if they exsisted like > they do in the UK. > This is as good an occasion as any to mention that the North American Brass Band Association competition will be held in the Washington D.C. area the week after Easter. Brass bands aren't as common in the US as in the UK, but they are not all that hard to find. For more information, see http://www.nabba.org/ ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > ---------- > From: Ted Toulouse[SMTP:ttoulouse@hotmail.com] > Reply To: ttoulouse@hotmail.com > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:52 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: RE: brass band pay scale > > Dave, I totally agree with what you're saying. There have been several > times when I've taken gigs just to get the experience of playing that > music, > or playing with those people, or just to get the horn on my face some > more. > And I've always enjoyed everything I've played in, even if I was learning > what NOT to do at a gig (different subject). Frankly, right now I'm not > playing in much of anything "extra" in the area and I really really miss > playing the little gigs around me. > > My concern in my original post was to see if moving to Britain or Europe > and > taking a brass band audition would be FINANCIALLY worth it. I think it's > great how the competition works and that > they have that opportunity. I liken it to Drum Corps here in the US. > Kids > pay $2500 to give up their summer and be a part of a kick-butt experience > and to me that's what it's all about. And it's an experience I wish I > had. > Where I'm at in my playing career now though, I can't justify moving to > Europe to join an ensemble that doesn't pay. > > > > ************************************************************ > * Ted R. Toulouse A Friend is Not Someone * > * 1581 E. 400 Rd. you do Everything with, * > * Lawrence, KS 66049 * > * 785)887-8010 A Friend is Someone * > * you'd do Everything for. * > * 5707 Chinquapin Pkwy. * > * Apt. E ttoulouse@hotmail.com * > * Baltimore, MD 21239 ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK KU!! * > * 410)435-1173 * > ************************************************************ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:24:34 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <20010305162434.22823.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Dave Molter wrote: > In response to the following post by Ted Toulouse : There are trombonists here who can play me under the > table > without using a slide who can't get a paying gig in this town. Yet > some of > them refuse to take their horns out of the case unless they're paid. > That's > an attitude I will never understand. In my experience, the best way to establish yourself as a young musician is to play whenever, wherever anyone asks you. I've met contractors who have hired me many times, for very good work, at free gigs. You never know what will lead to well-paying work. At some point, you have to prioritize the gigs that pay well, but I will still generally say yes if my date book is free. Unfortunately I have to cancel sometimes, but everyone seems to understand as long as I take care of business in a timely manner. That said, there are some gigs that I will always think twice about, because I know I'll be miserable with the level of playing, or the incompetent conductor, or whatever. Some of the players you refer to probably feel they are better off staying home, practicing or spending time with their families, than doing gigs that they won't enjoy. Please don't mistake this for some kind of ugly elitism (I won't play with amateurs, I'm a PROFESSIONAL!). There is a difference between amateurs and professionals, and sometimes it's very difficult for a professional player to keep feeling good about himself/herself and the years of study he/she has put in when playing in a situation that is not at professional standards. I don't mean this post to slight the efforts of amateur musicians. I think amateur musicians are ESSENTIAL to the music world, and the arts in general. Just trying to explain the reasoning behind professionals who would rather stay home than play for free. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:40:20 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'Tom Izzo'" , sorenb@attglobal.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Brass Band Vacancies for March 2001 Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12BA5@LEE2> Sheesh, you guys have it easy, I have to pay the local brass band a LOT to let me play. yours, Tim Richardson PS that is why I never practice orchestral exerpts. I could never afford symphony work unless I win the lottery. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Izzo [SMTP:jeanvaljean@ntsource.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:47 PM > To: sorenb@attglobal.net; Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Brass Band Vacancies for March 2001 > > > > Up to now I have always thought they did it for free ! > > Yes they do. > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know the average pay scale for brass bands in > > Europe/Australia/New Zealand. > > Yes it's 00 lbs. > or $0.00 USD. > > Tom > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:41:58 -0600 From: "Paul Johnston" To: "Trombone-L \(E-mail\)" Subject: One more BAM case question? Message-ID: One more question for the new purchasers of the BAM bass bone case. Is the outside shell soft or hard. Meaning is it a gig bag on steroids or a cut down hard case. I am very interested in one but have a 10 year old, 4 year old and a dog. And even though they are all very good, accidents do occasionally happen. I have not had good luck with gig bags in the past Thanks for your input!!! Paul Bass Trombone - Fort Smith Symphony Associate Faculty - Low Brass - Westark College ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Paul Johnston - MCSE, MCT IT/Industrial Electronics Instructor College of Business and Industry Westark College 5210 Grand Ave. P.O. Box 3649 Fort Smith, AR 72913-3649 (501)788-7777 Fax (501)788-7780 pjohnsto@westark.edu ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:14:07 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: Trombone List Subject: Re: Etudes - Also Sam's method book Message-ID: <3AA3C95F.D76FEBF1@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just catching up on the weekend digests....I hope this animal isn't so dead that another whack is unwarranted... I often find that beating a dead horse is cathartic and the horse certainly doesn't mind much at that point. :-) I won't try to speak for Sam or others who've already commented on this topic, but I thought this might shed a bit of light on his original post. After the lesson that Sam gave me awhile back, his recommendation was for me to improve my use of alternate positions. The method material he suggested using with this assignment...? - Rochut Also, I haven't piped up yet about Sam's method book, mainly because I'm still working my way through it. I can guess that some may be reluctant to plunk down money for material that he's already made available online. Put that reluctance aside...much of the material in the book isn't online and the parts that are have been revised, expanded, clarified, and summarized to make the book purchase well worth it from what I've seen so far. And for those of you waiting for a fancy version from a big name publisher?...wouldn't you love to have an old string-bound manuscript of Arban's with his signature in it? Over the past few years on this list I've plugged Bob McChesney's Doodle Studies and Etudes, Sam's approach to buzzing (as I've incorporated it, at least), Roy Main's exercises that were passed down from a student of his, and a few other things I've found helpful in my own playing (including Chris Waage's lip slurs and some scale sheets that someone once referenced here). These may not make everyone's top ten list, but I can dern sure tell you that I'm a lot better player now than I was a couple of years ago. Bottom line for me: I only have so much practice time in a week. I'm going to spend that time doing what I believe is making me a better player, regardless or who wrote it, recommended it, or whether it's published. I've found that by incorporating some of the newer materials like those mentioned above I've added some "newness" and generated a bit of excitement to a practice routine that routinely used to fall into a rut. (By the way, this is NOT a "dis" on the standard top-tens. I'm still using Rochut, etc. on a daily basis. And Alex Iles' post has inspired me to go scrounge through my closet tonight for some of the gems I filed away years ago. Hmm...if it wasn't time for lunch, I'd think that thought just generated a bit of excitement. I guess I'll know if the feeling's still there after my TV dinner. :-) ) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:43:29 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Etudes - Also Sam's method book Message-ID: <200103051744.MAA24967@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:14 AM 3/5/01 -0600, you wrote: >Just catching up on the weekend digests....I hope this animal isn't so >dead that another whack is unwarranted... I often find that beating a >dead horse is cathartic and the horse certainly doesn't mind much at >that point. :-) > >I won't try to speak for Sam or others who've already commented on this >topic, but I thought this might shed a bit of light on his original >post. After the lesson that Sam gave me awhile back, his recommendation >was for me to improve my use of alternate positions. The method >material he suggested using with this assignment...? - Rochut ========================== That's right...I give many single lessons to players when I'm traveling, and I invariably try to use whatever material the students are already using to work on what they want to learn. One or two lessons is not enough time to effect a revolution in a player's repertoire of etudes and exercises, and the Rochuts are wonderful (and wonderfully common amongst most students) as positional exercises as well as to use to work on breathing, legato, and seamlessly traversing the various registers. ===================== > >Also, I haven't piped up yet about Sam's method book, mainly because I'm >still working my way through it. I can guess that some may be reluctant >to plunk down money for material that he's already made available >online. Put that reluctance aside...much of the material in the book >isn't online and the parts that are have been revised, expanded, >clarified, and summarized to make the book purchase well worth it from >what I've seen so far. And for those of you waiting for a fancy version >from a big name publisher?...wouldn't you love to have an old >string-bound manuscript of Arban's with his signature in it? ============================= Also/...ain't gonna BE any version from a big name publisher, because this is a small-audience book...I figure there are no more than 1000 English speaking trombonists in the whole world who are really interested in what I am presenting...and publishers simply do not pay enough in terms of royalties to make giving it to a publisher a viable option. I may have it translated into Spanish and Japanese, I may revise it for trumpet, french horn, and tuba/euphonium, and I may dress it up a little in the future w/ a fancier cover and some illustrations...but what's out there is basically what's going to BE out there, so if you're waiting for a bells and whistles edition...don't. I've got other things to do than gussy up a book so it will sell 17 more copies to a few dilettantes. ================================== > >Over the past few years on this list I've plugged Bob McChesney's Doodle >Studies and Etudes, Sam's approach to buzzing (as I've incorporated it, >at least), Roy Main's exercises that were passed down from a student of >his, and a few other things I've found helpful in my own playing >(including Chris Waage's lip slurs and some scale sheets that someone >once referenced here). These may not make everyone's top ten list, but >I can dern sure tell you that I'm a lot better player now than I was a >couple of years ago. > >Bottom line for me: I only have so much practice time in a week. I'm >going to spend that time doing what I believe is making me a better >player, regardless or who wrote it, recommended it, or whether it's >published. I've found that by incorporating some of the newer materials >like those mentioned above I've added some "newness" and generated a bit >of excitement to a practice routine that routinely used to fall into a >rut. ============== EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!! Down with ruts. (See my other, longer post today on the subject.) Later... ================================ S. > >(By the way, this is NOT a "dis" on the standard top-tens. I'm still >using Rochut, etc. on a daily basis. And Alex Iles' post has inspired me >to go scrounge through my closet tonight for some of the gems I filed >away years ago. Hmm...if it wasn't time for lunch, I'd think that >thought just generated a bit of excitement. I guess I'll know if the >feeling's still there after my TV dinner. :-) ) > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:45:59 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: One more BAM case question? Message-ID: <20010305174559.54801.qmail@web10308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Paul Johnston wrote: > One more question for the new purchasers of the BAM bass bone case. > Is the > outside shell soft or hard. Meaning is it a gig bag on steroids or a > cut > down hard case. It seems to be some kind of high density foam, so it's not entirely rigid. I'm guessing it's designed to absorb some shock rather than pass it on they way plywood does. I wouldn't check it on an airplane, but I think it offers better protection than a ProTec case. The only way to test, really, is a drop test. Steve Shires will probably do one when he has a case to look at. He found, for example, that the ProTec did better than the seemingly sturdier SKB Universal case, at a drop of 5 feet or so. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:51:34 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: re: Etudes Message-ID: <200103051752.MAA14458@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi... Sorry if this is a double post...I didn't receive it the first time I sent it, so here it is again. ############################################################################ ###################################At 09:10 PM 3/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/4/01 6:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, >chris@trombone.org writes: > ><< If you re-read what Sam originally wrote, I believe his comment wasn't >that they were not useful, but that there were many OTHER etudes which might >be better suited to the trombone. >> > >SAM WROTE: > ><< The predominance of the Rochut books is a sad commentary on the paucity >of trombone literature and/or the generally unimaginative/lazy mindset of >trombonists. There is nothing WRONG w/the Bordogni/Rochut etudes...they're >just Bb versions of a style of playing that was extant for a few years in the >1800s.>> > >Sam seems to speak his views very clearly. This is not a very positive >message for the many young trombonists who are members of this discussion >group. > >Stan > ====================== I believe this IS a positive message...I am POSITIVE that the Rochut exercises are "Bb versions of a style of playing that was extant for a few years in the 1800s". And I am EQUALLY positive that they are not particularly inspired or inspiring pieces of music. They're not BAD...just kinda "there"... Gertrude Stein once said of Oakland, California "There's no ' there' there." Same could be said for the Rochut exercises. Doug Yeo says they were first published in 1928. First of all...whatever did the poor trombonists do prior to their publication? I guess they just couldn't learn to play in this style until then. Poor fellas... Sure, they're "melodic", and certainly they "work" to teach trombonists how to play in a certain singing style...although I'd bet that today if you lined up the 20 greatest players in that general style they would all play the etudes radically differently and further that NONE of them would play anything LIKE the way Rochut played. (Further than that, I'll bet you Rochut didn't play them the way Bordogni meant them to be sung.) There's nothing "wrong" w/all this...it's just a very limiting approach to the instrument and music in general, and I suggest that the Rochut/Bordogni etudes be relegated to their proper place in the hierarchy of music...maybe one out of a thousand pieces that trombonists should study and master if they want to be great players. You want to learn how to play in a singing style? Do you REALLY want to learn how to play in that manner? Good. here's what you do, Buy some records of some great singers, and also some records of some great trombonists who play in a singing style. Don't limit yourself to one idiom (or even one instrument, for that matter)...listen to Dorsey, to Sinatra, to Nat King Cole and Arthur Pryor, to "Charlie Parker w/Strings" and Stan Getz's "Focus", to Pavarotti and Caruso, Nellie Melba and Bessie Smith, Joe Alessi and Lawrence Brown and Urbie Green and Jimmy Knepper, to Casals, to Rubinstein and Heifetz and Segovia. Sit down and learn how to play the pieces as closely as you can the way these musicians did. Don't write them down; don't think too much about them...just learn to play them AURALLY as closely as possible to the way they are played on the record. You want to learn how to play in the style that the Rochut etudes represent? Buy some Verdi, some Puccini, and listen to how the singers sing. (Only the good ones, please...most contemporary opera singers couldn't find a pitch in a carload, and cover their weakness w/ a massive vibrato and a heavy dose of attitude, makeup and costume.) Go to the source. When the Rochut etudes were assembled in the '20s, there WAS no other way to speak of to communicate this (or any other) style of music. Oh, there were scratchy records, yes, but it was much more difficult to really study the music in depth. Technology and the explosion of the recording industry has absolutely revolutionized the possibilities open to us as far as what we have available for study and how we can study it. The history of the music of the world is available for $15 a pop at your local Tower Records or over the internet now...use it. Why are we playing the same tired etudes? Having trouble transcribing a piece? Too fast? There are programs available (cheap...about the same price as all three Rochut books) that will slow the piece down on your computer W/OUT CHANGING THE PITCH (!!!) (I don't recommend making a practice of this when transcribing for musical/stylistic/performance purposes unless you're REALLY stuck...better to speed up[ your brain than slow down the music, plus it changes the EXPRESSIVE quotient of the music being studied to some unavoidable degree...) You still insist on using the Rochuts? Fine...but make them new. It is no matter that they were assembled by Mr. Rochut in the early 1900s...they were "old" then, and after any one of them having been played for more than a few weeks by ANY trombonist, they are even older now. Here are some simple tactics to make them new(er). Change the key. At random. ANY key. Slowly relearn the piece in the new key, paying as much attention to the technical aspects of playing it as you did originally. (Slide positions, tonguing tactics, breathing...all will be different.) On the simpler ones...or even a PORTION of any of them...play them through the cycle of fifths, fairly rapidly...maybe three minutes in each key. Four or five keys into this approach, you will begin to hear and play the etude in new ways, and this will translate back into a new approach to the original key. Want to make them more "modern"? Check this out...Take the original piece, starting on the original note, and choose (again at random) another key signature. Play the piece using the accidentals of that key...instant Ravel, instant Bartok. Instead of the tired old harmonic sequences of Bordogni, you have deconstructed (and REconstructed) the piece into something infinitely more interesting. (Curiously, this can be looked at as a test of the depth of certain music...do this to a Mozart melody, to one by Ravel or Debussy, and it usually gets weaker and less interesting. Do it to Bordogni and it only gets better. It still sings, it's just a little...NEWER.) Move the piece over rhythmically a half beat or a beat, so the phrases don't come clomping down on one every few bars.(Or, play it in another time signature...try adding a beat or two every bar, or playing the phrases w/out regard to their original meter, just long and short phrases followed by natural breaths.) Combine these rhythmic and modal changes and see what century you find yourself in. (If you're really lucky, it COULD be tomorrow.) I didn't include much of this in my method book, both because it was already too damned long and because this is just some stuff I've only recently begun to clarify in my own practice, but consider this... ANY practice that you do that is new in ANY way is going to be better for your playing than practicing the same old stuff the same old way. After about three weeks of most exercises and music (I leave out the real masters here...that's where the magic comes into play.) most of the juice has been extracted and you are left with the rind and some dried out old pulp. Try this...take any exercise that you do habitually and CHANGE IT. I don't care HOW you change it, just do so. A scalar exercise that you have played in 4/4 for years...add or subtract a note from it and play it in another meter, or just start it on another beat in the same meter, for that matter. Ditto harmonic exercises like the Remingtons or Schlossbergs. Make them new, make them even a LITTLE bit different, and watch how your playing improves. There is no reason on earth why we should be limited today to pieces that were written 75 years ago...not mediocre pieces, anyway. Too much water has flowed under our musical bridge, and there is a freedom available to us that would have caused rioting in the streets when Mr. Rochut was teaching in Boston. Use it. You want to practice old music...at LEAST practice Bach, Mozart and Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, the Italian operatic masters, the great French impressionists, Stravinsky, Bartok, Ives, Berg and Schoenberg. (Hot news flash here...these are ALL "old", although if you looked at the lists of favorite trombone music that were assembled here recently you would think that anything after about Brahms was written by wild eyed anarchists.) The trombone is in many ways a musical backwater...sure there are still pianists using Czerny and sure there are thousands of violinists hacking away at whatever they hack away at to sound the way they're supposed to sound to get into an orchestra...but there's a reason why Bartok wrote the Violin Concerto rather than the Trombone Concerto, if y'know what I mean, and it's not just because the trombone is a more limited instrument technically. It's because there aren't (and haven't been) enough trombonists w/some imagination, enough who are interested in THE NEW. This is changing, both in the Western European traditions and in more American styles. Change w/it...it will help you to play Bach (and Bordogni) better as well. That's about enough...gotta go practice my chromatically altered modes in 7/4 (broken up into 3 and 4 beats) starting on the third beat to prepare for a series of Louis Armstrong concerts I'm doing this week w/the Smithsonian Jazz Masterworks Orchestra. Really. Why? To stay fresh. Like Louis. Only later. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:01:16 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: re: Etudes Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010305105727.00aa53e0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:51 PM 3/5/01 -0500, sabutin@mindspring.com blasted the following out into the ether: Doug Yeo says they were first published in 1928. First of all...whatever did the poor trombonists do prior to their publication? I guess they just couldn't learn to play in this style until then. Poor fellas... Seems I recall that the trombone was more of a "doubling instrument" way back when. There WERE no good trombonists... Buy some records of some great singers, and also some records of some great trombonists who play in a singing style. Don't limit yourself to one idiom (or even one instrument, for that matter)...listen to Dorsey, to Sinatra, to Nat King Cole and Arthur Pryor, to "Charlie Parker w/Strings" and Stan Getz's "Focus", to Pavarotti and Caruso, Nellie Melba and Bessie Smith, Joe Alessi and Lawrence Brown and Urbie Green and Jimmy Knepper, to Casals, to Rubinstein and Heifetz and Segovia. Hey! You left out Willie Nelson, Buck Owens, and Johnny Cash!!! Mel Tillis, too -- and don't forget Hank Snow!!! Remember? I grew up in south Texas! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:04:57 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: re: Etudes Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010305110119.00bd1f00@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:51 PM 3/5/01 -0500, sabutin@mindspring.com blasted the following out into the ether: Change the key. At random. ANY key. Slowly relearn the piece in the new key, paying as much attention to the technical aspects of playing it as you did originally. (Slide positions, tonguing tactics, breathing...all will be different.) On the simpler ones...or even a PORTION of any of them...play them through the cycle of fifths, fairly rapidly...maybe three minutes in each key. Four or five keys into this approach, you will begin to hear and play the etude in new ways, and this will translate back into a new approach to the original key. Want to make them more "modern"? Check this out...Take the original piece, starting on the original note, and choose (again at random) another key signature. Play the piece using the accidentals of that key...instant Ravel, instant Bartok. Instead of the tired old harmonic sequences of Bordogni, you have deconstructed (and REconstructed) the piece into something infinitely more interesting. (Curiously, this can be looked at as a test of the depth of certain music...do this to a Mozart melody, to one by Ravel or Debussy, and it usually gets weaker and less interesting. Do it to Bordogni and it only gets better. It still sings, it's just a little...NEWER.) HEY! GOOD THOUGHT! I'll try that! Good stuff in that post! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:39:47 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: needhame@yucca.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: re: Etudes Message-ID: <200103051841.NAA28161@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:01 AM 3/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:51 PM 3/5/01 -0500, sabutin@mindspring.com blasted the following out >into the ether: >> >> Doug Yeo says they were first published in 1928. >> >> First of all...whatever did the poor trombonists do prior to their >>publication? >> >> I guess they just couldn't learn to play in this style until then. Poor >>fellas... > > Seems I recall that the trombone was more of a "doubling instrument" >way back when. There WERE no good trombonists... ===================== Not true. MANY fine trombonists in the late 1800s-early 1900. Every concert band had its trombone soloist. Not many were well recorded...but check out Arthur Pryor as a good example of the style. ===================== > >> >> Buy some records of some great singers, and also some records of some >>great trombonists who play in a singing style. Don't limit yourself to one >>idiom (or even one instrument, for that matter)...listen to Dorsey, to >>Sinatra, to Nat King Cole and Arthur Pryor, to "Charlie Parker w/Strings" >>and Stan Getz's "Focus", to Pavarotti and Caruso, Nellie Melba and Bessie >>Smith, Joe Alessi and Lawrence Brown and Urbie Green and Jimmy Knepper, to >>Casals, to Rubinstein and Heifetz and Segovia. > > Hey! You left out Willie Nelson, Buck Owens, and Johnny Cash!!! Mel >Tillis, too -- and don't forget Hank Snow!!! ============== Hank Williams too... =========================== > > Remember? I grew up in south Texas! > Earl > ============= They're everywhere... S. >Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or >mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) >Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) > >NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't >figure out how to get OFF the list. > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:27:25 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <004e01c0a5aa$7105c200$627c68d5@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Langfur" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:24 PM Subject: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale > Please don't mistake this for some kind of ugly elitism (I won't play > with amateurs, I'm a PROFESSIONAL!). There is a difference between > amateurs and professionals, and sometimes it's very difficult for a > professional player to keep feeling good about himself/herself and the > years of study he/she has put in when playing in a situation that is > not at professional standards. Gabriel, you appear to be putting down the abilities of amateur musicians. I have been a professional musician ever since I left school in 1956. I gained much of my early musical training as a 3rd cornet player in a brass band as a kid, and I am closely associated with amateur brass bands today as a professional arranger/composer. I can tell you that the standard of playing in most of these bands is awesome. I am sure that there are a lot of professional musicians who would love to achieve the standard of musicianship that these guys attain. They abide by a discipline that many professionals would refuse to endure. It could be said that they have a more professional attitude to playing than many professionals. We need to understand the meaning of the word "amateur". It does not mean a player of low rank. It means a player who does what he/she does purely for the love of it. Because you and I make a living from playing music, by no means puts us in any kind of superior position. Phew, glad I got that off my chest. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:49:26 -0500 From: "Art Triggs" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: trombone literature Message-ID: <004101c0a5ad$63b7f7a0$f6a315ac@bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, as I watch the snow fall outside............ Had to do it, my top ten are... Thieck's Studies, from a ratty old handwritten copy, transposed, bass, tenor and alto clef. (They are a great warmup, and calisthenic for basics.) Bordogni transcribed by Allen Ostrander - pub Fischer Allen Ostrander Bass Trombone Method - pub Fischer Maenz Bass Trombone Studies Arban Bach Cello Suites - (Becker) Telemann 12 Fantasies trans Raph Grigoriev Etudes - Trans Ostrander Reinhardt Concone Studies Orchestral Excerpts for Bass Trombone trans Julian Mencken Just a thought, as I was thinking about what I use day to day to practice, I have other music I practice also, The stuff above is just the meat and potatoes basic practice material for me. Even though I like Bordogni, I tend to agree with Sam, there is a lot of other very good music to play , practice would be very boring indeed if you worked on only your top ten. Just my .02 Art Triggs ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:24:59 -0800 From: "David Bryan" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Method books - Ronka Message-ID: <200103052025.MAA12971@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Interesting thread about etudes and methods, etc. I have a book by Ilmari Ronka, "Modern Daily Warm-Ups and Drills" - copyright 1975 by Carl Fischer, Inc., which is quite interesting. It is very specific and concise, including some brief mouthpiece and lip buzzing drills. I'm curious if there are any former colleagues or students of Ronka's on the list who could provide more information about him and his teaching. Thanks...David ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:37:20 -0500 From: "Bart Roberts" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Recent Literature Discussions on List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listmembers, Just wanted to say thanks for all of the great discussion that has come up about books, etc... It has been a really great learning experience for me. Sam......Thanks for your great comments about practicing and materials. Best Wishes..... Off to the MAC Conference Tourney in Cleveland. Go CARDS! Bart Roberts Ball State University Band Graduate Assistant Basketball Pep Band Director ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:42:19 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <20010305204219.86305.qmail@web10303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Adrian Drover wrote: > > Gabriel, you appear to be putting down the abilities of amateur > musicians. That's not at all what I was getting at. I know amateur musicians who would fit right in in many professional situations. Amateur situations (and many professional situations, for that matter), at least in the US, can be a frustrating situation for players who have spent years dedicated to learning their craft at a high level. Not always, but sometimes. And that's why some of the professional musicians will choose to stay home, even if they don't have another playing engagement. > I have been a professional musician ever since I left school in 1956. > I > gained much of my early musical training as a 3rd cornet player in a > brass > band as a kid, and I am closely associated with amateur brass bands > today > as a professional arranger/composer. > > I can tell you that the standard of playing in most of these bands is > awesome. We simply don't have that rich brass band tradition here in the US. It's cropping up here & there, but it is by no means as prevalent. I don't think it's a fair comparison to the amateur bands and orchestras in the US. I'm sure our entire brass playing community would be better off for having a brass band tradition like yours. > > We need to understand the meaning of the word "amateur". It does not > mean a > player of low rank. It means a player who does what he/she does > purely for > the love of it. Because you and I make a living from playing music, > by no > means puts us in any kind of superior position. > With great respect to everyone on the list, professional, amateur, student, etc. - I didn't say that. I don't claim a superior rank because I get paid to play - I consider myself tremendously fortunate. An amateur situation is simply different from a professional one. Different mission, different standards, different goals - and I KNOW that there is a tremendous variety of both paid and unpaid ensembles in the various communities of the world. It's all necessary - the more the better. I'm just saying that there are many nights I would rather stay home with my wife than go out and play for the love of playing, particularly if the players I would be sitting next to are not better than I am. Please don't draw the conclusion that that means I love the music less, or that I don't have respect for amateur musicians. Besides, who goes into music for any reason other than the love of it? Let me tell you, I'm not making any huge inroads into my retirement funds by freelancing! Even combined with income from a part-time administrative job (extremely flexible, thank goodness), my playing doesn't allow me any kind of extravagant lifestyle. Frankly, I'm scraping by. I'm intelligent and well-educated enough that I could make at least twice what I make now in another field. But I love music, and there isn't another way I want to spend my time. So am I an amateur? No, I'm a professional, with professional playing contracts and professional music degrees (and HUGE student loans to prove it). I love what I do, and I don't think I, or any other highly trained music professional, should have to justify being a little choosy about the playing situations I put myself in. Gettin' a little worked up, Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:13:01 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: paid to play was RE: brass band pay scale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" For some of my thoughts about my respect for brass band players based on my experience recording my solo CD "Proclamation" with Britain's Black Dyke Band and conducting The New England Brass Band, see: http://www.yeodoug.com/brassbands.html http://www.yeodoug.com/procnotes.html http://www.yeodoug.com/nebbphotos.html -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:25:54 -0600 From: "Brian Frederiksen" To: "Trombone List" , Subject: LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT BUNTROCK HALL Message-ID: <005b01c0a5c5$5657aa20$9a90fea9@hp500> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been asked to forward this on. LOS ANGELES PHILHARMONIC MUSICIANS AT BUNTROCK HALL On March 20, 2001, at 8 PM, the LAPO plays its only Chicago area performance on stage at Symphony Center. Under the auspices of the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, Symphony Center will host clinic/masterclasses by two of its noted musicians on March 19 and 20, 2001. Renowned performer, recording artist, pedagogue and lecturer, Jeffrey Reynolds will present a lecture on Monday evening, March 19, at 6 PM in Buntrock Hall at Symphony Center. His lecture, "Smart Playing" is one of his most popular and pragmatic talks on what smart players do and dumb players don't. The talk is geared for all instrumentalists. Principal tubist of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, Norman Pearson will give a lecture on Tuesday, March 20, at 1:30 PM until 2:45 PM at Buntrock Hall at Symphony Center. His lecture/demonstration will involve the various skills necessary for being not only a successful orchestral tubist but being successful in the extremely competitive world of being a free-lance recording artist in Hollywood. The LAPO's recording of the music of Silvestre Revueltas, featuring Mr. Pearson, will be explored, as well as a probable first-hearing of the Yamaha copy of the York tuba in the Chicago area. This presentation will be particularly informative to all brass players, especially tubists. Finally, on Tuesday, March 20, at 3 PM, bass-trombonist Jeffrey Reynolds will give a lecture/demonstration particularly suited to all brass players, emphasizing the skills needed to not just be successful brass players, but successful musicians as well. All brass players are encouraged to bring their instruments to this event. These free events open to the public are a part of the Civic Orchestra of Chicago's commitment to music appreciation and music education at all levels to the residents of Chicago. Norman Pearson, Tubist with the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra since 1993, is a native of Pasadena California and a Graduate of the University of Southern California. In 1982, prior to Graduation, Mr. Pearson was appointed principal tuba with the Orquestra Philarmonica de Caracas in Caracas Venezuela. Upon his return to Los Angeles he embarked on a free lance career that has included performances with the Pacific Symphony, Joffrey Ballet, Los Angeles Music Center Opera and recordings for many of the major Hollywood motion picture and television studios. Mr. Pearson has been a featured soloist with several local Bands and orchestras and presented a recital at the 1996 International Brassfest. He can be heard as a prominent voice on the Los Angeles Philharmonic recording "SENSEMAYA music of SILVESTRE REVUELTAS" ( Esa-Pekka Salonen conductor, Sony Classical). Mr. Pearson was a student of Tommy Johnson, Jim Self and Roger Bobo. Jeffrey Reynolds, has been BassTrombonist with the Los Angeles Philharmonic since 1969. He has been a regular speaker at the concert preview series, "Upbeat Live" with the Philharmonic. His experience includes performing with most of the symphony orchestras of Southern California. Mr. Reynolds has been a member of Summit Brass, California Brass Quintet, the L.A. Brass Society, and the Hollywood Trombones, and was founding conductor of the Los Angeles Brass. He has been heard on soundtracks for most of the major film studios, and has performed on hundreds of recordings. In May of 1997, Mr. Reynolds premiered Larry Lipkis', "Harlequin" for bass trombone and orchestra with Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting the Philharmonic. Mr. Reynolds has long been a champion of the Moravian Trombone Choir, and was conductor and music director of the group for 25 years, and was conductor at six Moravian Music Festivals. He teaches, conducts, composes, and arranges music, and is in demand as a clinician, conductor, and soloist at brass festivals around the world. Brian Frederiksen WindSong Press PO Box 146 Gurnee, Illinois 60031 Phone 847 223-4586 Fax 847 223-4580 brianf@windsongpress.com www.windsongpress.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 17:23:54 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Ian Bousfield Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010305172328.00be61c0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just got this in private email, but anybody out there close enough to Lubbock Texas... Ian Bousfield, past principal trombonist for the LSO (I think) and current principal of the Vienna Philharmonic, will be here (TTU) on Friday from 4-6pm for a masterclass, and at 8 pm for a recital. It will cost you ten bucks for both events (not per event), but it should be pretty good. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:needhame@yucca.net (or mailto:kd5xb@amsat.org which is really mailto:kd5xb@[128.54.16.15] ) Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) NEW Pet peeve: People who get themselves on a mailing list and then can't figure out how to get OFF the list. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:05:56 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010305220452.020426e8@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK, I'll bite. All the ophecleides I have seen (which isn't very many) are ancient. Have any of these instruments been made in the past 50 years? Other than the desire to keep history alive (a worthy pursuit), is there anything that recommends the sound of an ophecleide in the context of modern music? Is there anything it does better than conventional brass instruments? Is there a distinctive sound that would have merit in a modern setting? Just curious. Craig At 08:39 PM 3/4/2001 -0500, Douglas Yeo wrote: I've come across an interesting website with many antique brass instruments for sale, many with photos. Go to: http://www.vintage-instruments.com Click on the link to the "Brasswinds" catalog. A fine ophicleide by one of the best known makers, known as Halary (or Hilary) is #69. -Doug Yeo (no commission in this for me!) ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:58:31 -0500 From: David Burch To: 8guion@jmls.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: brass band pay scale Message-ID: <3AA46066.30B542DF@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last time I checked, there were about 200 member bands in NABBA. About twenty five traveled to last year's competition, where it was again demonstrated that the level of performance rises each year. The required piece this year in the honors section (2nd highest level) would have been a championship section piece three years ago. In sum, there are a lot of brass bands in North America, and they are getting better all the time. There also are a growing number of youth bands. They have a whole series of training bands in the Columbus organization, and here in Cincinnati we are about to start our own youth band with help from a Procter & Gamble grant. As for pay-to-play, the NABBA rules prohibit payment of band members, and also prohibit professional musicians from participating (though a "professional" is generously defined as one who earns more than 75% of his income from music. Teaching income is exempt.) There also are the Salvation Army brass bands in the U.S., less common than in the past but still around. Anybody here in one? Dave Burch Hamilton, Ohio "Guion, David" wrote: > Ted Toulouse wrote: > > > To tell you the > > truth, I would play in every brass group in America if they exsisted like > > they do in the UK. > > > This is as good an occasion as any to mention that the North American Brass > Band Association competition will be held in the Washington D.C. area the > week after Easter. Brass bands aren't as common in the US as in the UK, but > they are not all that hard to find. > > For more information, see http://www.nabba.org/ > > ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > David Guion, Cataloger > John Marshall Law School > 315 S. Plymouth Ct. > Chicago, IL 60604 > Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 > > Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? > > ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > > > ---------- > > From: Ted Toulouse[SMTP:ttoulouse@hotmail.com] > > Reply To: ttoulouse@hotmail.com > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:52 AM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: RE: brass band pay scale > > > > Dave, I totally agree with what you're saying. There have been several > > times when I've taken gigs just to get the experience of playing that > > music, > > or playing with those people, or just to get the horn on my face some > > more. > > And I've always enjoyed everything I've played in, even if I was learning > > what NOT to do at a gig (different subject). Frankly, right now I'm not > > playing in much of anything "extra" in the area and I really really miss > > playing the little gigs around me. > > > > My concern in my original post was to see if moving to Britain or Europe > > and > > taking a brass band audition would be FINANCIALLY worth it. I think it's > > great how the competition works and that > > they have that opportunity. I liken it to Drum Corps here in the US. > > Kids > > pay $2500 to give up their summer and be a part of a kick-butt experience > > and to me that's what it's all about. And it's an experience I wish I > > had. > > Where I'm at in my playing career now though, I can't justify moving to > > Europe to join an ensemble that doesn't pay. > > > > > > > > ************************************************************ > > * Ted R. Toulouse A Friend is Not Someone * > > * 1581 E. 400 Rd. you do Everything with, * > > * Lawrence, KS 66049 * > > * 785)887-8010 A Friend is Someone * > > * you'd do Everything for. * > > * 5707 Chinquapin Pkwy. * > > * Apt. E ttoulouse@hotmail.com * > > * Baltimore, MD 21239 ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK KU!! * > > * 410)435-1173 * > > ************************************************************ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:25:41 -0800 From: "Matthew Stoecker" To: craig@acticalc.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I believe Robb Stewart makes reproduction Ophicleides on a per-commission basis. His instruments look very nice but I haven't played any of them (like I would be able to judge a good ophicleide anyway :) Matthew Stoecker From: Craig Parmerlee Reply-To: craig@acticalc.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:05:56 -0500 OK, I'll bite. All the ophecleides I have seen (which isn't very many) are ancient. Have any of these instruments been made in the past 50 years? Other than the desire to keep history alive (a worthy pursuit), is there anything that recommends the sound of an ophecleide in the context of modern music? Is there anything it does better than conventional brass instruments? Is there a distinctive sound that would have merit in a modern setting? Just curious. Craig At 08:39 PM 3/4/2001 -0500, Douglas Yeo wrote: I've come across an interesting website with many antique brass instruments for sale, many with photos. Go to: http://www.vintage-instruments.com Click on the link to the "Brasswinds" catalog. A fine ophicleide by one of the best known makers, known as Halary (or Hilary) is #69. -Doug Yeo (no commission in this for me!) ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:40:31 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: needhame@yucca.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Etudes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey folks, do not forget guys like Simone Mantia. Also Etudes in the 1915 V. Cornette Method Book for Trombone. I am sure there were a lot of good trombonists around, but Marconi only sent sparks on his transmitter for a while. So how could you send music in Morse Code?? beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:50:36 -0600 From: "William Huber" To: "trombone-l" Cc: frank_rosolino@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Barry Mcdonald Arrangements Message-ID: <200103060446.XAA15692@maynard.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Feb.27, Jim Robins wrote: >Greetings List, > >I am looking for some arrangements done by Barry McDonald for trombone >quartet/quintet and rhythm section. I know he did a bunch of them, including >"It's alright with me." I have that one already. I've checked pepper and >robert king and haven't found anything. Any help would be greatly >appreciated!!! > >Jim Dear Jim, I'm sorry it's taken so long for me to respond to your request. I've been playing phone tag seeking the requisite information. Aebersold does list some of the arrangements, but not all. For more complete information please contact Ms. Charlene Harb at . I've played most of the charts an they're a lot of fun: good sounding, and everything lays well. With regard to some other comments that appeared in the List which i can't find at the moment, I must confirm, sad to say, that Barry McDonald passed away a few years ago, and that he still is missed by those of us who were fortunate enough to know him. Chris McDonald, no relation, is, happily, among the quick and is writing, arranging, and playing trombone around Nashville. I hope this helps, Bill Huber Nashville Freelancer ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:20:12 -0600 From: yardlejw@uwec.edu To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Arbans book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List, Which do you think would be more beneficial to the bass trombone player; the trombone arbans book, or the tuba arbans book. I look forward to reading your responses. James Yardley Bass Trombone ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:01:17 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: yardlejw@uwec.edu Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Arbans book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII James- I'm going to suggest neither the trombone or tuba, and instead suggest that you try the trumpet book. If you can already read tenor clef, the lines and spaces are the same as b flat treble clef (as in trumpet, tenor sax or treble clef baritone) so you can work in the tenor trombone range. By playing the exercises as if there were a bass clef there instead of treble (add two flats for tenor, three for bass), they will be in a good bass trombone range. You can take either of those clefs down another octave to work in your extreme low range, and you can use alto clef (add two sharps) to work in the high range. Also, an exercise that is in "C" in treble clef that you would normally play in b flat tenor clef, can also easily be played in b natural by thinking of it in 5 sharps instead. This can be done in any of the clef "transpositions", and thus make the book more versatile. One last bonus is that you can use clefs as a basis for transposition once you're comfortable with this process (maybe read a tenor sax part as tenor clef, or a baritone sax part as bass clef, etc). It's a handy skill to have in a pinch. Jim Scott On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 yardlejw@uwec.edu wrote: > > List, > > Which do you think would be more beneficial to the bass trombone player; > the trombone arbans book, or the tuba arbans book. I look forward to > reading your responses. > > James Yardley > Bass Trombone > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:20:41 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale Message-ID: <002501c0a616$6dc39740$180efd3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Parmerlee" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 3:05 AM Subject: Re: Antique brass instruments for sale > Other than the desire to keep history alive (a worthy pursuit), is there > anything that recommends the sound of an ophecleide in the context of > modern music? Is there anything it does better than conventional brass > instruments? Is there a distinctive sound that would have merit in a > modern setting? I once sat in with a band on tuba playing French military style music. I had 2 ophicleidists sitting next to me and quite honestly, I've never heard anything so horrible in my life. Sounded a bit like the trombone when you pull your tongue back and to the bottom of your mouth, and stuff a duster down the bell. But then, where would anyone hire two good ophicleide experts at short notice? I believe the fingering is quite tricky too, kinda reverse saxophone fingering (open the tone holes rather than close them). I'm sure Doug can put me right on that, I've never had the opportunity or desire to try one out. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1970--