TROMBONE-L Digest 1945 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Closetbn@aol.com do you have another email address? by "Dean McCarty" 2) Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Update by Chris Waage 3) RE: Double Bore? by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hugo_Garc=EDa_Sampedro?= 4) J.J. Johnson Memorial Page by Chris Waage 5) Religion by "Berggren, Erik" 6) Re: J.J. by Gabriel Langfur 7) Quote of the Day by E PLukas 8) Re: Quote of the Day by Douglas Yeo 9) J.J.'s passing by James Scott 10) Re: Quote of the Day by Brian French 11) JJ's passing by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 12) MS East Coast dates by MikeSuter@aol.com 13) practice mute by "James W. Yardley" 14) Re: practice mute by Douglas Yeo 15) Memories of J.J. by "Jeff Albert" 16) Jazz concert by "Steve Cagle" 17) Re: Religion? by "Jen and Andy Walls" 18) RE: Religion? by "Daniel P. Sniderman" 19) For Sale: Shires Thayer section by Peter Ellefson 20) Speaking of mutes by "Thomas Smee" 21) Topics by "Thomas Smee" 22) Re: practice mute by Gabriel Langfur 23) Stop signs by "Gary Greenhoe" 24) Re: Double Bore? by Craig Parmerlee 25) by "Daniel Templet" 26) No Messages for Some Time by "Daniel Cloutier" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:33:00 -0600 From: "Dean McCarty" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Closetbn@aol.com do you have another email address? Message-ID: <005d01c08f78$2b9e0e40$170960cc@compaqcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C08F45.DDF7E4E0" I'm trying to email you privately but your address keeps coming back to me as "undeliverable." Dean McCarty <>< freelance trombonist, Houston area ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:06:38 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Online Trombone Journal Classifieds Update Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 8:05 a.m. CST on February 5, 2001 with 13 new ads. OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:45:03 -0300 From: Hugo Garc’a Sampedro To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Double Bore? Message-ID: <00d701c08eb9$cff04d60$16752bc8@nueva1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello <> When the Chicago Symphony Orchestra tour to my country last year (three concerts), I attend to a masterclass (and other classes, talks -and meals-) with Michael Mulcahy and he is certainly using a bach 50 slide with a 42 bell. He said that the idea of make the tenors of the section play a bass slide was a Jay Friedmanan's one. They use bach 50 lightweight slides (nickel) because he said that the yellow one (brass) is "too much". I don't know if they use always that equipment (probably not). Cordially -Hugo ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Greenhoe To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: RE: Double Bore? > Dave... > > There are a number of tenor trombonists that use .562 straight bore bass > slides with a tenor bell. I have been guilty of that myself on occasion. > Generally the .547 bore tenor trombones arrive at .562 beyond the slider > receiver unless you are playing a straight Bach 42 which uses the bell taper > as a choke. > regards, > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Dave Wank > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 1:29 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Double Bore? > > > Thanks for the reply, Craig. > My thoughts were piqued primarily when someone stated that people were using > larger slides on smaller horns with presumably the same effect as a double > bore slide, such as using a bass bone slide on a .547" horn. Obviously the > sound will be again scrunched down to the .547" size when it arrives at the > bell section. > Interestingly, to me, is the fact that the stockings on my bass bone are > .592" which means my outer slide must be at least .594" ID. I don't have an > ID micrometer so I can't tell for sure but .594" would be a minimum > necessary size for insured movement under normal temperature changes. > I am not a professional musician and my embouchure is better for the sax > than the bone, but I can hear a vast difference when my slide reaches 5th to > 7th positions. Someday, when the chops are better developed, I will hear > less difference, I'm sure. Meanwhile, the reason for the difference will > remain - that large bore slide! > Since I also play euphonium I would have to agree with those who feel that > the big slides result in a sound similiar to a "slide euphonium". > I think Doug Yeo's treatise on this "bigger is better" concept is well worth > reading and considering. If a large slide allows you to better blend with > all the other sections - reeds and wire choir - great! Then do it. If it's > nothing more than a "I want to be heard" syndrome, then we'd better rethink > why we are in the music business. > Please, don't misconstrue this as being a condemnation of your thoughts or > practices. It is only mentioned here as a thought-provoking concept. > Hang in there! > Dave Wank > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:13:54 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Cc: "Human, Richard" Subject: J.J. Johnson Memorial Page Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" For the next seven days, the Online Trombone Journal's front page (http://www.trombone.org) will be a memorial for J.J. Johnson. On this page, there is an area for you to submit your memories. We will compile these messages and send them to his family. As information about services and memorials become available we will post them at the above address. Chris Waage -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:45:07 -0600 From: "Berggren, Erik" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: Religion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey all! I'm relatively new to the List and don't often comment,....just lurk and learn from the rest of you. However, I would like to let you know that I was, and have been, quite impressed and pleasantly refreshed by the number of you that express(ed) religious beliefs, convictions, knowledge, etc. Personally,....I welcome and encourage your continued expression of the same,.....they have been a witness to me! We need more of this, in my opinion. I pray that those who don't agree will forgive me. :-) Bring on the "flames".....as long as they don't last for eternity! Erik Berggren, AAA Always An Amateur ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: J.J. Message-ID: <20010205165035.78532.qmail@web10309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I had the great fortune to take a brief lesson with J.J. once, while I was a student at Oberlin and he was artist-in-residence for a year. I hope you all won't mind if I indulge myself a little and tell the story. I think you'll enjoy it. His residency was arranged by Ray Premru (another great man whom we lost in 1998) when Oberlin was just building up its Conservatory Jazz program. He would come to Oberlin for 2 or 3 days every six weeks or so, do a performance or two, do a masterclass or two - on all of the diverse skills he had acquired over the years, from playing to film scoring to arranging, etc. - and schedule 3 or 4 hours of lessons. One hour each for the two most serious jazz trombonists, Josh Hauser (currently teaching at Tennessee Tech) and Jason Jackson (currently freelancing in NY & playing in the Vanguard Orchestra I think), and 1/2 hour each for conservatory trombonists. In this way, every one of us in the studio had a lesson with the master, whether or not we had any intention of pursuing a career in jazz playing. He opened my lesson by introducing himself (as if I didn't know!) and asking where I was from, etc., and then he asked me to face him and play a middle C. I played a comfortable mf middle C. He then asked me to play it piano, then ppp. Then he said "Now play it ff, just like you're sitting in the orchestra." I must have looked surprised, because then he told me not to worry about playing too loud for him, he was ready. The room was TINY - maybe 8' x 12" - but he seemed serious, so I did it. He smiled, said "Well, it sounds like you and your trombone get along just fine," and asked me if I knew "All the Things You Are." I did, by ear, so he put on the Aebersold tape, and we played the melody - me picking it out as I could remember - then he played a chorus, and I played a chorus as best I could, which wasn't much. He said I had a pretty good ear, and encouraged me to study improvising if I should so desire. Then - most valuable of all - he told me where to start. He said that his ideal, of all the great players he'd ever known and worked with, was Miles Davis at his best. "I stood next to Miles nearly every night for years, and sometimes it wasn't so good, but when he was playing well, nobody could touch him." (I'm paraphrasing of course - my memory's not THAT good) He said he thought the most perfect jazz solo ever recorded was Miles' first solo on "So What" from "Kind of Blue". "Every phrase is like a complete sentence, with a subject and verb, and a period at the end. I went to the store TODAY. PERIOD. I bought some groceries. PERIOD. And the sentences are formed into paragraphs, and they tell a complete story, start to finish. Learn that solo, memorize it, write it out, study it. That's the first place to start." What incredibly great advice, and what a humble and generous man! J.J. was certainly one of the nicest men I've ever met. I've been fortunate to meet and play with (I was a student each time) three of the greatest jazz trombonists - J.J., Al Grey and Slide Hampton - and I have to say each one was incredibly encouraging, incredibly gracious, incredibly generous...and each one never stopped practicing! They would take every spare moment, go into a corner, maybe stick a practice mute in, and keep practicing! J.J. will be sorely missed, as will Al Grey. I would encourage everyone who is in a position to to take advantage of the fact that Slide is still alive & well, and invite him to your school. He plays amazingly, writes amazingly, and is a wonderful man. The best tribute we can give these great people is to learn from them. Gabe __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:58:48 -0600 From: E PLukas To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Quote of the Day Message-ID: <3A7EDBC8.40794E11@bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit QUOTE OF THE DAY ========================= "The days of somebody saying, 'Shut up and play' are over." - ZARIN MEHTA, on involving the New York Philharmonic musicians in the selection of Lorin Maazel as their director. -- E. P. LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:16:11 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Quote of the Day Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Another quote of the day: ================ He had failed, one [player] said, to "keep the lid on the brass." ================ -Unnamed New York PHilharmonic player on why he felt the orchestra didn't hire Christoph Eschenbach as music director (NY Times, Feb 5, 2001) ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:00:19 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: J.J.'s passing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear List- I received an e-mail from Joe Alessi earlier today about another matter, and he asked me to post this to the list - a couple of words came out a bit strange in my copy (some software problem), so my apologies if anything reads slightly different from what he intended. "I am deeply saddened about JJ Johnson's death. Whether you agree or disagree with the way he left the earth, you must agree that this man was a great inspiration to all of us. I know for sure that he was the single most influential trombonist in my life. His sound was warm, expressive, but also solitary. When listening you could escape the world and understand this meaning from his musical message. His ideas were pure, simple, but extremely meaningful. His improvisations were beautiful songs that were from his heart. His tone was versatile. I believe that JJ could have sat in any orchestra in the world if he chose to pursue that genre. We had several conversations and meetings over the last ten years. He was the kindest mind, and I wanted to get to know him better. Fortunately, we have so many recordings of him. I have to say that when I was in early high school, after listening to my first JJ recording (sorry, the name of recording was unreadable on my computer), I was hooked forever on the music making of JJ Johnson. I hope that throughout the world today his recordings will be played on every jazz radio station. I will miss him very much. May he rest in peace." Joe Alessi ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:11:39 -0500 (EST) From: Brian French To: yeo@yeodoug.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Quote of the Day Message-ID: <380866297.981400299883.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>He had failed, one [player] said, to "keep the lid on the >>brass." >>================ >>-Unnamed New York PHilharmonic player on why he felt the >>orchestra didn't hire Christoph Eschenbach as music director >>(NY Times, Feb 5, 2001) I can remember more than one occasion in Pittsburgh where Maazel failed to do the same. I'm a bit confused by Maazel's hire, I remember hearing he left Pittsburgh to have more time to commit to his composing, and now he has an even more demanding MD post. I guess As for Eschenbach, I count him as one of the three best that I've had the priviledge to play for, Philly's made a fantastic choice. ------Original Message------ From: Douglas Yeo To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: February 5, 2001 5:16:11 PM GMT Subject: Re: Quote of the Day Another quote of the day: ================ He had failed, one [player] said, to "keep the lid on the brass." ================ -Unnamed New York PHilharmonic player on why he felt the orchestra didn't hire Christoph Eschenbach as music director (NY Times, Feb 5, 2001) ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:12:45 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: JJ's passing Message-ID: <8.fdf009b.27b0552d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My son who also plays trombone did not stay with it long enough to realize what he missed if he had heard JJ said to me one time an old Indiana Probverb. "Never judge a man until you have walked one moon in his moccasins." Those mocassins would be hard to walk in. (much less fill) We miss JJ here and look forward to hearing him in the Advanced Chior. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:02:48 EST From: MikeSuter@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: MS East Coast dates Message-ID: <34.107e349a.27b06ef8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, Just before the start of Mike Vax "Stan Kenton Alumni Band" tour of the eastern seaboard in April and May I'll be conducting a couple of clinic/concerts in the Virgin Islands, and one in Georgia. I'll post the full schedule in the coming months. At this time I still have three (possibly four) dates open. So if you'd like one of my clinic/concerts with either jazz band or concert band, contact me at mikesuter@aol.com. Since I'm trying to avoid too much "down time" I can offer a pretty good rate. All The Best, Mike Suter Slidewerke PrimeSlide Design ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:20:43 -0600 From: "James W. Yardley" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: practice mute Message-ID: <000201c08fc3$35685ac0$23bc1c89@uwec.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a dealer in the U.S. that sells the Wallace practice mute? Or do you have to get them directly from the the company? Also, I've heard that they do work on bass trombones and that they don't work on bass trombones. Any opinions? Thanks for your help. James Yardley Bass Trombone ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:45:03 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: practice mute Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 4:20 PM -0600 2/5/01, James W. Yardley wrote: Does anyone know of a dealer in the U.S. that sells the Wallace practice mute? Osmun Music in Belmont, MA, has them in stock (last time I was there, a week or so ago). Go to http://www.osmun.com -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:46:11 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: "J.J. Johnson List" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Memories of J.J. Message-ID: <005201c08fc5$7253d5c0$c4d81542@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I was a senior in high school, J.J. Johnson was the guest artist at the Loyola University Jazz Ensemble Festival in New Orleans. Our band played the first day, but a couple of friends and I made the 2 and a half hour drive back to New Orleans the next day, to hear the concert and catch another clinic. In J.J.'s clinic that day, he asked all of the trombone players to come up to the stage. I didn't have my horn, but a friend of mine from another school had his, and he wasn't going up, so I asked to borrow it. There was a semi-circle of 7 or 8 trombonists on stage, and we were trading 8's on Imagination. Well, my friend realized what he was missing, so he came up and stood next to me and we just shared his horn. J.J. realized what was going on, so the next time it got to us, my friend played 8, then J.J. played eight to give me time to get the horn, then I played 8, then J.J. played another 8, because it was now his turn. What a thrill for me to have my 8 sandwiched in the middle of J.J., and what a sign of a beautiful man that went out of his way to make 17 year old trombone players feel comfortable and encouraged. We are lucky to live in a world that had such a wonderful man, and will always have his great music. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:58:22 -0600 From: "Steve Cagle" To: "T BONE" Subject: Jazz concert Message-ID: <001001c08fc7$28c16240$19b27ed8@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C08F94.D980C2C0" For interested people in the north LA area, Maynard Ferguson will be at Northwest Louisiana University Tuesday night. He will come on at 8:00. The NSU jazz band will play at 7:00. Tickets are $10.00. He will have his Big Bop Nouveau Band with him, 3 trumpets, 1 bone and 2 saxes plus rhythm section. I will be there to enjoy a night of great jazz. Steve Cagle Family Church Instrumental Director Twin Cities Community Band ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:18:24 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" , Subject: Re: Religion? Message-ID: <00d101c08fc9$f16c9f00$e2461bd0@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Closet Bone, I'm not sure of you're real name since it's not in your e-mail. I should say up front that I have strong convictions about my religion. And I am not going to try to convince you that I am right. It is not my place. My belief holds that the Holy Spirit will work in people's hearts and I am simply there for the Holy Spirit to use if He desires. If you do not believe what I believe, I do not feel like I have failed, but rather that the Holy Spirit hasn't brought you to that place yet. And that's okay. I also recognize that saying this may upset you as you might be thinking "I don't believe in that stuff." I'm cool with that too. You are certainly a free human being. What I said in the last paragraph is only a portion of my belief. I needed to write that so I could reference it later in this discussion. This letter gets around to the trombone-L eventually, so please read on. I won't share everything I believe with you because you probably don't care. I wrote it so that you would know that I have a certain belief that you may or may not hold as true. We must agree to disagree about the issue. Years ago organizations such as the ACLU among others fought to get religion separated from the schools and the state. I believe they have accomplished their goals and now it is time to stop. I agree with the separation. I do not want to force my Christian belief system on you or others. It is not my place. As I said earlier, I believe it is the Holy Spirit that does all the work. BUT, and this is a big but, I am certainly entitled to share my faith with others in whatever environment I find myself in. You see, the major thrust of their argument for removing religion from the school system was that it was imposed on others. Okay, I'd agree. We had to go to religious release time, we had a prayer time right before the pledge of allegiance. Now there is nothing imposing religion on people in school. But now we have organizations like the Coalition of Christian Athletes, and See you at the Pole, voluntary religious released time, etc. that bring religion to the school for those students who are interested. It is a fundamental right of the constitution that we have freedom of religion, freedom of expression, the right to gather, etc. For those organizations and individuals to attempt to suppress our rights under the law is discrimination, plain and simple. There is no way around that. I believe this is one of the reasons America is America today. We left our homelands to escape persecution on any number of fronts and religious persecution was one of them. If I did not like what you said, and I took away your ability to say it, I would be discriminating against you. Today we see, as other listers have alluded to, what can be coined as reverse-discrimination. If you, Closet Bone, tell me not to talk about anything (in this case my faith), you are discriminating against me. Similar principle (not principal - we had that discussion here on the list before) as white/ black, men/ women, Jew/ Muslim, or whatever. I believe you can ask others not to share their faith on the list. And the list monitor has a right to ask me not to discuss religion on the list. After all it is his list, your list, and my list. I do not write religious dissertations on the list (except for maybe this one). Frankly, I'd agree with you Closet Bone, this isn't the place for that. If I want to talk to an individual about religion I talk to them, not a lot of other people. There is difficulty, however, separating religion and music. As I'm sure you know, music and religion have been intertwined for centuries and centuries. To ask people to describe music (in this case trombone related music) without using religion would be like asking people to describe a stop sign without using the word red. It is impossible. Another difficulty I personally find is taking out my faith from my conversation. You see Closet Bone, it is part of who I am. When I speak or write, I do not think, "okay, how can I get God into this conversation." It just happens sometimes. Especially, as I just explained, when talking about music. This is the first time I have shared some of my faith with the list in an overt manner. I remember asking for suggestions for church music for trombone and tape a few weeks back. I can't imagine asking that question without using the word church in it. So in summation Closet Bone, I think we are in some sense in agreement on this issue. I personally do not share my faith with the list in a transparent and overt way. I may mention it, allude to it, or in some other way talk about it when asking for help, or giving advice on some trombone related issue. I make no apologies for this. I respect your request to not discuss religion on the list. I certainly will do my best not to impose my faith on members of the list. If I discuss my faith with someone from the list it is done off the list because as you said, this isn't the place for that discussion. Perhaps the funniest part about your request, is that I never would have wrote this to the list if you hadn't asked me not to do so. I know you didn't ask me specifically, but rather the list in general. I wish you well in your tromboning. Okay so it's a made up word. I figure Mark Twain did it, so I can too. And if we're ever in the same town, I hope we can agree to disagree and have a drink together. Mandatory trombone content: I play the trombone. Andy Walls ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 4:10 AM Subject: Religion? > Am I the only one who finds discussing religion to be inappropriate for the > list? It's o.k. to bring it up in the context of music and musicians, but > I've noticed a couple of listers crossing the line to wanting to share their > beliefs with the list. I don't think we want to go there, do we? > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:58:51 -0600 From: "Daniel P. Sniderman" To: "Trombone List" Subject: RE: Religion? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To put my two cents in - this issue is a very touchy and complex one. I am a member of a minority religion in this country. On the one hand; I have no problems with frank and open discussions of religion; and with people expressing their religious beliefs. On the other hand; I am VERY uncomfortable with being preached to - and even more so being proselytized. (In fact my religion believes that proselyzaaion is WRONG; while other religions promote it. So in this example what one person may see as promoting their right for free exercise of religion may be infringing on another's). As far as the comments to "not read it" - that's a difficult stance to take on a medium that is purely textual. Unless you make it completely clear in the message header the topic of the note is religious - how can anyone NOT read posts containing religious context until after they have already read it? The point I'm trying to make - this is a very sensitive and complicated issue. I think that's as much as reason for what many religious people mistake as hostility toward religion in US society is in fact a "Cop-out"; instead of addressing a complex and sensitive issue - let's just ignore it; to brush it under the carpet. I believe there's a fine line between what is acceptable religious discussion and what isn't appropriate for this list. I have no problems, for example, hearing about how religion adds to someone's life; but not one expressing a belief that those without are somehow inferior. Consider this anecdote: when I was in elementary school, I had an exchange with children who attended a Fundamentalist Baptist church who were alarmed because they were my friend and were taught that I was "going to hell" because I didn't accept Jesus as my Savior. It was a very disturbing experience for me. I tried to explain to them that I didn't believe I was going to hell, that I belonged to a different faith that believed differently than they did, that I was also going to heaven. But my discussion with them - it was as if I was speaking a foreign language - nothing I said even registered. To them - it was a simple fact that I was going to hell; and they felt it was there responsibility to save me, and nothing short of my conversion could change that. Now, I'm not equating anything that's posted on this list to the action of those very young children (who certainly didn't know better and I even understood at my young age they had sincere intentions) - but consider the fact; especially if you belong to a "majority faith" of the line between a frank and open discussion of your own religious beliefs; and imposing your faith on others. Consider what it would be like for you lived if you lived in, say Israel, or Saudi Arabia, or China. Also consider that atheists and agnostics are, in a sense members of a "religion" who's beliefs should be respected. And please try to understand - I don't mean this in any way as an attack on anything any has or hasn't been posted; simply food for thought. Dan Sniderman Evanston, IL USA -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Daniel Pliskin Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 7:24 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Religion? >Am I the only one who finds discussing religion to be inappropriate for the >list? It's o.k. to bring it up in the context of music and musicians, but >I've noticed a couple of listers crossing the line to wanting to share >their >beliefs with the list. I don't think we want to go there, do we? I'm surprised that you think that what comes out of your mouth or gets written in emails is devoid of your beliefs. I'd be willing to believe that it's quite the contrary. I'd say that as long as we leave the judgment part to God, we mortals shouldn't have a problem discussing our various beliefs. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:25:52 -0800 From: Peter Ellefson To: Trombone List Subject: For Sale: Shires Thayer section Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit S.E. Shires tenor Thayer Valve section. 9 months old and used only sporadically during that time. There are a few scratches in the lacquer but no dings. $800 and I'll pay U.S.shipping/insurance. Email me if you have questions. Peter Ellefson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:25:26 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Speaking of mutes Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I noticed at the Osmun web site that they sell Engeman mutes, which are very nice looking wooden mutes. I bought one last summer from Thein for a contra only because it played all over the contra, including way down there, with no issues at all (Max Thein had drilled four relatively small holes in it near the bottom). In short, I freely admit that I bought it because it pushed the 'neat gadget' button of my typically male mind, not because I thought I had any particular use for it. Has anyone in the Boston area tried the tenor or bass trombone versions of this mute? Here's the link with a picture: http://store.yahoo.com/omi/enbastrommut.html ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:37:14 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Topics Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think the short answer to this is that the list is a 'place' to discuss trombones and related issues. So lets talk about trombones and related issues. There are lists out there for every possible topic. If the topic of your post is not trombones and related issues, then go find a list that is on that topic. Apply some common sense about what topics are 'related' to trombones. I am sure we all will tolerate some leeway on what are 'related issues', but please ask yourself, before you send your post, whether your post is really about trombones or whether it is predominantly about something else. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: practice mute Message-ID: <20010205234432.6961.qmail@web10313.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I tried one at Osmun Music, so I know they can at least get them if they don't have any currently in stock. www.osmun.com It did not seem to work well for bass trombone. The mute goes too far into the bell, and it raises the pitch A LOT. And if I remember correctly, it got farther & farther out of tune as the partials got higher. Or lower - or something. The best luck I've had with a practice mute was by making one myself, from a Tom Crown straight mute. I took off the corks, replaced them with a couple of layers of solid sheet cork, drilled three 1/4" holes under the joint to the bottom bowl section (like a Wick Practice mute). Voila...For me, it's like a Wick practice mute but better. I suspect the Jo-ral practice mute would also work well, since the mute itself is a similar dimension to the Tom Crown. I find the Dennis Wick Bass Trombone Straight mute to be too small & tight. Gabe --- "James W. Yardley" wrote: > Does anyone know of a dealer in the U.S. that sells the Wallace > practice > mute? Or do you have to get them directly from the the company? > Also, I've > heard that they do work on bass trombones and that they don't work on > bass > trombones. Any opinions? Thanks for your help. > > James Yardley > Bass Trombone > __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:18:37 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Stop signs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian, Maybe you can help here...I was taught that stop signs were octagonal...besides, I'm color blind, sometimes;-) What did you learn in Scotland, the land of Glendronach? I'll drink to that! Anyone want to discuss sterilizing trombones with a good whisky? Gary Greenhoe Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra Greenhoe Musical Instrument Components http://www.greenhoe.com gary@greenhoe.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 03:14:24 -0400 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Double Bore? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010205030823.01caba78@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:28 PM 02/04/2001 -0500, Dave Wank wrote: If a large slide allows you to better blend with all the other sections - reeds and wire choir - great! Then do it. If it's nothing more than a "I want to be heard" syndrome, then we'd better rethink why we are in the music business. Definitely. And the irony of the slide euph business is that it DOESN'T help the voice to be heard. Quite the contrary. In ensemble those booming voices just turn to mud. The voices that are heard are the ones that have a bit of edge to them. I'm not saying that the dual bore slide has no place. I have one dual bore bass setup I like pretty well, but it consists of the smallest leadpipe, a very shallow mouthpiece, and the thinnest copper bell. Those other bits bring back the edge that the dual bore slide took away. Later, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 22:14:46 -0600 From: "Daniel Templet" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am in my fourth semester of music history and am required to write a paper. I am asking for suggestion on a topic dealing with trombone. The paper must be based on the time frame 1750 to present and must be 7 to 10 pages. Any serious help including place to find information would be appreciated. Please e-mail off the list at danieltemplet@hotmail.com. Thanks in advance Daniel "the desperate music student" Templet Northwestern State University Natchitoches, LA Bass Trombone Tenor Trombone Euphonium _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:27:28 -0800 From: "Daniel Cloutier" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: No Messages for Some Time Message-ID: <200102060427.UAA12426@mail1.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 Hey, I've received no messages for about a week, I think. Anyone know what gives? ------------------------------------------------------------ --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1945--