TROMBONE-L Digest 1940 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Desperate practice time by jimandcat@juno.com 2) West Side Story by "H du Plooy" 3) from craigslist.org: (artists and musicians) Emagic Logic Audio MIDI Guru Wanted For Consultation by zinger@musician.org 4) Emagic Logic Audio MIDI Guru Wanted For Consultation by Galen Zinn 5) RE: Practice Time by "Roger Karren" 6) Humor by bpfost@wcinet.net 7) Re: practice time by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 8) Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto by "Rod Ellard" 9) RE: West Side Story by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 10) Re: Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto by James Scott 11) RE: Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto by Steve Gamble 12) Re: West Side Story by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 13) Re: Freezing bells for stress relief by "Billy Cordova" 14) 4 bone tunes by "David Pozos" 15) wood mutes by "David Pozos" 16) Re: West Side Story by "Adrian Drover" 17) Re: West Side Story by "Gary D. Maxwell" 18) Re: 4 bone tunes by Douglas Yeo 19) Re: West Side Story by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 20) RE: wood mutes by "Gary Greenhoe" 21) Re: West Side Story by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 22) Re: 4 bone tunes by Gabriel Langfur 23) Re: West Side Story by Candice & Eric Swanson 24) Re: 4 bone tunes by Douglas Yeo 25) PBS special by "Gary Greenhoe" 26) Thanks! by Agapebassbone@aol.com 27) Re: Freezing bells for stress relief by "Daniel Pliskin" 28) Re: West Side Story by "Daniel Pliskin" 29) Re: West Side Story by "Ted Toulouse" 30) Re: Freezing bells for stress relief by Craig Parmerlee 31) Metal Freezing and Instrument Repair by "Ted Toulouse" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:16:21 -0800 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Desperate practice time Message-ID: <20010131.071622.-385299.0.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of posts on the thread mentioned people's "unusual" practice times. Finding places or times out of desperation. I thought that might make an interesting thread. Here's one of mine. Several years ago while I was still running around the country auditioning for orchestras I took a trip in the middle of winter from San Diego to Halifax Nova Scotia. Look on a map, its about as long a trip across the lower 48 that you can make. While changing planes in Toronto, the flight was delayed while they cleared snow off the runway. Feeling nervous about not playing for a day while traveling, I roamed around the airport looking for a place to play. No where. Being used to finding a place outdoors (like, in California, dude), I started roaming around the parking lot looking for a sheltered nook. Pretty stupid since it was snowing and about 20degrees out there. The guy in the toll booth called me over and asked "What in the Hell are you doing oot there?". I explained and he said, "Practice in here, I've got a heater." So here I am standing in a 4ft by 8ft booth, playing excerpts, the slide moving over the legs of the seated attendant. People staring at they paid their toll, the guy growling at them, "What the Hell you lookin at, eh? You never seen a musical instrument?" That would have been the end of it but his supervisor came over on an inspection, got mad and fired him on the spot. I felt pretty bad, but the guy cussed out his boss severely and chased him away. "Keep playing. That guy's a #@&*~!! , I was going to quit anyway. This is a great way to go oot of the stinkin' job." No, I didn't win the audition. But I got a dandy case of walking pnuemonia ;^) Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:33:21 +0200 From: "H du Plooy" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: West Side Story Message-ID: <20010131153321.16772.qmail@proliant2.mailgate.net> Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" West Side Story calls for a "soft-mute." Maybe I'm ignorant, but I have no idea what it is. Any ideas? Also, in some places, the mute changes are really very fast. What do you do guys do to keep up? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Ananzi Mail http://mail.ananzi.co.za ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:37:05 -0000 From: zinger@musician.org To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: from craigslist.org: (artists and musicians) Emagic Logic Audio MIDI Guru Wanted For Consultation Message-ID: <20010131163705.367.qmail@web.craigslist.org> Mandatory Trombone Content: I will be recording trombones! __________________________________________________________________ From: zinger@musician.org Date: Wed Jan 31st 08:05 AM Subject: from craigslist.org: (artists and musicians) Emagic Logic Audio MIDI Guru Wanted For Consultation I have assembled a home music project studio, and need to establish a relationship with a consultant who could guide me in the proper use of the hardware and software listed below. Major System Components Are: Kurzweil K2500XS Keyboard Korg O1/Wfd Keyboard Mackie CR1604-VLZ Mixer Digidesign Pro Tools Mix Plus System Millennia Media Microphone Preamp Opcode Studio 64X MIDI Interface/Patchbay Emagic Logic Audio Sequencing Software Emagic SoundDiver Software Sibelius Music Notation Software Various other miscellaneous pieces, etc. Please reveal your qualifications by e-mail. it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests this is in or around Concord ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:51:40 -0800 From: Galen Zinn To: Trombone List Subject: Emagic Logic Audio MIDI Guru Wanted For Consultation Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mandatory Trombone Content: I will be recording trombones! __________________________________________________________________ I have assembled a home music project studio in the East San Francisco Bay Area, and need to establish a relationship with a consultant who could guide me in the proper use of the hardware and software listed below. Major System Components Are: Kurzweil K2500XS Keyboard Korg O1/Wfd Keyboard Mackie CR1604-VLZ Mixer Digidesign Pro Tools Mix Plus System Millennia Media Microphone Preamp Opcode Studio 64X MIDI Interface/Patchbay Emagic Logic Audio Sequencing Software Emagic SoundDiver Software Sibelius Music Notation Software Various other miscellaneous pieces, etc. Thanks, Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:55:58 -0700 From: "Roger Karren" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Practice Time Message-ID: <81BCCE9FC4413543ACDA51AC5EECE75C030794@MENSAJERO.s-labs.sorensonlabs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At night before bedtime as long as I am not playing a gig. My daughter gets a kick out of listening to me play while she goes to sleep. Sort of "Lullaby's" her to sleep took a couple days for her to get used to it, but it works good now. RLK -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Albert [mailto:jalbert@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:56 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Practice Time Here is a question aimed specifically towards listers with day jobs. When do you practice? In the fall, I started teaching at a local university. Part of my duties include a musicianship class that meets most mornings at either 9 or 10. This was the time of day that I like to practice. I would wake up, eat breakfast, watch a cycle of Sportscenter, then I would be good and awake, and ready to practice. Well, the teaching gig has completely screwed up that schedule, along with my golf game as well. I am part time at the University, so I don't have an office to practice in, and I live too far away to come home between classes. Those of you on the list that work 9 to 5's, when do you practice? Thanks, Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:07:02 GMT From: bpfost@wcinet.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Humor Message-ID: <200101311707.RAA54710@wci3.wcinet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for that shiny new trombone you gave me for Christmas," Little Johnny said to his Uncle Rodney, the first time he saw him after the holidays. "It's the best Christmas present I ever got." "That's great," said his Uncle Rodney. "Do you know how to play it?" "Oh, I don't play it," Little Johnny said. "My mom gives me a dollar a day not to play it during the day and my dad gives me five dollars a week not to play it at nigh ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:05:39 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: practice time Message-ID: <002901c08ba8$105757a0$5f511a3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear listers: I have read all of the responses to the practice time thing, In my experience, yes, time is important, but as it has been brought up before, it's not so much the AMOUNT OF TIME involved, but the QUALITY OF TIME involved. I have known musicians in the past who practice 40 hours a week and don't seem to improve at all because they practice WRONG. In order for practice to be productive, you MUST have an idea what you're trying to accomplish before you ever put the horn up to your face. If you're kind of nebulous to all of this, then here's a few things to get you started. A) Same beautiful sound on every note, which involves: 1) A good idea in your head what a good trombone sound is 2) Correct embouchure formation 3) Efficient use of the air stream--if you don't take the air in, you can't blow it out. When starting the day, keep it very simple, and don't be too concerned if your best sound doesn't happen right away. Producing a sound on a brass instrument is a very coordinated effort between the brain, embouchure, and airstream, and if any one of them are out of whack, it's not going to happen for you. It takes a bit of time to get all of them in sync. I suppose we call this WARMUP, but don't warmup AIMLESSLY. Have a good idea in your head before you start and you'll be on your way much faster. B) Consistent articulations on every note C) Do not permit wavering of sound. (LONG TONES--don't go for volume, go for the length of the note--how about 20 counts at m.m.=80--the lower the better at mp) D) Put the slide in the right place. I can assure you that this means much of your practice will have to be done SLOWLY, so that the coordination is correct. if you can't do it slowly, you'll never have a prayer at performing it at a faster tempo correctly. Use a tuner and a tape recorder. Just don't attempt suicide after you hear the playback. E) Use the metronome RELIGIOUSLY. If you can afford it, I strongly recomment Dr. Beat. The DB66 is about $120. A great investment for a lifetime of music making. just think--over a career of 25 years, that's pennies a day. Also--don't be too concerned about your playing becoming too mechanical. The time and rhythm have to be right before you can begin to impart any kind of artistry to your performance. If you've never read anything about the Polish composer Chopin, it is said that the metronome never left his piano. (Also keep in mind that was before the age of digital metronomes.) Practicing orchestral excerpts with a metronome, even under tempo, will give you a strong sense of the inherent swing in the music. Examples: Berlioz Hungarian March, The Ride, Mozart Requiem Tuba Mirum (this is ESPECIALLY enlightening). Bolero, etc. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.. F) Practice the extremes. Tonal range extremes, (especially tenor trombone players--playing in the low register extensively does wonders for helping your sound to focus in the middle and upper registers) Volume range extremes, vary articulations from quite detached to liquid smooth (learn to use natural slurs with no bumps. Requires an extremely efficient airstream.) I'm sure I could continue this longer, but I'll close by saying that it is better to practice for 45 minutes and really get something accomplished than to practice for 3 hours and not have a specific purpose in mind. For you younger students, and I'll say college age and younger, the one thing that I'm finding more and more is that playing the trombone is a very physical endeavor, and in order to keep up, you must spend the time to keep yourself in good shape. Exercise such as running & swimming, and it doesn't have to be fast--in fact, go for distance rather than speed. The principal euphonium player in the Jericho Brass, the brass band I play in, runs 5 miles everyday, and he's had open heart surgery, and he's 64 years old. In reality, he runs to live. I have a few young students who felt that they had to have the large bore tenor, and many times their hand, wrist and forearm strength is not adequate enough to hold the horn for an extended period of time. You can squeeze a tennis ball, or go to K-Mart and purchase a set of hand grips and work out with them. If you're very thin, work out with light weights, above all be safe, and go for more repetitions, then gradually build up the weight. Also, take adequate time to rest, and while doing this, LISTEN TO RECORDINGS, and not just trombone or brass recordings either. Listen to pianists, string artists, woodwind artists, and don't limit yourself to just jazz or just classical. Practiing isn't always having the trombone on your face. Get involved in life--there are MANY other things in life that pertain to trombone playing other than just playing the trombone. Sincerely, Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:09:56 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto Message-ID: <001c01c08ba8$a388ec00$527bfea9@Ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C08B65.946245C0" I've been asked to fill in on 2nd bone for Shostakovich's 5th Symphony and Festive Overture. BeforeŹI commit, can anyone tell me how much alto clef there is in the 2nd bone part? Rod ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:49:06 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: West Side Story Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > West Side Story calls for a "soft-mute." Maybe I'm ignorant, but I have > no idea what it is. Any ideas? > > Also, in some places, the mute changes are really very fast. What do you > do guys do to keep up? > You mean the mute is supposed to be soft but the mute changes are hard? Hmm. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 Should part-time band directors be called semi-conductors? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:32:07 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: Rod Ellard Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Rod- I don't think there's a lot of alto clef in the second parts in either of those pieces, but it's definitely there. Also, some of the alto clef sections are below the staff - confusing if you're not reading it often. I would just get the part ahead of time, or get to the first rehearsal early and mark anything you need to. Jim Scott On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Rod Ellard wrote: > I've been asked to fill in on 2nd bone for Shostakovich's 5th Symphony and Festive Overture. Before I commit, can anyone tell me how much alto clef there is in the 2nd bone part? > > Rod > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:49:07 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'ellard@sprint.ca'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto Message-ID: <01C08B7B.D1CEC080.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rod, Lots of Russian music uses alto clef in the second trombone parts routinely. Shostakovich 5 and Festive Overture both are written predominently in alto clef. I don't know if any tenor or bass clef editions of these pieces exist, but sometimes publishers print alternate parts with more familiar clefs or transpositions. Take the gig. Don't let a little clef reading keep you from the fun of playing these two pieces. Steve Gamble -----Original Message----- From: Rod Ellard [SMTP:ellard@sprint.ca] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:10 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Shostakovich, 2nd bone, alto I've been asked to fill in on 2nd bone for Shostakovich's 5th Symphony and Festive Overture. Before I commit, can anyone tell me how much alto clef there is in the 2nd bone part? Rod << File: ATT00000.htm >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:56:16 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: hanstrombonist@ananzi.co.za, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: <3A785FD0.947A087C@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hans, In the production that I played in I used a Jo-ral cup, Tom Crown straight and a plunger (Aqua Force, I believe). The fast mute changes are annoying but something that needs to be practiced just as much as the rest of the chart. I wrote in where I needed to have the mute in my lap often many bars ahead of where I actually needed it. We ignored the soft mute marking and just used straight mutes, worked just fine. If I were to make a recommendation it would be for the stone lined straight for the soft mute section or a wick cup mute without the cup. It depends on what you have for your regular straight and how much contrast you can get between the two. My 2 cents. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:16:03 -0600 From: "Billy Cordova" To: Cc: "Trombone-L" Subject: Re: Freezing bells for stress relief Message-ID: <00fb01c08bba$4163a080$2ddeb4d0@sfasu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan, What, could you explain what you mean by cold-working the solder joint. Billy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: RE: Freezing bells for stress relief It's my feeling that cryogenic treatment of a horn actually cold-works the solder and does little to the brass. I just can't see what other mechanism could be at work here. It should be noted that a trumpet has far more solder joints than a trombone, so there should be a more noticeable change with a trumpet, than with a trombone. DanP >He posted some experimental results. They took spectra of the brass >vibration response before and after the process. There was no change. >Whatever is going on it is not stress relief (well we knew that, only heat >can relieve stress) and it doesn't change the brass vibrations. Be >interesting to figure out what really happens, there might be a cheaper >way. >(In the interests of fairness, I have to add that his raters felt the >horns did improve, but the measurements didn't show a difference. ) > >Or the possibility still exists that it is still all a misperception - the >horns don't really come back improved at all. I will reserve judgement on >that question but lean toward the skeptical end. (on the general >assumption >that if there isn't a credible scientific theory, we want some pretty >rigorous evidence before belief) The fact that it isn't stress relief does >not prove there is no improvement, it just eliminates one explanation. But >it should make you ask for better data. > >One thing is for sure, Wayne is an honest guy or he wouldn't post results >like this in public. If you're going to have it done at least make sure >you >use Wayne! >yours, > > I remember this thread came up a few years ago, but I just had my Shires > > bell frozen at the Brass Bow by our friend Wayne Tanabe. > > > > This bell is one that I had really liked the sound on, but had a problem > > with instability that I didn't like in an ensemble setting. I did not >know > > what would happen but really wanted to see, and felt the cost was worth >a > > try. > > > > Wayne froze the bell and tuning slide, and on its return, the stability > > problems went completely away. I had just gotten a new (hand picked) >Bach > > from Gary Greenhoe because it was so incredibly stable and now both >horns > > play equally as well. > > > > Not only am I thrilled with the unexpected results, but Wayne is such a > > pleasure to deal with that I felt compelled to share this with the list. > > > > I can give more detailed information offline regarding the specific > > improvements here, if you are interested. > > > > FYI, The Brass Bow's phone is (847) 253-7552 and Wayne's email is > > BRASSRX@aol.com if you wish to contact him. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:25:40 -0600 From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: 4 bone tunes Message-ID: <001e01c08bbb$add470e0$8fc2180a@davidpoz.xal.megared.net.mx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone out there in trombone land have a list of orchestra tune that use 4 bones? I know about the Mahler, Wagner and Puccini tunes. We finally have a good fourth trombone player and I would like to suggest some tunes to the conductor that have us all playing. Thanks all. David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:31:59 -0600 From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: wood mutes Message-ID: <001f01c08bbc$7adeace0$8fc2180a@davidpoz.xal.megared.net.mx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At the request of our conductor, our orchestra is going to purchase a set of Denis Wick wood mutes for the trumpet and trombone sections to play on our upcoming performance of Mahler 8. Would this be historically correct? Is that what those guys used back then? What else could we use them on? Thanks all. David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:32:19 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: <005101c08bc0$29b23360$5881fc3e@q9y6f8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "H du Plooy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: West Side Story > West Side Story calls for a "soft-mute." Maybe I'm ignorant, but I have no idea what it is. Any ideas? Seems like either the composer, arranger or orchestrator knows nothing about mutes. Does he want the horn to play quietly, or is he looking for some special quality of sound? If the former, then it is possible to play Open softly. If the latter, the writer needs to hire a trombonist (or brass player) to demonstrate the timbral qualities of his mutes. I know this doesn't help you Hans, but I had to say it. He is probably looking for a felt lined Cup. On the other hand, a Bucket gives that wonderfully velvet-like Basie brass sound, but not too many players seem to have them as part of their equipment nowadays. Other possibilities are Hat (another obsolete idea) or Half Plunger. Take your pick. > Also, in some places, the mute changes are really very fast. What do you do guys do to keep up? If it's too fast, don't do it. You are likely to damage your horn. Another instance in which the writer has not done his homework (even if it is Bernstein himself). A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:39:26 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: <3A7877FE.44A26710@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Drover wrote: Another > instance in which the writer has not done his homework (even if it is > Bernstein himself). ============================================================ Oh golly! Sacrilege, Sacrilege! Not Leonard! Oh my. Gary Maxwell ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:48:05 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: 4 bone tunes Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:25 PM -0600 1/31/01, David Pozos wrote: Does anyone out there in trombone land have a list of orchestra tune that use 4 bones? I know about the Mahler, Wagner and Puccini tunes. We finally have a good fourth trombone player and I would like to suggest some tunes to the conductor that have us all playing. Off the top of my head, not a comprehensive list, but a few things include (leaving out Verdi, Puccini, Wagner and Strauss operas and their attendant orchestra permutations, and the pieces with tenor tuba or bass trumpet such as Ein Heldenleben, Rite of Spring, etc, which would necessitate a trombone player playing those parts on a different instrument): ===== Janacek Sinfonietta In The House of the Dead Berg Wozzeck (including excerpts with orch alone) Five Orchestra Songs (Altenberg Lieder) Three Pieces Strauss Alpine Symphony Schoenberg Pelleas und Melisande Erwartung 5 Orchestra Pieces Variations for Orchestra Prokofiev Scythian Suite Ligeti Atmospheres, Mahler Symphonies 1, 2, 3, 6, 8, 10 (Cooke version) Harbison Concerto for Double Brass Choir Berlioz Requiem Bernstein Prelude, Fuge and Riffs Bach/Stokowski Prelude and Fugue in d ===== -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:30:50 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: <41.6c43b5e.27a9de0a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or a whole plunger tilted in the bell works swell?? ode to pipes?? beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:32:33 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: wood mutes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi List, I just wrote to David about the Trumcor mutes. They are really great "soft" mutes. I use the term soft, as it is bouncing around today with a question. My understanding has always been when a soft mute is requested, it refers to cardboard/wood combinations, rather than metal mutes. Since I've purchased my Trumcor mutes; Lyric (straight) and cup, I've had no problem with conductors asking for soft mutes, yet these babies can play very loud....comparable to good metal mutes too. They are extremely even throughout the range and speak very easily. I can't say enough about them. Our trumpet section bought a set of them when they were first available and raved about them, but I was skeptical until I broke down and bought one....and I've not looked back. Anyone want to buy a bunch of Wicks? If you would like more information on them, check their website: http://www.trumcor.com/ regards, Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of David Pozos Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 1:32 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: wood mutes At the request of our conductor, our orchestra is going to purchase a set of Denis Wick wood mutes for the trumpet and trombone sections to play on our upcoming performance of Mahler 8. Would this be historically correct? Is that what those guys used back then? What else could we use them on? Thanks all. David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa www.osx.org.mx ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:36:30 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: maxwellg@bcsd.k12.ca.us, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: <7b.facf402.27a9df5e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are to study Lennie, not vice-versa beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:50:21 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: 4 bone tunes Message-ID: <20010131215021.21364.qmail@web10312.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Pozos wrote: > Does anyone out there in trombone land have a list of orchestra tune > that > use 4 bones? I know about the Mahler, Wagner and Puccini tunes. Strauss Alpine Symphony Maybe Sinfonia Domestica too? Gabe __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:02:41 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: <3A787D71.14F1E119@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit H du Plooy wrote: > West Side Story calls for a "soft-mute." Maybe I'm ignorant, but I have no idea what it is. Any ideas? > Hans, If I saw "soft mute" I would guess it meant bucket mute. Ask the conductor what he/she wants. >Also, in some places, the mute changes are really very fast. What do you do guys do to keep up? As somebody else said, most people put the mute in between the legs or on the lap. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:05:46 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: 4 bone tunes Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Maybe Sinfonia Domestica too? Nope (but it does have parts for 4 saxophones: Soprano, alto, baritone and bass!). -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:27:09 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: PBS special Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a little be-bop de-bop I received today.... Try to enjoy! Narrator: Skunkbucket LeFunke was born in 1876 and died in 1901. No one who heard him is alive today. The grandchildren of the people who heard him are not alive today. The great-grandchildren of the people who heard him are not alive today. He was never recorded. Wynton Marsalis: I'll tell you what Skunkbucket LeFunke sounded like. He had this big rippling sound, and he always phrased off the beat, and he slurred his notes. And when the Creole bands were still playing De-bah-de-bah-ta-da-tah, he was already playing Bo-dap-da-lete-do-do-do-bah! He was just like gumbo, ahead of his time. Announcer: LeFunke was a cornet player, gambler, card shark, pool hustler, pimp, male prostitute, Kelly Girl, computer programmer, brain surgeon and he invented the internet. Stanley Crouch: When people listened to Skunkbucket LeFunke, they heard Do-do-dee-bwap-da-dee-dee-de-da-da-doop-doop-dap. And they knew even then how deeply profound that was. Announcer: It didn't take LeFunke long to advance the art of jazz past its humble beginnings in New Orleans whoredom with the addition of a bold and sassy beat. Wynton: let me tell you about the Big Four. Before the Big Four, jazz drumming sounded like BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick. But now they had the Big Four, which was so powerful some said it felt like a Six. A few visiting musicians even swore they were in an Eight. Stanley: It was smooth and responsive, and there was no knocking and pinging, even on 87 octane. Wynton: Even on gumbo. Announcer: When any musician in the world heard Louis Armstrong for the first time, they gnawed their arm off with envy, then said the angels probably wanted to sound like Louis. When you consider a bunch of angels talking in gruff voices and singing "Hello Dolly," you realize what a stupid aspiration that is. Gary Giddy: Louis changed jazz because he was the only cat going Do-da-dep-do-wah-be-be, while everyone else was doing Do-de-dap-dit-dit-dee. Stanley: And that was very profound. Marsalis: Like gumbo. Stanley: Uh-huh. Matt Glaser: I always have this fantasy that when Louis performed in Belgium, Heisenberg was in the audience and he was blown away and that's where he got the idea for his Uncertainty Principle. Marsalis: Because the Uncertainty Principle, applied to jazz, means you never know if a cat is going to go Dap-da-de-do-ba-ta-bah or Dap-da-de-do-bip-de-beep. Wynton: Louis was the first one to realize that. Stanley: And that can be very profound. Stanley: I thought it was a box of chocolates... Announcer: The Savoy Ballroom brought people of all races colors and political persuasions together to get sweaty as Europe moved closer and closer to the brink of World War II. Savoy Dancer: We didn't care what color you were at the Savoy. We only cared if you were wearing deodorant. Stanley: Wynton always wears deodorant. Glaser: I'll bet Arthur Murray was on the dance floor and he was thinking about Louis and that's where he got the idea to open a bunch of dance schools. Stanley: And that was very profound. Giddy: Let's talk about Louis some more. We've wasted three minutes of this 57-part documentary not talking about Louis. Wynton: He was an angel, a genius, much better than Cats. Stanley: He invented the word "Cats." Wynton: He invented swing, he invented jazz, he invented the telephone, the automobile and the polio vaccine. Stanley: And the internet. Wynton: Very profound. Announcer: Louis Armstrong turned commercial in the 1930s and didn't make any more breakthrough contributions to jazz. But it's not PC to point that out, so we'll be showing him in every segment of this series to come, even if he's just doing the same things as the last time you saw him. Glaser: I'll bet Chuck Yeager was in the audience when Louis was hitting those high Cs at the Earle Theater in Philadelphia, and that's what made him decide to break the sound barrier. Stanley: And from there go to Pluto. Wynton: I'm going to make some gumbo- Stanley: BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick-BOOM-chick.. Giddy: Do-yap-do-wee-bah-scoot-scoot-dap-dap...That's what all the cats were saying back then. Announcer: In 1964, John Coltrane was at his peak, Eric Doolphy was in Europe, where he would eventually die, the Modern Jazz Quartet was making breakthrough recordings in the field of Third Stream Music, Miles Davis was breaking new barrier with his second great quintet, and Charlie Mingus was extending jazz composition to new levels of complexity. But we're going to talk about Louis singing "Hello Dolly" instead. Stanley: Louis went, Ba-ba-yaba-do-do-dee-da-bebin-doo-wap-deet-deet-do-da-da. Wynton: Sweets went, Scoop-doop-shalaba-yaba-mokey-hokey-bwap-bwap-tee-tee-dee. Giddy: I go, Da-da-shoobie-doobie-det-det-det-bap-bap-baaaaa... Announcer: The rest of the history of jazz will be shown in fast forward and will occupy exactly seven seconds. There, that was it. Now here are some scenes from Ken Burns' next documentary, a 97-part epic about the Empire State Building, titled "The Empire State Building." "It is tall and majestic. It is America's building. It is the Empire State Building. Dozens of workers gave their lives i the construction of this building." Matt Glaser: I'll bet that they were thinking of Louis as they were falling to their deaths. I have this fantasy that his high notes inspired the immenseness of the Empire State Building. Wynton Marsalis: I'll bet most people who'd fall off the Empire State Building would go "Aaaaaahhhh!" But these cats went "Dee-dee-daba-da-da-bop-bop-de-dop-shewap-splat!" "That's next time on PBS.">> Gary Greenhoe Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra Greenhoe Musical Instrument Components http://www.greenhoe.com gary@greenhoe.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:29:46 EST From: Agapebassbone@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Thanks! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d.fa19846.27a9ebda_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline To all who are concerned I got word that my brother is doing fine. ŹA friend of his called and relayed the message to my family...We have not actually talked to him yet. ŹThis is certainly a load off my mind especially when I began hearing about a fix and six digit death from last week's earthquake. Ź I just wanted to say thanks for those who sent supportive emails and such. Ź You know who you are. Thanks Josh ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:41:16 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Freezing bells for stress relief Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It's my feeling that cryogenic treatment of a horn actually cold- works the solder and does little to the brass. What, could you explain what you mean by cold-working the solder joint. Iāll try. When you bend a piece of metal, say a wire hanger, you can only bend it a few times before it gets brittle and breaks. The reason it doesnāt break the first time you bend it is because it is still malleable (annealed) from when the wire was manufactured. But each time you bend it, or cold work it, you add stress to that area of the wire. That stress actually makes the wire harder, but also makes it more brittle. You might notice that the second time you try to bend the wire, in the same place, it actually wants to bend in a slightly different place. Thatās because the first place you bent the wire is already cold worked. That stress, youāve added to the crystalline structure of the metal can be compared to stretching a rubber band. When you first start stretching a rubber band (putting stress on the rubber band) itās easy to stretch it out for the first inch. Once thereās a bit of stress already on the rubber band, that is, itās already partially stretched, itās harder to stretch it another inch, in length. Thatās because it already has internal stress. The difference between the rubber band and metals is that metals plastically deform it stressed past their elastic limit. If you only slightly bend the wire hanger, it will spring back to its original shape. If you bend it further it will not spring back all the way. You have exceeded its elastic limit and plastically deformed the wire. The only way to relieve that internal stress is to heat the metal up, until itās hot enough to again be annealed. At that temperature, the metal is fluid enough for the atoms to be moved to new positions, by the forces of the internal stress. Now, if you freeze a trombone, the different metals will shrink at different rates. The brass is stronger than the solder, so it will primarily put stress on the solder. If that stress plastically deforms the solder, the solder will be hardened, as a result. Acoustically, cold working the solder could reduce the damping that the solder joints normally exhibit and the horn might resonate more as a whole unit, as a result. Again, until this has been checked out, it is only a hypothesis (fiction), but I havenāt come up with any other way that a cryogenic treatment could alter the sound of a brass instrument. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:45:04 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > West Side Story calls for a "soft-mute." Maybe I'm ignorant, but I have no idea what it is. Any ideas? There are cloth bucket mutes, but I can't tell, from the description, whether that what they're talking about. Iād listen to the soundtrack recording and try to figure out whether theyāre talking about playing at a ćsoft volumeä or a soft mute. DanP _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:00:11 -0500 From: "Ted Toulouse" To: hanstrombonist@ananzi.co.za, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: West Side Story Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hans, For the soft mute stuff, you could also us a hat-type mute mounted on a stand (room permitting) if the mute change is fast. Or what we did was just play into the stand for the soft mute parts. But something that you can play into and get out of quickly. My 2 cents. Ted Toulouse _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:23:55 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Freezing bells for stress relief Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010131231741.01e88df0@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:41 PM 1/31/2001 +0000, Daniel Pliskin wrote: When you bend a piece of metal, say a wire hanger, you can only bend it a few times before it gets brittle and breaks. The reason it doesn't break the first time you bend it is because it is still malleable (annealed) from when the wire was manufactured. But each time you bend it, or cold work it, you add stress to that area of the wire. That stress actually makes the wire harder, but also makes it more brittle. You might notice that the second time you try to bend the wire, in the same place, it actually wants to bend in a slightly different place. That's because the first place you bent the wire is already cold worked. Many years ago, when in high school, I attended a lecture by a metallurgist. He demonstrated that concept in a very powerful way. He had an aluminum rod about 9 inches long and about 1/2" diameter. He picked from the audience the tiniest girl he could find and the biggest hulking football jock guy. He began by asking the girl to bend the rod, which she did with ease. Then he asked the guy to straighten it back out. Lots of laughter ensued when the thing wouldn't budge. >Acoustically, cold working the solder could reduce the damping that the solder joints >normally exhibit and the horn might resonate more as a whole unit, as a result. That certainly sounds plausible. But isn't there also a possibility that the freezing is "cold working" the flat brass too at the molecular level, making all the metal (not just the joints) more brittle? More brittle = more responsiveness and more vibrant overtones, which is what people keep reporting about this process. I'm a skeptic too, but when 30 people see the same flying saucer land here, I have to wonder. Later, Craig ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 02:08:24 -0500 From: "Ted Toulouse" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Metal Freezing and Instrument Repair Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Hello all, I haven't been following the discussion about instrument freezing very closely but thought this web site might help along with several other great repair and maintenance tips from some top professionals. It includes tips for beginners on up to professional procedures like Cryogenic Treatment. (Those of you in the Kansas City area already know about Mike Webb at Funk's in Olathe I hope!!) Here's the address: http://www.instrumenthospital.com Check out the "101 Ways" section. Also, FYI, "Dr. Mike" knows of a place in Kansas City that will freeze your horn for around $50!! It's a great deal!! Ted Toulouse Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1940--