TROMBONE-L Digest 1928 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Custom Trombones by sabutin@mindspring.com 2) Re: Edwards T2 Brass leadpipe wanted by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 3) Reunion Blues double by "Gary Greenhoe" 4) Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1927 by "J L Jensen" 5) Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording by Farquhar3@aol.com 6) Presidential Inaugaration festivities by "Richard Zemry Johnson" 7) Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 8) Re: venting by Richard Corliss 9) I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You by "Porter" 10) Re: Custom Trombones by Richard Corliss 11) RE: Presidential Inaugaration festivities by "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" 12) Elliott mpieces, was Re: monette by Gabriel Langfur 13) Re: Elliott mpieces, was Re: monette by David Buckley 14) Callet leadpipe by David Buckley 15) Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities by Neobopr@aol.com 16) Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities by David Oliver 17) Re: Callet leadpipe, Tuning in the Slide, Custom Horns, Artificial Aids by "Rod Ellard" 18) Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities (oops) by David Oliver 19) Fwd: Re:Shires trombones by Chicojbass@aol.com 20) Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You by Earl Needham 21) Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You by "Jeff Albert" 22) Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 23) Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You by "Hector Bourg Jr." 24) Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You by "Jeff Albert" 25) Re: I'm Getting Sorta Mental Over You by Matmutt@aol.com 26) Re: I'm Gettin Semi-mental Over You by Beth Lewis 27) Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities by Neobopr@aol.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:26:29 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: agraves@du.edu Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Custom Trombones Message-ID: <200101201432.JAA26981@blount.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:22 PM 1/19/01 -0700, you wrote: >Call me an amateur, but I have a question. >I am looking at buying an Edwards Trombone. It was recommended to me because >of the ability to customize it with different components that would enhance my >personal sound. While I agree that different trombones have different sounds, >(that's just physics and the tiny differences that cause different vibrations, >etc.) it seems to me that the only person that can enhance my sound is me. >How much of a difference do different types of trombones/components make? Am >I just not putting two and two together here? I seem to be missing something. ================================= Different sizes. different brands and designs, different alloys and weights, different components...all can have a tremendous effect on how a horn sounds and plays, and all can have a tremendous effect on each other, as well. Change one component, and it affects the OTHER components as well. A near infinity of near infinities, a never ending set of variations on a theme. This being the case, it can be very confusing even to the greatest players to go equipment shopping and assembling. Most players...and this is not a put down, just a fact...are too inconsistent themselves to REALLY be able to know what the cause of differences in the blow of a horn might be, at least in the short term. (I count myself among that number...day by day, minute by minute I adjust, change...that's how I approach the horn.) Taking this into account, most players need sustained time w/a given set of components to really know what's what, and most players who are not really experts can NEVER completely settle on a set of components, because they themselves are so huge a variable. You say you are an amateur. If that means you are not a really highly developed player, I would strongly suggest that you start off by buying a horn that is similar to the horns that are played by people whose playing you really admire. Spend a few years with it. THEN maybe you can start to alter it, customize it somewhat, or get another horn that suits you better. Amateurs often have more available cash than pros and advanced students...alas, music is often a penurious mistress...so if money is not a large hurdle, then find out what setups your favorite players who play Edwards, Shires or Conn use (Conn is ALSO offering a huge number of components, and making some very good instruments), buy a horn like theirs, and learn how to play it. Edwards has had the good sense to offer their most popular designs as Getzen horns at a much lower price, and they are a bargain and a half, if you like the way Edwards horns play. Yamaha offers a number of fine horns at good prices (probably the best of the bunch in terms of quality control...). Bachs, particularly the 42 series (.547 bore) offer a classic design w/a few available modernizations (open wrap, different valves) and a few alloy choices as well. I have played some Benge and Blessing horns that are really good also, plus a number of small bore Kings (and some of their basses as well) that are perfectly good horns for jazz and non-orchestral general business work. It all depends on how much effort and expense you can afford, but going to a factory and trying 100 different combinations of components PROBABLY isn't the best or most efficient way an amateur or student can buy a horn. If you admire the approaches Dave Taylor or Doug Yeo (or Christian Lindberg or Joe Alessi or Slide Hampton or Bill Harris or J.J. Johnson or Ed Kleinhammer or early Jack Teagarden, for that matter...you don't necessarily have to buy a NEW horn or design...), find out what they play(ed), try out as many examples of that horn as you can afford to get to, buy the one that feels and sounds the best, and learn how to play it. THEN get complicated, if you so wish. ====================== >Also, does it seem to anyone that some people (I am not naming any specific >person, I don't know enough to do that) might use this as a crutch; an excuse >to not perform at their best because their trombone "doesn't work for them"? ====================== Yes, that's a common cop out,...but it's also commonly quite true. Some perfectly good horns can be terrible in certain people's hands...they just don't work for them...and many (most???) others have certain things they don't like to do...high, low, loud, soft, fast, legato, flexible, centered, pretty, powerful, etc. Finding a horn is a series of compromises...NO horn (or player, really)"does it all" well...but playing ANY horn, once you've decided and decided well, is simply a matter of perseverance. I have played about 8 tenor trombones as my "primary" horns in my 25+ year career, and although that works out to about 4-5 years per horn, several of them were played simultaneously, a couple were played for well over 10 years, and ALL the changes were due either to my own growth and change as a player or due to stylistic changes in the music I was making. I also bought one horn during that time that, although it was VERY "good", I just couldn't play well...wrong timbral characteristics for the way I wanted to play at the time. (Even w/THAT horn, it took me 8 or 9 months of trying to learn how to play it before a friend suggested that if I wanted to sound like I had a straight mute in the horn when I was playing it open, I had found the right instrument.) I advocate always trying to play a horn that's better than you are, being very careful in the horns you buy, and committing to ANY equipment at LEAST until no amount of practice over a substantial period of time renders any appreciable results in the directions in which you are trying to go. Almost every equipment change is initially a step backwards...you have to learn how to play it first...so the butterflies who flit from one horn, m'pce or leadpipe to the other every few weeks or months are usually never really SOLID on their instruments. Don't ever say a carefully chosen piece of equipment of component doesn't work for you until you've given it MONTHS of real effort...and CAVEAT EMPTOR. (Buyer beware...actually SHOULD be buyer be "aware" in this instance...) Later... S. > >agraves > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:45:22 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Edwards T2 Brass leadpipe wanted Message-ID: <000c01c082f8$03957280$9d621a3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C082CE.171E27E0" Dear listers, If anyone out there has an extra Edwards T2 BRASS leadpipe they would want to part with, please reply to me off list. Thank you very much. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:08:57 -0600 From: "Gary Greenhoe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Reunion Blues double Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List, I just ordered and received a Reunion Blues double trombone gig bag from Steve Ferguson. I must say Steve is offering excellent service and is stocking items that none of the "big" stores are even aware of. I have been looking for a bag that offers the versatility of this bag, so ordered it with some skepticism, thinking it would really be a compromise all the way around. To my amazement, this bag seems less cumbersome than my earlier single RB bags and offers (to my standards) credible protection for any number of combinations of horns/parts that I wish to transport. I realize there are numerous list members that cringe at using any of these types of bags. I must say, after using "gig bags" for 30 years and using some care, I have had no problem carting my instruments around with them...and this one is the best of the soft bags, IMHO. Whatever your needs may be in trombone related items, I strongly suggest you check out Steve's site or contact him before you order anything from many of the impersonal megastores! He has very competitive pricing, knows our needs, and offers excellent personal service! BTW, he has a new site address: www.steveferguson.net regards, Gary Greenhoe Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra Greenhoe Musical Instrument Components http://www.greenhoe.com gary@greenhoe.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:14:20 -0500 From: "J L Jensen" To: Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1927 Message-ID: <015f01c082fc$0cb48320$9b3e2c42@jljbone> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could you please resend this digest issue? (1927) The attachment won't open for me. Thanks! John Jensen jljbone@erols.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: TROMBONE-L digest 1927 > > TROMBONE-L Digest 1927 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) RE: Zwillich Concerto Recording > by "Andrew Elms" > 2) Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording > by Douglas Yeo > 3) Re: Mazzeo clarinet (no 'bone content) was G bass > by Douglas Yeo > 4) Sound "reinforcement" > by Dave Molter > 5) Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording > by Beth Lewis > 6) Re: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) > by john wasson > 7) Re: Shoutin' Liza Trombone > by "Joe L. Norcross" > 8) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet > by Earl Needham > 9) Re: Mikes > by sabutin@mindspring.com > 10) Re: Sound "reinforcement" > by Walter Barrett > 11) RE: Monette Mouthpieces > by "Richardson, Tim" > 12) RE: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) > by "Richardson, Tim" > 13) RE: Monette Mouthpieces > by "Andrew Elms" > 14) My method book, "The American Trombone" > by sabutin@mindspring.com > 15) monette trombones? > by chardy@totcon.com > 16) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet > by "Thomas Smee" > 17) RE: Monette Mouthpieces > by mpurdy@jwpepper.com > 18) alto review > by "David Pozos" > 19) Re: Mikes > by David Buckley > 20) Re: Sound Reinforcement > by "Neal Schermerhorn" > 21) Chicago Jazz Band in Milwaukee 1/19-20/01 > by "Christopher Smith" > 22) Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > by Galen Zinn > 23) Recordings > by Brett Wilson > 24) It's the dreaded Verdi fever! > by "R Miller" > 25) Re: Long positions > by "R Miller" > 26) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet > by "Thomas Smee" > 27) Re: Larsson concertino (interpretation) > by Earl Needham > 28) Re: Fw: Tap Music Online Order > by "Thomas Smee" > 29) venting > by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur > 30) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet > by Earl Needham > 31) Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > by "Dean McCarty" > 32) Re: venting > by James Scott > 33) cacking and venting > by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur > 34) Jazz/Fun Concerto? > by FOpal@aol.com > 35) Houston Symphony/Bonetown > by MasterCoda@aol.com > 36) Re: Monette Mouthpieces > by "Tom Izzo" > 37) re: alto review > by "Joseph Sellmansberger" > 38) RE: Monette Mouthpieces > by "Andrew Elms" > 39) Re: Monette Mouthpieces > by "Tom Izzo" > 40) FRIDAY NIGHT AT THE NAVAL ACADEMY > by "Jeffrey Diehl" > 41) Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > by Douglas Yeo > 42) Re: cacking and venting > by Jay Heltzer > 43) FW: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > by "cobalt321" > 44) Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > by "Dean McCarty" > 45) RE: Monette Mouthpieces > by Dave Tall > 46) Re: Long positions > by "Tom Izzo" > 47) Jazz Camp announces its 17th Year: Trombonists Save $ > by JazVermont@aol.com > 48) Re: Jazz/Fun Concerto? > by David Burch > 49) Electronic music (was Re: Mikes) > by sabutin@mindspring.com > 50) RE:Was Larsson concertino - now judging preparation > by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" > > 51) Re: Monette trombones and mouthpieces > by Douglas Yeo > 52) Interpretation (Larsson and others) > by TboneGib@aol.com > 53) Re: Electronic music (was Re: Mikes) > by ROSEBONE@aol.com > 54) King 2b trombones for sale > by chitrbn@webtv.net (John McGrath) > 55) Re: Interpretation (Larsson and others) > by "Chuck De Paolo" > 56) Re: What a Wonderful Trombone World > by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." > 57) monette > by "Darren Jukes" > 58) I need - hmmm - I believe they're called "charts" > by "Tom C. Shaddox" > 59) RE: venting > by Steve Gamble > 60) Re: monette > by Gabriel Langfur > 61) Performances on the web > by "Tom C. Shaddox" > 62) Re: G bass > by "Tom C. Shaddox" > 63) Re: monette > by sabutin@mindspring.com > 64) "Instrument Rebarbatif" > by "Thomas Smee" > 65) Re: monette > by David Buckley > 66) Re: "Instrument Rebarbatif" > by David Buckley > 67) Re: monette > by MasterCoda@aol.com > 68) Finding recordings > by Douglas Yeo > 69) Re: monette > by "modelerd" > 70) Custom Trombones > by agraves > 71) Re: Custom Trombones > by E PLukas > 72) Re: Custom Trombones > by Craig Parmerlee > 73) Re: Custom Trombones - Zen > by "Rod Ellard" > 74) Re: monette > by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur > 75) Re: Brass Quintet Music > by David Burch > 76) Brass quintet music for weddings > by David Burch > 77) Re: I need - hmmm - I believe they're called "charts" > by Candice & Eric Swanson > 78) Re: Custom Trombones - Zen > by David Burch > 79) Brass History Quiz > by "Brad Howland" > 80) Brass History Quiz > by "Brad Howland" > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:58:42 EST From: Farquhar3@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, My sister got me one for Christmas -- I think from TAP. You might give them a call. Bob Sanders In a message dated 1/18/01 4:23:41 AM, yeo@yeodoug.com writes: << I wonder if TAP actually has stock, or if it's in the catalog based on a promised release date which has been pushed later... >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:13:07 -0600 From: "Richard Zemry Johnson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Presidential Inaugaration festivities Message-ID: <003d01c0828e$eb8c9600$05cf4fd8@zemry> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just curious, do we have any list members playing at any of the wide, various and sundry inaugaration events this weekend? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:32:42 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: zemry@bellsouth.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu, TubaEuph@egroups.com Subject: Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities Message-ID: <74.70680d5.279b25ba@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am not aware of any member of either list playing in the Inauguration festivities but that fellow or lady who played the Euph during the Kentucky chior number out to be.. that was beautiful. Presidents Own Marine Band. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:27:40 -0600 From: Richard Corliss To: "orchpers@azstarnet.com" , Trombone-l mailing Subject: Re: venting Message-ID: <3A69D89C.F81DF9B6@astound.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, thanks for this post. In the past I've looked for information on what makes trills work and how to understand the phenomenon - without much luck. I know that one is suppose to work on the Remington excercises and try to increase one's speed to the point that they become trills. In increasing my speed I wonder at times whether indeed I might be doing trills, and asked myself when fast slurs become trills. I asked an expert this question once and he said that when the notes become something that you cannot control it becomes a trill. I had another great jazz soloist deny this and he claimed that there was no difference between a fast slur and a trill. Your comments suggests a continuum between fast slurs and trills where the better trills rely heavily on the airflow facilitating the movement of note to note. This phenomena might lead someone to say that the movement is not controllable because much is tied to the lubricating airflow and not as much to the voluntary movements of the embochure. Richard Corliss Steve Gamble wrote: > Peter, > > Your right...it's really not a trick, but I do have a suggestion (or two). > Trills began to become usable for me when I began to think of them as two > real notes alternating in rapid succession. I would never practice trills > any faster than I could play the two notes with a beautiful tone. Little > by little the speed would increase. Making a great sound the first > priority seemed to help keep the air moving much more easily. The > sensation for me, in comparison to when the trills weren't so good, is that > my lips seem to be using the air stream as a sort of lubricant. I know > that sounds a little strange. (I almost never try to describe the > sensation of playing to anyone. More often than not, it just makes things > more confusing.) My lips move so easily from one note to the other if I'm > moving the air enough. I think practicing trills on the mouthpiece really > helps get the point (about trills being two real notes) across very > vividly. After a lot of years of practice, I can trill as high as I can > play. > > Good luck on your audition. > > Steve Gamble > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur [SMTP:sarapete@sympatico.ca] > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:24 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: venting > > Hello list, > > I just need to do a bit of venting here, not something I am apt to do > normally. > > Just practicing for the Kennedy Center audition and working on my > TRILLS! ARGGHHHHH! Kodaly, Hary Janos, mvt IV, from reh 3, glisses up to > high Ab and then trill on the Ab. I will do what I have to do for the > audition and I will jump through the hoops necessary, but I WILL NOT > LIKE IT! > > Whew. End of vent. Aside from that, what the heck is with that excerpt. > I have only had to prepare it once before for Cape Town (anybody else) > and at least that was on tape. Every where else just asks starting at > the G-C glisses a few bars later. I will ask the question but I am > pretty sure of the answer: Does anybody have any tricks for this one? > ...didn't think so. > > Back to the horn. > > Peter Collins > Bass Trombone > Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:40:52 -0800 From: "Porter" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You Message-ID: <001001c08321$47fd0ea0$0300a8c0@cary> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone out there recomend an arrangment for "I'm Gettin Sentimental Over You" that I can easily purchase from a vender like Hickey's. Thanks Cary Porter Baylor University ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:22:11 -0600 From: Richard Corliss To: Trombone-l mailing Subject: Re: Custom Trombones Message-ID: <3A69E563.F49EE649@astound.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have received some good advice on this thread. I don't want to take issue with any of it, but only report my experience that may be relevant. First, let me repeat something that Sabutin said: sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > > If you admire the approaches Dave Taylor or Doug Yeo (or Christian > Lindberg or Joe Alessi or Slide Hampton or Bill Harris or J.J. Johnson or > Ed Kleinhammer or early Jack Teagarden, for that matter...you don't > necessarily have to buy a NEW horn or design...), find out what they > play(ed), try out as many examples of that horn as you can afford to get > to, buy the one that feels and sounds the best, and learn how to play it. > > THEN get complicated, if you so wish. > After forty years away from the trombone I decided to pick it up again and I had no decent instrument - only a beginner's model which dated back to the forties. I knew I was only interested in the smaller bore jazz horns. I was in awe of what Dorsey did and knew that he played a King 2b. I then started to collect older small bore horns that had a good reputation. One thing I was told was that the older Conns and Kings were often considered better than the newer ones. Over a period of five year period I have collected about 12 instrument and paid for most of them between $100 and $500. There were two exceptions to this - a sterling silver 2b for $850 and Conn 6h for $675. I bought the brass King 2b very early for $225. Once you start to study older instrument you come to realize that parts are often interchangeable and you can sometimes pick up very inexpensively a good bell. Good slides are more difficulat to find and something to treasure. This collection of instruments gives me flexibility in terms of how I want to sound. The two instrument I use regularly I choose because of the group I play with and the place where we play. This is not an argument against buying a new instrument, but just a thought that there is another way to go. Richard Corliss ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:26:55 -0500 From: "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" To: zemry@bellsouth.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Presidential Inaugaration festivities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Actually, as fate would have it, I had the opportunity to play at the innauguration. The marching band here at JMU was selected to march in the parade. However, due to an excessive amount of homework to do this weekend, I opted out. On one hand I'm sure it would have been an amazing opportunity. On the other, I'd rather pass my classes than be able to brag about marching in a parade. -Joshua On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:13:07 -0600 Richard Zemry Johnson wrote: > Just curious, do we have any list members playing at any of the wide, > various and sundry inaugaration events this weekend? > ---------- Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson Bass trombone, James Madison University Bass trombone, Marching Royal Dukes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Elliott mpieces, was Re: monette Message-ID: <20010120195142.27144.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Doug designs the shanks to mmatch the cups, so the H8 shank should be used with the H cup. Now, whether or not you agree with him that that's the best match is another question! Years ago, when I played an Elliott bass setup, I used a K cup with an L8 shank. I told him about it & he wasn't happy at all. In a more recent conversation, he conceded that his bass trombone shanks could maybe use some redesigning, but that he didn't really have time to do it. He probably will try not to sell you an H8 shank with anything other than an H cup. For something similar to a 5G, I'd suggest trying both the G and H cups, and keep an open ear. Test blind if you can, because your brain will tell you that you should get a bigger sound from a deeper cup...but that's not always the way it works. And don't get rid of your 5G, 'cause you really might like it better! Gabe --- MasterCoda@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of Doug Elliot mouthpieces, I was just > about to order one...I know i > want a H8 Shank and LT101 Rim, but I'm not sure how > the cup sizes go. Can > anyone help me out with Doug Elliot cup sizes, > similar to a 5G? Or give me > the Doug Elliot website? > Many thanks, > Peter Strenkowski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:10:09 -0500 From: David Buckley To: glangfur@yahoo.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Elliott mpieces, was Re: monette Message-ID: <3A69F0A1.A3A9AAC@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug and I had the same discusion. I began using a 103 rim with a G cup on my Conn 88h and really liked it. When I acquired a Bach 36 I got a G shank to fit the Bach figuring I would use the G cup. The G cup did not work so we decided on an F cup. Doug sent me an F shank to go with the F cup but I felt more comfortable with the G shank. Doug did not think this was the way to go but it worked for me. Besides top quality machining, this ability to go with the best combination for you is the wonderful thing about Doug's mps. Of course as Sabutin said about horns, you have to do enough work to be reasonably consistent before you can determine what works best. Dave. Gabriel Langfur wrote: > Doug designs the shanks to mmatch the cups, so the H8 > shank should be used with the H cup. > > Now, whether or not you agree with him that that's the > best match is another question! Years ago, when I > played an Elliott bass setup, I used a K cup with an > L8 shank. I told him about it & he wasn't happy at > all. In a more recent conversation, he conceded that > his bass trombone shanks could maybe use some > redesigning, but that he didn't really have time to do > it. He probably will try not to sell you an H8 shank > with anything other than an H cup. > > For something similar to a 5G, I'd suggest trying both > the G and H cups, and keep an open ear. Test blind if > you can, because your brain will tell you that you > should get a bigger sound from a deeper cup...but > that's not always the way it works. And don't get rid > of your 5G, 'cause you really might like it better! > > Gabe > > --- MasterCoda@aol.com wrote: > > Speaking of Doug Elliot mouthpieces, I was just > > about to order one...I know i > > want a H8 Shank and LT101 Rim, but I'm not sure how > > the cup sizes go. Can > > anyone help me out with Doug Elliot cup sizes, > > similar to a 5G? Or give me > > the Doug Elliot website? > > Many thanks, > > Peter Strenkowski > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:15:36 -0500 From: David Buckley To: Trombone-L Subject: Callet leadpipe Message-ID: <3A69F1E7.69FA6BCE@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Partch has just put a Callet leadpipe in my Bach 36 and so far it works well. It definitely makes a difference. As best as I can tell, the Bach now sounds more like a slightly smaller version of my Conn 88h. Since I like the Conn sound better than the Bach, for me that is an improvement. The sound is more complex and more open with excellent focus in the low register. I haven't noticed much difference in the upper register which Ron says should happen. Maybe you have to have an upper register first. What are others' opinions? Regards. Dave. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:41:09 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities Message-ID: <40.651f876.279b5ff5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was very thankful to be at the Clinton send-off at Andrews Air Force Base and not in the parade this year. Alot less of a time committment. Artist/Clinician for Yamaha: Jeff Adams ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:19:13 -0800 From: David Oliver To: Neobopr@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities Message-ID: <3A6A2AFF.19D3FB03@accessnetusa.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw it live on ABC, and the trombones were in the front row. Were you in the hanger? I think I counted at least 5 trombones as Clinton walked by. David Oliver Broomfield, CO USA Trombone, Denver Concert Band BTW, one of the bands did the "American the Beautiful" arrangement most of us have done a million times with a choir at the actual ceremony. It sounded good. It didn't take me long to recognize the arrangement. Neobopr@aol.com wrote: > I was very thankful to be at the Clinton send-off at Andrews Air Force Base > and not in the parade this year. Alot less of a time committment. > > Artist/Clinician for Yamaha: Jeff > Adams ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:36:48 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Callet leadpipe, Tuning in the Slide, Custom Horns, Artificial Aids Message-ID: <001d01c08339$e040ede0$fee894d1@ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David and all: My new [to me] 62H came with a stock pipe and a Minick pipe. I don't know which is which but the one that was in the horn when I received it is definitely superior to my ears/chops. The other pipe sounds almost "sour" by comparison. A couple of other questions and comments: 1. The 62H has tuning in the slide. Any maintenance tips (an obvious one being not to stand the horn on the slide)? 2 Re: Custom Horns - I think one has to realize that the quest for the perfect horn is endless. Even if you were to take Sabutin's advice and buy a setup similar to that of your favourite player, your favourite player may be on the same quest as well. Alessi has gone from Bach to Edwards, Bousefield has gone from Conn to Yamaha to Conn, JJ was playing Yamaha last time I paid attention. I thought Mark Lawrence played Conn but he had a Bach last weekend. Jeff Reynolds has been described as a "Conn player" but plays a Getzen. Sabutin has gone from Bach to vintage Conns to Shires in the last several years and Hary K. has sold nearly everything and dissed the rest. There are a lot of great horns out there. Buy the one you like and when you don't like it anymore, buy another! And, if you're lucky, maybe you'll find a keeper along the way. And it's always nice to have a few spare horns around. 3. More custom horns - There was one person in the masterclass last weekend at Trombonology who had a distinctively different sound, a very different tonal colour. It was especially noticeable in the circumstances of the masterclass. I expect it is an equipment issue. I wonder what effect it would have had in an audition? 4. Last weekend, I noticed a bass trombonist dabbing his chops with Vaseline just before playing. (Chapped lips?) He also wore a black glove on his left hand. For support? I probably should have asked him about it. Rod ----- Original Message ----- From: David Buckley To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 12:15 PM Subject: Callet leadpipe > Ron Partch has just put a Callet leadpipe in my Bach 36 and so far it > works well. It definitely makes a difference. As best as I can tell, the > Bach now sounds more like a slightly smaller version of my Conn 88h. > Since I like the Conn sound better than the Bach, for me that is an > improvement. The sound is more complex and more open with excellent > focus in the low register. I haven't noticed much difference in the > upper register which Ron says should happen. Maybe you have to have an > upper register first. > > What are others' opinions? > > Regards. > > Dave. > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:55:49 -0800 From: David Oliver To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities (oops) Message-ID: <3A6A338E.F9EB1561@accessnetusa.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's "America the Beautiful"... David Oliver David Oliver wrote: > I saw it live on ABC, and the trombones were in the front row. Were you in the > hanger? I think I counted at least 5 trombones as Clinton walked by. > > David Oliver > Broomfield, CO USA > Trombone, Denver Concert Band > > BTW, one of the bands did the "American the Beautiful" arrangement most of us > have done a million times with a choir at the actual ceremony. It sounded good. > It didn't take me long to recognize the arrangement. > > Neobopr@aol.com wrote: > > > I was very thankful to be at the Clinton send-off at Andrews Air Force Base > > and not in the parade this year. Alot less of a time committment. > > > > Artist/Clinician for Yamaha: Jeff > > Adams ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:19:07 EST From: Chicojbass@aol.com To: Subject: Fwd: Re:Shires trombones Message-ID: <68.b4d3d2b.279b84fb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_Part_3a6a2afb-02d4-53d1-010203040506" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are 4 Shires at Dillon Music in New Jersey 732-634-3399 2 Greenhoe and 2 Thayers Joe Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (rly-zd04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.228]) by air-zd05.mail.aol.com (v77.31) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:57:38 -0500 Received: from po.missouri.edu (po.missouri.edu [128.206.12.137]) by rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:57:20 -0500 Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27306; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:57:15 -0600 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27216 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:56:44 -0600 Received: from s (user-2ive60s.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.24.28]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA31366 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:56:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:53:13 -0500 Reply-To: sabutin@mindspring.com Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Precedence: bulk From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re:Shires trombones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: sabutin@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN At 12:34 AM 1/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >Dear List Members, > >I have a few questions about Shires Trombones. > >My first one is this. Of those of you who have been to the plant. Have you >been able to walk out with a horn or receive one within a few weeks or is >the wait longer. > ================== Depends on what components you choose and how his orders are going. Chances are, though, you'll have to wait a little. ================== >Also what are some of your comments or thoughts about these horns period. ======================= I spent several months...and made several trips to the factory DURING those months...trying different components for my .525 horn. The horn that I have assembled is VERY good. I compared it w/several top of the line .525s at the IAJE last weekend, and it was by far the best playing horn (for me) of any of them. In general, Steve's horns seem have their own playing characteristics no matter what components are chosen...a sound that remains civilized and elegant no matter HOW hard it's pushed and VERY quick response characteristics being two of the most attractive ones to me. I sometimes wish they were a little more massive sounding, like Conns from the '30s, but I think if they WERE they would respond slower (also like Conns from the '30s). Sometimes they remind me of very good Mt. Vernon Bachs, only more projecting, a VERY little brighter and somewhat opener blowing. Compared to contemporary Bachs, Yamahas, Kings, and all but a very few Conns I've played, they are simply better in every respect. Compared to Edwards horns, Shires horn seem more easily colored...that is, Edwards horns to me seem to be very well slotted but rather monochromatic as a result...one sound comes out no matter WHAT goes in. They are very good, but somehow a little uninteresting, a little too safe. (Again, that's MY opinion.) There are innumerable European horns becoming available in the US these days. I've had a little time on a few of them, but can't really say much about them other than that some very good players sound great on them. ============================ >I am planning on visiting the factory this weekend on my way to visit some >friends in Manchester NH. > >Thanks in advance. > >Bart M. Roberts >Trombonist >Cardinal Brass Quintet >Assistant Director of Bands >Ball State University ===================== Good luck. I hope you find a great horn. I personally cannot make final decisions about horns or components in one session or in a room I do not really know. I have to play them for a few days and hear them in my own practice area and in several other familiar working situations before I REALLY know what's what. Fortunately Steve Shires is as accommodating as he possibly can be in this regard. S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:50:36 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: Cary_Porter@baylor.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010120184918.00addde0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:40 PM 1/20/01 -0800, Porter blasted the following out into the ether: Can anyone out there recomend an arrangment for "I'm Gettin Sentimental Over You" that I can easily purchase from a vender like Hickey's. Thanks Cary Porter Baylor University There's one by Warrington that's a third lower than the original but might be available. Does anyone know of one in the original key that is currently available? I don't feel the horn "sings" properly as low as the Warrington is done. Thanks, Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:02:45 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You Message-ID: <007001c0834e$3f62c820$027a1442@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm used to seeing the stock, written on two staves, one in D and one in Bb. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Needham" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 7:50 PM Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You > At 12:40 PM 1/20/01 -0800, Porter blasted the following out into the ether: > >Can anyone out there recomend an arrangment for "I'm Gettin Sentimental Over > >You" that I can easily purchase from a vender like Hickey's. > > > >Thanks > > > >Cary Porter > >Baylor University > > There's one by Warrington that's a third lower than the original but > might be available. > > Does anyone know of one in the original key that is currently > available? I don't feel the horn "sings" properly as low as the Warrington > is done. > > Thanks, > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG > Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) > > Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, > you breathe...) > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:16:31 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: KD5XB@amsat.org, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You Message-ID: <6f.100e3598.279bae8f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The one I used which I cannot remember now who published it, started on the chorous on first line A in Base Clef went to A above the staff. I had another that started on e natural third space and went to e natural above the bass clef staff. The one that made the p-shooter sing and I am sure the one T Dorsey played was the A to A arrangement. These of course were for the tenor trombone. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:54:34 -0600 From: "Hector Bourg Jr." To: Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You Message-ID: <001a01c08366$40409110$0a01a8c0@hn9nz49oeloz7b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You > The one I used which I cannot remember now who published it, started on the > chorous on first line A in Base Clef went to A above the staff. > > I had another that started on e natural third space and went to e natural > above the bass clef staff. The one that made the p-shooter sing and I am > sure the one T Dorsey played was the A to A arrangement. Nope! Dorsey played C# to C#. In fact, that high c# is usually the highest in all of the well known TD solos, if he recorded any solo with a note higher, i have yet to hear it. I've always found that curious for I'm sure he was capable of playing higher. The most amazing rendition I've evr heard however was done by Buddy Morrow, who played the TD solo up an octave...to the double high C#! Just incredible! HB ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:39:00 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Seintimental Over You Message-ID: <008e01c08364$13a7b4a0$027a1442@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The most amazing rendition I've evr heard however was done by Buddy Morrow, > who played the TD solo up an octave...to the double high C#! Just > incredible! > > HB When I was on the road with the Dorsey band led by Buddy Morrow, Buddy would fairly regularly end getting sentimental with a cadenza up to F# at the end of a four hour gig. He was 78 years old at the time... Jeff ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:56:22 EST From: Matmutt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: I'm Getting Sorta Mental Over You Message-ID: <9b.fc9e20c.279bc5f6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks; There were several "stock" arrangements of IGSOY, originally in Bb, including the Warrington version. There is also a stock arrangement with the Bb chart and the D version both represented. Dorsey RAISED the original key a third to D, not the other way around. Jack Teagarden did it in the key of C ( a compromise?) . Most original stock arrangements don't give the "B" section to the solo bone ( boo) which is a greater sin than key choice. I have found that except for other trombone players and a couple guys in the band, most people and even most musicians won't know or care which key you play it in. You can spice up the Bb version by doing the last 4 bars 8va ( also where the same phrase occurs prior). That tops it off at treble clef D. Do-able for most anybody who aspires to stand out front and play solos. If anyone knows where to acquire the dual Bb, D chart I have a friend who would dearly like to have it. The spelling on this list is atrocious. Larry Priori ( the passionate amateur) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:12:29 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Porter Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I'm Gettin Semi-mental Over You Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My jazz band played an Al Cobine arrangement of this last semester. I don't know if it's in print (or ever was), but it's another good one to watch out for. There is also an arrangement that the Carnegie Hall Jazz Band recorded by Jim McNeely (in D I think), though I don't know if that has been published either. Beth Lewis On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Porter wrote: > Can anyone out there recomend an arrangment for "I'm Gettin Sentimental Over > You" that I can easily purchase from a vender like Hickey's. > > Thanks > > Cary Porter > Baylor University > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:42:06 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Presidential Inaugaration festivities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/01 7:24:35 PM, dcoliver@accessnetusa.com writes: <> 6 in front by my count. I'm also the official Unit Photographer so I was there in that capacity today--even better situation. Jeff ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1928--