TROMBONE-L Digest 1927 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Zwillich Concerto Recording by "Andrew Elms" 2) Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording by Douglas Yeo 3) Re: Mazzeo clarinet (no 'bone content) was G bass by Douglas Yeo 4) Sound "reinforcement" by Dave Molter 5) Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording by Beth Lewis 6) Re: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) by john wasson 7) Re: Shoutin' Liza Trombone by "Joe L. Norcross" 8) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet by Earl Needham 9) Re: Mikes by sabutin@mindspring.com 10) Re: Sound "reinforcement" by Walter Barrett 11) RE: Monette Mouthpieces by "Richardson, Tim" 12) RE: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) by "Richardson, Tim" 13) RE: Monette Mouthpieces by "Andrew Elms" 14) My method book, "The American Trombone" by sabutin@mindspring.com 15) monette trombones? by chardy@totcon.com 16) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet by "Thomas Smee" 17) RE: Monette Mouthpieces by mpurdy@jwpepper.com 18) alto review by "David Pozos" 19) Re: Mikes by David Buckley 20) Re: Sound Reinforcement by "Neal Schermerhorn" 21) Chicago Jazz Band in Milwaukee 1/19-20/01 by "Christopher Smith" 22) Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) by Galen Zinn 23) Recordings by Brett Wilson 24) It's the dreaded Verdi fever! by "R Miller" 25) Re: Long positions by "R Miller" 26) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet by "Thomas Smee" 27) Re: Larsson concertino (interpretation) by Earl Needham 28) Re: Fw: Tap Music Online Order by "Thomas Smee" 29) venting by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 30) Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet by Earl Needham 31) Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) by "Dean McCarty" 32) Re: venting by James Scott 33) cacking and venting by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 34) Jazz/Fun Concerto? by FOpal@aol.com 35) Houston Symphony/Bonetown by MasterCoda@aol.com 36) Re: Monette Mouthpieces by "Tom Izzo" 37) re: alto review by "Joseph Sellmansberger" 38) RE: Monette Mouthpieces by "Andrew Elms" 39) Re: Monette Mouthpieces by "Tom Izzo" 40) FRIDAY NIGHT AT THE NAVAL ACADEMY by "Jeffrey Diehl" 41) Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) by Douglas Yeo 42) Re: cacking and venting by Jay Heltzer 43) FW: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) by "cobalt321" 44) Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) by "Dean McCarty" 45) RE: Monette Mouthpieces by Dave Tall 46) Re: Long positions by "Tom Izzo" 47) Jazz Camp announces its 17th Year: Trombonists Save $ by JazVermont@aol.com 48) Re: Jazz/Fun Concerto? by David Burch 49) Electronic music (was Re: Mikes) by sabutin@mindspring.com 50) RE:Was Larsson concertino - now judging preparation by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 51) Re: Monette trombones and mouthpieces by Douglas Yeo 52) Interpretation (Larsson and others) by TboneGib@aol.com 53) Re: Electronic music (was Re: Mikes) by ROSEBONE@aol.com 54) King 2b trombones for sale by chitrbn@webtv.net (John McGrath) 55) Re: Interpretation (Larsson and others) by "Chuck De Paolo" 56) Re: What a Wonderful Trombone World by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 57) monette by "Darren Jukes" 58) I need - hmmm - I believe they're called "charts" by "Tom C. Shaddox" 59) RE: venting by Steve Gamble 60) Re: monette by Gabriel Langfur 61) Performances on the web by "Tom C. Shaddox" 62) Re: G bass by "Tom C. Shaddox" 63) Re: monette by sabutin@mindspring.com 64) "Instrument Rebarbatif" by "Thomas Smee" 65) Re: monette by David Buckley 66) Re: "Instrument Rebarbatif" by David Buckley 67) Re: monette by MasterCoda@aol.com 68) Finding recordings by Douglas Yeo 69) Re: monette by "modelerd" 70) Custom Trombones by agraves 71) Re: Custom Trombones by E PLukas 72) Re: Custom Trombones by Craig Parmerlee 73) Re: Custom Trombones - Zen by "Rod Ellard" 74) Re: monette by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 75) Re: Brass Quintet Music by David Burch 76) Brass quintet music for weddings by David Burch 77) Re: I need - hmmm - I believe they're called "charts" by Candice & Eric Swanson 78) Re: Custom Trombones - Zen by David Burch 79) Brass History Quiz by "Brad Howland" 80) Brass History Quiz by "Brad Howland" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:15:01 -0500 From: "Andrew Elms" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Zwillich Concerto Recording Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe that this is the Michigan State University Symphony Orchestra. Zwillich also recently composed a piece for some of the botanical gardens here at M.S.U. I believe this was recorded last year. Funny how I see it on a website before anybody here at school tells me it is out yet... Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Randy Campora Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 12:40 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Zwillich Concerto Recording I don't know if this has been mentioned on the list before, but on Tap Music's site (www.tapmusic.com) I noticed that Charles Vernon's performance of the Concerto for Bass Trombone, Strings, Timpani and Cymbals is featured on a CD of the music of Ellen Taffe Zwillich on the Koch label (#7487). Also on the disc are the composer's Symphony No. 4 and Concerto for Horn (David Jolley, soloist). I don't know who the orchestra is, it might be CSO with whom he premiered the piece and of which Zwillich was Composer in Residence, but that's a guess. -Randy Campora ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra Peabody Conservatory of Music campora@peabody.jhu.edu 410-461-1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:24:42 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 12:40 AM -0500 1/18/01, Randy Campora wrote: I don't know if this has been mentioned on the list before, but on Tap Music's site (www.tapmusic.com) I noticed that Charles Vernon's performance of the Concerto for Bass Trombone, Strings, Timpani and Cymbals is featured on a CD of the music of Ellen Taffe Zwillich on the Koch label (#7487). Also on the disc are the composer's Symphony No. 4 and Concerto for Horn (David Jolley, soloist). I don't know who the orchestra is, it might be CSO with whom he premiered the piece and of which Zwillich was Composer in Residence, but that's a guess. It's with the Michigan State Orchestra conducted by Leon Gregorian. However, I've had a copy on order at both Tower and Amazon.com for months and it hasn't arrived, I wonder if TAP actually has stock, or if it's in the catalog based on a promised release date which has been pushed later... This recording and many others for bass trombone I'm aware of is listed on my bass trombone discography resource at http://www.yeodoug.com/btrbrec.html -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:44:32 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mazzeo clarinet (no 'bone content) was G bass Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I spoke to my colleague, Craig Nordstrom, who replaced Mazzeo as bass clarinetist of the Boston Symphony. He's seen the bass clar with the low A flat extension, but does not know WHY Mazzeo made it. It is now owned by a player in New York City, Dennis Smiley. It apparently has a very large bell as well. Craig indicated that perhaps Mazzeo liked the extension because it gave more resonance to the notes above the concert A flat; he also may have extended some passages downward when the natural line may have gone there. Mazzeo, as has been said, liked to tinker with things, it may have been as simple as that. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:38:12 -0500 From: Dave Molter To: trombone-L , Walter Barrett Subject: Sound "reinforcement" Message-ID: <3A66F1C4.5BFCD477@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Barrett said, in part: <<"At the very least, maybe they should get the rhythm section to play quieter.">> And that's the hardest thing in the world to do, Walter, at least from my experience in the amazing world of rock n roll. Very few players -- especially younger ones -- realize that the level of sound on stage must be kept to a minimum when mics are used. Maybe the problem isn't as prevalent today, after almost 30 years of bands using mics on amplifiers in even he smallest clubs, but it certainly was back in the late '60s and early '70s, when the business of miking a rock band was being invented. When I began playing electric bass ina six-pice band with horns back in 1966 in clubs that held anywhere from 50 to 300 people, I had a 50 watt Fender Bassman with two 12" speakers. I never turned the colume past 3. The guitar player and organists each had 35 watt amps, and the PA system was a 40 watt amplifier pushing two PA columns with six 10" speakers each. We had no stage monitors, and tapes of the band produced by sticking a mike out in the crowd show that our sound was balanced and our vocals in tune. In 1971 I joined a seven piece band with three horn players that played in many of the same venues. By this time, my bass amp was 150 watts, the guitar player's amp was 100 watts and the organist had a monster Leslie speaker being driven by a 300 watt amp. The PA was 600 watts driving four 15" woofers and two high frequency horns. We had five vocal monitors aimed at us being driven by 300 watts. All the instrumets -- including the guitar amps -- had mics on them. The bass amp was not miked because the cabinet I used was a folded horn that threw the sound out so that optimum sound happened about 30 feet from the stage. For me to be able to hear my bass onstage, my amp was turned up to 7. I attempted to get the guitar and organ players to turn down. Never happened. We could not hear our vocals onstage, and tapes taken directly from the board are terrible. Since I haven't been to a rock club or concert in many years, I don't know if any of today's vocal based groups have learned the lesson that controlled sound from the stage is a must. I can tell you that the last time I covered concerts as an entertainment editor the sound was uniformly awful and way too loud for every type of act, from Joe Diffie to Van Halen. Doug Yeo is right -- that level of sound makes the listening experience less than enjoyable. In many ways I wish we would go back to non-amplification for everyone except the singers. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Zwillich Concerto Recording Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think this recording is out already. When Charlie Vernon came to IU for masterclasses last year, he had several copies with him. I'm not sure if he's taking orders personally, but that (if it isn't stocked by any online dealers at all) may be a good place to start. Beth Lewis On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Douglas Yeo wrote: > At 12:40 AM -0500 1/18/01, Randy Campora wrote: > > >I don't know if this has been mentioned on the list before, but on > >Tap Music's site (www.tapmusic.com) I noticed that Charles Vernon's > >performance of the Concerto for Bass Trombone, Strings, Timpani and > >Cymbals is featured on a CD of the music of Ellen Taffe Zwillich on > >the Koch label (#7487). Also on the disc are the composer's Symphony > >No. 4 and Concerto for Horn (David Jolley, soloist). I don't know > >who the orchestra is, it might be CSO with whom he premiered the > >piece and of which Zwillich was Composer in Residence, but that's a > >guess. > > > It's with the Michigan State Orchestra conducted by Leon Gregorian. > However, I've had a copy on order at both Tower and Amazon.com for > months and it hasn't arrived, I wonder if TAP actually has stock, or > if it's in the catalog based on a promised release date which has > been pushed later... > > This recording and many others for bass trombone I'm aware of is > listed on my bass trombone discography resource at > http://www.yeodoug.com/btrbrec.html > > -Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:24:10 -0600 From: john wasson To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) Message-ID: <3A670A93.6E08E07D@johnwasson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On big band volume, two anecdotes come to mind: 1. I heard John Fedchock at a clinic say the following to a roomful of high school-aged trombonists (and some trumpet players, I believe), in comparing his own NY Big Band to the typical high school jazz ensemble: "Your high school band probably plays louder than my band most of the time, but my band plays the accents louder than your band ever gets." He was, of course, remarking that it was the placement of the loud and soft dynamic contrasts that made for "perceived loudness". 2. I had a chance to hear the Mel Lewis band at the Vanguard in the summer of 1982 while on tour with a colleg band. I was absolutely captivated by the INCREDIBLE dynamics-the entire horn section literally breathed, swelled, punched, and pounded (where necessary) together as one unit. I have heard (and played with) lots of great big bands in my day, but that experience for some reason stays in my mind as exceptional. I remember literally not being able to breathe while listening, because I was hanging on every note. (Thank goodness they stopped between each song or I wouldn't have lasted the night!) john -- Adrian Drover wrote: I have to totally agree with you there Doug. I do not understand why today's bands need to project at such a ridiculous level. It spoils my enjoyment in both playing and listening. There is absolutely no way of achieving a good sound or balance when every musician is trying to outblow each other. And it is over-amplification that is the cause of this situation. Take away the mikes and get the electronic instruments to turn down their levels, then you are able to listen to each other again. Heaven! A. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= . johnwasson.com . . ...music solutions . . . . http://www.johnwasson.com . =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:58:01 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Shoutin' Liza Trombone Message-ID: <012401c0815f$0f1e63e0$1d37a5d1@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just buy the band version not that much, the piano can read off the short score Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds, Visalia Brass Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Horsley" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:19 PM Subject: Shoutin' Liza Trombone > I am looking for Henry Fillmore's Shoutin' Liza Trombone for trombone > and piano. Overall, any help in finding this piece would be appreciated. > I would even be willing to do a piano reduction from something. > > Thanks again, > Chad Horsley > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:07:51 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010118080703.00b42ce0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:26 PM 1/17/01 -0500, Thomas Smee blasted the following out into the ether: Tom, do you think you could send email as plain text? I've received several of your messages, through the list, with an .htm attachment. Thanks, Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:04:04 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: joetuba@lightspeed.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mikes Message-ID: <200101181609.LAA11246@hall.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:29 PM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: >I used to sing barbershop music. Some quartets got real modern and used 4 >mikes. There sound was never as good as when they would gather around a >mike or just sing to a small group of people. >The reason was that the blend that makes barbershop what it is requires the >people hear the total package to make the chord ring. A sound man can't do >it, only the quartet can. ================ Exactly. Same w/large ensembles, same w/soloists + rhythm sections. As soon as a sound is miked, the delicate balance of the overtone series is disturbed. What you get instead of an acoustic "us" approach as the sounds blend and dance in the air is a "me, you, him, her and them" feeling. The end result...the soloist WAY out front, the rhythm section acting as kind of a "Band in the Box". I have been accused of being somewhat reactionary on this list because of my stance on this matter, but I disagree w/that idea completely. The utter failure of the fusion movement to produce a lasting legacy of jazz...there are VERY few young fusion musicians coming up, and listening to the style in the present, it sounds MUCH more "dated" and strictly of its time than the acoustic styles that surrounded it...is due in large part, I believe, to its reliance on electronic sounds. The FRESHEST playing I have heard in NYC in the last 10 years has been almost entirely acoustic...Jason Lindner's Band, Brad Mehldau, Chucho Valdez...and the ensembles w/which I play that DO tend to rely on electronics to a greater or lesser degree, almost always lose their musical edge in direct proportion to the amount of amplification used. Louis Armstrong's sound, Teagarden's sound, Bird's sound, early and middle (pre amplified) Miles, 'Trane, Getz, .J.J...these sounds and styles do NOT "date" because they are so well balanced in an almost mathematical way...they reflect a high, PHYSICAL and EMOTIONAL understanding of the forces that govern the universe, something quite different (not better or worse, just different) from what the mind can perceive. Electronic sounds, however, are MIND driven. Sure they can to some extent be humanized, but the almost complete failure of synthesizers to produce anything but background music is the most eloquent defense of this idea that life has given us over the past 30 years or so. The amazing sound of Ellington's great bands, of Basie and Goodman, of the classic Gil Evans/Miles collaborations, of Thad Jones' writing...all because of their acoustic resonances. The interplay among the musicians in the classic bebop bands, in the "50s and '60s and '70s post-bebop movement...Mingus, Rollins, Monk, Mulligan, Brookmeyer, Jim Hall, etc...acoustic. When did it start to come apart, to my ears...??? When players such as Freddy Hubbard began to FORCE their sound in order to get over increasingly complex and powerful drummers like Elvin Jones and Art Blakey (no offense meant to Elvin, Freddy, Art or their styles...this is just what happened...they took their best shot...), when bass players and then pianists began relying on amplification and then later on electronic instruments in order to be heard, when the REAL performance money left the 200 seat clubs and moved to 3000 seat "Jazz Festival" arenas...FOOTBALL FIELDS, sometimes, for Heaven's sake!!!... About the only thing I learned from the Reagan family in this regard was to "Just say 'No" " to it all, as much as I am financially capable of doing so, and to insist on filling the horn enough so that it fully resonates even when I AM being electrified (electrocuted?) in some respect . (Unavoidable, when you get right down to it...all recorded music is electronic music; all music produced by speakers is "synthesized".) When Gil Evans went electric...and I played in that band, I know what I'm saying here...all that magic was lost. BANG BANG BANG, the guitar, synth and bass took over, and it was Strain City. ========================== >I would bet that if one listened to a rehearsal of a miked band without all >the electronics that the sound would be better than all miked up. >Electronic over use is killing the fun for the listener. When my ears hurt >at the volume, I can not enjoy the music. >Just my humble opinion > >Joe L. Norcross ============== Y'know what??? It's NOT just when your ears hurt. Even when some restraint is used, amplification STILL harms the music. Later... S, ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:46:13 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sound "reinforcement" Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/18/01 8:38 AM, Dave Molter at kingbone@earthlink.net sent forth into the cosmos: > Walter Barrett said, in part: > > <<"At the very least, maybe they should get the rhythm section to play > quieter.">> > > And that's the hardest thing in the world to do, Walter, at least from > my experience in the amazing world of rock n roll. Very few players -- > especially younger ones -- realize that the level of sound on stage must > be kept to a minimum when mics are used. Maybe the problem isn't as > prevalent today, after almost 30 years of bands using mics on amplifiers > in even he smallest clubs, but it certainly was back in the late '60s > and early '70s, when the business of miking a rock band was being invented. Dave, I agree wholeheartedly with your post! Having worked with rock bands myself, I have to agree, the onstage volume with inexperienced bands was, and still is, incredible. Having a sound man is no guarantee of good sound, either, as many of them are still at the Rubank book one level of competence. At the other end of the spectrum, the professional acts have some of the quietest stage levels around. The last time I played for Frankie Valli, I was amazed at how quiet it was on stage, the loudest thing was the horn section (7 players), and since they didn't give us a monitor, we had to lay back so that we could hear what was going on. The drummer was behind a 6 foot high Plexiglass partition, and everyone except the horns had those little wireless earphone monitors. You could actually have a conversation on stage! Most of my previous post was from the jazz quartet/big band perspective, and I think it has to start with the leader not letting things get out of hand. He also needs to use players, especially drummers, who are willing to set aside their own ego-fueled needs in service of the ART of making music. Let's face it, bass players, pianists, and horn players only NEED to be amplified in a large venue, but they're forced into it in small rooms by the drummer's volume, thus escalating the volume arms race! Club audiences are to blame also, firstly because they don't stop yakking away when the band is playing, so the volume coming off the stage needs to cover that up. Audiences of the baby boom generation and later have also been conditioned into listening to music at one of two levels, barely audible background music, and Spinal Tap loud. I can guarantee you, if you stand anywhere near a trumpet player like Jon Faddis, you won't be asking the sound guy to turn it up! On jazz gigs where I have a say about mikes, it's one mike for solos/announcements/witty banter with the audience, maybe 2 mikes to help fill out the sax section, and that's it. I don't understand why a big band in a place the size of the Vanguard needs to be miked up the wazoo, and I don't have any solutions, either, except to complain to the venue's manager, and be prepared to demand a refund and leave. If enough people do that, then it'll become a question of market-driven economics, and things will change. I'm done ranting for today, thanks! Walter Barrett Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:39:19 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'John'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12A5B@LEE2> Picked one up in a store once. Threw my back out. Put it back, went home and took some Motrin. I hear marsalis needs a personal trainer to stay strong enough to lift his trumpet, and Monette trombones are delivered by forklift. yours, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: John [SMTP:wahlbobs@teleport.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:45 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Monette Mouthpieces > > Wondering if any of you have experienced the > bliss of a Monette Trombone Mouthpiece? > If this has been covered before feel free to blast me. John > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:46:07 -0500 From: "Richardson, Tim" To: "'Douglas Yeo'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE206F12A5C@LEE2> Pop trained singers. What in the world is all that ornamentation, is it on purpose, or can't they sing a steady note? (you can see my age) However, I once heard a good opera singer talk about miking. (I can't remember any details, it was more than 30 minutes ago) He/she said that having to sing with the big voice to fill the hall was really more like screaming, it was a forced and strained effect, and that tasteful miking was revolutionary. It allowed splitting the chores - the mike for the power to project, and the voice for the nuances of expression and musicality. Until mikes, he/she went on, we didn't really know what the voice could sound like. The colors and dynamics available went far beyond what could be done before. I'm not expert enough to know who is right, I sing in my church choir without a mike! but it is an interesting opposite perspective. yours, always remembering that a difference in opinion does not mean a difference in principles, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Yeo [SMTP:yeo@yeodoug.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:19 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Singing for the mike (Was:Trigger Horns etc...) > > > >In a message dated 1/17/01 9:03:49 AM Central Standard Time, > >craig@acticalc.com writes: > > > ><< If one can't make a sound good enough to reach a mic as foot in front > of > >one, then there are probably some fundamental problems with tonguing and > >breath support, but that's just my opinion. >> > > At 10:36 AM -0500 1/17/01, Harykoz@aol.com wrote: > > > > >I am not sure that this statement is accurate. Would you make the same > >argument of a pop vocalist? > > > I generally would, about vocalists, certainly. In classical music, > miking is rarely done, apart from pickup for radio feed. Most > symphony orchestras and opera houses use no electronic enhancement > for vocalists. And classically trained singers have no difficulty > projecting over a 100 piece orchestra going full tilt in a large > concert hall. However, pop singers are a totally different genre, > most of whom were TRAINED as microphone users. They sing for the > mike, they don't sing for the hall, and as such, have developed a > completely different kind of vocal technique, a totally different > means of support and projection. After years of doing that, I think > it's fair to say, from my experience working with both classical and > pop singers, that there it is not easy (or perhaps it may even be > impossible) for a mike trained pop singer to go without the > microphone and fill up a big hall. They've just "evolved" into a > different way of singing. > > Whether or not this is a "fundamental problem" as Craig said, I don't > if I'd quite put it that way (although I suspect it probably is; at > least it is a backwards way of learning in my mind), but it is > certainly a fundamental OBSERVATION. This is why many of the > "created phenoms" you see in classical music (name Bocelli and > Charlotte Church, also Sarah Brightman) NEVER sing without sound > reinforcement. They sing for the microphone - always did, always > will - and can't make the transition to large hall without > reinforcement. > > I think what Craig is driving at (and I don't want to put words in > your mouth, Craig) is that having learned to sing properly is > antithetical to the way you have to sing if you are singing for a > microphone all the time. Your dynamic range with a mike is greatly > limited, for starters, as you never sing over mp to mf because the > sound man is taking care of the balance. You are limited - you are > not in control, someone else is. You sing "close" rather than "to > the back of the room" and you learn to move the mike to compensate > for the tessitura - if you're singing up high, instead of backing off > with the volume to keep a constant intensity, you just move the > microphone further away. That in itself is an art (I always felt that > Mel Torme used a mike as well or better than any pop/jazz vocalist I > ever saw), but it is not "proper" singing. I don't want to get into > a discussion of elitism as to what "kind" of singing is proper or not > (and this is NOT about classical being "better" than jazz, so please > don't go there), but I'm making the point that being trained to use > the voice for what it is - natural, unadulterated, solo - is > important if a singer is going to be able to get the most out of it > and have the most options available. Using a mike short circuits a > lot of that process. A nice result can be gotten, for sure, but it > necessarily results in singers who are limited to using a mike. > That's not bad, it just is. > > As to whether or not sound reinforcement is necessary for > trombonists, I find it interesting that when I solo with the Boston > Pops or Boston Symphony, I don't need a microphone to be heard in the > back row despite (in the case of the Brubeck Bass Trombone Concerto) > a hard driving rhythm section backing me up. I also found it > interesting that when I heard the Mingus Band in Greenwich Village a > few years ago in a small club that seated no more than 300 people and > the room had a 10 foot ceiling, that the band felt the need to > reinforce its sound electronically to the point where double ear > plugs didn't even begin to lessen the pain (the band was quite good, > and Art Baron, Dave Taylor, Lou Soloff, and the rest of the band > played great, but the excessive sound level greatly diminished the > possibility of truly enjoying it). > > I don't have answers, just observations. > > When replying, remember: "Kindness is your tool, as a general rule..." > > -Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:06:00 -0500 From: "Andrew Elms" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry this is late... I heard list member Dave Tall play one a couple of years ago in practice. The mouthpiece gave the most beautiful, resonant, completely gorgeous sound in the universe. However, listening to what came out the bell, you could not hear a single articulation. I don't know if he ever solved that problem, but it was VERY noticeable. Noticeable to the point that I would not have played it in public before figuring it out. As for delivered by forklift... Does he currently make anything other that mouthpieces for trombones? I thought he gave that up. Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Richardson, Tim Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 12:39 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces Picked one up in a store once. Threw my back out. Put it back, went home and took some Motrin. I hear marsalis needs a personal trainer to stay strong enough to lift his trumpet, and Monette trombones are delivered by forklift. yours, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: John [SMTP:wahlbobs@teleport.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:45 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Monette Mouthpieces > > Wondering if any of you have experienced the > bliss of a Monette Trombone Mouthpiece? > If this has been covered before feel free to blast me. John > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:38:01 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: jjlist@egroups.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: My method book, "The American Trombone" Message-ID: <200101181842.NAA05002@hall.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all... For all of you who ordered a copy, I've shipped all the orders I've received so far. Please, once you get it, if you find ANY typos or discrepancies...or for that matter, if there are any unclear parts or you have any questions or suggestions...PLEASE get in touch w/me. This next printing is going to cost me a bundle...I'd like to have at least the most egregious errors and oversights out of the way. Also...the production aspects, shipping etc. has been as large a pain in the neck as I thought it would be, sooo... I'm also going to be offering the book in various digital forms as well...both Zip Disk and Floppy Disks (in Mac and PC formats) by snailmail, in Adobe PDF form (as soon as I get the program and learn how to use it to format the book) by way of the internet...and I'll be shipping coil bound books to places like Hickey's and Dillon's, once they're printed. Because of the inevitable digital leakage (digitized info ALWAYS begins to proliferate outside of its paid for container) I will charge the same for it in any of its forms...$49.95 directly from me; I don't know HOW it will be priced in music stores (probably more)... Thanks to all who ordered it so far.. S. P.S. My address is: Sam Burtis PO Box 194 Hastings NY 10706 Checks or money orders only, please. (I received a couple of payments through the mail by cash...PLEASE don't do that !!! Even I could feel the weight of the cash...postal thieves must be able to SMELL it !!!) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:42:17 -0500 From: chardy@totcon.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: monette trombones? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20010118174217.0075e610@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To: elmsandr@msu.edu >From: chardy@totcon.com >Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces > >At 01:06 PM 1/18/01 -0500, you wrote: >>Sorry this is late... >> >>I heard list member Dave Tall play one a couple of years ago in practice. >>The mouthpiece gave the most beautiful, resonant, completely gorgeous sound >>in the universe. However, listening to what came out the bell, you could >>not hear a single articulation. I don't know if he ever solved that >>problem, but it was VERY noticeable. Noticeable to the point that I would >>not have played it in public before figuring it out. >> >>As for delivered by forklift... Does he currently make anything other that >>mouthpieces for trombones? I thought he gave that up. >> >>Andy >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu >>[mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Richardson, Tim >>Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 12:39 PM >>To: Trombones and related issues forum. >>Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces >> >> >>Picked one up in a store once. >> >>Threw my back out. >> >>Put it back, went home and took some Motrin. >> >>I hear marsalis needs a personal trainer to stay strong enough to lift his >>trumpet, and Monette trombones are delivered by forklift. >> >>yours, >>tim richardson >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John [SMTP:wahlbobs@teleport.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:45 PM >>> To: Trombones and related issues forum. >>> Subject: Monette Mouthpieces >>> >>> Wondering if any of you have experienced the >>> bliss of a Monette Trombone Mouthpiece? >>> If this has been covered before feel free to blast me. John >>> >> >>Monette DOES NOT make trombones. Charlie ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:55:27 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: , Subject: Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry that my messages suddenly started going out in HTML format. Hopefully, I have now changed back to plain text. All I said in the message was that I saw the Vienna Trombone Quartet CDs at: http://www.tapmusic.com/ They're well worth getting. Tom >>> Earl Needham 01/18/01 10:07am >>> Tom, do you think you could send email as plain text? I've received several of your messages, through the list, with an .htm attachment. Thanks, Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:01:16 -0500 From: mpurdy@jwpepper.com To: elmsandr@msu.edu Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: <3A66F72C.12349.12D0EB1@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Andrew: I have not played Monette mouthpieces but have often worked with players that do. I would totally agree. My perception is that articulation is obfuscated with this set up. I base my opinion on hearing a few players on several different instruments. On 18 Jan 2001, at 13:06, Andrew Elms wrote: > Sorry this is late... > > I heard list member Dave Tall play one a couple of years ago in > practice. The mouthpiece gave the most beautiful, resonant, completely > gorgeous sound in the universe. However, listening to what came out > the bell, you could not hear a single articulation. I don't know if > he ever solved that problem, but it was VERY noticeable. Noticeable > to the point that I would not have played it in public before figuring > it out. > > As for delivered by forklift... Does he currently make anything other > that mouthpieces for trombones? I thought he gave that up. > > Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Richardson, > Tim Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 12:39 PM To: Trombones and > related issues forum. Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces > > > Picked one up in a store once. > > Threw my back out. > > Put it back, went home and took some Motrin. > > I hear marsalis needs a personal trainer to stay strong enough to lift > his trumpet, and Monette trombones are delivered by forklift. > > yours, > tim richardson > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John [SMTP:wahlbobs@teleport.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:45 PM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: Monette Mouthpieces > > > > Wondering if any of you have experienced the > > bliss of a Monette Trombone Mouthpiece? > > If this has been covered before feel free to blast me. John > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > www.mimesweeper.com > ********************************************************************** MWP mpurdy@jwpepper.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:24:11 -0600 From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: alto review Message-ID: <000901c08184$3cc3b960$8fc2180a@davidpoz.xal.megared.net.mx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Back in December I received a new alto trombone that I purchased from Steve Ferguson in California. It is by the Brazilian company Weril and it is a copy of the old Conn altos with tuning in the slide. It is a .500 bore and has a gold brass bell. It only cost $800. with hard case and mouthpiece so I thought I«d give it a try. This is a nice horn! I«ve been playing it with the orchestra this week on Beethoven 9 and more than a few people have commented on it«s pretty sound. The intonation is good but it takes some getting used to just like any other alto out there. The construction seems good. Mine had one small laquer blem on the hand slide crook but Steve told me about it before hand so no surprise there. If you«ve been wanting to play alto but didn«t want to shell out $1500 minimum then talk to Steve and he will fix you up. By the way, he play tests these horns before he sends them out. When I got mine it was lubed and ready to go. He also told me that Ralph Sauer visited his shop and tried out these horns and liked them very much. My reason for writing this letter is to get more of you interested in the alto trombone. I know that my students here in Mexico can only afford one horn but now the alto is a possibility as well and there is so much good music for it. Thanks for reading, take care. David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:06 -0500 From: David Buckley To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mikes Message-ID: <3A6747C2.B8E8EA8@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hurrah for Sam. I thought I was alone in these thoughts. Personally if I see a group with more sound men than players, I run as fast as I can. Part of the skill set is a sound with good support and a complete range of volumes. This is where you start. Anything you can do beyond that is a plus. Of course I might feel differently if I could play higher and faster by putting less air through my horn. Regards to all. Dave. sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > At 03:29 PM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: > >I used to sing barbershop music. Some quartets got real modern and used 4 > >mikes. There sound was never as good as when they would gather around a > >mike or just sing to a small group of people. > >The reason was that the blend that makes barbershop what it is requires the > >people hear the total package to make the chord ring. A sound man can't do > >it, only the quartet can. > > ================ > > Exactly. > > Same w/large ensembles, same w/soloists + rhythm sections. > > As soon as a sound is miked, the delicate balance of the overtone series > is disturbed. > > What you get instead of an acoustic "us" approach as the sounds blend > and dance in the air is a "me, you, him, her and them" feeling. > > The end result...the soloist WAY out front, the rhythm section acting as > kind of a "Band in the Box". > > I have been accused of being somewhat reactionary on this list because > of my stance on this matter, but I disagree w/that idea completely. > > The utter failure of the fusion movement to produce a lasting legacy of > jazz...there are VERY few young fusion musicians coming up, and listening > to the style in the present, it sounds MUCH more "dated" and strictly of > its time than the acoustic styles that surrounded it...is due in large > part, I believe, to its reliance on electronic sounds. > > The FRESHEST playing I have heard in NYC in the last 10 years has been > almost entirely acoustic...Jason Lindner's Band, Brad Mehldau, Chucho > Valdez...and the ensembles w/which I play that DO tend to rely on > electronics to a greater or lesser degree, almost always lose their musical > edge in direct proportion to the amount of amplification used. > > Louis Armstrong's sound, Teagarden's sound, Bird's sound, early and > middle (pre amplified) Miles, 'Trane, Getz, .J.J...these sounds and styles > do NOT "date" because they are so well balanced in an almost mathematical > way...they reflect a high, PHYSICAL and EMOTIONAL understanding of the > forces that govern the universe, something quite different (not better or > worse, just different) from what the mind can perceive. > > Electronic sounds, however, are MIND driven. Sure they can to some > extent be humanized, but the almost complete failure of synthesizers to > produce anything but background music is the most eloquent defense of this > idea that life has given us over the past 30 years or so. > > The amazing sound of Ellington's great bands, of Basie and Goodman, of > the classic Gil Evans/Miles collaborations, of Thad Jones' writing...all > because of their acoustic resonances. > > The interplay among the musicians in the classic bebop bands, in the > "50s and '60s and '70s post-bebop movement...Mingus, Rollins, Monk, > Mulligan, Brookmeyer, Jim Hall, etc...acoustic. > > When did it start to come apart, to my ears...??? When players such as > Freddy Hubbard began to FORCE their sound in order to get over increasingly > complex and powerful drummers like Elvin Jones and Art Blakey (no offense > meant to Elvin, Freddy, Art or their styles...this is just what > happened...they took their best shot...), when bass players and then > pianists began relying on amplification and then later on electronic > instruments in order to be heard, when the REAL performance money left the > 200 seat clubs and moved to 3000 seat "Jazz Festival" arenas...FOOTBALL > FIELDS, sometimes, for Heaven's sake!!!... > > About the only thing I learned from the Reagan family in this regard was > to "Just say 'No" " to it all, as much as I am financially capable of doing > so, and to insist on filling the horn enough so that it fully resonates > even when I AM being electrified (electrocuted?) in some respect . > (Unavoidable, when you get right down to it...all recorded music is > electronic music; all music produced by speakers is "synthesized".) > > When Gil Evans went electric...and I played in that band, I know what > I'm saying here...all that magic was lost. BANG BANG BANG, the guitar, > synth and bass took over, and it was Strain City. > > ========================== > > >I would bet that if one listened to a rehearsal of a miked band without all > >the electronics that the sound would be better than all miked up. > >Electronic over use is killing the fun for the listener. When my ears hurt > >at the volume, I can not enjoy the music. > >Just my humble opinion > > > >Joe L. Norcross > > ============== > > Y'know what??? > > It's NOT just when your ears hurt. > > Even when some restraint is used, amplification STILL harms the music. > > Later... > > S, ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:43:35 -0500 From: "Neal Schermerhorn" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Re: Sound Reinforcement Message-ID: <005601c08186$f6dc3000$0101a8c0@hppav> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can second that close-miking is a necessary evil. My main trombone job is as a member of a reasonably successful cover rock/r&b act in western MA. We're constantly altering our stage sound to enable us to play musically as well as at the sound levels club managers expect and large halls require. First, the rhythm section must become softer. The old adage quoted to me by lots of good sound guys is "Before you turn it up, try turning something else down." Otherwise it's a loud competition. If the sound must be loud, at least work out the balance at a lower level, then bring the whole mix up together, adjusting as needed. We set up with the horns on stage right, vocal and guitar on stage left, and bass drums and keys in the back from stage right to left. The bass amp points away from the horns at the drummer, the guitar amp is angled slightly up in front of the guitarist, and the keys amp is facing him as well. No amps point toward the horns. The horn section monitors contain only our mikes, and are mounted all around us, but not in front of us on the floor, as that's a feedback problem. (One night we had to set up with horns on the other side - could not hear ourselves at all! It's THAT critical.) The trumpet player and myself are perfectly capable of blowing the windows out, but we don't want to do this. So if all else fails, we are a little too soft in the mix. It's not worth ruining your face to be heard. BTW I use an AKG bell clip and it stays as far away as possible from the bell. Sure, mikes on stands provide an easier sound situation, but we are able to be more mobile and active on stage, and the crowd really goes for that. Bear in mind I've done jazz work with no mike in small rooms and the like, and prefer it to dealing with cables and monitors. Although I've never liked the sound of a mike in the bell myself, I went to school with Terje Nygaard, who loved it. We'd debate it from time to time, but there wasn't really any point. It's a musical choice. It can also be a crutch, but if you heard this cat play without a mike you'd never say that about him! I think mikes are hard to deal with on the trombone. Perhaps part of the problem is that a lot of people aren't very knowledgeable about it. A lot of sound guys I've had to work with know NOTHING about horns. We can't hear, we get no monitors, etc. I had a guy say once, "We ran out of slots on the board. Who wants to share a mike?" He ended up finding something, needless to say. It gets really complex in the rock world. For those of you with balance problems in your jazz groups, count your blessings, as it's relatively easy to fix, with the cooperation of the other musicians. So, it turns out there's no "I can't be heard" reason to stuff a bell up the mike at all. Why do it? You like the sound. I won't question people who go for a particular sound, but I might not like it. Still, it's a valid musical choice in my ear. Neal Schermerhorn ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:13:28 -0000 From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Chicago Jazz Band in Milwaukee 1/19-20/01 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, James Dapogny's Chicago Jazz Band will be in Milwaukee this weekend for two concerts and a clinic. This Grammy-nominated band performs classic and also near-forgotten jazz music (all original arrangements or band transcriptions) from the period between the two World Wars, with a special affinity for Duke, Jelly Roll, Teagarden bands, etc. The band's members are drawn from the ranks of top early jazz specialists from around the U.S. If you live in the Milwaukee area and would like to be comped into a show, let me know privately by tonight and I'll see what I can do. Details: Friday, Jan. 19th Chicago Jazz Band at Wisconsin Lutheran College 8 p.m. concert Center For Arts and Performance 8800 W. Bluemound Rd, Milwaukee 414-443-8875 Saturday, Jan 20th 4 p.m. lecture/demonstration/clinic I never know what these will be like, and don't have any details on this one other than the time. May be at the same venue. Call the College for more info. 8 p.m. concert, same location as Friday. ++++++++ In large auditoriums this 8-piece band is usually miked, but for sound reinforcement only......no bells swallowing mikes or mikes which are closer than a couple feet away from the horns. Bring your measuring tape. I'll be free for a get-together Saturday morning/early afternoon and will be bringing 2 horns and my traveling mute circus along in case of trombonist encounters. Later, Chris www.geocities.com/~christo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:22:07 -0800 From: Galen Zinn To: Trombone List Subject: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I would appreciate any big band arrangements you could suggest featuring bass trombone as a solo instrument that are currently available for purchase. Also, where are they available? Thanks, Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:26:32 -0500 From: Brett Wilson To: Trombone-L Subject: Recordings Message-ID: <3A675178.82273310@bgnet.bgsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all... I know this has been brought up before but can anyone recommend any trombone recordings? Thank you, Brett Wilson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:48:01 -0600 From: "R Miller" To: Subject: It's the dreaded Verdi fever! Message-ID: <007b01c0818f$f2778740$ade31d18@ce.mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cnn.com/2001/SHOWBIZ/Arts/01/14/verdi.anniversary/index.html R Miller ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:48:50 -0600 From: "R Miller" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Long positions Message-ID: <00bf01c08190$0fdd29c0$ade31d18@ce.mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Its the dreaded Verdi fever! Is there an antidote? http://www.cnn.com/2001/SHOWBIZ/Arts/01/14/verdi.anniversary/index.html R Miller ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:38:09 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This just in from Tap: "Thomas, Thank you for your order. The Vienna Trombone CD "Russian Melodies" is out of stock. We will ship everything else today. Sincerely, Charles Clements, Owner, Tap Music Sales" =============================== >>> "Thomas Smee" 01/18/01 01:55pm >>> Sorry that my messages suddenly started going out in HTML format. Hopefully, I have now changed back to plain text. All I said in the message was that I saw the Vienna Trombone Quartet CDs at: http://www.tapmusic.com/ They're well worth getting. Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:01:44 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: jfrye@utk.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Larsson concertino (interpretation) Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010118150020.00a80f00@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:18 PM 1/16/01 -0500, jfrye blasted the following out into the ether: In this particular recording, Slokar plays the first movement very freely, almost cadenza-like through the entire movement, and as I recall, it was very musical, which appealed to me. Upon hearing this recording, I decided to bend the markings on the page and bring out the music that I felt was in the piece. My teacher agreed with this and coached me on aspects on timing, phrasing, and musicality, and by the time it came to recording, I was thoroughly satisfied with the musical result, however the judges at ETW were not as pleased. In the finals that year, all of the finalists played the movement straight forward, and (my opinion) did not bring out everything that could have been in the movement. Too many "judges" at auditions of various types don't seem to know MUSIC, so they instead look for sizzle... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:01:36 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Re: Fw: Tap Music Online Order Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More from Tap: >>> "Charlie Clements" 01/18/01 05:05pm >>> Thomas, That explains it [presumably a rush of orders for Vienna Trombone Quartet CDs]. I wish you could have let me know somehow ahead of time. Unfortunately, it may be several weeks to get these. The Vienna Trombone Quartet recordings come from Japan via a middleman due to language and other barriers. Neither one of these CDs will be on the site tomorrow, because I am never sure, when I run out of these - as I did last night, whether or not I will be able to get more. I don't like aggravating customers unneccessarily. I try to keep what is listed on the site as accurrate a representation of what I have in stock as possible. You may want to pass on the word that I am expecting to get more and I will list them on the site again when I have them. Thanks for mentioning Tap Music. I just wish it had been something for which I actually had a reliable source. Sincerely, Charles Clements, Owner, Tap Music Sales ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:23:50 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: venting Message-ID: <3A676CF6.459D1BCA@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, I just need to do a bit of venting here, not something I am apt to do normally. Just practicing for the Kennedy Center audition and working on my TRILLS! ARGGHHHHH! Kodaly, Hary Janos, mvt IV, from reh 3, glisses up to high Ab and then trill on the Ab. I will do what I have to do for the audition and I will jump through the hoops necessary, but I WILL NOT LIKE IT! Whew. End of vent. Aside from that, what the heck is with that excerpt. I have only had to prepare it once before for Cape Town (anybody else) and at least that was on tape. Every where else just asks starting at the G-C glisses a few bars later. I will ask the question but I am pretty sure of the answer: Does anybody have any tricks for this one? ...didn't think so. Back to the horn. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:21:42 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Vienna Trombone Quartet Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010118150255.00b5d220@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:55 PM 1/18/01 -0500, Thomas Smee blasted the following out into the ether: Sorry that my messages suddenly started going out in HTML format. Hopefully, I have now changed back to plain text. All I said in the message was that I saw the Vienna Trombone Quartet CDs at: http://www.tapmusic.com/ They're well worth getting. Tom Thanks, Tom. Seems to be OK now. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:50:07 -0600 From: "Dean McCarty" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) Message-ID: <005c01c081a1$02859300$fa0960cc@compaqcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good one that is still in print is John LaBarbara's arrangement of "Wave." Buddy Rich recorded this and it is very nice. It is available through Sierra Music. Another one is Ray Brown's "Tomas Gato." I believe that it was written for George Roberts. It is one of my favorites for the instrument, but you better have a good trumpet section. It is available from Walrus Pub. Both are great! Buy them both and then decide. Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area ----- Original Message ----- From: Galen Zinn To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 2:22 PM Subject: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > I would appreciate any big band arrangements you could suggest featuring > bass trombone as a solo instrument that are currently available for > purchase. Also, where are they available? > > Thanks, > > Galen Zinn > E-mail: zinger@musician.org > > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:14:04 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: venting Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Peter- I hate that one too, although in the first part, the trill is high C to D. I think it's Jeff Reynolds who suggests (on the Summitt Excerpt CD) that you think of the trill as Bb DOWN to Ab - it might help on a purely psycological level. Jim Scott On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur wrote: > > Hello list, > > I just need to do a bit of venting here, not something I am apt to do > normally. > > Just practicing for the Kennedy Center audition and working on my > TRILLS! ARGGHHHHH! Kodaly, Hary Janos, mvt IV, from reh 3, glisses up to > high Ab and then trill on the Ab. I will do what I have to do for the > audition and I will jump through the hoops necessary, but I WILL NOT > LIKE IT! > > Whew. End of vent. Aside from that, what the heck is with that excerpt. > I have only had to prepare it once before for Cape Town (anybody else) > and at least that was on tape. Every where else just asks starting at > the G-C glisses a few bars later. I will ask the question but I am > pretty sure of the answer: Does anybody have any tricks for this one? > ...didn't think so. > > Back to the horn. > > Peter Collins > Bass Trombone > Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:59:12 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: cacking and venting Message-ID: <3A678350.89D90E7D@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, I heard from another lister regarding my last post about the Kodaly trills and it seems that my frustration is all in vain. Apparently I didn't listen close enough to the hotline list for the Kennedy Center audition, it does start at the normal spot with the G-C glisses. I think it was just worded oddly or something. I will keep practicing them though, I will be a better person for it. If nothing else I can impress all the violists with my higher speed trills. Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:13:54 EST From: FOpal@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Jazz/Fun Concerto? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ce.f797c25.2798e0c2_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline I was wondering if anyone knew of a Fun but yet still challenging concerto for trombone and orchestra? ĘIm thinking along the lines of something unique for the competition... like jazz or something. ĘI need about 15minutes worth to audition for a high school concerto competition and I would really like to do something EVERYONE (orchestra and audience) could enjoy. ĘAny suggestions? Thanx! Frank Opal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:10:26 EST From: MasterCoda@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Houston Symphony/Bonetown Message-ID: <71.a07a291.2798ee02@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I was just wondering if anyone is going to attend (or play in) either the Houston Symphony this coming Saturday the 20th, or at Bonetown (in Houston) this coming Sunday Feburary 3rd. If so, please contact me directly. Many thanks, Peter Strenkowski ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:43:38 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: Re: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: <007e01c081ca$02ec6e80$2ab54a3f@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to step in here. you wrote: > Sorry this is late... > > I heard list member Dave Tall play one a couple of years ago in practice. > The mouthpiece gave the most beautiful, resonant, completely gorgeous sound > in the universe. However, listening to what came out the bell, you could > not hear a single articulation. I don't know if he ever solved that > problem, but it was VERY noticeable. Noticeable to the point that I would > not have played it in public before figuring it out. I'm guessing you heard him on an off day. I know Dave, have played along side him, & heard him do some fantastic things. While I'm not a fan of the big sounding Edwards instruments as a rule, I've heard him make them sing with any mouthpiece. > Andy > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:55:34 -0600 From: "Joseph Sellmansberger" To: "trombone list" Subject: re: alto review Message-ID: <006b01c081c3$4d307100$95945d0c@vogmudet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yeah, I'm impressed with Weril products. I sell their ("beats" Jupiter to DEATH) 4-valve euphonium and 3/4-size BBb and CC 4-valve tubas. The euphoniums and tubas are STRONGLY patterned after Yamaha, sound great, play in tune, and are almost half the price of Ya'. The alto trombone has satified one of my went-off-to-college-to-be-a-trombone-major customers, and their (picky) teacher (a friend of mine who is a former C.S.O. regular sub and Baltimore Symphony trombonist). Incidentally, Weril's double-rotor in-line bass is also C-H-E-A-P to buy, and would satify anyone who is willing to settle for one of those "oversize" bells and no better than - say - "Holton-esque" quality. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:24 PM Subject: alto review Back in December I received a new alto trombone that I purchased from Steve Ferguson in California. It is by the Brazilian company Weril and it is a copy of the old Conn altos with tuning in the slide. It is a .500 bore and has a gold brass bell. It only cost $800. with hard case and mouthpiece so I thought I«d give it a try. This is a nice horn! I«ve been playing it with the orchestra this week on Beethoven 9 and more than a few people have commented on it«s pretty sound. The intonation is good but it takes some getting used to just like any other alto out there. The construction seems good. Mine had one small laquer blem on the hand slide crook but Steve told me about it before hand so no surprise there. If you«ve been wanting to play alto but didn«t want to shell out $1500 minimum then talk to Steve and he will fix you up. By the way, he play tests these horns before he sends them out. When I got mine it was lubed and ready to go. He also told me that Ralph Sauer visited his shop and tried out these horns and liked them very much. My reason for writing this letter is to get more of you interested in the alto trombone. I know that my students here in Mexico can only afford one horn but now the alto is a possibility as well and there is so much good music for it. Thanks for reading, take care. David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:49:31 -0500 From: "Andrew Elms" To: "Tom Izzo" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NO NO NO!!! I wasn't commenting on Dave's playing, Just the mouthpiece. He sounded fabulous. It was just that particular mouthpiece (one of about four or five) that sounded poor. I was with him and Christan Griego, the Edwards representative attempting to tweak some things. The mouthpiece just buried the articulations for both him and Christan when they played it. One cool thing was that the Monette was so resonant you could feel the sound in the walls if you were touching them when it was being played. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Tom Izzo [mailto:jeanvaljean@ntsource.com] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 10:44 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum.; elmsandr@msu.edu Subject: Re: Monette Mouthpieces I have to step in here. you wrote: > Sorry this is late... > > I heard list member Dave Tall play one a couple of years ago in practice. > The mouthpiece gave the most beautiful, resonant, completely gorgeous sound > in the universe. However, listening to what came out the bell, you could > not hear a single articulation. I don't know if he ever solved that > problem, but it was VERY noticeable. Noticeable to the point that I would > not have played it in public before figuring it out. I'm guessing you heard him on an off day. I know Dave, have played along side him, & heard him do some fantastic things. While I'm not a fan of the big sounding Edwards instruments as a rule, I've heard him make them sing with any mouthpiece. > Andy > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:51:53 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: Re: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: <008401c081cb$2c1fce40$2ab54a3f@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:01 PM Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces > Andrew: > > I have not played Monette mouthpieces but have often worked with > players that do. I would totally agree. My perception is that > articulation is obfuscated with this set up. I base my opinion on > hearing a few players on several different instruments. > I used to think that, but one player, blows that theory away. If you ever have a chance to hear Phil Brink, do it. Incredible control on a Monette 1, whether he's playing Bass Trb, Tenor Trb, even Alto Trb, marvelous control of pitch, sound, volume, articulation, & that mp looks like it's bigger than my Tuba. Just like instruments, it's not the mp, it's not the slide, it's not even the shoes :-), it's the player, folks. Whatever mp or set up you use, use the one that's best for YOU. No one else plays like you do, no one else will react to size, or plasting, the way you do on your own setup. Try others, yes, but find what works for you, & practice. Tom ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:27:24 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Diehl" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: "Diehl, Jeffrey B." Subject: FRIDAY NIGHT AT THE NAVAL ACADEMY Message-ID: <014201c081c7$c0dc1e20$55380941@gambrills1.md.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again to the list! . . . Back after a long absence. I'd like to invite everyone in the vicinity of Annapolis, MD, to attend our concert (The U.S. Naval Academy Band) at 8P.M., Friday evening, January 19. Our soloist for the evening is our newest trombonist, Twig Sargent (Petty Officer Sargent, don't you love it?), who is performing the Defaye "Deux Danses". Twig is from Texas, and earned his Bachelors Degree at Texas Tech University. This will be Twig's third attempt at getting this piece before an audience. The first try was last August at an outdoor concert. Concert cancelled due to rain - Strike One. Recently he was in Lubbock, TX, to play on a recital at Texas Tech; no accompanist was available, so he had to play only his unaccompanied piece - Strike Two. Let's see what tomorrow brings . . . Twig and I were in Texas for another reason, to play at the American observance of Don Lucas' wedding. Don is an old school friend of my wife's (He played at our wedding 7 1/2 years ago.), and was Twig's teacher and mentor, also. For the wedding, we both participated in a Trombone Choir. One of the trombonists was Earl Needham from Clovis, NM. I think he posts to the list about once every 15 minutes. :-) A real gentleman and a lover of all things pertaining to trombone. Christan Griego was there also, among many more. It was great to see a bunch of old friends and make so many new acquaintances. If you are still reading, you are very patient. Maybe my next post, due about 2005, will be shorter. Jeff Diehl Bass Trombone The U.S. Naval Academy Band ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:18:32 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 12:22 PM -0800 1/18/01, Galen Zinn wrote: I would appreciate any big band arrangements you could suggest featuring bass trombone as a solo instrument that are currently available for purchase. Also, where are they available? TAP Music (http://www.tapmusic.com) has published several pieces for bass trombone and big band which were written for George Roberts. Written by Larry McVey, they were recorded by George with the Fort Vancouver High School Jazz Band in 1968 (long out of print, the LP was called "Let George Do It" - see my bass trombone discography at http://www.yeodoug.com/btrbrec.html) but the charts are still available. They don't require any improv and range from ballad to medium swing. They are a bit "dated" in style but are attractive and I've used them many times with high school and college jazz bands. The titles are: Ballad for Bass Trombone Rifferendum 94 Serenade for Bass Trombone Some Other Time Contact TAP Music at: http://www.tapmusic.com tapmusic@tapmusic.com Tap Music Sales 1992 Hunter Ave. Newton IA, 50208 USA Phone 515-792-0352 Fax 515-792-1361 Also, there is a new concerto for bass trombone and big band written for Jennifer Wharton (who is sometimes on this list) - by Dave Eshelman, called the "Wharton Concerto" and Jennifer polayed it on her senior recital at New England Conservatory last year. Details at http://www.jazzgarden.com/charts.html -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:52:35 -0600 From: Jay Heltzer To: sarapete@sympatico.ca Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: cacking and venting Message-ID: <3A67C812.BB5BF21F@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I heard from another lister regarding my last post about the Kodaly > trills and it seems that my frustration is all in vain. Apparently I > didn't listen close enough to the hotline list for the Kennedy Center > audition, it does start at the normal spot with the G-C glisses. I think > it was just worded oddly or something. > > I will keep practicing them though, I will be a better person for it. If > nothing else I can impress all the violists with my higher speed trills. > > Peter Collins > Bass Trombone > Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra Well, if not that trill, what about the one in Otello in Act 1: 7 after C-D? Damn axial-flow long throw! Jay Heltzer ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:04:33 -0500 From: "cobalt321" To: Subject: FW: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another good one is Toshiko Akiyoshi's "Ain't Gonna Ask No More". It's a slow, almost "dirty" blues. I believe that it's out of print (perhaps a lister can confirm this). If this is the case, I do have a copy if you are interested e-mail me off list. The piece is on the Tales of a Courtesan album. Phil Teele (sp?) was the soloist on contrabass trombone. Fritz Graf Instructor of Low Brasses MSD of Wayne Twp. Marion Co. Indianapolis, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]O n Behalf Of Galen Zinn Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:22 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) I would appreciate any big band arrangements you could suggest featuring bass trombone as a solo instrument that are currently available for purchase. Also, where are they available? Thanks, Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:48:40 -0600 From: "Dean McCarty" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) Message-ID: <003201c081db$7b5a24a0$1a0960cc@compaqcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes this one has been out of print for a long time... Please let's not start the copyright thread again... I have this also, but I really don't thing Toshiko would like me copying it for everyone. Check around for this one... it may be on a shelf somewhere. I found my copy at RBC Music in San Antonio about 6 years ago. When I got it they had two other copies on the shelf... this shouldn't be a high seller, give them a try. Call information. Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area ----- Original Message ----- From: cobalt321 To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:04 PM Subject: FW: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band (Have you any?) > > > Another good one is Toshiko Akiyoshi's "Ain't > Gonna Ask No More". It's a slow, almost > "dirty" blues. I believe that it's out of > print (perhaps a lister can confirm this). If > this is the case, I do have a copy if you are > interested e-mail me off list. The piece is > on the Tales of a Courtesan album. Phil Teele > (sp?) was the soloist on contrabass trombone. > > Fritz Graf > Instructor of Low Brasses > MSD of Wayne Twp. Marion Co. > Indianapolis, Indiana > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]O > n Behalf Of Galen Zinn > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 3:22 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Bass Trombone Solos w/ Big Band > (Have you any?) > > I would appreciate any big band arrangements > you could suggest featuring > bass trombone as a solo instrument that are > currently available for > purchase. Also, where are they available? > > Thanks, > > Galen Zinn > E-mail: zinger@musician.org > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:15:04 -0700 From: Dave Tall To: elmsandr@msu.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Monette Mouthpieces Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010118231504.00a34200@mail.sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:49 PM 01/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: >NO NO NO!!! I wasn't commenting on Dave's playing, Just the mouthpiece. He >sounded fabulous. It was just that particular mouthpiece (one of about four >or five) that sounded poor. I was with him and Christan Griego, the Edwards >representative attempting to tweak some things. The mouthpiece just buried >the articulations for both him and Christan when they played it. One cool >thing was that the Monette was so resonant you could feel the sound in the >walls if you were touching them when it was being played. Yes, I remember this quite well. I didn't play that mouthpiece for quite a while after that, mostly because of the articulation issue. Since that day, I've switched slides and leadpipe (which was part of the point of that session, now that I think of it ;) ). The Monette seems to work better with the setup I'm using now than it did with what I was playing on then. In fact, the one I was trying then, the BT1, seemed quite good, but there was "just something" that wasn't right. I acquired a BT1L this week, and so far I like it better than the BT1. The sound seems a little rounder and richer, and it barks even less at high dynamics. Of course, things will change a bit as I get more used to it. And, as always, these seem to follow the "no free lunch" rule: they sound great, but they're a bit more work to play. They are larger in the cup and throat than a 60, have a completely different backbore, and don't have the squirreliness that the 60 does in the upper register. It took me a while to get used to the rim profile on the Monette. I had been using a Stork 1 for a couple of years before that. Before the Stork, I had used a 60 rim for over 15 years, and it took a while to get used to the Stork rim, as well. The Stork is thicker, the inner diameter is a bit smaller, and the profile is different than either the 60 or the Monette. I don't know that I'm heading towards a point here, but I just returned from rehearsal (for Barber School for Scandal and Tchaikovsky 6); the trombone section did a half hour of touchup after rehearsal, and all this is fresh in my mind. For the first two rehearsals, I switched back and forth between the two Monettes, and also tried to get some time in the hall alone. I'm going to use the BT1L for the show. Andy and Tom, thank you both for the kind words. Your checks are in the mail ;) Has anyone tried Monette's tenor mouthpieces? My current success with the bass mouthpiece has piqued my curiousity. A big problem with them is that Monette won't send them out for trial, and only a few stores in the country carry them, so it's hard to give them a trial. I had an opportunity to try one at an ITF, and then a kindly list member lent me one for an unreasonably long period of time. Dave Tall Bass Trombonist New Mexico Symphony ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:48:15 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Long positions Message-ID: <00ec01c081ec$2efbe920$2ab54a3f@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan, That article noted: >"When his body was taken to the Rest Home for Musicians a month after his death, >the procession became a state ceremony." A MONTH after his death? Yikes! I hope he was frozen! Disease for sure. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: R Miller To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Long positions > Its the dreaded Verdi fever! Is there an antidote? > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/SHOWBIZ/Arts/01/14/verdi.anniversary/index.html > > R Miller ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:36:54 EST From: JazVermont@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Jazz Camp announces its 17th Year: Trombonists Save $ Message-ID: <8.f1d63cc.27998ee6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jazz Vermont, the 5 1/2 day Band Camp for Grownups announces its 17th year. This year we will be at the premier resort in Vermont, the 200 room Killington Grand Hotel. Join one of our 6 bands and wail the week away with like minded musicians. Rehearsals morning and night, sectionals late afternoon. improv classes after lunch. Featuring guest artist, trombonist Tony Lada (Berklee prof and Buddy Rich Alum); saxophonist, Jerry Bergonzi (N.E. Conservatory prof and Dave Brubeck Alum, author of 5 books on jazz improv); trumpet, Mark Van Cleave (formerly with the Smithsonian Jazz Orch and Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey Circus). First time trombonists can attend at a reduced price, $1099.00* (Reg. 1499.00). Check it out at: Jazz VErmont www.jazzcamp.com jazvermont@aol.com * shared room (pvt. room would be an additional charge). ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:23:38 -0500 From: David Burch To: FOpal@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Jazz/Fun Concerto? Message-ID: <3A683FDA.7B5807CE@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about ragtime? The TromboneConcerto No. 2 of John Glenesk Mortimer has been recorded by Pia Bucher on her 'Fascination' album (info at Hickey's web site). It's not silly slapstick fun, but just lighter music. I like it a lot. Her timing is 12'44". --Dave Burch FOpal@aol.com wrote: > I was wondering if anyone knew of a Fun but yet still challenging > concerto > for trombone and orchestra? Im thinking along the lines of something > unique > for the competition... like jazz or something. I need about 15minutes > worth > to audition for a high school concerto competition and I would really > like to > do something EVERYONE (orchestra and audience) could enjoy. Any > suggestions? > Thanx! > > Frank Opal ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:01:08 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: "ksdowdy" Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Electronic music (was Re: Mikes) Message-ID: <200101191406.JAA29305@hall.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:31 PM 1/18/01 -0600, you wrote: >Sam wrote: >> >> Electronic sounds, however, are MIND driven. Sure they can to some >> extent be humanized, but the almost complete failure of synthesizers to >> produce anything but background music is the most eloquent defense of this >> idea that life has given us over the past 30 years or so. >> >Have to disagree here to some extent. Electronic music is for the mind, and >is intended to influence the emotions using alteration of the "natural" >sound and harmonic patterns. ==================== A well stated thought. That is EXACTLY what serious electronic musicians have attempted to do, and before them equally serious 12 tone composers...believing that the useful end of what had reigned for centuries as acoustic tonality was in sight, they struck out in new directions, looking for new ways to move people with sound. First the 12 tone movement, then later the "serious" electronic composers, and still later the synth-pop and fusion-jazz movements...all exploring ways to deal w/melody and harmony (and rhythm, too, to a certain extent)...with SOUND... in ways that were not bounded by the strictures put upon them by the natural harmonic series and the invention of the tempered scale. And, to my ears and in my experience, they all failed. While Stockhausen and Schoenberg, Boulez and Schaeffer, (and yes, Eno and Bowie and a number of the fusion and free jazz musicians as well) were making a great deal of music that was NOT completely hooked into the harmonic series, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Gil Evans, Bob Brookmeyer, John Coltrane,...almost the entire jazz, blues, rock, pop, country, South American, Caribbean, Indian, Arabic and African so-called "popular" movements, really... were creating idioms that WERE based on the harmonic series, on WHAT THE EAR HEARD INSTEAD OF WHAT THE MIND THOUGHT. And although I don't dispute that thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people have been moved in diverse ways by various "experimental" musics, I maintain that BILLIONS of people who have not found these musics interesting in any way HAVE been moved by Louis's blue notes (just a melodic expression of the 7th and 11th partials in the harmonic series, really), by Basie's swing, by Bob Marley's crie de coeur, by Duke Ellington's and Gil Evans's harmonic and melodic elaborations on what players like Louis and Bird found in an improvised, melodic sense, by singers like Billie Holiday, Amalia Rodrigues, Frank Sinatra and Nusrat Fateh Ali Kahn, by the whole Caribbean and Afro/Cuban movement...BILLIONS of people on dance floors and in clubs and concert halls, reacting in a physical and emotional sense to music. Billions. With the exception of those that used amplification only to heighten the physical impact and possibilities of their acoustic instruments...Jimi Hendrix, most of the rockers and blues artists, the jazz players who just want to get LOUDER in order to get the attention of larger and/or progressively deafer audiences (audiences coarsened in their capabilities to listen by the daily barrage of electronic amplification)...most of the "experimental" electronic artists have produced a music that only moves those who are intellectually committed to BEING moved by the style. (This is a syndrome roughly equivalent to a pastor preaching to his choir or trombonists playing what I sometimes refer to as "stupid trombone tricks" to the delight of the severely limited audience of trombonists who are impressed w/such abilities.) Understand me...I am not saying that experimental movements are "wrong", or that people like Ken who enjoy them are somewhat deluded. I have my own quirks, my own preferences in this regard, and the usefulness of ALL attempts to make music on a serious level is a primary rule in my life. Nevertheless, I see the history of 20th Century music...ALL of it, taken as a totality, all the so called "popular" movements like jazz, all the more commonly accepted academic compositional techniques and musical approaches, all the "experiments" (you could profitably consider every note Duke Ellington wrote or John Coltrane played to be an "experiment"...just SUCCESSFUL experiments, mostly), all of the idioms of all of the cultures, from Cuba to Pakistan to New Orleans to Cambridge and Paris and Berlin, as a progressive validation of the natural ear, of HEARD music rather than THOUGHT music. In the end, THAT'S what going to be heard, going to be listened to by masses of people... McCartney's lovely melodies, not Eno's synthesized sounds. Stravinsky's earlier, relatively tonal work, not his later 12 tone attempts. Bartok, not Schoenberg. Brookmeyer, not Cecil Taylor. ================== >Some of the early collaborations between Brian >Eno and David Bowie are examples of the best of synth music. BTW, Bowie, >and possibly Eno, will be remembered by the music world far longer than any >currently living trombonist. ================= Time will tell... I doubt this, personally. In fact, I can't remember a single piece of music by either of those gentleman that ever moved me to more than gentle curiosity ==================== Also, the early Gary Numan experiments with >electronic music are still first class examples of the idiom. And one can't >forget Kraftwerk (probably known by more people than most trombonists). In >my opinion, for what it is worth, synthetic music became stale background >music with the proliferation of the digital keyboards. The old analog >setups such as the ARP Axxe and Pro-soloist, or the wonderful Prophet 5, had >a personality all their own. In fact, the sound would change on the Prophet >5 as temperature would increase or decrease, making controlling the output >more of a challenge than most wind instruments. However, this gave the >device a uniqueness of sound not matched by the current blast and blat >school of trombonists. I would readily give up every horn that I own for a >functional Prophet 5 and enough spare chips to keep it running for the rest >of my life!!! =============== I got involved w/electronic music for a while, and I understand where you're coming from. I personally returned to the infinite possibilities of acoustic sound after a few years, finding electronics ultimately unsatisfying. To each his own...and if you DO get rid of your horns, give me a call; I might be interested. Whatcha got ??? ================================= > >On the other hand, if you were to say that the synthesizer has no place in >the Jazz idiom, I would probably agree with you wholeheartedly. The way the >music is intended to affect you, and the methodology and science used is >much different. And each is beautiful in its own way. But, saying that a >synthesizer is useful only for background music is kind of like saying that >the trombone is only useful for backing up the strings in the orchestra. I >doubt either of us would agree to that one! > >KSD ======================= Except in the hands of masters, I'm not sure the trombone IS useful for much more than background use...that's why that is its primary function in 95% of the music for which it's written. And in the hands of a master, synthesizer music can be foreground music as well. However, its function has evolved in much the same way as the trombone...playing background to human driven instruments that are more easily made expressive...and it has evolved that way through audience driven, market driven natural selection. "THIS sounds good; Ill buy it." "This doesn't; I won't" These facts do not stop me from pursuing the expressive limits of the trombone, nor do I believe they should stop electronic players from doing so in their fields...I am just observing what I have seen and heard so far, and to ME, personally, any five notes of Jack Teagarden's, J.J.Johnson's or Jimmy Knepper's,...let alone Bird, Bechet, Heifetz, Casals and the thousands of other great acoustic players... are worth any five hours of electronic music I have ever heard. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:08:52 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE:Was Larsson concertino - now judging preparation Message-ID: <587F49FABBEDD411A68F00A0C9EA313B5FC7E3@DASMTHKHN561.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Earl's comment about "sizzle" suggested to me a superficial approach might be occurring by some judges, maybe due to a lack of preparation or familiarity with the pieces. If so, then a student and his/her teacher might over-prepare (some might say over-interpret) a piece and miss the target with the judges. I have a question for list members who have been judges. How do you prepare -really? Do you feel an obligation to study the pieces selected for competition? If you do, how do you go about it? Do you often fall short? Do you listen to multiple recordings, do you read on the composer to help determine intent of the piece? Do you rely on your experience? In real life, judges must be very busy before and afterward. Feel free to speak in the third person! (Although I would avoid the Royal "we"), and feel free to rat on a friend. :-). Thanks Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Earl Needham [mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 4:02 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Larsson concertino (interpretation) Too many "judges" at auditions of various types don't seem to know MUSIC, so they instead look for sizzle... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:31:13 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Monette trombones and mouthpieces Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Monette is a complicated subject, one which pops up on the list from time to time, and one about which I have some history, having worked with him many years ago, and having effectively ended my working relationship with him because of concerns I had over how/why/what he was doing. Bottom line from where I sit (personal opinion based on my own experience and years of observation, your results may vary): Dave Monette is not about making instruments and mouthpieces. He and his instruments are a way of life. Each person will need to decide for himself if the Monette way is genius or jive. His bass trombone mouthpieces are enormous, they have very large throats. Some people can obviously work well with them (Dave Tall is a fine player and a friend, and obviously it works for him), but I know many - MANY - people who have bought them and they now have the world's most expensive paperweight. Monette did make trombones at one point, in the mid-80's - they were straight large bore tenors. Norman Bolter has one, I believe there were a half dozen or so made. He also made some bass trombone bells (5 I think), I have one, along with some other pieces of a bass trombone which he made (gooseneck, slide bow, leadpipe). I do not play that horn anymore (Norman Bolter doesn't play his Monette anymore, either), and haven't for about 10 years. But Monette apparently does not make trombones or trombone parts any more. Whether he will do so again in the future is something I don't know. Read the Monette low brass mouthpiece FAQ yourself at: http://monette.net/lbmp.html On his website, you'll get a clear picture of the corporate philosophy, way of thinking, attitude, etc. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:42:16 EST From: TboneGib@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Interpretation (Larsson and others) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having played the Larsson 22 times in four weeks while on tour in 1995, I may be able to shed some light on its' interpretation. I did indeed treat the first movement as a cadenza, and tried to do things a bit differently each night. This was great fun for me, the conductor, and the band. Afterwards, we would discuss over a malted beverage what worked and what didn't. Interestingly, we all agreed that the further we strayed from the notated rhythms,articulations,phrasing,dynamics,etc, the less it seemed to "work". It took a lot for me to admit this to myself. I am always one for taking big risks to try to find the soul of the music. But it was an eye-opening experience and taught me a lot about SUBTLETY. Much expression can be achieved working within the written framework of a piece. Beauty is in the details! I made a vow that before I put MY spin on a piece, I would exhaust all avenues to discover the composer's intent. I performed it, then, from within Larsson's perspective....not mine. I learned a greater respect for the piece (and all subsequent music I have approached with that mind-set.) I also found a greater respect for myself as a conveyor, portrayer, and translator of a composer's ideal. So......to make a long post moreso, I don't suggest going too far in the first movement until you've sat down with a metronome and played the music EXACTLY as written. You may find that you're treating it as a cadenza for other than musical reasons (read: technical limitations on your part). This is not a valid reason for usurping the composer's intent....sorry.The composer has done his best to notate what was in his head. You should become very familiar with his ideal before venturing off into yours. Then, any personal "spin" you wish to add will make more musical sense and hold truer to the nature of the piece at large. One last thing: the slow movement should not get too slow. Check his metronome markings! Most players I hear drag this to the point where phrases no longer relate to one another as the composer intended. The energy level is drastically different at an adagio tempo. If that is the performer's intent, so be it. But is it the composer's intent? If not, what reasons are you willing to give for departing from the notation? Great arguments could be given to justify nearly everything you want to do with the music.....but "I dunno" ain't one of em! If you've given it some thought and found a compelling, musical reason to be playing it as you are, great! Otherwise, we don't want to hear it. Know what I mean? Tom Gibson Brass Dept. Coordinator Georgia State University TboneGib@aol.com (404) 651-1740 trombonelessons.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:04:25 EST From: ROSEBONE@aol.com To: sabutin@mindspring.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Electronic music (was Re: Mikes) Message-ID: <6.10f5f6bc.2799b179@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO, We are a point in the development of the synth that it is still very much an unfinished experimental instrument(s), with tremendous resources for producing sounds, yet with an human/machine interface that does not readily allow for the intuitive/unconscious approach to creating music. And since it (usually) uses a keyboard interface (chosen originally for its availability and low cost, connected to an instrument that was based on parts which were lying around a radio station) for the triggering of sounds, any one with modest keyboards skills can get in the act; to master any instrument so that it is an extension of your mind is the work of a lifetime, yet any synthesist is dealiing with an instrument who's working lifetime is often measured in months or at the most several years. In talking about the music that may be produced, emotionally compelling music that speaks to a large number of people across cultural and age barriers, I believe that better methods of controlling the instrument are mandatory, and must take into account the way the human body and brain works to create music. I've recently started the process of learning the Steiner/Akai Electronic Valve Instrument (after being involved on and off with keyboard-based synths for 25 years); changing the interface changes the approach. I realize that even with the knowledge and physical skills that will transfer from trombone and euphonium playing, that it will be a 3-5 year process to become "adequate", much less have mastery. The real-time control of *all* of the elements which go into a performance that grabs people is not amenable to the *conscious* control of the instrument. And until there is an interface which is intuitive, responsive, and allows for the performer to interprete all of the changing elements to respond to the feel of the hall, the feel of the audience, and the feel of the music in the moment, with aural and physical feedback from the instrument, I feel we will be battling with this question. Bill Rose McNeese State University Lake Charles, LA rosebone@aol.com << Also, the early Gary Numan experiments with >electronic music are still first class examples of the idiom. And one can't >forget Kraftwerk (probably known by more people than most trombonists). In >my opinion, for what it is worth, synthetic music became stale background >music with the proliferation of the digital keyboards. The old analog >setups such as the ARP Axxe and Pro-soloist, or the wonderful Prophet 5, had >a personality all their own. In fact, the sound would change on the Prophet >5 as temperature would increase or decrease, making controlling the output >more of a challenge than most wind instruments. However, this gave the >device a uniqueness of sound not matched by the current blast and blat >school of trombonists. I would readily give up every horn that I own for a >functional Prophet 5 and enough spare chips to keep it running for the rest >of my life!!! =============== I got involved w/electronic music for a while, and I understand where you're coming from. I personally returned to the infinite possibilities of acoustic sound after a few years, finding electronics ultimately unsatisfying. To each his own...and if you DO get rid of your horns, give me a call; I might be interested. Whatcha got ??? ================================= > >On the other hand, if you were to say that the synthesizer has no place in >the Jazz idiom, I would probably agree with you wholeheartedly. The way the >music is intended to affect you, and the methodology and science used is >much different. And each is beautiful in its own way. But, saying that a >synthesizer is useful only for background music is kind of like saying that >the trombone is only useful for backing up the strings in the orchestra. I >doubt either of us would agree to that one! > >KSD ======================= Except in the hands of masters, I'm not sure the trombone IS useful for much more than background use...that's why that is its primary function in 95% of the music for which it's written. And in the hands of a master, synthesizer music can be foreground music as well. However, its function has evolved in much the same way as the trombone...playing background to human driven instruments that are more easily made expressive...and it has evolved that way through audience driven, market driven natural selection. "THIS sounds good; Ill buy it." "This doesn't; I won't" These facts do not stop me from pursuing the expressive limits of the trombone, nor do I believe they should stop electronic players from doing so in their fields...I am just observing what I have seen and heard so far, and to ME, personally, any five notes of Jack Teagarden's, J.J.Johnson's or Jimmy Knepper's,...let alone Bird, Bechet, Heifetz, Casals and the thousands of other great acoustic players... are worth any five hours of electronic music I have ever heard. >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:20:03 -0500 (EST) From: chitrbn@webtv.net (John McGrath) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu (trombone and related issues forum) Subject: King 2b trombones for sale Message-ID: <19284-3A687743-1355@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) A friend of mine (trombone player Julie Rubin) has two king 2b liberty model trombones for sale--asking $900 each. call him at 561-477-0189 for details. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:33:52 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Interpretation (Larsson and others) Message-ID: <00a901c0823d$fdb7f000$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fantastic post Tom, I learned this years ago when working up the Spillman. When I finally discarded all the crap I was superimposing on the piece and went back to the ink, the piece came alive. Then, with the "ink-foundation" securely in place, I was able to embellish it with a few of my ideas and produce a musically attractive, convincing reading. The word "few" is the key here. I have my teacher's good musical sense to thank for beating these ideas into me! I have heard many players so overload a piece with "interpretation" or whatever that the thing would just capsize and sink right there in front of their colleagues at recital time. Drone-drone-drone...Where's the beat?...It this thing ever gonna end? Ouch! These same players are the ones who could not perform the ink if they had a gun to their head. Moral: Start at the start, nail down the basics, move on from there. Corollary: Never stop really listening to what's coming out of the bell. Works for me. In Music, ---Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:42 AM Subject: Interpretation (Larsson and others) > Having played the Larsson 22 times in four weeks while on tour in 1995, I may > be able to shed some light on its' interpretation. I did indeed treat the > first movement as a cadenza, and tried to do things a bit differently each > night. This was great fun for me, the conductor, and the band. Afterwards, we > would discuss over a malted beverage what worked and what didn't. > Interestingly, we all agreed that the further we strayed from the notated > rhythms,articulations,phrasing,dynamics,etc, the less it seemed to "work". It > took a lot for me to admit this to myself. I am always one for taking big > risks to try to find the soul of the music. But it was an eye-opening > experience and taught me a lot about SUBTLETY. Much expression can be > achieved working within the written framework of a piece. Beauty is in the > details! > I made a vow that before I put MY spin on a piece, I would exhaust all > avenues to discover the composer's intent. I performed it, then, from within > Larsson's perspective....not mine. I learned a greater respect for the piece > (and all subsequent music I have approached with that mind-set.) I also found > a greater respect for myself as a conveyor, portrayer, and translator of a > composer's ideal. So......to make a long post moreso, I don't suggest going > too far in the first movement until you've sat down with a metronome and > played the music EXACTLY as written. You may find that you're treating it as > a cadenza for other than musical reasons (read: technical limitations on your > part). This is not a valid reason for usurping the composer's > intent....sorry.The composer has done his best to notate what was in his > head. You should become very familiar with his ideal before venturing off > into yours. Then, any personal "spin" you wish to add will make more musical > sense and hold truer to the nature of the piece at large. One last thing: the > slow movement should not get too slow. Check his metronome markings! Most > players I hear drag this to the point where phrases no longer relate to one > another as the composer intended. The energy level is drastically different > at an adagio tempo. If that is the performer's intent, so be it. But is it > the composer's intent? If not, what reasons are you willing to give for > departing from the notation? Great arguments could be given to justify nearly > everything you want to do with the music.....but "I dunno" ain't one of em! > If you've given it some thought and found a compelling, musical reason to be > playing it as you are, great! Otherwise, we don't want to hear it. Know what > I mean? > > Tom Gibson > Brass Dept. Coordinator > Georgia State University > TboneGib@aol.com > (404) 651-1740 > trombonelessons.com > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:50:13 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: What a Wonderful Trombone World Message-ID: <000c01c08240$481aaf00$06511a3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08216.5DA10920" Dear Listers: I MUST echo the praises of others on the list about the Vienna Trombone Quartet--I just received this CD from Tap Music Sales today. and it is EXCELLENT. I'd keep this trombone ensemble disk and trash all of the others. If you don't have it, it's well worth the money--BUY THIS DISK. The ensemble is excellent and the style is exquisite. If this doesn't inspire you do achieve the ultimate in musical expression, then I don't know what will. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:53:54 -0500 From: "Darren Jukes" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: monette Message-ID: <005d01c08240$cab12a20$408cd1d8@b1gsur79> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C08216.E1240720" List, I've been checking out Monette's website and reading the posts with interest. I just have a few questions/comments. I've never tried one of his mps but I am curious. I play a really shoddy Bach 4G. But as one of my teachers put it "at least it does everything equally bad!"Ę After reading most of his guide I'm wondering if applying most of what he talks about to any set up would be of great benefit? Playing with good posture/alignment and little pivot seems to me to be a very good approach no matter what you play. Tuning/playing with a pitch centre that occurs naturally on your horn is probably a good idea all the time. And in defense of the price issue - assuming you could test this product like anything else, paying that price for one very well made mouthpiece (if it works for you) is about the same as buying half a dozen poorly made mps that don't work. And with all due respect to Trudel, Alessi, Yeo etc..most of us are not in a position to attract manufacturers to develop a mp for us, at great expense to the manufacturer I would assume. I also assume these partnerships do occur under a wide variety of agreements and policies. Mouthpiece experimentation is just one of those neccessary evils that we all must go through. A group of people with some of the finest paperweight collections anywhere. Sittin' on the fence Darren Jukes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:05:42 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: I need - hmmm - I believe they're called "charts" Message-ID: <3A6881F6.F540C8F6@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For our community band recital this coming August, I'd like to put together an ad hoc big band to play maybe two numbers. ---Note: I've never before done any such thing.--- I'm trying to line up personnel and, here's the rub, find music. The commercial swing arrangements I've come up with seem to use 4 trumpets, 4 saxes, and 4 'bones. I probably won't have that many saxes or 'bones, but, looking at my talent pool to draw from, I'd like to include clarinets and have the base line carried by a tuba. This group will include strong players that could take solos, but also players that should probably play softly on a middle harmony part. An optional vocal strain might be nice. You know, like a torch singer, not the kind you get from yelling at musicians. Where could I find such arrangements? Am I looking in the wrong places? Is such music even available commercially? Anybody got anything laying around that would serve? Should I pick out the songs I'd like to do and pay a young jazz composition major at NTSU (just down the road) to do the arrangements for me? Copyright issues (non-profit organization, unpaid players, no charge for attending recital)? Thanks for all thoughts and advice. Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor trombone ljshaddo@gte.net ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1927 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:06:29 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'sarapete@sympatico.ca'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: venting Message-ID: <01C08207.E02B7420.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, Your right...it's really not a trick, but I do have a suggestion (or two). Trills began to become usable for me when I began to think of them as two real notes alternating in rapid succession. I would never practice trills any faster than I could play the two notes with a beautiful tone. Little by little the speed would increase. Making a great sound the first priority seemed to help keep the air moving much more easily. The sensation for me, in comparison to when the trills weren't so good, is that my lips seem to be using the air stream as a sort of lubricant. I know that sounds a little strange. (I almost never try to describe the sensation of playing to anyone. More often than not, it just makes things more confusing.) My lips move so easily from one note to the other if I'm moving the air enough. I think practicing trills on the mouthpiece really helps get the point (about trills being two real notes) across very vividly. A