TROMBONE-L Digest 1924 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) by "The Schirms" 2) RE: Mute Holder by Craig Parmerlee 3) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by Craig Parmerlee 4) OTJ Classifieds Update - 1/15/2001 by Chris Waage 5) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by sabutin@mindspring.com 6) Bass saxes by Dave Molter 7) Fwd: AVflash 7.03a by Earl Needham 8) Trigger horns by Dave Molter 9) Stuck tuning slide by Steve Wilfong 10) Protec bass case by Dave Molter 11) Re: Stuck tuning slide by Douglas Yeo 12) Mouthpieces for sale by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 13) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands (and orchestras) by Douglas Yeo 14) Re: Newer isn't always better by "Neal Schermerhorn" 15) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by "Neal Schermerhorn" 16) IAJE Trombone highlights by "Jeff Albert" 17) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by "Steve Beck" 18) Earl McIntyre by Randy Campora 19) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 20) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by JennWhaa@aol.com 21) Clampit by Earl Needham 22) Student horn prices by Earl Needham 23) Blat O Blat O Blat by Harykoz@aol.com 24) Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands by "Rod Ellard" 25) Re: Student horn prices by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 26) Re: Blat O Blat O Blat by "Jeff Albert" 27) Sleepy Hollow by "Thomas Smee" 28) Re: Mouthpieces for sale by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 29) Re: Sleepy Hollow by "Edward Solomon" 30) Improv. Camp by lewismm@songs.sce.com 31) Re: Clampit by "Gary D. Maxwell" 32) Unsolicited testimonial by "Rod Ellard" 33) Re: Unsolicited testimonial by "Scott Furness" 34) Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands by Gabriel Langfur 35) Re: Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands by Chris Waage 36) RE: Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands by Thomas Cox 37) Re: Improv. Camp by Candice & Eric Swanson 38) Re: Long positions by Walter Barrett 39) Re: Blat O Blat O Blat by sabutin@mindspring.com 40) Re: Earl McIntyre by sabutin@mindspring.com 41) Re: Blat O Blat O Blat by "Jeff Albert" 42) Riverwalk by "Hal Starkey" 43) Blat O Blat O Blat by Harykoz@aol.com 44) Re: Clampit by "Tom Izzo" 45) painting trombones by "Arthur Koolen" 46) update painting trombones by "Arthur Koolen" 47) Re: Clampit by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 48) slide trumpet = slide sopran trombone by "Arthur Koolen" 49) Re: painting trombones by Candice & Eric Swanson 50) RE: painting trombones by "Arthur Koolen" 51) Re: slide trumpet = slide sopran trombone by "Tom Izzo" 52) Re: painting trombones by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 53) RE: painting trombones by "Andrew Elms" 54) Re: painting trombones by "Gary D. Maxwell" 55) Re: Clampit by "Roger Carmichael" 56) Re: painting trombones by "Rod Ellard" 57) Re: Blat O Blat O Blat by sabutin@mindspring.com 58) Re: Blat O Blat O Blat by Harykoz@aol.com 59) FROM THE LIST MONITOR: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat by Listmonitor Trombone-L ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:50:13 -0500 From: "The Schirms" To: Message-ID: <000e01c07ef1$b45bb120$2e087218@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C07EC7.CB3AE480" SET TROMBONE-L MAIL DIGEST ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:41:37 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Mute Holder Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010114233706.00badce8@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Have you tried that little maneuver in a full length dress? It isn't as easy as it sounds. :) There is a fellow on eBay selling a little spike thingy that clips on the shaft of the music stand. It has three spikes that point upward. You place your mutes upside down over the spikes. Seems like that should work OK. Another trick is to bring a black towel to set the mutes on. If this is strategically placed, the mute shouldn't make much noise if you do drop it. Good luck, Craig (must lose 30 pounds before bikini season) Parmerlee At 08:33 PM 1/14/2001 -0500, Andrew Elms wrote: This mute clip thingy doesn't fit on all music stands. Make sure before hand. Optionally, try holding it in the pit of your knee or possibly your armpit. The knee pit thing works pretty well. I find that I don't drop it as much from there as I do putting it between my knees. Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of BassBonist@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 8:18 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Mute Holder Maria writes: << Hello all... Anyone know where I can go about getting a clip for a music stand for say a... straight mute.. either that or recommendations for real quick and very often mute changes.. >> There is a plastic gizmo that clips to music stands that will hold a mute, and, I think it's made under either the LaVoz or Humes & Berg names. Any retailer who is a dealer for H&B or Rico Reeds (LaVoz) ought to be able to get 'em for you. Matt ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:25:23 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115091202.00b1e620@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think the short answer is that triggers weren't very evolved by that era. The mechanisms, acoustic properties, and ergonomic design have improved a great deal since the times you described. I think the question to ask is if those folks were doing it all over again today, would they be using triggers? A trigger simply isn't necessary for parts that stay mainly above middle C. For lead and soling parts, I like the freedom and lightness of a simple straight horn, and I think this will be the majority preference for a very long time to come. But to not use a trigger horn on the lower parts, especially 3rd and 4th, is unwise IMHO. You can play the music better with the trigger, and that is the only thing that matters as far as I'm concerned. At the distinct risk of opening up the whole bore size can of worms again, some people may prefer straight horns even on the lower parts because the *TYPICAL* trigger horn is too ponderous for that genre. Even a symphony-inspired instrument like Bach 42B can make a decent big band sound if the player is careful to articulate and selects a shallow mouthpiece with a bright sound. Moreover, there are lots of horns with triggers that are perfectly at home in a big band setting. Just my opinion, Craig At 11:36 PM 1/14/2001 -0500, Jac Grimes wrote: Hi Gang, We were doing some sight reading tonight in Big Band and ran across a couple licks that were quick and required considerable slide movement, (when I look at them and figure out the alternate positions to use that may help), Dan turns to Bob and says, "it helps to have a trigger". My response was" yeah, you know all the greats, Dorsey, Teagarden, Miller all those guys had triggers." Well when you look at photos of the big bands of the 40's, there's usually 4 bones and no f-attachments. There was a segment on "Sunday Morning" this morning about "Girl bands of the WW2 era." No triggers. In fact even in Nelson Riddle's orchestra in the 50's recording with Sinatra, you only saw one trigger horn and if I'm not mistaken that was a bass. Why is that? And if that's so then why is it so important to have an F-attachment today? Especially in big band. -Jac ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:46:09 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update - 1/15/2001 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 8:45 a.m. CST on Jaunary 15, 2001 with 20 new ads. OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Also-we will shortly be adding a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) to the OTJ Classifieds. If you have any questions you would like to see included, please e-mail them to me at chris@trombone.org. Chris -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:54:10 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: HJGrimes@triad.rr.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <200101151456.JAA14904@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:36 PM 1/14/01 -0500, you wrote: > > Hi Gang, > Ê > We were doing some sight reading tonight in Big Band and ran across a couple > licks that were quick and required considerable slide movement, (when I look > at them and figure out the alternate positions to use thatÊmay help), Dan > turns to Bob and says, "it helps to have a trigger". My response was" yeah, > you know all the greats, Dorsey, Teagarden, Miller all those guys had > triggers."Ê Well when you look at photos of the big bands of the 40's, > there's usually 4 bones and no f-attachments. There was a segment on "Sunday > Morning" this morning about "Girl bands of the WW2 era." No triggers. In fact > even in Nelson Riddle's orchestra in the 50's recording with Sinatra, you > only saw one trigger horn and if I'm not mistaken that was a bass. Why is > that? And if that's so then why is it so important to haveÊan > F-attachmentÊtoday? Especially in big band. > Ê > -Jac > ================================== Hi Jac... You ask "...why is it so important to haveÊan F-attachmentÊtoday? Especially in big band." Answer: It's NOT important. In fact, it can be something of a drawback. In most of the big band music written since the idea "big band" was born...since say Fletcher Henderson in the '20s...w/the exception of bass trombone parts, there aren't two phrases out of a thousand the execution of which would be substantially helped by a trigger; almost all of THEM are in the range between E below the staff and 2cd space C; they're usually either doubled by other trombones and/or baritone sax or they're written in octaves, and if there's a little faking going on getting around down there in fast passages it doesn't matter AT ALL to the impact of the music most of the time anyway. Further, most of the parts that ARE very difficult down there were written by people who didn't have their orchestrational act together anyway, so screw 'em. (As nicely as possible, of course.) It is certainly a convenience to have a trigger when playing low tenor parts, and it equally certainly helps to tune up low Bs (which are further out on the slide than any other 7th position note and are the single most commonly out of tune note known to man on ANY instrument, I think), but other than that, a combination of good slide technique, really knowing how to use 6th and 7th positions to play 4th line F and 3rd space E (and 5th, 6th + 7th positions to play the Bb, A and Ab above them), and the ability to fake certain parts of certain lines w/out sounding terrible (or feeling and acting guilty) will substitute for having a trigger quite nicely almost all of the time in these big band idioms. Make no mistake...I am not being "anti trigger" here, but I have only played trwo horns smaller than .547 bore where using the Fattachment produced an acceptable sound to my ears (my own Shires /Greenhoe open wrap .525 and an old Conn .525/.547 slide tuning 14H); and I have NEVER played a horn that sounded as good or played as well w/an F attachment as it did without one. Again, my Shires comes closest for me, but its resonance, clarity of sound, ease of response and projection, and its ability to move around easily and smoothly in the middle and upper regiisters are all better as a straight horn than w/the trigger. (Plus for most players and most big band music it's slightly too big anyway. Horns w/bores of .509 and smaller are generally the way to go in big bands unless you've really got your act together as far as range, endurance aand the ability to color the sound are concerned.) So...you compromise 98% of a horn's capabilities to some extent in order to be able to navigate a few rapid passages around low C that no one can hear and probably were written by a bad musician in the first place? I don't think so. When you have extensive exposed moving parts written for tenor down there, fine...but how often does that happen in big bands? Having a trigger is currently fashionable and makes sense if someone is only able to afford one horn and needs to play orchestral styles as well, but with the almost universal availability of convertible horns (and the quite inexpensive alternative of altering most older horns into convertible systems as well), having a trigger horn in a big band is not only just not necessary, it's an UNNECESSARY drawback most of the time. Further...most of the music written for big band was written w/the sound of a smaller tenor in mind ANYWAY, and smaller tenors...Conn 3Bs, Bach 16s, etc...almost UNIVERSALLY sound terrible when an F attchment is slapped on them. An F attachment really tends to ruin their strengths while adding almost nothing except the possiblility of playing cranky sounding low C, B, F +Es in close positions. Why do this? As I've said so often before on this list...get the right tool for the job, and then learn how to use it. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:00:11 -0500 From: Dave Molter To: trombone-L Subject: Bass saxes Message-ID: <3A63107B.6851D5C9@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sent this info to Doug Yeo but should have posted it to the list: Check out the Riverwalk jazz site: www.riverwalk.org. Home of the Matt Cullum Jazz Band, it has great info to complement the Public Radio International series, Riverwalk, which airs nationally. Sometime in fall, the series focused on bass sax, and I believe it was played by Steve Giordano. You can get to Steve's bio on the site by checking the guest roster. The series features the type of early jazz that was the staple of Ken Burns' first four segments of "Jazz." It's all live music and much of it is available on CDs that can be bought the site. The site also has a schedule of upcoming shows and a list of the stations that carry it nationally. In March, Jack Teagarden will be the subject of two segments. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:09:00 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: AVflash 7.03a Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010115080821.00bece10@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Perhaps some relief for those of us travelling with our trombones! Go CONTINENTAL!!! Earl BIG BAGS ON BIG BIRDS BECOME BIG DEAL: Continental Airlines recently spent $15 million enlarging its overhead bins on 187 aircraft -- only to find its competitive advantage nullified at Washington's Dulles International Airport by a physical barrier at the security checkpoints. United Airlines and other carriers servicing Dulles voted to install steel moldings over X-ray machines to restrict the size of carry-on baggage allowed into secure areas and, therefore, onto their planes. A U.S. District judge ruled last week that United and the other airlines had violated antitrust laws. Under those laws any damages awarded to Continental will be tripled. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:16:43 -0500 From: Dave Molter To: trombone-L , hjgrimes@triad.rr.com Subject: Trigger horns Message-ID: <3A63145A.BF87634F@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jac Grimes wrote: >>>"In fact even in Nelson Riddle's orchestra in the 50's recording with Sinatra, you only saw one trigger horn and if I'm not mistaken that was a bass. Why is that? And if that's so then why is it so important to have an F-attachment today? Especially in big band."<<< This should provoke a lot of discussion. I'll bet Sabutin can give us all we need. Not being an expert and not having studied the history of the bass trombone I can give only my opinion. I would venture that no trigger was used in "those days" because the charts didn't often require a note below 7th position "E") except for pedals. Feel free to chastise me frequently if I'm wrong: I haven't played enough big band stuff to know. I saw Doug Elliott play with the Artie Shaw band last year in a section of three: Ken Wenzell on lead, Doug on 2nd, and a woman whose last name I have forgotten on 3rd (first name was Britta). All played small bore horns without F attachments. Britta played an ancient 2B, as did Ken. Doug had a Schmelzer. The section sounded great. I don't know when the single-valve bass came into widespread use, but I'm almost certain that when it did, the bore at first was seldom larger than .547. I know there are exceptions, but I also know that the King 5B (made in the '80s) I had last year was marketed when it was new as a bass bone. As for why a trigger is necessary in a big band today, I'll go back again to the charts. Once the F attachment became common, arrangers started writing for it. Once they started writing for it, more players began playing it -- it's self-perpetuating. As for double- or single-valve being "better," George Roberts has done quite well with a single-valve bass, but a dual-independent bass opens up a whole lot of alternate position possibilities that can be put to good use in today's jazz. And it elimnates the need to retune and have the slide almost fall off to get a low B. That's my opinion. fire away. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:22:09 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Wilfong To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Stuck tuning slide Message-ID: <20010115152209.8629.qmail@web208.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello everyone, This is a little of subject for the trombone list, but you guys have always been helpful before and I was hoping that someone out there could help me with this one. I was looking around the pawn shops this weekend and came upon a great deal -- a used 3/4 BBb tuba in great shape -- almost no dents and all the valves work freely and it blows quite nicely. I only payed $125.00 for it -- so I considered it a steal. I managed to get everything working nicely, except for one tuning slide that just won't budge. I'm willing to take it to my local repairman, but I thought I would check the list first for any suggestions. Any ideas? Thanks, Steve Freelance RTP, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:21:28 -0500 From: Dave Molter To: trombone-L Subject: Protec bass case Message-ID: <3A631577.CF1F1B95@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Gamble asked about the Protec bass case: I used the Protec bass case and it is huge because they make it to fit virtually any model bass trombone. However, since a dual Thayer Bach also is huge, the case might be just right for this horn. The case has a large, moveable pad at the tuning slide end, and the slide is held securely in the lid, unlike the smaller Protec cases. Because it's so big, it's almost as heavy as a normal wooden case, though (and much heavier than its large tenor brothers -- although not as heavy as the Bach coffin). Two things I didn't like about the case -- 1: the mouthpiece box inside has a top shelf that has two holes for mouthpieces but the holes aren't big enough to accept a bass shank. The compartment is also very deep and you have to wrangle to get to anything under the top shelf. 2: the outside pocket is not as large as the one on the Protec tenor case, and thus a UMI stand barely fits in it. I don't do a lot of heavy traveling with the Protec cases, so they are fine for me, although I find the stock wooden case that my King Duo Gravis came it is lighter than the Protec bass case. If you're in a situation where you fly or travel by bus and can't keep an eye on the horn, I don't know if I'd trust the Protec case. Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:37:02 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: wilfo001@yahoo.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Stuck tuning slide Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 7:22 AM -0800 1/15/01, Steve Wilfong wrote: I managed to get everything working nicely, except for one tuning slide that just won't budge. I'm willing to take it to my local repairman, but I thought I would check the list first for any suggestions. Yes, take it to the experts. But... you could first take a small (very small) wooden hammer (very small) and GENTLY GENTLY GENTLY do some SMALL (only lift the hammer about 3/8 inch) tap... tap... tap... around the tuning slide. The vibrations often will loosen up the slide. But the hammer has to be very small, and the tapping has to be very gentle (it should leave no visible marks, no denting on the tubing - and the hammer must be wood, not metal). GENTLE GENTLE GENTLE. TINY LITTLE TAP... TAP... TAP... -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:13:41 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Mouthpieces for sale Message-ID: <005801c07f0e$21e1f4e0$45511a3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01C07EE4.37930880" Dear list members, I have a number of mouthpieces for sale. All of them are in very good condition. I will list the mouthpiece and shank sizes below. Doug Elliot--100 rim, D cup, D3+ shank for small bore tenor--$30 Denis Wick 4 1/2 AL--large shank, gold plated--$40. Blessing 6 1/2 AL--small shank, silver plated--$25. Bach 6 1/2 AL--small shank, silver plated, slight damage at the end of shank but still playable--$20 Stork 5S--large shank, silver plated, slight damage at the end of shank--$25. Bach 5GB--small shank, silver plated $25. Schilke 50--small shank, silver plated $30 Schilke 51--large shank, silver plated $30 Schilke 51C4 -- 1 large shank and 2 small shank models, silver plated $30 each Schilke 52E2-- 1 Large shank and 1 small shank model, silver plated $30 each All sales are final--I have been as accurate as possible in the description of these mouthpieces. Nothing wrong with them, but I'd like to get a custom-made mouthpiece for my alto trombone and I need to sell some or all of these. The prices that I am asking are FAR below what a new mouthpiece costs these days. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:25:32 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands (and orchestras) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 9:54 AM -0500 1/15/01, sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: You ask "...why is it so important to have an F-attachment today? Especially in big band." Answer: It's NOT important. In fact, it can be something of a drawback. While Jac and Sam addressed this question in regards to playing in big bands and jazz ensembles, it's true for orchestra playing as well. The current fascination for double valve bass trombones presents somewhat of a drawback for players who really only need either no valve (for over 90% of orchestral repertoire) or only one valve (for up to 98% of orchestral repertoire). Two valves just isn't necessary for most repertoire and adds unneeded weight and complications to the horn. I played for many years on a single valve bass trombone (see my ITA Journal of many years ago, "In Defense of the Single Valve Bass Trombone" some of which is quoted in my FAQ on bass trombone valve setups at http://www.yeodoug.com/valves.html). When I designed the YBL622 bass trombone with Yamaha, I insisted that the 2nd valve be removable so you could have a single valve horn - and that's what they did. In-line double valve bass trombones cause a particular problem, especially with Thayer valves, because they are large enough to basically eliminate any substantial gooseneck to the horn AND they cause the player to have the valves stuck in his neck which for many players changes the angle the horn can be placed on the embouchure. I've had many students with inline horns who cannot get the mouthpiece to come straight on to their face - it's just a physical thing with that much mass on the horn at a critical area. And it isn't good. Dependent valve horns don't have this problem, especially with traditional rotary valves, because the valve is completely off the neck. Like Sam said - get the right tool for the job, and then learn how to use it. Fact is that many players use 2 in line valves as a crutch (please, flame not: yes, I know all the arguments about alternate positions, etc - but in the end they ring hollow to me - most problems in any repertoire can be solved with either no valve, single valve or dependent valves without the compromises the inline horn requires - it just may take a little more work and imagination). Your results may vary, but Sam's words are well taken for all of us, even those who spend our lives in symphony orchestras. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:13:51 -0500 From: "Neal Schermerhorn" To: "Eric Burger" , "Paul D. Kemp Jr." , Subject: Re: Newer isn't always better Message-ID: <005401c07f0f$d75ce400$642996d1@hppav> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I taught elementary school for a while recently. Believe me, it is easy to teach rhythm, and teachers who don't are either lazy, incompetent or unaware that it's important. I had second graders completing 4/4 measures. They also took paired eighths, quarter notes and quarter rests, arranged them in a 4-beat pattern and another student clapped it. At least in MA, most schools have a pretty detailed curriculum which the teacher is required to follow. The kids have to be able to demonstrate X Y and Z, and we get observed to ensure it's happening. It isn't so much to weed out poor teachers as it is to keep everyone on their toes and working for excellence. My theory is, those early grades, when music is absolutely fun for both genders, is when the elements of music must be driven home, in a way that they'll bite, of course. Then they'll be prepared for instrumental study and advanced vocal performance study in the future. Neal Schermerhorn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Burger" To: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." ; "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Newer isn't always better My next point has to do with the way beginning students are taught in band. When it comes to rhythm and time, most are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS. It seems that the main objective is to get instruments into the hands of the kids just as quickly as possible. It seemed to me that for at least the first 6 weeks of band class, it would be time much better spent learning the basic rudiments of music AWAY FROM THE INSTRUMENT. SO RIGHT. But I think there is even a better way. I had taught K-8 for years, and used the Mary Ellen Richards charts (based on Kodaly) for grades 1-4, like I had had in my youth. When the students came to band, they could read notation, count rhythms, and had a such as easy go of it, that I could teach technique and tone... I wonder if anyone still uses these? Eric Burger ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:26:03 -0500 From: "Neal Schermerhorn" To: "Jac Grimes" , "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <005501c07f0f$e0b26ac0$642996d1@hppav> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >We were doing some sight reading tonight in Big Band and ran across a couple licks that were quick and required >considerable slide movement, (when I look at them and figure out the alternate positions to use that may help), Dan turns to >Bob and says, "it helps to have a trigger". My response was" yeah, you know all the greats, Dorsey, Teagarden, Miller all >those guys had triggers." Well when you look at photos of the big bands of the 40's, there's usually 4 bones and no f- >attachments. There was a segment on "Sunday Morning" this morning about "Girl bands of the WW2 era." No triggers. In >fact even in Nelson Riddle's orchestra in the 50's recording with Sinatra, you only saw one trigger horn and if I'm not >mistaken that was a bass. Why is that? And if that's so then why is it so important to have an F-attachment today? >Especially in big band. My answer - it's not! I have never needed a trigger in big band, and the only times I'd ever use one is an occassional lower-than-E note in a 3rd part or a poorly-arranged fast passage around the "break". One exercise I use at the rehearsal big band I play with is this - play a chart in the LONGEST possible position. Do this on a 2nd or 3rd part, and not on something where an error on your part is going to tick everyone off. (If it's a really serious group, don't do it at all, probably.) This runs counter to your natural tendency to play everything in the shortest possible position. Doing this on a regular basis (1) drills the alternate positions (2) helps to build excellent breath support due to the extra tubing and (3) it's a lot of fun. BTW the 3 tenor players in the big band use small to medium bore tenors with no trigger, the bass trombonist normally brings his dual-trigger bass. A few subs play on triggers - especially high school students who are studying with a classically-oriented teacher. They all come in with 42BOs and 88Hs. In the community orchestra I conduct, the two trombonists I currently have on the roster play trigger horns, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts they can't play a top-of-the-staff Bb in T3 without thinking about it. Neal Schermerhorn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jac Grimes" To: "Trombone List" Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 11:36 PM Subject: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Hi Gang, We were doing some sight reading tonight in Big Band and ran across a couple licks that were quick and required considerable slide movement, (when I look at them and figure out the alternate positions to use that may help), Dan turns to Bob and says, "it helps to have a trigger". My response was" yeah, you know all the greats, Dorsey, Teagarden, Miller all those guys had triggers." Well when you look at photos of the big bands of the 40's, there's usually 4 bones and no f-attachments. There was a segment on "Sunday Morning" this morning about "Girl bands of the WW2 era." No triggers. In fact even in Nelson Riddle's orchestra in the 50's recording with Sinatra, you only saw one trigger horn and if I'm not mistaken that was a bass. Why is that? And if that's so then why is it so important to have an F-attachment today? Especially in big band. -Jac ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:27:19 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: IAJE Trombone highlights Message-ID: <02d801c07f10$08c66d40$20cc1442@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just returned from New York, and the IAJE Conference, and heard some great music while I was there, including some great trombonists. There was an Al Grey Tribute that featured Slide Hampton and World of Trombones, as well as a 25 piece trombone choir conducted by Dennis Wilson. Slide Hampton sounded especially good, as did Steve Davis. Conrad Herwig with the Jim Snidero Sextet playing the music of Joe Henderson was incredible. My only dislike, was that I heard a lot of trombone players put the mic halfway up to their tuning slide, and get that type of sound. I understand that the tempos are much easier to deal with that way, but you lose all the individuality of sound. It concerns me that we are all sounding like same toned machines. That worry was dissipated however when I heard the Smithsonian Jazz Masterworks Orchestra. Sam Burtis was featured on J.J. Johnson's "Say When", and sounded great. He stepped back from the mic, and let HIS sound be heard, and kept up with the tempo fine, without the microphone crutch. It restored my faith in trombonists. Another enjoyable aspect of that concert was the absolutely marvelous bass trombone sound of Earl McIntyre. It was completely musical. Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed the Conference. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:51:07 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <02b901c07eae$c93cfb00$1e320923@cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why f - attachments?? Here we go again. I think Craig hit the nail on the head: " I think the short answer is that triggers weren't very evolved by that era. The mechanisms, acoustic properties, and ergonomic design have improved a great deal since the times you described." Why didn't people use airplanes in the seventeen hundreds? Duh, they didn't have them. Look at a photo of the Eastman school around 1950. Percentage of f-attachments - about zero. Look today - nearly 100%. Look at the jazz, swing players of 1920's playing large bore horns, zero. Look today - less than those using small bore straight horns, but substantially greater than zero. For what ever reason, greater volume, preferred sound - flexibility - availability - thinking out of the box -people use f-attachment horns in all genre' of bone playing - and they do this successfully. If it sounds good, it is good. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:09:52 -0500 From: Randy Campora To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Earl McIntyre Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010115120803.0098f660@mail.telephonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >That worry was dissipated however when I heard the Smithsonian Jazz >Masterworks Orchestra. Sam Burtis was featured on J.J. Johnson's "Say >When", and sounded great. He stepped back from the mic, and let HIS sound >be heard, and kept up with the tempo fine, without the microphone crutch. >It restored my faith in trombonists. Another enjoyable aspect of that >concert was the absolutely marvelous bass trombone sound of Earl McIntyre. >It was completely musical. Sabutin, can you tell us a little about what Earl is up to these days? I have never met him but I remember him very fondly from my Thad Jones Mel Lewis LPs that I played until they were near death, and his mini-solo on the tune "Thank You". -Randy Campora ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra Peabody Conservatory of Music campora@peabody.jhu.edu 410-461-1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:15:45 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: becks@pilot.msu.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <43.f51ddab.27948a41@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back in the 40's and 50's the straight horn was used to get the "High" ones. Also a standard student instrument straight B flat at that time cost $125.00. Accounting for inflation that would put the student horn in the $1,.250.00 catagory. Average wages for papa then was $60.00 per week. Not many papas could afford to buy the kid a trigger horn. So when the college was done and one went pro.. it took a while to get the dough to buy a trigger instrument. I remember the largest instrument dealer had only four straight bones in inventory back in 1948. This was in a large metropolitan area. He didn't have a trigger horn then.. Had k40 pianos tho. $$$$$ is probably why. Those straight high pressure tenors could really sing tho. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:27:42 EST From: JennWhaa@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am really enjoying this thread because from personal experience and from teaching, I have found that triggers can be a help and a hindrance. The only horn I have ever owned, Beast, is just way too big to be played in a big band but I use what I have. What I try to do is copy the positions of the other players when in unison to make blending a bit easier. This seems to work well enough. But if I am on my own part, I tend to lean on my triggers a lot. As a result, my 6, 7 positions suffer. I have students who are afraid of the trigger and ones who won't play anything past fifth position and it is like pulling teeth to break them of that habit. I have friends who use a straight horn for bass parts and play induced (false, fake whatever you call 'em) tones for notes below E. In the end, it IS whatever sounds good. I forget who was mentioning playing parts in a rehearsal band in all the alternate positions but that is one of my favorite exercises that can also be done on the triggers. Ab = T1 in 6th is my favorite. After all that, I am reminded by a friend to just "Shutup and play." I think I will do that. Jennifer Wharton Aspiring musician and professional basket weaver. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:46:18 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Clampit Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010115104542.00afb510@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:07 PM 1/14/01 -0800, Gary D. Maxwell blasted the following out into the ether: It has yet to arrive, but I just purchased a brand new invention called a Clampit, from Dalton Music in Norfolk, Nebraska. Isn't that something that cows get? Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:01:58 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Student horn prices Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010115110036.00b16ef0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:15 PM 1/15/01 -0500, BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com blasted the following out into the ether: Back in the 40's and 50's the straight horn was used to get the "High" ones. Also a standard student instrument straight B flat at that time cost $125.00. Accounting for inflation that would put the student horn in the $1,.250.00 catagory. And that's not too far off today. Student horns list for anywhere from $800US to $1000US or so. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:04:53 EST From: Harykoz@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/15/01 10:29:22 AM Central Standard Time, jalbert@bellsouth.net writes: << My only dislike, was that I heard a lot of trombone players put the mic halfway up to their tuning slide, and get that type of sound. I understand that the tempos are much easier to deal with that way, but you lose all the individuality of sound. It concerns me that we are all sounding like same toned machines. >> Here we go again! The microphone thing! The mike is only a tool. I would rather here a guy using a mike than hear a guy playing and sounding like a drum and bugle horn player. Now, Sabutan is going to chime in with usual authoritative aplomb and tell us all how trombones never sound like trombones when amplified. The thing is, when playing in a larger venue and in a jazz soloist setting, the trombone cannot be heard acoustically. (Unless one totally abandons playing anything at the quieter volume levels.) I find it comical to hear the guys who abandon the use of amplification and all you hear is "Blat O Blat O Blat." Hary ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:08:57 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <006e01c07f1e$3bc84160$527bfea9@Ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And what Duke said next: if it sounds bad, it is bad. A batch of contemporary .547 woofers isn't going to sound right in a big band. Which is why you do not often see them in professional big bands. I sat through a Mark Lawrence masterclass on Saturday. All the tenors had .547 dream horns (whether they could fill them or not). It was followed by a 5 trombones + rhythm section "jazz" band. All the tenors save one (the sub on the 4th part) played straight tenors. Why? Rod ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:13:58 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Student horn prices Message-ID: <001901c07f1e$f1506c60$c8511a3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's why I keep telling my students that there are plenty of good USED horns out there. That much money for a student line instrument is ridiculous. Shoot, a used Bach 36 or 42 can be had on Ebay for that price. Besides, if they are hung up on brand new, then you can get a BRAND NEW 42BO or 36BO from the Brasswind for about $1400. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Needham" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 1:01 PM Subject: Student horn prices > At 12:15 PM 1/15/01 -0500, BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com blasted the following out > into the ether: > >Back in the 40's and 50's the straight horn was used to get the "High" ones. > > > >Also a standard student instrument straight B flat at that time cost > >$125.00. Accounting for inflation that would put the student horn in the > >$1,.250.00 catagory. > > And that's not too far off today. Student horns list for anywhere > from $800US to $1000US or so. > > Earl > > > Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG > Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) > > Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, > you breathe...) > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:54:17 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: <033601c07f24$90333880$20cc1442@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with you Hary. I am not a fan of "O Blat O Blat OBLat" either. I agree that the microphone is a tool, and I use one extensively in my playing, even in intimate jazz settings. I think the sound that comes from placing the mic well into the bell and playing softly, is a very useful and pretty sound. Likewise, I really enjoy the sound that comes together about a foot out of the bell. My previous post was not condemning the use of microphones, it only expressed my concern that over a period of a couple of days, EVERY trombone soloist I heard had the mic deep in his bell. That is all. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Blat O Blat O Blat > In a message dated 1/15/01 10:29:22 AM Central Standard Time, > jalbert@bellsouth.net writes: > > << My only dislike, was that I heard a lot of trombone players put the mic > halfway up to their tuning slide, and get that type of sound. I understand > that the tempos are much easier to deal with that way, but you lose all the > individuality of sound. It concerns me that we are all sounding like same > toned machines. >> > > Here we go again! The microphone thing! The mike is only a tool. I would > rather here a guy using a mike than hear a guy playing and sounding like a > drum and bugle horn player. Now, Sabutan is going to chime in with usual > authoritative aplomb and tell us all how trombones never sound like trombones > when amplified. > > The thing is, when playing in a larger venue and in a jazz soloist setting, > the trombone cannot be heard acoustically. (Unless one totally abandons > playing anything at the quieter volume levels.) > > I find it comical to hear the guys who abandon the use of amplification and > all you hear is "Blat O Blat O Blat." > > Hary > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:05:09 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Sleepy Hollow Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_85DED1FD.BADBB979" Thanks to whoever recommended the soundtrack CD for the movie, Sleepy Hollow. The music by Danny Elfman makes for nice listening but, particulary as a fan of the contrabass trombone, I loved it. There are lots of lovely 'ripe' contrabass trombone sounds on it. Well played. I gather that the orchestra was made up of London players. Any idea who did it? Perhaps Dick Tyack? Tom Smee Attachment converted: Bach:TEXT.htm (TEXT/MSIE) (0004BA07) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:43:30 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mouthpieces for sale Message-ID: <001f01c07f2b$70b671a0$b978273f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C07F01.86E62B20" Dear listers, I am reposting the list of mouthpieces that I have for sale, deleting the ones that have been spoken for. Thank all of you for your speedy response on these moutpieces. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul D. Kemp Jr. To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:13 AM Subject: Mouthpieces for sale Dear list members, I have a number of mouthpieces for sale. All of them are in very good condition. I will list the mouthpiece and shank sizes below. Denis Wick 4 1/2 AL--large shank, gold plated--$40. Blessing 6 1/2 AL--small shank, silver plated--$25. Bach 6 1/2 AL--small shank, silver plated, slight damage at the end of shank but still playable--$20Ê Schilke 51C4--2 small shank models, silver plated $30 each Schilke 52E2-- 1 Large shankÊmodel, silver plated $30 All sales are final--I have been as accurate as possible in the description of these mouthpieces. Nothing wrong with them, but I'd like to get a custom-made mouthpiece for my alto trombone and I need to sell some or all of these. The prices that I am asking are FAR below what a new mouthpiece costs these days. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:57:42 -0500 From: "Edward Solomon" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sleepy Hollow Message-ID: <000c01c07f2d$6c84c3f0$5b261d09@mkm.can.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to whoever recommended the soundtrack CD for the movie, Sleepy Hollow. The music by Danny Elfman makes for nice listening but, particulary as a fan of the contrabass trombone, I loved it. There are lots of lovely 'ripe' contrabass trombone sounds on it. Well played. I gather that the orchestra was made up of London players. Any idea who did it? Perhaps Dick Tyack? Tom Smee That's assuming it actually was a contrabass trombone. I don't think that Dick Tyack does session work in London (he is too busy with the Opera House and teaching and doesn't do session stuff anyway, I think). It was possibly more likely someone like Dave Stewart, Ron Bryans, or Peter Harvey. __________________________________________ Edward Solomon (Bass Trombone) British Trombone Society Webmaster mailto:webmaster@trombone-society.org.uk Visit "The Trombonist Online" - the online magazine of the British Trombone Society http://www.trombone-society.org.uk __________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:00:14 -0800 From: lewismm@songs.sce.com To: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Improv. Camp Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'd like to correspond with someone who has recently attended a summer jazz improvisation camp, such as is run by the Aebersold people, for example. Looking for firsthand info re: an opportunity suitable for both an adult amateur trombonist and his 15 yr. old trumpeter son. thanks, Mark Lewis Oceanside, CA. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:29:10 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Clampit Message-ID: <000801c07f31$d26a97e0$6d525d3f@garymaxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 07:07 PM 1/14/01 -0800, Gary D. Maxwell blasted the following out into > the ether: > > > >It has yet to arrive, but I just purchased a brand new invention called a > >Clampit, from Dalton Music in Norfolk, Nebraska. > > ======================================== And then "Earl Needham", re-blasted forth: > Isn't that something that cows get? ======================================== And with gastrol perfunctory, I sally forth with: Yeah, kinda like "spitvalve" desease. Gary Maxwell - home for MLK Day - should be practicing. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:31:10 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Unsolicited testimonial Message-ID: <000d01c07f32$1c243080$7de294d1@ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List: I purchased a vintage used horn from list member Steve Ferguson recently and just picked it up this weekend. The horn was shipped promptly, was well packed and was EXACTLY as described (very important when buying over the web). As well, the horn played exactly as Steve described (try asking Woodwind/Brasswind "yeah, but how does it play?") Have a look at: http://members.aol.com/sftrombone/index.htm Rod Ellard ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:48:07 From: "Scott Furness" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Unsolicited testimonial Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Folks, I'd like to second Rod's Testimonial. Steve Ferguson was a pleasure to work with, and he plays everything before it leaves his place. Again, you'll never get service like that from the Brasswind. BTW, his prices are also competitive. I got a Weril euphonium (a great horn) from him. I had to sell it as a result of aggravating CTS, not because the horn was a dud. I see on his site that he will soon carry Shires trombones...Interesting! Scott _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <20010115205641.71212.qmail@web10304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Neal Schermerhorn wrote: > One exercise I use at the rehearsal big band I play > with is this - play a > chart in the LONGEST possible position. Do this on a > 2nd or 3rd part, and > not on something where an error on your part is > going to tick everyone off. > (If it's a really serious group, don't do it at all, > probably.) This runs > counter to your natural tendency to play everything > in the shortest possible > position. Doing this on a regular basis (1) drills > the alternate positions > (2) helps to build excellent breath support due to > the extra tubing and (3) > it's a lot of fun. A student of mine came up with a similar idea on his own in the process of my encouragement to use more of his options in longer positions. He came back the next week having learned an entire Bordogni/Rochut etude (and not an easy one at all - one of the nice ones near the beginning of Book 2) IN FOURTH POSITION AND BEYOND. ON A STRAIGHT HORN. Needless to say, I was impressed. If I was grading him he would have earned As for the rest of his life, just for that one great idea. He was already an advanced player, but in just that one week his intonation - already good - improved dramatically all over the horn. His flexibility and smooth legato, which needed work, also improved dramatically. AND he gave me something to practice as well! If I may plug him a little, he's a member of a band called The Humming. www.thehumming.com He plays trombone, saxophones, flute, keyboards, and does most of the lead singing for the band. Good stuff - well-written, interesting pop played by a group that also take gigs doing jazz standards, so they can definitely play their instruments. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:00:26 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" In college, I played with the Liberty Summer Band, and we'd have contests to see who could play an entire piece without using first position. Of course, those of us with double-rotor basses usually won ;-) Chris --- Neal Schermerhorn wrote: One exercise I use at the rehearsal big band I play with is this - play a chart in the LONGEST possible position. Do this on a 2nd or 3rd part, and not on something where an error on your part is going to tick everyone off. (If it's a really serious group, don't do it at all, probably.) This runs counter to your natural tendency to play everything in the shortest possible position. Doing this on a regular basis (1) drills the alternate positions (2) helps to build excellent breath support due to the extra tubing and (3) it's a lot of fun. A student of mine came up with a similar idea on his own in the process of my encouragement to use more of his options in longer positions. He came back the next week having learned an entire Bordogni/Rochut etude (and not an easy one at all - one of the nice ones near the beginning of Book 2) IN FOURTH POSITION AND BEYOND. ON A STRAIGHT HORN. Needless to say, I was impressed. If I was grading him he would have earned As for the rest of his life, just for that one great idea. He was already an advanced player, but in just that one week his intonation - already good - improved dramatically all over the horn. His flexibility and smooth legato, which needed work, also improved dramatically. AND he gave me something to practice as well! If I may plug him a little, he's a member of a band called The Humming. www.thehumming.com He plays trombone, saxophones, flute, keyboards, and does most of the lead singing for the band. Good stuff - well-written, interesting pop played by a group that also take gigs doing jazz standards, so they can definitely play their instruments. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:29:20 -0500 From: Thomas Cox To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands Message-ID: <0632CC5F67853B4D96D542BAE8AD00825E1450@merc08.us.sas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, if we're going to swap stories... When I was touring with the Spirit of America marching band (see http://www.spiritamerica.com/index.htm ) in 1984, I was fortunate (?) enough to play a solo on "Hello, Young Lovers" surrounded by a circle of majorettes. During a performance in Switzerland, an errant baton clipped my slide near the end, such that the first two positions were unusable while playing. For the last few performances, I had to play the whole show, including the solo, in third or longer. George Naff later told me he was surprised and pleased I was able to pull it off. (I *think* that was a complement...) (OK, it ain't much, but it's about the best story I've got.) - Thomas Cox -----Original Message----- From: Chris Waage [mailto:chris@trombone.org] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 4:00 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Long positions, was Trigger Horns & Big Bands In college, I played with the Liberty Summer Band, and we'd have contests to see who could play an entire piece without using first position. Of course, those of us with double-rotor basses usually won ;-) Chris >--- Neal Schermerhorn wrote: >> One exercise I use at the rehearsal big band I play >> with is this - play a >> chart in the LONGEST possible position. Do this on a >> 2nd or 3rd part, and >> not on something where an error on your part is >> going to tick everyone off. >> (If it's a really serious group, don't do it at all, >> probably.) This runs >> counter to your natural tendency to play everything >> in the shortest possible >> position. Doing this on a regular basis (1) drills >> the alternate positions >> (2) helps to build excellent breath support due to >> the extra tubing and (3) >> it's a lot of fun. > >A student of mine came up with a similar idea on his >own in the process of my encouragement to use more of >his options in longer positions. He came back the next >week having learned an entire Bordogni/Rochut etude >(and not an easy one at all - one of the nice ones >near the beginning of Book 2) IN FOURTH POSITION AND >BEYOND. ON A STRAIGHT HORN. > >Needless to say, I was impressed. If I was grading him >he would have earned As for the rest of his life, just >for that one great idea. He was already an advanced >player, but in just that one week his intonation - >already good - improved dramatically all over the >horn. His flexibility and smooth legato, which needed >work, also improved dramatically. AND he gave me >something to practice as well! > >If I may plug him a little, he's a member of a band >called The Humming. www.thehumming.com >He plays trombone, saxophones, flute, keyboards, and >does most of the lead singing for the band. Good stuff >- well-written, interesting pop played by a group that >also take gigs doing jazz standards, so they can >definitely play their instruments. > >Gabe > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:14:24 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Improv. Camp Message-ID: <3A636830.60778D28@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit lewismm@songs.sce.com wrote: > I'd like to correspond with someone who has recently attended a summer jazz > improvisation camp, such as is run by the Aebersold people, for example. > Looking for firsthand info re: an opportunity suitable for both an adult > amateur trombonist and his 15 yr. old trumpeter son. > Mark, I recommend contacting Jim Widner at jwbigband@aol.com He has several improv camps during the summer at various college campuses around the country. The locations are Las Vegas, Mobile AL, and three different locations in Missouri. They are a week each, and I think the price is very reasonable compared to some of the others I've seen advertised. Jim also has two big band camps that I am on the faculty for. One in Springfield, MO and one in Fort Worth, TX. The big band camps are excellent. I have been teaching and performing at them for several years. There is a full 19 piece professional band in residence, giving a concert every night as in the old Kenton camps. We have had participants ranging in age from 13 to 80. The band has 3 albums out, and is very good. I haven't been involved with the improv camps but I'm sure they're quite good. The trombone faculty will be one of the following: Paul Mckee, Carl Fontana, Brett Stamps, or Rick Culver. The trumpet faculty would be Dave Scott, possibly Clay Jenkins, or another professional jazz player. Contact Jim and ask for information about dates and prices. Eric Swanson ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:15:57 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Long positions Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, at least once a week, since I play along with my students, I'll notice that the kid's slide seems to be following mine. That's usually when I start playing every note I can in "optional" positions, stuff like Bb in 5, leger line D in 7, A in 6, etc. It's usually good for a laugh (all right, it's at the student's expense, but it serves him right!), and I get to make the point that they (supposedly) know the "right" positions, so why are you following mine? When I really want to mess with them, I play my alto. It's good practice for me, too! Walter Barrett Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:23:16 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: Harykoz@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: <200101152229.RAA22676@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:04 PM 1/15/01 -0500, Harykoz wrote: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>In a message dated 1/15/01 10:29:22 AM Central Standard Time, >>jalbert@bellsouth.net writes: >> ><< My only dislike, was that I heard a lot of trombone players put the mic >>halfway up to their tuning slide, and get that type of sound. I understand >> that the tempos are much easier to deal with that way, but you lose all the >>individuality of sound. It concerns me that we are all sounding like same >> toned machines. >> >>That worry was dissipated however when I heard the Smithsonian Jazz >>Masterworks Orchestra. Sam Burtis was featured on J.J. Johnson's "Say >>When", and sounded great. He stepped back from the mic, and let HIS sound >>be heard, and kept up with the tempo fine, without the microphone crutch. >>It restored my faith in trombonists. Another enjoyable aspect of that >>concert was the absolutely marvelous bass trombone sound of Earl McIntyre. >>It was completely musical. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ harykoz then wrote: > >Here we go again! The microphone thing! The mike is only a tool. I would >rather here a guy using a mike than hear a guy playing and sounding like a >drum and bugle horn player. Now, Sabutan is going to chime in with usual >authoritative aplomb and tell us all how trombones never sound like trombones >when amplified. > >The thing is, when playing in a larger venue and in a jazz soloist setting, >the trombone cannot be heard acoustically. (Unless one totally abandons >playing anything at the quieter volume levels.) > >I find it comical to hear the guys who abandon the use of amplification and >all you hear is "Blat O Blat O Blat." > >Hary ========================== And Sam Burtis is writing: OK Hary, you're right. I AM going to step in here. However, first a thankful acknowledgement to Jeff Albert for his compliment to me, and to Earl McIntyre as well. Now on w/the show. The IAJE main hall was a large ballroom in a large hotel covered w/a large carpet, a couple of thousand large people, and a sound system that MIGHT have been effective and accurate if only the people operating it knew what they were doing and the bands had had a good hour or two to fine tune during a sound check. However...it was business as usual, and none of that happened. We had 1/2 an hour to sound check, 20 minutes of that was spent trying to get them to turn off the acoustic bass and piano in the monitors so it didn't sound like Kraftwerk or Aerosmith on stage, and when we finally DID get on stage 7 hours later they had completely lost whatever settings they had gotten during the sound check anyway. This act is ABSOLUTELY MAINSTREAM in most festival and club settings, by the way. Nothing new here, nothing unexpected, and I have largely chosen how I play the trombone as a soloist and lead player in order to deal w/it, as has Earl as a bass trombonist. When I stepped in front of the band to play my feature on "Say When", it was the first time I had played anything into that particular mike during either the sound check or the performance. I have done this sort of thing often enough so that I have my OWN "sound check" whenever I play a solo in such situations, and here's what I did then (and what I do every time I'm in a similar situation as well). The first two or three notes I played into the mike...from about 5 inches away...I played at my usual and preferred MF-F volume for uptempo bebop playing. The sound sucked, so I stepped away from the mike a few more inches until it DIDN'T suck quite so badly, playing just loud enough so that I could hear myself coming off the wall in the back. (A good solid F, headed toward a controlled FF.) I then continued through the piece at about that volume, using whatever techniques I thought necessary in order to be able to make the tempo at that volume, and using whatever ranges of the horn were usable w/out a great deal of sound reinforcement. (In this case, I used mostly double tongue and stayed pretty much between 3rd partial F and 10th partial D... J.J. range, mostly, and you can bet one of the reasons it WAS J.J's range was because HE didn't want to rely on bad sound systems either.) Hary, I will guarantee it didn't sound "Blat O Blat O Blat", because I know what I'm doing. I've chosen my equipment and my technical style so that I CAN play musically w/projection, and I am willing to sacrifice a certain small part of my technique and range if need be in order to play w/a full sound rather than pussyfoot around w/the mike halfway in my bell sounding like a theremin on steroids. (Which is EXACTLY what the people Jeff so diplomatically does not specify DID sound like.) I learned this from listening to and thoroughly considering what J.J. did, how HE solved the problem, and I think it is the best solution. For me. Further, I will guarantee that the players that Jeff heard sounded muffled, moved the non-trombonists in the audience not a WHIT, and played all over the horn w/great flexibility and speed. My take on that whole style is...SO WHAT??? Everybody chooses how they want to play. I try to play for non-trombonists (and for trombonists who are interested in the music first and what I call "stupid trombone tricks" second, if at all). If this offends you in some way, so be it. Meanwhile, for those of you on the list who are still learning and considering things as players, let me assure you, you CAN play acoustically (semi-acoustically anyway, in this case) in large settings, still be quite "musical", still make the fastest tempos, and still be heard. Jack Teagarden did it. J.J. Johnson did it. Bill Harris did it. Gary Valente does it. I do it. You can too. Later... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:27:34 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: campora@peabody.jhu.edu Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Earl McIntyre Message-ID: <200101152229.RAA01174@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:09 PM 1/15/01 -0500, you wrote: > >That worry was dissipated however when I heard the Smithsonian Jazz > >Masterworks Orchestra. Sam Burtis was featured on J.J. Johnson's "Say > >When", and sounded great. He stepped back from the mic, and let HIS sound > >be heard, and kept up with the tempo fine, without the microphone crutch. > >It restored my faith in trombonists. Another enjoyable aspect of that > >concert was the absolutely marvelous bass trombone sound of Earl McIntyre. > >It was completely musical. > >Sabutin, can you tell us a little about what Earl is up to these days? I >have never met him but I remember him very fondly from my Thad Jones Mel >Lewis LPs that I played until they were near death, and his mini-solo on >the tune "Thank You". > > -Randy Campora > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Earl's freelancing around NY, writing...he's a good arranger...and doing a great deal of Finale copy work. He has a GLORIOUS bass trombone sound for acoustic jazz work, and is, along w/Dave Taylor and Paul Faulise, my favorite bass trombonist in this idiom. Great sound, great pitch, great time, great attitude. A master. S. =================== >Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist >Baltimore Symphony Orchestra >Peabody Conservatory of Music > >campora@peabody.jhu.edu >410-461-1984 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:40:49 -0600 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: <002401c07f44$35f18be0$20cc1442@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sabutin wrote: > > Further, I will guarantee that the players that Jeff heard sounded > muffled, moved the non-trombonists in the audience not a WHIT, and played > all over the horn w/great flexibility and speed. > > I guess that is really the point. I would rather be moved musically than impressed technically. Jeff Albert www.jeffalbert.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:12:07 -0600 From: "Hal Starkey" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Riverwalk Message-ID: <003301c07f48$95318fc0$0c381b41@KSCABLE.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01C07F16.4A5B9D60" Actually, the Riverwalk website is the home of the Jim Cullum band. And, yes, it is great to be able to hear it on public radio. A local NPR station carried it here for awhile. At 10 o' clock Sunday mornings! It was dropped because of low audience appeal. Huh! I wonder why? Another nearby NPR station picked it up and sensibly broadcasts it at 7PM on Saturdays.Ê Last year I was in San Antonio and got to go hear Jim Cullum's band.ÊÊThat alone was worth traveling down to see. Even my "reluctant to go" teenage daughters got caught up in the music. During the livelyÊperformances I saw them bouncing in their chairs and tapping their feet. During the intermissions the girls even talked to the musicians and got all their autographs. Hal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Molter" <kingbone@earthlink.net> Sent: January 15, 2001 9:00 AM > I sent this info to Doug Yeo but should have posted it to the list: > > Check out the Riverwalk jazz site: www.riverwalk.org. Home of the Matt > Cullum Jazz Band, it has great info to complement the Public Radio > International series, Riverwalk, which airs nationally. Sometime in > fall, the series focused on bass sax, and I believe it was played by > Steve Giordano. You can get to Steve's bio on the site by checking the > guest roster. The series features the type of early jazz that was the > staple of Ken Burns' first four segments of "Jazz." It's all live music > and much of it is available on CDs that can be bought the site. The site > also has a schedule of upcoming shows and a list of the stations that > carry it nationally. In March, Jack Teagarden will be the subject of two segments. > > Dave Molter ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:46:04 EST From: Harykoz@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: <6d.e1f728a.2794e5bc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/15/01 4:30:28 PM Central Standard Time, sabutin@mindspring.com writes: << Now on w/the show. Sam, I have hit a nerve with you here. Based on your writings it is obvious that you are very biased in regard to how a trombone should be played as a jazz solo instrument. You have reinforced that bias by further criticizing some fantastic trombonists by condemning their use of the microphone. (All of the players that were mentioned in a previous post, are fantastic musicians. Where is your anger coming from?) I agree with your "For Me" statement. But do not put your views on to those of us who disagree with you. It is not acceptable. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''' This is only your opinion. Because you have this opinion does not make it so. If you want to ignore the quieter dynamic levels of the trombone, this is fine! "For You!" I have a feeling many were moved. Obviously, not you. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''' Those that can't, often fall back on this rhetoric. You can call facility a "Stupid trombone trick." However, I see it as utilizing the entire range and scope of the instrument. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''' And if you want to become part of the twenty-first century, learn to use the electronics to your benefit. Do not get left in the past! Jim Pugh does it. John Fedchock does it. Bob McChesney does it. Michael Davis does it. Conrad Herwig does it. Bill Watrous does it. and on and on and on.... Oh, and even JJ Johnson was doing it when I last saw him. Yep! Had a mike clamped on to his Yamaha bell. Go figure, huh? Sam, always great to have a discussion with you. Hary Jack Teagarden did it. J.J. Johnson did it. Bill Harris did it. Gary Valente does it. I do it. You can too. Later... S. >> ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:16:37 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Clampit Message-ID: <001601c07f59$f9cf4060$2d75dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > At 07:07 PM 1/14/01 -0800, Gary D. Maxwell blasted the following out into > > the ether: > > > > > >It has yet to arrive, but I just purchased a brand new invention called a > > >Clampit, from Dalton Music in Norfolk, Nebraska. > > > > ======================================== > And then "Earl Needham", re-blasted forth: > > > Isn't that something that cows get? > ======================================== > And Gary added: And with gastrol perfunctory, I sally forth with: > > Yeah, kinda like "spitvalve" desease. > > Gary Maxwell - home for MLK Day - should be practicing. > No no no. Doesn't anyone remember the "Clampits"? Wasn't that the family name of "The Beverly Hillbilly's". Tom carbon dating himself ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:41:38 +0100 From: "Arthur Koolen" To: Subject: painting trombones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I want, just for fun, paint a trombone in some nice color(s). I saw on lasax.com some very spectacular painted instruments. for example a black tenor bone, a white valve bone and some very spectacular tenorsaxes. (Leopard,zebra striping) Does anybody know how I should do this? How do I remove the old laquer and which sort of paint should I use? Does it effect the sound of the horn very much or just a little? How it sounds is less inportant, but it must be easy blowing. I know also that King makes 2B bones with the colors blue, red and green. I don't know if this is just for the Dutch market, but I know they excist because a person I know has one. He picked a red one because his wife has red hair. He just loves red :-) He has also a King 4B with redbrass bell. :-) I have a bone with f-attachment that I like to paint. The reason? Read on.... Here in the south of Holland (Limburg/Brabant), we have once a year a event named Carnaval. This is something you can compare a little bit like carnival in rio. Small bands playing "funny" music and drinking very much beer. Just party!!!!! Everybody is dressed like a clown, cowboy or whatever that person likes. I play also in such a band. I just want a instrument that looks very spectacular. The sound of the instrument is less important, because knowbody cares. Having fun is the most important thing. Those day's are the only day's in a year that I also don't care how I sound. It just has to be very powerfull. I hope somebody can help me with this. Greetings. Arthur Koolen ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:45:31 +0100 From: "Arthur Koolen" To: Subject: update painting trombones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are some links to the colors and patterns http://www.lasax.com/colors.htm http://www.lasax.com/species.htm grtz. Arthur ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:46:27 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: jeanvaljean@ntsource.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Clampit Message-ID: <7e.f867fec.2794f3e3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/15/01 7:18:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jeanvaljean@ntsource.com writes: << >> They had a concrete pond too. Did you see Jethro's Trombone??? beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:49:44 +0100 From: "Arthur Koolen" To: Subject: slide trumpet = slide sopran trombone Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Is a slide trumpet the same as a sopran (or is it sopranino) trombone? gr. Arthur ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:53:10 -0500 From: Candice & Eric Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: painting trombones Message-ID: <3A638D65.B662F28E@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arthur Koolen wrote: > Hello, > > I want, just for fun, paint a trombone in some nice color(s). > Does anybody know how I should do this? > How do I remove the old laquer and which sort of paint should I use? > Does it effect the sound of the horn very much or just a little? Arthur, I don't know if you have it over there, but in the US the best spray paint is Krylon brand. Use the best you can get. I wouldn't bother stripping the lacquer, just paint right over. Clean any oil or grease off, mask off any parts you don't want painted or to make stripes. Don't put on the paint too thick and it will still play fine, response might slow down a little. Eric ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:02:08 +0100 From: "Arthur Koolen" To: Subject: RE: painting trombones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Eric, is Krylon temperarely paint? And what if I remove the laquer? The paint can be a little bit thicker (harder?) and doesn't effect the response very much. Am I right? -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]Namens Candice & Eric Swanson Verzonden: dinsdag 16 januari 2001 0:53 Aan: Trombones and related issues forum. Onderwerp: Re: painting trombones Arthur Koolen wrote: > Hello, > > I want, just for fun, paint a trombone in some nice color(s). > Does anybody know how I should do this? > How do I remove the old laquer and which sort of paint should I use? > Does it effect the sound of the horn very much or just a little? Arthur, I don't know if you have it over there, but in the US the best spray paint is Krylon brand. Use the best you can get. I wouldn't bother stripping the lacquer, just paint right over. Clean any oil or grease off, mask off any parts you don't want painted or to make stripes. Don't put on the paint too thick and it will still play fine, response might slow down a little. Eric ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:11:19 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: slide trumpet = slide sopran trombone Message-ID: <000d01c07f61$9e781900$0975dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arthur, ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Koolen To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: slide trumpet = slide sopran trombone > Hello, > > Is a slide trumpet the same as a sopran (or is it sopranino) trombone? Techically no, a true slide Trumpet, has a moving bell. But what you've probably seen or heard called a Slide Trumpet, would most probably be a Soprano Trombone. Sopranos are made currently in Bb, A, & C, though the Bb is by far the most common. There are even a few Bb's w/F attachment. The Sopranino's are in Eb (one of them even has a Bb attachment). The Soprano is an octave above the Tenor. The Sopranino is an octave above the Alto. You can see pictures of these on my website: http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/ I even have pictures of the most minute Trombone: the Piccolo (octave higher than the Soprano). Tom > > gr. > > Arthur ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:23:24 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: a.koolen@hccnet.nl Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: painting trombones Message-ID: <3A63A28C.E054C4EC@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Arthur and list, Personally, I love the idea of a painted trombone. I recently did some painting in my basement/studio and was secretly tempted to paint a few dabs on my horn (dark red interior latex would have looked great). It was probably the fumes getting to me after a few coats, though. I would love to see the results when and if you go ahead and do it. Unfortunately I am too conservative and play in orchestras where the backlash would be too much for me to handle. (You know how they/we are, even with those gatemouth bags). I have this inner desire to come to work one day with some wildly painted bass trombone just to freak everybody out. Mmmmm, I still have some paint left over... Peter Collins Bass Trombone Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:34:34 -0500 From: "Andrew Elms" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Subject: RE: painting trombones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First let me say that I own a lovely green and white painted trombone... an old Conn director that needed some new life. Here's what I did: 1. Strip old lacquer, ZipStrip makes a wonderful aerosol variety that goes on very evenly and removes all the lacquer if you let it work long enough. 2. Polish bare brass with a fine steel wool. Doesn't take much, just a little to remove the little bit of lacquer that you missed when you rinsed off the stripper too soon. 3. Apply a nice automotive primer. Aerosol is the best, it's easier to prevent it from running. A nice thin coat of gray primer is an easy start. 4. Apply the color of your choice paint. Mask off parts that you want to paint a second color. The metallic colors work best. I found a great dark metallic green that looked great on the Ford cars, it really shines beautifully on the horn. 5. Using masking tape or a paint marker, it's pretty easy to put on nice decorations or words. I have a [bad] digital pic of my horn if you want to see what it looks like, for a completely untalented buffoon who had too many junk horns and was bored one day. Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Arthur Koolen Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:42 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: painting trombones Hello, I want, just for fun, paint a trombone in some nice color(s). I saw on lasax.com some very spectacular painted instruments. for example a black tenor bone, a white valve bone and some very spectacular tenorsaxes. (Leopard,zebra striping) Does anybody know how I should do this? How do I remove the old laquer and which sort of paint should I use? Does it effect the sound of the horn very much or just a little? How it sounds is less inportant, but it must be easy blowing. I know also that King makes 2B bones with the colors blue, red and green. I don't know if this is just for the Dutch market, but I know they excist because a person I know has one. He picked a red one because his wife has red hair. He just loves red :-) He has also a King 4B with redbrass bell. :-) I have a bone with f-attachment that I like to paint. The reason? Read on.... Here in the south of Holland (Limburg/Brabant), we have once a year a event named Carnaval. This is something you can compare a little bit like carnival in rio. Small bands playing "funny" music and drinking very much beer. Just party!!!!! Everybody is dressed like a clown, cowboy or whatever that person likes. I play also in such a band. I just want a instrument that looks very spectacular. The sound of the instrument is less important, because knowbody cares. Having fun is the most important thing. Those day's are the only day's in a year that I also don't care how I sound. It just has to be very powerfull. I hope somebody can help me with this. Greetings. Arthur Koolen ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:37:14 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: painting trombones Message-ID: <002a01c07f5c$dc35b540$06525d3f@garymaxwell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Peter Collins Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Re: painting trombones > even with those gatemouth bags). I have this inner desire to come to > work one day with some wildly painted bass trombone just to freak > everybody out. Mmmmm, I still have some paint left over... ======================================== Hey Peter! You do yours and I'll let you have a go at my 50B. Something in a Kelly Green, Gold and White, I think. That would even fit in with my Gatemouth bag. (:>)) Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:33:53 -0500 From: "Roger Carmichael" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Clampit Message-ID: <001801c07f64$cdeea480$4f302a3f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Clampit > > No no no. Doesn't anyone remember the "Clampits"? Wasn't that the family > name of "The Beverly Hillbilly's". Maybe it was the Clampetts? ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:05:30 -0800 From: "Rod Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: painting trombones Message-ID: <003201c07f69$30d171a0$2be394d1@ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd love something in a leopard pattern Rod ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:09:47 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: Harykoz@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: <200101160312.WAA20246@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:46 PM 1/15/01 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/15/01 4:30:28 PM Central Standard Time, >sabutin@mindspring.com writes: > ><< Now on w/the show. > > > know what I'm doing. I've chosen my equipment and my technical style so that >I CAN play musically w/projection, and I am willing to sacrifice a certain >small part of my technique and range if need be in order to play w/a full >sound rather than pussyfoot around w/the mike halfway in my bell sounding >like a theremin on steroids. (Which is EXACTLY what the people Jeff so >diplomatically does not specify DID sound like.) I learned this from >listening to and thoroughly considering what J.J. did, how HE solved the >problem, and I think it is the best solution. For me.> > >Sam, > >I have hit a nerve with you here. Based on your writings it is obvious that >you are very biased in regard to how a trombone should be played as a jazz >solo instrument. You have reinforced that bias by further criticizing some >fantastic trombonists by condemning their use of the microphone. (All of the >players that were mentioned in a previous post, are fantastic musicians. >Where is your anger coming from?) I agree with your "For Me" statement. But >do not put your views on to those of us who disagree with you. It is not >acceptable. >''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''' > >================= I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, Hary. Later on in this post you list Jim Pugh, John Fedchock, Bob McChesney, Michael Davis, Conrad Herwig and Bill Watrous as examples of people who use microphones as an integral part of their sound. I don't, nor do (or did, in their primes) the people who I have used as primary models for MY approach to the trombone...Jack Teagarden, Bill Harris, Trummy Young, Britt Woodman, J.J. Johnson, Curtis Fuller, Jimmy Knepper and Slide Hampton, for a short, off-the top-of-my-head list. They played NEAR microphones, but did not RELY on them as an integral part of their sound producing mechanism. Do you want me to put down Jim, Conrad, Michael and the others ? I won't...they're mostly my colleagues and friends, and they're all wonderful players. Further, I will continue to suggest to younger players that they pay more attention to the acoustic approaches of the masters than many of them do. Don't concern yourself w/my (or my approach) being "left behind" in the march of progress...ain't gonna happen. As far as where my "anger" is coming from...I simply don't like your act. I tried for some time to forgive you your consistently hostile approach to others on this list as well as myself, but no more... You're a troll and a flamer, and you now reside in my killfile. S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:04:00 EST From: Harykoz@aol.com To: sabutin@mindspring.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: <5d.5e3513d.27952230@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/15/01 9:13:17 PM Central Standard Time, sabutin@mindspring.com writes: << As far as where my "anger" is coming from...I simply don't like your act. I tried for some time to forgive you your consistently hostile approach to others on this list as well as myself, but no more... You're a troll and a flamer, and you now reside in my killfile. >> I may disagree with you and you may feel frustrated that someone would dare disagree with your New York opinions but your accusations have zero foundation. What the hell is wrong with you? Who is flaming who? Hary ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:27:04 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Harykoz@aol.com, sabutin@mindspring.com, Trombone-L Subject: FROM THE LIST MONITOR: Re: Blat O Blat O Blat Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" This needs no further discussion on the trombone-l. If you choose to continue the discussion, please do so off the list. Thank you, LM In a message dated 1/15/01 9:13:17 PM Central Standard Time, sabutin@mindspring.com writes: << As far as where my "anger" is coming from...I simply don't like your act. I tried for some time to forgive you your consistently hostile approach to others on this list as well as myself, but no more... You're a troll and a flamer, and you now reside in my killfile. >> I may disagree with you and you may feel frustrated that someone would dare disagree with your New York opinions but your accusations have zero foundation. What the hell is wrong with you? Who is flaming who? Hary ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1924--