TROMBONE-L Digest 1914 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Open Horn Sounds by bob topper 2) RE: Open Horn Sounds by "Kevin Saunders" 3) Re: Open Horn Sounds by sabutin@mindspring.com 4) RE: Open Horn Sounds by Douglas Yeo 5) Re: Open Horn Sounds by Walter Barrett 6) Re: Required audition solo (was: Sachse) by "Jen and Andy Walls" 7) Re: Open Horn Sounds by "Dennis Clason" 8) Re: Open Horn Sounds by Gabriel Langfur 9) RE: Open Horn Sounds by Gabriel Langfur 10) Re: Open Horn Sounds by Harykoz@aol.com 11) RE: Open Horn Sounds by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 12) Re: Required audition solo (was:Sachse) by "Gordon Bowie" 13) Evolution pic by Earl Needham 14) Re: Open Horn Sounds by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 15) Re: Required audition solo (was: Sachse) by jimandcat@juno.com 16) RE: Evolution pic by "Dyke, David" 17) RE: Open Horn Sounds by "Thomas Smee" 18) OTJ News & Events Sections by Chris Waage 19) by "Andy Lester" 20) Re: Open Horn Sounds by "Paul D. Kemp Jr." 21) Fwd: Upcoming Texas Tour by Bonetown by Chris Waage 22) RE: Sackbut, serpent, Schickele and more by Nancy Vogt 23) mouthpiece buzzing by yardlejw@uwec.edu 24) RE: mouthpiece buzzing by Steve Gamble 25) Re: mouthpiece buzzing by Craig Parmerlee 26) Re: Evolution pic by "Dick Sleeman" 27) Re: Open Horn Sounds by MMBNo1@aol.com 28) Re: mouthpiece buzzing by BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com 29) Re: crescendo-decrescendo exercises by jimandcat@juno.com 30) Re: mouthpiece buzzing by Gabriel Langfur 31) Bass Trombone for sale by Douglas Yeo 32) Re: Evolution pic by "Aaron Roth" 33) RE: Open Horn Sounds by "Daniel Pliskin" 34) Euphonium Rental in Phoenix, AZ by "William Huber" 35) Re: Open Horn Sounds by "Roger Carmichael" 36) RE: Open Horn Sounds by "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" 37) Re: mouthpiece buzzing by sabutin@mindspring.com 38) TMEA by "Dilshad Kasmani" 39) St. Olaf Orchestra Tour by "Douglas A. Rowe" 40) TMEA Performances by "Douglas A. Rowe" ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:09:22 -0500 From: bob topper To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: MasterCoda@aol.com Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105080424.00af79f0@mailhost.pav.research.panasonic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Peter, The Conn 88h with the Lindberg valve has no bend at all in the tubing at the valve. If you sight from the tuning slide end to the slide receiver, you can see clear through. As far as the sound of the horn, I found it to be a pure, sweet sounding horn. Good luck, Bob Topper Original message: Hi list, a while ago I asked about new horn suggestions because of my Bach 42 BOG's failing rotor. And many thanks for all the advice. I'd like to pose another question now: Out of all stock horns on the market, not considering valve sound at all, which horn has the best, purest open sound? Do any horns minimize the slight bend of air at the rotor section that most horns have? I've seen that the Greenhoe valve does this, but overall (w/ or w/out a Greenhoe valve) which horn, in your opinion (or another's if you must), has the 'best' open sound? One final factor, no valve is NOT an option, though it may be the best, there will be many times between now and after college that I'll be playing third parts etc., so for the time being, let's stick w/ f attachment horns. Many thanks, Peter Strenkowski Principal Principle Trombonist, Taylor High School Wind Ensemble and Symphony Orchestra. *** New Address Effective: 4/14/00 *** Bob Topper Panasonic AVC American Laboratories, Inc. 311 Main Street Westampton, NJ 08060 Phone: 609-518-3700 Ext. 3225 Fax: 609-518-3720 Email: topper@pavcal.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:09:09 -0600 From: "Kevin Saunders" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, and listers, Gary must have missed this one so I will try and comment. The concept of "open" is one of player perception, and the sound is what the audience hears. The player is hearing a different sound because of the location of his/her ears beside (not in front) of the bell, and the transmission of vibrations through the body. Play with earplugs to listen to that component. In the last few months I have witnessed many players try a horn with Greenhoe valves and say, "not as open" after playing two notes. I have seen the same players hear a direct comparison with horns fitted with 1) no valve (straight horn) 2) Greenhoes 3) Thayers 4) Hagmanns. It is enlightening to hear the same player try the different horns in the same context. Every player Gary and I have shown horns to in this manner have chosen in the following order: 1) Greenhoe 2) straight horn 3) Thayer 4) Hagmann. The players chose the SOUND of the horn while listening to someone else play it! Then after HEARING the horn, they went back to playing the horns themselves and they could reproduce the components they heard while IN FRONT of the bell. This leads me to the actual thought on this subject. I believe that people are confusing a horn that has the least resistance as the most "open" and therefore the best. There are many fine players who stick to traditional rotaries because the SOUND is better and the horn projects better than one with axial flow valves. I think that over time people will find that Gary is really on to something because he has struck the BALANCE between resistance and sound improvement. Some resistance is required, and we all have had to adapt to Thayers and find a way to make them sound good. I encourage you all to not take my word for it, but really LISTEN to a horn. Take Sabutin's advice (and others!) and do blind tests. Get out from behind the horn and visualize the core of the sound, so you can then compare it to others. Finally, please remember our sound memory is very short, so you should try to compare on a real time basis if at all possible. In summary: 1) The sound is our product. How it projects over the violas (if applicable) matters the most. If you have to play with earplugs, you then know that your "sound" may be horrible TO YOU, but with practice and confidence, you will know that the AUDIENCE will hear the musical expression you intend. 2) Openness is not the only factor in how good a horn is. 3) If you really listen, you can hear the difference. 4) Some sort of scientific comparison is essential. 5) Last but not least, all of these professional horns, with any valve combination, can get a professional player through a gig. These discussions are IMHO aimed at our lifelong process in improvement, and therefore are warranted. It is ok to try for the best in equipment, as long as that includes aiming for the best in practice and performance. Equipment alone will not cut it. Making the process more objective and less subjective is the goal. I encourage all of us to really challenge ourselves in what we are doing with our music. It is a lot of work. I think it is worth it. Best regards to all and Happy New Year! Kevin Saunders -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of MasterCoda@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:25 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Open Horn Sounds Hi list, a while ago I asked about new horn suggestions because of my Bach 42 BOG's failing rotor. And many thanks for all the advice. I'd like to pose another question now: Out of all stock horns on the market, not considering valve sound at all, which horn has the best, purest open sound? Do any horns minimize the slight bend of air at the rotor section that most horns have? I've seen that the Greenhoe valve does this, but overall (w/ or w/out a Greenhoe valve) which horn, in your opinion (or another's if you must), has the 'best' open sound? One final factor, no valve is NOT an option, though it may be the best, there will be many times between now and after college that I'll be playing third parts etc., so for the time being, let's stick w/ f attachment horns. Many thanks, Peter Strenkowski Principal Principle Trombonist, Taylor High School Wind Ensemble and Symphony Orchestra. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:29:09 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: MasterCoda@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <200101051430.JAA23048@maynard.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:24 PM 1/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi list, a while ago I asked about new horn suggestions because of my Bach 42 >BOG's failing rotor. And many thanks for all the advice. I'd like to pose >another question now: Out of all stock horns on the market, not considering >valve sound at all, which horn has the best, purest open sound? Do any horns >minimize the slight bend of air at the rotor section that most horns have? >I've seen that the Greenhoe valve does this, but overall (w/ or w/out a >Greenhoe valve) which horn, in your opinion (or another's if you must), has >the 'best' open sound? One final factor, no valve is NOT an option, though it >may be the best, there will be many times between now and after college that >I'll be playing third parts etc., so for the time being, let's stick w/ f >attachment horns. >Many thanks, >Peter Strenkowski >Principal Principle Trombonist, Taylor High School Wind Ensemble and Symphony >Orchestra. ========================== Peter... Unanswerable. The question SHOULD be: What horns will play closest to the way I want to play when I play them? (Not just "sound"...gotta be somewhat in tune and have a certain amount of mobility and range as well...) First thing you have to do is decide how YOU want to play. Listen; choose models...listen to all the great orchestral trombone sections, all the great soloists; go to hear 'em live if you possibly can (recordings often lie like a dog). Once you've begun to understand where YOU really want to come from...and there is an ENORMOUS difference between, say Christian Lindbergh and Joe Alessi, for example...then play all the equipment you can get your hands on. (Brass and trombone conferences are the best places to do this, but you can find examples of most horns in fairly large metropolitan area as well, if you look hard enough.) Also, find out what the players you like are playing. If you really bear down on this, it's a several month operation, minimum. By the time your research is finished, however, you'll have a really good idea of what you want, and will have something that will last you for many years. Right now is a time of rapid change in the trombone equipment world. Edwards and Shires have raised the bar here in the US and the major companies are trying to compete w/them; Thayer and Greenhoe valves have spawned many variations; there are any NUMBER of fine English, German and French trombones appearing in the hands of fine players ... From the '50s until fairly recently, 98% of orchestral tenor trombonists seemed to play one instrument...first the 88H, then the 42B. No more...look around; it's worth the effort. Good luck... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:45:15 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 8:09 AM -0600 1/5/01, Kevin Saunders wrote: This leads me to the actual thought on this subject. I believe that people are confusing a horn that has the least resistance as the most "open" and therefore the best. There are many fine players who stick to traditional rotaries because the SOUND is better and the horn projects better than one with axial flow valves. I think that over time people will find that Gary is really on to something because he has struck the BALANCE between resistance and sound improvement. Some resistance is required, and we all have had to adapt to Thayers and find a way to make them sound good. Kevin's comments resonate strongly with me. I play a horn with traditional (albeit improved) rotary valves (Yamaha YBL622) because it works well for me. I've played horns over the years with Thayer and other valves and have come to feel that the horn I have has the best "balance" of the things I look for in a horn for most applications. We trombonists, in particular, more than players of any other instrument, have become nearly obsessed with "efficiency." But Kevin is quite right (and I have posted comments about this in the past): efficiency is not the end all of an instrument. A trombone, by its nature, projects very well. It is bell front, only one of two instruments (the other being trumpet) in an ensemble that does so - ALL other instruments have their sound go UP (or even backwards, as in the case of the horn). Why are certain old instrument so highly prized (I speak in particular of old Conns and other German style instruments): because, among other things, of the quality of sound which is a bit more resistive than more modern instruments. The "pillow" against which you blow in an old Conn, or my old Schmidt, for instance, is part of what gives it its remarkable sound. Today, in the search for "efficiency," many horns have become sterile and dry sounding, with no particular characteristic of unique speech. I find this lamentable. Kevin, Sam, and many other sensible players continue to pound away at the simple advice: just TRY everything with an open mind. There are MANY factors which go into choosing a horn, not the least of which is the KIND of playing you will be doing with it. But this obsession with "efficiency" seems to me to be one of the reasons we are hearing so much undistinguished playing from trombonists these days. We've been playing the Schumann "Rhenish" Symphony in the Boston Symphony this week, and I've been experimenting with two horns in rehearsal, my old Schmidt and a Yamaha YBL601 which is their old single valve "Vienna model" bass trombone. Both are small bore basses, .525/.547, and both match well with a section with an alto on top and an old .525 Conn on second. Both of the horns I've been playing have much more resistance than modern American instruments, but that's precisely why the opening chorale can be played ppp. (No kidding, folks, if you haven't played the piece in an orchestra, then you've never really practiced playing it ppp - the texture should be so soft, so fluid, and each player nearly inaudible - THAT gives it magic. I can't teach a student to play that soft becasue if I demand it, they don't believe they might actually have to play THAT soft. Trust me, you do, and most people don't believe it until they get in the situation.) The resistance also keeps the quality from getting harsh and edgy when playing louder volumes. Both horns have the archaic leather strap mechanism to operate the valve - ergonomically it's a disaster, but you put up with things which are inefficient sometimes because they actually are worth the effort for the product. In the end I decided to use the YBL601 for these concerts because the Schmidt has a single valve in E which made for some overly awkward slide work on my part in the Schubert Overture which opens the program (D. 648). All of this is just to say that life is full of practical applications, and the right tool for the job will usually go a long way to help ensure the job is done well. If you limit your investigation of instruments to characteristics you THINK will be best, ("I want a horn with the most open sound, with the most up to date valves, the biggest bell, only in-line valves, must have a dual bore slide, etc...") then you run a great risk of missing out on trying (and perhaps buying) and instrument which may actually work better for you than the "latest and greatest." If you don't try with an open mind, then you'll never know. Think - try - think again - try again. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:11:37 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/4/01 11:24 PM, MasterCoda@aol.com at MasterCoda@aol.com sent forth into the cosmos: > Hi list, a while ago I asked about new horn suggestions because of my Bach 42 > BOG's failing rotor. And many thanks for all the advice. I'd like to pose > another question now: Out of all stock horns on the market, not considering > valve sound at all, which horn has the best, purest open sound? Do any horns > minimize the slight bend of air at the rotor section that most horns have? > I've seen that the Greenhoe valve does this, but overall (w/ or w/out a > Greenhoe valve) which horn, in your opinion (or another's if you must), has > the 'best' open sound? One final factor, no valve is NOT an option, though it > may be the best, there will be many times between now and after college that > I'll be playing third parts etc., so for the time being, let's stick w/ f > attachment horns. > Many thanks, > Peter Strenkowski > Principal Principle Trombonist, Taylor High School Wind Ensemble and Symphony > Orchestra. > Peter- Kevin Saunders has already answered pretty much the way I would have, but I do have an additional observation or two... There is (except for Yamaha, and the smaller "boutique" builders) a lot of inconsistancy in the manufacturing process, which leads to loads of variations in the way that a horn sounds/plays. Also, the individual player, mouthpiece, warmup, phase of the moon, wind direction/velocity, last night's dinner, etc. vary so much that blanket assumptions like "which is more open" are next to worthless. Recently, I went with a student to pick out a new horn, some variety of Bach 36B. (See, I'm not a "Yamaha uber alles" kind of guy...) We tried 6 different instruments with various things like gold brass vs. yellow brass bell, open wrap vs. closed, lightweight slide vs. normal (brass). Early on, we figured out that we liked the way a particular slide responded, no matter which bell we put it on. You wouldn't think they'd be different, same leadpipe/bore size, but they are! Then it was a matter of deciding which bell out of the 6 worked best with that slide. Conventional wisdom/marketing hype would have you think that the open wrap Thayer would be the best, most open. Well, it did play real free in the valve register, but the sound did NOT match the open horn. Neither did the conventional valve open wrap bells. We ended up liking the gold brass closed wrap bell the best. Go to a store, preferably with your private teacher, and try 1 or 2 of the models you're interested in. Once you find one that is leaning in the same direction as you are, then try a couple of horns of the same model. Swap bells and slides. (If the store won't let you swap, go somewhere else) Alternatively, over vacation, see if you can get your folks to take you to Edwards or Shires, where you can make yourself dizzy trying all sorts of options. (I wouldn't recommend trying EVERYTHING; you'll just get more confused! Limit your choices to fairly stock horns first, then once you've found a nice one, try an option on it to see how it changes. Realize also that what you like in the showroom, you may hate a year later.) Any listers in Texas got a good shop for Peter to go to? Walter Barrett Yamaha Artist/Clinician Tenor, Alto, Bass Trombones Euphonium Bass Trumpet Tuba ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:09:33 -0500 From: "Jen and Andy Walls" To: "Trombone-L List" Subject: Re: Required audition solo (was: Sachse) Message-ID: <00ae01c07731$2cbd9a20$4743e4ce@0016344132> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the suggestion about using New Orleans by Bozza. How about the T. Ritter George Concerto for Bass Trombone? Sometime as a joke it would be fun to ask my students to prepare Minstrel Man by T J Anderson for an audition? Okay so it's not a good audition piece. But it sure would be fun to watch them play bass trombone, high hat, and bass drum at the same time. I only saw (heard?) it once but it stole the show at the concert. I'm not sure if that was because it was musical or because of the showmanship involved?!?! Andy Walls ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Yeo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Required audition solo (was: Sachse) > OK, so, here's a question for the list: > > If YOU were making up an audition list for bass trombone and needed > to have a required solo on it, what would YOU put on it? > > -Doug Yeo > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > > ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:03:18 -0800 From: "Dennis Clason" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <004001c07739$668f9160$0d2b7b80@nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > All of this is just to say that life is full of practical > applications, and the right tool for the job will usually go a long > way to help ensure the job is done well. My first "work" involved helping out in my dad's cabinet shop. In that shop he had a table saw, a radial arm saw, a SkilSaw and a miter saw. All are variants of a circular power saw. Being a moderately bright eleven year old, I noticed that all these saws could (and sometimes did) use the same blades. So I asked why we needed all these different saws -- the blade does the work. Because dad's a pretty good teacher, he went to the stock pile and pulled out a piece of white pine and assigned me to make a picture frame using only the radial arm saw. It can be done, but using the right tool makes the job faster, easier, and more accurate. Point learned. The right tool can be essential to the job. If you want to play like Bobby Bookmeyer or Juan Tizol, it's hard to do with a sliphorn. Dennis P.S. re: Kotos -- my memory failed me. The koto is a little bit longer than I remembered. About twice as long as I thought I remembered. What's really funny is that my initial recollection was that the thing was about five or six feet long, but I discounted that because everything seems bigger to kids and I haven't seen one since I was an 8th grader in Hilo. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <20010105164252.87412.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- MasterCoda@aol.com wrote: > another question now: Out of all stock horns on the > market, not considering > valve sound at all, which horn has the best, purest > open sound? Peter, I'm sorry but you're simply not going to get a satisfactory answer to this question. Lots of people sound fantastic on a lot of different instruments. I happen to like Shires, but I also happen to live in Boston, an hour from the factory, and they have become very popular here. In another town, from another player, you're going to get a different answer. Your only solution is to try as many instruments as you can get hold of, and determine what best suits you and the "ideal sound" in your ear. And that's why I keep replying to your posts by urging you to keep playing your Bach for a few more years, and select a new instrument when your playing and that "ideal sound" are more developed. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:50:01 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <20010105165001.64480.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Kevin Saunders wrote: > Peter, and listers, > > Gary must have missed this one so I will try and > comment. The concept of > "open" is one of player perception, and the sound is > what the audience > hears. ETC..... BRAVO KEVIN!!! I don't think this has been said better in my memory. Gabe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:53:53 EST From: Harykoz@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <84.f9f7036.27875621@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/5/01 10:43:39 AM Central Standard Time, glangfur@yahoo.com writes: << And that's why I keep replying to your posts by urging you to keep playing your Bach for a few more years, and select a new instrument when your playing and that "ideal sound" are more developed. >> Exactly! (Remember, Peter is only a high school kid.) Peter, fix the valve. It will cost much less than what a new horn will cost. Besides, a Bach 42B is a great horn! Hary ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:08:07 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'wbarrett@bestweb.net'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter: Walter Barrett posted... "Any listers in Texas got a good shop for Peter to go to?" ======================= I didn't catch where in Texas you live, and that is important. It is not often appreciated that the State of Texas from Beaumont to El Paso (its width) is equal to approx. 1/3 the width of the U.S. and requires about 22-25 hours to cross. The good news is that San Antonio is pretty much in the middle so you'll only have to cross half of it on the average. :-). Anyway, one of the best ways to play many horns all at once in one setting would be to come to the Texas Music Educators Association (TMEA) Meeting in San Antonio this February from 7-10th. Most of the dealers will be represented and most times will have at least one of each model you might be interested. Check out their web site for more information on this meeting. http://dev.onr.com/tmea/ Also, there are many great performances during this week. Our own Wayne Dyess will be performing on the 9th February in the Bonetown Boys, a jazz trombone ensemble this year. Hope to see some of you there. Rick Marple San Antonio TX ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:11:22 -0500 From: "Gordon Bowie" To: Subject: Re: Required audition solo (was:Sachse) Message-ID: <00bf01c0773a$8807e080$4f5054d8@screamer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug Yeo asked: "OK, so, here's a question for the list: If YOU were making up an audition list for bass trombone and needed to have a required solo on it, what would YOU put on it?" In my estimation it depends on what group the audition is for: For a top level pro group? For a civic orchestra? For a college orchestra? All-state? For a very difficult and challenging piece, I like the Thom. Ritter George "Concerto" for Bass Trombone. But playing it musically it is beyond all but the most athletic bass trombonists because of its wide leaps and flexibility demands. The piano part is also sufficiently challenging that even the best accompanists have a struggle to bring it off, which limits its recital usefulness. (I can remember giving a performance of this piece in which the pianist got totally lost, but managed to "improvise" the last few pages of accompaniment and the audience never knew the difference, or at least they applauded wildly out of sheer excitement.) Great for a pro player but too tough for students in my estimation. So about 15 years ago I was on a campaign to find the right level of piece for an able bass trombone player that would be musically satisfying, not be so difficult as to overchallenge, yet have enough difficult spots that one could make the necessary distinctions between players at an audition. In 1989 I wrote a piece for just that purpose, "Concertpiece for Bass Trombone" which my Serendipity Press published in 1994 as "Concertpiece for Bass Trombone and Piano." It is available from Hickeys or other retailers, or at www.s-press.com One of the primary objectives was to make the piece fun to play for the player, and interesting and enjoyable for the listener. It makes extensive use of the valve register, pedals, octave and tenth leaps; requires and demonstrates a very clean tongue, with differences between staccato, marcato, legato, tenuto, and accents; has a legato cantabile section for emotional expression; and builds up to a brilliant fast ending. Low note:sub-pedal C. High note: Ab above the staff. Musically, Gordon ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:17:20 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Evolution pic Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010105101636.00a5b1c0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed After some months, I have found that "evolution picture" that I had thought was on the BTA site. The iteration I have just discovered is at http://www.casema.net/~aznl/sub3.htm Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:22:22 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: Harykoz@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, we are all wondering where you are going to put your trash can when you dump this Bach in it so we can pretend to be the trash collector and run away with the wonder with the wimpy valve. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:21:18 -0800 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Required audition solo (was: Sachse) Message-ID: <20010105.092119.-432515.1.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All the pieces suggested so far are great solos and recital pieces, but I think too long and, in many cases, too esoteric for the audition purpose. The exceptions possibly are the Lebedev (1st movement and cadenza) and the Sonata Breve (1st movement). Cello suites and tuba toots are fun to play, but come on, have a trombone player play a trombone solo. I recommend the 1st movement of the Spillman Concerto. A variety of stylistic passages (rhythmic and marcato, fluid and legato), a variety of range (F above the staff to pedal F), moderately difficult but obtainable, good demonstration of tone quality and intonation, and it sounds good without the accompaniment. If it is a contest rather than an audition, than a longer piece like the ones mentioned (New Orleans, Casterede, Siekmann Concerto, Ewazen, Wilder Sonata) would be more appropriate. Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:24:40 -0500 From: "Dyke, David" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Evolution pic Message-ID: <1D1A4EF7AD4DD211A80D00A0C9D7DB6605C53883@exna1.stratus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hummm.. I wounder if it's available in poster size some where ? -----Original Message----- From: Earl Needham [mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 12:17 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Evolution pic After some months, I have found that "evolution picture" that I had thought was on the BTA site. The iteration I have just discovered is at http://www.casema.net/~aznl/sub3.htm Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446m W103d 12.700m (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 12:36:09 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Great response, Kevin! I'll just add a few thoughts. Peter, since you are a high school player you are in a phase of great change in your playing and rapid improvement. If you search around now and find the "perfect horn" for you now, remember that your playing will change so much over the next few years that it may not be so 'perfect' when your playing has improved. A Bach 42B is a great 'mainstream' horn. One suggestion would be to keep it and save the big expenditure for a few years from now when your playing has had a chance to mature a bit. Then you and your college teacher can go find the ultimate trombone for you, if you want to spend the bucks. Send the 42B to a great repairman to make sure it is all it could be. Then live with it. Remember that there are countless excellent trombone players (like Bill Reichenbach and perhaps Doug Wright) who bought a plain vanilla horn off the shelf mail order in college and then used it for years and years. Pete Sullivan of the Pitts! burgh Symphony (formerly of the Montreal Symphony) has an old looking Conn and an old looking Bach (much like yours) that can only be described as 'beater' horns (they look horrid). He sounds fabulous on them. Also, to repeat something I've said on the list before, just because a horn is 'open' it doesn't mean that everyone will necessarily get a bigger, or richer or more vibrant tone on it. Sometimes I find that more open equipment seems bigger at first, but is really just more diffuse, and the sound doesn't go anywhere or have any colour to it. It just falls out of the bell and lies in a puddle on the floor by my feet. It might be too dull or dead for the way I like to play. It depends a lot on the player's way of going about playing the horn (especially the way they present the air to the horn) and their physical characteristics. For a player who is, to take one extreme, a brawny, physical player with loads of lung capacity, moving to more open equipment may give the player a greater sense of ease to their sound, because they won't be working so hard against the instrument. But other players may actually produce a smaller, or at least nastier, sound , if they use the same open eq! uipment. This person's embouchure may buzz most efficiently if there is a bit more 'cushion' to blow into because the equipment is relatively less open. If the equipment is too open for them, to get the same buzz happening, they may compensate some other way (unconsciously) with the air stream, such as closing the throat, raising the tongue, etc. The air stream then becomes thinnner and faster and the sound suffers. On relatively less open equipment, this player may have a slower, fatter air stream through the throat and oral cavity and therefore a bigger, more rich and vibrant sound. A friend of mine, who is a strong player with a big, vibrant sound told me about trying the bass trombone of a great player who had very open equipment (huge mouthpiece, no leadpipe). He said it took him three tries to even make a sound on this equipment. Way too open for how he liked to play and he didn't sound good on it. The other guy sure did though. The point is that more open equipment is only beneficial up to a point, and that point is different for each player. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:41:42 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: OTJ News & Events Sections Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" January always seems to be the perfect time to start planning spring, summer and fall activities. If you have any upcoming activities, make sure to visit the Online Trombone Journal's News and Events sections: The Sliding Times http://www.trombone.org/news/ If you have a new position, won a competition, have a new recording or are looking for trombone-related employment, this is the place! New information is added frequently, and you never know what might turn up. 'Bone Events http://www.trombone.org/events/ Have a clinic, masterclass, concert, recital, summer camp or other trombone-related activity coming up? Publicize it through the OTJ's 'Bone Events. Once your event is listed, you will have a bookmark-able web page to add to all of your mailings. For more information on these features, visit The Online Trombone Journal at http://www.trombone.org Chris -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:09:38 -0000 From: "Andy Lester" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Message-ID: <000e01c07742$e990c620$fa6b883e@freeserve.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C07742.AB012620" unsubscribe trombone-l ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:31:54 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <005901c07745$e02a6f20$08511a3f@pauljr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear trombone-l friends, I have spend some time following all of this discussion about the open horn sounds, and it is interesting to say the least. However, I feel compelled to add some advice along this line, as well as some observations. To clear the air first, I am most interested in trying Gary's valve. I have visited the website, and Kevin Saunder's work on it is absolutely first rate. I've had many conversations with Gary, and is a most accomodating and knowledgeable person. My intentions are to try Gary's valve when I go to the ITF in Nashville in May. I hope to see many of you there. As far as marketing is concerned, Gary has done it right. He has gotten some very big named players to endorse his valve. The reason that they endorse it is because they have tried in the trenches and it has performed for them. If the big leaguers don't like it, I really don't believe they'd endorse it. One thing that I've noticed in the past few years is that younger and younger players are playing better and better equipment. That's good. However, it would be foolish to say that unless you play THIS type of horn or THIS type of mouthpiece or THIS type of slide or THIS type of leadpipe or THIS type of bell or THIS type of valve that you just can't get the right sound. That's ludicrous and the real thinking population of this list knows that. I don't recommend any particular type of horn: there are some that I PREFER over others, but I think that we need to remember that the trombone is nothing more than a glorified piece of plumbing. I know one thing: I can pick up anything and sound like ME. If you're not to that point yet, better keep practicing. Here's a great example of what I'm talking about. Joe Alessi has had Greg Black make a series of mouthpieces for him. I'm here to tell you that they are HUGE, bigger than what the majority of tenor players are playing on. BUT THEY WORK FOR JOE ALESSI. Not only that but Greg's mouthpieces are expensive. Along with that, because of continuous abuse of his mouthpieces, there's a no-return policy. You've bought it-it's yours. If it doesn't work for you, then you have bought an pretty expensive paper weight. Before I go on, I just want to say that I'm all for the improvement that we have seen in our equipment. Improvements in our equipment will help our artistry to some degree. However, I contend that it will probably be the last few degrees or so. Something that my first teacher always stressed was that you should always stive to fix yourself FIRST. Trombones and accessories have gotten outrageously expensive--getting back to Gary's valve, go to his website and check out his prices. ( www.greenhoe.com ) They're not cheap. HOWEVER, QUALITY is always worth paying for. It's pretty easy to invest the best part of $3000 in a trombone these days. That's a lot of gigs for most of us. I think that the best advice has already been given--Always keep an open mind when trying new equipment. Have a definite idea in your head of what you want to sound like & what you want to improve & proceed slowly. ALWAYS try before you buy. And most of all remember that the biggest part of your improvement is going to be because of your efforts in the practice room. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony www.trbnplyr.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:30:55 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Fwd: Upcoming Texas Tour by Bonetown Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:25:12 -0600 To: Chris Waage From: Wayne Dyess Subject: Favor? Cc: bsyburg@umi-usa.com, KINGCONNRS@aol.com X-RCPT-TO: Status: U Hi Chris, Favor, por favor??? Could you send this update to the list for me? I'd appreciate it. THANKS, --Wayne cc: Bob Syburg, UMI (please let UMI know how VERY thankful we are, Bob). UPCOMING TEXAS TOUR BY BONETOWN (Michael Davis and Bill Reichenbach): ======================================================== Feb. 4th -- Memorial High School Auditorium/Houston Feb. 5th -- Lamar University Recital Hall/Beaumont Feb. 6th -- North Texas/Denton Feb. 7th -- University of Texas/Austin Feb. 8th -- University of Texas-San Antonio & The Landing/Bistro/Riverwalk/ San Antonio Feb. 9th -- TMEA: 8:00 a.m. convention clinic/concert/San Antonio Thanks to Trombone-L, we were able to fill in the needed dates and appearances to make the tour happen. I just wanted to say a big ole Texas-sized THANKS to trombone-L and wish you all a very HAPPY NEW YEAR. Following a severe computer crash, I am off the list for awhile until I can get some things sorted out. I have MUCH to do between now and the middle of February, I assure you. One more thing: Thanks also to the great folks at UMI for helping to make this tour happen. It couldn't and wouldn't were it not for UMI's generous support! Best wishes ya'll frum TEXAS!!!! --Wayne Dyess -- ========================= Lamar University P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu -- _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:32:14 -0600 From: Nancy Vogt To: Subject: RE: Sackbut, serpent, Schickele and more Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The best part was, each composer selected the instruments that the *other* one had to use. Hence the unusual (to say the least) ensembles. The result was hilarious. Nancy Vogt ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:05:06 -0600 From: yardlejw@uwec.edu To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: mouthpiece buzzing Message-ID: <97B60936DD4DD311A050002048403CFE053EFF47@chef.uwec.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain list, if you're wondering why this message contains no capitalized letters, it's because i'm typing with only my right hand. my friends and i tried snowboarding for the first time yesterday and i broke my left wrist when i fell for the 73rd time. i'm in a lot of pain, mostly because i can't play my trombone. i remember reading about how arnold jacobs was sick a lot and he did a lot of mouthpiece buzzing in the hospital. i'm sure there's a lot of you out there that have had to deal with taking a lot of time away from the horn. i would greatly appreciate any suggestions or exercises you know of to help me while i can't play the bone. i'm looking forward to your responses. thank you so much for your help. painfully yours, james "never snowboarding again" yardley ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:41:48 -0700 From: Steve Gamble To: "'yardlejw@uwec.edu'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: mouthpiece buzzing Message-ID: <01C07714.DF810600.orchpers@azstarnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OOOOWWW. Sorry about your wrist. While you recuperate, spend a lot of time on the breathing exercises. Breathing is the first thing to go when you take time off. If you don't have a breathing exercise routine, post that fact on the list and you'll get plenty of good advice. Also, for extended periods of buzzing many people recommend adding some length to the mouthpiece by inserting it in a piece of plastic tubing or something similar (a removable leadpipe works well) in order to make the resistance a little more like playing the trombone. (If the tube is too long, it will be more difficult to buzz all the pitches.) Buzz with the tuner on. And really try to express something musically or you'll get bored real quick. I hope you have a speedy recovery. Steve Gamble -----Original Message----- From: yardlejw@uwec.edu [SMTP:yardlejw@uwec.edu] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 12:05 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: mouthpiece buzzing list, if you're wondering why this message contains no capitalized letters, it's because i'm typing with only my right hand. my friends and i tried snowboarding for the first time yesterday and i broke my left wrist when i fell for the 73rd time. i'm in a lot of pain, mostly because i can't play my trombone. i remember reading about how arnold jacobs was sick a lot and he did a lot of mouthpiece buzzing in the hospital. i'm sure there's a lot of you out there that have had to deal with taking a lot of time away from the horn. i would greatly appreciate any suggestions or exercises you know of to help me while i can't play the bone. i'm looking forward to your responses. thank you so much for your help. painfully yours, james "never snowboarding again" yardley ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:43:02 -0500 From: Craig Parmerlee To: yardlejw@uwec.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: mouthpiece buzzing Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105143847.01f5b9d8@acticalc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:05 PM 1/5/2001 -0600, yardlejw@uwec.edu wrote: if you're wondering why this message contains no capitalized letters, it's because i'm typing with only my right hand. my friends and i tried snowboarding for the first time yesterday and i broke my left wrist i would greatly appreciate any suggestions or exercises you know of to help me while i can't play the bone. i'm looking forward to your responses. thank you so much for your help. Well, this isn't quite what you asked for, but if there is a little money available, maybe you could buy a Flugabone / Marching trombone. You can play that with only your right hand. If you don't play valves, you'll never have a better opportunity to learn. Considering that marching season is over, maybe a school would lend you one for a few weeks while your wrist heals. Maybe you could teach some sectionals or lessons to return that favor. Good luck, Craig, who shares your pain, having suffered a broken wrist and numerous finger breaks and sprains over the years. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:31:40 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: Evolution pic Message-ID: <001801c16638$e3d25a60$b770adc1@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Earl, you wrote: : After some months, I have found that "evolution picture" that I had : thought was on the BTA site. The iteration I have just discovered is at : http://www.casema.net/~aznl/sub3.htm In March last year already we had a little discussion about it and I sent this URL that you just discovered, to the list. I didn't keep all the posts, but I found this one: &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Michael To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: vrijdag 3 maart 2000 10:31 Subject: Musical Evolution : For a good laugh look at the 2000 ITF Faculty page: : http://www.casema.net/~aznl/sub3.htm : : Does anyone know where the evolution image comes from or : who has the copyright. I would love to have a t-shirt with : this but given how clever and well done it is I also want : to respect the artist. : : Andy Hello Andy, Try : http://www.casema.net/~aznl/pg3.htm There you'll find the (e-mail) address! Dick Sleeman, Lelystad, Holland. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Then, and now still, I have not been able to find the author or a poster size. I DID try to enhance it with a grafic program. If you're interested, write me directly. Ciao, Groeten uit Holland, Dick Sleeman, Lelystad. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:31:19 EST From: MMBNo1@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <5e.576e196.27878917@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing that I noticed when I bought my new horn (42B) was that I couldn't tell a great deal of difference when I played by myself on the horn, but when I played with another trombonist who was playing the large bore Yamaha model, I could tell the difference in sound. The same thing happened when I played with someone on a Blessing, etc. While trying the horns out (I went to Dillon's as a matter of convienence, but they are truly wonderful. I believe their webpage is www.dillonmusic.com, check it out), I had a hard time distinguishing the sound I was producing while playing the various horns. This may just be that my ear training skills are poor. The same held true when I played the Bach 50 with two thayers and compared it to a Bach 42B. The thayer valves were very nice, but out of my price range. I like the smoothess in all registers that the thayer had in between notes, where is sounded like a perfect slur. The standard rotors sometimes lack this ability, or at least aren't as good, IMHO. Just thought I'd add my experience, being it quite recent. doug ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:39:53 EST From: BJMCHAFFIE@aol.com To: yardlejw@uwec.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: mouthpiece buzzing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having an injury that prevented the use of the trombone for almost six months, I taught myself the euphonium.. Never have regretted it. My old trombone book had the fingering charts in it for euph and boy did I make use of them Sorry about the injury... hope that the pain subsides and you can get on with life. beldon wade ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:13:58 -0800 From: jimandcat@juno.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: yeo@yeodoug.com Subject: Re: crescendo-decrescendo exercises Message-ID: <20010105.131400.-432515.2.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu 4 Jan 2001 14:16:27 -0500 Douglas Yeo wrote: >>>The best book of warm up exercises I've seen, with sensible commentary and myriad ways of making them be useful is Roger Bobo's book, "Mastering the Tuba, Volume 1" published by Editions BIM. The book is in treble clef, hence useful for all brasses. He spends several pages on crescendo/decresc exercises, modifications of Stamp exercises, and much more. His written commentary is excellent.<<< I haven't seen that book specifically, but having studied with Stamp I bet it's good. The Stamp exercise (the long one) incorporates cres/dim into it very effectively. It's too difficult to explain completely but it has to do with the alternation of range (low-high-low-high, etc.), with long tones in melodic lines, and faster rhythms as well. I think this approach is one of the best as it works with the intonation of octaves, arpeggios, and register changes at the same time it works with extreme dynamics. Stamp was very insistent that his exercises be absolutely in tune, slightly low-center of pitch (he would play them on the piano while you matched pitch, whether buzzing or playing), and that they be equally easy in any dynamic or register. Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:42:18 -0800 (PST) From: Gabriel Langfur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: mouthpiece buzzing Message-ID: <20010105214218.8115.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Craig Parmerlee wrote: > Well, this isn't quite what you asked for, but if > there is a little money > available, maybe you could buy a Flugabone / > Marching trombone. You can > play that with only your right hand. If you don't > play valves, you'll > never have a better opportunity to learn. Or a euphonium, which would be a better career-enhancer. Gabe "wishes he played valves" Langfur __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:46:59 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Bass Trombone for sale Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" When I walked into Symphony Hall this afternoon, a gentleman was waiting for me (no, I didn't owe him money!) to let me know he had a bass trombone for sale. I'm not in the market, but I did play the horn for a few minutes and found it to play nicely, it's in excellent condition, original case (also excellent condition), slide in good shape, etc. If you're interested in a good bass trombone for all around use, here are the details, or pass the world to someone you know who might be interested (please contact the seller, not me - disclaimer: I'm posting this to help him sell the horn, I don't get a finder's fee!): Yamaha YBL322R Bass Trombone (single valve) Serial number 203057 Red brass bell Asking $1000 (OBO - make an offer) Contact: Stephen Podgorski (owner of the horn) sjpodgorski@aol.com 413/596-4864 (Springfield, MA area) ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:42:50 -0500 From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Evolution pic Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As it turns out, I've got another image in the spirit of the one udner discussion, this one courtesy of Mr. Lukas about a year ago. It's titled "The Evolution of Band", and although it's simpler than this delightful other one, it nonetheless brings a smile to the face of any trombonist who sees it. For all interested, I'll forward a copy, and I'm sure Ernie will too. -Aaron Roth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:53:07 From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html When I wanted a "more open sound" I found that my preference was to use a heavier instrument with a heavier slide. They gave me a more solid, resonant sound. To my surprise, Iāve found that many of the Bueschers were built out of heavier tubing, just the way I like them. Itās a pleasant surprise, too, because I can buy them as junkers, off of ebay, for close to nothing. I suppose that will change, now that Iāve let the cat out of the bag, but I already own a few of them, so I guess itās OK (until I learn to play more than one trombone at a time, that is). DanP Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:11:42 -0600 From: "William Huber" To: "trombone-l" Subject: Euphonium Rental in Phoenix, AZ Message-ID: <200101060208.VAA05509@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Phoenix Listers, Does anyone know a place in Phoenix where I can rent a euphonium for a few days? I need something for practicing while I'm there for five days. Luggage restrictions prevent me from taking my own (too much stuff as it is). The horn can be three or four valves, compensating or not, small shank or large --- just something I can use to practice finger choreography. If you wish, you may send any information to my home address to avoid clogging the list. Thank-You In Advance, Bill Huber ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:08:51 -0500 From: "Roger Carmichael" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: <005701c0778e$00798840$56e91c3f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just received the new Greenhoe valve section and find it to be the best and most open of the other valve sections I have tried. My rankings are: 1) Greenhoes (newest design) 2) Thayers 3) Yamaha YBL613 conventional rotors 4) Bach 42B (early 70's) 5) Olds S-22 single rotor (early 70's) Roger Carmichael ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:55:00 -0500 From: "Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Open Horn Sounds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII You aren't going to like my answer to this. You aren't going to like my answer to this at all but. . .as far as pure sound concept for ME, I love the Bach 42. While I'll swear by my Shires bass, which is probably way better than I deserve to be playing, I haven't found a tenor I like better than the 42. For me, the perfect tenor would probably be a yellow brass bell Bach 42 with a Greenhoe valve and standard slide. If you're looking for a different sound concept (especially being in Texas, I know Conns are big down there), try everything. If you're looking for a better horn. . .sorry to say, there isn't one. It may need a little work, but I'd stick with the horn you have. Want proof? Go buy the NY philharmonic recording of Mahler 3 under Bernstein. Listen to Joe Alessi play the 1st trombone solos. That was before he played the Edwards horn he does now. Same with his CD "Slide Area." Personally, I like his sound better then on the Bach than more recent recordings I've heard of him on the Edwards. That's just opinion, but you get my point. 300 bucks to fix a clunky valve may seem a bit steep, but at worst it'll be your second string horn for the rest of your life, if you so choose. Just some thoughts to chew on, Joshua On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:24:56 EST MasterCoda@aol.com wrote: > Hi list, a while ago I asked about new horn suggestions because of my > Bach 42 BOG's failing rotor. And many thanks for all the advice. I'd > like to pose another question now: Out of all stock horns on the > market, not considering valve sound at all, which horn has the best, > purest open sound? Do any horns minimize the slight bend of air at the > rotor section that most horns have? I've seen that the Greenhoe valve > does this, but overall (w/ or w/out a Greenhoe valve) which horn, in > your opinion (or another's if you must), has the 'best' open sound? One > final factor, no valve is NOT an option, though it may be the best, > there will be many times between now and after college that I'll be > playing third parts etc., so for the time being, let's stick w/ f > attachment horns. Many thanks, > Peter Strenkowski Principal Principle Trombonist, Taylor High School > Wind Ensemble and Symphony Orchestra. ---------- Joshua A. Sticklor-Lipson Bass trombone, James Madison University Bass trombone, Marching Royal Dukes ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:08:28 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: yardlejw@uwec.edu Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: mouthpiece buzzing Message-ID: <200101060610.BAA04882@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:05 PM 1/5/01 -0600, you wrote: >list, > >if you're wondering why this message contains no capitalized letters, it's because i'm typing with only my right hand. my friends and i tried snowboarding for the first time yesterday and i broke my left wrist when i fell for the 73rd time. i'm in a lot of pain, mostly because i can't play my trombone. i remember reading about how arnold jacobs was sick a lot and he did a lot of mouthpiece buzzing in the hospital. i'm sure there's a lot of you out there that have had to deal with taking a lot of time away from the horn. i would greatly appreciate any suggestions or exercises you know of to help me while i can't play the bone. i'm looking forward to your responses. thank you so much for your help. > >painfully yours, >james "never snowboarding again" yardley ======================= James... Learn Euphonium or valve trombone or tuba...you can figure out a way to prop them up w/out great stress on the left hand. Be careful doing just m'pce practice w/out relating it to your horn for a long period of time unless you are an EXCELLENT player already...9 times out of 10 it will change the way your embouchure works on the horn, and not necessarily for the better. You might be better off just laying off playing entirely until you can play again. Study keyboard harmony or ear training/sight singing instead. Good luck... S. ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:31:47 -0800 From: "Dilshad Kasmani" To: "Trombone-L" , Subject: TMEA Message-ID: <048501c0775f$1170d6a0$8119fea9@zrrs1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will anyone from the Houston area be trekking up to San Antonio for TMEA? Drop me a note if you are interested in car pooling or caravanning. Also, does anyone have an itinerary for the weekend's events. Their website only has information on the 2000 TMEA. Thanks. Dilshad Kasmani ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:55:14 -0600 From: "Douglas A. Rowe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: St. Olaf Orchestra Tour Message-ID: <3A56CF62.8623F7C8@stolaf.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the tour schedule for the St. Olaf Orchestra, an ensemble in which I am a proud member, along with fellow member Dave Iverson. They will be excellent concerts, and both Dave and I hope that we have the opportunity to meet some of our fellow listers. Any questions about dates or concert information, reply to me off list, and I'd be glad to provide more information. The program is: Rossini Thieving Magpie Hovhaness (Marimba soloist, I can't recall the name of the work) Weber Bassoon Concerto Forsberg Canzone de Cento Strauss Death and Transfiguration Respighi The Pines of Rome Tuesday, January 30, 2001 B. J. Haan Auditorium Dordt College Sioux Center, Iowa 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 712-722-1136 Wednesday, January 31, 2001 City Auditorium McCook, Nebraska 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 308-345-6510 Thursday, February 1, 2001 Bethany Lutheran Church 4500 E. Hampden Ave. Englewood, Colorado 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 303-758-2820 Friday, February 2, 2001 Popejoy Hall, University of New Mexico Albuquerque, New Mexico 7:30 p.m. Tickets available from UNM Ticket Office For ticket information call: 505-277-3123 Saturday, February 3, 2001 Mingus Union High School Auditorium Cottonwood, Arizona 7:30 p.m. Tickets available from Cottonwood Chamber of Commerce For ticket information call: 520-634-7593 Sunday, February 4, 2001 Phoenix Symphony Hall Phoenix, Arizona 3:00 p.m. Tickets available from Civic Plaza Box Office, For ticket information call: 602-262-7272 Monday, February 5, 2001 First Baptist Church El Paso, Texas 7:30 p.m. Tickets available from Kurland-Salzman Music Stores, Capshaw-Olivas Music Stores, and First Baptist Church For ticket information call: 915-533-1465 ext. 21 Thursday, February 8, 2001 First Baptist Church (combined concert with the St. Olaf Choir) San Antonio Texas 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 254-752-6911 Friday, February 9, 2001 Bethany First Church of the Nazarene Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 405-947-4321 Saturday, February 10, 2001 White Concert Hall, Washburn University Topeka, Kansas 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 785-231-1010 ext. 1511 Tuesday, February 13, 2001 Home Concert Skoglund Auditorium, St. Olaf College Northfield, Minnesota 8:00 p.m. Free Performance dug -- ______________________________________________ Douglas A. Rowe Bass Trombone rowed@stolaf.edu **************************************** "Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others." -Robert Louis Stevenson ***************************************** http://www.stolaf.edu/people/rowed/ _________________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914 Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:17:52 -0600 From: "Douglas A. Rowe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: TMEA Performances Message-ID: <3A56D4B0.47666B46@stolaf.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The St. Olaf Orchestra, of which fellow lister David Iverson and myself are both members, is performing at the TMEA convention on Thursday, February 8th. There will be two concerts that day, one for TMEA members only. The info: 11:30 AM - 12:20 PM LILA COCKRELL THEATER The second will be a joint concert that evening with the St. Olaf Choir: First Baptist Church San Antonio Texas 7:30 p.m. For ticket information call: 254-752-6911 Dave and I are greatly looking forward to meeting some of our trombone-l friends at this convention. We hope you can make one or both of the performances. dug -- ______________________________________________ Douglas A. Rowe Bass Trombone rowed@stolaf.edu **************************************** "Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others." -Robert Louis Stevenson ***************************************** http://www.stolaf.edu/people/rowed/ _________________________________________________ ----__ListProc__NextPart____TROMBONE-L__digest_1914--