TROMBONE-L Digest 1767

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Topeka audition...
	by Chris Waage <chris@trombone.org>
  2) Anti-gliss
	by Matmutt@aol.com
  3) Conn slide interchangeability question
	by Peter Soukup <psoukup@mindspring.com>
  4) Altissimo partials (was Re: Anti-gliss)
	by sabutin@mindspring.com
  5) Re: Software & Impossible glissandos
	by Craig Parmerlee <craig@acticalc.com>
  6) Marching Lyre
	by Peter Soukup <psoukup@mindspring.com>
  7) RE: Marching Lyre
	by "Andrew Elms" <elmsandr@msu.edu>
  8) Re: Conn slide interchangeability question
	by sabutin@mindspring.com
  9) Re: Marching Lyre
	by "Frank Doting" <afdoting@nccn.net>
 10) Re: More on 'single-valver' recommendations
	by sabutin@mindspring.com
 11) RE: Topeka audition...
	by "Daniel Sniderman" <fuzzbone@mail.dsl.telocity.com>
 12) Re: Conn slide interchangeability question
	by Candice & Eric Swanson <swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net>
 13) Re: Conn slide interchangeability question
	by David Oliver <dcoliver@accessnetusa.com>
 14) Jimmy Pankow
	by "Dean  McCarty" <bassbone@exp.net>
 15) Re: Impossible glissandos/valve
	by "Aaron Roth" <bassrange@hotmail.com>
 16) [Fwd: Re: Conn slide interchangeability question]
	by Richard L Corliss <rcorliss@astound.net>
 17) (no subject)
	by Tuckertbn@aol.com
 18) RE: Marching Lyre
	by Roger Karren <rkarren@sorensontech.com>
 19) RE: Marching Lyre
	by Roger Karren <rkarren@sorensontech.com>
 20) Re: Marching Lyre
	by E P Lukas <paulel9@bellsouth.net>
 21) Topeka Symphony Wages
	by Chris Waage <chris@trombone.org>
 22) Re: Trigger usage
	by Randy Campora <campora@peabody.jhu.edu>
 23) Re: Trigger usage
	by Craig Parmerlee <craig@acticalc.com>
 24) Re: Trigger usage
	by Tbcwes@aol.com
 25) Re:Trigger usage
	by sabutin@mindspring.com
 26) Re: Trigger usage
	by Craig Parmerlee <craig@acticalc.com>
 27) Leadpipe
	by "Rod Ellard" <ellard@sprint.ca>
 28) New mp3 file
	by "Nick Drozdoff" <ndrozdof@interaccess.com>
 29)  Re:Trigger usage
	by "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:08:48 -0500
From: Chris Waage <chris@trombone.org>
To: Trombone-L <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Topeka audition...
Message-ID: <v04220801b5b1c2571df2@[24.29.189.30]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

<x-flowed>Hmmmm . . .

Free beer?  In the home state of Carrie Nation?

;-)

Chris

>At 03:22 PM 8/4/00 -0500, Daniel Sniderman wrote:
>>I'm getting $50 AND Free Beer for Big Band Gigs!
>
>That does it.  If the Topeka job doesn't have free beer I'm not auditioning.

_________________________________________
Chris Waage            chris@trombone.org
            Associate Webmaster
        The Online Trombone Journal
          http://www.trombone.org

</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 09:12:46 EDT
From: Matmutt@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Anti-gliss
Message-ID: <a.89e7d6.26bd6cce@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Yup;
   Last Monday someone asked Glenn Dodson where to play a G# above treble F .
He nailed a perfect G# in first position and then took the slide to sixth 
position and back with no discernable variance in the note.  " Play it 
anywhere you want" He said, with a smile. Apparently somewhere around high F 
the sound wavelength becomes so short that the length of the horn becomes a 
negligible factor.

          Larry Priori ( the passionate amateur)


 <<>>

From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 08:44:49 -0500
From: Peter Soukup <psoukup@mindspring.com>
To: Trombone-L List <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Conn slide interchangeability question
Message-ID: <B5B18480.2212%psoukup@mindspring.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hey list!

Will a slide from a .525 bore Conn trombone fit on a .500 bore Conn
trombone?

I am looking at the several 77Hs and Connquests on ebay to get for use as a
backup slide for my 10H.

Pete Soukup
psoukup@mindspring.com
Grand Avenue Big Band
The Moonlighters
The Houndz
St. Andrew's Brass
Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
West Suburban Symphony (alternate)


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:53:55 -0400
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: Matmutt@aol.com
Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Altissimo partials (was Re: Anti-gliss)
Message-ID: <200008051354.JAA18731@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:12 AM 8/5/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Yup;
>   Last Monday someone asked Glenn Dodson where to play a G# above treble F .
>He nailed a perfect G# in first position and then took the slide to sixth 
>position and back with no discernable variance in the note.  " Play it 
>anywhere you want" He said, with a smile. Apparently somewhere around high F 
>the sound wavelength becomes so short that the length of the horn becomes a 
>negligible factor.
>
>          Larry Priori ( the passionate amateur)
>
=======================

   No. Equipment that favors that range has discernible slots for every
partial, up to and including the 20th partial  (C# above double Bb in 1st
position). It gets eccentric up there, but the partials exist.

   Most  m'pce/leadpipe/horn combos, however, do NOT favor that range,
because of relatively undesirable alterations of the playing
characteristics in the REST of the ranges.

  I have played several m'pce/leadpipe/horn combinations that were
amazingly well balanced up there...Dave Steinmeyer's in particular. The
REAL miracle of Steinmeyer's playing, in my opinion, is not that he can
play so fluently in extreme registers (which, of course, is in itself an
achievement), but that, on the equipment he plays (a very lightweight
Martin Urbie Green model w/a small custom m'pce made by a friend of his) he
can sound like a trombone in the rest of the ranges. 

   I suspect Glenn was playing mainstream orchestral equipment when he did
his G# trick. By a combination of embouchure strength and/or embouchure
adjustment, notes in that range can be played by a strong player even on a
tuba.

   Making MUSIC up there...that's a whole 'nother question. Listen to
Steinmeyer or Kiril Ribarski or Britt Woodman...you can HEAR the partials
above high F...and I'll GUARANTEE they're not playing .547 equipment or a
5G or larger m'pce.

   Later...

   S.


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:11:25 -0500
From: Craig Parmerlee <craig@acticalc.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Software & Impossible glissandos
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000805090632.00ad9b60@acticalc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

<x-flowed>At 08:10 AM 8/5/00 +0100, Adrian Drover wrote:
>Sibelius has in-built default ranges for each of its instruments.  I find it
>a pain in the butt.  The earlier versions used to set off a referee whistle
>in the middle of play-back if you defied its judgement.  Now thankfully, it
>just paints such notes in red.  Good job I have a monochrome printer.  The
>problem is, that Sibelius believes the trombone cannot play any higher than
>8th harmonic, the lowest note on bass trombone is pedal E, baritone saxes
>have no low A, the lowest note on all bass clarinets is Eb.  It's a good job
>I didn't use Sibelius when I was writing for Maynard.  It outlaws the top
>octave and a 5th of his range.

I imagine that could be annoying.  But I really appreciate the range 
checkers to catch my mistakes -- often on the saxes and string 
bass.  Finale has a plug-in that you run explicitly to check the passages 
you want to verify.  It comes with a data base that has 3 ranges per 
instrument: beginner, intermediate, and advanced.  Plus you can edit that 
data base for special cases like Maynard.

I'm trying to learn Sibelius these days.  Whereas Finale requires the user 
to do 'most everything explicitly, Sibelius seems to want to take a lot of 
the decisions out of your hands.  I'm not convinced which philosophy is 
better yet.
CP


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:18:38 -0500
From: Peter Soukup <psoukup@mindspring.com>
To: Trombone-L List <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Marching Lyre
Message-ID: <B5B18C6E.2215%psoukup@mindspring.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Me again.

Here's my next question.  I agreed to a marching gig (what was I thinking)
where he wants us to play our .547s.  Is there any better way to hold them
little charts besides the crappy thing that scratches your mouthpiece
receiver?

Should I just try to memorize the charts?  Never mind, there are 9 of them.

I heard that those flute under arm things can work.  Anybody have anything
else to suggest?

Pete Soukup
psoukup@mindspring.com
Grand Avenue Big Band
The Moonlighters
The Houndz
St. Andrew's Brass
Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
West Suburban Symphony (alternate)


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:13:22 -0400
From: "Andrew Elms" <elmsandr@msu.edu>
To: <psoukup@mindspring.com>,
        "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Marching Lyre
Message-ID: <NEBBKHMNMLCPBAAFAFMMIEBBCEAA.elmsandr@msu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<x-charset iso-8859-1>WW&BW has a lyre that clamps onto the bell.  If you use great care, you
don't even have to scratch the bell (it has little rubber guards).  I would,
myself, just memorize the charts.

Later,
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
[mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Peter Soukup
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:19 AM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: Marching Lyre


Me again.

Here's my next question.  I agreed to a marching gig (what was I thinking)
where he wants us to play our .547s.  Is there any better way to hold them
little charts besides the crappy thing that scratches your mouthpiece
receiver?

Should I just try to memorize the charts?  Never mind, there are 9 of them.

I heard that those flute under arm things can work.  Anybody have anything
else to suggest?

Pete Soukup
psoukup@mindspring.com
Grand Avenue Big Band
The Moonlighters
The Houndz
St. Andrew's Brass
Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
West Suburban Symphony (alternate)


</x-charset>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 10:22:28 -0400
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: psoukup@mindspring.com
Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Conn slide interchangeability question
Message-ID: <200008051423.KAA05569@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:44 AM 8/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey list!
>
>Will a slide from a .525 bore Conn trombone fit on a .500 bore Conn
>trombone?
>
>I am looking at the several 77Hs and Connquests on ebay to get for use as a
>backup slide for my 10H.
>
>Pete Soukup
===================

   No.

   You can have the receivers altered, but you'd best make sure the slides
and bells on the two horns are about the same length...different Conns have
different proportions...or you'll have a horn that's hard to tune.

   S.


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:10:26 -0700
From: "Frank Doting" <afdoting@nccn.net>
To: "trombone list" <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>, <psoukup@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Marching Lyre
Message-ID: <002201bffeef$90d9e0a0$5cdf4fd1@hkys5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<x-charset iso-8859-1>Take a look at the DEG Music Product (trombone lyre #HC250.  It is a plastic
flip chart gadget that attaches to the bell rim.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Soukup" <psoukup@mindspring.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 7:18 AM
Subject: Marching Lyre


> Me again.
>
> Here's my next question.  I agreed to a marching gig (what was I thinking)
> where he wants us to play our .547s.  Is there any better way to hold them
> little charts besides the crappy thing that scratches your mouthpiece
> receiver?
>
> Should I just try to memorize the charts?  Never mind, there are 9 of
them.
>
> I heard that those flute under arm things can work.  Anybody have anything
> else to suggest?
>
> Pete Soukup
> psoukup@mindspring.com
> Grand Avenue Big Band
> The Moonlighters
> The Houndz
> St. Andrew's Brass
> Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
> DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
> West Suburban Symphony (alternate)


</x-charset>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 11:26:08 -0400
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: Gabriel Langfur <langfur@mail.com>
Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: More on 'single-valver' recommendations
Message-ID: <200008051526.LAA18547@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:03 PM 8/3/00 -0400, you wrote:
>S.,
>
>If I may defend my position choices a little here at the risk of sounding
defensive - I do use the f-valve for notes other than C & B, and I've read
your articles on slide technique, which I found very valuable. In fact,
when I suggested to a particularly good student that he would do well to
use the far end of his slide more (he plays a large-bore straight horn -
yes, they do still exist), he came back the next week having learned an
entire Rochut etude - one of the more intricate ones, from book two -
entirely in fourth position and farther. Cool, huh? Did wonders for his
flexibility and intonation (which were already pretty good) in addition to
adding a whole world of position options. 
>
>I was referring to a specific awkward passage in the Charlie Small
"Conversation": E-B flat-D flat-F, upwards, quite fast (64th notes at about
quarter=56, I think). On my old independent horn I would play them
alternating the first & second valve for the E and D-flat, starting in
second & playing the rest of the line in first position. Worked fine, took
some practicing to have the valve action fast enough and smooth enough for
a smooth legato. When I bought a new horn, I had just played the piece, so
it was fresh in my mind, and when I was deciding which valve section to buy
I tried the passage and found that it came out even cleaner on the
dependent section by starting in valve second for the E, then open B-flat,
then fifth D-flat, then sixth F. The horn was (and still is) so even from
the close positions to the far that it felt better and less disruptive to
play it that way than to slam down valves as fast as I could. The same
evenness of response was not apparent in independent Thayer setups.

====================

   I didn't mean to sound aggressive in my post, nor do you sound
defensive. W/out knowing the specifics here...first of all, in what octave
these notes are, and second, what horns and trigger systems you are and
were playing...I can't comment on your choices.

   Except...if it works for you, use it.

   If, however, this passage starts on the E 1 line below the bass
clef...why not play the E in F trigger 2cd position, the Bb in F trigger
3rd, the Db in open 5th and the F in open 6th? This is a straight line
movement of the slide, one trigger movement, adjacent partials...a perfect
setup.

   S.

>Now that I'm jogged to think about it a little more, though, I might as
well try E in seventh, then B-flat on the valve, then as before. It'll
probably work just as well.
>
>Cheers,
>Gabe
>
>------Original Message------
>From: sabutin@mindspring.com
>To: langfur@mail.com
>Sent: August 3, 2000 7:50:15 PM GMT
>Subject: Re: More on 'single-valver' recommendations
>
>
>At 03:30 PM 8/3/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>Not to beat the horse too much here, but I actually found that there was
>so much difference in response that I could play, for example, a slur
>between B-flat & D-flat (in the staff) in the middle of a quick passage
>much more cleanly from 1st to 5th position on the dependent setup than from
>1st to flat 1st on the G-flat valve. Now maybe this has as much to do with
>my particular chops and finger dexterity as it does with the design of the
>horn, but that was enough to sell me! The dependent setup just makes the
>whole instrument play better - not just the valve register. My horn
>responds much more evenly out farther on the slide than it does if I put an
>independent Thayer section on it.
>>
>>Gabe
>
>==============
>
>   This points out a common problem among valve players...one valve or two,
>dependent or independent.
>
>   Why on earth, w/even ONE F valve, would you have to go from B-flat &
>D-flat in the staff quickly using 1st and 5th positions?

>
>   So many players only use the F trigger in that range for C + B...even
>GOOD players. I've never understood why.
>
>   The trigger Bb and A, at LEAST, are just as good as the C + B, and SO
>many passages are simplified beyond measure by the utilization of those
>notes in those positions. It is beyond me why more people don't use them.
>
>   I actually use C below middle C in 6th and Bb in trigger 3rd by
>choice...keeps me out in the middle of the slide, where I have more
>options, and enables me to tune the F trigger so I have a really good low C
>when I need it, albeit at the expense of the 1st position trigger F at the
>bottom of the bass clef (and sometimes, on some horns, the 1st position
>trigger C above it, too). 
>
>   (This practice also negates some of the advantages of a G slide as well.)
>
>   S.
>
>.............................................................
>voted #1 search engine! http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? 
>.............................................................
> 


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:33:52 -0500
From: "Daniel Sniderman" <fuzzbone@mail.dsl.telocity.com>
To: "Trombone List" <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Topeka audition...
Message-ID: <NEBBJCKHALGIDBNMAFFLEEGMCFAA.fuzzbone@mail.dsl.telocity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<x-charset iso-8859-1>I agree - and if they only offer two free beers per night - counter-offer
half-price (and make sure they don't close the bar right after the gig is
over!)

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
[mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Craig Parmerlee
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 6:31 PM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: RE: Topeka audition...


At 03:22 PM 8/4/00 -0500, Daniel Sniderman wrote:
>I'm getting $50 AND Free Beer for Big Band Gigs!

That does it.  If the Topeka job doesn't have free beer I'm not auditioning.



</x-charset>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 10:44:25 -0500
From: Candice & Eric Swanson <swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Conn slide interchangeability question
Message-ID: <398C3658.1382EC74@worldnet.att.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Peter Soukup wrote:

> Will a slide from a .525 bore Conn trombone fit on a .500 bore Conn
> trombone?
>
> I am looking at the several 77Hs and Connquests on ebay to get for use as a
> backup slide for my 10H.
>

Pete,

No, the .525" bore horns have a different receiver than the small (.485
&.500") horns.  However, the 77H Connquests that I am familiar with, from the
1960s-70s, are .500 bore so the slide may work.  Now, we have been through
this a while back, and several people have said that there was a later horn
called the 77H that was .525" bore (which I haven't seen) so it may not work
if it is one of these.  If you can find out the bore of the 77H in question or
when it was made (serial number) we may be able to all pitch in and figure it
out.  I wish they wouldn't recycle those damn numbers!

Eric Swanson


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:41:32 -0700
From: David Oliver <dcoliver@accessnetusa.com>
To: psoukup@mindspring.com
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Conn slide interchangeability question
Message-ID: <398C43BB.AA3B84D3@accessnetusa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Be careful Pete. I bought a mid 70's 77H from ebay because the seller thought
it was .525", but it was a "normal" .500 bore. I've yet to see a .525" 77H, but
a couple of folks on the list in the past say they exist.
The difference between a .525" and .500" is obvious when holding up the inner
slide tube assemblies and comparing. You should have any seller do this just to
be sure.

I believe I could easily swap slide assy's between my '58 6H and '72 77H, both
.500 horns. They are very similar. I don't remember any tuning problems, but
that was a while ago.

It sounds like you want to have a .500" bore slide anyway, so the 77H slide
assy should fit the bill. Eric Swanson would be a good final source on this
question. I don't think that Eric has seen a .525" bore 77H either. I remember
him noting way back that the 6H and 77H share many components.

(Note: I used to own the 48H that Richard Corliss now owns, and I don't
remember its slide assy being very interchangeable, even though it is .500
bore. The 48H's had special narrow lighweight slides.)

David Oliver
Broomfield, Colorado  USA
Trombone, Denver Concert Band
DCB Trombone Quartet & Brass Choir

P.S. If it doesn't work out, you'd have a decent horn to sell to a deserving
beginner.

Peter Soukup wrote:

> Hey list!
>
> Will a slide from a .525 bore Conn trombone fit on a .500 bore Conn
> trombone?
>
> I am looking at the several 77Hs and Connquests on ebay to get for use as a
> backup slide for my 10H.
>
> Pete Soukup
> psoukup@mindspring.com
> Grand Avenue Big Band
> The Moonlighters
> The Houndz
> St. Andrew's Brass
> Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
> DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
> West Suburban Symphony (alternate)


From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:57:09 -0500
From: "Dean  McCarty" <bassbone@exp.net>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum" <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Jimmy Pankow
Message-ID: <006001bffef5$d10a0280$41c12bcf@compaqcomputer>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey all:&nbsp; I went to see Chicago last night 
just north of Houston... Man, Pankow is still really on!&nbsp; Beginnings was 
just outstanding, and they did an acoustic version of "Another Rainy Day in New 
York City" where Robert Lamm was on Piano, Pankow on solo trombone, and their 
drummer on congas... it was great!&nbsp; If you get a chance to go see Chicago 
do it... one of the best mixed concerts that I've ever been to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dean McCarty</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>freelance trombonist, Houston 
area</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:33:13 GMT
From: "Aaron Roth" <bassrange@hotmail.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Impossible glissandos/valve
Message-ID: <F12dcx3Vp20N39x6HHG000001d6@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

<x-flowed>If you've got a valve you can throw with your whole forearm (like some 
Thayers) then there's lots of room for great half-valve effects.  In fact, 
I've isolated a nonstandard "harmonic" series achieved through my F side 
half-valving.  It's pretty wacky, and it sounds like an elephant with a 
bucket mute, but it's easy to gliss across.  Walter Barrett mentioned 
pulling a lip back to do a buzz-gliss; where I am we use the top lip rather 
than the bottom lip (maybe for the Chavez Trombone Concerto, even) but the 
principal is identical.  Works best for fast glisses, I find.
  By the way, I heard this chamber piece by Chavez (I think the name 
contained the word soli and a number) where the trombone had this 
written-out glissando from low E to at least a high Bb.  The player did just 
that, with his/her slide.  Gliss up, jump back out to 7, gliss up, jump out 
to 6, gliss up, out to 5, etc.  The breaks were noticeable but not too 
jarring.
  Well, back into my closet....
                                           -Aaron Roth
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:10:14 -0500
From: Richard L Corliss <rcorliss@astound.net>
To: Trombone-l mailing <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Conn slide interchangeability question]
Message-ID: <398C4A76.F6FAB54@astound.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


David Oliver wrote:

> (Note: I used to own the 48H that Richard Corliss now owns, and I don't
> remember its slide assy being very interchangeable, even though it is .500
> bore. The 48H's had special narrow lighweight slides.)
>
> David Oliver

For a while I used the 48h slide with a 6h and have been
using it for a while with
a 4h. The 6h, 48h, and 4hs all seem to have interchangeable
parts.

Richard Corliss

From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:22 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:56:29 EDT
From: Tuckertbn@aol.com
To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <75.7e28438.26bdbd5d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>Hey all:  I went to see Chicago last night just north of Houston... Man, 
Pankow is still really on!  Beginnings was just outstanding, and they did an 
acoustic version of "Another Rainy Day in New York City" where Robert Lamm 
was on Piano, Pankow on solo trombone, and their drummer on congas... it was 
great!  If you get a chance to go see Chicago do it... one of the best mixed 
concerts that I've ever been to.

Dean McCarty
freelance trombonist, Houston area>>


I agree completely about Pankow.  He is truly an inspirational player and 
performer.  However,  I have seen them twice in the past year, and the mix 
was AWFUL!  Of course, I saw them both times at casinos.  I would love to 
hear them somewhere with a decent mix.

Craig Tucker
Mississippi Symphony Orchestra

From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:14:52 -0600 
From: Roger Karren <rkarren@sorensontech.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Marching Lyre
Message-ID: <6E031E06378BD311AEF20090273CE1BA6EF4B2@el-postino.s-vision.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<x-charset iso-8859-1>>From a former Marine Corps Musician who marched for 15 years...

Just put a a piece of electrician's tape around the Mouthpiece receiver,
(scotch tape works in a crunch).  You'll have to spread out the clamp a tiny
bit to fit, (Assuming you have the "large bore" trombone Lyre, the small
bore lyre's WON'T fit!).  The tape also guards against the Lyre sliding off
and causing further damage than what you're trying to prevent.  Then to
prevent scratches and dents on the bell from the lyre itself, turn the Lyre
outward a bit, you'll have to read the music at an slight angle, but it
won't make you go crosseyed and you'll never know a lyre ever graced your
.547!

The other remedy is to line the lyre clamp with cork...  Not really prudent
for only ONE gig though...

Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Soukup [mailto:psoukup@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:19 AM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: Marching Lyre


Me again.

Here's my next question.  I agreed to a marching gig (what was I thinking)
where he wants us to play our .547s.  Is there any better way to hold them
little charts besides the crappy thing that scratches your mouthpiece
receiver?

Should I just try to memorize the charts?  Never mind, there are 9 of them.

I heard that those flute under arm things can work.  Anybody have anything
else to suggest?

Pete Soukup
psoukup@mindspring.com
Grand Avenue Big Band
The Moonlighters
The Houndz
St. Andrew's Brass
Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
West Suburban Symphony (alternate)

</x-charset>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:17:10 -0600 
From: Roger Karren <rkarren@sorensontech.com>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Marching Lyre
Message-ID: <6E031E06378BD311AEF20090273CE1BA6EF4B3@el-postino.s-vision.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<x-charset iso-8859-1>
I forgot to mention...  those Bell lyres are crap!...  unless you like the
ripples in the bell it leaves behind...  And yes, we even tried to modify
them so they wouldn't do that with absolutely NO success...

Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Soukup [mailto:psoukup@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:19 AM
To: Trombones and related issues forum.
Subject: Marching Lyre


Me again.

Here's my next question.  I agreed to a marching gig (what was I thinking)
where he wants us to play our .547s.  Is there any better way to hold them
little charts besides the crappy thing that scratches your mouthpiece
receiver?

Should I just try to memorize the charts?  Never mind, there are 9 of them.

I heard that those flute under arm things can work.  Anybody have anything
else to suggest?

Pete Soukup
psoukup@mindspring.com
Grand Avenue Big Band
The Moonlighters
The Houndz
St. Andrew's Brass
Naperville Area Trombone Ensemble
DuPage Symphony Orchestra (alternate)
West Suburban Symphony (alternate)

</x-charset>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:45:53 -0500
From: E P Lukas <paulel9@bellsouth.net>
To: rkarren@sorensontech.com
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Marching Lyre
Message-ID: <398C8B11.D2B44CCD@bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Roger Karren wrote:
> 
> Just put a a piece of electrician's tape around the Mouthpiece receiver,
> (scotch tape works in a crunch).  You'll have to spread out the clamp a tiny
> bit to fit, (Assuming you have the "large bore" trombone Lyre, the small
> bore lyre's WON'T fit!).  The tape also guards against the Lyre sliding off
> and causing further damage than what you're trying to prevent. 
> The other remedy is to line the lyre clamp with cork...  Not really prudent
> for only ONE gig though...

Next time you're at Walmart, pick up a small roll
of the
waffle pattern non-skid trailer shelf lining
material.
Use a small piece of this instead of cork or tape
to
minimize surface damage and prevent slippage.

This is an eminently useful material for
converting 
just about anything into a non-skid surface
including
music stand shelves, the bottom of music folders, 
the top of your TV, the dashboard of your car,
hard
flooring, the handles of appliances and tools,
etc.
Cut it to size with scissors and use rubber cement
for adhesion wherever you need it.

This is a GREAT product!

-- 
They claim that candidate Bush needs a running
mate with GRAVITAS ; Gore needs a running mate
with VERITAS.

ERNIE PAUL LUKAS
TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST
BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND
MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA

From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:41:11 -0500
From: Chris Waage <chris@trombone.org>
To: Trombone-L <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Topeka Symphony Wages
Message-ID: <v04220804b5b2472860d0@[24.29.189.223]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

<x-flowed>OK - I had no intention of igniting another round of low-pay 
discussions.  However, here's my personal philosophy on the whole 
issue.

To me, it makes sense to play in an orchestral for low pay (which, by 
the way, is increasing season-by-season), getting to play great 
literature with excellent musicians, working with excellent guest 
artists (Dave Brubeck was a highlight!), and pushing myself to give 
the best possible performance.

This beats the daylights out of sitting at home WISHING I had an 
orchestra to play with.

That was my entire philosophy when I took the gig two years ago, and 
it hasn't changed.

Yeah, I wish it was union scale, but it's Topeka, KS.  Not exactly a 
musical mecca . . .

Chris

p.s.-The Orchestra Committee is pushing to double stipends for next 
season as well, putting us more in line with orchestras in our budget 
range.
_________________________________________
Chris Waage            chris@trombone.org
            Associate Webmaster
        The Online Trombone Journal
          http://www.trombone.org

</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:50:10 -0400
From: Randy Campora <campora@peabody.jhu.edu>
To: langfur@mail.com,
        "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Trigger usage
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000805201309.009d5450@mail.telephonet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

<x-flowed>At 06:31 PM 8/4/00 , Gabriel Langfur wrote:
>Obvious question: Why not learn to play that D in fourth in tune? Or the 
>B-flat/A-sharp in fifth that can be so useful in The Ride? Those notes 
>don't have to be as squirrely as they are for most people - they just need 
>to be practiced for precise intonation. I think a big part of Sam's 
>contention is that many good players don't spend the time to practice any 
>more notes than they absolutely need in positions 4-7, and consequently 
>cut themselves off from many options, particularly in sight-reading.


Yes, can't argue with that.  There are a couple of different issues in this 
thread, let me just take them singly for a moment, and remember that I am 
talking about bass trombone orchestral playing specifically regarding these 
positions.

(1) If playing the Hungarian March with standard positions produces better 
results more quickly, then I would do that, rather than come into a lesson 
using alt. positions and be out of tune.  If a player uses alt. positions 
and plays it perfectly, then we just say "go man go!" and turn our 
attention elsewhere.  But too often I see students feel obligated to use 
alternate positions and not realize that they are playing them out of 
tune.  The first goal is to play Hungarian March acceptably, the next goal 
is to work on alternate positions.  If we can achieve the first goal more 
quickly by playing standard positions, I opt for that and then talk about 
the second goal of alt. positions.

(2) I still feel, again I'm talking about bass trbn orchestral playing, 
that standard positions are almost always best when playing in the FF 
volume range or near it.  Here are some exceptions:

Til Eulenspiegel, a couple of notes at the end of the big run, an A# or a 
Bb in 5th as I recall.

The Ride, I only use the A# in 5th for the eighth note, not the dotted 
quarter, sometimes I just go to first--alt. positions in the ride on bass 
are probably OK at audition dynamics (most of us play the Ride too loudly 
at auditions anyway), but I don't like them at concert dynamics, just not 
as massive, for me anyway.  If Sam can pull it off, I give him the "go man 
go!" thumbs up!

These are just examples of above the staff alt. positions, not trigger 
examples, of which there are probably many more.  An example of trigger Bb 
in third at pretty big volume levels would be Hindemith Sym. Metamorphosis, 
last movement with the big tune and all the Bb's to Db's in fast eighth 
notes, thayer valves have no problem with that type of stuff. Sam of course 
was right, Bb's to Db's are best with trigger even if loud, if they are 
very fast.  If they are slow enough for the articulation to hide the slide 
movement then standard 1st pos. is fine if you are really honking.

(3) Yes, the trend is that most of us, probably myself included, don't 
spend enough time getting the resonance and intonation in tip top shape for 
alt. positions, and that is a shame, but I think in the above examples the 
standard positions are still better off.  An example of that is Hary 
Janos.  I play it the way Doug Yeo taught me, lower the tuning slide on the 
F valve (I play dependent Thayers) so you can get a really honest to 
goodness in tune low G in 7th with the valve, and you have an in tune C at 
the bumpers in 1st, so that you really hear the harmonic movement of the G 
to the C, and not just a messy BARRRRUUUMPH kind of gliss with only a C at 
the top.  When I teach this to students, even when they re tune the valve 
slide they have a hard time getting an in tune and resonant low G, but when 
they come back the next week and they have buzzed it and they have worked 
on it a lot, it is fine, nice and resonant and it sounds great. (Note to 
the wise: don't forget to re tune the slide after Hary Janos is 
over!).  BTW, this re tuning is even easier on an in-line horn, because you 
have not re tuned the 2nd valve and you can play the C's without the 
glisses in the 2nd valve and it feels really comfy.

(4) An example of when we should use alt. positions more in general is when 
we are playing in a legato or sostenuto style, even pretty loudly, we 
should try to stay on the same partial when moving in half steps.  It 
really sounds like a slide trombone, with little blips and slurps, when we 
go to another partial when moving in half steps, rather than staying on the 
same partial.  This is especially true when slurring, but also true in an 
articulated sostenuto style.  It is not very true in a more articulated style.

Sam, thanks for some points on this topic that I had not thought of (in 
high range, trying not to disturb the embouchure with large slide 
movements, for example).

I'll end with a slightly related tip of my own, that has helped me get rid 
of some slurs on the slide that are bumpy or glitchy, especially when 
playing softly:  move the slide quickly but move the embouchure more slowly 
from note to note, while of course making sure there is no slow down of the 
air. Constant air, quick slide, slower embouchure.  Give it a try when you 
want silky slurs but you are not getting them, especially at lower volume 
levels (Brahms 1, Berg violin concerto, Schumann 3).





	-Randy Campora

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Randy Campora,  Bass Trombonist
Baltimore Symphony Orchestra
Peabody Conservatory of Music

campora@peabody.jhu.edu
410-461-1984
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:43:55 -0500
From: Craig Parmerlee <craig@acticalc.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Trigger usage
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000805203238.00b00870@acticalc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

<x-flowed>At 08:50 PM 8/5/00 -0400, Randy Campora wrote:
 >Yes, can't argue with that.  There are a couple of different issues in this
 >thread, let me just take them singly for a moment, and remember that I am
 > talking about bass trombone orchestral playing specifically regarding these
 >positions.


> >(1) If playing the Hungarian March with standard positions produces better
> >results more quickly, then I would do that, rather than come into a lesson
> >using alt. positions and be out of tune.  If a player uses alt. 
> positions and
> >plays it perfectly, then we just say "go man go!" and turn our attention 
> elsewhere.
> >But too often I see students feel obligated to use alternate positions 
> and not
> >realize that they are playing them out of tune.

I think we can all agree that beginners should learn the primary positions 
first.  A person who has trouble playing alternates in tune is, by 
definition, a beginner.

I take your point about sustained FFF notes on the open horn vs through a 
valve.  I don't notice a difference of consequence on my setup, but maybe 
that means I'm playing the open horn badly.  If the open horn produces a 
better result at FFF then by all means that should be favored in these 
situations.  I've played Lindberg 88Hs that seem to play more clearly 
through the valve than open, so maybe the player would favor the valve on 
that horn.

Cheers,
Craig



</x-flowed>
From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:43:01 EDT
From: Tbcwes@aol.com
To: craig@acticalc.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Trigger usage
Message-ID: <e6.92c2396.26be38c5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/5/00 9:43:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
craig@acticalc.com writes:

<< I think we can all agree that beginners should learn the primary positions 
 first.  A person who has trouble playing alternates in tune is, by 
 definition, a beginner. >>

I think we should start teaching kids all positions in the very beginning. 
Then ALL positions would be primary. Alt. positions would just be another 
position where a particular note came out [beautifully]. The same concept is 
proven time and time again with sloppy technique in 6th and 7th position, 
because a kid had a trigger on his/her 1st horn so they never bothered to 
learn the technique.

Running for cover,
-Wes

From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 00:13:45 -0400
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re:Trigger usage
Message-ID: <200008060414.AAA13267@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>At 08:50 PM 8/5/00 -0400, Randy Campora wrote:
>>At 06:31 PM 8/4/00 , Gabriel Langfur wrote:
>>Obvious question: Why not learn to play that D in fourth in tune? Or the 
>>B-flat/A-sharp in fifth that can be so useful in The Ride? Those notes 
>>don't have to be as squirrely as they are for most people - they just need 
>>to be practiced for precise intonation. I think a big part of Sam's 
>>contention is that many good players don't spend the time to practice any 
>>more notes than they absolutely need in positions 4-7, and consequently 
>>cut themselves off from many options, particularly in sight-reading.
>
>
>Yes, can't argue with that.  There are a couple of different issues in this 
>thread, let me just take them singly for a moment, and remember that I am 
>talking about bass trombone orchestral playing specifically regarding these 
>positions.
>
>(1) If playing the Hungarian March with standard positions produces better 
>results more quickly, then I would do that, rather than come into a lesson 
>using alt. positions and be out of tune.  If a player uses alt. positions 
>and plays it perfectly, then we just say "go man go!" and turn our 
>attention elsewhere.  But too often I see students feel obligated to use 
>alternate positions and not realize that they are playing them out of 
>tune.  The first goal is to play Hungarian March acceptably, the next goal 
>is to work on alternate positions.  If we can achieve the first goal more 
>quickly by playing standard positions, I opt for that and then talk about 
>the second goal of alt. positions.
=============

   I agree...the other side of the alternate position coin is that some
players...mostly young...get carried away, and start using them just for
their own sake. 

   I'm totally against "practicing" when making music....and MOSTLY against
the idea of considering rehearsal "practice" time, as well. Occasionally I
might try something in rehearsal that I'm not fairly sure will work, but
not often.

   A rule I always give students about alternate positions is...never use
them unless they improve the performance. 

   Find out what works and what doesn't in the practice room...when you're
really playing, just PLAY. (Or to put it another way...if you have to THINK
about the positions you're using...you're not making music.)

===============

>(2) I still feel, again I'm talking about bass trbn orchestral playing, 
>that standard positions are almost always best when playing in the FF 
>volume range or near it.  Here are some exceptions:
>
>Til Eulenspiegel, a couple of notes at the end of the big run, an A# or a 
>Bb in 5th as I recall.
>
>The Ride, I only use the A# in 5th for the eighth note, not the dotted 
>quarter, sometimes I just go to first--alt. positions in the ride on bass 
>are probably OK at audition dynamics (most of us play the Ride too loudly 
>at auditions anyway), but I don't like them at concert dynamics, just not 
>as massive, for me anyway.  If Sam can pull it off, I give him the "go man 
>go!" thumbs up!

=================

   I dislike the ENTIRE 5th partial...and the 7th too...on most horns.
Especially at volume. I often go so far as to play middle C and C# in 6th
and 5th, if they're long notes, and almost ALWAYS play D above middle C in
4th. 


  Same w/G + Gb above middle C...I often play 'em in 4th and 5th for sound. 

   If I'm going to G or Gb above middle C from the F below them, and I'm
playing them in 4th or 5th, I'll often play the F in 6th. (Again, for
sound.) The F in sharp 4th is timbrally inferior on most horns, and the
slide throw from 1st to 4th or 5th, although certainly possible, is much
more violent than going in from 6th.

   But for MOBILITY...and by this I mean the kind of mobility that a fluent
8th note jazz player should have, in all keys...alternates forever.

====================================

>These are just examples of above the staff alt. positions, not trigger 
>examples, of which there are probably many more.  An example of trigger Bb 
>in third at pretty big volume levels would be Hindemith Sym. Metamorphosis, 
>last movement with the big tune and all the Bb's to Db's in fast eighth 
>notes, thayer valves have no problem with that type of stuff. Sam of course 
>was right, Bb's to Db's are best with trigger even if loud, if they are 
>very fast.  If they are slow enough for the articulation to hide the slide 
>movement then standard 1st pos. is fine if you are really honking.
>
>(3) Yes, the trend is that most of us, probably myself included, don't 
>spend enough time getting the resonance and intonation in tip top shape for 
>alt. positions, and that is a shame, but I think in the above examples the 
>standard positions are still better off.  An example of that is Hary 
>Janos.  I play it the way Doug Yeo taught me, lower the tuning slide on the 
>F valve (I play dependent Thayers) so you can get a really honest to 
>goodness in tune low G in 7th with the valve, and you have an in tune C at 
>the bumpers in 1st, so that you really hear the harmonic movement of the G 
>to the C, and not just a messy BARRRRUUUMPH kind of gliss with only a C at 
>the top.  When I teach this to students, even when they re tune the valve 
>slide they have a hard time getting an in tune and resonant low G, but when 
>they come back the next week and they have buzzed it and they have worked 
>on it a lot, it is fine, nice and resonant and it sounds great. (Note to 
>the wise: don't forget to re tune the slide after Hary Janos is 
>over!).  BTW, this re tuning is even easier on an in-line horn, because you 
>have not re tuned the 2nd valve and you can play the C's without the 
>glisses in the 2nd valve and it feels really comfy.
>
>(4) An example of when we should use alt. positions more in general is when 
>we are playing in a legato or sostenuto style, even pretty loudly, we 
>should try to stay on the same partial when moving in half steps.  It 
>really sounds like a slide trombone, with little blips and slurps, when we 
>go to another partial when moving in half steps, rather than staying on the 
>same partial.  This is especially true when slurring, but also true in an 
>articulated sostenuto style.  It is not very true in a more articulated
style.
>
>Sam, thanks for some points on this topic that I had not thought of (in 
>high range, trying not to disturb the embouchure with large slide 
>movements, for example).


==============

   You're welcome. It was a lesson paid for in many bad notes on my part.

   And thanks to you for a peek into the mind of an orchestral bass
trombonist.

   Later...

   S.
>
>I'll end with a slightly related tip of my own, that has helped me get rid 
>of some slurs on the slide that are bumpy or glitchy, especially when 
>playing softly:  move the slide quickly but move the embouchure more slowly 
>from note to note, while of course making sure there is no slow down of the 
>air. Constant air, quick slide, slower embouchure.  Give it a try when you 
>want silky slurs but you are not getting them, especially at lower volume 
>levels (Brahms 1, Berg violin concerto, Schumann 3).
>
>
>
>
>
>	-Randy Campora
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Randy Campora,  Bass Trombonist
>Baltimore Symphony Orchestra
>Peabody Conservatory of Music
>
>campora@peabody.jhu.edu
>410-461-1984
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 



From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 23:17:32 -0500
From: Craig Parmerlee <craig@acticalc.com>
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Trigger usage
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000805230802.00affd30@acticalc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

<x-flowed>At 11:43 PM 8/5/00 -0400, Tbcwes@aol.com wrote:
>I think we should start teaching kids all positions in the very beginning.
>Then ALL positions would be primary. Alt. positions would just be another
>position where a particular note came out [beautifully]. The same concept is
>proven time and time again with sloppy technique in 6th and 7th position,
>because a kid had a trigger on his/her 1st horn so they never bothered to
>learn the technique.


Well, I don't know about the "very beginning", but basically I agree with 
you.  It is pointless to try to teach alternates when the kid is struggling 
to get anything resembling a musical note within a range of a half 
octave.  But I certainly agree that all aspects of slide technique -- 
including exploitation of the alternates -- should be emphasized at the 
earliest possible opportunity.  Wrist technique and slide strategy are two 
rudiments that seem to be lacking a lot these days.

I consider myself fortunate to have had a teacher who knew better and made 
sure he put me on the right track.  And I consider myself doubly fortunate 
36 years later to be able to thank him for his patient firmness in 
insisting that I learn those lessons.  Yes, he still teaches, and maybe my 
word of thanks encouraged him to stick by his guns just a little harder 
with his current students.


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From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:24:25 -0700
From: "Rod Ellard" <ellard@sprint.ca>
To: "Trombone List" <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: Leadpipe
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<DIV><FONT size=2>I'm looking for a Bach leadpipe for bass trombone.&nbsp; Does 
anyone have one they would like to sell?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Please reply off the list.&nbsp; Thank you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Rod</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 00:56:44 -0700
From: "Nick Drozdoff" <ndrozdof@interaccess.com>
To: <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject: New mp3 file
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<DIV>I did a little mp3 file for my daughter.&nbsp; It (like so much of my 
stuff) is a little gooffy, but we had fun with it.&nbsp; It could be good for 
some laughs. It's the "Natashinka" thing.&nbsp; I'm still working on tenor and 
I've got to replace that Blessing valve'bone eventually, but money's tight right 
now.&nbsp; BTW, this isn't really jazz, tough it is entirely "faked" 
together.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A 
href="http://www.mp3.com/NickDrozdoff">http://www.mp3.com/NickDrozdoff</A></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From ???@??? Sun Aug 06 19:33:23 2000
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:05:19 +0100
From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule@adios.co.uk>
To: "Sam Burtis" <sabutin@mindspring.com>,
        "Trombones and related issues forum." <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Subject:  Re:Trigger usage
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<x-charset iso-8859-1>----- Original Message -----
From: <sabutin@mindspring.com>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 5:13 AM
Subject: Re:Trigger usage


>    I dislike the ENTIRE 5th partial...and the 7th too...on most horns.
> Especially at volume. I often go so far as to play middle C and C# in 6th
> and 5th, if they're long notes, and almost ALWAYS play D above middle C in
> 4th.
>
>   Same w/G + Gb above middle C...I often play 'em in 4th and 5th for
sound.
>
>    If I'm going to G or Gb above middle C from the F below them, and I'm
> playing them in 4th or 5th, I'll often play the F in 6th. (Again, for
> sound.) The F in sharp 4th is timbrally inferior on most horns, and the
> slide throw from 1st to 4th or 5th, although certainly possible, is much
> more violent than going in from 6th.

Sam, it sounds like you have a downer on odd numbered harmonics.  I suppose
that any note that isn't a 1st position Bb has a certain degree of
inferiority either in tuning or clarity.  The further you extend the slide,
the narrower the bore is in relation to tube length.  Quality of tone is
bound to differ.  The flat partials (5th, 7th etc) are not the easiest to
"find", but I cannot say that they sound noticeably inferior to me when
played in tune.

When I started teaching myself trombone, I was told that the shortest
positions produce the clearest sounding notes, and I must say I found them
the easiest to play.  That is why most players get their high G and Gb on
the #7th partial.  My first trombone had one of those spring things that
allowed me play Ab in 1st.  Later on in trombone life I started to discover
that alternative positions provided easier shifts.  Now, just for fun, I
sometimes try to play everything avoiding 1st postion.  It's probably the
best way to become familiar with the alternatives that are available.

OK Sam, you've proclaimed your dislike of 5th and 7th partials and I guess
it would be impossible to play most pieces without using the 3rd.  What are
your views on using the 9th harmonic as a first choice?

A.

Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland)
Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk
Business: studio@adios.co.uk
http://www.adios.co.uk



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