TROMBONE-L Digest 1702 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Again, Bach at GREAT price by "bojovicm" 2) Fw: Interesting item on eBay web site item#345543504: Getzen bass trumpet by "Tom Izzo" 3) Flash: Tito Puente Passes by E P Lukas 4) RE: New thread...maybe... by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 5) Re: Tuba Mirum by Howard Weiner 6) RE: Taps for live buglers... by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 7) Re: Oslo by "William M. Hughes" 8) Bass Trombonne advice needed by Steve Wilfong 9) Re: electric abuse by "Daniel Pliskin" 10) Fw: Megatones by "hamprod" 11) RE: Elitism by "Daniel Pliskin" 12) Re: Bass Trombonne advice needed by "Jeff Albert" 13) For Sale: Yamaha Compensating Euph by Christopher Balas 14) VFW by Earl Needham 15) RE: New thread...maybe... by Timothy Richardson 16) Re: "prolifiration of ampliphication" by "Adrian Drover" 17) Re: New thread...maybe... by "Gary D. Maxwell" 18) Re: New thread...maybe... by "Adrian Drover" 19) RE: "prolifiration of ampliphication" by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 20) Rims: was Megatones by "Thomas Smee" 21) Re: Bass Trombonne advice needed by "Aaron Roth" 22) RE: Elitism by "Aaron Roth" 23) RE: Megatones by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 24) Re: Megatones by Emil & Cynthia Orth 25) RE: New thread...maybe.... by Howard Weiner 26) TD's mouthpiece by "Dean Hubbard" 27) Used Conn 88H Value? by "Donovan Bankhead" 28) Re: TD's mouthpiece by Harykoz@aol.com 29) RE: New thread...maybe... by "Daniel Pliskin" 30) Re: elitism, sort of by "Daniel Pliskin" 31) Fw: TD's mouthpiece by "Dean Hubbard" 32) RE: Megatones & Nut Crackers by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 33) nice Conn 6H on ebay by "Stewart M. Crane" 34) Bagbone by Earl Needham 35) Re: TD's mouthpiece by Earl Needham 36) Re: Megatones by "Steve Beck" 37) Re: New thread...maybe... by "Steve Beck" 38) Re: New thread...maybe... by sabutin@mindspring.com 39) Re: Megatones by "hamprod" 40) Re: Megatones by "Kenneth Dowdy" 41) Re: Megatones & Nut Crackers by "Kenneth Dowdy" 42) Re: TD's mouthpiece by "Kenneth Dowdy" 43) leadpipes by "Brian" 44) Re: leadpipes by "Jeff Albert" 45) Re: leadpipes by BassBonist@aol.com 46) Re: Fwd: King bass bones by Robert Queisser 47) Re: leadpipes by JoshuaSL@aol.com 48) Re: TD's mouthpiece by "Michael Towe" 49) Vive el Rey del Timbal (Tito Puente) by Bob Byers 50) Re: "prolifiration of ampliphication" by Jim Seaman 51) Re: leadpipes by sabutin@mindspring.com 52) FS: Conn 88H Slide/YORK Custom Model ("Bach 16") by Eric 53) Fw: Santana tv special by "Eric Edwards" 54) Re: Vive el Rey del Timbal (Tito Puente) by Douglas Yeo From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:14:53 -0400 From: "bojovicm" To: Subject: Again, Bach at GREAT price Message-ID: <034b01bfcc27$943bc880$0101a8c0@MarkBojovic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0348_01BFCC06.0BE39EC0"
 
Remember that awsome Bach Strad 42 BO, but it was insanely priced at over $1700???   Well, check out the good news. 
 
It's listed at E-bay for under $900 bucks! 
 
Nothing wrong with it.  Includes wood and vinyl case, Music Books used at high school and college level at the School of Music at Michigan State University, both the 6 1/2 AL and 5G Bach mouthpieces.
 
Contact me by e-mail or call (810)214-4445 to speak with me (MARK).
 
Enjoy!
--
Mark Bojovic
 
 From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:32:58 -0500 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Fw: Interesting item on eBay web site item#345543504: Getzen bass trumpet Message-ID: <003601bfcbcd$e73e0980$9075dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wasn't someone looking for a Bass Trumpet just the other day? > > Title of item: Getzen bass trumpet > Seller: ebaymaggie@aol.com > Starts: May-30-00 09:53:50 PDT > Ends: Jun-06-00 09:53:50 PDT > Price: Currently $305.00 > To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=345543504 > > > Item Description: > > Getzen bass trumpet > > > Getzen Bb bass trumpet, s/n KN1 107. Only a few very minor dings. All slides free. Excellent valve action and excellent playing qualities. Some loss of lacquer because of hand wear and minor pitting. Overall, I rate the horn at about 9 on a 0-10 scale. Case is structurally intact and in very good condition, with only minor wear. The only reason I'm selling this fine horn is because my wife says I have too many horns. (Is it possible to have too many horns...?) I've been playing Dixieland jazz with it, as an occasional alternative to my King 3B slide trombone; the bass trumpet sounds pretty much like a valve trombone. Buyer pays shipping via UPS. Payment by check or money order. US bidders only, please. > > Click image to view larger version > Click image to view larger version > > Track this auction at AuctionWatch.com > > > > > FREE bulk listing tools, image hosting, counters, auction management solutions, AuctionWatch.com > > Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 07:35:56 -0500 From: E P Lukas To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Flash: Tito Puente Passes Message-ID: <393658AC.A3A4501@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From the NBC Today Show: Bandleader Tito Puente has passed away. He was 77. Many of us knew him (or wish we did!) GREAT MUSICIAN. His daughter Audrey is a weathercaster on MSNBC. From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:41:29 -0500 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This talk of trombones and bull elephants sounds like a clarinetist's fantasy to me :-) KSD > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Burton [SMTP:philroymt@home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:40 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: New thread...maybe... > > This was sent to me by a friend on the klarinet mail list... > ------------------- > > This thread has endless possibilities. Is it required that trombone > players have perfect pitch? How else would they know where to stop > when playing a scale? > > I also have been told by unimpeachable sources that Wildlife Biologists > in Africa carry trombones as standard equipment in Kenya when > inventorying populations of elephants. Periodically they sound several > blasts which apparently simulate the sound of the female elephant in heat > as it were. > When these clarion tones reach out across the Serengeti Plains they > attract male suitors in droves. The Biologists also point out its best > to leave the area shortly thereafter as a bull elephant when arriving > on scene may be in a bit of a snit when he finds his inamorata is a > student model Holton without even an F attachment. > From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:27:33 From: Howard Weiner To: "Adolphus Sprott" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tuba Mirum Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000601152733.2c574ab6@mail.privat.toplink.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 01:04 01.06.2000 -0500, Adolphus Sprott wrote: >I am working up the excerpt from the Tuba Mirum in Mozart's Requiem. I have >a question about the writing on the music. On the OTJ, the first couple of >phrases are marked as tongued and the second phrase has a curved line over >it. In the original copy that I have, there is a curved line over all the >phrases in the solo. So...... the question is, are these curved lines lines >simply phrase markings/suggestions or are they slur markings? What is the >correct articulation in the phrases of this solo? Is it tongued or slurred? >This is especially confusing since everywhere I look the music has different >markings. Doug Yeo and I discussed this on the list a few years ago. Our discussion was subsequently published in "The Trombonist," the magazine of the British Trombone Society. You can find it on Doug's web site or on the web site of the BTS . Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - attributed to Frank Zappa "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzähltes Mittagessen" - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 08:22:54 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'crawford@cvc.net'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Taps for live buglers... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" After reading Cliff and Mike's recent posts on Taps for live buglers, I felt compelled to write. A friend of mine sent me the article last week and while it bothered me to see what progress has given us, I did not "feel" the issue until I read these posts. Cliff, the VFW is wrong and has misplaced its priorities. That is unfortunate. I agree with you , Taps should be played as often as possible. Ceremony is an important part of life. The ceremony of birth and death are the two most important ones, all the others in between are only pale surrogates. In 1995 when my son was a freshman in high school his band played a 50th Year tribute to the World War II Veterans and the end of the War. It had many 1940's tunes, (a great rendition of Sing, sing, sing...) and effectively recreated the feeling of that time through music. Near the end, echoing buglers played taps from both ends of the field. Many Veterans stood in the audience. I can tell you that even after hearing that performance of Taps at least 50 times, I was still moved to tears by its beauty, but mostly by what the calling of Taps really means. Thanks Cliff and Mike. While some may rail against the industrial aspects of Defense, in the cemetery we lay a soldier, an individual to rest, who's life was changed forever in the duty of his/her country. I have benefited from the Greatest Generation's sacrifices. I don't feel a recording of Taps is enough at this ceremony. Not only do we reduce the emotional effects through using the recording, but we cheapen ourselves as well. Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: cliff crawford [mailto:crawford@cvc.net] Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 2:20 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Taps for live buglers... I agree Craig - veterans deserve more than recorded music. The local VFW post serves as honor guard in our community. The buglar, a WW II veteran, is getting up in years and so they recently went to recorded music. It's not the same. Because my dad and brother are/were members of the VFW, I requested a meeting with the local commander and volunteered to play for funerals, when needed. They decided against it because I'm not a veteran. Too bad. At 51, I felt like I could return something to the veterans. Honor guard and bugler duties is an important function. When my dad died, the rifle fire salute and live taps were a fitting tribute to his life and service. Cliff C. From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:03:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "William M. Hughes" To: trombone-l Subject: Re: Oslo Message-ID: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII >The principal is Aline Nistad. >Regards, >Gary >Adolphus Sprott wrote: >> >> Who are the trombonists in the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra? I just bought >> recording of their Wagner collection with the Ride, Tannhauser, Rienzi, and >> Lohengrin. They are simply fantastic; very technically clean with great >> tone, and they really play together well. I was very impressed. >> >> Weston Sprott The second trombone is Thorbjorn Lonmo who grew up in Vestfold, Norway and was trained in Oslo. He was a member of the Goteborg Orchestra in Sweden for some time before returning to Norway several years ago to play with the Oslo Philharmonic. Martin Hughes From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:28:42 -0700 From: Steve Wilfong To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Bass Trombonne advice needed Message-ID: <39369D4A.5A9A81B3@yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good morning listers, I am looking for advice on the purchase of a new/used bass trombone. I am primarily a freelance tenor player that has to cover a wide variety of territory including shows, orchestral playing, quintet, big band, etc. Lately I have been required to start doing some doubling and it seems that for me at least this requirement will be increasing. Hence, I am looking for for a bass trombone that works well as a doubling instrument. Any suggestions? Thanks to the kindness of friends I have been able to play an Olds (9.5 in bell in-line independent F/Gb/Eb) -- very uncomfortable and stuffy valve section. (I didn't like this horn at all); and I have also played a Bach (10.5 bell, dependent rotors) -- this was a good horn and more comfortable to play but really didn't work well in the show/big band setting. I'm particularly looking for advice from those of you who already do frequent doubling. Thanks, Steve Wilfong freelance -- Raleigh NC From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 07:30:00 PDT From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: electric abuse Message-ID: <20000601143001.43819.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > "THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO MUSIC WAS ELECTRICITY. PERIOD!!" > > Actually, I used to be pretty good at sliding across the stage on my knees and ending up right in front of my little amp, so that I could play around with a bit of feedback. My hair was long enough to cover up the skeet shooting earplugs that I always wore. You used to have to put your head into the ports of the Voice of the Theaters, to tell which of them were working. DanP ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:32 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 05:32:21 -0400 From: "hamprod" To: "Trombone list" Subject: Fw: Megatones Message-ID: <0c4601bfcbac$4a0ad2e0$ed8556d1@frankham> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi KSD, >> >Interesting that you mention Dorsey. His mpc was equivalent to a Schilke >42B (.905 inches), which makes the Bach 15 (.961 inches) look like a toilet >bowl! Was the Dorsey mouthpiece C shaped or more V shaped? I have a King 28 (the kind that Urbie Green used until he helped >design the Jet Tone bearing his name) that mikes out to .935 inches. A Bach >22 measures .942 inches. I'm all for people using the 1.00 inch+ >mouthpieces when they can make them sound good. But a lot of people have >sounded pretty good without them, too. Can they effectively get a solid bass register sound or is their range truncated as has been suggested? > >Also, I have found that rim design seems to make a lot of difference in the >feel of a mouthpiece. To my lips, the King 28 FEELS a lot larger than it >measures. In fact, I feel like I have more room for my lips than I do with >a Bach 12C. Also, I have a Schilke 42 that FEELS about the same size as the >King 28, only a lot more comfortable with its wider rim. This is in spite >of the fact that it MEASURES considerably smaller than either the King 28 or >Bach 12C. Has anyone else noticed that certain rims feel larger or smaller >than they actually are? Does the King 28 and the Schilke 42 have a sharper or more rounded inner rim? Selmer mentions that this is a consideration for attack, sfz or stocatto notes. Just asking questions because I'm a newcomer. Frank From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 07:36:06 PDT From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Elitism Message-ID: <20000601143606.75734.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> > How bout it?? What toppings do you want on your pizza? >> > >>I'm partial to spinach and mushrooms. Pepperoni and sausage is a good >>combination. But please, no onions, green peppers, or anchovies. I'll take mine with onions, green peppers and anchovies, please. DanP ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:06:26 -0500 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombonne advice needed Message-ID: <002c01bfcbda$f64cca80$b6d44fd8@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, I am primarily a jazz/commercial tenor player, but I double on bass as well, in both commercial and classical settings. For me the trick has been the right mouthpiece. I play a Schilke 58 on bass, and it works great. It is big enough to sound like a bass trombone, and small enough that it doesn't touch my ears. I have a 30 odd year old dependent closed wrap Bach 50 with a 10.5 in bell, and it seems to do the job. I choose this horn, because the price was right. The previous owners played it in all sorts of situations from the New Orleans Symphony to backing Ella Fitzgerald at the Blue Room, so I know the horn is versatile (now if I can be that versatile we'd be ok). I had a chance to play an Edwards, with the independent Thayers and the really heavy red brass 10.5 in bell. I played an entire big band gig on it, and loved it for the most part. The valves were great, but I don't really have the bass chops to keep up with that bell. Good luck. Jeff Albert www.musiciansvillage.com/jeffalbert From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 11:31:05 +0000 From: Christopher Balas To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: For Sale: Yamaha Compensating Euph Message-ID: <39364979.5880@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all. I have the following horn for sale... Yamaha YEP-641 compensating Euphonium. 90% of lacquer intact with 3 minor dents on bow. Plays great. Also included, euphonium stand and humes & berg mute. Price: $2000 (negotiable) Please e-mail me privately or call me at (412) 443-7746. Best, Chris Balas From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 09:47:02 -0600 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: VFW Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000601094549.00a78100@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:22 AM 6/1/00 -0500, Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston blasted the following out into the ether: >After reading Cliff and Mike's recent posts on Taps for live buglers, I felt >compelled to write. A friend of mine sent me the article last week and >while it bothered me to see what progress has given us, I did not "feel" the >issue until I read these posts. > >Cliff, the VFW is wrong and has misplaced its priorities. And it isn't the first time! Just try to get a member of the VFW to admit that their interpretation of flag etiquette and courtesy is NOT the only way! It won't happen! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: 1 Jun 2000 09:35:51 -0700 From: Timothy Richardson To: kdowdy@oppd.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: <20000601163551.6959.cpmta@c012.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 Like most tall tales there is a measure of truth to this one. And in this case the truth part, while small, is definitely stranger than fiction. The trombone use on wildlife was not generalized over all of Africa (a pretty big place, after all). It derived from the Posaunenchor tradition which some of our list scholars like Mr. Guion and Mr. Weiner have detailed in previous posts. Trombone use was therefore prevalent in the Boer settled areas in and near South Africa, for the usual musical purposes. The wildlife use was not originally for elephants but for marauding baboons, at the time quite a problem for crops. Now, here is where the story starts getting strange, and I can't confirm all of it as absolute truth. Elephants are highly intelligent, highly social, long lived, and migrate great distances. Apparently the "trumpet" squeal of the elephant was actually imitative of the trombones being used by Boers and their employees. Yes, in this case the trombone noise came first, and the elephant learned from the bone, not the other way around. This spread through elephant culture and is now widespread through Afri! ca, but has never made it to the Indian and Asian elephant populations - they do not do the trumpeting/tromboning sound the African elephants do. Now, where the story gets a little fuzzy is the time span. Posaunenchor would have been, what, 1930's or so at the earliest? Or post WWII? If you read the writings during the great heydays of elephant hunting, 1880's or so, there are no mentions of elephants trumpeting, just grunting type noises. But later hunting stories, still pre WWII, do mention the noises, and it seems to me to be a little early for the tradition to have spread. So I'm not sure the story is proven, but that is what the biologists claim. Personally I have never shot an elephant and am very unlikely ever to do so, though I have read the writings of most of the famous ivory hunters. But I would be reluctant to take a chance on making one mad by playing anywhere near one! Until I improve a little, of course. If there were ever a situation for Silent Brass, this would be it! yours, tim richardson On Thu, 01 June 2000, "DOWDY, KENNETH S" wrote: > > This talk of trombones and bull elephants sounds like a clarinetist's > fantasy to me :-) > > KSD > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Phil Burton [SMTP:philroymt@home.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:40 PM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: New thread...maybe... > > > > This was sent to me by a friend on the klarinet mail list... > > ------------------- > > > > This thread has endless possibilities. Is it required that trombone > > players have perfect pitch? How else would they know where to stop > > when playing a scale? > > > > I also have been told by unimpeachable sources that Wildlife Biologists > > in Africa carry trombones as standard equipment in Kenya when > > inventorying populations of elephants. Periodically they sound several > > blasts which apparently simulate the sound of the female elephant in heat > > as it were. > > When these clarion tones reach out across the Serengeti Plains they > > attract male suitors in droves. The Biologists also point out its best > > to leave the area shortly thereafter as a bull elephant when arriving > > on scene may be in a bit of a snit when he finds his inamorata is a > > student model Holton without even an F attachment. > > _______________________________________________________________________ Why pay when you don't have to? Get AltaVista Free Internet Access now! http://jump.altavista.com/freeaccess4.go _______________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:30:38 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Steve Beck" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: "prolifiration of ampliphication" Message-ID: <001801bfcbed$d5f5b2c0$5047073e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Beck To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 12:37 AM Subject: Re: "prolifiration of ampliphication" > However, my vote would have been to replace the word electricity with > "bagpipes." Speaking of which, I marched with an alumni band a week ago. > Big parade, many bands. I heard someone playing a sustained tuning note so > I tuned to it. For the love of Guiness, it was the pipes I tuned to. Is > there any hope for the horn or should Iturn it into a lamp? No Steve, you can put it to much better use than that. Take out the mouthpiece and throw it away. Now have your local repairman adapt the blowing end so that it will take an oboe reed. Now from your nearest abattoir, get a large sheep's bladder and cover it with tartan cloth (it might smell bad for a while). Stick this over the reed. You now need some means of filling the bag with air; a trumpet lead pipe will do. Finally, weld your slide so that it cant shift and drill six finger holes along it. You now have the world's first Bagbone. PS. It does not matter where you drill the holes. The distinguishing feature of the ancient highland instrument is that it must NOT be in tune with any other instrument, nor with itself. PPS. Let me know when you have made the conversion so that I can write my first Bagbone and Serpent concerto for you and Doug. On second thoughts, maybe the Serpent might sound too tuneful for this particular duo. Can you think of anything else that would blend well with a Bagbone? Be quick, I need to get this ready for the Edinburgh (sorry, Edinboro) Festival 2000. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:33:33 -0700 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: timothyr9@altavista.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: <39369E6D.6F8C1731@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Timothy Richardson wrote: > > Like most tall tales there is a measure of truth to this one. And in this case the truth part, while small, is definitely stranger than fiction. > > The trombone use on wildlife was not generalized over all of Africa (a pretty big place, after all). It derived from the Posaunenchor tradition which some of our list scholars like Mr. Guion and Mr. Weiner have detailed in previous posts. Trombone use was therefore prevalent in the Boer settled areas in and near South Africa, for the usual musical purposes. The wildlife use was not originally for elephants but for marauding baboons, at the time quite a problem for crops. -------------------------------------------------------------------- A favorite photograph of mine is that of an African Native, nearly in silhouette by a setting sun, holding, at playing position, a trombone. Funny thing is that he has the instrument put together in such a way that the bell hangs below the slide and he is playing it left handed. I found the photo in either an old "Time" or "Life" magazine sometime in the early to mid-60's. I always assumed it was a posed photo, but maybe not. Anybody else remember seeing this photo? It is a full page of one of those magazines. Gary Maxwell From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:49:48 +0100 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: <00c601bfcbf1$ffb6f340$5047073e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Burton To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 4:39 AM Subject: New thread...maybe... > This thread has endless possibilities. Is it required that trombone > players have perfect pitch? How else would they know where to stop > when playing a scale? I stop going up the scale when I can't stretch my embouchure any further. I stop coming down when my embouchure turns inside-out. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:21:29 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'slide.rule@adios.co.uk'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: "prolifiration of ampliphication" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Adrian: Do you think you could throw in an elephant and make it a trio? :-). Rick Marple -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Drover [mailto:slide.rule@adios.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 11:31 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: "prolifiration of ampliphication" You now have the world's first Bagbone. PS. It does not matter where you drill the holes. The distinguishing feature of the ancient highland instrument is that it must NOT be in tune with any other instrument, nor with itself. PPS. Let me know when you have made the conversion so that I can write my first Bagbone and Serpent concerto for you and Doug. On second thoughts, maybe the Serpent might sound too tuneful for this particular duo. Can you think of anything else that would blend well with a Bagbone? Be quick, I need to get this ready for the Edinburgh (sorry, Edinboro) Festival 2000. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 14:47:11 -0400 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Rims: was Megatones Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> "Kenneth Dowdy" 05/31/00 08:03pm >>> Has anyone else noticed that certain rims feel larger or smaller than they actually are? +++++++++++++++++ Somewhere along the mouthpiece rim there is a high spot. I think the perceived largeness of the rim of some mouthpieces (compared to others with the same inside rim diameter) has to do with where the high point is on the rim. The closer the high point is to the outside of the rim, the larger the rim will feel. Tom Smee From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:38:53 PDT From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Bass Trombonne advice needed Message-ID: <20000601193853.41776.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Steve, >I am primarily a jazz/commercial tenor player, but I double on bass as >well, >in both commercial and classical settings. For me the trick has been the >right mouthpiece. Ditto on this. Something I'd recommend is the Marcinkiewicz George Roberts Signature model. Someone mentioned the Conn G. Roberts, too, and although I've never played the Conn I bet the premise is similar. The Marcinkiewicz is a small, light bass trombone mouthpiece that will get you the low notes you need without sacrificing the high range sometimes called for in show music for bass 'bones. This mouthpiece wouldn't survive a Mahler symphony for 5 minutes, though...it's definitely a lighter dealio than the monster mouthpieces. Also, as another lister mentioned, the Schilke 58 (and I'll add Bach 1.5 G) is good; it's a step bigger than the Marc. George Roberts 'piece. Maybe, for your choice of horn, you probably shouldn't go for the dual bore slide and 12" custom bell, but a regular full-size bass is easy enough to handle. -Aaron Roth ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:52:42 PDT From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Elitism Message-ID: <20000601195242.13085.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>> > How bout it?? What toppings do you want on your pizza? >>> > >>>I'm partial to spinach and mushrooms. Pepperoni and sausage is a good >>>combination. But please, no onions, green peppers, or anchovies. > > >I'll take mine with onions, green peppers and anchovies, please. > >DanP Boy, good thing e-pizza is free! We'll have to order 261 pizzas. Just as each pizza is someone's opinion on any given matter....Well, I'll eat my pizza, with pepperoni, sausage, ground beef, ham, turkey, black olives, Spanish olives, onions, green peppers, yellow peppers, pineapple, mushrooms, peanut butter, chocolate ice cream, and ANCHOVIES on it. Oh yeah: since some people share opinions, they can share their e-pizzas. See? It's as easy as that! :) -Aaron Roth ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:31:34 -0500 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "'hamprod@mindspring.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Megatones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Frank asked: > Was the Dorsey mouthpiece C shaped or more V shaped? > Don't know. Schilke could tell you since they list their 42B as being a mouthpiece designed for Tommy Dorsey. > I have a King 28 (the kind that Urbie Green used until he helped > >design the Jet Tone bearing his name) that mikes out to .935 inches. A > Bach > >22 measures .942 inches. I'm all for people using the 1.00 inch+ > >mouthpieces when they can make them sound good. But a lot of people have > >sounded pretty good without them, too. > > Can they effectively get a solid bass register sound or is their range > truncated as has been suggested? > Personally, I think that if you want a solid bass register sound, you should use a bass trombone (or at least a large tenor). I play in the tenor register. I really don't know why someone who spent a lot of time in the low register would use a King 3B, or 2B, or any other trombone of the type. The .547 bores sound a lot better down low, and even I use at least a 6 1/2 AL with one of those. BTW, I'm not saying that the little ones don't can't ever sound good down low. I'm sure that someone on this list could give you a list of 20 people who sound wonderful in the pedal range with a Bach LT6 :-) I don't know what kind of trombone Tommy Dorsey used, and I only have one CD of his music, so I will refrain from comment. On the other hand, I have a dozen or more of Urbie Green's recordings and have found nothing wrong with his range. No, his King 2B and Martin do not sound like Doug Yeo's Yamaha, but he is also not playing the same music. Never found a problem with Richard Pryor or Glen Miller, although I have heard more of the latter than the former. The few recordings that I have heard of Jack Teagarden are hard to judge since their quality is rather poor (the recording, NOT Jack's playing). I don't know what equipment Bill Watrous uses, but he sounds a lot fuller and darker than his equipment (which seems small) would sound in the hands of a mere mortal. > Does the King 28 and the Schilke 42 have a sharper or more rounded inner > rim? Selmer mentions that this is a consideration for attack, sfz or > stocatto notes. > The King 28 that I have has a rather narrow, flat rim with a rounded inner rim. The Schilke 42 (not at all the same as a 42B, BTW) has an inner rim that is a bit sharper than the King 28, but feels a bit rounder than the average Bach rim that I have tried. Also, the rim is nice and wide. Again, this is subjective because it is often difficult to tell where the rim ends and the cup begins on some mouthpieces, so I go by the way it feels on my lips. They may feel totally different to you. > Just asking questions because I'm a newcomer. > Well, I'm just an amateur. With a full time job at a powerplant and a wife and three kids at home, I don't get to play the eight to ten hours a day that some people do. Consequently, some of my equipment is used to help me with some of my many shortcomings. I can't crack walnuts with my embouchure, so I like a nice wide rim, slightly rounded, particularly if I have to play for two or three hours at a shot. My stuff works well for me, but may be totally unsuited for anyone else. KSD From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 16:30:11 -0500 From: Emil & Cynthia Orth To: kdowdy@oppd.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Megatones Message-ID: <3936D5E3.3D1D67B0@midsouth.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ken, I believe Dorsey played a King 2B super engraved liberty model. Watrous toots a Bach LT16M. Urbie was on the Martin kick last time I looked.... Emil From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:53:18 From: Howard Weiner To: timothyr9@altavista.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: New thread...maybe.... Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000601225318.0d774c3a@mail.privat.toplink.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 09:35 01.06.2000 -0700, Timothy Richardson wrote: >Like most tall tales there is a measure of truth to this one. And in this case the truth part, while small, is definitely stranger than fiction. > >The trombone use on wildlife was not generalized over all of Africa (a pretty big place, after all). It derived from the Posaunenchor tradition which some of our list scholars like Mr. Guion and Mr. Weiner have detailed in previous posts. Oy, oy, oy! How'd I get involved in this one? Apropos: "Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas and how he got into my pajamas I'll never know." - Groucho (who else?) H -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - attributed to Frank Zappa "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzähltes Mittagessen" - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:33:33 -0700 From: "Dean Hubbard" To: Subject: TD's mouthpiece Message-ID: <01e101bfcc11$0e7dd0a0$0dbd183f@default> Friends, I use on my commercial bore instruments an Al Almont mouthpiece made in the 1930s. It's the same mouthpiece that Tommy Dorsey, Buddy Morrow, Si Zentner, Glen Miller, Lou McGarity, Bobby Byrne, et al used. It's made of solid sterling silver and is about the diameter of a Bach 15. The cup is V shaped. The rim is wide with a very sharp bite. I like the sound I get using this mouthpiece on my horns. It's been my experience that smaller mouthpieces demand more control from the player. Larger mouthpieces seem to be more forgiving. (One man's opinion.) Many of the performers I listen to as a teen used what today would be called small mouthpieces. I've always enjoyed that singing quality that these players were able to produce. These folks include the men mentioned above as well as Robert Marstellar, Neil DiBiase, Orlando Jossie, Urbie, Gil Falco, Warren Covington, Lloyd Elliot and many more. Truly, Dean Hubbard Artist/Clinician for CONN trombones CONN is a division of UNITED MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS Bonedean@msn.com (510) 531-6047 (510) 336-0243 fax From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:36:20 -0500 From: "Donovan Bankhead" To: Subject: Used Conn 88H Value? Message-ID: <004001bfcc11$735dca20$283c1e3f@scream8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, My wife is wanting to purchase a new Conn 88H-CL trombone, and sell her 11 year old 88H. Her instrument is in very good condition. What would be a fair price on her 88H? It has the original case and mouthpiece, neither of which have been used. ___________________________________________ Donovan Bankhead | DonovanBankhead@msn.com Personal: http://www.trumpetplayer.net/ ___________________________________________ "Haste is a great enemy to improvement; it is a prolific breeder of bad habits." --Harold Mitchell From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:57:48 EDT From: Harykoz@aol.com To: bonedean@email.msn.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: TD's mouthpiece Message-ID: <71.39ce0e9.2668365c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/1/00 4:34:22 PM Central Daylight Time, bonedean@email.msn.com writes: << I use on my commercial bore instruments an Al Almont mouthpiece made in the 1930s. It's the same mouthpiece that Tommy Dorsey, Buddy Morrow, >> Actually, Buddy Morrow plays on a Jet Tone. From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:07:50 PDT From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: <20000601220750.40866.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >This talk of trombones and bull elephants sounds like a clarinetist's >fantasy to me :-) Scientific American did a great article on elephant sounds. It seems that the female signals all near-by males, with a sib-sonic sound, that alluded researchers for many years. Eventually it showed up on a tape, played back at twice the speed. When they played the tape back at normal speed, it seems that they soon had a bunch of bull elephants a bit too interested in their van. DanP ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:08:29 PDT From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: elitism, sort of Message-ID: <20000601220829.89556.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >That's how I feel about political correctness. It's really just >populist propaganda. Iâd say that a lot of good has come out of political correctness. All those ethnic slurs and ethnic jokes have slowly subsided, specifically because they were deemed politically incorrect·and weâre a richer culture because of it. Now, if we can only apply some of that tolerance to elitists, electric musicians and Kenny G, weâll be getting somewhere. DanP ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:13:13 -0700 From: "Dean Hubbard" To: Subject: Fw: TD's mouthpiece Message-ID: <01f601bfcc16$98e737e0$0dbd183f@default> Hary and others, You're right, Buddy does use a Jet Tone. In my original post I said, "...used", past tense. I had the pleasure of working with Buddy in the 70s, great player! He's the guy that turned me on to the Almonts. Truly, Dean Hubbard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 2:57 PM Subject: Re: TD's mouthpiece > In a message dated 6/1/00 4:34:22 PM Central Daylight Time, > bonedean@email.msn.com writes: > > << I use on my commercial bore instruments an Al Almont mouthpiece made in > the 1930s. It's the same mouthpiece that Tommy Dorsey, Buddy Morrow, >> > > Actually, Buddy Morrow plays on a Jet Tone. From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:16:53 -0500 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'kdowdy@oppd.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Megatones & Nut Crackers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ken Dowdy wrote___________________________________________________ - some of my equipment is used to help me with some of my many shortcomings. I can't crack walnuts with my embouchure... KSD __________________________________________________________________ OK Ken: Here's how you crack pecans even with your embouchure. 1. Clip off both small ends of the pecan with your teeth (or a knife, or a nut cracker). Just pinch off the end a little bit. This is the secret! 2. Put pecan between lips and press 'til casing cracks. 3. Using teeth and lips, in a controlled way roll nut and peel off the outside cover. 4. Harvest 2 whole halves and amaze your friends. 5. Now really impress them and hit a high F !! Rick Marple San Antonio TX Home of Pecan Country From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:25:20 -0400 From: "Stewart M. Crane" To: "Trombone List" Subject: nice Conn 6H on ebay Message-ID: <009001bfcc20$a8782890$0101a8c6@stewart> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List, I don't know how many of you trawl ebay, but there is an Conn Elkhart 6H with lightweight slide in the original lacquer on there now. The auction ends today. I have no interest in purchasing the horn, but I have seen inquiries in the past about 6Hs. If you are interested, this would probably be a great horn. I have an Elkhart 6H, and it's fine. Stewart Crane From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:29:58 -0600 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Bagbone Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000601122922.00a55d70@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:30 PM 6/1/00 +0100, Adrian Drover blasted the following out into the ether: > >PPS. Let me know when you have made the conversion so that I can write my >first Bagbone and Serpent concerto for you and Doug. On second thoughts, >maybe the Serpent might sound too tuneful for this particular duo. Can you >think of anything else that would blend well with a Bagbone? E flat canola horn? Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:20:16 -0600 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: TD's mouthpiece Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000601171953.00a56eb0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:33 PM 6/1/00 -0700, Dean Hubbard blasted the following out into the ether: >Friends, >I use on my commercial bore instruments an Al Almont mouthpiece made in >the 1930s. It's the same mouthpiece that >Tommy Dorsey, Buddy Morrow, Si Zentner, Glen Miller, Lou McGarity, Bobby >Byrne, >et al used. It must have a lot of wear on it! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34d 25.446 W103d 12.700 (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:04:12 -0400 From: "Steve Beck" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Megatones Message-ID: <003c01bfcc26$18704e20$2a320923@becks.cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: DOWDY, Never found a>problem with Richard Pryor or Glen Miller, although I have heard more of the>latter than the former. I always found Glenn to be funnier than either Arthur or Richard. From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:12:01 -0400 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: <004501bfcc27$2e492680$2a320923@becks.cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Phil Burton . Periodically they sound several >blasts which apparently simulate the sound of the female elephant in heat Well, another mystery solved. Earlier this year I played in a circus pickup band. We were warming up near where they were giving elephant rides. Using the vast wisdom we trombonists are famous for I made my best elephant call on the bone. Much to the dismay of the band it worked. The elephant took a step towards us. You can imagine the frantic screams of the woodwinds, telling me to cut it out. Yes, I gave it another try. This time the elephant backed away. Evidently they don't like getting any closer to the trumpets than we do. The worse part of this, after what I consider a superb elephant mating call ... he never calls, he never writes. From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:21:37 -0400 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: New thread...maybe... Message-ID: <200006020025.UAA24338@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" True story...(only trombone related insofar as the beginning of the story was trombonist...true OR false...) Leo Ball, a NYC trumpet player, was hired to replace the trumpet soloist during the NYC engagement of the Ringling Bros., Barnum + Bailey Circus many years ago in Madison Square Garden. The band was situated fairly close to the animal entrance place, and when the line of elephants made their appearance in the show, it was announced by a solo trumpet call. The first time Leo played the call, just as the line of elephants had entered connected trunk to tail, he missed the high vote of the call. The last elephant let go of her predecessor's tail, turned around and gave Leo a VERY dirty look. Next show, the elephants made their entrance, and this time, just as Leo was about to play the trumpet call the ;last elephant AGAIN turned around, with a look like "Well, are you going to miss it AGAIN, fool ???" Of course, Leo was so flummoxed by this that he blew it again, only worse this time. From then on, through the entire run of the show, this same elephant and Leo squared off every night, and no matter how well he played the solo in subsequent performances, the elephant would still turn around and glare at him every show, daring him to mess up again. (Reminds me of some conductors w/whom I've worked...) S, From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:30:17 -0400 From: "hamprod" To: "Trombone list" Subject: Re: Megatones Message-ID: <0cc601bfcbff$d2142da0$ed8556d1@frankham> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Rod, Hope you don't mind my showing your response to the list. > >>Are Megatones 6 1/2 AL used much in jazz? > > >This is a question you should ask the list. I can say from my personal >experience, I can't think of very many jazz players using a Megatone or >other heavy weight mouthpiece. I use a Stork which is similar I think to a >Megatone. Sam Burtis (aka Sabutin) uses a slightly modified Stork on some >of his playing. I think the orchestral players are more into heavier weight >mouthpieces. > >>>If you're playing in an orchestra, you can safely go with something >larger, >>>like a 5G (and probably no smaller than a 6 1/2AL). > >> >>Are the Jet Tones designed with a smaller V cup in mind for the higher >>register? Do they follow the specs in diameter of the Bachs? >> >You'll have to ask the list. I'm not familiar with the Jet Tones, having >never seen one nor heard of anyone playing one. > >Rod > From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:48:59 -0500 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Megatones Message-ID: <007601bfcc34$bdb0a7a0$d41d0f3f@default> Got me on that one. Like I said, I haven't that much of Richard, uh, I mean Arthur's work. KSD -----Original Message----- From: Steve Beck To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 7:04 PM Subject: Re: Megatones > >From: DOWDY, Never found a>problem with Richard Pryor or Glen Miller, >although I have heard more of the>latter than the former. > >I always found Glenn to be funnier than either Arthur or Richard. > From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:55:00 -0500 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Megatones & Nut Crackers Message-ID: <007f01bfcc35$915716c0$d41d0f3f@default> Interesting information, but I'm not sure that I would like to be known for being able to do that with a pecan. I think I'd rather be known for the high F :-) KSD -----Original Message----- From: Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 5:23 PM Subject: RE: Megatones & Nut Crackers > >Ken Dowdy wrote___________________________________________________ >- some of my equipment is used to help >me with some of my many shortcomings. I can't crack walnuts with my >embouchure... > KSD >__________________________________________________________________ > >OK Ken: > >Here's how you crack pecans even with your embouchure. > >1. Clip off both small ends of the pecan with your teeth (or a knife, or a >nut cracker). Just pinch off the end a little bit. This is the secret! > >2. Put pecan between lips and press 'til casing cracks. > >3. Using teeth and lips, in a controlled way roll nut and peel off the >outside cover. > >4. Harvest 2 whole halves and amaze your friends. > >5. Now really impress them and hit a high F !! > > >Rick Marple >San Antonio TX >Home of Pecan Country From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:04:59 -0500 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: TD's mouthpiece Message-ID: <008601bfcc36$f72bb400$d41d0f3f@default> Dean wrote: I like the sound I get using this mouthpiece on my horns. > >It's been my experience that smaller mouthpieces demand more control from the player. Larger mouthpieces seem to >be more forgiving. (One man's opinion.) > I'll second that. I like the sound of the small mouthpieces much more, but controlling them is something else. Kind of like a woman: beautiful, but with a mind of their own. I have been listening to a lot of recordings from the 40s and 50s lately (my wife calls the stuff nursing home music). Listening to some of the trombone solos from that era is really something else. I wish trombones still sounded that way! Guess I was born 30 years too late :-( KSD From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 23:12:06 -0400 From: "Brian" To: Subject: leadpipes Message-ID: <009501bfcc40$564e2b80$114197d8@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0092_01BFCC1E.CDDD97C0"
I recently purchased a new Conn 88HO-DB, with the standard issue Conn leadpipes, S, M, and R.  Aside from a few short statements in the UMI catalogue, I can find no more information about the differences and advantages of each.  Any info anyone could provide would be great, either from equipment knowledge or experience.
 
Thanks for your help.
 
Brian Pappal
 From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:27:00 -0500 From: "Jeff Albert" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: leadpipes Message-ID: <003701bfcc42$6b31d900$3bd74fd8@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01BFCC18.810DA620"
Don't read the descriptions.  You don't want to know what the differences are, that just begins the mind game.  Take your time and play each one.  Listen to each of them, and pick the one that sounds and feels best to YOU.  Then store the other two someplace where you might forget them.
 
Jeff Albert
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian <pappal19@idt.net>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:07 PM
Subject: leadpipes

I recently purchased a new Conn 88HO-DB, with the standard issue Conn leadpipes, S, M, and R.  Aside from a few short statements in the UMI catalogue, I can find no more information about the differences and advantages of each.  Any info anyone could provide would be great, either from equipment knowledge or experience.
 
Thanks for your help.
 
Brian Pappal
 From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 00:10:21 EDT From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: leadpipes Message-ID: <5f.5fa929b.26688dad@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> < Don't read the descriptions. You don't want to know what the differences are, that just begins the mind game. Take your time and play each one. Listen to each of them, and pick the one that sounds and feels best to YOU. Jeff Albert> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yep, that's how I would approach this too. No preconceived notions, just play, listen and perhaps have a note pad to write your observations down. Play as consistently as possible the same set of "try out" tunes and make a chart of you impressions of the differences you hear between the three leadpipes. Maybe even record yourself or, get another set of ears to listen to you and be as detailed and objective as possible in describing what they hear. HOWEVER, it's ultimately what YOU like that will decide which setup is best. Matt Varho From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:34:08 -0800 From: Robert Queisser To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fwd: King bass bones Message-ID: <3891001F.C0234863@foxcomm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Aaron, EMRose79, et al.: > RE: > "King made/makes an 8B. An inline model 2 valves, 11" bell. It's huge! > >I've played one with F & Eb in-line (C in first). > > Does that valve combo mean it could get a "real" double-pedal Ab?" > " Yup. A pretty good one." I've got an 8B, and love it for big band & orchestral work. I thought it would play like a tub(a) when I saw one several years ago. Then, when one came up used in the local paper, I tried it and loved it -- better than the larger Conns and Bachs I've tried. With the 8B I can get enough air through to fill out those low Cs in big band chords. It is also very flexible throughout the normal range, but definitely not a tenor horn sound. High Bb, C & D are easy on the 8B, too. > > I wonder if there's a King 9B.... > "Nope." I believe the 8B is King's largest bass 'bone. -- R. Queisser Seattle, WA From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 00:51:33 EDT From: JoshuaSL@aol.com To: jalbert@bellsouth.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: leadpipes Message-ID: <6b.5093e02.26689755@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree wholeheartedly with this. Descriptions of leadpipes can be VERY misleading. A personal example: Several years ago, when I was in much worse playing shape than I am now, I was at the ETW trying out Edwards horns and making a general pain of myself. I tried the dual bore tenor slide, the Bach style slide with the bass crook, the big leadpipes. Then I tried the standard tenor slide, normal weight with a tenor crook (a la Conn) and a smaller leadpipe. Which felt the most open to me, the smaller slide and leadpipe. The reason was simple. . .I wasn't strong enough to get the sound I wanted out of the larger equipment. Not to say by any means that larger is better, but different thing work for different people. Just because leadpipe "A" has the least resistance according to the catalog does NOT mean it will feel the most open to YOU. Try them all, then use the one you feel best on. Then, maybe in a few months, try them all again. You may very well find a different one works best for you later on. The important thing here is just to try for yourself, not trust the catalog. Joshua In a message dated 6/1/00 11:27:42 PM, jalbert@bellsouth.net writes: >Don't read the descriptions. You don't want to know what the differences >are, that just begins the mind game. Take your time and play each one. > Listen to each of them, and pick the one that sounds and feels best to >YOU. Then store the other two someplace where you might forget them. > > > >Jeff Albert > > From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:17:29 -0700 From: "Michael Towe" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: TD's mouthpiece Message-ID: <002601bfcc51$da0f0d20$03000004@oemcomputer> > >I have been listening to a lot of recordings from the 40s and 50s lately (my >wife calls the stuff nursing home music). Listening to some of the trombone >solos from that era is really something else. I wish trombones still >sounded that way! Guess I was born 30 years too late :-( > >KSD Funny you would mentions this. I just got done listening to some LP's You know the things that my son used to refer to as BIG BLACK CD's ) that a buddy at work handed me. It was an RCA 8 record set done for Readers Digest of all big band stuff. GREAT stuff!!! with some wonderful trombone solos from Dorsey and Miller. Another one I would suggest is a collection of Jimmie Lunceford stuff that is on CD and performed by The American Jazz Orchestra and recorded on the Music Masters Jazz Label. I think I picked it up at Tower for about 8 frog pelts. To me it stands out from allot of the other big band stuff because of the abundant use of the low end instruments. Particularly trombone and barri sax. I found out recently that allot of his early stuff was arranged by Sy Oliver who latter went on to gain fame arranging for Tommy Dorseys band. Which seams a bit strange since the two sounds are so different. Anyway....like you I just love that music. So take heart, you weren't the only one born after your time. Mike.... 34 years old and loving big bands....Towe From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 01:54:40 -0400 From: Bob Byers To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Vive el Rey del Timbal (Tito Puente) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000602015439.007254a0@pop.ne.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I too was saddened by the news of Tito Puente's passing. He always played from the heart, and that's the best place for music to emmanate. At least we can say this world was fortunate to have him actively performing and recording for over SIXTY years!! I tried three times to hear him live. Once I was unable to attend due to severe thunderstorms .. then last winter he was snowed-in and couldn't leave NYC to make his gig here in Boston, and, lastly, for the snowed-out make-up date, Tito cancelled last month due to health reasons .. the heart problems that ultimately did him in. His music and influence will live on for a long time. Any fans out there in trombone land? Recommended recordings? I have just about burned a hole in my "Dance Mania, Vol 1" CD .. recorded in 1957. It sounds as fresh and vibrant as any pop or jazz recording coming out these days - his music just seems ageless. Trombones were not featured, but trumpet section certanily had plenty chances to shine. Music on this CD is highly infectious. If you're not rapidly moving multiple body parts within the first 15 seconds of each track, you better get yourself to a hospital asap, cause there's something seriously wrong with you! There's a reason it was called Dance Mania! However, don't think that takes away from the musicianship .. on the contrary, great players throughout the band. Arrangements were quite well crafted as well. For anyone not familiar with Tito Puente, I strongly recommend "Dance Mania, Vol 1" .. it is one of his best recordings, and is a superb introduction to what his music was all about. [Soap Box: There are times in your trombone life when listening to non-trombone music is about the best thing you can do for your playing. At times, even more important than practicing! We should all listen to great musicians of any instrument, of any genre .. not to analyze and dissect; but to just listen and connect with what the musician is trying to communicate. Do not underestimate the value of listening! Ok, down from soap box!] [BTW- according to ABC News, Tito didn't refer to his music as "Salsa" .. he didn't play "sauce", he played MUSIC! I'll agree with that!] Bob Byers -Andover, MA From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 03:49:50 +0000 From: Jim Seaman To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: "prolifiration of ampliphication" Message-ID: <39372ED9.80375B51@igs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Drover wrote: > > No Steve, you can put it to much better use than that. Take out the > mouthpiece and throw it away. Now have your local repairman adapt the > blowing end so that it will take an oboe reed. Now from your nearest > abattoir, get a large sheep's bladder and cover it with tartan cloth (it > might smell bad for a while). Stick this over the reed. You now need some > means of filling the bag with air; a trumpet lead pipe will do. Finally, > weld your slide so that it cant shift and drill six finger holes along it. > You now have the world's first Bagbone. > > PS. It does not matter where you drill the holes. The distinguishing > feature of the ancient highland instrument is that it must NOT be in tune > with any other instrument, nor with itself. > > PPS. Let me know when you have made the conversion so that I can write my > first Bagbone and Serpent concerto for you and Doug. On second thoughts, > maybe the Serpent might sound too tuneful for this particular duo. Can you > think of anything else that would blend well with a Bagbone? > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ How about a 5th of gin and a tray of ice cubes. After drinking the lot you'd have one hairy buzz on,peut-etre. jim From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 06:33:48 -0400 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: leadpipes Message-ID: <200006021037.GAA22813@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit May I add... W/this or any other equipment choice, do blindfold tests. Not only are the written descriptions confusing...so are your OWN. We often make up our "minds" independently of what's really happening. Just put them leadpipes in the horn and listen. THEN figure out which one's doing what, then do it again. By the 4th or 5th go-round, you'll have some idea of what's really happening. Then, several weeks (days, months, years ?) later, do the same thing again. When you begin to get consistent results, then and only then can you be sure you've made the right decision. This holds true for all equipment choices...even horns. Only when you've thoroughly defeated and confused your preconceptions can you really hear and feel what's going on. Later... S. ================================= At 10:27 PM 6/1/00 -0500, you wrote: > > Don't read the descriptions.  You don't want to know what the differences > are, that just begins the mind game.  Take your time and play each one.  > Listen to each of them, and pick the one that sounds and feels best to YOU.  > Then store the other two someplace where you might forget them. >   > Jeff Albert >   > > www.musiciansvillage.com/jeffalb ert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian <pappal19@idt.net> >> To: Trombones and related issues forum. >> <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu> >> Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:07 PM >> Subject: leadpipes >> >> I recently purchased a new Conn 88HO-DB, with the standard issue Conn >> leadpipes, S, M, and R.  Aside from a few short statements in the UMI >> catalogue, I can find no more information about the differences and >> advantages of each.  Any info anyone could provide would be great, either >> from equipment knowledge or experience. >>   >> Thanks for your help. >>   >> Brian Pappal > From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 06:45:57 -0400 From: Eric To: TROMBONE-L Mailing List , TboneCentral@onelist.com Subject: FS: Conn 88H Slide/YORK Custom Model ("Bach 16") Message-ID: <39379058.916CAEE0@olg.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, I have a Conn 1957 88H slide which I'm offering on eBay...here's the blurb: This vintage CONN 88H slide section is in very good condition. It bears the serial number 625301 which (according to the Music Trader WWW site) dates it to 1957. This slide was manufactured without a slide lock. As to be expected in a slide of this vintage, there is some wear on the stockings-however, the slide works very well. I'm including a generic black plastic case similar in design to the SKB trombone case! Please note that this package includes the slide section only-no bell. Minimum bid is $250.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=346484448 Also still available is a YORK "Custom Model" very similar in design to the Bach 16. This is a great dual bore .500/.509 instrument with a very distinctive sound. Minimum bid has been reduced to $375.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=346508604 Please feel free to e-mail with any questions. Eric Richards ================== ERIC RICHARDS Composer/Arranger Trombone/MIDI For information on music for jazz ensemble: UNC (University of Northern Colorado) JAZZ PRESS: http://arts.unco.edu/uncjazz/jazzpress/composerlist.html WALRUS MUSIC PUBLISHING: http://www.siliconvalleymusic.com/prod01.htm “It’s hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” - Calvin (the cartoon character, not the Reformed theologian) From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:23:23 -0500 From: "Eric Edwards" To: "Trombone-L" , Subject: Fw: Santana tv special Message-ID: <005f01bfcc84$f818fdc0$7739aec7@Flashnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Edwards To: Trombone-L ; Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Santana tv special > Hi all, unfortunately I didn't catch the TV show but I'm pretty sure one of > them is a friend of mine from San Francisco named Jeff Cressman. He is > listed on the album, and I saw him on the Grammies a while back. Great > player and nice guy!! > Eric Edwards > bonearzt@mindspring.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > I just finished watching the Santana special. I noticed that there > were > > not one but two trombonists! Does anyone have any idea who they are? > > Would I be incorrect in stating that Latin popular music utilizes > more > > brass instruments than does American popular music....discounting jazz and > > symphonic? > * > > Richard Zemry Johnson, Jr. > > Bossier Parish Community College Jazz Ensemble > > Shreveport Metropolitan Concert Band > > Impact Band playing "gumbo-funk" > > > > From ???@??? Fri Jun 02 07:11:33 2000 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:36:57 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Vive el Rey del Timbal (Tito Puente) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:54 AM -0400 6/2/00, Bob Byers wrote: >I too was saddened by the news of Tito Puente's passing. He >always played from the heart, and that's the best place for >music to emmanate. ----snip---- >Any fans out there in trombone land? Recommended >recordings? > >I have just about burned a hole in my "Dance Mania, >Vol 1" CD .. recorded in 1957. It sounds as fresh and >vibrant as any pop or jazz recording coming out >these days - his music just seems ageless. I'm with Bob, the Dance Mania discs are a great place to start to hear Tito Puente's band - and what a band!! Actually, my favorite Puente CD (if I had to pick just one) is called "The Best of Dance Mania" which includes selections from BOTH Dance Mania LPs, recorded in 157 and 1960 (RCA/BMG Tropicana Series 4321-21009-2). Available at www.towerrecords.com for $10.99 - you can also hear some sample tracks on the Tower site as well. All I can say is - WOW. I've NEVER heard a band as tight as this one, and a great feature about this CD is that it has alternative takes and out takes as well as Puente counting off before many tunes, rehearsing the band, shouting at them, etc. A real "inside look" at how Puente and the band worked (the CD has a full listing of all personnel as well). Question - can anyone tell me anything about Puente's lead vocalist on the Dance Mania albums, Santitos Colon. You want sultry, passionate, sexy, phrasing, intensity, honesty? Santitos Colon delivers. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * **********************************************