TROMBONE-L Digest 1631 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by Neobopr@aol.com 2) Re: jazz/improv by Wayne Dyess 3) Re: Tuners are our friends by Scott Moore 4) Edwards tenor Tuning slide by "P&J Olsson" 5) RE: Brass Band? by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 6) Golden Rules For Ensemble Playing by Galen Zinn 7) brass band trombonists by Thomas Nelson 8) For Sale: Yamaha YSL-643 by Don Wampler 9) Re: Tuners? by Don Wampler 10) Re: Golden Rules For Ensemble Playing by Douglas Yeo 11) Correction on the YSL-643 by Don Wampler 12) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by Beth Lewis 13) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by Harykoz@aol.com 14) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by Beth Lewis 15) ETW National Solo Winners by "Amoury, Gerard SSG TUSAB" 16) Re: ETW National Solo Winners by David Buckley 17) Tempesto? Hurricaneo???? by "Daniel Pliskin" 18) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by ERNIE PAUL LUKAS 19) Re: brass band trombonists by David Buckley 20) Criticism by Douglas Yeo 21) Re: Criticism by "Stewart M. Crane" 22) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by "Steve Beck" 23) Re: Tempesto? Hurricaneo???? by Randy Campora 24) test by "James Yardley" 25) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by "Kenneth Dowdy" 26) Solo Pieces by FrogXing2@aol.com 27) Finger on the bell by "James Yardley" 28) Re: Solo Pieces by Trmbman@aol.com 29) Finger on the Bell by Roger Carmichael 30) Re: Tromba da tirarsi? by Bodie Pfost 31) Re: Tromba da tirarsi? by Beth Lewis 32) Re: Finger on the bell by Bodie Pfost 33) Re: Tromba da tirarsi? by Bodie Pfost 34) Re: Finger on the bell by sabutin@mindspring.com 35) Re: Finger on the bell by "Dave Mackey" 36) Re: Finger on the bell by Andrew Michael 37) Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! by Neobopr@aol.com 38) gold mouthpieces by "Adolphus Sprott" 39) Re: Finger on the bell by Antonio Henrique Seixas 40) Re: For whom the bell pings (was Finger on the bell) by Matmutt@aol.com 41) Re: gold mouthpieces by Antonio Henrique Seixas 42) Re: gold mouthpieces by JoshuaSL@aol.com 43) Re: For whom the bell pings (was Finger on the bell) by aceftd@aztec.asu.edu (FRANK T. DARMIENTO) 44) Re: For whom the bell pings (was Finger on the bell) by Beth Lewis 45) Slide away from bell by Jim Seaman 46) Re: Slide away from bell - was Finger on the bell by "Dick Sleeman" 47) Re: Finger on the Bell by Philip Brink 48) Only testing - delete by "Dick Sleeman" 49) Re: Finger on the bell by "Dick Sleeman" 50) Re: Slide away from bell by "Dave Mackey" 51) Re: Finger on the bell by "DON FITZSIMONS" From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:29:51 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: <48.30b6a09.2608c53f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/20/00 10:36:16 AM, dave@davemackey.com writes: >the Army Blues aided and abetted by two fine >jazz players, John Fedchock and Deborah Weisz, Hello All, I sent this yesterday but it never came back to me through the list. I was there too and yes it is a great event for trombone. Jerry Amoury and all the rest of the sergeants at Pershings own deserve much credit for the service they have done for us East-Coast Bonists! I only had one problem while there. Listening to Deborah Weisz play. Ouch. Most of us from the other service bands felt very sorry for her. She seemed very nervous almost like she could hardly get notes to speak. I have a feeling she knew that she was way out of her league. I hope she has a better time the rest of the year. Artist/Clinician for Yamaha-Jeff Adams From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:38:12 -0600 From: Wayne Dyess To: daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com Cc: Trombone-L Subject: Re: jazz/improv Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> > Band-in-a-Box allows you to play any song you want, at any tempo, in any >>key, >>> in any style, so it's much more flexible that buying the hundreds of >>Aebersold >>> CDs at $20 or whatever each. > > >Can anyone tell me how Band in a Box compares with Jammer? > >Thanks, > >DanP Here's my impression from seeing Jammer at our local music store: Jammer is more for the POP and country guys. Band-in-a-Box will do those styles, too, but BIAB is really GREAT with Jazz. From the demo's I've seen at our local music store, Jammer doesn't do jazz very well. Anyone on the list actually use it and can testify otherwise? I'd be interested to hear about it... Another advantage of BIAB is -- it is so danged easy to learn and use. --Wayne Dyess __________________________ Wayne Dyess, Professor of Music Lamar University P. O. Box 10044 Beaumont, Texas 77710 409-880-8146 FAX: 409-880-8143 dyessjw@hal.lamar.edu http://www.lamar.edu From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:51:04 -0600 From: Scott Moore To: Subject: Re: Tuners are our friends Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Concerning tuning and all things tuner-related... I am using Coda Technology's Intonation Trainer in my studio and at home with terrific results. For those of you unfamiliar with this software package, what it does is generate chords, tonic intervals or chromatic intervals around the notes you play in order that you learn "just" intonation. It even tests you and creates a chart of your tendancies. Amazing. It works like this: when set it to recognize the note you play as a third of a major chord, any note you play instantly is surrounded by the root and fifth (played thought the computer speakers, so get some good ones) while the tuner points to the point 14 cents lower on the scale where the note should be. A great tool. Those of you who are using Smart Music 5.1 or lower need to be careful how you install the software... it tends to take over some of the sound fonts. Rename the Smart Music folder before you install the Intonation Trainer. Yours, Scott Moore Low Brass, Gustavus Adolphus College www.gac.edu From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:05:26 -0500 From: "P&J Olsson" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Edwards tenor Tuning slide Message-ID: <000701bf933e$86f19d20$1ec444ce@olsson> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi listers! I have an Edwards yellow ,long, single radius tenor tuning slide for sale. Normally $150 (plus $10 shipping) will sell for $118 (includes shipping). You save $42! This Tuning slide is only 2 months old and in brand new condition. John Olsson olsson@tusco.net jolsson@stark.kent.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Instructor of Trombone Kent State University-Stark Campus Malone College Mt. Union College West Liberty State College ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Canton Symphony Orchestra Wheeling Symphony Orchestra Sounds of Sousa Band From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:30:50 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Brass Band? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thomas Nelson wrote, > I was just wondering how many of us on this list are members of a brass > band? > > I'll be nice and include the directors as well. > > (I was just wondering this with the North American Brass Band > Championships coming up this month > I am a member of Prairie Brass Band and will be at the NABBA meeting in Columbus. (Too bad the other responses to this question have not included the name of the band and whether the person will be in Columbus. I have enjoyed meeting with listers the past two championships and hope to meet some others next month.!) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:47:14 -0700 From: Galen Zinn To: Trombone List Subject: Golden Rules For Ensemble Playing Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just For Fun Golden Rules For Ensemble Playing 1. Everyone should play the same piece. 2. Stop at every repeat sign, and discuss in detail whether to take the repeat. The audience will love this a lot! 3. If you play a wrong note, give a nasty look to one of your partners. 4. Keep your fingering chart handy. You can always catch up with the others. 5. Carefully tune your instrument before playing. That way you can play out of tune all night with a clear conscience. 6. Take your time turning pages. 7. The right note at the wrong time is a wrong note (and vice versa). 8. If everyone gets lost except you, follow those who get lost. 9. Strive to get the maximum NPS (notes per second). That way you gain the admiration of the incompetent. 10. Markings for slurs, dynamics and ornaments should not be observed. They are only there to embellish the score. 11. If a passage is difficult, slow down. If it's easy, speed it up. Everything will work itself out in the end. 12. If you are completely lost, stop everyone and say, "I think we should tune." 13. Happy are those who have not perfect pitch, for the kingdom of music is theirs. 14. If the ensemble has to stop because of you, explain in detail why you got lost. Everyone will be very interested. 15. A true interpretation is realized when there remains not one note of the original. 16. When everyone else has finished playing, you should not play any notes you have left. If you have notes left over, please play them on the way home. 17. A wrong note played timidly is a wrong note. A wrong note played with authority is an interpretation. Galen Zinn E-mail: zinger@musician.org =========================<>=========================== * PATIENCE * FANATICISM * PERFORMANCE * PERSEVERANCE * * DETERMINATION * OBSESSION * DEDICATION * * DISCIPLINE * DRIVING FORCE * * ATTITUDE * APTITUDE * * BALANCE * ==============<> E X C E L L E N C E <>=============== Burma Shave From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: 21 Mar 2000 11:27:34 -0500 From: Thomas Nelson To: Subject: brass band trombonists Message-ID: <-1258484447TNelson@tipton.k12.ia.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was quite surprised that there are 13 trombonists and one conductor that are part of this list, and it's even rumored that the conductor plays trombone too! One of my responders (ees?) mentioned a get together at NABBA- anyone else interested? -- Thomas L. Nelson Band Director, Tipton High School, Tipton, Iowa "Gig Guy" & Bass Trombonist Eastern Iowa Brass Band Check out the Eastern Iowa Brass Band at: http://soli.inav.net/~eibb/more.html From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:28:13 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: "trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu" Subject: For Sale: Yamaha YSL-643 Message-ID: <38D7B12D.556416F6@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm posting this as a favor to a colleague. He has a friend whose son played the trombone in college and now wants to sell his horn. It's a Yamaha model YSL 643, Serial No. 010541. My friend says it's .547 bore, rose brass bell, F attachment, finish very good, slide is very good, case is very good...in excellent condition. Price negotiable, he'll pay shipping charges. If you're interested, email me and I'll forward it on so that he can call you. Thanks. From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:35:24 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: "trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu" Subject: Re: Tuners? Message-ID: <38D7B2DC.5B2A2EE1@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike, You've had good response on your tuner question but I'll throw in my two cents, 1. I buzz on the mouthpiece and "free buzz" while I warm up or do long tones and my Korg CA-20 helps me concentrate on really centering the pitch without relying on the horn for help. You have to "nail" the note when not using the horn or the tuner won't recognize it - I guess because of all the extraneous waves and overtones that are bumping around when the horn isn't there to help center them. Once I focus the buzz well enough that the tuner locks in, I try to challenge myself to "freeze the needle" exactly in tune. The tuner helps me concentrate on reducing the subtle pitch variences that I wasn't that concerned with before. I've found that this has helped me listen more critically to each note that I play on the horn, both for intonation and tone quality. 2. Also, I purchased a used Minick awhile back after playing only an 88H for years, and it's amazing how different it's upper partials are even though the lower partial positions are nearly identical. I've found it useful to use the tuner to zero in on these during practice and gain confidence in the true positions for each horn. 3. Lastly, I feel like I have a good ear, but using a tuner during practice is very humbling and helps me feel a lot less "cocky" about my performance intonation. There are few things worse than playing beside someone who is out of tune and believes that it's everyone else's problem...just ask the folks I play with. :-) Seriously, your statements below are correct: each note must be tuned to it's placement in the chord and the ensemble at a given point in time, but knowing where the note usually plays on the tuner during various conditions (cold horn, fatigue, pp or ff) helps you know how to adjust when it matters. I guess that was "three cents" wasn't it? >Can you (and anybody else with insight) >say a bit more about the tuner: why, >what kind, how do you use it/benefit >from it, etc.? I've always thought >tuning consisted of > >(Step 1): Tune to the oboe or the >piano or whatever else the boss says to >tune to, and >(Step 2): Listen carefully all >the time you're playing. > >I've obviously missed >some nuances. > >Mike Bennett From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:49:16 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Golden Rules For Ensemble Playing Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 8:47 AM -0700 3/21/00, Galen Zinn wrote: >Just For Fun > >Golden Rules For Ensemble Playing > > 1. Everyone should play the same piece. > > 2. Stop at every repeat sign, and discuss in detail whether to > take the repeat. The audience will love this a lot! etc... And, for some excellent REAL advice on what to do on the job, see Robert Fraser's excellent comments on ensemble etiquette which are posted on my website at: http://www.yeodoug.com/etiquette.html -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:56:29 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: "trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu" Subject: Correction on the YSL-643 Message-ID: <38D7C5DD.F662AAED@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this correction from a fellow list member on the bore size of the YSL-643 in case anyone is interested: ----------- Don, ...I thought I'd let you know that the bore on the 643 was .551, not .547. (Ok, yeah, I know, not much different, but in the interests of accuaracy . . .) Anyway, Yamaha has a good website to refer to: www.yamaha.com/band Good luck selling the horn. From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:47:04 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Neobopr@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jeff, I thought about replying to this privately, but in case anyone else decides to "jump in" on this topic, I'm posting it here. Please don't take this as a flame (we're all entitled to our own opinions after all), but I have to question the appropriateness of such criticism for the list. The music world is a small one, so word gets around fast (often REALLY fast in our case). When you post something, good or bad, about a trombonist's playing/equipment/anything on _trombone-l_, which is subscribed to by around a thousand from around the world, it's_extremely_ likely that your post will be forwarded to the trombonist in question very quickly via an acquaintance/student/colleague (etc) (provided the person in question isn't already subscribed). This could cost you a few gigs some day (but then it might not- who knows?). So if you would not say it to the person's face, give it some serious thought before posting it to a public forum. no flames- just some friendly advice, Beth Lewis On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 Neobopr@aol.com wrote: > I only had one problem while there. Listening to Deborah Weisz play. Ouch. > Most of us from the other service bands felt very sorry for her. She seemed > very nervous almost like she could hardly get notes to speak. I have a > feeling she knew that she was way out of her league. I hope she has a better > time the rest of the year. > > Artist/Clinician for > Yamaha-Jeff Adams > > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:17:07 EST From: Harykoz@aol.com To: ealewis@indiana.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/00 1:48:39 PM Central Standard Time, ealewis@indiana.edu writes: << Please don't take this as a flame (we're all entitled to our own opinions after all), but I have to question the appropriateness of such criticism for the list. >> Beth, Personally, I disagree with you. Jeff offered his personal opinion and signed his name to it. He offered an honest review of a performance given by another trombone player. If it was a bad performance, he is justified to give an honest review. Quite honestly, I was told the same as Jeff reported to the list by others who were in attendance. I really did not think that Jeff's review was all that harsh. Hary Kozlowski From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:02:10 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Harykoz@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hary, Point taken, but that's why I wrote "we're all entitled to our own opinions." Jeff's taste and/or the performance in question aren't what I'm concerned about, but the fact that anything written in this forum can be forwarded to anyone (including the subject of the criticism) is why I questioned the judgment of posting such matter. "What goes around comes around." But if you don't care whether the subject of criticism is eventually forwarded the post, fuggedaboutit (but consider that the person criticized probably won't!). Beth On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 Harykoz@aol.com wrote: > > Beth, > > Personally, I disagree with you. Jeff offered his personal opinion and signed > his name to it. He offered an honest review of a performance given by another > trombone player. If it was a bad performance, he is justified to give an > honest review. Quite honestly, I was told the same as Jeff reported to the > list by others who were in attendance. > > I really did not think that Jeff's review was all that harsh. > > Hary Kozlowski > > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:49 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:29:36 -0500 From: "Amoury, Gerard SSG TUSAB" To: "'trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu'" Subject: ETW National Solo Winners Message-ID: <66419F87BBAAD31199BF0008C7E64E594F1E6B@NTEXCHANGE059a.fmmc.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ladies and Gentlemen, This year's National Solo Competition of the Eastern Trombone Workshop was fantastic. Thank you to all of the trombonists who participated. The tapes we received were top drawer! We invited 22 soloists out of the 50 tapes submitted to compete in the semifinal round on March 16th. 10 were selected to perform on an open recital for the final round on the 17th. It is my pleasure to announce the winners of this year's competition: Tenor Division I; David Concertino Op. 4 Brad Williams St. Petersburg, FL Tenor Division II; Grondahl Concerto Jamie Williams New York, NY Tenor Division III; Tomasi Concerto Clifford Moore Tallahassee, FL Bass Division II; Defaye Deux Danses Eric Tucker Smyrna, TN Bass Division III; Gregson Concerto for Tuba Lee Watts Lexington, KY This kind of event would not be possible without the support of parents and instructors who work with these musicians every day. Thank you to all of those involved with the continued growth and development of tomorrow's trombonists/musicians. Take care and we will see you at next year's workshop!! ---SSG Jerry Amoury ---US Army Band From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:53:17 -0500 From: David Buckley To: AmouryG@fmmc.army.mil Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ETW National Solo Winners Message-ID: <38D7EF4D.5803FADD@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was at the finals and can attest to the quality of the playing. Managed to pick all the winners except division 3 bass trom which I thought was very close. Thanks to all the band members who go the extra mile to make this a great event. Dave Buckley. "Amoury, Gerard SSG TUSAB" wrote: > Ladies and Gentlemen, > This year's National Solo Competition of the Eastern Trombone Workshop > was fantastic. Thank you to all of the trombonists who participated. The > tapes we received were top drawer! We invited 22 soloists out of the 50 > tapes submitted to compete in the semifinal round on March 16th. 10 were > selected to perform on an open recital for the final round on the 17th. It > is my pleasure to announce the winners of this year's competition: > > Tenor Division I; David Concertino Op. 4 > > Brad Williams St. Petersburg, FL > > Tenor Division II; Grondahl Concerto > > Jamie Williams New York, NY > > Tenor Division III; Tomasi Concerto > > Clifford Moore Tallahassee, FL > > Bass Division II; Defaye Deux Danses > > Eric Tucker Smyrna, TN > > Bass Division III; Gregson Concerto for Tuba > > Lee Watts Lexington, KY > > This kind of event would not be possible without the support of parents > and instructors who work with these musicians every day. Thank you to all > of those involved with the continued growth and development of tomorrow's > trombonists/musicians. Take care and we will see you at next year's > workshop!! > > ---SSG Jerry Amoury > ---US Army Band From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:50:05 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Tempesto? Hurricaneo???? Message-ID: <20000321215006.68669.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear list, I was listening to an interview of a Cuban jazz player, who was talking about that particular form of jazz. In United Statesian jazz, itâs common for a group the play the head, do some jamming in 12-bar blues and only return to the head at the end of the piece. In Cuban jazz, tunes are more likes to jam on a two or three chord riff, that I recall has a name that sounds like some sort of storm, with an ãoä added to the end. ÎProblem is, I canât, for the life of me, recall what storm that was. Now, I know it wasnât a tornado, Îcause that already has an ãoä at the end, but was it a ãtempestoä? Anyone know? Thanks, in advance, DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:00:07 -0600 From: ERNIE PAUL LUKAS To: Beth Lewis , trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: <38D7F0E7.FD091CCE@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beth Lewis wrote: > I'm concerned about, but the fact that anything written in this forum can > be forwarded to anyone (including the subject of the criticism) is why I > questioned the judgment of posting such matter. I thought that it was understood that trombone-l postings are open for the world to see. I have no problems with an opinion being expressed as long as it is not a personal attack. Get over it. If you cannot accept criticism or unfavorable reviews, then don't perform in public. Has the liberal's "creeping rot" concept of political correctness extended to music business as well? They are already well along the way to eliminating the first amendment by attempting to force campaign finance reform, which is a veiled attempt to give the popular media absolute control over the political campaign rhetoric that the American people are allowed to hear. And the attempt to eliminate the second amendment by restricting the firearms sold to law-abiding citizens. Gotta go practice my trombone. ERNIE PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:02:59 -0500 From: David Buckley To: Thomas Nelson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: brass band trombonists Message-ID: <38D7F192.73082B46@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry I will not be there for the get together, sounds like fun. Unfortunately the band I play with after not doing well a couple of times has decided that the effort and time to prepare are better spent in other ways. I'm not a big fan of competing but it does get players to work hard and often achieve new heights. Then you can have a shot at maintaining those heights. Plus its great to hear other bands. Have a good time all. Dave Buckley. Thomas Nelson wrote: > I was quite surprised that there are 13 trombonists and one conductor that are part of this list, and it's even rumored that the conductor plays trombone too! > > One of my responders (ees?) mentioned a get together at NABBA- anyone else interested? > > -- > Thomas L. Nelson > Band Director, Tipton High School, Tipton, Iowa > "Gig Guy" & Bass Trombonist Eastern Iowa Brass Band > Check out the Eastern Iowa Brass Band at: > http://soli.inav.net/~eibb/more.html From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:08:29 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Criticism Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 4:02 PM -0500 3/21/00, Beth Lewis wrote: > >Point taken, but that's why I wrote "we're all entitled to our own >opinions." [X's] taste and/or the performance in question aren't what >I'm concerned about, but the fact that anything written in this forum can >be forwarded to anyone (including the subject of the criticism) is why I >questioned the judgment of posting such matter. This brings to mind the whole subject of music criticism, of which volumes have been written and opinions will always rage. Yes, the internet is a potent tool and things can go around and around and around. Good stuff and bad stuff. Stuff you want the world to know and stuff you wish everyone would forget. I've personally had both kinds of things. You love it when your good stuff comes around and just pray the bad stuff would die. Usually the good stuff dies sooner than the bad stuff. But the nature of us as performers and as public personae means that when we put something out there, it's out there. Everyone has bad days, or says things they regret and wish they could put the genie back in the bottle. When criticism comes - justified or not - we all have to learn to take it. You can't lose sleep over a bad review (whether from your mother, the NY Times or the internet) nor should you frame the good reviews. It's all part of the cycle of performing. You gotta roll with it. Either learn from it or fuggedeboudit. We don't know really what bad reviews are, anyway. Nicolas Slonimsky's "Lexicon of Musical Invective: Critical Assaults on Composers Since Beethoven's Time" is a great read (Washington Paperback). And a reminder that times and tastes change (thank goodness!). Try this little item written about Anton Bruckner (March 22, 1886): "We recoil in horror before this rotting odor which rushes into our nostrils from the disharmonies of this putrefactive counterpoint. [Bruckner's] imagination is so incurably sick and warped that anything like regularity in chord progressions and periodic structure simply do not exist for him. Bruckner composes like a drunkard!" Yet harsh criticism is not limited to the distant past. I have saved a pungent review by Alex Ross from the NY Times of February 15, 1995 of an orchestra that gave a concert in New York (not the NY Phil) in which the critic wrote (of a performance of Ein Heldenleben): ===== "[The conductor] has a certifiable flair for Strauss, and he efficiently managed this work's difficult transitions. He drew out wondrously intimate, poetic playing in the final section, with handsome solo turns from the concertmaster, [John Doe]. This effect was unfortunately destroyed in the last few measures by another brass catastrophe: the trombones, who had been emitting ghastly sounds all night, blared too loudly in the 'Zarathustra' fanfare, obliterating the top trumpet line." ===== Wow... In any case, if you ever are on the receiving end of a bad review which you think unjustified, there is probably no better retort than that of Max Reger who write to the Munich critic Rudolf Louis: "Ich sitze in dem kleinsten Zimmer in meinem House. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im nŠchsten Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein." ==== "I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me." ===== -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:36:39 -0500 From: "Stewart M. Crane" To: "Trombone List" , Subject: Re: Criticism Message-ID: <008d01bf9397$63e092b0$0101a8c6@stewart> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speaking of criticism of Bruckner, didn't Brahms call Bruckner's symphonies "boa constrictors?" That's much worse than some drivel from a so-called music critic! Stewart Crane ----- Original Message ----- Try this little item written about Anton Bruckner (March > 22, 1886): > > "We recoil in horror before this rotting odor which rushes into our > nostrils from the disharmonies of this putrefactive counterpoint. > [Bruckner's] imagination is so incurably sick and warped that > anything like regularity in chord progressions and periodic structure > simply do not exist for him. Bruckner composes like a drunkard!" > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:35:12 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: <005101bf939e$df67c960$7b0c0923@becks.cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm with Beth on this one. If you can't say anything nice about someone's performance why bother trashing them? If there was anything of informational value in the original message trashing Ms. Weisz playing it escaped me. -Steve From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:02:26 -0500 From: Randy Campora To: daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tempesto? Hurricaneo???? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000321205322.00952ea0@mail.telephonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I wonder if you are referring to Cuban salsa, or if salsa in Cuba and Jazz in Cuba share some elements (certainly they must). Way back in my college days at FSU, I was in the Salsa band for a semester and I had to do a paper for my Ethnomusicology class so I did it on the musical forms of Salsa, did it in Spanish for extra credit. It's been a long time, but I seem to remember that one section of the standard Salsa song form was called "Montuno", but I might have this wrong. Are there any real Salseros out there to set me straight? I hope so. When I started playing Salsa, I was impressed at the level of sophistication of the structure of the form, the talent of the vocalists for improvisation (it's not scat singing, it's improvising on the tune and the words of the tune), and the concept that all salsa tunes are based on a 2+3 or a 3+2 rhythm, played on the Claves. I also wonder if this is how the Claves got their name, in that the word itself means the key to a puzzle or the keystone of an arch and in musical terms means "clef", the rhythm it plays throughout the tune is indeed the rhythmical key to the entire piece. If the guy playing the claves is wrong, the whole thing collapses like at bad soufle. At 04:50 PM 3/21/00 , Daniel Pliskin wrote: >Dear list, > >I was listening to an interview of a Cuban jazz player, who was talking >about that particular form of jazz. In United Statesian jazz, it's common >for a group the play the head, do some jamming in 12-bar blues and only >return to the head at the end of the piece. > >In Cuban jazz, tunes are more likes to jam on a two or three chord riff, >that I recall has a name that sounds like some sort of storm, with an "o" >added to the end. 'Problem is, I can't, for the life of me, recall what >storm that was. Now, I know it wasn't a tornado, 'cause that already has >an "o" at the end, but was it a "tempesto"? > >Anyone know? > >Thanks, in advance, > >DanP > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > -Randy Campora ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra Peabody Conservatory of Music campora@peabody.jhu.edu 410-461-1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:28:51 -0600 From: "James Yardley" To: "Trombone-L forum." Subject: test Message-ID: <002501bf93a6$5f2e7e80$e3e6fea9@james> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My posts don't seem to be making it to the list. The last two I've tried posting haven't made it. If this one gets through, I'll try resending the others. James Yardley Bass Trombone From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:54:11 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: <006e01bf93a9$e874fb80$311d0f3f@default> Very well said! I didn't learn a lot about Ms. Weisz, but I learned a lot about some others. Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Steve Beck To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:36 PM Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! >I'm with Beth on this one. If you can't say anything nice about someone's >performance why bother trashing them? If there was anything of >informational value in the original message trashing Ms. Weisz playing it >escaped me. > > > -Steve > > > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:05:19 EST From: FrogXing2@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Solo Pieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey List, Well, I just finished solo ensemble. I got a 1- if anyone is wondering. . .I played Hasse Suite which was recommended by another Listie. I was just wondering if you guys have any suggestions for next year. Maybe a little more difficult than Hasse Suite? I have a whole year to prepare. I am getting ready early this time. :o) Thanks, Rhiannon From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:26:45 -0600 From: "James Yardley" To: "Trombone-L forum." Subject: Finger on the bell Message-ID: <003701bf93ae$74121d40$e3e6fea9@james> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listers, I hope I'm not opening a big can of worms here, but I have to share this with you. Yesterday and today, I had the pleasure of hearing Conrad Herwig and Brian Lynch play concerts at the University of Minnesota - Duluth. I won't even try to describe how amazing Conrad is because I know I couldn't even come close with words. I have his "Latin Side of Coltrane" CD and I knew he was great, but I was not expecting anything of that caliber. I even worked up the nerve to go talk to him and have him sign my CD cover. It was really great! Now about this nasty habit that some trombonists have (or is it). I've been taught to never put my finger on the bell when going to 3rd position (or any position for that matter). But yesterday, when I was sitting in my chair with my jaw on the floor listening to Conrad, I did a double take when he put his finger on his bell. I couldn't believe my eyes. Conrad Herwig put his finger on the bell and continued to do so the rest of the night. This is in NO WAY meant to be a "dis" on Mr. Herwig. He's an outstanding player! Simply amazing. I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an unforgivable sin? James Yardley Bass Trombone From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:32:31 EST From: Trmbman@aol.com To: FrogXing2@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Solo Pieces Message-ID: <8e.2b30197.260998cf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You might want to try the Telemann Sonata in F minor. Or you can do the Rimsky-Korsakov Concerto, or maybe the Morceau Symphonique. All are great pieces, I have played them all, all though the Telemann is my favorite. I will be playing all of them in the near future for a recital. Trombone and Euphonium Player Visit my Webpage at Http://Wactrm.tripod.com or contact me at Trmbman@aol.com From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:50:00 -0500 From: Roger Carmichael To: "trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu" Subject: Finger on the Bell Message-ID: <38D842E7.3A59E689@netunlimited.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an unforgivable sin?" I do it and I hate it! My first Trombone instructor taught me some 45 years ago to touch the bell moving the slide out to find 3rd position and to touch the bell moving in to find 4th. This was in my first-ever lesson. The only other instructor I ever had told me about five years ago that I didn't need to do that anymore, as I had mastered that bell-touching quite well. It is still a tough habit to break, however. If I'm playing a slow passage, I do not ever come near the bell, but on 16th runs, etc, I find myself nicking the bell all the time. Other than sawing off the tips of my fingers, anybody have a foolproof method to stop this practice? Roger Carmichael Bass Trombonist Burt Massengale Big Band Greensboro Big Band Greensboro Concert Band Province Brass (Quintet) Randolph Jazz Band From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:50 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:58:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bodie Pfost To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Tromba da tirarsi? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Last summer my university's brass consort performed a few of the Bach Cantatas. One used four sackbuts (satb), one used sackbuts and cornetti, and one used sackbuts and the tramba da tirarsi. The faculty advisor for our group played a tramba da tirarsi that he had put together using various trombone and trumpet parts. It sounded great, but it's hell to tune. -- Bodie Pfost Humboldt State University > In the complete Bach cantata recordings issued years ago on Telefunken, a > couple different solutions were tried: Nicolaus Harnoncourt had his trumpet > player (Ralph Bryant) play these parts on a tenor trombone with a trumpet > mouthpiece! (At least that's what I remember Ralph telling me.) Gustav > Leonhardt's trumpet player (Don Smithers) tried lipping the non-harmonic > tones into place (i.e., without using a slide) with sometimes amazing, > sometimes > ehh... less than amazing results. > > Howard From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Bodie Pfost Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tromba da tirarsi? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII So what are the major differences between the tromba da tirarsi and modern slide trumpets (soprano trombones)? Beth On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Bodie Pfost wrote: > Last summer my university's brass consort performed a few of the Bach > Cantatas. One used four sackbuts (satb), one used sackbuts and cornetti, > and one used sackbuts and the tramba da tirarsi. The faculty advisor for > our group played a tramba da tirarsi that he had put together using > various trombone and trumpet parts. It sounded great, but it's hell to > tune. > > -- > Bodie Pfost > Humboldt State University > > > > > In the complete Bach cantata recordings issued years ago on Telefunken, a > > couple different solutions were tried: Nicolaus Harnoncourt had his trumpet > > player (Ralph Bryant) play these parts on a tenor trombone with a trumpet > > mouthpiece! (At least that's what I remember Ralph telling me.) Gustav > > Leonhardt's trumpet player (Don Smithers) tried lipping the non-harmonic > > tones into place (i.e., without using a slide) with sometimes amazing, > > sometimes > > ehh... less than amazing results. > > > > Howard > > > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: Bodie Pfost To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think that the most common belief is that when you use your finger to find third position it slows you down. I personally broke the habit when I got a trombone where I can't reach the bell from the slide. I will sometimes use the bell to find fourth position on my alto sackbutt however. My $0.02, Bodie Pfost On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, James Yardley wrote: > Dear Listers, > > I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the > bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an > unforgivable sin? > > James Yardley > Bass Trombone > > > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: Bodie Pfost To: Beth Lewis Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tromba da tirarsi? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The tromba da tirarsi has only one slide tube, as mentioned before. The mouthpiece fits in to this tube. The player holds the mouthpiece to the face between two fingers of one hand, and with the other hand moves the instrument into about four different positions. The modern slide trumpets obviously have two slide tubes and are held and played like a trombone. -- Bodie Pfost On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Beth Lewis wrote: > So what are the major differences between the tromba da tirarsi and modern > slide trumpets (soprano trombones)? > > Beth > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Bodie Pfost wrote: > > > Last summer my university's brass consort performed a few of the Bach > > Cantatas. One used four sackbuts (satb), one used sackbuts and cornetti, > > and one used sackbuts and the tramba da tirarsi. The faculty advisor for > > our group played a tramba da tirarsi that he had put together using > > various trombone and trumpet parts. It sounded great, but it's hell to > > tune. > > > > -- > > Bodie Pfost > > Humboldt State University > > > > > > > > > In the complete Bach cantata recordings issued years ago on Telefunken, a > > > couple different solutions were tried: Nicolaus Harnoncourt had his trumpet > > > player (Ralph Bryant) play these parts on a tenor trombone with a trumpet > > > mouthpiece! (At least that's what I remember Ralph telling me.) Gustav > > > Leonhardt's trumpet player (Don Smithers) tried lipping the non-harmonic > > > tones into place (i.e., without using a slide) with sometimes amazing, > > > sometimes > > > ehh... less than amazing results. > > > > > > Howard > > > > > > > > From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:21:53 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: yardleys@prodigy.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: <200003220422.XAA01420@granger.mail.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:26 PM 3/21/00 -0600, you wrote: >Dear Listers, > > I hope I'm not opening a big can of worms here, but I have to share this >with you. > > Yesterday and today, I had the pleasure of hearing Conrad Herwig and >Brian Lynch play concerts at the University of Minnesota - Duluth. I won't >even try to describe how amazing Conrad is because I know I couldn't even >come close with words. I have his "Latin Side of Coltrane" CD and I knew he >was great, but I was not expecting anything of that caliber. I even worked >up the nerve to go talk to him and have him sign my CD cover. It was really >great! > > Now about this nasty habit that some trombonists have (or is it). I've >been taught to never put my finger on the bell when going to 3rd position >(or any position for that matter). But yesterday, when I was sitting in my >chair with my jaw on the floor listening to Conrad, I did a double take when >he put his finger on his bell. I couldn't believe my eyes. Conrad Herwig >put his finger on the bell and continued to do so the rest of the night. >This is in NO WAY meant to be a "dis" on Mr. Herwig. He's an outstanding >player! Simply amazing. > > I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the >bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an >unforgivable sin? > >James Yardley >Bass Trombone ================== James... Don't do it. If Conrad didn't do it, he'd be even better. Really... It interrupts the smooth flow of the slide through 3rd + 4th positions...a very necessary thing throughout the registers below 6th partial F, if you want to be able to play smoothly and flowingly there. It's easy enough to stop... Just STOP. Later... S. From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:34:38 -0500 From: "Dave Mackey" To: Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: <003201bf93b7$efa799e0$9943c7d0@DaveMackey> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the > bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an > unforgivable sin? Apparently it is, since a college trombonist I know of had his clock cleaned during a master class with a highly regarded trombonist for doing just that -- putting fingers on the bell in third position. Though I caught quite a few people doing it at Eastern... Dave Mackey From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:41:44 -0800 From: Andrew Michael To: yardleys@prodigy.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:26 PM -0600 3/21/00, James Yardley wrote: > I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the >bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an >unforgivable sin? Issac Stern taps his toes. He's still pretty good. :-) Andy From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:37:57 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ETW 2000 is in the books! Message-ID: <38.398646f.2609a825@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/00 3:48:47 PM, neobopr@aol.com writes: >Most of us from the other service bands felt very sorry for her. She seemed >very nervous almost like she could hardly get notes to speak. I have >a feeling she knew that she was way out of her league. I hope she has >a better time the rest of the year. When I re-read what I wrote, it sounds sympathetic to me, not harsh. We really did feel sorry for her. It seemed like she was battling with the basics all of her portion of the program. Notes literally would not speak and pitches would not center. Artist/Clinician for Yamaha-Jeff Adams From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:33:55 -0600 From: "Adolphus Sprott" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: gold mouthpieces Message-ID: <000a01bf93b7$d9cc3400$03e2490c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently bought a DE mouthpiece with a gold rim, and I love the feel of the gold rim as compared to the silver. I have seen some people who have a mouthpiece that is entirely gold. I understand needing the soft feel of a gold rim, but what is the purpose of having a gold cup and shank? Is this just a fashion thing, or is there a real advantage/disadvantage to having gold plating on the cup and shank of your mouthpiece? Weston Sprott From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:16:35 -0300 From: Antonio Henrique Seixas To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: <005d01bf93bd$cc62eb00$3f9dffc8@webhouse.psi.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listers: This is a very common habit here in Brazil, that I simply hate. There is another big problem : there are some trombones that have the bell a little bit down because their slides are smaller. So when you change the horn some people becomes crazy, because the third position is not at the same place!! Professor Gagliardi, my teacher during several years, also says that for those people who likes to put the finger on the bell there might be a special trombone with seven bells. One bell for each position... All the best, Antonio Henrique Seixas Bass Trombone - Brazilian Symphony Orchestra - www.osb.com.br Weril Musical Instruments Artist - www.weril.com.br Brazilian Trombone Association General Secretary seixas@whouse.com.br From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:21:43 EST From: Matmutt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: For whom the bell pings (was Finger on the bell) Message-ID: <6c.251c849.2609b267@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/00 11:23:29 PM EST, sabutin@mindspring.com writes: << It interrupts the smooth flow of the slide through 3rd + 4th positions...a very necessary thing throughout the registers below 6th partial F, if you want to be able to play smoothly and flowingly there. It's easy enough to stop... Just STOP. >> I'd agree, you don't want to do it. I was overdubbing a solo on a CD trac a few months ago and the sound guy had to tell me the mike was picking up the "pings" every time my nail hit the bell. But easy to stop? No. I've tried to avoid the habit for years and still catch myself doing it occasionally ( or get caught in the act) . Larry Priori ( the passionate amateur) From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:25:12 -0300 From: Antonio Henrique Seixas To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: gold mouthpieces Message-ID: <007201bf93be$ffc47e40$3f9dffc8@webhouse.psi.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Adolphus: For me having a goldplated mouthpiece is something necessary. A silverplated mouthpiece starts pulling the silver out in three months, because I have a very strong uric acid. So a goldplated mouthpiece resists for six - eight months. And the rim is much more confortable... Antonio Henrique Seixas Bass Trombone - Brazilian Symphony Orchestra - www.osb.com.br Weril Musical Instruments Artist - www.weril.com.br Brazilian Trombone Association General Secretary seixas@whouse.com.br From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:28:08 EST From: JoshuaSL@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: gold mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/22/00 12:13:38 AM, weslanke@worldnet.att.net writes: >I recently bought a DE mouthpiece with a gold rim, and I love the feel >of the gold rim as compared to the silver. I have seen some people who have >a mouthpiece that is entirely gold. I understand needing the soft feel of >a gold rim, but what is the purpose of having a gold cup and shank? Is this >just a fashion thing, or is there a real advantage/disadvantage to having >gold plating on the cup and shank of your mouthpiece? > >Weston Sprott Well, from what I've heard, read, and learned at work, there are a couple potential reasons for this. On the esoteric side, there are some that claim that the gold interior of the cup and backbore actually give the tone a bit more warmth. I'm not sure if there is much validity to this for trombone mouthpieces, but it does seem to help flutes a bit where some models have gold plated lip plates and the entire inside of the headjoint (Armstrong 80B, Gemeinhardt and Yamahas with gold lip plates). Another possibility, and probably the more logical one in my mind, is simple economics. Plating places an incredibly thin layer of one metal on top of another. Thus, for a mouthpiece, the actual quantity of gold would make little difference from the point of view of the manufacturer. The process of electroplating, however, is simplified by plating the whole mouthpiece. I remember in high school chem lab silver plating a penny. While not of the quality of commercial plating, it was fairly simple. It is probably quite a bit more expensive to plate part of a mouthpiece (Yamaha Signature Series eg: Doug Yeo's) that a mouthpiece as a whole. In fact, I wish I knew exactly how they did that. Just as a side note to this, one of the reasons gold plating is so much more expensive than silver plating is gold doesn't plate well over brass. You will notice gold plated mouthpieces are first plated in silver, and then plated AGAIN in gold. . .two platings, twice the metal used, higher price. As a side note, notice the DE mouthpieces have raw brass shanks. Why? Well, you never touch the shank to your lips in playing and it will be worn off over time by receiver contact anyways. L8r, Joshua From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:38:15 -0700 (MST) From: aceftd@aztec.asu.edu (FRANK T. DARMIENTO) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: For whom the bell pings (was Finger on the bell) Message-ID: <200003220638.XAA14312@aztec2.asu.edu> >I'd agree, you don't want to do it. I was overdubbing a solo on a CD trac a >few months ago and the sound guy had to tell me the mike was picking up the >"pings" every time my nail hit the bell. But easy to stop? No. I've tried to >avoid the habit for years and still catch myself doing it occasionally ( or >get caught in the act) . > > Larry Priori ( the passionate amateur) I have a few middle school students, and except for the one I started from scratch (a former clarinetist) they all did the finger on the bell technique. I simply kept a roll of masking tape next to the music stand, and would tape their right hand to the slide whenever they touched the bell. After one or two lessons, we pretty much had the problem licked. Of course, I always approached it in a light-hearted manner, but they got the point. And I also made a point of explaining the rationale for keeping the finger off the bell. (Speed and fluidity, as Sam pointed out.) Although it might be tough to tape your own hand to your slide. And super-glue might be a little too permanent, so . . . -- Frank T. Darmiento (e-mail: aceftd@aztec.asu.edu) Scottsdale, Arizona From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:14:27 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: "FRANK T. DARMIENTO" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: For whom the bell pings (was Finger on the bell) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, FRANK T. DARMIENTO wrote: [snip] >Although it might be tough to tape your own hand to your > slide. And super-glue might be a little too permanent, so . . . Charlie Vernon suggested using a rubber band to get rid of extraneous movement in the fingers of the right hand once... Beth From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:26:51 +0000 From: Jim Seaman To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Slide away from bell Message-ID: <38D82F66.E55C0A36@igs.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The trombonist on the Tonight Show band (Matt Finders?) seems to have his bell section about 3 times the usual distance away from his slide section. Out of curiousity can anyone explain the reason for this? jim From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:29:14 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" , Subject: Re: Slide away from bell - was Finger on the bell Message-ID: <006901bf93e1$1a5d25a0$027dadc1@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Seaman To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: woensdag 22 maart 2000 3:26 Subject: Slide away from bell : : The trombonist on the Tonight Show band (Matt Finders?) seems to have : his bell section about 3 times the usual distance away from his slide section. : Out of curiousity can anyone explain the reason for this? : He obviously has VERY long fingers :-) Groeten, Dick Sleeman, Lelystad, Holland. From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:41:18 +0800 From: Philip Brink To: pedlnote@netunlimited.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Finger on the Bell Message-ID: <38D8953E.6239A535@attglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger Carmichael wrote: > "I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on > the > bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an > > unforgivable sin?" > > I do it and I hate it! My first Trombone instructor taught me some 45 > years ago to touch the bell moving the slide out to find 3rd position > and to touch the bell moving in to find 4th. This was in my first-ever > lesson. The only other instructor I ever had told me about five years > ago that I didn't need to do that anymore, as I had mastered that > bell-touching quite well. It is still a tough habit to break, however. > If I'm playing a slow passage, I do not ever come near the bell, but on > 16th runs, etc, I find myself nicking the bell all the time. Other than > sawing off the tips of my fingers, anybody have a foolproof method to > stop this practice? > > Roger Carmichael > Bass Trombonist > Burt Massengale Big Band > Greensboro Big Band > Greensboro Concert Band > Province Brass (Quintet) > Randolph Jazz Band Well, I have done it for many years, and I still seem to be able to play! Every now and again I tell a student, "don't do as I do, do....!," but otherwise I just feel a little strange about it for a while, then go on about my business! Now, bass trombone in an orchestra is not a heavy slide movement job, either! Phil Brink Hong Kong Philharmonic From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:49:58 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Only testing - delete Message-ID: <001301bf93ec$66beabc0$087dadc1@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit XQQQME - only testing From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:51 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:52:59 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: <001d01bf93ec$d57765c0$087dadc1@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James wrote: : Now about this nasty habit that some trombonists have (or is it). I've : been taught to never put my finger on the bell when going to 3rd position I also have the habit but NEVER when my slide moves fast because it would slow me down of course. Only when I play a longer note in the 3rd position, I sometimes check if my bell is still there :-). : (or any position for that matter). I tried that too but my fingers are not long enough.... : But yesterday, when I was sitting in my chair with my jaw on the floor James, you must have a peculiar built chair or maybe your jaw is as long as your finger? Only joking, Groeten, Dick Sleeman, Lelystad, Holland. P.S. This is the third time that I try to post this message on the list.... From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:52 2000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 06:31:51 -0500 From: "Dave Mackey" To: Subject: Re: Slide away from bell Message-ID: <000d01bf93f2$3886f2c0$6f43c7d0@DaveMackey> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The trombonist on the Tonight Show band (Matt Finders?) seems to have > his bell section about 3 times the usual distance away from his slide > section. > Out of curiousity can anyone explain the reason for this? Matt Finders is obviously most comfortable playing with the horn that way. It almost appears that the slide section of his horn (which is a Conn straight horn, if I'm not mistaken) is flat in relation to the bell section. (Incidentally, a few years ago Matt missed some shows, so Kevin Eubanks had his brother Robin flown in from New York to fill in. It's remarkable with the show's insane production schedule of about 50 weeks per year that the show almost never has substitute musicians.) There's really no set rule on what angle you set your slide at; again it seems to be a matter of personal taste. I saw one trombonist at Eastern (I think she was with the Lititz Moravian Trombone Choir) playing left-handed, in fact. Dave Mackey From ???@??? Wed Mar 22 08:32:52 2000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:42:03 -0500 From: "DON FITZSIMONS" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Finger on the bell Message-ID: <00c201bf938f$1050cb40$1e7e9cd1@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit | I'm wondering what the general thought is on putting the finger on the | bell when playing the trombone. Do most trombonists' do it, or is it an | unforgivable sin? I was taught that putting a finger on the bell to detect third position should be avoided because *beginners* learn too readily to fix the slide position to a landmark that will likely be different from one instrument to another. Furthermore, tuning to a position should rely on the feedback that the ear and mind must co-ordinate in other positions out of first. None should think that it is an unforgivable sin. Close your eyes if it bothers you and ask yourself if you can tell the difference. (I suppose that metallic pings would be give away.) fitz