TROMBONE-L Digest 1625 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) SKB hard case recommend. and tip by Jgicking@aol.com 2) Rests and slides by David Molter 3) RE: Rests and slides by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 4) Re: Manipulations by "Chuck De Paolo" 5) Blatant plug department by Walter Barrett 6) RE: Rests and slides by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 7) Re: Rests and slides by Jeff Albert 8) RE: Microphone Advice by Roger Karren 9) RE: Rests and slides by "Berggren, Erik" 10) Re: Microphone Help? by "Daniel Pliskin" 11) Re: Rests and slides by MBennetts@aol.com 12) Re: Rests (kinda long) by "Gary D. Maxwell" 13) Re: Rests and slides by "Gary D. Maxwell" 14) THANK YOU ALL - and a trombone related issue! by Mike Coyle 15) Bach 42B and 42 players, question by Mike Coyle 16) Re: troll: personality profile by "Adrian Drover" 17) Re: Hard Cases.. by "Adrian Drover" 18) Re: Rests (kinda long) by Mike Coyle 19) Re: troll: personality profile by Mike Coyle 20) Re: Rests (kinda long) by "Gary D. Maxwell" 21) Re: Hard Cases.. by sabutin@mindspring.com 22) Re: THANK YOU ALL - and a trombone related issue! by David Buckley 23) Troll talk by sabutin@mindspring.com 24) trolls and such by MikeSuter@aol.com 25) Re: Troll talk - explanation by Mike Coyle 26) Re: Troll talk by "Gary D. Maxwell" 27) reply to mike suter by Mike Coyle 28) Re: reply to mike suter by MBennetts@aol.com 29) conn elkhart era by Philbne@aol.com 30) Fwd: reply to mike suter by REOnofreyJ@aol.com 31) Anyone in Indy? by "Christopher Smith" 32) trolls and such from Hary Kozlowski by Harykoz@aol.com 33) AOL apology by Mike Coyle 34) Yet another mouthpiece question by "Rodney Ellard" 35) OK you guys, you win :) and welcome back Hary by Mike Coyle 36) Needed: Some Latin help by Douglas Yeo 37) Offenbach cell duos by Roger Menning 38) RE: Yet another mouthpiece question by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 39) Re: Offenbach cello duos by Douglas Yeo 40) Re: OK you guys, you win :) and welcome back Hary by sabutin@mindspring.com 41) Re: troll: personality profile by Larry White 42) Re: Rests by "Adrian Drover" 43) Brass Concert by Jimmy Clark 44) Re: Paris Trombone Quartet Recording?? by Joseph Green 45) Re: Rests by "Gary D. Maxwell" 46) Edwards Jazz Horn for Sale by "Bryce L. Mecham" 47) Re: Needed: Some Latin help by "Kenneth Dowdy" 48) TROMBONE-L UPDATE by Listmonitor Trombone-L 49) RE: King 3B by sabutin@mindspring.com 50) ebay stuff.... by Elisabeth Frederick 51) RE: we need a gizmo by David Iverson 52) Can you identify this horn? by "John Lavoie" 53) Re: Can you identify this horn? by Topper 54) Help, My Yamaha Bass Trombone is bent! by "David S Staines" 55) Re: Help, My Yamaha Bass Trombone is bent! by "David S Staines" 56) Re: Needed: Some Latin help by Larry White 57) Starts with A, ends....(was: Re: troll: personality profile) by "Aaron Roth" 58) RE: Yet another mouthpiece question by "Aaron Roth" From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:55 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:28:31 EST From: Jgicking@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: SKB hard case recommend. and tip Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The SKB "flight style" case offers excellent protection. Just last week this case defeated the best efforts of Venezuelan baggage handlers. It's also cheap. I paid around $75 at Sam Asch for the case. If you decide on this SKB case, you will want to place duct tape over the latches to keep them from catching and disintegrating during handling. The latches (and perhaps the spindly hinges) are the only weak points on the case. I lost a latch this way on the first case. SKB promptly replaced the case. I also ship the case with a K&M folding trombone stand in the bell. Its a neat, compact stand and I figure while this adds weight, it may help prevent deceleration damage to the bell should someone give the case the heave-ho. Jim From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:55 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:00:27 -0500 (EST) From: David Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Rests and slides Message-ID: <383975569.953128865123.JavaMail.root@web30.pub01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a second trombinist, I resent the implication that we are good only for counting rests. That's what bass trombonists are for. However, when I play 1st trombone, the 2nd bone had better not get lost. In high school and college, freshmen counted rests. This subject is very interesting to me, particularly in light of the fact that during Monday's rehearsal, I twice got lost in passages WITHOUT rests (i.e., I was playing notes)!! Which begs the question, who counts the measures that have notes in them? On slides: The slide on my Blessing 88 was great out of the box for two days. Then it gummed up like the transmission in a 68 Rambler. had to take it to the shop for a through chem cleaning. Worked fine after that. The slide on the used Bach 36BO I just bought (about a year old) is the best I've ever played -- fast, smooth, no hint of a hangup even without cleaning. Dave Molter Pittsburgh, PA From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:56 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:54:36 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Rests and slides Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Molter commented > This subject is very interesting to me, particularly in light of the fact > that during Monday's rehearsal, I twice got lost in passages WITHOUT rests > (i.e., I was playing notes)!! Which begs the question, who counts the > measures that have notes in them? > Was it one of those times where the composer or arranger has the trombones repeat the same thing over and over? Our band has played a piece where the trombone parts have the same two notes on off beats for the first 22 or so measures of the piece. With the harmony being so static, the melody isn't the most fascinating I have ever heard by a long shot. There is no avoiding it. You have to do your own counting until you have heard the melody, such as it is, often enough to know when you have to change notes. Composers who write that kind of thing should be condemned to listening intently while Kenny G circular breathes. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:57 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:18:53 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: Subject: Re: Manipulations Message-ID: <003601bf8e91$c61f37c0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Weston, If you are unable to get any additional information through the channels you have already opened, you may want to write the publisher of the work, Shawnee Press, and inquire to them about the work or the composer himself. I'm not up to speed on Molineaux, but if he is still alive, they might be able to provide you with an address so that you can write him. Shawnee's address is: Shawnee Press 49 Waring Drive Delaware Water Gap PA 18327 They have a website at http://www.shawneepress.com/Welcome.html. Hope this helps! In Music, ---Chuck General Manager & Webmaster, Trombone Catalog Editor Hickey's Music Center 104 Adams Street Ithaca, NY 14850 607.272.8262 (Phone) 607.272.2203 (Fax) chuck@hickeys.com (E-Mail) http://www.hickeys.com (Website) http://208.134.241.150/weather/us/cities/NY_Ithaca.html (Weather) ----- Original Message ----- From: Adolphus Sprott To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:56 PM Subject: Manipulations > On the 25th of this month I'm going to play Manipulations for unaccompanied > trombone by Allen Molineux. I was looking for some type of background on > the piece, but I can't find it. I need some background for the program > notes. All I know is that the composer is Allen Molineux and he studied > composition with Warren Benson at the Eastman School of Music. If anyone > knows something about this piece or knows how I can contact the composer, I > would greatly appreciate it. From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:57 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:21:12 -0500 From: Walter Barrett To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , John Wittmann , Kurt Witt Subject: Blatant plug department Message-ID: <38CFAA65.DD3F53E@bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Okay, here's another addition to the Blatant plug dep't- I'm doing a lecture-demo on Trombone Legato at this year's NY Brass Conference. Also this year will be lots of more notable trombone luminaries, like Phil Wilson, and if memory serves, Sabutin will be at the Barry Rogers tribute. Further info at their website, which is www.chascolin.com/nybc. Following is the Press Release, which might also serve to let you all know just who is this guy who chimes in on the list... Yamaha Performing Artist Walter Barrett is presenting a lecture-demonstration on the subject ăTrombone Slursä at the NY Brass Conference for Scholarships, Friday, March 31 at 3:00.It will be a lively, free-wheeling, sometimes humorous discussion on the subject of legato on the trombone, showing the different types of legato, and his approach to teaching slurs. Most method books currently popular barely cover the mechanics of slurring at all, and the average student is left to figure out how to do it by trial & error and sheer repetition. The approach that Mr. Barrett advocates breaks legato down into three separate tasks, with one task building on the previous one. Band directors, students, method book authors, and trombone teachers are the target audience for this lecture. Walter Barrett performs as a free-lance musician throughout the New York area on Alto, Tenor & Bass Trombones, Bass Trumpet, Euphonium, and Tuba. He has performed with the Westchester Symphony, Yonkers Philharmonic, Philharmonic Symphony of Westchester, and the Westchester Jazz Orchestra, to name a few. Walter has been featured as soloist with many local groups, including the Lehman College Community Band, White Plains Pops Band, Manhattan School of Music Trombone Ensemble, and the Westchester Band. He has performed with artists such as Frankie Valli, Julius LaRosa, and Enzo Stuarti, and has been heard on jingles for Sports Illustrated and US News & World Report. Mr. Barrett is a founding member of the Bottom Line Tuba Quartet, Grace Avenue Brass Ensemble, and Cornucopia, a brass chamber duo founded with his wife, Dr. Connie Tomaino. He is a Yamaha Performing Artist/Clinician, is on the faculties of Concordia College and Hoff-Barthelson Music School, and is listed in "Who's Who in American Music". Hope to see you there, Walter Barrett Yamaha Artist/Clinician From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:58 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:05:34 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'kingbone@earthlink.net'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Rests and slides Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dave brings up an important point. First he tips his hand at his age (I remember the Rambler too :-))and in Pittsburgh it was probably rust that was gumming up the transmission. Then he goes on to point out an important but necessary function in the trombone section, counting rests and knowing when to come in. It has been my observation that the structure of the written music, and therefore counting rests is harder in the "non-melody" world of the middle voices of the ensemble. I even see it in the microcosm of the brass quintet. Is it just me or do the trumpets have easier music to count? Are trombone players the best at counting because of the nature of the lines their section plays, or are they the worst? Recently my wife and I housed some college musicians for a night. Our reward was to hear an excellent concert and meet the college music students. During a pause in-between pieces, and high school member of the audience fell making a loud noise in an otherwise small auditorium. The director of that fine college organization made a quip to which the entire ensemble tittered with laughter. Later on, I met the trombone section and asked them about the director's comment. The director had surmised that the person falling was probably a trombone player at the high school. The trombone players went on to tell me that at many rehearsals someone in the section knocks over a mute or stand making a loud noise similar to the one that day. They went on to tell me (in a joking way) that they were happy just to make their entrances at the correct time, and that they had probably missed 2 or 3 during this very concert. Now clearly this section needs some guidance on how to organize itself, I mean whose job is it to count for the section?? ;-) Knocking over large things, missing entrances... I hear Carol King in the back of my mind. Maybe we should discuss this? Rick Marple San Antonio TX for 8 years and still counting... -----Original Message----- From: David Molter [mailto:kingbone@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 8:00 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Rests and slides As a second trombinist, I resent the implication that we are good only for counting rests. That's what bass trombonists are for. However, when I play 1st trombone, the 2nd bone had better not get lost. In high school and college, freshmen counted rests. This subject is very interesting to me, particularly in light of the fact that during Monday's rehearsal, I twice got lost in passages WITHOUT rests (i.e., I was playing notes)!! Which begs the question, who counts the measures that have notes in them? On slides: The slide on my Blessing 88 was great out of the box for two days. Then it gummed up like the transmission in a 68 Rambler. had to take it to the shop for a through chem cleaning. Worked fine after that. The slide on the used Bach 36BO I just bought (about a year old) is the best I've ever played -- fast, smooth, no hint of a hangup even without cleaning. Dave Molter Pittsburgh, PA From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:58 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:16:43 -0600 From: Jeff Albert To: Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Rests and slides Message-ID: <38CFB768.A78633@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Now clearly this section needs some guidance on how to organize itself, I > mean whose job is it to count for the section?? ;-) Knocking over large > things, missing entrances... I hear Carol King in the back of my mind. > Maybe we should discuss this? > > I have found that things work best if the second player deals with missing entrances, and the bass trombonist is responsible for knocking things over. This leaves the principal available for supervision of these activities. Jeff From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:58 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:18:55 -0700 From: Roger Karren To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Microphone Advice Message-ID: <6E031E06378BD311AEF20090273CE1BA3E0CE8@el-postino.s-vision.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You already have most of what you need for recording... your computer! It is after all, digital. All you need is a really good Mic. I have created CD's from many of my old cassettes and I'm sure you could reverse the process to create a very good quality cassette from a digital recording made with your computer. At a minimum, for example, you can use the Creative Mixer for mixing and levels and when you have your recording complete, use your "line out" from your sound card to transfer it to a cassette player. I think it would make an excellent recording... but leave out the effects for audition tapes... I hear they don't like 'em... Roger From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:59 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:47:03 -0600 From: "Berggren, Erik" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: RE: Rests and slides Message-ID: <69B69101614FD3119D9F00104B9883E70E8F52@BKXCHUSR01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One question, are there any method books that include the proper techniques for executing and timing these skills. I'd like to know how to do them properly just in case an opportunity for auditioning for a second chair or bass trombone position comes along. I love levity! -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Albert [SMTP:jalbert@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 10:17 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Rests and slides > Now clearly this section needs some guidance on how to organize itself, I > mean whose job is it to count for the section?? ;-) Knocking over large > things, missing entrances... I hear Carol King in the back of my mind. > Maybe we should discuss this? > > I have found that things work best if the second player deals with missing entrances, and the bass trombonist is responsible for knocking things over. This leaves the principal available for supervision of these activities. Jeff From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:59 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:09:12 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Microphone Help? Message-ID: <20000315170912.1992.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I also used a lavalier mike from Radio Shack for many years, for miking my oboe (how to make a bad sound badder). When I bought it I was surprised that the more expensive lavalier mike, that they had, sounded really bad. The one I bought sounded pretty good. I used it for about 15 years, before it broke and I decided that I didnât need to fix it. My point, here, is that you can find a reasonable sounding mike, if youâre willing to listen to them. Way back, when I was single and had money, I went out to buy some high end speakers. I took a few choice albums and went from high-end audio store to high-end audio store, listening to what they had to offer. At, perhaps, the snobbiest of the stores, I asked if the salesman would please turn up the treble, a bit. I was informed that their equipment didnât have tone controls and the phase shift that went with them. Furthermore, their KEF tweeters, reproduced treble flawlessly, ăDid I want to see the specs?ä I let the salesman know that David Grisman didnât play with dead strings, and left. So, donât get sucked into buying something, on the virtues of its specifications, either. Ears are very, very sensitive instruments and different people like different sounds. My general approach is to ask the salesman how much money you need to spend, before you stop hearing any difference, in the sound. Sometimes that approach will give you a very expensive lesson in what sounds good. But most of the time I find out that I really donât need to spend a lot of money, that a good medium priced gadget will do just fine for me. DanP >Radio Shack, believe it or not, made a really good mic for these >kinds of applications just a few years ago... and it sold for the >amazing price of $39.95. If you are serious about getting a decent >recording, but don't want to spend a LOT of money -- visit your local >Radio Shack. But try to find a salesman who can actually HELP you. >The mic that I bought there (yes I did) was a lavalier type, >condenser (had it's own battery), and worked GREAT on trombone! > >But the "ALC" that Chuck speaks of is EVIL. I'd definitely try to >avoid the boombox recording if at all possible! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:59 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:27:07 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Rests and slides Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/15/00 10:57:44 AM Central Standard Time, erik.berggren@state.ks.us writes: > One question, are there any method books that include the proper techniques > for executing and timing these skills. I'd like to know how to do them > properly just in case an opportunity for auditioning for a second chair or > bass trombone position comes along. You're either born with the second trombone skills or you're not. I'm pretty sure that a snort before rehearsal or concert supplements whatever bass trombone skills you might have been born with. Mike Bennett 2nd trombone, Highland Park (Illinois) Symphonic Winds 2nd trombone, St. James Brass From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:34:59 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:37:20 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: kingbone@earthlink.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Rests (kinda long) Message-ID: <38CFCA50.BE491384@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Molter wrote: Which begs the question, who counts the measures .......... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I believe I have previously relayed the following to the list, but with the present thread, I'll do so again. A close friend, while serving in the Army in Stutgart, Germany frequently attended Operas in that city. Being an America soldier he was afforded free passes, but had to sit in one of the upper most seats in the opera house and in such a position that he could fairly easily observe goings on in the Orchestra, which was situated under the stage; not in a 'pit' in front of the stage. He noticed that stand lights would go off and on at different times, in different parts of the orchestra, throughout the performance. Curious as all bassists/euphonists are, he had to know what was going on! Oh, didn't I tell you that he was also DI and still has to have answers about EVERYTHING, but that is another story. Carry on. What he found out, was that the musicians didn't count long rests. They timed them. During the time they had for extended rests, they would turn off their stand light and slip out the back of the 'pit' and joind others coming and going for a short repast between notes. The opera had actually set up a small sandwich and drink bar, where the musician could actually rest with his/her favorite drink andor snack, then hustle back to meet the note requirement. That is all. All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:00 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:42:08 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: jalbert@bellsouth.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Rests and slides Message-ID: <38CFCB70.40D3E1FE@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Albert wrote: > I have found that things work best if the second player deals with missing > entrances, and the bass trombonist is responsible for knocking things over. > This leaves the principal available for supervision of these activities. Or, how about negotiating contracts, doing his taxes, or checking out the latest Playboy. (:>)) Gotta go and do a little teaching. My job, you know TTFN Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:00 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:44:15 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: THANK YOU ALL - and a trombone related issue! Message-ID: <200003151746.LAA29813@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to all of you who helped me with the latest troll issue (his posting as me on TPIN). You guys are great and I'd have been out of here long ago if not for the kindness and support of many of you. Concerning the troll: we'll catch him in time. I can guarantee that ;-) Now, back to trombone related stuff. I recently heard a recording of Bruckner's 8th which was in many ways really fine. Even though the trombone section is quite good, they are, however, far to loud, particularly the bass trombonist. I was reminded of a section of "Mastering the Trombone", a fine collaboration of Ed Kleinhammer and our own, at times unbelievably prolific, Doug Yeo! I'll have to paraphrase as I do not own the book, I only read a copy borrowed from the library (sorry Doug and Ed, but one's private library shelves can only hold so much!). I apologize for the paraphrasing and would be grateful if you'd post a transcript of the real comments, Doug. But, Kleinhammer, after being complimented on his playing after a CSO concert remarked to the effect that "if you could hear me (as projected out of the context of the ensemble) then I have failed." Implying of course that if you were aware of the bass trombone above the rest of the orchestra then he had not done his job of fitting into the ensemble and making it the homogenous instrument that it can be. Again this is a paraphrase but I think it catches the general idea. (help me out, Doug) I was really gratified and pleased to read that as I have always viewed the orchestra as a big and beautiful instrument which, though comprised of many disparate voices and colors, should always strive for unity. Of course there are moments, many of them, where, just as at the piano, one or more voices are dominant temporarily and then recede back into the fabric. But, I have often heard performances greatly marred by instrumentalists, frequently brass players, trying to make their presence felt by playing at inappropriate volumes. Hey, all of us who have played in the orchestra know how tempting it is to blow our heads off, not to mention the heads of the audience, but, it is most often at the expense of good musical judgment My first instrument, and in many ways the one I will always love most, is the piano. And, even though I had been taught the discipline of intelligent voicing, when I was doing a lot of orchestral playing I found myself wanting to "be heard" in a way that was out of line with, shall we say, a balanced ego :) In listening to the CSO trombone and tuba section recording lately, after many discussions of it on trombone-l, I was reminded how wonderful those guys were at achieving meaningful balance - the recording of the excerpts from Die Walkure are a great tribute to ensemble playing - when that recording becomes available again on CD I urge you all to get it - its a hoot (I was tempted to say it's a "pissah" as my New York routes would have led me, but I was afraid I'd get trashed for using profanity again :) Anyway, even though we bring up the matter of inappropriate volume from time to time on trombone-l, I think it is an important topic, especially for younger players, to keep fresh. Later, Mike (or Mikey, if you prefer) :-) PS someone asked me recently why I use so many smiley faces in my writing. Answer: I like smiling and do it a lot all day long :) M From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:00 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:05:29 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Bach 42B and 42 players, question Message-ID: <200003151806.MAA31609@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yo, fellow boneheads, I have a 42B that is about 21 years old and a 42 that is about 5 years old. I love 'em both, but, there is a great difference in the geometry of both that makes for a little problem when switching back and forth. The bell on the 42B measures just about 4 inches form the slide where the slide enters the bell section, that measurement is about 4 1/8 inches on the 42. The curvature of the bottom tube leading into the slide is far greater on the 42 than on the 42B so, by the time you get to the rim of the bell, the distance on the 42B from rim to slide is about 7/8 of an inch and that same spot measured on the 42 is a whopping 1 3/8!!!!!!! After I've been playing the 42 solely for a few days, when I go back to the 42B it is very hard not to have my thumb hit the rim of the bell (a huge NO NO, right Sam? :) Anyway, I'm wondering if this is true of newer 42B's as compared to 42's and I am wondering if it is safe and advisable to have a qualified repairman make a small bend (very slight change of angle) at the portion of the bell right where it attaches to the slide so that the slide would project further away from the bell. What do y'all have to say? Mike From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:01 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:10:50 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: troll: personality profile Message-ID: <002c01bf8ea9$eb3e2940$de8901d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Coyle To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 1:50 AM Subject: troll: fact, fiction, personality profile (longish) Mike, Your psychiatric report on the troll was very interesting reading and I'm sure, very accurate, judging by some of the mails I have received from him (her, it?) in the past. But you didn't really need to go to all that trouble. Your report could have easily been condensed into just one word. Can't really publish it on the list, but it starts with "A" and finishes with "hole". A :-) From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:01 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:11:15 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Sam Burtis" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Hard Cases.. Message-ID: <002d01bf8ea9$eee893a0$de8901d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Hard Cases.. > One...get a case that you are SURE will not cave in (or even bend) under > heavy stresses the way some lightweight plastic cases will. If a 200 > pounder can stand on it w/out any bending at all, it's a good case for this > type of use. Otherwise forget it. 200 pounder? Never tried that one. Who does it, MacDonalds or Burger King? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:02 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:14:36 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: maxwellg@bcsd.k12.ca.us Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Rests (kinda long) Message-ID: <200003151815.MAA32643@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > He noticed that stand lights would go off and on at different >times, in different parts of the orchestra, throughout the performance. >Curious as all bassists/euphonists are, he had to know what was going >on! >Oh, didn't I tell you that he was also DI and still has to have answers >about EVERYTHING, but that is another story. Carry on. Gary, was ist das "DI" The opera had >actually set up a small sandwich and drink bar, where the musician could >actually rest with his/her favorite drink andor snack, then hustle back >to >meet the note requirement. AHHHH, life in the note factory :) > >That is all. > >All the best, >Gary Maxwell >Bass Trombone >Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra > From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:02 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:20:02 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: troll: personality profile Message-ID: <200003151821.MAA00639@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Your report could have easily been condensed into just one word. > >Can't really publish it on the list, but it starts with "A" and finishes >with "hole". > >A :-) > Hmmmmmmmm, I'm not sure I understand you, could you be a bit more specific, A? hehehehe M From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:03 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:21:48 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: Mike Coyle Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Rests (kinda long) Message-ID: <38CFD4BC.B6C7A5DB@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Coyle wrote: > Gary, was ist das "DI" DI = Drill Instructor You know, in your face, precise, cannot leave anything unanswered. Gary From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:03 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:15:19 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Hard Cases.. Message-ID: <200003151917.OAA01772@fb00.eng00.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:11 PM 3/15/00 +0000, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:29 PM >Subject: Re: Hard Cases.. > > >> One...get a case that you are SURE will not cave in (or even bend) >under >> heavy stresses the way some lightweight plastic cases will. If a 200 >> pounder can stand on it w/out any bending at all, it's a good case for >this >> type of use. Otherwise forget it. > >200 pounder? Never tried that one. Who does it, MacDonalds or Burger King? > >A. ============== Actually, it's often a RESULT of McDonalds and Burger King... S. From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:03 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:26:46 -0500 From: David Buckley To: astro@pconline.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: THANK YOU ALL - and a trombone related issue! Message-ID: <38CFE3F5.A6AA85B7@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reiterate my standard comment - balance is the responsibility of the conductor ultimately, especially as it relates to brass who sit at the back of the band and except for experience and feedback really do not have an ideal sense of what things sound like out front. And in the case of a recording, the recording engineer and the conductor are responsible. I don't think we should be so quick to blame the players. Most of us do the best we can and are receptive to either spoken or signalled comments on balance. Personally, at times when I have played an unfamiliar part in a group I do not normally played with, I have asked the conductor to let me know if he or she wants more or less. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. If they don't I can only assume all is well. Regards. Dave. Mike Coyle wrote: > Thanks to all of you who helped me with the latest troll issue (his posting > as me on TPIN). You guys are great and I'd have been out of here long ago > if not for the kindness and support of many of you. > > Concerning the troll: we'll catch him in time. I can guarantee that ;-) > > Now, back to trombone related stuff. I recently heard a recording of > Bruckner's 8th which was in many ways really fine. Even though the > trombone section is quite good, they are, however, far to loud, > particularly the bass trombonist. I was reminded of a section of > "Mastering the Trombone", a fine collaboration of Ed Kleinhammer and our > own, at times unbelievably prolific, Doug Yeo! I'll have to paraphrase as > I do not own the book, I only read a copy borrowed from the library (sorry > Doug and Ed, but one's private library shelves can only hold so much!). I > apologize for the paraphrasing and would be grateful if you'd post a > transcript of the real comments, Doug. But, Kleinhammer, after being > complimented on his playing after a CSO concert remarked to the effect that > "if you could hear me (as projected out of the context of the ensemble) > then I have failed." Implying of course that if you were aware of the bass > trombone above the rest of the orchestra then he had not done his job of > fitting into the ensemble and making it the homogenous instrument that it > can be. Again this is a paraphrase but I think it catches the general > idea. (help me out, Doug) > > I was really gratified and pleased to read that as I have always viewed the > orchestra as a big and beautiful instrument which, though comprised of many > disparate voices and colors, should always strive for unity. Of course > there are moments, many of them, where, just as at the piano, one or more > voices are dominant temporarily and then recede back into the fabric. But, > I have often heard performances greatly marred by instrumentalists, > frequently brass players, trying to make their presence felt by playing at > inappropriate volumes. Hey, all of us who have played in the orchestra > know how tempting it is to blow our heads off, not to mention the heads of > the audience, but, it is most often at the expense of good musical judgment > > My first instrument, and in many ways the one I will always love most, is > the piano. And, even though I had been taught the discipline of > intelligent voicing, when I was doing a lot of orchestral playing I found > myself wanting to "be heard" in a way that was out of line with, shall we > say, a balanced ego :) In listening to the CSO trombone and tuba section > recording lately, after many discussions of it on trombone-l, I was > reminded how wonderful those guys were at achieving meaningful balance - > the recording of the excerpts from Die Walkure are a great tribute to > ensemble playing - when that recording becomes available again on CD I urge > you all to get it - its a hoot (I was tempted to say it's a "pissah" as my > New York routes would have led me, but I was afraid I'd get trashed for > using profanity again :) > > Anyway, even though we bring up the matter of inappropriate volume from > time to time on trombone-l, I think it is an important topic, especially > for younger players, to keep fresh. > > Later, > > Mike (or Mikey, if you prefer) > > :-) > > PS someone asked me recently why I use so many smiley faces in my writing. > Answer: I like smiling and do it a lot all day long :) > > M From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:05 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:27:17 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Troll talk Message-ID: <200003151928.OAA23759@fb00.eng00.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ladies + Gentlemen... I hate to be the one to have to bring this up, but... ENOUGH AWREADY!! Really. If you must discuss this subject, keep it off the list. It doesn't bother me personally that it's ON the list, I mostly just delete the troll discussions, but you have to understand that whoever this is gets further stoked every time he or she is mentioned. There is only one way to dispense w/a determined troll...silence. No response, no thrill. No thrill, the troll finds another bridge to haunt. I know being trolled cries out for discussion, just to relieve the helpless feeling...but don't scratch that itch, at least not in public. Like poison ivy, scratching spreads it. Later... S. P.S. (Required trombone content): DAMN this instrument is hard to play !!! From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:05 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:31:31 EST From: MikeSuter@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: trolls and such Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Coyle is having the time of his life with our troll. And he seems to be quite proud that he's set him off again. But the problem with his little game is that there are some of us on the list that have been the target of the troll for a number of years. Every time he's set off, he revisits ALL OF US! The reason I'm sending this to the general list instead of Coyle directly is that Coyle doesn't accept personal posts. There are some of us who have pertinent information that is lost to him - or perhaps he just likes the fight even if he draws others unwillingly into the fray. Maybe someone should trace the origins of COYLE'S posts. Mike Suter From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:06 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:53:26 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Troll talk - explanation Message-ID: <200003151954.NAA12063@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I figured this post would happen eventually. > > It doesn't bother me personally that it's ON the list, I mostly just >delete the troll discussions, but you have to understand that whoever this >is gets further stoked every time he or she is mentioned. On the contrary. Since humiliating this moron publicly I have heard nothing privately from him. > > There is only one way to dispense w/a determined troll...silence. See above > No response, no thrill. > > No thrill, the troll finds another bridge to haunt. This guy is sick, no joke, he's really not a well-balanced person and will continue his insanity regardless of what is or is not done. I have gotten no fewer than 15 emails from others telling me that he is harassing them too, they do not write back, not do they stand up to him publicly. Yet he continues writing to them. Since I have been on this list the List Monitor and I have made great effort to rid the PUBLIC list of his presence. We have accomplished that. We won! If the guy wants to bother people privately, big deal! Who sees it? Who cares? The point is that we have managed to get him off the public list and there is nothing he can do about it. If he posts publicly he gives away his last identity and thereby his last link to trombone-l. He's finished and all he can do now is make a few private ripples. Big Deal! I understand your point, Sam, and I am actually sympathetic to the notion that it is annoying seeing posts related to the troll, but, these posts have helped to flush him out and make it evident who he is on the list (largely by tracing IP addresses). The annoyance of public reference is a small price to pay to have this creature off the list. Check out the archives from a year or two ago. He harassed people publicly constantly (Doug Yeo, Mike Suter, Gary Greenhoe, Chris Waage, Tom Izzo, Wayne Dyess, et al.). He can no longer do that and for that I am grateful. I can handle his personal harassment (if I couldn't take that crap I wouldn't do very well in the music business!). Frankly I'm very grateful for the efforts of out List Monitor and many others who have helped to crush this guy's public persona. Other list would do well to follow our example. I have posted many "bait" posts (both on my own and at the request of those trying to supress the troll). He has fallen for each one and given away all but his last identity. Yeah, it has embarrassed me to have to post some of the stupid things I have to draw out the troll. He has "issues" with my academic background and many other things in my musical life, so, what did I do to draw him out, make really stupid blatant references to my background and people who I have played with. It was really quite embarrassing to do this and not be able to admit to it to you all, but, again I state, by doing this, we caught the idiot and shut him down publicly. My personal humiliation was a small price to pay for the greater good :) I'd do it all again if I had too. Hope this helps to explain some things that have gone on. Mike > > I know being trolled cries out for discussion, just to relieve the >helpless feeling...but don't scratch that itch, at least not in public. > > Like poison ivy, scratching spreads it. > > Later... > > S. > > P.S. (Required trombone content): > > DAMN this instrument is hard to play !!! > From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:08 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:51:44 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: sabutin@mindspring.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Troll talk Message-ID: <38CFE9D0.A82C50A4@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: > > Ladies + Gentlemen... > > I hate to be the one to have to bring this up, but... > > ENOUGH AWREADY!! > > Really. Bravo, Hallelujah, Well said, and lets get on with life! > P.S. (Required trombone content): > DAMN this instrument is hard to play !!! Let alone having to count/time all those measures without notes in 'em ! Gary Maxwell From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:08 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:12:02 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: reply to mike suter Message-ID: <200003152013.OAA14017@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I DO accept personal email, not from aol or other free servers though. They are populated by a lot of people who just like to cause trouble. Read my response to Sabutin and you'll see that pride has nothing to do with my troll posting. It is actually rather humiliating - but it has worked. Sorry you are so bothered by this, Mike, but, rest assured, I think you'll see a marked decrease in troll related postings after this recent flare up dies down. At 01:31 PM 3/15/00 , you wrote: >Mike Coyle is having the time of his life with our troll. And he seems to be >quite proud that he's set him off again. But the problem with his little game >is that there are some of us on the list that have been the target of the >troll for a number of years. Every time he's set off, he revisits ALL OF US! > >The reason I'm sending this to the general list instead of Coyle directly is >that Coyle doesn't accept personal posts. There are some of us who have >pertinent information that is lost to him - or perhaps he just likes the >fight even if he draws others unwillingly into the fray. Maybe someone should Ouch :\ I don't know that it is the best idea for legit members of the list to be trashing others publicly, but that damage is done. I assure you Mike, no "pertinent" information is lost on me. I hear privately from all the people on the list that I care to and get whatever else there is from the public forum. I find it odd that you have made my attempt to explain my actions, but, what the heck, I had to deal with weirder stuff than that lately. Again, I'm sincerely sorry that you have felt any of this personally. mike coyle >trace the origins of COYLE'S posts. > >Mike Suter > From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:08 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:54:59 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: reply to mike suter Message-ID: <62.1ba8a04.260152a3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/15/00 2:14:11 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: > I DO accept personal email, not from aol or other free servers though. > They are populated by a lot of people who just like to cause trouble. I see. AOL subscribers "just like to cause trouble." Cute. Very perceptive. Focusing precisely on the most basic motivations of us millions of AOL subscribers. > I find it odd that you have made my attempt to explain > my actions, but, what the heck, I had to deal with weirder stuff than that > lately. His attempt wasn't all that ambitious, alongside your sweeping analysis of AOL users. Mike Bennett Who finds AOL very cost-effective for maintaining separate, full-service e-mail accounts and internet access for four family members, but who hadn't realized how cool AOL could be for "just causing trouble." From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:08 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:58:35 EST From: Philbne@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: conn elkhart era Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For a history of the Conn Co. and about Conn Musical Instruments see the Web site for Margaret Downie Banks, Ph.D. Curator of Musical Instruments America's Shrine to Music Museum Vermillion, South Dakota http://www.usd.edu/~mbanks/CONTENT.html PKeen From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:08 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:02:50 EST From: REOnofreyJ@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: reply to mike suter Message-ID: <2f.2abac8c.2601547a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_2f.2abac8c.2601547a_boundary" In a message dated 3/15/2000 3:56:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, MBennetts@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 03/15/00 2:14:11 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: > I DO accept personal email, not from aol or other free servers though. > They are populated by a lot of people who just like to cause trouble. I see. AOL subscribers "just like to cause trouble." Cute. Very perceptive. Focusing precisely on the most basic motivations of us millions of AOL subscribers. > I find it odd that you have made my attempt to explain > my actions, but, what the heck, I had to deal with weirder stuff than that > lately. His attempt wasn't all that ambitious, alongside your sweeping analysis of AOL users. Mike Bennett Who finds AOL very cost-effective for maintaining separate, full-service e-mail accounts and internet access for four family members, but who hadn't realized how cool AOL could be for "just causing trouble." >> Mike, I second your thoughts, better said than I could have. Rick Onofrey Another AOL troublemaker. Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v69.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:56:29 -0500 Received: from po.missouri.edu (po.missouri.edu [128.206.12.137]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (v69.17) with ESMTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:56:04 -0500 Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13131; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:55:59 -0600 Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12815 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:55:38 -0600 Received: from MBennetts@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id 7.62.1ba8a04 (9819) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:55:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <62.1ba8a04.260152a3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:54:59 EST Reply-To: MBennetts@aol.com Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Precedence: bulk From: MBennetts@aol.com To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: reply to mike suter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN In a message dated 03/15/00 2:14:11 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: > I DO accept personal email, not from aol or other free servers though. > They are populated by a lot of people who just like to cause trouble. I see. AOL subscribers "just like to cause trouble." Cute. Very perceptive. Focusing precisely on the most basic motivations of us millions of AOL subscribers. > I find it odd that you have made my attempt to explain > my actions, but, what the heck, I had to deal with weirder stuff than that > lately. His attempt wasn't all that ambitious, alongside your sweeping analysis of AOL users. Mike Bennett Who finds AOL very cost-effective for maintaining separate, full-service e-mail accounts and internet access for four family members, but who hadn't realized how cool AOL could be for "just causing trouble." From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:09 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:03:54 GMT From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Anyone in Indy? Message-ID: <20000315210354.88774.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi, I have a travel quandry which is becoming desperate..... I'll be flying into Indianapolis, IN at 12:00 (noon) on the 23rd, needing to get to Portland, IN for a gig that evening. The distance between the two cities is 90 miles. I (and my band's travel coordinator) have looked into rental cars, shuttles, buses, commuter flights to Fort Wayne, etc. and nothing is workable. The main problem seems to be that my destination is a somewhat small city..... Sooooooo..... I'm wondering if anyone on the list from the Indy region would be up for giving me a ride from the airport to the gig. I could reimburse/pay you for the gas and travel, and can comp you and a friend/wife/mistress into the concert that night (James Dapogny's Chicago Jazz Band). I'll have my SKB standard golf case and two pieces of luggage, but this stuff CAN fit in a lot of smallish cars. If anyone can help me, or has other ideas which may help, please email me off the list. Thanks! BTW, I'll be appearing with Jim Cullum's Jazz Band at the Riverwalk in San Antonio on the 18th, 20th, 21st and 22nd. Also BTW, the trombonist in the Sam Adams commercial was Steve Turre, if my ears are right. Thanks, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:09 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:04:09 EST From: Harykoz@aol.com To: MikeSuter@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: trolls and such from Hary Kozlowski Message-ID: <5b.32d8bcc.260154c9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/00 1:32:34 PM Central Standard Time, MikeSuter@aol.com writes: << Mike Coyle is having the time of his life with our troll. And he seems to be quite proud that he's set him off again. But the problem with his little game is that there are some of us on the list that have been the target of the troll for a number of years. Every time he's set off, he revisits ALL OF US! The reason I'm sending this to the general list instead of Coyle directly is that Coyle doesn't accept personal posts. There are some of us who have pertinent information that is lost to him - or perhaps he just likes the fight even if he draws others unwillingly into the fray. Maybe someone should trace the origins of COYLE'S posts. >> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````` Mike Suter and Fellow List Members, As you all know, the Trombone-L List Monitor recently issued an apology to me and has invited me to once again, become a member of this list. I had accepted some time ago and am dismayed to see the current status of the Trombone-L list. I have not seen (and miss) the lengthy, informative posts from Doug Yeo. I have not seen the informative posts from Sabutin. The tone of the list seems to be very negative. I agree with Sabutin. Ignore the list pest. That person existed when I first became a member. (about a year and a half ago). I understand the frustration that Mike Coyle feels, as I was probably a "trolls" first victim. I can assure Mike Coyle that no matter what he has suffered, he has not endured what I had to endure. (Mike Coyle, contact me if you wish, if you are insistent in your pursuit, I can also probably fill in some blanks for you.) I gave up trying to track down the person who was causing me grief. I still get strange messages on occasion, but I ignore them and they then stop appearing. If everyone stops responding to these individuals, they will go away. It feels good to be back. Hary Kozlowski From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:09 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:07:07 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: MBennetts@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: AOL apology Message-ID: <200003152108.PAA19787@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:54 PM 3/15/00 , you wrote: >In a message dated 03/15/00 2:14:11 PM Central Standard Time, >astro@pconline.com writes: > >> I DO accept personal email, not from aol or other free servers though. >> They are populated by a lot of people who just like to cause trouble. > >I see. AOL subscribers "just like to cause trouble." Cute. Very perceptive. >Focusing precisely on the most basic motivations of us millions of AOL >subscribers. Sorry you misinterpreted this, Mike. What I meant was that aol allows people to change their screen names whenever they want to - this make it a haven for trolls and freaks. Not everyone on AOL is that, of course. Liquor store sell alcohol, but not everyone that buys liquor there is an alcoholic - get it? Sorry was not as clear as I should have been. I often forget we live in a world that now thrives on being offended at the drop of a hat. None-the-less, I am still not changing that filter :) By the way, I have a feeling you won't have to worry about any of this stuff for much longer. Mike >> I find it odd that you have made my attempt to explain >> my actions, but, what the heck, I had to deal with weirder stuff than that >> lately. > >His attempt wasn't all that ambitious, alongside your sweeping analysis of >AOL users. > >Mike Bennett >Who finds AOL very cost-effective for maintaining separate, full-service >e-mail accounts and internet access for four family members, but who hadn't >realized how cool AOL could be for "just causing trouble." > From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:09 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:15:43 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Yet another mouthpiece question Message-ID: <001801bf8ec3$a586b920$82e594d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF8E80.91C18480"
What would be the difference in sound and playing characteristics between a v-shaped cup and a bowl -shaped cup? 
 
Rod
 From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:10 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:17:03 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: OK you guys, you win :) and welcome back Hary Message-ID: <200003152118.PAA21623@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK guys, you win. I thought fighting with the troll was bad but having to fight with all of AOL is definitely something I'm not up to. Hary, I'm glad you got back on the list and that you seem to have overcome your problems with the troll. I'm done with all that for now and have decided that this whole listserve thing is not quite what I thought it "could" be, so, though I thank you for your offer "fill in some blanks" for me, but I have found a better way out! :) As most of my posts dealt with musicological or theoretical matters, it has been brought up to me that perhaps there would be a better venue out there for me. In the interest of stopping the troll wars and now all this "inside" fighting which I have seem to be in the middle of, I will gladly take my leave and let y'all get back to talkin' about the trombone. :) Be well and good luck to you all, Mike From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:10 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:45:10 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Needed: Some Latin help Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sometimes you just can't put your finger on something you've known for years. I'm facing "brain clutter" which is forcing me to draw a blank on an English translation of one particular bit of Latin text from the Mass: Regina caeli laetare, alleluia: Quia quem meruisti portare, alleluia: Resurrexit, sicut dixit, alleluia: Ora pro nobis Deum, alleluia. Why: My research into original serpent music has brought across my desk (after looking long and hard) an original serpent tutor book from 1810 which is now in the Paris Conservatoire Library; in it are not only duos for two serpents (to develop technique) but two "improvisations" for serpent and choir, whereby the choir sings a cantus firmus and the serpent improvises above. These improvisations are the proof I've wanted for some time to confirm that this practice actually existed (French serpentist Michel Godard, in his spectacular CD "Repons" does this with a choir of monks). But the text.... The other duo is the Haec dies (This is the day the Lord has made...) but I keep getting Regina caeli mixed up with Vexilla Regis and am drawing a blank. I could look all afternoon through my books and probably find it, then again, I thought I might enlist the help of one of our list's many monks... :-) Thanks in advance! -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:11 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:52:38 -0600 From: Roger Menning To: Trombone List Subject: Offenbach cell duos Message-ID: <38D00625.57C93B83@email.mot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Carl Haas (sp?) Adventures in Good Music last night I heard a cello "duo" by Offenbach that I thought would be playable with some editing by two trombones. Has anyone arranged this for trombones? Evidently Offenbach liked playing the cello very much, and wrote a number of nice duets. Roger Menning From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:12 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:54:44 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Yet another mouthpiece question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rod, Sound and playing characteristics are a subjective matter, but I can give you my impression. The V cup tends to give a bit brighter tone (my definition) and a bit faster response. The U (or also called C) cup tends to darken the tone. For a given diameter and cup depth, the U cup will have more volume and that may contribute to the darker tone. I know that tone color is hard to define, but I find that with a V mouthpiece I get a more "trumpet" like tone. The U cup shape gives me a more Euphonium like tone. Other's results may vary. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Rodney Ellard [SMTP:ellard@sprint.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 3:16 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Yet another mouthpiece question > > What would be the difference in sound and playing characteristics between > a v-shaped cup and a bowl -shaped cup? > > Rod From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:12 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:05:42 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Offenbach cello duos Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 3:52 PM -0600 3/15/00, Roger Menning wrote: >On Carl Haas (sp?) Adventures in Good Music last night I heard a >cello "duo" by Offenbach that I thought would be playable with some >editing by two trombones. Has anyone arranged this for trombones? >Evidently Offenbach liked playing the cello very much, and wrote a >number of nice duets. While a student at Indiana University (1973-74), there was an old set of army barracks across the road from the Willke North and South Dorms, called "Maple Hall." The IU Music School used Maple Hall for practice rooms, really a dreadful, almost spooky place and nobody liked to practice there which was why I always practiced there - you could always get a room. One night, a room which was always locked was wide open - and inside were thousands of discarded pieces of music from the IU library piled high in a graveyard. They were spilling out into the hall (someone obviously opened it without knowing what was inside, once open, the genie couldn't be put back in the bottle and the music was all over the place). On the top of the pile was a book of cello duos by Offenbach: Offenbach Sechs Duos (Six Duos) opus 49 2 violoncelli edited by Percy Such Edition Schott 4647 (Volume II; Volume I is 4646) So, I picked it up. The next day, the room was empty, and I was told everything was carted off to a dumpster. What a shame, but I rescued the Offenbach duos.... I use them in lessons with my students on occasion, not the most interesting music ever penned, but fine for trombone/bass trombone and fun to play. You can play them right off the cello part easily, there are only a few double stops, and range goes only as low as low C below the staff and as high as d above the staff - not very high or very low. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:13 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:02:50 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: astro@pconline.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: OK you guys, you win :) and welcome back Hary Message-ID: <200003152204.RAA17167@fb00.eng00.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:17 PM 3/15/00 -0600, you wrote: >OK guys, you win. I thought fighting with the troll was bad but having to >fight with all of AOL is definitely something I'm not up to. ================== What do you mean ? ======================= > >Hary, I'm glad you got back on the list and that you seem to have overcome >your problems with the troll. I'm done with all that for now and have >decided that this whole listserve thing is not quite what I thought it >"could" be, so, though I thank you for your offer "fill in some blanks" >for me, but I have found a better way out! :) > >As most of my posts dealt with musicological or theoretical matters, it has >been brought up to me that perhaps there would be a better venue out there >for me. In the interest of stopping the troll wars and now all this >"inside" fighting which I have seem to be in the middle of, I will gladly >take my leave and let y'all get back to talkin' about the trombone. :) > >Be well and good luck to you all, > >Mike ===================== Too bad...I enjoyed your posts. Sam From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:13 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:39:37 -0800 From: Larry White To: astro@pconline.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: troll: personality profile Message-ID: <38D01129.75613FDE@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could it be adonkeyhole? :>) Larry White Mike Coyle wrote: > > Your report could have easily been condensed into just one word. > > > >Can't really publish it on the list, but it starts with "A" and finishes > >with "hole". > > > >A :-) > > > > Hmmmmmmmm, I'm not sure I understand you, could you be a bit more specific, > A? hehehehe > > M From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:14 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:41:01 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Rests Message-ID: <000b01bf8ecf$c6845900$497401d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This thread just reminded me of the time I subbed for the bass trombonist of the Scottish Symphony Orch on a radio session. The piece we were playing had a thousand and one bars rest before I came in for the last 16 or so. Being the new boy in the band and never having played the piece before I counted the bars religiously. Getting really close to the point I had to make my entry, the 2nd player, who was playing chess with the section leader (they knew the piece backwards) nudged my arm. I looked round with an enquiring expression. He said "your cue is coming up". This interruption completely threw me. I lost my count. Doh!!! A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:14 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:56:09 -0600 From: Jimmy Clark To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Brass Concert Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000315165609.0081a670@etsuodt.tamu-commerce.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear List, For those of you in the Dallas area there is going to be a brass concert this Saturday night that some of you might be interested in. The Date is Saturday: March 18, 2000 Place is: The University of Texas at Dallas (Campbell Road between US 75 and Coit) University of Texas at Dallas Conference Center The concert is by the brass section of the Richardson Symphony. We will play these plus some others I won't list: Fanfare by Gunther Schuller Concert in Re" by G. P. Telemann A couple of trombone quartets Some Gershwin numbers Earle of Oxford's March by William Byrd We will also feature the some of the principal players. I will play Londonderry Air Arr. John Iveson. It is not often that you get to hear professional players play brass choir music. If you are close enough I think you would enjoy the concert. I am sorry, I don't know what the ticket prices are-probably not much. You can find out by calling: 972-234-4195. If you come, introduce yourself to me. Sincerely, Jimmy Clark Principal trombone-RSO From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:15 2000 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:40:38 +0900 From: Joseph Green To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Paris Trombone Quartet Recording?? Message-ID: <38D01F74.5C63@m.u-tokyo.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just want to know if somebody knows where I can find a recording of Paris Trombone Quartet. I have been looking for it in diferents CD stores but I couldn't find it. > Could you help me please??? Yes. The Bellwood catalog lists a few CDs of the Paris Trombone Quartet (all recorded in concert, I think). The catalog says that they accept orders by fax or by mail. The fax number is +81-96-369-5415 (81 is the country code; I assume you'll be calling from outside Japan). The telephone number is +81-96-369-5626, but I have no idea whether anyone there speaks English. The address is 2-18-8 Sakuragi Kumamoto-shi Kumamoto-ken 861-21 Japan Their prices are usually about 3,000-3,500 yen per disk. JG +++++++++++++++ From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:15 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 15:39:19 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell" To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Rests Message-ID: <38D01F27.43360CB6@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Drover wrote: > > This thread just reminded me of the time I subbed for the bass trombonist of > the Scottish Symphony Orch on a radio session. The piece we were playing > had a thousand and one bars rest before I came in for the last 16 or so. > Being the new boy in the band and never having played the piece before I > counted the bars religiously. Getting really close to the point I had to > make my entry, the 2nd player, who was playing chess with the section leader > (they knew the piece backwards) nudged my arm. I looked round with an > enquiring expression. He said "your cue is coming up". This interruption > completely threw me. I lost my count. Doh!!! Ain't it da truth! And they got a great laugh out of it too! There is an arrangement (C. Dragon), I think, of "Maleguana" (sp), that the bass bone has to sit through the entire piece with out a note until the final chord. There is not much more humiliating than to be exactly in the right place at exactly the right time, but for whatever reason, fffffffflub that last note. BTDT! All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:16 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:14:37 -0700 From: "Bryce L. Mecham" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , Rusty McKinney , Subject: Edwards Jazz Horn for Sale Message-ID: <38D0276C.51C2A346@usa.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I need some money for auditions so I have to part with the horn I play the least. It is a 4177cf bell (what Jim Pugh uses), a .508 brass slide, optional counterweight included . I am also selling an Edwards leather gig bag with it. I would prefer to sell them together. New they would be $1550. There are some very small dings on the bell and two small dents on the tuning slide courtesy of my curious 2 year old. Other than that in good shape. I am asking $1300 but will consider reasonable offers. Please reply by email privately. Thanks Bryce Mecham bmecham@usa.net From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:17 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:27:40 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Needed: Some Latin help Message-ID: <006101bf8ede$73c77a80$a91c0f3f@default> Doug, It is the Marian Antiphon O Queen of heaven, rejoice, alleluia: because He whom you were worthy to carry, alleluia: has risen again, as He said (He would), alleluia: pray (to) God for us, alleluia. This was usually found at the end of the Mass in days of old. I don't know about the post Vatican II mass. But then again, that would not be in Latin anyway. Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Yeo To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 3:43 PM Subject: Needed: Some Latin help >Sometimes you just can't put your finger on something you've known >for years. I'm facing "brain clutter" which is forcing me to draw a >blank on an English translation of one particular bit of Latin text >from the Mass: > >Regina caeli laetare, alleluia: >Quia quem meruisti portare, alleluia: >Resurrexit, sicut dixit, alleluia: >Ora pro nobis Deum, alleluia. > >Why: > >My research into original serpent music has brought across my desk >(after looking long and hard) an original serpent tutor book from >1810 which is now in the Paris Conservatoire Library; in it are not >only duos for two serpents (to develop technique) but two >"improvisations" for serpent and choir, whereby the choir sings a >cantus firmus and the serpent improvises above. These improvisations >are the proof I've wanted for some time to confirm that this practice >actually existed (French serpentist Michel Godard, in his spectacular >CD "Repons" does this with a choir of monks). > >But the text.... > >The other duo is the Haec dies (This is the day the Lord has made...) >but I keep getting Regina caeli mixed up with Vexilla Regis and am >drawing a blank. > >I could look all afternoon through my books and probably find it, >then again, I thought I might enlist the help of one of our list's >many monks... > >:-) > >Thanks in advance! > >-Doug Yeo > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:17 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:25:58 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: TROMBONE-L UPDATE Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Friends: In this update, I wll cover three items of business: 1. The List Troll 2. HTML (yet again) 3. Subscription Problem Information 4. SPAM 1. The List Troll While I have chosen NOT to address the recent problems on the list, behind the scene has been another story entirely. I have been in correspondence with several leading electronic media security professionals, and based upon the information I have presented to them, discovery of this individual's true identity will take only a few more instances of the list troll posting abusive or threatening messages, either on or off the list. I have been assured that the troll's activities have violated several laws, and that the security group I am working with will be glad to assist in the prosecution. 2. 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SPAM The trombone-l subscriber database is password protected and only the listowner and list monitor have access to this data. Your e-mail is protected from spam originating from the trombone-l, but individuals CAN cull e-mail addresses from trombone-l posts if they are subscribed to the list. If you suspect you are receiving spam from someone who culled your e-mail address from the trombone-l, please contact me by e-mail as soon as possible. In closing, I truly appreciate reading the posts each of you share with the trombone-l. While we may not always see eye-to-eye on subjects, it is quite interesting to see the wide segment of the trombone world which is represented. LM --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:18 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:35:36 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: kdowdy@oppd.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: King 3B Message-ID: <200003160238.VAA22171@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:25 AM 3/14/00 -0600, you wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Douglas Kilen [SMTP:dkilen@pressenter.com] >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:06 PM >> To: Trombones and related issues forum. >> Subject: King 3B >> >> Hello everyone! I've been on this list for a couple of weeks now, and >> am really soaking up all the information that has come my way. I'm >> primarily a euphonium player, but have been playing trombone in a >> college jazz band (I'm a music ed major) and a church based trombone >> quartet for a couple years now. I've got an old Reynolds Medalist and >> an older Cleveland Superior, but this weekend I ran across a King 3B >> valve trombone that I got to take home for $150. >> > I hope you gave the person that you stole that horn from a kiss !!! >:-) > >> It plays great! Of >> course, for me, the valves are a lot of fun to play, but I'd really like >> to find a slide for it. Being a full time student and a single father >> of two boys, cost is a factor, so a new one is out. Does anyone have a >> used one sitting around that they'd like to part with? What other slide >> sections would fit? Thanks in advance for your reply. >> > I got lucky with mine. The fellow that I purchased my 3B valve bone >from happened to have a wrecked 3B Silversonic in the shop. I ended up with >that slide after forking over $200.00 (which included cleaning, aligning and >refinishing the slide). Recently I have been looking for a new slide since >mine is rather old (1957 or so) and have found out a few things. First, 3B >slides are expensive!! UMI wants $900.00 and even a reputable dealer in the >Chicago area could only discount it to $750.00. Edwards would have been >happy to build me the slide I wanted for around $600.00, but it would not >fit the 3B bell without modifying the bell. That would have rendered the >valves useless. I checked with Blessing to see if the slide from a B5 would >fit, and the answer was no. I did find out that I could buy a whole B5 for >less than the slide on a King 3B costs, however. It seems that the King 3B >fits the bell and slide together backwards from anyone else. Don't know >about Lawler, since the phone rings and rings and my e-mail was not >answered. Anyway, since you only paid $150 for the bell and valves, even >$750 for a new slide is a good deal. Last I checked, the 3B valve bone >alone retails at around $1900. > > Ken Dowdy ================== Here are some ebay prices for 3Bs over the past few months...$550, $650 (silver), $680 (reserve not met), $686 (silver, reserve not met), $700 (silver, reserve not met), $800 (silver). Probably, for an initial outlay of around $6-800, you can get a usable slide AND another bell. Do $75 worth of slide work, choose the bell that plays the best, and I'll bet you could sell the remaining bell on ebay for over $200. Sure beats $750... S. From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:18 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:44:47 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: ebay stuff.... Message-ID: <38D04A9F.B2237D06@nctimes.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody, I have a quick question....I bidded on a Robin Eubanks CD and I haven't heard from the seller.....????.....how long should I wait before I leave negative feedback? Also, I did find myself a Bach 16M that I am very excited about, as well as some very interesting jazz trombone books and some music for very good prices. Eh, well, everything has its problems. Thanks! Elisabeth From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:18 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:53:58 -0600 (CST) From: David Iverson To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: we need a gizmo Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Why count rests if you know the music? In high school I prided myself on not counting rests. My philosophy was exactlty the one you wrote of: listen, know the piece backwards and forwards, and be able to hear your entrances. In fact, be able to hear the entrances of everyone else too. That philosophy hit a huge brick wall when I came to college this year. We go through a much larger volume of very complex music. Good luck trying to listen and feel your way through Copland's Emblems, or Godfrey's Jig, or Sravinsky's Petrouchka. Knowing the music this well is also impractical for many gigs. A couple of months ago I accompanied a choir on campus in a brass quartet. We were given the music, had one run through, and then recorded it. That's just one of countless examples where hearing all of the parts is simply not an option because there hasn't been time. In fact, there have been times this year that I've felt the most difficult thing about music is counting rests - quite a change from my high school philosophy! David Iverson >Fire away! I got my bullet proof armor on... (and it's fire proof too) >Besides, TRY and get through this firewall... > >I had an old Gunnery Sergeant, (USMC), tell me once that one of the most >important things I could be doing while the conductor drilled the woodwinds, >was to PAY ATTENTION to the music, listen ACROSS the band rather than >through it, listen to the ensemble as a single instrument rather than a >conglomeration of voices. If you think about those words of advice, you can >find MANY benefits, one of which was being able to take cues from the band >rather than counting those dad-burned rests. Which also aids in a better >entrance based on blend and balance rather than, "Oh!! Here we go!! Wake >UP!!!.... Aww... missed it again.." I sure heard some great music while >I was in the Marine Corps, and most of it was from the best seat in the >house/field/parade deck/shopping center/street/etc., etc. > >AND a little score study never hurt anyone. > >There's more to what he said than I could write here, but for the sake of >brevity I'll leave it as it stands. > >Roger L. Karren >FORMER Marine Musician From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:19 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:32:45 -0500 From: "John Lavoie" To: Trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Can you identify this horn? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got an email from someone asking about an old trombone they had. He said the only words on the horn are Imperial Model, Franklin. This sounds familiar to me, but maybe I'm hallucinating. I emailed him back asking for a serial number, he wanted the date too, but I haven't heard from him. Can one of you tell me anything significant about the horn from these three words? JOhn John Lavoie Sophomore, Ithaca College http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb. I appologize for the following ad. ____________________________________________________________ Get your 100MB FREE Internet storage! Sign up now - http://www.netdrive.com/?ao=zzn From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:19 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:45:21 -0500 From: Topper To: webmaster@Trombonegod.zzn.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Can you identify this horn? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:32 PM -0500 3/15/00, John Lavoie wrote: >I got an email from someone asking about an old trombone they had. >He said the only words on the horn are Imperial Model, Franklin. >This >sounds familiar to me, but maybe I'm hallucinating. I emailed him >back asking for a serial number, he wanted the date too, but I >haven't heard from him. Can one of you tell me anything significant >about the horn from these three words? > >JOhn Olds... no I'm thinking Chrysler... Cheers, Leo Autions' Underway: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/leo_g@carroll.com/ "You Take The High Notes" http://helius.carroll.com/p/leo_g/ Our musical instruments, parts, tools, classical LP, 1800's and 1900's piano music and with violin editions. A family collection for sale and auction. Items for sale date from before 1813 to 1987. Please bookmark or link page as new items are catalogued weekly. Links will be exchanged upon request. I am especially interested in Musical Instrument History and technical data. Please email me with interesting links. Thank you:-) Leo From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:19 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:39:59 -0500 From: "David S Staines" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: Subject: Help, My Yamaha Bass Trombone is bent! Message-ID: <002d01bf8f01$b487c840$609b9cd1@gstaines> Listers.... Well, not my bass trombone -- a friend of mine has a nice Yamaha Bass Trombone (YSL 613) that plays well and sounds great. The problem is that the dual rotors and extra tubing add alot of weight to the bell section. Recently, a bend in the metal between the two valves has developed. He suspects that the added weight may be responsible. This trombone is available as a single rotor, and we were wondering if when creating this model, Yamaha added the second valve without considering if the metal was strong enough to hold its own weight. Please copy billbone@earthlink.com on your replies (not yet a list member, but I am working on that). Thanks for your suggestions. From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:19 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:50:34 -0500 From: "David S Staines" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Cc: Subject: Re: Help, My Yamaha Bass Trombone is bent! Message-ID: <007101bf8f03$2e07cc00$609b9cd1@gstaines> Listers.... Well, not my bass trombone -- a friend of mine has a nice Yamaha Bass Trombone (YSL 613) that plays well and sounds great. The problem is that the dual rotors and extra tubing add alot of weight to the bell section. Recently, a bend in the metal between the two valves has developed. He suspects that the added weight may be responsible. This trombone is available as a single rotor, and we were wondering if when creating this model, Yamaha added the second valve without considering if the metal was strong enough to hold its own weight. Please copy bonebill@earthlink.com on your replies (not yet a list member, but I am working on that). Thanks for your suggestions. From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:19 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 21:24:50 -0800 From: Larry White To: ksdowdy@email.msn.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Needed: Some Latin help Message-ID: <38D07022.5D2B326F@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kenneth Dowdy wrote: > Doug, > > It is the Marian Antiphon > > O Queen of heaven, rejoice, alleluia: > because He whom you were worthy to carry, alleluia: > has risen again, as He said (He would), alleluia: > pray (to) God for us, alleluia. > > This was usually found at the end of the Mass in days of old. I don't know > about the post Vatican II mass. But then again, that would not be in Latin > anyway. > > Ken Dowdy > > >I could look all afternoon through my books and probably find it, > >then again, I thought I might enlist the help of one of our list's > >many monks... > > ......You could ask your friendly pharmacist or medical doctor. Provided the doctor can transcribe it into legible readable writing, the pharmacist would not have any problem.:>) Larry White From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:19 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:46:45 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Starts with A, ends....(was: Re: troll: personality profile) Message-ID: <20000316064645.95949.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Beat this: Antidisestablishmentarianismhole Starts with an A, ends with hole...heh, heh, heh.... -Aaron Roth >Could it be adonkeyhole? :>) >Larry White ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Mar 16 06:35:20 2000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:54:19 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Yet another mouthpiece question Message-ID: <20000316065419.56920.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Wowsers, I have a whole different set of responses. I've found the V cup (or funnel-shaped cup) to respond pretty quickly, in agreement with Ken; but to me, it has leaned towards a smoother if not necessarily darker sound. Plus, extremes of range get unfocused if not handled carefully. The bowl-shaped cup offers me a little more consistency throughout the registers, but usually the sound to me is a little coarser, especially down low. I have to work harder to get a lot of air through a bowl cup. The response is more dependent on the rim when I use a bowl cup; on average, it's okay. I find everything else to pretty much depend on just how big the mouthpiece in question is. Again, results may vary, and they already have. Cool! -Aaron Roth >Rod, > >Sound and playing characteristics are a subjective matter, but I can give >you my impression. The V cup tends to give a bit brighter tone (my >definition) and a bit faster response. The U (or also called C) cup tends >to darken the tone. For a given diameter and cup depth, the U cup will >have >more volume and that may contribute to the darker tone. I know that tone >color is hard to define, but I find that with a V mouthpiece I get a more >"trumpet" like tone. The U cup shape gives me a more Euphonium like tone. >Other's results may vary. > >Ken Dowdy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rodney Ellard [SMTP:ellard@sprint.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 3:16 PM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: Yet another mouthpiece question > > > > What would be the difference in sound and playing characteristics >between > > a v-shaped cup and a bowl -shaped cup? > > > > Rod ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com