TROMBONE-L Digest 1599 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) by "Adrian Drover" 2) Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass by "Adrian Drover" 3) Re: Texas All-State Follow Up by daboneman 4) Hoser- Romanze by 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) 5) Re: Hoser- Romanze by "Chuck De Paolo" 6) RE: Opinion Survey... Who are the best teachers by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 7) Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) by "Daniel Pliskin" 8) RE: Opinion Survey... Who are the best teachers by "Daniel Pliskin" 9) RE: Definition of "Trombone" by BrianB@PR-CN.COM 10) RE: Opinion Survey... Who are the best teachers by "John McVey" 11) RE: Texas All-State Follow Up by Roger Karren 12) Re: Texas All-State Follow Up by "Joe L. Norcross" 13) [Fwd: Audition Notice - Cruise Ships] by "Michael W. Millar & Dava S. Millar" 14) I need help by Dreco8@aol.com 15) Peanuts Trombone by Elie A Harriett 16) Re: Texas All-State Follow Up by "Adolphus Sprott" 17) Re: Peanuts Trombone by Chris Waage 18) Fw: Chas. Brown trombonist. by "Dean Hubbard" 19) Re: Texas All-State Follow Up by Posaune9@aol.com 20) Henry Mancini Institue by Elisabeth Frederick 21) Re: Texas All-State Follow Up by sabutin@mindspring.com 22) Erhard Ragwitz by Sue Chase 23) Re: [Fwd: Candidate Survey Responses] by Larry White 24) Moral Dilemma (bell dented while on loan) by Sue Chase 25) Re: Texas All-State Follow Up by "Adrian Drover" 26) (no subject) by JFBermann@aol.com 27) Shake by Zemry@aol.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:47 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:31:31 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: <8guion@jmls.edu>, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) Message-ID: <006001bf787a$274f12a0$faaa01d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Guion, David <8guion@jmls.edu> To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 8:26 PM Subject: RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) > Mark Vareschi asked, > > > has anyone a thought on the German word for trombone, Posaune > > and its origins? > > > Sure. It's from the Old English "bussen" (drone) , with the suffix "-aune" > (very loud). A similar English word is "bazooka". A very loud droning instrument? Hmmm, sounds mighty like a bagpipe to me. And Bazooka? Isn't that what Russian bands use in place of Mandolins? No David, this is the definitive answer. The name "Posaune" was adopted by the Germans after they captured Glenn Miller in WW2 after his Paris bound plane veered off course, due to a missing wing flap accidentally blown off by friendly RAF fire. The interrogation went something like this: German soldier: "Vot haf you got in zat kase?" Major Miller: "A trombone". Soldier: "Und vot ist eine trombone?". Glenn: "A seven pos-ish-aune expandable big trumpet (non-exploding)". They were so impressed, they asked him to play in their new musical, "Kolditz Kapers". And the word "Pos-ish-aune", abbreviated to "Posaune" has stuck to this day. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:47 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:31:48 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Message-ID: <006101bf787a$289ec420$faaa01d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: DOWDY, KENNETH S To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:50 PM Subject: RE: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass > No, Dan, wrong again. > > Putting both feet in my mouth comes from a different psycological defect. > Perhaps it is because I also play the trumpet :-) In all honesty, I have > never played a trombone with more than one trigger, or of a bore size larger > than .547. The largest trombone that I actually own is a King 3B. I do own > a valve trombone, which is a very large trumpet. I guess this makes me > guilty of the same problem as a bass trombone player, only on a different > level. True. Not only does a valve trombone have more valves than a bass trombone, it has more slides too. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:47 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 06:52:22 -0600 From: daboneman To: Adolphus Sprott Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: <38AA9D86.C8FF8355@mciworld.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Weston: I understand your comments... but let me fill you in on something. The people who judge the chair placement at all-state here in Texas are band directors with students that are involved. There are some others (college professors) (the list's own Wayne Dyess was judging this auditions), but mostly band directors. These people do not get paid for this. Now there are many things at all-state that are to be judged: 5A all-state, 4A all-state, ATSSB. Now I can guarantee that there are not 15 competent trombonists (let alone double reed players) that are involved with students in the all state system. So what they do is spread them throughout the three auditions so that there are as many judges on that instrument as possible. It is not a perfect system... but it is tried and true. As for what "chair" you got.... there are 1000's of trombonists in the state that would give a limb to be last chair, 2nd band in the all-state system. You should feel honored to be in the top 1% of high school players in Texas. As for the judge that had never heard Symphonie Fantastique... I am sure that he did hear it in his music history class in college... but know that not everyone listens to the same thing... don't judge people on what you don't really know about them. If someone doesn't want to listen to Berlioz, but instead listens to Coletrane... that's ok. It is not a perfect world... you will soon find this out. You will also find out that not all college professors know what they are talking about either. What you need to do is just open your mind and relax. Worrying over trivial things can only harm you in the long run. Think positively about everthing. There is always a positive side to everything. You DID make the all-state band... it doesn't really matter what chair you made. Just food for thought... Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:47 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:18:15 GMT From: 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Hoser- Romanze Message-ID: <38aca069.2757195@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can anyone help me to locate the sheet music for the Romanze by Otto Hoser as played by Alain Trudel on The art of the Trombone. Hickey's has all but the Hoser and the Belcke (don't like that one) from the CD. Thanks. Simon Greatwood From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:47 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:48:20 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: Subject: Re: Hoser- Romanze Message-ID: <002f01bf788c$de694a20$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon & all, Looks like that just might be available, perhaps even for less than $10. I found it this morning after seeing your request here on the Trombone-L. It's our catalog number 34489 and will be up on the website for ordering this afternoon at the latest. Hopefully the publisher has them in stock and I can have some here in about 10 days. Stop by the site later and place an order if you still want a copy. Thanks for bringing this to my attention! BTW - I did not locate the Belker. Perhaps that's a manuscript edition? In Music, ---Chuck General Manager & Webmaster, Trombone Catalog Editor Hickey's Music Center 104 Adams Street Ithaca, NY 14850 607.272.8262 (Phone) 607.272.2203 (Fax) chuck@hickeys.com (E-Mail) http://www.hickeys.com (Website) http://208.134.241.150/weather/us/cities/NY_Ithaca.html (Weather) ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Greatwood <108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au> To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:18 AM Subject: Hoser- Romanze > Can anyone help me to locate the sheet music for the Romanze by Otto > Hoser as played by Alain Trudel on The art of the Trombone. Hickey's > has all but the Hoser and the Belcke (don't like that one) from the > CD. From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:47 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:09:52 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Opinion Survey... Who are the best teachers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not too long ago, someone mentioned David Glasmire, who taught for many years at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. This person called Glasmire a great teacher, and as another Glasmire student, I concur with that assessment. He was well known within about a 50 mile radius of Bowling Green. I have no idea if much of anyone from much farther away knew anything about him. Bowling Green had one of the best music departments in the state, but again, I don't know if it registers nationally. Most music majors from there eventually become public school teachers. Of course, teachers often take part in a wide variety of musical activities on the side, and some of them move from public schools to universities. The point is that there must be dozens of David Glasmires--well known and respected locally but not nationally, whose students learn a lot about the trombone, about music, and about life from them. The question is not so much who are the best teachers, but what do I want to accomplish? Find teachers whose students are doing the kinds of things you want to do. It doesn't matter so much if they are famous. They'll get you to the next level. As I wrote the last time I mentioned David Glasmire in a post, it would be nice to hear people's tributes to other teachers. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:49 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 07:38:22 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) Message-ID: <20000216153822.59010.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In French, a trombone is a paper clip. I guess paper clips were louder in the old days. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:49 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 07:57:33 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Opinion Survey... Who are the best teachers Message-ID: <20000216155733.34510.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Certainly, there is something miraculous about discovering things for yourself, which greatly improves your playing. On the other hand, there is always the possibility of never discovering them and remaining a mediocre player. Good teachers that Iāve had, have given me enough slack to find things out for myself, while at the same time, guiding me in directions that I needed to go. The difference between my average guitar teacher and my wonderful piano teacher, for example, was that the piano teacher could see that I absolutely hated The Merry Farmer and assigned me another piece. The guitar teacher made me go through it because it was the next assignment in the book. On trombone, a good teacher would also be one that is willing to teach nights and weekends. When I first got my trombone, I was doing some consulting. Lessons were only $40.00/hour but taking two hours off of work to go there brought the price up to $160.00. That was the first and last trombone lesson, for me. At this point, Iām not sure that Iād be willing to go back and play Mary Had A Little Lamb, and the like. I do attend every master class I get wind of and, hopefully, thatās guiding me in the right direction. I havenāt recorded my playing in months, though. Iām too afraid of being bummed out from listening to it. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:51 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:14:07 -0500 From: BrianB@PR-CN.COM To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Definition of "Trombone" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > In French, a trombone is a paper clip. Which reminds me of something funny that happened to me when I was working in support for a software company. Those of you who have been on the list for a while might have heard this story before. (Background note here for you PC owners. Macintoshes have a mechanical eject for the floppy disk, so if the diskette gets stuck, you have to poke something such as a paperclip in a small hole to manually release it.) Sometimes in my tech support job, we would get calls on our English line from French customers who really didn't speak English that well. The caller had put a diskette in her Macintosh and it would not eject for some reason. So the conversation went something like this (imagine it with a Quebecois accent). "This disk don't come out" "I guess you'll have to eject it manually" "'ow do I do dat?" "Do you have something small that will fit in the manual eject hole under the floppy drive" "You mean I should stick a trombone in the hole?" I had to bite my tounge at this point, because my first thought was to say "Sure, if you don't have a clarinet handy". The second thought was "Well, a tuba sure won't fit." The best I could manage was "Whatever you have that fits in there." BTW: That worked, so I have added this use to my list of "101 uses for a dead trombone", right after "unusual floor lamp". Brian From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:51 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:26:13 -0500 From: "John McVey" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Opinion Survey... Who are the best teachers Message-ID: <85256887.005A47E2.00@m-ms03.frb.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I waited a while to respond to this because it really is a very complicated question and an excellent topic to be explored on this list. Just so I won't have to keep writing it, every one of the sentences and ideas below are "In my humble opinion." There are without doubt many factors that may define a what makes a good teacher. Is a teacher's effectiveness defined by how good his students are or by their performance results? Of course, but only to a certain degree. A teacher cannot and should not shoulder the responsibility if a student fails or does not progress as quickly as he could due to the student's lack of focus or irresponsibility. Then again, it also could be said that if the teacher were really that good, then the student would be motivated enough not to lose focus and stay interested and excited. While I'm sure many teachers do shoulder that responsibility, I don't believe it should be expected. I worked part time as a golf instructor while stationed in Japan several years ago. I developed a large client base very quickly and was considered a good teacher. This was not because my students went out immediately and won a tournament or broke 80 or even 90. It was because I was successful in communicating to them the basic fundamentals of the golf swing and the concepts involved in playing good golf and enjoying it. I taught them how to have fun and learn at the same time. We had fun during the lessons. I made sure the were given the fundamentals, but also made certain they understood that they would progress only if they put in the practice time outside of lessons. I believe the same principles apply in music. What makes a good music teacher involves, actually centers around, the ability to communicate effectively. And just as importantly, a teacher must be able to adjust the approach, the method of communication, to each student so that student is receiving and understanding what the teacher is sending. I have taken many lessons in the past 5 years and attended many master's classes. Who were the professionals I would consider the best teachers? I don't know, but I can tell you whom I believe were the best communicators. I've never had an actual lesson from Joe Alessi, but I have attended 3 of his master's classes and listened to him in recital, and actually talked with him about stuff other than music. He is without a doubt one of the best communicators I have ever heard. I understand what he says because he has the ability to make it clear. Of course I can't play like him (Yet!), but that's not his fault. I do try very hard to emulate his beautiful clear tone. Another good communicator is Sam Burtis, AKA "Sabutin." I've had only one lesson with Sam, and that was last year while he was in town rehearsing with the Smithsonian Jazz Masterworks Orchestra. And again, I may not be able to perform everything we worked on up to professional level, but Sam is overflowing with down-to-earth, easily understandable, advice and common sense. What do he and Joe have in common? One thing for sure is that they practice what they preach and are successful as performers. Is being a successful performer a requirement before one can become a good teacher? No, there are many excellent teachers who can communicate effectively but have chosen not to pursue a performing career. Another excellent communicator I am currently taking a series of Jazz Improvisation lessons from is Jeff Adams, the jazz chair in the Army's Jazz Ambassadors. In just the first three lessons, Jeff made a very difficult concept very easy for me to understand. Can I do it?, hell no, at least not yet up to the level I want to do it. But that's not Jeff's fault nor is it his responsibility. But I know what I have to do and learn, and it is up to me. So, in my humble opinion, one of the most important factors in what makes the best teachers is effective communication. When you are looking for a teacher, talk and listen to them. If you understand and can relate to what the teacher is saying, then that's a good indicator. If not, don't waste your money. John McVey http://mcveyj.digiweb.com/mcveyj/ From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:51 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:43:43 -0700 From: Roger Karren To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: <6E031E06378BD311AEF20090273CE1BA32DF4B@el-postino.s-vision.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The best way to win an audition for those with "untrained' ears is to "make it obvious who is the clear winner". I know... sounds like a "no brainer" . But you really need to think about that statement and it'll begin to bring more meaning to it. You can analyze the technical aspects of it all you want, you're still sitting 3rd. And the decision wasn't yours, it was somebody else's who was available who couldn't even put a trombone together let alone play it. >From a different perspective, while attending the Armed Forces School of Music's Section Leader Course, we were evaluated on our 4 part arrangements and one of the evaluators was there purely for a listening grade. Her grade was figured into the final grade and in a couple instances it was the difference between pass/fail. The important thing to remember was that even though the arrangements were "technically" correct, the remaining portion of the grade was dependent upon whether or not it was pleasing to a non-discernable ear. That's what you need to concentrate on in addition to all the other things that are inherent when preparing for an audition. Possibly, the other guys hit the Eb and that's what impressed the judges, you didn't hit it and they knew it and thus, you were placed below your ability. If you want to ride the fence of technical ability among your peers, you will forever have to deal with this "problem" if you could call it that. TAKE the audition, make it yours, and make it obvious WHO is the clear winner. Roger L. Karren SSgt USMC FORMER Marine Musician 1984 - 1999 Depot Band San Diego, San Diego, CA III MAF Band Okinawa, Japan III MEF Band Okinawa, Japan FMFPac Band, Pearl Harbor, HI Marine Forces Pacific Band, Pearl Harbor HI Quantico Marine Band, Quantico, VA Marine Band San Diego, San Diego, CA From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:51 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:45:54 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: "Adolphus Sprott" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: <044a01bf789d$4d70cd20$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tomorrow I will be going to the California Band Director's Association annual meeting. Part of this is the all state bands. We too use the members of the organization do the audition placements. Last year I auditioned clarinets. While it is true that I do not play the clarinet, I do know what a good sound is on them (my brother played one and quite well among other things) I can tell if the scale is in tune and that rhythm is OK and the tone of the player. (FWIW the clarinet auditions are split up between 3 teams, one for scales, one team for sight reading and the third for the solo) To me you sound like sour grapes. Did you hear all the auditions? I doubt it. Some players do better in auditions than others. You might be better than the others, then again you might not be as good as you think you are. Another factor that comes into play is where were you in the order of the audition. It is not necessarily good to be the first one in the room. Be glad you were there, you will find out life isn't always fair. You need to learn to live with it ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net -----Original Message----- From: Adolphus Sprott To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 10:00 PM Subject: Texas All-State Follow Up >As a follow up to the Texas All-State audition, I thought I would let people >know how things turned out. The judges had a choice of which excerpts to >choose, and they decided to pick the March to the Scaffold from Symphonie >Fantastique along with excerpts from Symphonic Metamorpheses and the >Florentiner March. To my knowledge, I clearly had the best auditon although >I missed the high Eb. My feeling was since that was my only real mistake I >would still come out first. Despite the missed note, I was still the most >note accurate player in the room. On top of that, I clearly had the purest >sound. As you may have guessed I came out third. The two players who beat >me both hit the high Eb but had quite a bit of trash in their other >excerpts. This disappointed me quite a bit. After talking to the judges, I >found that two of them had never even heard the Symph Fant excerpt before >and one of them never even managed to make his own high school region band. >Why are these people judging us? I have no idea. There was only one real >trombone player judging our audition. To say the least, I was pretty pissed >that the best high school player in the state of Texas is defined by who can >play the loudest whether or not they have solid fundamentals and a good >sound. I guess this is just one of those trials I will encounter as a high >school musician. Thank God this crap is over now. When I asked the judges >how they judged the audition and what they were looking for, none of them >could give me a realistic and meaningful response. It was almost as though >they didn't even know what to listen for. Well, that was last HS audition, >and on Thursday and Friday I get to audition for Indiana U and U of >Michigan. At least if I screw up or place poorly in front of them they will >be smart and experienced enough to explain to me what I need to work on and >what they were looking for in a player. Sorry for seeming so much on edge, >it's just difficult to feel comfortable when you think you were cheated of >something you truly deserve. On an extra note, the person that got first >last year and followed this year with another excellent audition was placed >seventh, well below his deserved chair. Sometimes I feel like the HS >audition process is in shambles. We need knowledgeable musicians judging >auditions of this nature. > >Weston Sprott >weslanke@worldnet.att.net > > > From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:51 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:44:09 -0800 From: "Michael W. Millar & Dava S. Millar" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: [Fwd: Audition Notice - Cruise Ships] Message-ID: <38AB2839.60CDC5CD@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ocmusic@pacbell.net wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR MUSICIANS > > PRESS RELEASE LOS ANGELES AUDITION > > For Immediate Release > > > Please Post This Notice > > Once Again Proship Entertainment will be holding auditions in Los > Angeles > > > Date: Saturday FEBUARY 19thTH 2000 > > Location:Private Studio 4714 Farmdale Avenue > Valley Villege Califorinia > > > Time:12:00 PM to 4:00 PM > > Adjudicator: Dave Borgo (Sax + Ship Experience) > > For more information and for an appointment > > Call ProShip Entertainment toll free at 1-888-477-6744. > > These auditions require sight reading. We are seeking the following > instruments: Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar, Trumpet, Trombone, Saxophone > doubling on Clarinet & Flute, to accompany production shows and variety > acts on board cruise ships. > > We provide work all year round, 1 to 6 month contracts, summer work > available as well. Contracts include room, board & transportation. > > > Proship Entertainment is one of North America's leading agencies linking > musicians and entertainers with luxury cruise ships. Our commitment is > to provide qualified individuals the best wages, the most varied > destinations and comfortable accommodations the cruise industry has to > offer. To date, Proship as been responsible for providing work for more > than 500 individuals on board over 45 vessels. Our clients ships travel > worldwide to breathtaking ports-of-call, from the sun drenched beaches > of Hawaii and the Caribbean to the ice capped splendor of Alaska, to the > fantastic Far East and everywhere in between. > > The cruise ship experience offers musicians a multitude of performing > opportunities. Excellent sight readers could find themselves performing > in fast paced production shows in the true tradition of Vegas and > Broadway. Classical ensembles might be entertaining guests in the dining > room or in the atrium, whereas a lounge or contemporary band would be > playing in the disco or in other venues. Cruising with Proship will not > only help students gain a strong basis of professional experience but > can provide summer work or full time employment opportunities. With the > phenomenal growth of the cruise industry in the last few years, we find > there is a constant and growing demand for qualified musicians to fill > the large number of available positions. > > > To learn more about Proship and cruising opportunities, visit our Web > Site at : http//www.proship.com or call us toll free at 1-888-477-6744. > > POSTERS AND INFORMATION PACKS PROVIDED UPON REQUEST > WE INVITE YOU TO SHARE THIS INFORMATION WITH ANY INTERESTED PARTY VIA > E-MAIL OR OTHERWISE. > > Sincerely, > > Leo Arsenault > Recruitment Director > Proship Entertainment > 5253 Decarie Boulevard, Suite # 308 > Montreal, Quebec, Canada > e-mail: larsenault@proship.com > 514-485-8823 > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Proship Entertainment, Montreal, Quebec, Canada > > > From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:51 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:17:17 EST From: Dreco8@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: I need help Message-ID: <9d.1f78e6a.25dc89fd@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a lot of trouble articulating in the upper register. What can I do to improve my playing higher notes? Brian Jacobs From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:51:27 -0600 (CST) From: Elie A Harriett To: Trombone-L Mailing List Subject: Peanuts Trombone Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Virtually every mailing list I subscribe to is discussing Charles Schultz's death right now. While I have Schultz on the brain, maybe someone can answer this trombone related question: Who was the trombone player in the Peanuts movies and cartoon shows that portrayed the adult voices? Was it one person throughout the series and movies or was it different players? Elie From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:36:25 -0600 From: "Adolphus Sprott" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: <002e01bf78d7$d28fbb80$b8f6490c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe, The fact of the matter is that I did get to hear all of the auditions. That is the way it works for us. I guess I'm just a little disappointed in the judging. When a kid plays with extensive vibrato on excerpts from two marches and winds up in the top orchestra, something's wrong. Isn't it just common knowledge that vibrato is not to be used in orchestral excerpts unless it is a solo in the music? I thought so, but obviously that isn't the case. Oh well, it's over now and I'm moving on to more important things. So this is the last of my comments on this unless someone has additional questions or comments. I didn't mean to come across as a cocky kid who doesn't know what he's talking about, this was just my honest heartfelt opinion. Weston Sprott -----Original Message----- From: Joe L. Norcross To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up >Tomorrow I will be going to the California Band Director's Association >annual meeting. Part of this is the all state bands. We too use the >members of the organization do the audition placements. Last year I >auditioned clarinets. >While it is true that I do not play the clarinet, I do know what a good >sound is on them (my brother played one and quite well among other things) I >can tell if the scale is in tune and that rhythm is OK and the tone of the >player. (FWIW the clarinet auditions are split up between 3 teams, one for >scales, one team for sight reading and the third for the solo) >To me you sound like sour grapes. Did you hear all the auditions? I doubt >it. Some players do better in auditions than others. You might be better >than the others, then again you might not be as good as you think you are. >Another factor that comes into play is where were you in the order of the >audition. It is not necessarily good to be the first one in the room. >Be glad you were there, you will find out life isn't always fair. You need >to learn to live with it >______________________________________ >Joe L. Norcross >Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band >Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band >joetuba@lightspeed.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: Adolphus Sprott >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 10:00 PM >Subject: Texas All-State Follow Up > > >>As a follow up to the Texas All-State audition, I thought I would let >people >>know how things turned out. The judges had a choice of which excerpts to >>choose, and they decided to pick the March to the Scaffold from Symphonie >>Fantastique along with excerpts from Symphonic Metamorpheses and the >>Florentiner March. To my knowledge, I clearly had the best auditon >although >>I missed the high Eb. My feeling was since that was my only real mistake I >>would still come out first. Despite the missed note, I was still the most >>note accurate player in the room. On top of that, I clearly had the purest >>sound. As you may have guessed I came out third. The two players who beat >>me both hit the high Eb but had quite a bit of trash in their other >>excerpts. This disappointed me quite a bit. After talking to the judges, >I >>found that two of them had never even heard the Symph Fant excerpt before >>and one of them never even managed to make his own high school region band. >>Why are these people judging us? I have no idea. There was only one real >>trombone player judging our audition. To say the least, I was pretty >pissed >>that the best high school player in the state of Texas is defined by who >can >>play the loudest whether or not they have solid fundamentals and a good >>sound. I guess this is just one of those trials I will encounter as a high >>school musician. Thank God this crap is over now. When I asked the judges >>how they judged the audition and what they were looking for, none of them >>could give me a realistic and meaningful response. It was almost as though >>they didn't even know what to listen for. Well, that was last HS audition, >>and on Thursday and Friday I get to audition for Indiana U and U of >>Michigan. At least if I screw up or place poorly in front of them they >will >>be smart and experienced enough to explain to me what I need to work on and >>what they were looking for in a player. Sorry for seeming so much on edge, >>it's just difficult to feel comfortable when you think you were cheated of >>something you truly deserve. On an extra note, the person that got first >>last year and followed this year with another excellent audition was placed >>seventh, well below his deserved chair. Sometimes I feel like the HS >>audition process is in shambles. We need knowledgeable musicians judging >>auditions of this nature. >> >>Weston Sprott >>weslanke@worldnet.att.net >> >> >> > > From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:57:57 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Peanuts Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dean Hubbard, a trombone-l member, provided the voices. He's got a great story about it, and he's a great trombonist. In addition to Peanuts, he's performed for Garfield and Friends and is on the Linda Ronstat/Aaron Neville CD as well. Chris >Virtually every mailing list I subscribe to is discussing Charles >Schultz's death right now. While I have Schultz on the brain, maybe >someone can answer this trombone related question: > >Who was the trombone player in the Peanuts movies and cartoon shows that >portrayed the adult voices? Was it one person throughout the series and >movies or was it different players? > >Elie _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit the Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:17:54 -0800 From: "Dean Hubbard" To: Subject: Fw: Chas. Brown trombonist. Message-ID: <029f01bf78dc$72b891a0$9dbf183f@default> Found this in my "sent" folder...... ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Hubbard To: Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 8:53 AM Subject: Chas. Brown trombonist. > Friends, > I was the teacher's voice on the Charlie Brown cartoons, specials, and > commercials from the mid seventies until about 1990. I used my trusty Conn > 6H and a Shastock wooden solotone mute I purchased from a pawn shop to do the sound. It was > and is amazing to me that the noises that got me thrown out of many high > school rehearsals allowed me to buy our first home. Ed Bogas and D. Goyette > were the composers and also did the music for Garfield and Friends as did I. > It was a real ball getting paid to watch cartoons and playing with some of > San Francisco's finest musicians. On these projects Mary Fettig played > woodwinds, Dave Bendigkeit trumpet, Rich Girard bass, Bogas keyboards and > violin, Steve Eriquiga guitar, Norton Buffalo harmonica and Steve Mitchell > drums. > When a french horn was needed (remember the charge for Odie?) Bob Ward of > the Symphony was used. One by one we were all "let go" in favor of synths > and a divice called a Emulator which we dubbed the Eliminator. Most of the > shows were done without arrangements, Ed would write the themes and we would > wing the take. Gary Clayton was the engineer, without him we'd still be in > the studio! > > Truly, >Dean Hubbard >Artist/Clinician for CONN trombones >CONN is a division of UNITED MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS >Bonedean@msn.com >(510) 531-6047 >(510) 336-0243 fax > From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:08:05 EST From: Posaune9@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When you get right down to it All-State doesn't mean crap--plain and simple. Even if you are dissatisfied with the way things turned out for you, you should be happy that you were good enough to make it. Even then, out here in the real world no one cares. Get over it, practice hard, and prepare for your future in music is that's what you intend to do. You should definitely learn to accept these setbacks as you will experience many of these throughout your career--especially if you choose to do music. It has been said that one must fail before he succeeds. Come to understand this now and you'll be WAY ahead of the game. Ryan Johnstone Curtis Institute of Music Philadelphia, PA (215) 496-9266 From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 20:51:50 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Henry Mancini Institue Message-ID: <38A63866.26865DAD@nctimes.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, How strange I haven't gotten any messages, I hope the list isn't off line..... I'm going to be auditioning for the Herny Mancini Institue, I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the program....just some general feedback. Thanks!! Elisabeth From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:34:48 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: <200002170434.XAA31533@fb01.eng00.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:55 PM 2/15/00 -0600, you wrote: >As a follow up to the Texas All-State audition, I thought I would let people >know how things turned out. The judges had a choice of which excerpts to >choose, and they decided to pick the March to the Scaffold from Symphonie >Fantastique along with excerpts from Symphonic Metamorpheses and the >Florentiner March. To my knowledge, I clearly had the best auditon although >I missed the high Eb. My feeling was since that was my only real mistake I >would still come out first. Despite the missed note, I was still the most >note accurate player in the room. On top of that, I clearly had the purest >sound. As you may have guessed I came out third. The two players who beat >me both hit the high Eb but had quite a bit of trash in their other >excerpts. This disappointed me quite a bit. After talking to the judges, I >found that two of them had never even heard the Symph Fant excerpt before >and one of them never even managed to make his own high school region band. >Why are these people judging us? ========================= Weston... Get used to it. First of all, what we play and what people...even the best of the best...hear are often totally different. There's no way to guarantee that ANYONE is going to be on top of their game either as a listener OR as a player at any given time. Second, the entire judging system is entirely subjective...maybe one person's "clear" tone sounds dull and uninteresting to someone else. The one thing I can tell you from years of professional work is to almost NEVER take ANYONE'S opinion of you to heart...good or bad. I have played as well as I ever will some nights and gotten fierce criticism or been totally ignored, and I have played terribly and gotten standing ovations and rave reviews. The only thing that really matters is how YOU know you played. Don't expect rewards to come every time you play well. If you CONTINUE to play well, the eventual result will be rewards of one kind or another, but on any given occasion...performance, audition, whatever...be prepared for anything. ======================================== I have no idea. There was only one real >trombone player judging our audition. To say the least, I was pretty pissed >that the best high school player in the state of Texas is defined by who can >play the loudest whether or not they have solid fundamentals and a good >sound. I guess this is just one of those trials I will encounter as a high >school musician. Thank God this crap is over now. When I asked the judges >how they judged the audition and what they were looking for, none of them >could give me a realistic and meaningful response. It was almost as though >they didn't even know what to listen for. Well, that was last HS audition, >and on Thursday and Friday I get to audition for Indiana U and U of >Michigan. At least if I screw up or place poorly in front of them they will >be smart and experienced enough to explain to me what I need to work on and >what they were looking for in a player. ========================= I'm not speaking particularly of those schools, but as a general rule, don't bet on that being the case just because you've gone up a step in the hierarchy. You're almost as likely to find duds in the college scene as anywhere else. Again, just do what you do and hope for the best. Eventually good players prevail. ======================= Sorry for seeming so much on edge, >it's just difficult to feel comfortable when you think you were cheated of >something you truly deserve. On an extra note, the person that got first >last year and followed this year with another excellent audition was placed >seventh, well below his deserved chair. Sometimes I feel like the HS >audition process is in shambles. We need knowledgeable musicians judging >auditions of this nature. > >Weston Sprott ================== It's hard to get "knowledgeable musicians" on ANY level. This is a job as well as an art...people are collecting a paycheck. Often it's a woefully inadequate paycheck, and they're stretching themselves as far as they can go to pull in a little extra bread. Maybe, in your case, they were tired and weren't really listening. When you cracked the high Eb, THEN they paid attention. Missed high notes will do that. I once played a live TV gig where the lead player...a fairly famous and VERY good player...missed the high Db at the top of "Getting Sentimental Over You". He had been playing impeccably for several hours, under the most difficult conditions...bad conductor, bad sound, not enough rest, etc... What did people remember??? The missed note, of course. He just shrugged it off and went about his business...you should too. Good luck w/your college auditions...those are both good schools. Later... S. From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:31:44 -0500 From: Sue Chase To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Erhard Ragwitz Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000216233144.00851ec0@potsdam.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone, This semester, I have my first recital. I'm playing Erhard Ragwitz's "Sonatine" for Trombone and Piano. I'm looking for any information I can find about Ragwitz. I have access to Ralph Sauer's recording of the Sonatine, but when it was made, Ragwitz was still alive (he was born in 1926). Is he still alive today? I've been looking everywhere, and nothing has turned up. I'd appreciate any input - either on Ragwitz or on the piece itself (interpretation, etc.) Thanks! - Sue Chase * * * * * * * * * * Sue Chase sophomore, The Crane School of Music in Potsdam, NY chase87@potsdam.edu Crane trombones online: http://www.geocities.com/cranebones/ From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:38:39 -0800 From: Larry White To: bazbone@earthlink.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: [Fwd: Candidate Survey Responses] Message-ID: <38AB7B4F.39372C97@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where is the trombone content? I don't know what this is all about? What candidates? L White Vancouver BC "Michael W. Millar & Dava S. Millar" wrote: > Subject: Candidate Survey Responses > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:34:54 -0500 > From: "Nina" > To: "AFTAADV-l (E-mail)" > > To: Americans for the Arts ADVOCACY Listserv members > Fr: Nina Ozlu, Americans for the Arts > Re: Candidate Survey Responses > Dt: February 14, 2000 > ========================================================================= > > Prior to Steve Forbes, Gary Bauer and Orrin Hatch dropping out of the > Presidential race earlier this month, the Associated Press asked the > presidential candidates the following question related to the arts: > > Do you support federal subsidies for the arts? > > DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES: > Bill Bradley: ``Yes. The arts have enriched the lives of Americans, as > well as our economy. The National Endowment for the Arts has been an > important catalyst for that effort.'' > > Al Gore: ``I strongly believe in encouraging and supporting the arts and > would continue the current policy of support. The arts are an important > part of our life and our history and should be supported.'' > > REFORM CANDIDATE: > Pat Buchanan: ``No. The National Endowment for the Arts has subsidized > projects that are blasphemous, degraded and obscene. Let the > Mapplethorpes and Serranos insult God and man on their own dime.'' > > REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES: > Gary Bauer: ``No.'' > > George W. Bush: ``I believe we should continue federal funding for the > arts, but give states a greater say in how the funds are spent. I don't > believe we should spend public money to support obscene material or > denigrate religion.'' > > Steve Forbes: ``''I oppose federal subsidies for the arts. Taxpayers > should not be forced to subsidize offensive and/or obscene artwork. As > President, I will privatize the National Endowment for the Arts.'' > > Orrin Hatch: ``Yes, under certain circumstances and conditions.'' > > Alan Keyes: ``No.'' > > John McCain: ``No. I have opposed federal funding for the National > Endowment for the Arts because I believe it is not proper to use tax > dollars for what many Americans feel are the obscene and inappropriate > projects this organization has supported. I support providing federal > block grants to the states for arts education and artistic endeavors > pursued by state and local authorities, while assuring that federal tax > dollars are not spent on obscene or offensive material.'' From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 00:17:05 -0500 From: Sue Chase To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Moral Dilemma (bell dented while on loan) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000217001705.007a4b20@potsdam.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's a situation for you . . . I loaned my new horn (a King 3B, purchased at the '99 ITF) to a good friend of mine. He's trying it out in hopes of finding a straight horn he likes before he goes out to buy one. His mouthpiece accidentally rolled off a music stand, and came into contact with my bell, dinging it in two places. It's not a largely noticeable injury, and it won't affect the horn's sound. The biggest issue is the fact that it is a _new_ horn, and that he's probably gotten to play it more than I have at this point in time. (Due to time constraints this semester, I'm taking a small hiatus from jazz-playing lately, so the horn was free for him to use.) He feels awful, and has already offered (without my asking) to replace the entire bell, or to at least pay to get the dents out. Having been in similar situations (though not involving something as pricey as a horn), I know how badly he feels. Plus, one could certainly consider it my own responsibility for taking the risk of lending it out in the first place. So, the discussion begins: do I let him pay for it in full, or should I take the blame into my own hands? I'm personally leaning toward a split, each of us paying half to replace it, but I'm curious as to what people have to say on this one. - Sue * * * * * * * * * * Sue Chase sophomore, The Crane School of Music in Potsdam, NY chase87@potsdam.edu Crane trombones online: http://www.geocities.com/cranebones/ From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:26:04 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up Message-ID: <000001bf7914$1ed2c6e0$119a01d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe L. Norcross To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Texas All-State Follow Up > Last year I auditioned clarinets. > While it is true that I do not play the clarinet, I do know what a good > sound is on them... Maybe Joe, but when did you ever hear anyone produce a trombone sound on the clarinet. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:39:30 EST From: JFBermann@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <54.1698ab1.25dd0dc2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_54.1698ab1.25dd0dc2_boundary" Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (rly-zb02.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.2]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v67_b1.24) with ESMTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:23 -0500 Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by rly-zb02.mx.aol.com (v67_b1.24) with ESMTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo24.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) with internal id DAA02323; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:13 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: lists.misouri.edu: host not found) Message-Id: <200002170835.DAA02323@imo24.mx.aol.com> To: JFBermann@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="DAA02323.950776513/imo24.mx.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) The original message was received at Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:08 -0500 (EST) from root@localhost *** ATTENTION *** An e-mail you sent to an Internet destination could not be delivered. The Internet address is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----". The reason your e-mail could not be delivered is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----". The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers. Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail administrator or Postmaster at that destination. ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: lists.misouri.edu: host not found) Final-Recipient: RFC822; trombone-l@lists.misouri.edu Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; lists.misouri.edu Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from JFBermann@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id 1.65.1ba04ae (4321); Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:08 -0500 (EST) Return-path: JFBermann@aol.com From: JFBermann@aol.com Message-ID: <65.1ba04ae.25dd0cbc@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:35:08 EST Subject: Re: Henry Mancini Institue To: eliztbone@nctimes.net, trombone-l@lists.misouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 228 Dear Elisabeth, One of my students had the fortune of spending two summers at the Institiute. He had an excellent time, and had the learning experience of a lifetime. You work with first-rate conductors, instrumentalists, and play some of the finest music around. Not to mention all the extras, like working with Bill Watrous, or touring Zig Kanstul's factory. You'll never regret having attended the Institute, should the opportunity exist for you. All My Best, Jim Bermann, Faculty, Florida Atlantic University From ???@??? Thu Feb 17 08:24:52 2000 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 06:06:39 EST From: Zemry@aol.com To: jjjohnson-list@list.sirius.com, TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Shake Message-ID: <9e.143b896.25dd303f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do you execute the "shake" which appears mostly in jazz?