TROMBONE-L Digest 1597 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Bell Construction Question by "J.c. Sherman" 2) RE: Bass Trumpets - what tone? by " Dan Cloutier" 3) RE: Wet vs Dry by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 4) FW: Wet vs Dry by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 5) Concert in Calgary by James Scott 6) RE: Bass Trumpets by Eric Burger 7) RE: professional-amateur by Eric Burger 8) Toot Canal by Jim Ryon 9) CD players by Jim Ryon 10) Re: Bob Brookwire concert by "Adrian Drover" 11) Re: Bass Trumpets - what tone? by "Adrian Drover" 12) Re: Gliss technique by "Adrian Drover" 13) Re: professional-amateur by "Kenneth Dowdy" 14) Re: professional-amateur by "Kenneth Dowdy" 15) Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) by Douglas Yeo 16) Re: Gliss technique [with another question!] by Joseph Green 17) Re: Valve troubles by Mike Coyle 18) Re: Upcoming Chasanov Recitals and Masterclasses - Observation by Larry White 19) Re: Wet vs Dry - One Liner by Larry White 20) Trombone Culture: was:Philosophy by "Jim Dexter" 21) Update by "Joe L. Norcross" 22) Eupho-mania by TonyC789@aol.com 23) Testing by John Capon 24) Test by Matmutt@aol.com 25) King Liberty 2B Bell on eBay by "Christopher Smith" 26) Test by Gonzalo Fernandez 27) test - I believe I've been disconnected! by Jgicking@aol.com 28) Test? by Randy Fendrick 29) Test( just Delete) by Trmbman@aol.com 30) messages by "Adolphus Sprott" 31) list status by Scott Ruedger 32) Test by "Anthony J. Heins" 33) Re: [TubaEuph] Update by "Gary Maxwell" 34) test - (no mail in a few days) by "David Morrow" 35) King 2b Liberty by "Dick Sleeman" 36) REGARDING LIST OUTAGE by Listmonitor Trombone-L 37) Cases/gig bags for BAch 36BO by David Molter 38) test by Jay Heltzer 39) Re: King Sterling Duo Gravis for sale by Dancordell@aol.com 40) REGARDING TEST POSTS by Listmonitor Trombone-L 41) Re: King Sterling Duo Gravis for sale by Dancordell@aol.com 42) Re: King 2b Liberty by Eric and Candice Swanson 43) Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) by Douglas Yeo 44) Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) by Mark Vareschi 45) RE: professional-amateur by "Daniel Pliskin" 46) The People's Trombone by Jim Tempest 47) Re: The People's Trombone by "Daniel P. Sniderman" 48) RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets) by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 49) Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)] by Dennis Clason 50) Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)] by Mike Coyle 51) RE: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpet s)] by "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" 52) Do-it yourself practice mute? by Atlbrvsnt@aol.com 53) Re: Do-it yourself practice mute? by "Harold L. Garrett" 54) Re: Do-it yourself practice mute? by BassBonist@aol.com 55) Edwards Tuning slide for sale by "P&J Olsson" 56) Re: The People's Trombone by "Daniel Pliskin" 57) Re: The People's Trombone by sabutin@mindspring.com 58) Peoples' instruments? by "Dean Hubbard" 59) Peoples' instruments-PARROT-RAAAWWK!! by BassBonist@aol.com 60) want to buy bass trombone by "Jon Whitaker" 61) Re: Peoples' instruments-PARROT-RAAAWWK!! by Dennis Clason 62) Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass by Dennis Clason 63) Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass by Beth Lewis 64) RE: Peoples' instruments? by "Jim O'Briant" 65) Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass by Mike Coyle 66) Elgar's Third Symphony in Louisville!!!! by Robert Coulter 67) Re: Peoples' instruments? by David Oliver 68) Re: Peoples' instruments? by BassBonist@aol.com 69) eBay (was RE: Peoples' instruments?) by longtones@mindspring.com 70) Masterclass: Mark Lawrence by Tbcwes@aol.com 71) Silly trombone ad by "Jim O'Briant" From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:17:42 -0500 From: "J.c. Sherman" To: Scott.Johnson@turner.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bell Construction Question Message-ID: <38A48A86.D1054528@clevelandopera.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's not much tradition (outside of American lazyness) behind a two-piece bell construction. The older tradition is the one piece format. The advantage of the two-piece construction is a minimizing of labor and a certain ease of construction. furthermore, there are some axes with this construction that sound phenominal (Olds specials, and others). However, the one piece bell requires more skill and labor to manufacture, and the tonal and articulative results of consistant metal, with inconsistant grain (from working) tends to result in a more satisfactory instrument. However, there are always exceptions. J.c. Sherman "Johnson, Scott (TBS)" wrote: > Listers, > > Could someone please tell me the general sound and/or playing differences to be expected from a bell that is constructed in one piece* vs. two pieces**? Yamaha seems to be the only one that offers those distinctions. > > Thanks! > > Scott Johnson > Conyers, GA USA > > * One piece bells are formed from a single piece of metal and have one longitudinal seam down the bell taper continuing on through the bell flare. > > ** Two piece bells have a separate bell taper section that is then brazed(?) to the bell flare. I believe that this is the usual or traditional bell construction method. From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:07:18 -0800 From: " Dan Cloutier" To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: RE: Bass Trumpets - what tone? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:20:51 Douglas Yeo wrote: >most Trombone players can't adjust to the fact >that a trumpet is different. You have to THINK >differently and then play (and Blow) >differently. Quite true, Doug. That reminds me of something that happened last in the Pittsburgh Symphony. We were playing Seigfried's Rhine Journey, but it was one of the reduced "low-budget" versions that the PSO is so famous for, with just three 'bones, four trumpets, and no bass trumpet. There was one of the bass trumpet solos in my 1st 'bone part, and whenever I played it, it sounded unusally bright. Why? Because I was used to playing the passage on bass trumpet, and therefore was still thinking bass trumpet as I played it on trombone. Even the trumpets noticed it. Go figure. --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:02:40 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'Larry White'" , "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Wet vs Dry Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" OK, against my better judgement, only for the Trombone List I will divulge a long kept family secret recipe for BBQ Trombone. Decide to have a big event! Dig a pit and build a sizable fire for smoking, or your guests can just dance around it too. Build fire to 350 degrees, then allow to become slow burning bed of embers. Take trombone out of case (very important, don't skip this step!). Assemble meaty parts into an attractive ensemble. Bring trombone to room temperature with long tones or a Remington for little shavers. Note: (trombone should not be left unattended at room temperature for greater than 2 hours, or allow trumpet or bagpipe player to attempt to handle, or else it will spoil and will make your guests sick to their stomachs) Prepare saucy section with: 1st part top grade hot dog 2nd part envious catch-up 3rd part bottom dweller Wannabe 4th part bottom dweller with lots of spit and bite Glaze entire trombone with sauce (note some prefer the darker taste of unglazed BBQ trombone, be sure to poll your guest a head of time) **Add magic ingredient**(Grandma was a little vague about this part) "Cook for as long as it takes, as part of ensemble, in sections or solos" Serve to guests, expect requests for 2nds and 3rds (and autographs!) Don't forget otherwise useless garnishes such as trumpets, saxes, drums, conductors, etc. After all, they do dress up the visual festivities! Forgive me Grandma :-). -----Original Message----- From: Larry White [mailto:eljaywhite@telus.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:30 AM To: Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL Cc: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Wet vs Dry Prove It!!!:>) L White "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" wrote: > Gary, I just want you to know that NOBODY does BBQ Trombone better than in > Texas, mesquite or otherwise! > > Rick Marple > San Antone Texasssssss > From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:12:30 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: FW: Wet vs Dry Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" -----Original Message----- From: Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 5:03 PM To: 'Larry White'; Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston Cc: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: RE: Wet vs Dry OK, against my better judgement, only for the Trombone List I will divulge a long kept family secret recipe for BBQ Trombone. Decide to have a big event! Dig a pit and build a sizable fire for smoking, or your guests can just dance around it too. Build fire to 350 degrees, then allow to become slow burning bed of embers. Take trombone out of case (very important, don't skip this step!). Assemble meaty parts into an attractive ensemble. Bring trombone to room temperature with long tones or a Remington for little shavers. Note: (trombone should not be left unattended at room temperature for greater than 2 hours, or allow trumpet or bagpipe player to attempt to handle, or else it will spoil and will make your guests sick to their stomachs) Prepare saucy section with: 1st part top grade hot dog 2nd part envious catch-up 3rd part bottom dweller Wannabe 4th part bottom dweller with lots of spit and bite Glaze entire trombone with sauce (note some prefer the darker taste of unglazed BBQ trombone, be sure to poll your guest a head of time) **Add magic ingredient**(Grandma was a little vague about this part) "Cook for as long as it takes, as part of ensemble, in sections or solos" Serve to guests, expect requests for 2nds and 3rds (and autographs!) Don't forget otherwise useless garnishes such as trumpets, saxes, drums, conductors, etc. After all, they do dress up the visual festivities! Forgive me Grandma :-). -----Original Message----- From: Larry White [mailto:eljaywhite@telus.net] Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:30 AM To: Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL Cc: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Wet vs Dry Prove It!!!:>) L White "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" wrote: > Gary, I just want you to know that NOBODY does BBQ Trombone better than in > Texas, mesquite or otherwise! > > Rick Marple > San Antone Texasssssss > From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:33:24 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Concert in Calgary Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I guess that we can call this one shameless self-promotion: Concert in Calgary, Alberta February 12 (Saturday) 8 PM Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra, Hans Graf - conductor Ravel - La Valse Tomasi - Concerto for Trombone and Orchestra Frank - Symphonic Variations for Piano and Orchestra Saint- Saens - Symphony #3 (Organ Symphony) Piano soloist is Stephane Lemelin, Trombone soloist is yours truly If anyone out there is close enough to actually come, say hi - I'll be the one with the knees knocking, and the nervous tic! To those who can get broadcasts from the CBC, they're picking this one up, and it should be aired sometime next month. Jim Scott From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:47:00 +-100 From: Eric Burger To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , "'Douglas Yeo'" Subject: RE: Bass Trumpets Message-ID: <01BF74EE.5C461B00@fra-pci-laf-vty75.as.wcom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Besson just redesigned all of their fanfare trumpets, and the tenor and bass (same length, bass is large shank, bigger bore) are quite well playing, if not a tad long. I wasn't happy with the melodies and Eb's, so the sent a buddy and I out there to try some prototypes - the new ones are good (the older design was a mess). Just did a show with 12 fanfares - I rearranged Olympic Fanfare 1984 to emulate the way the tune was done in the stadium - it sounded great... The point is, if you need a fanfare, or want an beautiful bass trumpet, It's also an option with little wait. Eric Burger USAREUR Band At 1:27 AM -0500 2/10/00, Beth Lewis wrote: > >I've been getting more into valved low brass lately and have no idea >which manufacturers still make bass trumpets. If anyone could pass this >info or, possibly, anything pertaining to individuals who make them (or >the price range) on to me, I'd really appreciate it. Bass trumpet is a niche market, for sure. Few manufacturers make and then stock them, most make them on special order. I've been playing bass trumpet in the Boston Sym since about 1988 and I own two instruments: Bach 3 valve piston, in B flat (New York vintage) Yamaha 4 valve rotary, in C (prototype) Bach still makes bass trumpets, I have no idea of the cost, methinks around $2500 or so? B flat bass trumpet will serve you well for Janacek and Stravinsky - any "band" pieces for bass trumpet. Yamaha made 2 prototypes in C, it is by FAR the best bass trumpet I've ever played, and conductors who hear it always come back and ask me what it is. It is one of two made by them, the other is in Europe somewhere. They don't plan to put them in production as the market is so small, but I'm VERY happy I have one of them. The C bass trumpet works splendidly for Wagner, this I've confirmed with many European players including my friend Bill McElheney who plays bass trumpet with the Vienna State Opera/Philharmonic. Alexander made (makes?) a bass trumpet in C or in B flat, I had one I borrowed from a former student, recently I returned it to him (it was in C) and he sold it to a player in Chicago last year. I tried a Mirafone bass trumpet when I first started looking for a bass trumpet, it was a 4 valve rotary in B flat, but I didn't care for the sound. Getzen makes something called a bass trumpet in their catalog, but it's really a small bore marching trombone all wrapped up. I did use one for many years and finally sold it, 3 valve piston, in B flat. When I bought mine in 1988 it was $500, it's probably more of a marching band instrument but it will work in an orchestra. Thein makes a bass trumpet, as do most custom manufacturers in Europe. They are expensive and you will need to wait to have one built. The finest bass trumpet playing I've ever heard is by Michael Mulcahy on the excerpt CD he made with Jeff Reynolds. Michael is a first class artist and a true inspiration. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:43:19 +-100 From: Eric Burger To: "'John McVey'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: professional-amateur Message-ID: <01BF74EE.714A5AC0@fra-pci-laf-vty75.as.wcom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John wrote Not only does it mean that you consider the music profession as your primary means of support, it also infers that the musician maintains an attitude of professionalism, that is, on-time for every gig, 100% effort, lots of practice, can-do attitude, etc. You hit that one on the head. Now this is for you young-uns out there - It is the little things you do and think that makes the difference, and most is attitude. I have played with a lot of players much better than I, that didn't get called back, and they'll never figure it out. I had a fine teacher in L.A., first call studio player who also played with Lawrence Welk, Lou Rawls, etc., named Don Staples, and I'll try to pass on some of the wisdom he and other fine PROFESSIONALS have passed down to me, to help make my career a success. 1. Be on time - BUT, you must change you mind about what on time is. 45 minutes early is ON TIME, and you should strive to be EARLY. Half an hour early is LATE, and there is NO EXCUSE for being late (except death). 2. Look your best - pack three suits of different colors if your not sure - and spend the $45 on the slacks and shirt, even if the only Gig pays $30. Well groomed hair, beards, and controlled odor a BIG PLUS. 3. Be prepared - show up with a small and a large horn if you don't know what they want. Have every mute available, and know how to use them at the first rehearsal. Don't just practice the music - KNOW IT - listen to recordings, find out about interpretation. 4. Be flexible - Now that you know the music, don't be arrogant or disturbed when the conductor re-interprets. Find the joy in rediscovery. Watch the leader like a hawk. And , DON'T HAVE PLANS for after rehearsal/gig in case it goes late. 5. Be Friendly - Shake hands, say hello, show you're happy to be there. Try to remember names, and use them. Compliment the members in your section on their playing or equipment - even if you don't mean it! Be respectful, and never tell war stories or bad mouth another player - it might be the leaders poker buddy or brother-in-law. Say goodbye when you leave, shake hands again, and tell them how happy you were to be there. 6. Play well - warm up before you go, and don't get tired (or let them know you're tired). Try your best, enjoy the music, and don't freak out about mistakes - it only makes it worse, and draws attention to something that everyone there does. 7. Plan - always write down dates, even tentative ones, and never double book. Ask questions about attire, location, repertoire, time, and pay, when you're hired. If you have a question, call back (it shows you care). If you take a gig, keep it. If you have to send a sub - make sure he plays BETTER than you - out of respect for the group. Don't worry about loosing the gig - if you've complied with the above steps, they will love you and overlook your playing faults. 8. Remember - playing music is a great gift that many of us take for granted - or feel we deserve. But we can only stand on the shoulders of those before us, and in all ways find the joy and wonder in music every time you get to play. I would welcome any additions or deletions to this list - maybe a way to help the up-and comers to get a better start... Eric Burger US Army Band, Heidelberg From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:01:12 -0500 From: Jim Ryon To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Toot Canal Message-ID: <38A4A2C7.9C01AE57@desupernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This news item from the York (PA) Daily Record (Friday, Feb. 2, 2000): "If you're a dedicated horn player, a pesky overbite need not prevent you from jamming like Dizzy Gillespie....Pittsburgh dentist Robert Rogers can do what he calls some 'cheap, easy and reversible' work on a trumpeter's front teeth to help the horn player produce the desired vibrations that, along with lung power and practice, can pump out the best sound." From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:02:23 -0500 From: Jim Ryon To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: CD players Message-ID: <38A4A30F.2E67CCFB@desupernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends: I'm in the market for a new CD player. I'm interested in a single play player with A-B repeat, and excellent sound...What are your favorites and recommendations??? Jim Ryon, Hanover, PA From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:43 2000 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:06:25 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bob Brookwire concert Message-ID: <004c01bf74ed$468ed460$2149063e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Joao Leao To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: Bob Brookwire concert > The whole harmonizer concept is quite interesting and Crook has been applying > it to the trombone in a pretty systematic way for years. It turns two guys > into a full trombone choir at the flip of a switch. Hey that's a good idea. You could play "Seventy Six Trombones" on a concert with just 4 guys and 72 cardboard cut-outs close behind. Now, what about the 110 cornets? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:07:01 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trumpets - what tone? Message-ID: <004d01bf74ed$486c6e00$2149063e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Yeo To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:20 PM Subject: RE: Bass Trumpets - what tone? > You're right, Tim, it should have a sound with a character of a big > trumpet, not a small trombone or a horn. Once the bass trumpet > starts to sound like a horn or a valve trombone it's missed the point > (at least in the context in which composers like Wagner used it - if > a person wants to make it sound like something else in other music, > that's up to them). Of course, trombone players usually play bass > trumpet and we are so conditioned to looking for that warm, dark, > wet, supple, massive, huge, dense, core, mother-of-all-sounds. Most > trombone players can't adjust to the fact that a trumpet is > different. Now let me get this straight. The word "trombone" means "big trumpet" does it not? I know that trombones have been getting bigger and darker toned over the last 100 years, but is this not also the case for trumpets? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:05:45 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Gliss technique Message-ID: <004b01bf74ed$45052720$2149063e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Green To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:51 AM Subject: Gliss technique > I don't remember ever being taught gliss technique, but there are at > least two approaches: one is to keep the speed of the slide as constant > as possible, and the other is to keep the time between half-tones as > constant as possible. Wow, I never considered before that glissandi could be as involved as this. Very few composers/arrangers dictate how a gliss should be played. For instance, if you read a glissando coming from a whole note, where do you start the gliss, at the beginning or near the end of the departure note? I would suppose that the natural way is to start slow, but not too soon, and accelerate to the receiving note. I once played a gliss in a transcription score that sounded best when arriving late at the receiving end, only because I remembered the Basie recording it had been taken from. To keep half-tones constant, it would be different going down than for coming up. The trombone positions get wider going down by a factor of one semitone length times the 12th root of 2. This would mean having to accelerate downward, or decelerate upwards, at that rate. What kind of trombone player could do that kind of math in their head while taking care of all the other business required in playing a chart? Musicians are smarter than most folk in that they can make instant calculations in binary arithmetic. For them to do logarithmic calculations also is asking rather a lot. > So how do teachers handle this? Always teach only one of them? Be sure > students are aware of both, and help them choose the most appropriate > one for each situation? Surely this is a matter of taste or feel. The decision on speed and acceleration should be up to the composer or director. If he/she doesn't know, then it is up to the section leader or soloist to decide. > That leads to the next question: How do composers handle this? Obviously > the two could be notated differently (for the first, a line or a wavy > line; for the second, all the half-tones written out), A portamento is normally shown by a straight line. A wavy line suggests a keyed or valved gliss. When all the semitones in between are written out, the trombonist might think he/she would have to play all the notes individually. That could sound quite messy in a fast glissando. > but which > composers know that much about trombones and are also that careful about > how they notate glisses? Not many. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:48:42 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: professional-amateur Message-ID: <005c01bf74f2$ea258ba0$a73c103f@default> > >I would say that a devoted amateur is one who has no desire to prostitute >his art. Duck, Adrian. I can see incoming on this one :-) Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:57:42 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: professional-amateur Message-ID: <007501bf74f4$2b88efa0$a73c103f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01BF74C1.DFC987A0"
Job = Work
 
Work is a four letter word.
 
Proper Job = Work that pays enough that you don't have to complain about it.
 
Hobby = Fun
 
Heaven = A Hobby that pays enough that you don't need a Proper Job.
 
Some axioms to the above:
 
One man's work is another man's hobby.
 
Anything done long enough starts to become work.
 
Some people can take the most fun pastime and turn it into work.
 
Some people can have fun while they work (at least that is what I have heard).
 
Your expenses will rise to meet whatever your income reaches.
 
Ken Dowdy
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Albert <jalbert@bellsouth.net>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: professional-amateur

Adrian writes: 
    
  It's just that some folk find it difficult to
understand how playing the trombone for money can be classed as a proper
job.


    
What would some folk class as a proper job? 
    
Jeff 



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:05:10 -0500
From: Douglas Yeo 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)
Message-ID: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 12:07 AM +0000 2/12/00, Adrian Drover wrote:

>Now let me get this straight.  The word "trombone" means "big trumpet" does
>it not?


No, no, Adrian, you have it all wrong.

Trombone doesn't mean "big trumpet."

It comes from:

Tromb = a corruption of "bomb," as in explosive devise.

bone = The general name for each of the distinct parts which unitedly 
make up the skeleton or hard framework of the body of vertebrate 
animals.

So..."trombone" means a musical instrument which can deliver an 
explosive sound capable of doing bodily harm to vertebrate animals.

Gee, Adrian, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Haven't you heard *#!*&%$* play recently?

:-)

-Doug Yeo

                   **********************************************
                   *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                   * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                   * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                   *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                   *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                   *                    <><                     *
                   **********************************************
                                        


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:09:28 +0000
From: Joseph Green 
To: Adrian Drover , trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Gliss technique [with another question!]
Message-ID: <38A53F5A.C50053BA@m.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Can anyone name some compositions with glissandi that are  slow and also cover
a wide range?
The only one I can think of right now is a symphony by Hovanness (sorry, don't
have the CD here right now). Are there others?



Adrian Drover wrote:

> Subject: Gliss technique
>
> > I don't remember ever being taught gliss technique, but there are at
> > least two approaches: one is to keep the speed of the slide as constant
> > as possible, and the other is to keep the time between half-tones as
> > constant as possible.
>
> Wow, I never considered before that glissandi could be as involved as this.
> Very few composers/arrangers dictate how a gliss should be played.  For
> instance, if you read a glissando coming from a whole note, where do you
> start the gliss, at the beginning or near the end of the departure note?

I've wondered about that too.


>  I
> would suppose that the natural way is to start slow, but not too soon, and
> accelerate to the receiving note.

1. For ascending and ALSO for descending glisses?
2. To me, starting slow and accelerating feels just as natural as starting fast
and decelerating.
3. And, of course, do "slow" and "accelerating" refer to the speed of the slide
or to the time between half-tones?


> To keep half-tones constant, it would be different going down than for
> coming  up.  The trombone positions get wider going down by a factor of one
> semitone length times the 12th root of 2.  This would mean having to
> accelerate downward, or decelerate upwards, at that rate.  What kind of
> trombone player could do that kind of math in their head while taking care
> of all the other business required in playing a chart?  Musicians are
> smarter than most folk in that they can make instant calculations in binary
> arithmetic.  For them to do logarithmic calculations also is asking rather a
> lot.

Is it really very different from hitting or catching a ball? You can use
calculus to describe the motion of the ball and to figure out exactly where it
will be at exactly what moment, but tennis players and rugby players don't do
it that way.

With practice, a gliss in which the time between half-tones is nearly constant
would seem natural ("second nature", to be precise).


> > So how do teachers handle this? Always teach only one of them? Be sure
> > students are aware of both, and help them choose the most appropriate
> > one for each situation?
>
> Surely this is a matter of taste or feel.  The decision on speed and
> acceleration should be up to the composer or director.  If he/she doesn't
> know, then it is up to the section leader or soloist to decide.
>

That makes sense to me.


> > That leads to the next question: How do composers handle this? Obviously
> > the two could be notated differently (for the first, a line or a wavy
> > line; for the second, all the half-tones written out),
>
> A portamento is normally shown by a straight line.  A wavy line suggests a
> keyed or valved gliss.  When all the semitones in between are written out,
> the trombonist might think he/she would have to play all the notes
> individually.  That could sound quite messy in a fast glissando.

The G-to-C-to-Gb gliss in the Firebird has the semitones written out (I'll
admit, I've only seen it in secondary sources), but its clearly marked as a
gliss, and I don't think anyone tries to play each note individually. (On the
other hand, the whole thing doesn't last very long.)


> > but which
> > composers know that much about trombones and are also that careful about
> > how they notate glisses?
>
> Not many.

Not yet!


JG


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:33:57 -0600
From: Mike Coyle 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Valve troubles
Message-ID: <200002120537.XAA14313@newton.pconline.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You must be right, Dave.  That kind of rotation is not even possible on a
Bach valve (or Conn as far as I recall) because the part of the valve that
protrudes out and attaches to the trigger linkage is shaped such that it
would prevent that sort of rotation.  Perhaps the King is not designed that
way.

Though I like your idea about the "dead man's trigger",  I would venture to
say that when you die your horn will stop playing anyway  :)

Mike


At 09:52 AM 2/11/00 , you wrote:
>Help, please!
>
>A friend just bought a King 4B-F through e-bay (this is not the typical case
>of the "friend" really being me). When the horn arrived, he discovered that
>the trigger must be held down in order to play the horn straight. My idea is
>that someone took the valve out and re-installed it with the ports rotated
>90 degrees so that when the trigger is not engaged, the F tubes are blocked.
>I also told him that maybe this is a "Dead Man's F Trigger": if you die
>while playing, the horn stops. Anyone have any other ideas?
>
>Dave Molter
>Pittsburgh, PA
>
> 
> 

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:57:13 -0800
From: Larry White 
To: chasanov@email.msn.com
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Upcoming Chasanov Recitals and Masterclasses - Observation
Message-ID: <38A4F639.DB3A2268@telus.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Is it my computer or eyes or both that make the type on this messace
from Chasanov so difficult to read. There are a couple of others on the
list who make it extremely difficult for an ole feller like me with
trifocals to try and get in the proper range of the screen to decipher
these tiny letters.
Just an observation - I think!
Larry White
Vancouver BC

chasanov wrote:

> Upcoming Elliot Chasanov Recitals and MasterclassesFebruary 27, 2000,
> 2:00 pmRecitalWestern Illinois University, Macomb March 13-17 March
> 13, 2000, 8:00 pmRecitalUniversity of Texas-El PasoMasterclass at
> UTEP:contact UTEP low brass professor Steve Wilson
> swilson@miners.utep.edufor masterclass time and location March 16,
> 2000, 8:00 pmRecitalEastern New Mexico UniversityMasterclass at
> ENMU:contact ENMU low brass instructor Marc LaChance
> Marc.LaChance@enmu.edufor masterclass time and location  Recital
> ProgramElliot Chasanov, trombone and sackbutt
> Casey Robards, piano
> Program
>
> Sonata No. 1 for violoncello and continuo Benedetto Marcello
>
>
> Ballade, op. 62                                 Eugene Bozza
>
> Sonatina for trombone and piano                 Kazimierz Serocki
>
>
> intermission **at WIUDrei
> Lieder                                                 Johannes Brahms
> (1833-1897) **at ENMU, UTEP
> Vier ernste Gesänge, op. 121 (1896) Johannes Brahms
>
>
> Sonata Vox Gabrieli                                  Stjepan ?ulek


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:00:44 -0800
From: Larry White 
To: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 
 
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Wet vs Dry - One Liner
Message-ID: <38A4F70C.EEAF0DA4@telus.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I guess the only thing you do not describe is what 'cut' you like or feel is the
best to BBQ?
Good reply though!
Regards.
Larry White

"Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" wrote:

> OK, against my better judgement, only for the Trombone List I will divulge a
> long kept family secret recipe for BBQ Trombone.
>
> Decide to have a big event!
> Dig a pit and build a sizable fire for smoking, or your guests can just
> dance around it too.
>
> Build fire to 350 degrees, then allow to become slow burning bed of embers.
> Take trombone out of case (very important, don't skip this step!).
> Assemble meaty parts into an attractive ensemble.
>
> Bring trombone to room temperature with long tones or a Remington for little
> shavers.
> Note: (trombone should not be left unattended at room temperature for
> greater than 2 hours, or allow trumpet or bagpipe player to attempt to
> handle, or else it will spoil and will make your guests sick to their
> stomachs)
>
> Prepare saucy section with:
>
> 1st part top grade hot dog
> 2nd part envious catch-up
> 3rd part bottom dweller Wannabe
> 4th part bottom dweller with lots of spit and bite
>
> Glaze entire trombone with sauce
> (note some prefer the darker taste of unglazed BBQ trombone, be sure to poll
> your guest a head of time)
> **Add magic ingredient**(Grandma was a little vague about this part)
> "Cook for as long as it takes, as part of ensemble, in sections or solos"
>
> Serve to guests, expect requests for 2nds and 3rds (and autographs!)
>
> Don't forget otherwise useless garnishes such as trumpets, saxes, drums,
> conductors, etc.
>
> After all, they do dress up the visual festivities!
>
> Forgive me Grandma :-).
>


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:56:44 -0500
From: "Jim Dexter" 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Trombone Culture: was:Philosophy 
Message-ID: <200002121513.KAA28796@home.msen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 11 Feb 00, at 7:57, Hanspeter Schmid wrote:
> >>>>> Dennis Clason  (" Dennis>" ) says:
>   Dennis> I guess it's time to fan the flames of our "cultural"
Is this still a trombone list?  I am not intending to fan flames below, 
just felt a response was in order related to the subculture of 
trombonists.

>   Dennis> I think that the defining characteristic of American culture
>   Dennis> is syncretism.  We are perfectly willing to borrow almost
>   Dennis> anything.  Along with syncretism there is a desire for Dennis> novelty

A desire for Dennis?   Hmmm.  Novelty - Originality - jazz - 
improvisation - space exploration.  

> Yes, and a desire for greatness and power.  For me (I'm Swiss, and our
> country is both very small and very old), the North American culture is
> a very childish culture: na•ve 

I have never met a trombonist I considered naive.  I know a few who 
are quite old, though.  There's Loui - in his nineties and still 
tromboning strong.  One of the original U of M bandsmen - talk about 
culture!!

There certainly are some people in America who have little if any 
education related to world cultures; seemingly tied into everyday life 
such as what's for dinner, go to work every day, make the house 
payment, and maybe someday buy that truck they have been 
thinking about.  Probably people like that in Europe too I would 
guess.  Then there are the American people who understand that 
most of the world cultures are mixed into American culture to varying 
degrees, and welcome and partake of that aspect of life here in the 
US.  Just one small example would be the Pueblo peoples in the 
southwest part of the country.  Their culture spans back 8,000+ 
years - think about what was happening in Egypt at that time.  The 
Anasazi built some pretty remarkable structures too. 

Sorry, I really wanted to talk more about the trombone culture.  And 
slide technique.  

SOS : Society of the Slide.  What a novel idea.  I can't help myself, I 
really love this subculture that spends some part of their lives 
determining how to best lubricate a long slender chunk of plated 
brass.  And it is an aspect of human culture that spans the globe!!!

Jim D



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:01:26 -0800
From: "Joe L. Norcross" 
To: , "Trombone" 
Subject: Update
Message-ID: <000701bf757a$ce367ac0$04000005@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well it's been almost 2 months since my heart surgery.  I was able to play
within 5 weeks and missed only one rehearsal. Am back to about 80% and feel
another month I should be better than new.
I know many of you had me in your thoughts and prayers and I really
appreciated that.
Although I don't make my living in music, it is the thing that keeps me
going
God Bless You All

______________________________________
Joe L. Norcross
Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band
Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band
joetuba@lightspeed.net



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:57:43 EST
From: TonyC789@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu, TubaEuph@onelist.com, Rvctbone@aol.com,
        translex@earthlink.net, tasha5@earthlink.net, Flehrmac@aol.com,
Subject: Eupho-mania
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Anyone in the SF Bay Area looking for a top-of-the-line euphonium is welcome 
to drop by my place and give these horns a honk. I got 2 Willsons (2900's) 
and a Yamaha 642S on approval from the Brasswind. Let me know soon cuz I 
gotta send a coupla them back.

Tony Clements

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 00 13:49:17 -0700
From: John Capon 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Testing
Message-ID: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Testing

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 23:58:33 EST
From: Matmutt@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Test
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 10:04:28 -0500
From: "Christopher Smith" 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: King Liberty 2B Bell on eBay
Message-ID: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,

I have a nice old Liberty 2B bell (note: BELL ONLY!) up for auction on eBay at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=257405397

Thanks,

Chris

http://www.geocities.com/~christo

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:24:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Gonzalo Fernandez 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Test
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII




From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:17:53 EST
From: Jgicking@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: test - I believe I've been disconnected!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Listmaster.  Please resubscribe me if you find that I'm off for some reason.  
I haven't posted anything, so I suppose I'm not being punished.

Jim Gicking
jgicking@aol.com

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 13:12:09 -0800
From: Randy Fendrick 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Test?
Message-ID: <38A71E27.348CFD4D@accelnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Did everyone get a gig this weekend?
Randy Fendrick
Southside Chicago Seven
Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:17:16 EST
From: Trmbman@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Test( just Delete)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Test......1,2,3 ....is anyone out there

Trombone and Euphonium Player
Visit my Webpage at 
Http://Wactrm.tripod.com
or contact me at Trmbman@aol.com

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:59:59 -0600
From: "Adolphus Sprott" 
To: "Trombone-L" 
Subject: messages
Message-ID: <000301bf7686$d7e70500$97e0490c@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I had my messages postponed, and I would like to know how I go about
receiving messages again.

Weston Sprott



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:08:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Ruedger 
To: Trombone List 
Subject: list status
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hello, 

I have not received anything in 3 days, is the list down?

Just curious,
SR



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:39:38 -0500
From: "Anthony J. Heins" 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <38A778F9.C0DD82CF@stratos.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Test-please disregard


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:29:59 -0800
From: "Gary Maxwell" 
To: , "Trombone" 
Subject: Re: [TubaEuph] Update
Message-ID: <001701bf7693$64b7cb20$ac02a5d1@maxwells>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


> Well it's been almost 2 months since my heart surgery.


> Although I don't make my living in music, it is the thing that keeps me
> going.
> God Bless You All

It's sentiments like this that, I BELIEVE keep us all going and producing
and playing.  Whether its BoBo, Jim Self, Alan Moon, or "Joe Blow" from
Podunk,  making music keeps us all going.

WELCOME BACK, Joe Norcross and continue growing in strength.  See, all those
Arnold Jacobs breathing excercises were worthwhile after all.  (:>))

Gary Maxwell
Bass Trombone
Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:20:29 -0600
From: "David Morrow" 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: test - (no mail in a few days)
Message-ID: <001a01bf76a2$d45234c0$08450cd1@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

test


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:30:07 +0100
From: "Dick Sleeman" 
To: ,
        "Trombones and related issues forum" 
Subject: King 2b Liberty
Message-ID: <000001bf76f0$36bf5280$047dadc1@dick>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi listmates,

On the bell of one of my trombones is engraved King 2B Liberty. I have no idea
what this "Liberty" mark stands for. I bought it second-hand so there are no
certificates. In my old King catalog the 2B is called just that, no extra names.
I checked the UMI site; modern trombones are called "Legend" or "Silversonic".
One more thing: a 2B model 2102 had a dual .481/.491 bore, mine definitely not.

Could anybody out there enlighten me? The serial nrs are 784219 (bell) and 4068
(slide).

Groeten, Dick Sleeman,

Lelystad, Holland.

d.sleeman@hccnet.nl








From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:59:37 -0600
From: Listmonitor Trombone-L 
To: Trombone-L 
Subject: REGARDING LIST OUTAGE
Message-ID: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

For unknown reasons, the trombone-l was off-line from the evening of 
February 11 through the morning of February 14.  The staff at the 
University of Missouri/Columbia's computer services department is 
investigating the problem.

We apologize for this inconvenience, however, when dealing with 
computers, anything can (and usually will) happen.

It is greatly hoped that we all took advantage of the lack of 
trombone-l mail to practice.  

LM
---------------------------------------
  trombone-l digest archives and useful
  trombone-l information are available
   at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:15:04 -0500 (EST)
From: David Molter 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Cases/gig bags for BAch 36BO
Message-ID: <382295038.950537704350.JavaMail.root@web29.pub01>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone know of a lightweight hardshell case or a decent gig bag that
will
fit the Bach 36BO with that F attachment tubing sticking way up over the
top?
I've had and liked ProTec but I don't think it will handle the attcahment
tubing. Or does anyone know if the BAch case covers are worth the money
($70).

Thanks

Dave Molter
Pittsburgh, PA

 


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:14:36 -0600
From: Jay Heltzer 
To: trombone 
Subject: test
Message-ID: <38A80DCA.51834B1B@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

test


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:23:26 EST
From: Dancordell@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: King Sterling Duo Gravis for sale
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For sale:
1960"s King Duo Gravis bass trombone with sterling silver bell. Excellent 
condition-a few very minor dings on the bell. Double valve tuned F and D. 
Great slide with no plating wear. There is some laquer wear on the usual hand 
grip places. Case is in excellent condition.
Email me privately for pictures or questions.
Thanks,
Dan

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:24:06 -0600
From: Listmonitor Trombone-L 
To: Trombone-L 
Subject: REGARDING TEST POSTS
Message-ID: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Rather than sending a test post to the list (which ends up making 
over 1,000 copies of it!), send a message to 
LISTPROC@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU with QUERY TROMBONE-L in the body of the 
message.  You will receive a response with the following information:

Current settings are:

ADDRESS = tsks@cjnetworks.com
MAIL = ACK
PASSWORD = XXXXXXXXX
CONCEAL = NO
PREFERENCES = CCIGNORE

What does this mumbo-jumbo mean?
ADDRESS = is the e-mail address to which your
           trombone-l messages will be sent AND
           the only address you may post from.
           PLEASE NOTE the capitalization of this
           address.  99% of the "HELP, I CAN'T POST
           TO THE LIST!" problems I have fixed are
           a direct result of capitalization
           differences between the subscribed address
           and the way it is entered in the individual's
           e-mail software.

MAIL = ACK
        ACK=acknowledge - you will receive a separate
           copy of every message sent to the trombone-l.
        DIGEST - you will receive a daily digest (one
           rather large e-mail) of the entire traffic
           of the trombone-l.  To see what is included,
           visit http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks and
           click on a date to download the text file.

PASSWORD = XXXXXXXXX
           This is the alphanumeric password assigned
           to your subscription.  Pretty much useless
           information.

CONCEAL = NO
           Some subscriptions have been concealed from
           publication in the Subscription List.  However,
           the subscription list is no longer available
           to non-administrators of the trombone-l.

PREFERENCES = CCIGNORE
           Computer gobbledygook.

LM
---------------------------------------
  trombone-l digest archives and useful
  trombone-l information are available
   at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:38:51 EST
From: Dancordell@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: King Sterling Duo Gravis for sale
Message-ID: <65.1a52012.25d96d7b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sorry, 
The price on the King Sterling bass bone is $2,000.
Thanks, Dan

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:39:49 +0000
From: Eric and Candice Swanson 
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: King 2b Liberty
Message-ID: <38A7E983.E3F4E855@worldnet.att.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dick Sleeman wrote:

> Hi listmates,
>
> On the bell of one of my trombones is engraved King 2B Liberty. I have no idea
> what this "Liberty" mark stands for. I bought it second-hand so there are no
> certificates. In my old King catalog the 2B is called just that, no extra names.
> I checked the UMI site; modern trombones are called "Legend" or "Silversonic".
> One more thing: a 2B model 2102 had a dual .481/.491 bore, mine definitely not.
>

Dick,

Back when your horn was made, the 2B was called the Liberty.  The other models had
other names, the 3B was the Concert, the 4 or 5B was the Symphony, etc.  They
dropped the names for a while and just used the numbers, then they came up with the
new names like "Legend".

All the 2Bs are dual bore except the Jiggs Whigham model which is straight .491"
bore.  I know the slides seem to be the same size (the slide fits if you turn the
outer slide upside down) but, the outside diameter is the same, the inside diameter
of the top inner slide is smaller.

Eric Swanson


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:12:50 -0500
From: Douglas Yeo 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)
Message-ID: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 12:07 AM +0000 2/12/00, Adrian Drover wrote:

>Now let me get this straight.  The word "trombone" means "big trumpet" does
>it not?


No, no, Adrian, you have it all wrong.

Trombone doesn't mean "big trumpet."

It comes from:

Tromb = a corruption of "bomb," as in explosive devise.

bone = The general name for each of the distinct parts which unitedly 
make up the skeleton or hard framework of the body of vertebrate 
animals.

So..."trombone" means: a musical instrument which can deliver an 
explosive sound capable of doing bodily harm to vertebrate animals.

Gee, Adrian, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

;-)

-Doug Yeo

                   **********************************************
                   *                Douglas Yeo                 *
                   * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra *
                   * Music Director, The New England Brass Band *
                   *              yeo@yeodoug.com               *
                   *           http://www.yeodoug.com           *
                   *                    <><                     *
                   **********************************************
                                        


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:44 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:06:46 -0500
From: Mark Vareschi 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)
Message-ID: <01JLWH3WY8XY000RDP@ic3.ithaca.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> So..."trombone" means: a musical instrument which can deliver an 
> explosive sound capable of doing bodily harm to vertebrate animals.


Gee, and I thought it came from Italian.

Really though, has anyone a thought on the German word for trombone, Posaune
and its origins?

Thanks,
Mark


"Philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point,
however is to change it."
Š Karl Marx

-- http://veganoutreach.org


----------

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:08:43 PST
From: "Daniel Pliskin" 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: RE: professional-amateur
Message-ID: <20000214200843.85435.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

HOWDEEEEEEE,

Yea, I have a proper job.  I herd electrons, for a living.  Thatās right 
podner...WHOA!..get on down that wire...ah, excuse me.  OK, up that 
connector and through that chip.

Itās a tough job, but I get enough exercise in my fingers that I can't have 
to go work out at the gym evenings.

DanP

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:14:32 -0800
From: Jim Tempest 
To: Trombone List Post a msg to 
Subject: The People's Trombone
Message-ID: 
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi All,
   Just got back from a thoroughly interesting trip to China with a reserve
army band from Vancouver, British Columbia.  The band performed in the Lunar
New Year's parade in Hong Kong with a contingent of RCMP footguard.  Had a
great time!  
   More interesting (and trombone related) was a side trip to Beijing.
While browsing in a department store, I came across a trombone made in the
PRC.  It was a tenor c/w f rotor and looked to be a large bore.  Also had a
huge bell for a tenor-possibly 9" or more.  Unfortunately, it was in a
display case and there were no sales people around, so I couldn't play it.
The incredible thing was the price-only 880 yuan, something like $125USD!  I
almost bought it just because it was so cheap!
   Anybody ever had the pleasure of playing one of these beasts?
-- 
Jim Tempest


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:26:08 -0600
From: "Daniel P. Sniderman" 
To: , "Trombone List" 
Subject: Re: The People's Trombone
Message-ID: <001701bf7729$bea349c0$6911e3d8@dsl.telocity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Some of my best buds work at Evanston Band & Orchestra/The Saxophone Shop -
and we talk instruments all the time.  In discussions of student horns; they
mention the absolute bottom of the barrel crap to avoid being the Chinese
import.  I forget the brand name.

I don't know if this is the same as what you saw in Beijing.  The
craftsmanship is SO bad that basically if anything goes wrong it can't be
repaired...  I can find the brand name if people are interested.

Dan Sniderman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Tempest" 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 2:14 PM
Subject: The People's Trombone


> Hi All,
>    Just got back from a thoroughly interesting trip to China with a
reserve
> army band from Vancouver, British Columbia.  The band performed in the
Lunar
> New Year's parade in Hong Kong with a contingent of RCMP footguard.  Had a
> great time!
>    More interesting (and trombone related) was a side trip to Beijing.
> While browsing in a department store, I came across a trombone made in the
> PRC.  It was a tenor c/w f rotor and looked to be a large bore.  Also had
a
> huge bell for a tenor-possibly 9" or more.  Unfortunately, it was in a
> display case and there were no sales people around, so I couldn't play it.
> The incredible thing was the price-only 880 yuan, something like $125USD!
I
> almost bought it just because it was so cheap!
>    Anybody ever had the pleasure of playing one of these beasts?
> --
> Jim Tempest
>
>


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:26:46 -0600
From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu>
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Mark Vareschi asked,

> has anyone a thought on the German word for trombone, Posaune
> and its origins?
> 
Sure. It's from the Old English "bussen" (drone) , with the suffix "-aune"
(very loud). A similar English word is "bazooka".

^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
David Guion, Cataloger
John Marshall Law School
315 S. Plymouth Ct.
Chicago, IL   60604
Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552  Fax; (312) 427-8307

"Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog,
it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx

^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:20:22 MST
From: Dennis Clason 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpets)]
Message-ID: <200002142121.OAA225600@nestor.NMSU.Edu>

Addressed to: 8guion@jmls.edu
              trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu

** Reply to note from Guion, David <8guion@jmls.edu> 02/14/00  2:26pm -0600

> > has anyone a thought on the German word for trombone, Posaune
> > and its origins?
> > 
> Sure. It's from the Old English "bussen" (drone) , with the suffix "-aune"
> (very loud). A similar English word is "bazooka".

Hey -- I've got one of those bazooka things!  0.562" bore, 9 1/2 screwbell,  
in-line Thayer valves. Reed players run in fear, string players weep.  Abos  
with didjeridoos have nothing on me (except the ability to circular breathe...
and I'm working on that).

Dennis
--


Dennis L. Clason                                          email:  
dclason@nmsu.edu
Department of Economics / University Statistics Center
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, New Mexico   USA


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:42:15 -0600
From: Mike Coyle 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass
  Trumpets)]
Message-ID: <200002142145.PAA31520@newton.pconline.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dennis wrote:
>Hey -- I've got one of those bazooka things!  0.562" bore, 9 1/2 screwbell,  
>in-line Thayer valves. Reed players run in fear, string players weep.  

Is that desirable?  I'd rather have them enjoy making music with me.

Mike Coyle

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:53:47 -0500
From: "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" 
To: "'TBone List'" 
Subject: RE: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass Trumpet
	s)]
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Dennis wrote:
>Hey -- I've got one of those bazooka things!  0.562" bore, 9 1/2 screwbell,

>in-line Thayer valves. Reed players run in fear, string players weep.  

Mike wrote:
>Is that desirable?  I'd rather have them enjoy making music with me.

Well, at least with a horn like that, you have the power of choice.  Sounds
like one of them thar "win-win" scenarios.

Gordon Bennett
Harris Air Traffic Control Communications

"Eight minute drum solo in the middle of 'Greensleeves.'"
- From "The Top 17 Signs You're At A Bad Renaissance Festival,"
Top 5 Productions

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:02:48 EST
From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Do-it yourself practice mute?
Message-ID: <50.197cc96.25d9d588@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

List,
Is it possible to make a practice mute out of say, a Stone-Lined straight and 
some polyester fiberfill?  Is there any other way to make your own practice 
mute without spending $$? 
Thanks, 
Tommy Cox

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:08:59 -0700
From: "Harold L. Garrett" 
To: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Do-it yourself practice mute?
Message-ID: <38A87CF5.C21E14CF@pacificnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You might want to try  "THE SOFTONE MUTE" available from UMI 1-800-759-9124 or
your local dealer can order it. It was created by Ira Nepus and I have found
that it works well in a hotel room meaning you don't get kicked out when
practicing. It retains a reasonable sense of sound and pitch though the extreme
ranges are out of whack a little, but for the price and the fact that it's a
great bucket mute substitute, without the holes and dings in your bell, I would
recommend it.
Harold Garrett
Atlbrvsnt@aol.com wrote:

> List,
> Is it possible to make a practice mute out of say, a Stone-Lined straight and
> some polyester fiberfill?  Is there any other way to make your own practice
> mute without spending $$?
> Thanks,
> Tommy Cox


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:17:41 EST
From: BassBonist@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Do-it yourself practice mute?
Message-ID: <2f.18da673.25d9e715@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<< Is there any other way to make your own practice 
 mute without spending $$? >>


Fill the cup of your cup mute with clean socks or other fabric until you get 
the desired amount of muting.


Matt Varho
 

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:07:16 -0500
From: "P&J Olsson" 
To: "Trombone List" 
Subject: Edwards Tuning slide for sale
Message-ID: <008001bf7748$9fac8ee0$efc444ce@olsson>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Folks!
I have an Edwards tuning slide for sale.
It is the long, single radius type in yellow brass. It's in perfect
condition ( 1 month old)
and I'll sell it for $125 (I pay the shipping!)
John Olsson
olsson@tusco.net
jolsson@stark.kent.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Instructor of Trombone
Kent State University-Stark Campus
Malone College
Mt. Union College
West Liberty State College
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Canton Symphony Orchestra
Wheeling Symphony Orchestra
Sounds of Sousa Band



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:08:13 PST
From: "Daniel Pliskin" 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: The People's Trombone
Message-ID: <20000215000813.88105.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Perhaps they are dreadful instruments but they're really good barbecued.  
Just add a little soy sauce.

DanP

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:40:52 -0500
From: sabutin@mindspring.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: The People's Trombone
Message-ID: <200002150142.UAB20587@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:26 PM 2/14/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Some of my best buds work at Evanston Band & Orchestra/The Saxophone Shop -
>and we talk instruments all the time.  In discussions of student horns; they
>mention the absolute bottom of the barrel crap to avoid being the Chinese
>import.  I forget the brand name.
>
>I don't know if this is the same as what you saw in Beijing.  The
>craftsmanship is SO bad that basically if anything goes wrong it can't be
>repaired...  I can find the brand name if people are interested.
>
>Dan Sniderman

==============

   I was surfing through ebay recently and came across a rant about a
Chinese horn that someone had bought on ebay and was trying to sell. It was
very funny, but the gist of it was that it was w/out a doubt the worst made
piece of crap this guy had EVER seen.

  Her said the horn was so short it was incapable of being played in tune,
the bell was twisted...I think someone sold it to him on ebay under false
pretenses and then disappeared from his email address...Parrot was the
brand name.

   Caveat Emptor...

   S.


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:39:49 -0800
From: "Dean Hubbard" 
To: 
Subject: Peoples' instruments?
Message-ID: <000a01bf775d$f17c9200$9dbf183f@default>

I was in my local music store a couple of years ago when a call came in from a major department store.  They had an
80 foot Christmas tree that was to be decorated, in part with real musical instruments.  The retailer was able to
purchase these Parrot trumpets for less than  $30.00 a piece new with a mouthpiece and hard case.
When the instruments came to the store they appeared to be fine.  When the owner, himself a fine trumpet player,
tried one of these beauties he realized he had over paid!

That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
Dean Hubbard
Bonedean@msn.com




From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:46:24 EST
From: BassBonist@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Peoples' instruments-PARROT-RAAAWWK!!
Message-ID: <6e.c3da7e.25da1800@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<< The retailer was able to
 purchase these Parrot trumpets for less than  $30.00 a piece new with a 
mouthpiece and hard case.
 When the instruments came to the store they appeared to be fine.  When the 
owner, himself a fine trumpet player,
 tried one of these beauties he realized he had over paid! >>

Tell everyone you know, STAY AWAY FROM THESE.  Parrot, Lark, Sparrow and the 
like are only fit for hanging on the wall.  Period.  

Matt

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:21:46 PST
From: "Jon Whitaker" 
To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU
Subject: want to buy bass trombone
Message-ID: <20000215032146.90241.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Hello all.  Anyone have a good used bass trombone for sale.

Reply privately to jonathanwhitaker@hotmail.com


Thanks!

Jon Whitaker
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:27:24 MST
From: Dennis Clason 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Peoples' instruments-PARROT-RAAAWWK!!
Message-ID: <200002150328.UAA131488@nestor.NMSU.Edu>

Addressed to: BassBonist@aol.com
              trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu

** Reply to note from BassBonist@aol.com 02/14/00  9:46pm EST  

> << The retailer was able to
>  purchase these Parrot trumpets for less than  $30.00 a piece new with a 
> mouthpiece and hard case.
>  When the instruments came to the store they appeared to be fine.  When the 
> owner, himself a fine trumpet player,
>  tried one of these beauties he realized he had over paid! >>
> 
> Tell everyone you know, STAY AWAY FROM THESE.  Parrot, Lark, Sparrow and the 
> like are only fit for hanging on the wall.  Period.  

Are you trying to say these birds are dogs?

Dennis
--

Dennis L. Clason                                          email:  
dclason@nmsu.edu
Department of Economics / University Statistics Center
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, New Mexico   USA


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:27:25 MST
From: Dennis Clason 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass
Message-ID: <200002150328.UAA131490@nestor.NMSU.Edu>

Addressed to: astro@pconline.com
              trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu

** Reply to note from Mike Coyle  02/14/00  3:42pm -0600 
 
 
> Dennis wrote: 
> >Hey -- I've got one of those bazooka things!  0.562" bore, 9 1/2 screwbell,   
> >in-line Thayer valves. Reed players run in fear, string players weep.   
>  
> Is that desirable?  I'd rather have them enjoy making music with me. 
 
Music?  I thought this was about weaponry? 
 
According a (maybe apocryphal) story at a LAPO youth concert, Jeff Reynolds   
drew the short straw to show the kidlets a slushpump.  As the story goes Jeff   
said, "This is a bass trombone.  I found it in a dumpster behind a supermarket.    
With this, I can wipe out entire sections of *those* (indicating the reeds and   
the wire choir)." 
 
Another important lesson I have learned is that teaching and grand larceny have   
a lot in common.  You have to know who to steal from, and how to make it work   
for you. 
 
I leave it to the gentle reader to draw any conclusion she might care to from   
the foregoing. 
 
 
Dennis 
-- 



Dennis L. Clason                                email: dclason@nmsu.edu 
Department of Economics / University Statistics Center 
New Mexico State University 
Las Cruces, New Mexico   USA



From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:50:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Beth Lewis 
To: Dennis Clason 
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Dennis Clason wrote:>  
> > Dennis wrote: 
> > >Hey -- I've got one of those bazooka things!  0.562" bore, 9 1/2 screwbell,   
> > >in-line Thayer valves. Reed players run in fear, string players weep.   
> >  
> > Is that desirable?  I'd rather have them enjoy making music with me. 
>  
> Music?  I thought this was about weaponry? 

Yeah, we call our instruments "axes," don't we?  And the beginnings of
notes aren't called "attacks" for no reason!  (and don't forget that
REAL trombones have triggers...)

;)

Beth
PS: Really, the brass world's nomenclature tends to be a little on the
less aesthetical side of the musical spectrum (I wonder why...).
>  
> According a (maybe apocryphal) story at a LAPO youth concert, Jeff Reynolds   
> drew the short straw to show the kidlets a slushpump.  As the story goes Jeff   
> said, "This is a bass trombone.  I found it in a dumpster behind a supermarket.    
> With this, I can wipe out entire sections of *those* (indicating the reeds and   
> the wire choir)." 
>  
> Another important lesson I have learned is that teaching and grand larceny have   
> a lot in common.  You have to know who to steal from, and how to make it work   
> for you. 
>  
> I leave it to the gentle reader to draw any conclusion she might care to from   
> the foregoing. 
>  
>  
> Dennis 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis L. Clason                                email: dclason@nmsu.edu 
> Department of Economics / University Statistics Center 
> New Mexico State University 
> Las Cruces, New Mexico   USA
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:02:53 -0800
From: "Jim O'Briant" 
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: RE: Peoples' instruments?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dean Hubbard wrote, in part:

> The retailer was able to purchase these
> Parrot trumpets for less than  $30.00 a
> piece new with a mouthpiece and hard case.
> When the instruments came to the store they
> appeared to be fine.  When the owner,
> himself a fine trumpet player, tried
> one of these beauties he realized he
> had over paid!

In addition to "Parrot," there are other brand names that show up with
regularity on eBay and which are almost universally reported to be terrible
in quality.  They are

	"Lark" (a Chinese make)

	"Monique" (I think also from China
		but not positive) a name apparently
		selected because it sounds like
		"Monette"

	"Bessons" (not "Besson" but a rip-off
		name used mostly on pocket cornets
		made in Pakistan)

There are a couple of notorious eBay sellers of these instruments,
particularly of French Horns, who routinely misrepresent the instruments
(selling gold lacquer horns as gold-plated; calling a single Bb horn with a
stop valve a "double horn in Bb and A" and the like.  At least one of them
always includes a detailed explanation of why she accepts only money orders
and will not sell using an escrow service.  Beware!

Jim O'Briant
Bayside Music Press
Gilroy, CA


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:20:42 -0600
From: Mike Coyle 
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Bazookas [Was RE: Definition of "Trombone" (Was: Bass
Message-ID: <200002150423.WAA27539@newton.pconline.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 
>According a (maybe apocryphal) story at a LAPO youth concert, Jeff
Reynolds   
>drew the short straw to show the kidlets a slushpump.  As the story goes
Jeff   
>said, "This is a bass trombone.  I found it in a dumpster behind a
supermarket.    
>With this, I can wipe out entire sections of *those* (indicating the reeds
and   
>the wire choir)." 

What a service it does the low brass community to have someone live up to
the stereotype.  Thank you , Jeff.

> 
>Another important lesson I have learned is that teaching and grand larceny
have   
>a lot in common.  You have to know who to steal from, and how to make it
work   
>for you. 

Gawd - this comment is so ripe for witty retort I can barely sit still!
I'm gonna pass this one up though.  Too easy!  :)

Mike

 
>I leave it to the gentle reader to draw any conclusion she might care to
from   
>the foregoing.

> 
> 
>Dennis 
>-- 
>
>
>
>Dennis L. Clason                                email: dclason@nmsu.edu 
>Department of Economics / University Statistics Center 
>New Mexico State University 
>Las Cruces, New Mexico   USA
> 

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 23:29:59 -0500
From: Robert Coulter 
To: "Bottom, Steve and Jessica" ,
        "Burchard, Richard" ,
Subject: Elgar's Third Symphony in Louisville!!!!
Message-ID: <38A8D645.7CDFB6BF@bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



!!!CONCERT!!!

Southern Seminary Orchestra
            in concert
       Feburary 22, 2000
              7:30pm
        Alumni Chapel

program:
Brahms - Academic Festival Overture
Griffes - The White Peacock
Elgar(Payne) - Symphony #3 in c

This is only the second performance of the Elgar by a non-professional
orchestra, and the 18th performance in history!!! It's also the
southeastern U.S. premiere. It really is a great piece and so far a
rare find.

Hope to see you there.
Robert Coulter


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:54:06 -0800
From: David Oliver 
To: jobriant@garlic.com
Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: Re: Peoples' instruments?
Message-ID: <38A8E9FE.9DD526A1@access1.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yes, I remember seeing these "F-valve" trombones on ebay. The only problem is,
they had no reserve price (minimum) and the same picture kept being used - big
danger sign! No brand name was ever mentioned, yet another danger sign.

Keep in mind that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

To those who want to try ebay, your best first purchase would be from another
trombone player who's had a horn in the closet for 30 years. It happens. I
bought my late 60's King 2B and '58 Conn 6H that way, and they are the only (2)
ebay horns I didn't have to take in for some type of work. You can tell if the
seller played trombone with the right questions.
You can do well with a seller who's not a trombone player (or even musician) as
long as the horn is a deemed somewhat "classic" (Conn 4H, 88H, etc.) and even
including repairs, you don't put in more than the "market" rate (which is what
a music store like Dillon's charges).

My "almost 2 years on ebay" 2 cents. Someday I'll sell my old amateur radio
collection on there, but I haven't gotten around to it yet...
(I bought a digital camera last summer, but have only been a buyer of
trombones, etc. thus far.)

David Oliver
Westminster, Colorado  USA
Bass/Tenor Trombone (utlility), Denver Concert Band
Bass Trombone, Rocky Mountain Christian Church


Jim O'Briant wrote:

> In addition to "Parrot," there are other brand names that show up with
> regularity on eBay and which are almost universally reported to be terrible
> in quality.  They are
>
>         "Lark" (a Chinese make)
>
>         "Monique" (I think also from China
>                 but not positive) a name apparently
>                 selected because it sounds like
>                 "Monette"
>
>         "Bessons" (not "Besson" but a rip-off
>                 name used mostly on pocket cornets
>                 made in Pakistan)
>
> There are a couple of notorious eBay sellers of these instruments,
> particularly of French Horns, who routinely misrepresent the instruments
> (selling gold lacquer horns as gold-plated; calling a single Bb horn with a
> stop valve a "double horn in Bb and A" and the like.  At least one of them
> always includes a detailed explanation of why she accepts only money orders
> and will not sell using an escrow service.  Beware!
>
> Jim O'Briant
> Bayside Music Press
> Gilroy, CA


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:43:20 EST
From: BassBonist@aol.com
To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Peoples' instruments?
Message-ID: <18.eaeb5a.25da4178@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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<< In addition to "Parrot," there are other brand names that show up with
 regularity on eBay and which are almost universally reported to be terrible
 in quality.  They are
 
    "Lark" 
 
    "Monique" 
        
      "Bessons"  (made in Pakistan)
 
 There are a couple of notorious eBay sellers of these instruments,
 particularly of French Horns, who routinely misrepresent the instruments >>

I am SO glad that this information is being put out on the list!  I have been 
wanting to talk about this situation for a long while but the rules of eBay 
are very specific about badmouthing a seller or the products they sell though 
the "Feedback" since there is always the possibility of getting sued!

Other brands to RUN, not walk, away from:

      Heimer

      Xianghai

and unfortunately, the list grows longer all the time. JUNK!

Matt

    

    

      

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 23:48:21 -0600
From: longtones@mindspring.com
To: "Trombones and related issues forum." 
Subject: eBay (was RE: Peoples' instruments?)
Message-ID: <000301bf7778$445a1b40$b1d68ad1@c.moodie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David Oliver wrote:

> To those who want to try ebay, your best first purchase would be
> from another trombone player who's had a horn in the closet for 30
> years. It happens. I bought my late 60's King 2B and '58 Conn 6H that
> way, and they are the only (2) ebay horns I didn't have to take in for
> some type of work. You can tell if the seller played trombone with the >
right questions.

On this note, I'll throw in a reminder (i.e. shameless plug) for the King 2B
I'm currently selling on eBay.  Not as old as the horns David mentions, but
still a nice horn that I've owned, operated, and maintained up to this day.
Now I play mostly larger-bored horns, and it needs a new home (plus I need
to pay rent--see previous threads about playing trombone for a living....).
There are 3 days left on the auction and there is no reserve price.  Check
it out at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=256350333

Thanks,
--Brandon Moodie


From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:51:48 EST
From: Tbcwes@aol.com
To: dclemens@newenglandconservatory.edu, Tuba78ac1@aol.com, sadowdy@yahoo.com,
        mdunn@gallalee.as.ua.edu, Mikee@mit.edu, mfabulich@hotmail.com,
Subject: Masterclass: Mark Lawrence
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Presenting Mark Lawrence
Principal Trombonist, San Francisco Symphony

Sunday, February 27th at  11am
Seully Hall, the Boston Conservatory

Mark H. Lawrence is the Principal Trombonist with the San Francisco Symphony. 
 He has also been Principal Trombonist with the Denver Symphony, a member of 
the Empire Brass, and is a graduate of the Curtis Institute of Music.

Mr. Lawrence has given Master Classes worldwide, and has been on the 
faculties of Boston University, the Tanglewood Institute, the Music Academy 
of the West, the Rafael Mendez Brass Institute, and most recently, 
Northwestern University.  He currently teaches at the San
Francisco Conservatory of Music.  Many of his former students have successful 
orchestral careers in the U.S. and Europe.

Mr. Lawrence's discography includes three solo CDs, ten chamber music 
recordings, with Summit Brass, Empire Brass, Center City Brass Quintet, Bay 
Brass, and trombone quartet, and over thirty recordings with the San 
Francisco Symphony.

                                    -----------------------------------

Local directions to Boston Conservatory, 8 The Fenway, Boston:

Take the Green line to the Auditorium stop (or just go to Tower records at 
the corner of
Newbury St.and Mass Ave).  Go one block South (towards symphony hall) and turn
right onto Boylston St.  Go two blocks and turn left onto the Fenway. First 
door on your
left is the Conservatory.  

For more information, contact Amanda Mason at the Boston Conservatory 
912-9124.

For more information about the school and more global directions see 
www.bostonconservatory.edu.

From ???@??? Tue Feb 15 08:05:45 2000
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 23:15:16 -0800
From: "Jim O'Briant" 
To: "Trombone Mailing List" 
Subject: Silly trombone ad
Message-ID: 
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Someone on eBay has the following trombone listed:

> 88H Conn F attachment trombone. Rose brass
> bell and outer slide. 547 bore through F
> section with deluxe wood case. Stand
> included. New cost $2185.00 3 years
> ago. Must have $1750.00 teenager
> needs a car!!

All I have to say is that it's a good thing the teenager isn't buying a
house here in the Silicon Valley area.  If that were the case, they'd have
to get half a million dollars for the trombone!

Jim O'Briant
Bayside Music Press
Gilroy, CA