TROMBONE-L Digest 1586 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) What does your email address say? by Douglas Yeo 2) RE: New Yeo audition tape mp3 files by "Berggren, Erik" 3) Re: Valve replacement $$? by "Jim Battell" 4) Mouthpiece Exchange Update by Chris Waage 5) Bach Gold Brass Tuning Slide by Amtrom1@aol.com 6) RE: I need some recordings... by Joseph Green 7) RE: Degrading CD's by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 8) RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 9) Re: VALUE of double pedal Bb by "Paul Hill" 10) degrading CDs by "Sean Vander Veen" 11) RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb by Mike Coyle 12) RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 13) Fwd: VALUE of double pedal Bb by REOnofreyJ@aol.com 14) RE: Spike Jones Trombonist by James A Prindle 15) Re: double valve - double pedal Bb? by James A Prindle 16) Re: tonal centers - astounding German musicians by "Adrian Drover" 17) Re: double pedals? Confused by "Adrian Drover" 18) Re: Gregorian Chant for Trombone? by "posaune rex" 19) Re: double pedals? Confused by Dennis Clason 20) pitch/register terminology by "Lawrence Borden" 21) Shires by "Steve Beck" 22) Tuba needed by TonyC789@aol.com 23) Re: Shires by Mike Coyle 24) Cases by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 25) Re: Shires by "Rodney Ellard" 26) RE: Spike Jones Trombonist by "Burger, Eric SSG (USAREUR-BAND)" 27) Olds 1* mouthpiece by FOpal@aol.com 28) Re: Spike Jones Trombonist by John Capon 29) RE: Degrading CD's by "John Lavoie" 30) Re: copyright ? for arrangers by "Chuck De Paolo" 31) Re: Spike Jones Trombonist by "Les Benedict" 32) Brahms 4 by "Walter K. Nadolny" 33) Re: Shires by "posaune rex" 34) RE: Spike Jones Trombonist by "Wayne" 35) Re: Cases by Earl Needham 36) Terry Cravens' Email? by Randy Campora 37) Fwd: Shires by B78TBone@aol.com 38) Re: Shires by BassBonist@aol.com 39) Re: Shires by Tbcwes@aol.com 40) USC vs UCLA by Randy Campora 41) Chicago/NY Phil Concerts on Web by Randy Campora 42) Shires recommendation by Peter Ellefson 43) Re: Cases by Douglas Yeo From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:19 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:14:08 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: What does your email address say? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following article from today's Boston Globe has no trombone content, however as this is an email list, I thought the points in it to be very interesting and that the list might enjoy it. The original can be found at the following URL (no spaces in the URL if your email program breaks it into two lines, today only - Tuesday) at: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/032/metro/E_mail_address_may_be_send ing_wrong_message+.shtml OK, I'll put in some trombone content. I'm a bass trombone player. :-) -Doug Yeo ============ E-mail address may be sending wrong message By Patricia Wen, Boston Globe Staff, 2/1/2000 Next time you go for a job interview, don't just fret about your skirt length, tie color, or the firmness of your handshake. In today's image-obsessed society, you might want to give some thought to your e-mail address. Does Smith@MindSpring.com reflect the creative you? Or should you stick to something safe such as Smith@AOL.com? Most of us can't pick our home address, but we can choose our personal e-mail address, and what we pick can say something about our cyber know-how, our personality, and our frugality. One young man's job prospects with AT&T Corp. weren't helped when he handed in a resume containing an e-mail address that read (fictitious last name) Smith@Hotmail.com. Microsoft Corp.'s Hotmail may be one of the nation's biggest free e-mail services, but some people can't help thinking of something risque when they read ''hot.'' Others link Hotmail with junk e-mail, noting that unsavory companies are known to hijack this free service to deliver messages. ''Let me give you some advice,'' said Gary Morgenstern, an AT&T public relations executive, to the unsuccessful job-seeking lad. ''Go out and get a new e-mail address.'' The beauty of this new quandary is that you have so many addresses from which to choose. In the last two years, countless Web sites have offered free electronic mailboxes to anyone. You can also get e-mail addresses through any Internet service provider, some of which don't charge anything for their services. These choices can be bewildering, especially to the estimated 70 million, or two-thirds, of US households that don't have a, private e-mail address. Do you want a personal mailbox linked with the word MindSpring? Yahoo? Netscape? While people care a lot about the speed and sophistication of their e-mail service, some consumers, particularly those new to the Internet, are also influenced by the sound of the address. ''If you're starting brand-new with the Internet, you often want to pick an e-mail address that appeals to you and says something about you,'' said Emily Meehan, an analyst with Yankee Group, a Boston-based technology research firm. The Boston Globe asked a dozen Bostonians - veterans of the Internet and newcomers - for their impressions of a variety of possible e-mail addresses. Their reactions varied, with one domain name invoking images of a miser, while another made the user seem techno-savvy. The most telling information is usually found in the last half of the address, referred to as the domain name. It has potentially revealing information about the user's choice of Internet providers, Web sites, or organization affiliations. Do you want to sound as technologically ambitious as Smith@MediaOne.net? (MediaOne provides high-speed cable Internet connections and costs more than most dial-up services.) Or are you willing to risk sounding cheap by going with a free Internet services and becoming Smith@NetZero.com? If you're Smith@EarthLink.com, you may know you're with one of the nation's large Internet service providers, in partnership with Sprint, that gets high marks for consumer accessibility. You might know that the service was named Earthlink to show the Internet's role, in the words of spokesman Kurt Rahn, in ''linking different parts of the Earth.'' But some people had a different reaction. ''It sounds like a wildlife type group,'' said Sara Massarello, 20, a sophomore at Boston University who has been weighing several Internet options. ''It has an environmental sound.'' Apple Computer recently began offering free e-mail services and the suffix ''mac.com'' to anyone who wants to be identified as a Macintosh user. Several colleges and universities offer their institutions' names in Internet addresses to alumni. Image concerns don't usually come into play with work e-mail. People ordinarily don't have control over their office e-mail address, and the domain name is generally the name of their company. With private e-mail, though, you can even craft your own domain name. Web sites, such as Mail.com and Register.com, allow you to pick a domain name that suits your personal style from a number of domain names to which they have rights.. At Mail.com, for instance, you can choose to be Smith@Cheerful.com, Smith@InOrbit.Com, or Smith@DogLover.com. You can choose domain names that reflect your occupation or hobbies. For a few years, many colleges have offered alumni the option of using a school-related e-mail address, a nice perk if you want to impress someone with your educational background. Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for instance, have an e-mail forwarding system for alumni. When e-mail comes to Smith@post.harvard.edu, for example, school officials forward the mail to another e-mail account designated by the alumnus. Some people care less about the words in the domain name and more about the simplicity of the address. They want something that's easy to remember, prompting many of them to go with Smith@AOL.com or Smith@Yahoo.com. Aaron Grossman, a Boston lawyer, uses Yahoo for his private e-mail because it's a well-known name, not out of affection for the site's reference to ''Yahoos,'' the coarse and brutish race in Jonathan Swift's satire, ''Gulliver's Travels.'' Juno may be the goddess of marriage and daughter of Saturn, but one West Roxbury man said he picked Juno simply because it's a free e-mail service with a simple four-letter domain name. Hotmail may seem like a catchy address, but its genesis is actually quite mundane. A company spokeswoman said the original company logo was HTML. This stands for Hypertext Markup Language, the codes that help display Web pages. The creators took this language name, then added the letters ''AI'' to form the phrase, ''HTMAIL.'' From that they jumped to ''Hotmail.'' As Yvonne Guzman of Malden hunts for a job these days, she plans on abandoning her free e-mail account. The 30-year-old student said she thinks a free service makes it look as though you move from place to place. She now wants an e-mail address that shows she has a paid Internet service provider, or ISP, possibly MindSpring. When looking at an e-mail address, people's reactions vary wildly depending on their familiarity with the Internet, as well as their age. Younger people generally are more comfortable with off-beat names, while older people may prefer more neutral addresses. Joe Tecce, an associate professor of psychology at Boston College, said he knows many people who insist they don't make judgments about others' e-mail addresses. But Tecce said people ignore this phenomenon at their own peril, perhaps proving they deserve to be Smith@Clueless.com. ''People want to think they're above letting the sound of the e-mail address affect them,'' he said. ''But on a subliminal or unconscious level, it does affect them.'' This story ran on page A01 of the Boston Globe on 2/1/2000. © Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company. From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:03:28 -0600 From: "Berggren, Erik" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: RE: New Yeo audition tape mp3 files Message-ID: <69B69101614FD3119D9F00104B9883E70E8DF5@bkxchusr01.bk.state.ks.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Super stuff! I could listen all day! -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Yeo [SMTP:yeo@yeodoug.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 4:05 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: New Yeo audition tape mp3 files Auditions are always a hot topic (sometimes too hot...), so in the spirit of being helpful to those who may have to make an audition tape in the future, I have dug through my thousands of cassette tapes at home and have found the audition tape I made when I auditioned for the Boston Symphony Orchestra in 1984. I have used this tape in the past when I've given masterclasses about "How to make an audition tape" and I made a copy for John Marcellus a few years ago who gave a masterclass on the same topic at an International Trombone Festival. When I auditioned for the BSO, I was required to make a tape with 8 excerpts and one solo movement: Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra (2 excerpts) Rossini - William Tell Overture Wagner - Ride of the WalkŸre (major section) Kodaly - Hary Janos Haydn - The Creation (#26) Schumann - Symphony 3 ("Rhenish") Wagner - Tannhauser Overture Bach - Cello Suite 5, Sarabande Of the 88 tapes submitted at that time, I have been told mine was the only one advanced to the live round (where I joined other players who had been invited who were not required to make a tape). I have put this audition tape on my web site and you can find the excerpts (complete) on my mp3 page at http://www.yeodoug.com/yeomp3.html Also there you will find a bit of commentary about how I made my tape, links to my long article on taking orchestral auditions (including tips on making tapes), as well as links to excerpts in my "Bass Trombonists Orchestral Handbook" for which I have printed music and comments. One caveat - the tape has suffered some deterioration over the years due to repeated playings on various kinds of equipment and poor storage. That said, it is still a fair representation of what I submitted to the Boston Symphony in 1984. Too, my playing has changed in some significant ways in 16 years, and if I had to do this all over again, I would play many of the excerpts differently (different phrasing, breath marks, etc). But that's part of growing as a player. Jeff Reynolds of the Los Angeles Philharmonic has made an excerpt recording, so I add my audition tape to the pot of excerpts available to those who are interested to hear how one person "did it" and to hopefully gain some insight on what a tape which was accepted at a major orchestra audition sounds like. Sometime in the future I'll add some excerpts which will shed some light on the opposite - how NOT to make an audition tape... Please note that my mp3 page also includes sound clips of my upcoming solo CD release, CORNERSTONE, and my previous solo releases, PROCLAMATION and TAKE 1, as well as some clips from the New England Brass Band CD CHRISTMAS JOY! You can also hear an interview I gave to the Canadian Broadcast Corporation about the serpent (I play the serpent as well). I hope this is helpful. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:08:28 -0500 From: "Jim Battell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Valve replacement $$? Message-ID: <030a01bf6cc6$32702d00$24dec0d1@192.233.85.19.192.233.145.6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Steve- Order in lots of 100 and the price will come way down. Sincerely, Bob Osmun PS- for $500, we can remove the Besson trombone from the Hagmann valve assembly. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Beck To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:02 PM Subject: Re: Valve replacement $$? > >From: Robert Osmun > >>We have new Bach trombones with Hagmann valves in stock and are offering >>Hagmann or Thayer Axial Flow valves installed for $995 during February, >>March, and April. > >Robert, that seems awful steep for a Rene Hagmann valve. I notice that the >Besson 944R comes standard with a Hagmann and can be purchased new for $1169 >from Brasswinds. I would imagine the valve itself is a lot cheaper than a >Thayer. > > -Steve > > From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:20:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Mouthpiece Exchange Update Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After a slight re-design, over thirty new mouthpieces have been added to The Mouthpiece Exchange. If you are looking to buy or sell a mouthpiece, visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com Thanks! Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:28:29 EST From: Amtrom1@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Bach Gold Brass Tuning Slide Message-ID: <37.cc2b9d.25c8559d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listers, I've heard that Bach makes a gold brass tuning slide, though I have never actually seen it. Have anyone seen or played a Bach with a gold brass tuning slide? Thanks, Aaron Moats From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 00:49:54 +0000 From: Joseph Green To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: I need some recordings... Message-ID: <38977F22.590FA077@m.u-tokyo.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi List, > This semester I'm going to play the Holst Duet for Trombone and > Organ,and Meditation from Thais. I wasn't able to find recordings > of these at my school's library, so I wanted to ask the list about > any recordings. For the Holst, I know that Christian Lindberg has a > recording of it on his Windpower CD (which I have ordered from > Hickey's), but I believe he plays it with band accompaniment and as > I plan to play it with organ I would like to have a/some recordings > of the piece with organ accompaniment. For the Meditation, I read > that it was written for violin, so I would prefer any > recommendations for recordings of a violin playing it. > > Thank You, > Bodie Pfost Alain Trudel's recording of the Holst (with organ) is on a CD called "The Art of the Trombone" (on the Naxos label, 8.553716). Another recording of the Holst with organ is by Niels-Ole Bo Johansen and Ulrik Spang-Hanssen. For the Meditation from Thais, you could try the recording by Joe Alessi on his "New York Legends" CD. The label seems to be "CALA Artists". There are dozens of recordings of it on violin, but maybe you can find one of it in context, i.e. the opera. Now if only there were a recording of Doug Yeo playing his arrangement of the Meditation..... JG From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:24:00 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: webmaster@Trombonegod.zzn.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Degrading CD's Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082F05@LEE2> John, I was the original poster. While in a car I heard part of a story about CD's degrading because of a manufacturing defect. It was a long run of CD's on many labels but pressed at the same plant in England, and would cause them to slowly corrode, turn a bronze color, and become unplayable. There was a standing offer of free replacement. The trouble was I didn't get any more details than that and have been unable to find any mention searching the Web. I now live in fear that some favorites in my collection may be on borrowed time, I was hoping someone on the list would know more. Or, if it turns out to be urban legend (it was on PBS!!!) then I can relax. yours, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: John Lavoie [SMTP:webmaster@Trombonegod.zzn.com] > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:33 PM > To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Subject: Degrading CD's > > Someone asked about a new technology where CD's are made to self > destruct. Sorry I forget who it was, I deleted the post by accident. > > The technology you heard about has just been unveiled, and has only > been used in a few new releases. The basic idea is that there is a > layer of the CD between the outer layer and the data layer that will > turn opaque after the reading laser has run over it a certain number > of times. All of the data is still on the CD, but it cannot be > read. Unfortunately the CD's that have been released with this > technology are not labeled as such. > > If you want more information, there was an article on > www.slashdot.org sometime last week. Send me a private email, and > I'd be glad to hunt down a more specific link for you. > > JOhn > > > John Lavoie > Sophomore, Ithaca College > http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb > > > http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb. I appologize for the following > ad. > ___________________________________________________________ > Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:29:48 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: astro@pconline.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082F06@LEE2> This is not true. I have finally caught Mike in an error. Mike says, > Don't just try to jump up to F or G by pressing the horn > through my face. Anybody can play a high F by pressing hard enough, but > it > is not usable or musical or good for you to do so. > [Richardson, Tim] However I am now lifting weights regularly and have become much stronger, but unable to add a note to my range that way. I still can't play a high F, I just squash my chops flat. I think part of the problem is on trombone you can really only pull hard with your left hand. On euphonium I can get much higher as I can get a better grip and really haul with both hands. PS seriously I always play the double pedals in the same position, not one position lower, and I play the false tones also in the corresponding position (Eb in 3rd, not 4th). I can hit them both ways but I think they are stabler in the nominal position, because I think the upper harmonics are reinforced. yours, tim richardson From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:29:19 -0900 From: "Paul Hill" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: VALUE of double pedal Bb Message-ID: <000c01bf6cd9$e0ea0780$2e5ffea9@navak-n01n> Great post, Mike! Thanks, Paul Hill Bass Tbn Juneau, AK -----Original Message----- From: Mike Coyle To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 3:59 PM Subject: VALUE of double pedal Bb >Several people have written to me asking WHY someone would play in the >double pedal range and what value it really has. My last post addressed my >first reason for doing it, but I'd like to address the second issue. > >Is there musical value in playing double pedal Bb? Yes and no. If someone >cannot play down there with enough substance to be able to use those notes, >I doubt that it will ever change anyone's opinion of his playing. If he >CAN play down there and, for instance, plays a very soft double pedal Bb >under a nicely voiced Bb chord, say he plays it under another bass trombone >playing pedal Bb, it could have a very nice effect - not unlike the >subpedals on the organ (essentially Sensurround ™ ) > >One person was concerned that younger players might now feel the need to >play like a monster in that range just as 11th graders are now all killing >themselves in order to play high F. If ANYTHING that you are trying to >play is so far outside your present ability it is generally going to be >harmful for you to continue that way. Example: if you have a very solid >high C (3rd space treble clef) and want to work toward a solid D, and it is >possible to hit that note with a certain amount of reliability and no >extra pressure, then go for it - keep working till it feels like the C used >to, THEN move on. Don't just try to jump up to F or G by pressing the horn >through my face. Anybody can play a high F by pressing hard enough, but it >is not usable or musical or good for you to do so. > >The extreme bottom: it is pretty much of a freak show. If you can do it >and it adds to an ensemble sound (this may happen twice in a lifetime), >then fine, do it. If you can't play it with any real substance keep trying >to get down there if for no other reason than it will help the notes above >it to feel more secure and musical. > >Always use the outer extension of your horn's range to strengthen and >support the notes within that range that are practical and will be used >musically. Just do it just to become a "musical curiosity" - we have >enough of those already :) > >I hope this has help to assuage the fears of those who were afraid (perhaps >with justification) that students would focus on the extreme low register >to the detriment of their attempts to learn to play the trombone in a more >thoughtful and well-rounded way. Remember. In another attempt to mitigate >those fears let me say this: working in the exctreme low register is >probably not going to cause you any harm > >Mike From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:36:55 -0600 From: "Sean Vander Veen" To: "trombone list" Subject: degrading CDs Message-ID: <001401bf6cda$efc1f780$1e00a8c0@MOTZ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go to the Hyperion Records Website at http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ Scroll to the bottom of the menu frame and click on "About bronzed CDs." This will give you the story you're looking for. Plus, they have a lot of great recordings!! Sean From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:49:50 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb Message-ID: <200002011750.LAA06495@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:29 AM 2/1/00 , you wrote: >This is not true. I have finally caught Mike in an error. Mike says, > >> Don't just try to jump up to F or G by pressing the horn >> through my face. Anybody can play a high F by pressing hard enough, but >> it >> is not usable or musical or good for you to do so. >> > [Richardson, Tim] However I am now lifting weights regularly and >have become much stronger, but unable to add a note to my range that way. I >still can't play a high F, I just squash my chops flat. I think part of the >problem is on trombone you can really only pull hard with your left hand. >On euphonium I can get much higher as I can get a better grip and really >haul with both hands. Try this, Tim: Put the end of the slide up against a wall, grab the horn by the bell and by the slide, then lean in and push against the wall as hard as you can while also pulling the horn with both hands with as much strength as you can, tighten your lips till it hurts and then BLOW!!!!! See, high f is nothing at all :) Mike PS - kids, only try this under the supervision of an adult. From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:20 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:54:28 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Oh come on, you guys! I thought everyone knew that the painless (and less destructive to your horn) way to hit the high F was to wrap electrical tape aound the shank of a Schilke 24 until it fits into your horn, and then grab the end of the bell . . . Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Coyle [SMTP:astro@pconline.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:50 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb > > At 11:29 AM 2/1/00 , you wrote: > >This is not true. I have finally caught Mike in an error. Mike says, > > > >> Don't just try to jump up to F or G by pressing the horn > >> through my face. Anybody can play a high F by pressing hard enough, > but > >> it > >> is not usable or musical or good for you to do so. > >> > > [Richardson, Tim] However I am now lifting weights regularly and > >have become much stronger, but unable to add a note to my range that way. > I > >still can't play a high F, I just squash my chops flat. I think part of > the > >problem is on trombone you can really only pull hard with your left hand. > >On euphonium I can get much higher as I can get a better grip and really > >haul with both hands. > > Try this, Tim: Put the end of the slide up against a wall, grab the horn > by the bell and by the slide, then lean in and push against the wall as > hard as you can while also pulling the horn with both hands with as much > strength as you can, tighten your lips till it hurts and then BLOW!!!!! > See, high f is nothing at all :) > > Mike > PS - kids, only try this under the supervision of an adult. From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:59:56 EST From: REOnofreyJ@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: VALUE of double pedal Bb Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_ab.820cb1.25c8791c_boundary" In a message dated 2/1/2000 12:51:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: << Try this, Tim: Put the end of the slide up against a wall, grab the horn by the bell and by the slide, then lean in and push against the wall as hard as you can while also pulling the horn with both hands with as much strength as you can, tighten your lips till it hurts and then BLOW!!!!! See, high f is nothing at all :) >> Mike, I find it helps if I can get a tuba player to really push hard on the back of my head at the same time! -Rick Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v67_b1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:51:35 -0500 Received: from po.missouri.edu (po.missouri.edu [128.206.12.137]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v67_b1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:51:21 -0500 Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15137; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:51:19 -0600 Received: from newton.pconline.com (IDENT:root@newton.pconline.com [206.145.48.1]) by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14889 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:50:55 -0600 Received: from micron (m18-5-8.pconline.com [206.145.52.72]) by newton.pconline.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA06495 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:50:53 -0600 Message-Id: <200002011750.LAA06495@newton.pconline.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:49:50 -0600 Reply-To: astro@pconline.com Sender: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Precedence: bulk From: Mike Coyle To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: VALUE of double pedal Bb In-Reply-To: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082F06@LEE2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: astro@mail.pconline.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 11:29 AM 2/1/00 , you wrote: >This is not true. I have finally caught Mike in an error. Mike says, > >> Don't just try to jump up to F or G by pressing the horn >> through my face. Anybody can play a high F by pressing hard enough, but >> it >> is not usable or musical or good for you to do so. >> > [Richardson, Tim] However I am now lifting weights regularly and >have become much stronger, but unable to add a note to my range that way. I >still can't play a high F, I just squash my chops flat. I think part of the >problem is on trombone you can really only pull hard with your left hand. >On euphonium I can get much higher as I can get a better grip and really >haul with both hands. Try this, Tim: Put the end of the slide up against a wall, grab the horn by the bell and by the slide, then lean in and push against the wall as hard as you can while also pulling the horn with both hands with as much strength as you can, tighten your lips till it hurts and then BLOW!!!!! See, high f is nothing at all :) Mike PS - kids, only try this under the supervision of an adult. From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:59:24 -0800 From: James A Prindle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Spike Jones Trombonist Message-ID: <20000201.095925.-297851.1.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Now, before anyone gets offended, I have a question to ask concerning >his trombonist, who can be heard on many of his albums. For years, I >have searched for an answer, and it finally occurred to me that the >Trombone-L list might be able to solve it. >Again, I apologize, but his trombonist could produce a sound on any >given solo which can only be described as "extremely wet flatulence". >Does anybody out there know the secret on how to do it? >Regards, Mike Terry I'm not absolutely certain but I think the trombonist you're asking about was Ray Heath, who passed away here in San Diego a few years ago. Ray was a great player and and a wonderful, crusty personality with a ton of stories about his career with "the"big bands and later in the studios. He "retired" in the late 60's but played gigs right up to the end. If I recall correctly, he did play with Spike Jones. On a gig he would frequently break up the other musicians with the sound you describe. He was always willing to share how he did it but I could never quite get it and I don't know of anyone who could get the "tone quality" or "projection" of that sound. He said he did it by an "oink" position of the tongue and a tight throat while playing a low Ab or G with a slightly puckered embrochure, but I've heard him play entire melodies with that sound. Something else he would do on recording sessions where the producer was in the booth and being somewhat asinine would be to play a short passage while "talking" (kind of like the trombonist/adult on Peanuts cartoons), coming up with the most foul and obscene comments about what was going on. The engineers and booth people could never figure out why the musicians were busted up guffawing and rolling on the floor. He was a terrific player and could do a great Tommy Dorsey as well as Dixie and superb BeBop. We all miss him. Jim Prindle ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:19:43 -0800 From: James A Prindle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: double valve - double pedal Bb? Message-ID: <20000201.101944.-297851.2.Jimandcat@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like the "13th" position one myself (D valve 7th) for tone but get more volume out of the "false" tone 1st or 2nd. I like the 1st position a little better as it picks up the overtones in that position. Funny story about low Bb (pedal 1st, 2nd harmonic D valve 7th). I was rehearsing the Stravinsky Octet and the bassoonist was battling the low Bb trill to C (awful fingering combination). While he caught a breath, I picked up my horn and easily trilled Bb/C in 7th using the middle finger valve (D/F attachment in 7th). My friend gave me a dirty look and said, "I hate you!" ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:36:49 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombone List" Subject: Re: tonal centers - astounding German musicians Message-ID: <000001bf6ce4$29299ec0$968701d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Clason To: ; Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:36 PM Subject: Re: tonal centers - astounding German musicians > The weirdest key signature I ever ran into consisted of one sharp and one > flat. Seems like a good way of showing the player that the music is in a minor key, though the sharp on the 7th degree would need to be naturalised in a descending scale, and the 6th degree would still need to be sharpened when ascending (unless it's in the opening notes of "What Are You Doing With the Breast of Your Wife", oops sorry, I mean "Rest of Your Life"). A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:38:36 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: double pedals? Confused Message-ID: <000201bf6ce4$3862b700$968701d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Smee To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:29 PM Subject: Re: double pedals? Confused > - but I'm > afraid having my feet attached to the slide will slow down my slide > technique in Till Eulenspiegel. I guess I'll just have to practise > more. Foot controlled slide technique does come in handy when the arranger insists on you using your Wah-wah mute while playing a valved note. > Now, if you could do a lip trill on a double pedal, > THEN I'd be impressed! You can trill on 18 foot pedal Bb, using the D valve, though the trill is 1 octave wide and rather slow to speak. BTW, has anyone tried arpeggiating up to 24th harmonic (or higher) on this pedal? The partials get so close up there, its almost like a portamento. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:29:17 PST From: "posaune rex" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Gregorian Chant for Trombone? Message-ID: <20000201192917.58846.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Another great gregorian chant collection (16th century) is that of Soderlund and Scott. It includes voicings from 1-6, and a small commentary and translation section. The book is often used as a companion to Gauldin's 16th century counterpoint text. It uses bass, treble, and treble 8vb clefs. It is not specifically a trombone book, but it is in the modern notation so it is not too tough for the average player to read (I played some duets out of it with my 8th grade brother). I think it is a great selection of the different styles of chant written in the time, by various composers. It even includes some multi-movement masses. Prentice Hall publishes it ("examples on gregorian chant and sacred music of the 16th century"), and I think it cost me about 15 bucks at the school music store. I use it for warmups, tuning, ensemble, and a million other aspects of playing. Write me if you want to know anything else about it! stacy werblin Eastman School of Music posaune_rex@hotmail.com http://uhura.cc.rochester.edu/~sw002g ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:41:46 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: double pedals? Confused Message-ID: <200002011942.MAA128644@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: slide.rule@adios.co.uk trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from Adrian Drover 02/01/00 10:38am -0000 > BTW, has anyone tried arpeggiating up to 24th harmonic (or higher) on this > pedal? The partials get so close up there, its almost like a portamento. Not on that one, but David Fetter calls for some, mmmm, *interesting* antics on low C in the second movement of Insomnia at Pops (for unaccompanied bass trombone). I don't have it right here, but the instructions are something like "Phony C7 arpeggio ... work valve, sounding like a sports car squealing tires around a corner", written above a low C with a fermata over it. I wish I could find an appropriate forum to play that work ... anybody have an April Fool's day concert scheduled? Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:05:39 -0600 From: "Lawrence Borden" To: Subject: pitch/register terminology Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In general I prefer to use the American Standard Notation. In this C4 is middle C and every note is a "4" as you go up until you reach the next C. This one is C5. So our "tuning" B-flat is B-flat3 and our high B-flat is B-flat4. High C is then C5. This system eliminates any question about the absolute pitch and is very helpful. Lawrence Borden Nashville Symphony Orchestra Vanderbilt University From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:57:20 -0500 From: "Steve Beck" To: "Trombone-l" Subject: Shires Message-ID: <001301bf6cf6$f09deee0$f6320923@becks.cl.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Galen Zinn >On October 8, 1999 Steve Shires wrote an open apology on this list Mr. Shires does notanswer my e-mail, etc etc etc I share Mr. Zinn's concern. With apologies to Chris, I am not complaining the quality of service I received, I am however, warning anyone who may have romantic ideals about a Shires trombone. Mr. Shires may (or may not) make a fine trombone. However, I have no evidence that he is any kind of businessman. A few months ago I went trombone hunting. Based on all the glowing reports I heard on this list I E-mailed Mr. Shires. After reading of his re-commitment to the customer in the E-mail referenced by Galen, I was very hopeful. Mr. Shires response? Nothing. I came to the conclusion that if I had no value as a potential customer, I certainly would not have any after the purchase. So I bought a quality horn from his competition. They return phone calls and actually answer questions. In short, they treat me as if they value my business. -Steve From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:19:51 EST From: TonyC789@aol.com To: philip.chevallard@peterson.af.mil, Chevalla@aol.com, bcompose@ix.netcom.com, tasha5@earthlink.net, jkendall@harborside.com, Subject: Tuba needed Message-ID: <6d.ef204b.25c8a7f7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BBb - 4 valve, must be in excellent condition, or better. Case?? Budget $4,000 Tony Clements From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:41:23 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: becks@pilot.msu.edu Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Shires Message-ID: <200002012142.PAA29415@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All this stuff about custom horns and business problems makes me happy that I am no longer an equipment junkie like I was when I was a kid. I currently have two used horns (Bach 42B and 42) which are fantastic horns and were dirt cheap. Doesn't get any better than that. :) Mike At 02:57 PM 2/1/00 , you wrote: >From: Galen Zinn >On October 8, 1999 Steve Shires wrote an open apology on >this list >Mr. Shires does not answer my e-mail, > >etc etc etc > >I share Mr. Zinn's concern. With apologies to Chris, I am not complaining >the quality of service I received, I am however, warning anyone who may have >romantic ideals about a Shires trombone. Mr. Shires may (or may not) make a >fine trombone. However, I have no evidence that he is any kind of >businessman. > >A few months ago I went trombone hunting. Based on all the glowing reports >I heard on this list I E-mailed Mr. Shires. After reading of his >re-commitment to the customer in the E-mail referenced by Galen, I was very >hopeful. > >Mr. Shires response? Nothing. I came to the conclusion that if I had no >value as a potential customer, I certainly would not have any after the >purchase. So I bought a quality horn from his competition. They return >phone calls and actually answer questions. In short, they treat me as if >they value my business. > > -Steve > From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:42:34 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "'trombone-l'" Subject: Cases Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The case for my 88-H has gotten so banged up that I think it's time to get another one. I called one nearby music store and was quoted a price of $192.50 plus tax. That price includes shipping. It is a UMI case and is specifically for an 88-H with closed wrap, which is what I have. The price represents a 30% discount off the catalog price. Is this a good price, or can I do better with something else? ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:58:28 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Shires Message-ID: <001d01bf6cff$7c81b9c0$bef094d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIk wrote: >All this stuff about custom horns and business problems makes me happy that >I am no longer an equipment junkie like I was when I was a kid. I >currently have two used horns (Bach 42B and 42) which are fantastic horns >and were dirt cheap. Doesn't get any better than that. :) > ANYBODY with money can buy a new horn. But I find more pleasure in buying a good used horn for a good price. I picked up a Conn 100-H around Christmas for $400 USD. It needed a little work and it ain't in perfect shape, but what the hey ... Rod From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:07:53 +0100 From: "Burger, Eric SSG (USAREUR-BAND)" To: "'TRBNTERRY@webtv.net'" , TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: RE: Spike Jones Trombonist Message-ID: <7FCBEE52B9AAD2118D0C00A0C9E98B0B384884@1perscmdexch01.heidelberg.army.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yes - but I'm afraid I a gentleman and won't disclose this family kept secret. eric -----Original Message----- From: TRBNTERRY@webtv.net [mailto:TRBNTERRY@webtv.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 6:16 AM To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Spike Jones Trombonist FORWARD: For those of you having never heard of Spike Jones, he was the uncommon man's forerunner of PDQ Bach. Spike REALLY knew how to murder a song, and he did it with such aplomb that no one will ever really take his place. Spike. himself, was an incredibly gifted percussionist, with an impeccable sense of timing. Spike was savvy enough to use only the best in the business, and his recordings and videos will testify to this. He knew he was on the right track when he could reduce even the most gifted and serious musicians to sheer, unadulterated laughter. Now, before anyone gets offended, I have a question to ask concerning his trombonist, who can be heard on many of his albums. For years, I have searched for an answer, and it finally occurred to me that the Trombone-L list might be able to solve it. Again, I apologize, but his trombonist could produce a sound on any given solo which can only be described as "extremely wet flatulence". Does anybody out there know the secret on how to do it? Regards, Mike Terry From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:21 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:21:30 EST From: FOpal@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Olds 1* mouthpiece Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well let me rephrase my question. I wanted to ask if an Olds mouthpiece was as good as a 6 1/2 AL or so. I just wanted to know if it was a good mouthpiece. I wanted to know how would help me build my playing ability compared to a Bach 6 1/2 AL Frank Opal From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 00 14:55:15 -0700 From: John Capon To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Spike Jones Trombonist Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Again, I apologize, but his trombonist could produce a sound on any >given solo which can only be described as "extremely wet flatulence". >Does anybody out there know the secret on how to do it? > >Regards, Mike Terry Mike, When I saw Spike he was playing at the Cave Theatre Restaurant in Vancouver in the '60s. The trombonist was Carl Fontana!!! Ever heard of him. The "extremely wet flatulence" is produce by raising the tongue until it almost touches the roof of the mouth and playing in the low register. One has to experiment a bit. Carl was an expert at a whole range of stuff. But it is the tongue raising that is the key. Try it, you'll hate it!! Laurie Bauer, a Toronto trombonist, is my favourite at this technique. One can often hear him do it for a warm up. Anyway, the sound you are interested is what we called the "Golden Tone". I believe the sound was given its name by Ralph Sauer when he was teaching at the University of Toronto. If a student came to a lesson without adequate preparation he or she was taught how to produce the "Golden Tone" (or that is the story I heard, you can ask some of Ralph's Toronto students to clarify) John From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:09:20 -0500 From: "John Lavoie" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Degrading CD's Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quite a remarkable thing when someone writes a post about a manufacturing error that causes CD's to degrade, and someone else has information that they're actually working on a technology to do it on purpose. First is the link Tim Richardson gave about the manufacturing error. http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Industry/news/media-problem.html This problem could potentially effect everyone on the list, so it's definitely worth a read. Next comes an article about how they are now engineering CD's to self destruct. It's compared to DIVX, only it doesn't look like you can dial up and 'purchase' more viewings. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,33781,00.html This link comes courtesy of www.slashdot.org. To view the discussion about the technology see http://slashdot.org/article.pl? sid=00/01/20/1229205&mode=thread More recently on Slashdot was a discussion about the shelf-lives of different storage mediums. During this discussion on slashdot, http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/01/22/1924250&mode=thread , a link was provided that was supposed to have some information about actual data about the life expectancy of CD's, http://www.cd- info.com/CDIC/Industry/news/media-problem.html Unfortunately I couldn't find any definite answers there. >From everything that I've been able to find about this, the expectancy for CDR/W's is up to 20 years for the blue/green discs, and up to 100 years for the Gold/Planinum discs. This assumes that they are "properly stored" which means in darkness and low humidity. I haven't found any material about traditional CD's and DVD's but since it takes a much less powerful laser to read them, I'd assume that it's around the 100 years of the gold CD-R's. BTW, if you cut and paste these Slashdot links, be sure that there isn't a space inserted after the question mark. John Lavoie John Lavoie Sophomore, Ithaca College http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb http://members.tripod.com/Trombone8vb. I appologize for the following ad. ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:52:41 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Re: copyright ? for arrangers Message-ID: <005401bf6d0f$6d2c4ca0$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike and all, As they say out west, "Thar's copyright in dat dar arrangement!". Seriously though, if the opera is really old (pre 1925 or so) the opera itself would be public domain. However the arrangement itself can be copyrighted because it is a "new" creation. Technically, if you alter the arrangement, and it's copyrighted (see below), you are in violation. Only the copyright holder (the arranger in this case) has the legal authority to change his/her work. But... The "never been published" bit brings up an interesting situation. Although a work doesn't need to be published to be copyrighted, prior to 1986 works had to be registered with the Library of Congress or at least imprinted with the copyright symbol to be protected by the law here in the US. After 1986, the Berne Convention provided automatic copyright protection for all works as they were created, "Copyright on the Fly" if you will. If in your case you are sure the work was not copyrighted back in the 70's, then you might legally be allowed to alter it without the owner having recourse. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, so call your own lawyer to double check. Hope this helps. Or maybe it just further muddies the water! ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > Hey you guys, I have a situation which is new to me and am wondering if > any of you might know the answer to this. I recently recieved an > arrangement of an opera prelude arranged for trombone choir. It was never > published and probably the arrangement is about 25-30 years old. After > having it sent to me I realised that about 18 measures were cut from the > original, I assume because it presented challenges to both the arranger and > the players endurance, but I feel the piece suffers because of this. I > want to arrange and add those measures and would love to make it available, > but I don't know what the legal issues would be. Would it be considered a > new arrangement or would it be credited to two arrangers (not even sure if > the other fellow is still living). Considering that it had never been > published (or presumably copyrighted), I just don't know how all this would > work. I'm not trying to get credit for this, I'm trying to find a way to > make it better and available to players. What needs to be done? From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:38:13 -0800 From: "Les Benedict" To: Subject: Re: Spike Jones Trombonist Message-ID: <007601bf6d15$ca33dac0$5d9eb2d1@s8y2d3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [Spike Jones'] trombonist could produce a sound on any > given solo which can only be described as "extremely wet flatulence". > Does anybody out there know the secret on how to do it? > > Regards, Mike Terry There must have been more than one trombonist on Spike's band over the years, but the one whom I knew was Ed Kusby. That sound was described on Spike's records as the "Bird-O-Phone," and was very effectively used on a popular W.W.II tune, "The Fuhrer's Face." The technique was taught to me by Bob Kraft, formerly of the National Symphony, who referred to it as the (please pardon the expression) "Fart-O-Phone." Kraft told me that in order to produce this sound correctly, you must "do everything wrong." Among the chief "wrong" techniques to use, you must: (1) close the jaw/lips (move the teeth closer together; you can hear the air "hiss" as you do it), (2) position the tongue high in the mouth and close to the teeth (think "RRRR," but don't say "ARE;" say "RRRR," as in "GRRR," and (3) holding that position, stretch the lips, at least in the center of the aperture, to the outside (the dreaded "smile" embouchure) so the lips are stretched thin and flat -- i.e., RRREEEEEE. The corners don't come into play much, if any; they stay normally tight, but might pull to the outsides a little. It's easiest to learn on low notes, i.e., 2nd line Bb to G. You can experiment without the instrument by forming an embouchure, blowing air normally ("too"), then, as you're blowing, change the syllable to "RRR," then to "EEE." All that having been said, it IS a very funny sound and never seems to fail to liven up a situation, like a rehearsal. Just don't let it mess up your "normal" playing; it _does_ involve the antithesis of "correctness" in embouchure formation. Les Benedict lesbenedict@earthlink.net http://expage.com/page/goldrushband From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:59:23 -0600 From: "Walter K. Nadolny" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Brahms 4 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just been given the 1st trombone part to Brahms 4th. Symphony. I have never played it before, any hints. Looking over the part should I play it on a Bach 42 or 36...any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Walt Nadolny From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:30:59 PST From: "posaune rex" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Shires Message-ID: <20000202013059.58364.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi, I may be able to contribute something on the positive side about Mr. Shires' service... Yes, it did take him a hell of a long time to get me what I asked for. But after I wanted to try out other parts in place of what I had already asked for, he was overly and unnecessarily accomodating. I went to his shop multiple times (the best way to get in touch with him!) and was able to try out a lot of different equipment, and after ordering, was still able to exchange and try other parts through the mail with no extra charge. I think that it was undoubtedly worth the wait. Naturally, this does NOT excuse the blatant lie he offered when promising me 6-8 weeks on my horn, which almost turned into a year. What I would have preferred would be for him to tell me straight out that it could be up to a year. I would have waited. Either way, after that amount of time, lie or no lie, a fabulous instrument arrived for me. The most hopeful thing I see for him now, however, is that he has finally hired a secretary. FINALLY. That was probably one of the best moves he could have made. I was not impressed with the seeming-disorganization I was met with when visiting his shop. It seems as though he is trying to reform his habits, which looks optomistic. Either way, I am very glad I took the time to go out to his shop, and I have a great horn as a result. From going to the factory, it really seems like he cares about making the horn best for the player. One must also keep in mind that he is fairly new at this (having a business), and as someone mentioned, no he is not a businessman - he is a craftsman. He makes trombones, that's all. There's only a few people working for him, and the horns are in great demand. If he hires more workers, the quality will go down - ah, the neverending spiral. The only solution: raise prices of his horns!!! Personally, I prefer the status quo. mike clayville Eastman School of Music http://mail.rochester.edu/~sw002g ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:32:55 -0800 From: "Wayne" To: Subject: RE: Spike Jones Trombonist Message-ID: <000701bf6d36$9358dfc0$326c4e0c@homebase> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard Stuart Dempster's recording of Erickson's " General Speech"? It's a phonetic recreation of General McArthur's speech to the cadet's at West Point. It utilizes many vocal-trombone techniques including the vowel manipulation that is the current topic. A good way to develop this technique is to cycle through the vowel sounds while holding say a low Bb. AY EE AH OH OOH One must really exaggerate the vowel sounds in order for them to be portrayed properly. This technique can prove useful in finding the center of any given pitch by stretching the note up then down then centering on the pitch. It is also good for helping to develop expressiveness through different tonal colors. A note on double-pedal Bb: Why not? 2nd position and it barks like a big dog. If someone hadn't started messing around in the pedal register we'd all be stuck in the bass clef (at least those of us that require dots). The same can be said of the extreme high register. Later, Wayne Coniglio www.jazzrabbit.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu] On Behalf Of John Capon Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 1:55 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Spike Jones Trombonist > >Again, I apologize, but his trombonist could produce a sound on any >given solo which can only be described as "extremely wet flatulence". >Does anybody out there know the secret on how to do it? > >Regards, Mike Terry Mike, When I saw Spike he was playing at the Cave Theatre Restaurant in Vancouver in the '60s. The trombonist was Carl Fontana!!! Ever heard of him. The "extremely wet flatulence" is produce by raising the tongue until it almost touches the roof of the mouth and playing in the low register. One has to experiment a bit. Carl was an expert at a whole range of stuff. But it is the tongue raising that is the key. Try it, you'll hate it!! Laurie Bauer, a Toronto trombonist, is my favourite at this technique. One can often hear him do it for a warm up. Anyway, the sound you are interested is what we called the "Golden Tone". I believe the sound was given its name by Ralph Sauer when he was teaching at the University of Toronto. If a student came to a lesson without adequate preparation he or she was taught how to produce the "Golden Tone" (or that is the story I heard, you can ask some of Ralph's Toronto students to clarify) John From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:56:53 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: 8guion@jmls.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Cases Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000201195653.00939a70@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 03:42 PM 2/1/00 -0600, Guion, David wrote: >The case for my 88-H has gotten so banged up that I think it's time to get >another one. I called one nearby music store and was quoted a price of >$192.50 plus tax. That price includes shipping. It is a UMI case and is >specifically for an 88-H with closed wrap, which is what I have. The price >represents a 30% discount off the catalog price. > >Is this a good price, or can I do better with something else? You can get a LOT lower price with a ProTec. Whether it fits your horn the way you want or not is up to you. Personally, I'd have no problems with one. Probably $150 or less... Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:22 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:45:13 -0500 From: Randy Campora To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Terry Cravens' Email? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000201224428.009a17e0@mail.telephonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Does anyone out there have an email address for Terry Cravens at UCLA, or a phone number? Thanks, -Randy Campora ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra Peabody Conservatory of Music campora@peabody.jhu.edu 410-461-1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:43:06 EST From: B78TBone@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Shires Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_a2.2a9f15.25c90fda_boundary" To everyone out there who thinks they are having a bad time of it with Shires be glad you do not play bassoon. My wife plays bassoon and as a result I am rather familiar with the problems of obtaining a Heckle bassoon which is considered the best instrument available and it makes the problems you are having with Shires pale in comparison. First of all there is the price which is now somewhere near $30,000. Next consider that you must begin paying for this instrument before it is built and you must complete payments before delivery of an instrument you cannot tryout. Although they are the best, since they are made of wood, each one varies in its playing characteristics and you must adjust to your new instrument. AND YOU WILL WAIT 3 YEARS BEFORE DELIVERY!! Now if you consider the Shires trombone to be the best, which I do, we as trombonists aren't doing so bad. I know Steve and I know he is doing his very best so if you want an instrument of superior quality and virtually handmade be a little patient. Jim Biddlecome NY City Opera Return-path: B78TBone@aol.com From: B78TBone@aol.com Full-name: B78TBone Message-ID: <2d.aee0e5.25c83c9e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:41:50 EST Subject: Shires To: listserv@mizzou.missouri.edu CC: B78TBone@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 45 To everyone out there who thinks they are having a bad time of it with Shires be glad you do not play bassoon. My wife plays bassoon and as a result I am rather familiar with the problems of obtaining a Heckle bassoon which is considered the best instrument available and it makes the problems you are having with Shires pale in comparison. First of all there is the price which is now somewhere near $30,000. Next consider that you must begin paying for this instrument before it is built and you must complete payments before delivery of an instrument you cannot tryout. Although they are the best, since they are made of wood, each one varies in its playing characteristics and you must adjust to your new instrument. AND YOU WILL WAIT 3 YEARS BEFORE DELIVERY!! Now if you consider the Shires trombone to be the best, which I do, we as trombonists aren't doing so bad. I know Steve and I know he is doing his very best so if you want an instrument of superior quality and virtually handmade be a little patient. Jim Biddlecome NY City Opera From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:52:41 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Shires Message-ID: <7a.10fe771.25c91219@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << the problems of obtaining a Heckle bassoon which is considered the best instrument available and it makes the problems you are having with Shires pale in comparison. First of all there is the price which is now somewhere near $30,000. Next consider that you must begin paying for this instrument before it is built and you must complete payments before delivery of an instrument you cannot tryout.AND YOU WILL WAIT 3 YEARS BEFORE DELIVERY!! >> Let's not forget harps! Lyon and Healy is considered a serious maker, three year wait, prices up to $70,000 plus! Let's cut Steve Shires a little slack; after all, can we blame him for being successful? Long waits are part of the "cost" of getting something worth having. Matt From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:25:06 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: posaune_rex@hotmail.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Shires Message-ID: <5b.17222ce.25c919b2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/1/00 8:34:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, posaune_rex@hotmail.com writes: << no he is not a businessman - he is a craftsman. He makes trombones, that's all. >> Actually, he's a trombone player and a pretty good one at that! -wes From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 00:42:26 -0500 From: Randy Campora To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: USC vs UCLA Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000202004045.0099fa20@mail.telephonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed My apologies, I mistakenly put Terry Cravens at UCLA instead of at USC. Don't want to start any riots out there...my mistake. Please forgive the feeble East-coaster. Thanks to Matt Varho for the email address I was looking for. -Randy Campora ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra Peabody Conservatory of Music campora@peabody.jhu.edu 410-461-1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 01:03:35 -0500 From: Randy Campora To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Chicago/NY Phil Concerts on Web Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000202005028.0098f4a0@mail.telephonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just an FYI: WFMT in Chicago has CSO concerts on Sundays at 1PM, and New York Phil concerts on certain Thursdays at 7pm September through August. Go to http://www.wfmt.com and click on the Yahoo!Broadcast button to get to the page with the feed. Real Audio G2 player quality is better than previous versions, still not great, but if you are chained to your computer finishing off that research paper you may as well hear a good concert over the web. If you download the Real Audio G2 player, the drop down list of Classical Stations lists WFMT there, you don't have to go the website. G2 also plays mp3 files. Also on the dropdown menu is KING FM in Seattle, which carries some Seattle Sym. broadcasts at varying times, http://www.king.org. Anybody know of any other orchestra broadcasts available over the net? WFMT carries the MET on Saturdays, but it is blacked-out on the web. -Randy Campora ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Randy Campora, Bass Trombonist Baltimore Symphony Orchestra Peabody Conservatory of Music campora@peabody.jhu.edu 410-461-1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:14:46 -0800 From: Peter Ellefson To: Trombone List Subject: Shires recommendation Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am one of the list members who has written praises about the trombones made by Steve Shires. While I am sympathetic to the recent frustrations that have been expressed, I still have nothing but raves about the instruments. When one is in the middle of trying to get a terrific horn, things can become exasperating. Maybe Steve should just quote a 3 year wait. It doesn't seem to hurt Heckel bassoon sales. My advice---order it and FORGET about it. It will get there when it gets there and will be a pleasant surprise. Again, I will acknowledge that perspective is everything and waiting for something to get done can be a very frustrating experience. To clarify my previous praises---I have only written how wonderful the horns are. I never promised they would be delivered on time, only that they will be worth the wait. If anyone has reservations about ordering a Shires, I would recommend you ask yourself these questions: "Is owning a wonderfully crafted trombone worth a lengthy wait?"; "Do I have the patience to withstand some inconvenience and unmet delivery dates to own such an instrument?" If you answer no, then buy another brand. If the answer is yes, then buy a Shires. My impression is that Steve ultimately wants each of his customers to be satisfied. I have yet to hear of anyone who has not been completely thrilled with their horn, once everything has been taken care of. They may be out there but all I hear are raves. Be patient, take a deep breath and know you are getting a trombone that will become an extension of yourself. Peter Ellefson sea2bone@earthlink.net From ???@??? Wed Feb 02 07:54:23 2000 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 06:58:50 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Cases Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >At 03:42 PM 2/1/00 -0600, Guion, David wrote: > >The case for my 88-H has gotten so banged up that I think it's time to get > >another one. I called one nearby music store and was quoted a price of > >$192.50 plus tax. That price includes shipping. It is a UMI case and is > >specifically for an 88-H with closed wrap, which is what I have. The price > >represents a 30% discount off the catalog price. > > > >Is this a good price, or can I do better with something else? I happened to stop by Osmun Music yesterday (http://www.osmun.com) and saw a prototype of a new trombone case by Marcus Bona, a Brazilian maker of cases and mutes. It seems to be the best of both worlds - a hard case which is very light and a gig bag which protects extremely well. It is not in production yet (the prototype I saw was the only one made so far), and apparently the price has not been set, but as one who's never used gig bags and finds most "replacement cases" to be poorly made, I'll be picking up one of these new Bona cases as soon as they're available. BTW, they are universal - they will fit anything from a bass trombone to a 2B due to a very ingenious design. I'm sure when they're available you'll be able to see photos on the Osmun web site. But I think this could be "the" case we've been waiting for - compact, sturdy, practical (did I mention it has backpack straps, too) and well built. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * **********************************************