TROMBONE-L Digest 1581 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Lists by BUNTING N W Dr 2) Re: Blue Bells by 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) 3) Elliott shank by daboneman 4) Re: Elliott shank by "Jeffrey Diehl" 5) Re: Elliott shank by Chris Waage 6) Re: Strange gigs by Chris Waage 7) Horn stolen! Student needs used 42B by RCFDad@aol.com 8) RE: Problems - scales by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 9) The Time you need by "=?utf-7?Q?Hugo_Garc+AO0-a_Sampedro?=" 10) Mic Query for UK listers by Mike Coyle 11) RE: Problems - scales by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 12) RE: Problems - scales by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 13) Re: Lists by "DANIEL COOPER" 14) RE: Problems - scales by "DANIEL COOPER" 15) temperament (was Problems - scales) by Mike Coyle 16) RE: Problems - scales by Mike Coyle 17) RE: Problems - scales by "DANIEL COOPER" 18) Re: Problems - scales by MBennetts@aol.com 19) RE: Problems - scales by Chris Waage 20) tonal centers - one more point by Mike Coyle 21) Quick Joke... by Theman5207@aol.com 22) Re: Quick Joke..and another. by Mike Coyle 23) Re: Problems - scales by "David Carter" 24) scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) by Larry & Carol Bronisz 25) Re: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) by Chris Waage 26) Playing "Wierdly" by "Berggren, Erik" 27) REVISED! Re: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) by Chris Waage 28) RE: Playing "Wierdly" by BrianB@PR-CN.COM 29) audience perceptions, pt. 67 by "Christopher Smith" 30) An apology... by Douglas Yeo 31) Re: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) by "David Carter" 32) Brahms and Trombones by Douglas Yeo 33) Gavin Bryars by "Thomas Smee" 34) Re: Playing "Wierdly" by daboneman 35) Re: Playing "Wierdly" by "Daniel Pliskin" 36) Arctic Whale? by Trmbman@aol.com 37) Re: Arctic Whale? by JennWhaa@aol.com 38) Re: Playing "Wierdly" by Earl Needham 39) Illogical high-notes by FOpal@aol.com 40) Wayne Dyess? by Earl Needham 41) Fw: What do you sugest? by cwales@cavemen.net (Carla Wales) 42) Fink Legato Studies by Jim Tempest 43) Re: Quick Joke..and another. by "Dynamic Music Publications" 44) Re: Fink Legato Studies by Beth Lewis 45) RE: Mic Query for UK listers by BUNTING N W Dr 46) Question by Jim Robins From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:03 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:09:34 -0000 From: BUNTING N W Dr To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: Lists Message-ID: <17FD488B2E65D311B4EE009027AA4C3BB29C@PCGSERV1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: BUNTING N W Dr [mailto:BUNTING_NW@gp-c83057.nhs.uk] > Sent: 27 January 2000 09:22 > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: RE: Lists > > > there is a clarinet list, > Not sure what happened there; should have read: ...but I dont understand why anyone would want to subscribe to anything other than Trombone-! :-) note: this may be out of date klarinet Note the spelling- this is important! To join, send the one line: subscribe klarinet firstname lastname to listserv@vccscent.bitnet List owner: Jim Fay (jim.fay@permanet.org) Discussion of clarinets. NB: There is also a commercial news service called Clarinet which is NOT about the instrument. > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Henrique Seixas [mailto:seixas@whouse.com.br] > Sent: 27 January 2000 04:32 > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Lists > > > Dear Listers: > Ê > A friend of mine asked if is there any "clarinet-list"? > Could you give me its direction? > I thank you in advance. > Antonio Henrique Seixas > Bass Trombone - Brazilian Symphony OrchestraÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ > ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ > seixas@whouse.com.br > Ê > > From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:20:44 GMT From: 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) To: j.grisham@pmail.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Blue Bells Message-ID: <3890379c.9825922@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:39:23 -0600, you wrote: >Josh, > >Play it as fast as you can while still maintaining the clearest, most >articulate and musical playing possible. It is a show piece - a real romp Definately. >>OK, after all them Texan ebonics, it's time to get to the point of the >>message. >> >>For my competition solo this year, I have decided to play Blue Bells of >>Scotland. However, I have a quick question about it. How fast does the >>last Vivace section really need to be? I have a solo reference CD of a guy >>playing it at quarter = 115. However, last night I got to hear an original >>recording of Pryor playing the piece along with the Sousa band, and he was >>going MUCH faster than 115 (for those who have heard it, you know what I'm Pryor is slow compared to the Alain Trudel ITA recording - try quarter note =196 - cleanly and every note is there. Simon From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:01:25 -0600 From: daboneman To: Trombones and related issues forum Subject: Elliott shank Message-ID: <389041A5.6E63E248@mciworld.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Does anyone have a Doug Elliott H8 or H9 shank that they would like to part with? I have an H9C (for a Conn), but I need just the standard size. If not could someone please forward Doug Elliott's address and/or phone number... I've misplaced my catalogue. Thanks, Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:08:11 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Diehl" To: , Subject: Re: Elliott shank Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello! Doug Elliott's address is 13619 Layhill Road Silver Spring, MD 20906 ands his telephone number is 301-871-3535 Hope this helps! Jeff Diehl From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:25:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Elliott shank Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Doug is currently swamped - he has a major trade show this weekend, and he'll be pretty hard to catch. Chris >Hello! > >Doug Elliott's address is > 13619 Layhill Road > Silver Spring, MD 20906 > >ands his telephone number is > 301-871-3535 > >Hope this helps! > >Jeff Diehl _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:29:08 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Strange gigs Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Offer free booze, and musicians will beat down your door. The most dangerous place in the world is between Adrian Drover and his Guinness..... ;-) Chris >The article about the high school band playing 76 tb for hubbies >76th reminded me of one of the stranger gigs I've had. > >----- > >Maybe it is the wine, but years ago W. Sudmeier rounded up 76 >trombones to play as a surprise for the winery owner's 76th >birthday. This guy always wanted to conduct 76 trombones playing >76 Trombones. Like I said, maybe it's the wine. > >I don't know how he did it, but he got all 76 tbones into the winery >on a tuesday day I believe. > >The guys wife brought him in and surprise!! 76 trombones can make >a big sound. > >It paid ok for 15 mins of playing, but it drove home the idea that >perhaps some people have too much money. Not that there is anything >wrong with that! > >Someone else on the list must have been there.. > >----- > >This might make an interesting thread... strange gigs. > >Chris L _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:36:53 EST From: RCFDad@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Horn stolen! Student needs used 42B Message-ID: <17.10610a6.25c1c015@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks A former student of mine, now a college freshman, had her Bach 42B (along with all her books and clothes) stolen from her car while she spent the night at a motel on the way back to college. After the $1500 worth of deductibles (ain't insurance grand?) she can't afford a new horn. Does anyone know of a good, (doesn't have to look good, just play well) used, 42B or comparable horn for sale anywhere? Ray Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra rcfdad@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:02:59 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082EE9@LEE2> Someone commented I might find the Cb scale easier to play than B nat. This is true but not the best example. The Gb scale is simple and the F# stinking impossible!!! On the other hand, the Bbb is much harder than the A nat. And yes, I have played parts marked that way, dunno why though. While I play all the scales out of a sense of masochism, it is really a quaint historical exercise. Since the adoption of equal temperament (what, 1854? hello!) there really is no reason to write in different keys. The myth that different key signatures have a different "feeling" was long ago dispelled, at least at better music schools. Sure it was true back when the half steps were different sizes, but no more. Any decent writer today will write in keys that lie well for the instrument or voice, and get the desired effect out of good scoring, not counting on some magical assistance from the choice of key. And yes, careful listeners will tune some intervals into just, but that is a vertical temperament use and not a horizontal, does not affect my position on the overall key. yours, just shoveled 18 inches of snow out of my (looonnnggg) driveway, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Richardson, Tim > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 12:35 PM > To: JennWhaa@aol.com; trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Subject: RE: Problems > > First thing is to spend some money on a gadget. > > I bought a cheap digital metronome for about $15 US. Music stores have a > wide selection with amazing colors, I had to leave my wife at home with > Adrian's. The advantage over the big wood one is it goes up in smaller > increments. I can set it ahead one beat at a time. For the month of > January I am doing major scales each day, playing quarter, eighth, > triplet, > then sixteenth, then the next day I bump the metronome up just one beat > per > minute. Smaller jumps let you sneak up on it. This is some of that grunt > work on basics I wish I'd done in high school or college, got to catch up > now. I dunno who invented the A and B natural scales though, wish I could > go up a tenth beat (0.1)a day for those suckers. Wish I could find that > guy > and cancel his union membership. > > Second thing is to practice the correct tonguing technique. I'm not an > expert on that, but when I get myself confused I think about Remington's > "how are you today?" The front of the tongue moves up and down, NOT back > and forth like a snake's (it was almost harder to teach myself that wrong > than to break the habit, but not quite. there's one piece of info that > would have saved me years of frustration). > > Third thing is to cheat. If you can't single tongue as quickly as you > need, > then you have to switch to double tonguing at a slower speed than the next > person. You also probably need doodle tonguing because your legato > tonguing will also be slower. Probably the work on both doodle and double > tonguing will improve your single tongue somewhat. I personally think it > sounds better to double tongue cleanly than to single tongue and sound > strained. > hope this helps, > yours, > tim richardson > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: JennWhaa@aol.com [SMTP:JennWhaa@aol.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 12:13 PM > > To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > > Subject: Problems > > > > > > Ever since last semester, I have been consistently working on my single > > tonguing with Kopprasch etudes and I have not been able to break through > a > > plateau - quarter = 88, occasionally 92. I was talking about it to > > another trombonist when they suggested that it may have something to do > > with the position of my tongue. I seem to tongue with the syllable "th" > > on the edge of my front teeth. My tongue never seems to get behind my > > teeth. What effect might that have on my tonguing? > > > > From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:22:50 -0300 From: "=?utf-7?Q?Hugo_Garc+AO0-a_Sampedro?=" To: "Trombone-list" Subject: The Time you need Message-ID: <01bf68e2$c17178c0$LocalHost@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Speaking (reading) about +ACI-standards+ACI-, +ACI-Blue Bells...+ACI-, +ACI-Lindberg opinions+ACI-, etc. It comes to my mind a question in which, from time to time, I think about (and struggle with+ACEAIQ-): What we might say that is the +ACI-average+ACI- or +ACI-desirable+ACI- working time you need to learn a certain piece, at the point you can perform it +ACI-safety+ACI- in a recital, audition, etc.? (I'm not speaking about +ACI-the best performance+ACI-, or +ACI-your best performance+ACI-, simply a good or acceptable performance) I know that this is a very +ACI-relative+ACI- issue, and that it will obviously depends on many variables as the piece, skills, etc. But if we narrow the scope and speak about concrete pieces, for instance the Ewasen Sonata, the Casterede Sonatine, the David C. (or the examples you like), perhaps we can find something. Also, in this +ACI-context+ACI- I have another question: How do you work on your repertory? You work in more than one piece at the same time (two, three, ten...), or you work one by one till you feel that is OK? I will appreciate any kind of feedback+ACE- Cordially -Hugo From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:24:42 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Mic Query for UK listers Message-ID: <200001271625.KAA28194@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I feel like a headline writer for a tabloid when I have to find ways to compress a subject like this :) Hello folks, I got a letter from the Director of Oktava Audio (Russian manufacturers of fantastic mics) saying that I could not buy direct from them, but could buy through a representative in the UK. That made me wonder if these mics are widely available in the UK. They are greatly reduced in price in the US due to the devaluation of the Ruble, but, from Oktava's web page it looks like they may be even further reduced for sale in the UK. If you are familiar with these mics and know where they sold in the UK, could you write to me. If you do not any specifics perhaps you could suggest some good music shops where I could begin my search. Thank you, Mike Coyle From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:26:04 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim Richardson wrote, > While I play all the scales out of a sense of masochism, it is really a > quaint historical exercise. Since the adoption of equal temperament > (what, > 1854? hello!) there really is no reason to write in different keys. The > myth that different key signatures have a different "feeling" was long ago > dispelled, at least at better music schools. Sure it was true back when > the > half steps were different sizes, but no more. Any decent writer today > will > write in keys that lie well for the instrument or voice, and get the > desired > effect out of good scoring, not counting on some magical assistance from > the > choice of key. And yes, careful listeners will tune some intervals into > just, but that is a vertical temperament use and not a horizontal, does > not > affect my position on the overall key. > There are a lot of factual mistakes here. I have heard some quibbling over whether Bach meant equal temperament when he published the Well Tempered Clavier, but it was certainly close enough. It was only after some kind of equal temperament was applied to keyboard instruments that it even became possible to write music in all keys. The association of particular keys with particular moods post-dates the adoption of temperament. That one key was associated with, say, passion, another with nobility and another with pastoral scenes had nothing to do with half steps of different sizes. (I'm not sure what it did have to do with. The idea is not so much discredited as out of fashion.) But if 1854 has nothing to do with the adoption of equal temperament, it does fall within a period when composers were experimenting with modulations to distantly related keys. The Grondahl concerto is essentially in f-minor, but get a load of the key signatures that pop up in the middle of the piece! And, of course, nowadays arrangers like to build excitement by repeating a chorus up a half step or whole step. So a piece that is written comfortably (for trombonists) in B-flat major might very well kick into B major before it ends. (Sigh). There's no substitute for leaning all the scales and arpeggios. We'll have to play in weird keys eventually, no matter what kind of music we play. > yours, > just shoveled 18 inches of snow out of my (looonnnggg) driveway, > tim richardson > That is *precisely* why I don't have a long driveway. This winter has been fairly dry here, but last year, I had to snow blow twice in one day, the day we got about two feet. (Isn't this the time of year when we used to hear smug comments about the weather in Australia?) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:05:49 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Tim Richardson wrote, > > > While I play all the scales out of a sense of masochism, it is really a > > quaint historical exercise. Since the adoption of equal temperament > > (what, > > 1854? hello!) there really is no reason to write in different keys. > Tell that to the vocalist that you are trying to accompany that "just absolutely can't sing that piece in Bb or Eb". >The myth that different key signatures have a different "feeling" was long ago > > dispelled, at least at better music schools. > Yeah, that's for sure. That's why most of the composers coming out of the "better music schools" are so excellent at composing music with absolutely NO feeling. I guess what you are saying may be true for some music. But from my limited experience in church music and Jazz, I don't know if one can ever be sure what key they will be playing in. A lot depends on the vocalists. Also, probably starting a new thread, I think that the current emphasis on scales is a positive thing. When I was younger (grade school through high school), everything that I played was either in Bb, Eb, or Ab. Consequently, those were the only scales that I really knew well. I only ran across C, D and G later while trying to play in church. My sons today are bringing home music in keys other than those traditionally for brass. They are also encouraged to practice ALL the scales. This is particularly true in the school Jazz bands where the scale is totally different than the good old major and minors my ears are used to. Some of the experiences that I have had in the past year make me wish that I had taken more time to practice all the scales like you do, even if it is masochism. Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:14:04 -0600 From: "DANIEL COOPER" To: , Subject: Re: Lists Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline I don't know if this helps, but you might check out the links page I have set up for my high school band, viewable at: http://www.geocities.com/wacbands/links.html If anyone would like to add any links for the "Instrument Sites" section please send some along to me! I have two trombone sites and one euphonium site. Maybe I'll look for some today during my study hall (which is where I am right now!) Until then though... Daniel Cooper Luke 18:42 From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:18:48 -0600 From: "DANIEL COOPER" To: <8guion@jmls.edu>, Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline >And, of course, nowadays arrangers like to build excitement by repeating a >chorus up a half step or whole step. So a piece that is written comfortably >(for trombonists) in B-flat major might very well kick into B major before >it ends. This is very true! I played an arrangement of "Night Train" a couple of years ago where after the trombones do the main melody for a while in Bb Major it kicks into B major! WHAT FUN!!! From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:18:52 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: temperament (was Problems - scales) Message-ID: <200001271719.LAA01104@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, the single greatest influence on the homogenization of tonal centers was the industrial revolution. At the time of the industrial revolution there was a great movement in the direction of highly mechanized design. Look at earlier brass and woodwind instruments - they are either un-valved tubes of brass, or wooden cylinders with holes drill in strategic places. When the Bšhm flute came on the scene (about 1830, the Germans were somewhat slower to take to the revolution than the English who can really be said to have begun their revolution circa 1760) it was a VASTLY different thing from the open-holed flute. Now, of course, the new key design was really said to be for the purposes of making the instrument more comfortable to play by those with the "average hand", never-the-less it's design was so highly mechanized that it is a veritable machine in comparison to its predecessors. The biggest, and perhaps most devastating, result of design change that made instruments capable of being handled more comfortably (or in the case of brass allowed the chromatic scale to be played) was that it also homogenized the pitch and tone color across the spectrum of the instrument. There was a time when, even in equal temperament (particularly in minor keys), wind instruments with simpler design were far less capable of playing "in tune" and had to do a lot of "lipping and rolling" to adjust pitch. In doing so a vastly different color was given to pitches and therefore different tonal centers had far more variety of color than they do now. These centers were carefully chosen by composer to acheive affects and moods. Probably the instrument which displayed the greatest color shifting was the open horn - those notes stopped by the hand to raise the pitch are from a completely different spectrum than the open notes. There are many reasons why music still continues to be written in different keys, not the least of which is to achieve different weight and color. The notion that everything could be written in C now and it would make no difference is silly. Regardless of the temperament used, the relative range of any given tonal center is going to greatly influence how it is perceived. I could go on and on, but most of you have already stopped reading this, so I'll stop :) In conclusion: go ahead and practice your scales and realize that you are indeed visiting a new universe with every new "mapping" or transposition, if you prefer. Play a Gb major scale starting on low Gb, then play a major scale a tri-tone higher (C) and tell me they sound the same? Why, one is forest green and the other is white as snow. Now move up to E - bright orange or maybe lemon yellow! If they sound the same to you, get a new job :) Yours in music, Mike Coyle At 10:26 AM 1/27/00 , you wrote: >Tim Richardson wrote, > >> While I play all the scales out of a sense of masochism, it is really a >> quaint historical exercise. Since the adoption of equal temperament >> (what, >> 1854? hello!) there really is no reason to write in different keys. The >> myth that different key signatures have a different "feeling" was long ago >> dispelled, at least at better music schools. Sure it was true back when >> the >> half steps were different sizes, but no more. Any decent writer today >> will >> write in keys that lie well for the instrument or voice, and get the >> desired >> effect out of good scoring, not counting on some magical assistance from >> the >> choice of key. And yes, careful listeners will tune some intervals into >> just, but that is a vertical temperament use and not a horizontal, does >> not >> affect my position on the overall key. >> >There are a lot of factual mistakes here. I have heard some quibbling over >whether Bach meant equal temperament when he published the Well Tempered >Clavier, but it was certainly close enough. It was only after some kind of >equal temperament was applied to keyboard instruments that it even became >possible to write music in all keys. The association of particular keys with >particular moods post-dates the adoption of temperament. That one key was >associated with, say, passion, another with nobility and another with >pastoral scenes had nothing to do with half steps of different sizes. (I'm >not sure what it did have to do with. The idea is not so much discredited as >out of fashion.) > >But if 1854 has nothing to do with the adoption of equal temperament, it >does fall within a period when composers were experimenting with modulations >to distantly related keys. The Grondahl concerto is essentially in f-minor, >but get a load of the key signatures that pop up in the middle of the piece! > >And, of course, nowadays arrangers like to build excitement by repeating a >chorus up a half step or whole step. So a piece that is written comfortably >(for trombonists) in B-flat major might very well kick into B major before >it ends. > >(Sigh). There's no substitute for leaning all the scales and arpeggios. >We'll have to play in weird keys eventually, no matter what kind of music we >play. > >> yours, >> just shoveled 18 inches of snow out of my (looonnnggg) driveway, >> tim richardson >> >That is *precisely* why I don't have a long driveway. This winter has been >fairly dry here, but last year, I had to snow blow twice in one day, the day >we got about two feet. (Isn't this the time of year when we used to hear >smug comments about the weather in Australia?) > >^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ >David Guion, Cataloger >John Marshall Law School >315 S. Plymouth Ct. >Chicago, IL 60604 >Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 > >"Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, >it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx > >^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:23:50 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: <200001271724.LAA01739@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >The myth that different key signatures have a different "feeling" >was long ago >> > dispelled, at least at better music schools. >> > Yeah, that's for sure. That's why most of the composers coming out >of the "better music schools" are so excellent at composing music with >absolutely NO feeling. > Amen Ken :) Don't know if you'd consider my school "better", but I am glad I graduated a long time ago when this myth had not yet been dispelled ;-) Coyle From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:21:50 -0600 From: "DANIEL COOPER" To: , Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Relating to problem scales, I have found it to be much to my advantage to learn all of my major scales, especially when auditioning for the Milwaukee Youth Symphony Orchestra, my private lesson teacher was doing the auditions that year, and gave me fair warning! I listened, and it made the sight reading much easier (E major as I recall [4 sharps for those of you who still need to learn them! :-{)} ] ). I'll admit I still need to work on them, but it's coming a lot easier now and it does tend to help me with sightreading. Daniel Cooper Luke 18:42 From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:31:23 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Problems - scales Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 01/27/00 11:07:19 AM Central Standard Time, kdowdy@oppd.com writes: > But from my > limited experience in church music and Jazz, I don't know if one can ever be > sure what key they will be playing in. You haven't even *begun* to seen sharps until you get the brass ensemble parts (early Sunday morning of course) for the piece the choir has been woodshedding for three months. Better hope you've at least touched a few of those scales recently! :-( Mike Bennett --------------- "All priests in my diocese are hereby urged to play the tombone since this instrument can make God's voice heard". 16th Century Bishop of Västerås, Sweden From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:13:02 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: Problems - scales Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Almost 12 years ago, Robert Holland told me that there were specific positions you should use for every scale, with the objective of keeping the 1/2 steps together. As I was young and foolish at the time (I'm older now ;-), I really didn't listen. As time went by, I started playing with this, and it started making sense - perhaps the speed of sound vs. speed of light argument? I heard, but the light didn't go on? I started working on scales, internalizing the positions which keep the 1/2 steps together, and was pleasently surprised with the results. Now, when I'm in some of the lesser-used keys, I just mentally lock into the positions which I use for the corresponding scale. Instead of worrying about the key, I am able listen and play music, relying on the internalized scale positions. Here's an example: Gb Major Scale, starting on the bottom of the bass clef staff: Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 Note: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb PS-Bob, some of it did sink in, even if it didn't seem like I was listening! ;-) fwiw, Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:31:10 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: tonal centers - one more point Message-ID: <200001271832.MAA08900@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One thing I neglected to mention. I was just at the piano and it occurred to me that one of the most simplistic reasons for writing different keys (tonal centers) has to do with the dynamic, relative movement of modulation. Modulating is not just a quick change with the goal of moving to another key (unless done by a hack who is trying to achieve something but fails to do so). It really is a musical affect akin to a shift in tectonic plates in the earth! When you make a modulation, yet use the same thematic material, you are either raising the pitch or lowering the pitch - either way you have achieved a great shift in weight and color. If you modulate at the time you also initiate new thematic material you have made a bold statement, a self-referential comment really, on the importance and significance of your movement and change. Now, even if all keys have the same feel (let's suspend disbelief), the movement to different keys will at very least move you to a different range. That is a huge change and one that can definitely be felt. Do this little exercise: Play the first two measures of Verdi's Nabucco Overture ( I selected something with trombones so I don't get kicked off the list :) play it in C major. Now say you want a darker sound so you play it down an octave. It is indeed darker but very muddy and messy. So, you decide, "hmmmmm, let me play it in Gb major and sees what happens" EUREKA!!!!!!!! Very dark (especially on brass) and still in a range that is high enough to be heard clearly. That in itself is a reason for choosing different tonal centers. Therefore, aside from the shifts in tonal center based on relativism, that is the relational proximity of tonal centers via modulation, one can chose a key for a particular reason right from the outset, and never leave it, and it will still be a reasoned decision and not just an arbitrary selection for the sake of exercise. Different instruments sound very different in their various registers. How do you get them into certain registers? Select the appropriate tonal center!!!! Mike From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:49:33 EST From: Theman5207@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Quick Joke... Message-ID: <6e.76c26d.25c1ed3d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Descriptions of typical members of a band: Director Leaps tall buildings in a single bound. Is more powerful than a locomotive. Is faster than a speeding bullet. Walks on water. Gives policy to God. Clarinet Players Leaps short buildings in a single bound. Is more powerful than a switch engine. Is just as fast a speeding bullet. Walks on water if sea is calm. Talks with God. Oboe and Bassoon Players Leaps short buildings with a running start and favorable winds. Is almost as powerful as a switch engine. Is almost as fast as a speeding bullet. Walks on water in an indoor swimming pool. Talks with God is special request is approved. Flute Players Barely clears a quonset hut. Loses tug-of-war with locomotive. Can fire a speeding bullet. Swims well. Is occasionally addressed by God. Saxophone Players Makes marks high on wall when trying to clear short buildings. Is run over by locomotive. Can sometimes handle a gun without inflicting self-injury. Dog-paddles. Talks to animals. Trumpet Players and Percussionist Runs into buildings. Recognizes locomotives two times out of three. Is not issued ammunition. Can stay afloat with a life jacket. Talks to walls, argues with self. Horn and Tuba Players Falls over doorstep when trying to enter building. Says "Look at choo-choo." Wets self with water pistol. Plays in puddles. Loses argument with self. Trombone Players Lifts buildings and wlaks under them. Kicks locomotives off the tracks. Catches speeding bullets with teeth and eats them. Freeze water with a single glance. Is God. From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:06:26 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Quick Joke..and another. Message-ID: <200001271907.NAA12081@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I love it :) I'll paraphrase an oft told joke substituting a name we all know so as to make it appropriate for trombone-l: Joe Alessi dies and goes to heaven. A student trombonist also dies and goes to heaven. Upon arrival the student is given a tour by St. Peter. As they near an area where several people sitting about, the student exclaims, "WOW! Look over there, it's Joe Alessi!" St. Peter looks over and without excitement turns back to the student and says, "Nah, that's God, he just THINKS he's Joe Alessi!" :) Mike PS - Joe is quite alive and well At 12:49 PM 1/27/00 , you wrote: >Descriptions of typical members of a band: > >Director >Leaps tall buildings in a single bound. >Is more powerful than a locomotive. >Is faster than a speeding bullet. >Walks on water. >Gives policy to God. > >Clarinet Players >Leaps short buildings in a single bound. >Is more powerful than a switch engine. >Is just as fast a speeding bullet. >Walks on water if sea is calm. >Talks with God. > >Oboe and Bassoon Players >Leaps short buildings with a running start and favorable winds. >Is almost as powerful as a switch engine. >Is almost as fast as a speeding bullet. >Walks on water in an indoor swimming pool. >Talks with God is special request is approved. > >Flute Players >Barely clears a quonset hut. >Loses tug-of-war with locomotive. >Can fire a speeding bullet. >Swims well. >Is occasionally addressed by God. > >Saxophone Players >Makes marks high on wall when trying to clear short buildings. >Is run over by locomotive. >Can sometimes handle a gun without inflicting self-injury. >Dog-paddles. >Talks to animals. > >Trumpet Players and Percussionist >Runs into buildings. >Recognizes locomotives two times out of three. >Is not issued ammunition. >Can stay afloat with a life jacket. >Talks to walls, argues with self. > >Horn and Tuba Players >Falls over doorstep when trying to enter building. >Says "Look at choo-choo." >Wets self with water pistol. >Plays in puddles. >Loses argument with self. > >Trombone Players >Lifts buildings and wlaks under them. >Kicks locomotives off the tracks. >Catches speeding bullets with teeth and eats them. >Freeze water with a single glance. >Is God. > From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:15:10 -0600 From: "David Carter" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Problems - scales Message-ID: <000201bf68fc$2a9c5900$120298d8@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, This is more or less the system I was taught by Al Lube when I studied with him in the early '70s. It seemed logical to me, but I've been suprised that so few players use it. DC ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Waage To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:13 PM Subject: RE: Problems - scales > Almost 12 years ago, Robert Holland told me that there were specific > positions you should use for every scale, with the objective of keeping the > 1/2 steps together. As I was young and foolish at the time (I'm older now > ;-), I really didn't listen. > > As time went by, I started playing with this, and it started making sense - > perhaps the speed of sound vs. speed of light argument? I heard, but the > light didn't go on? I started working on scales, internalizing the > positions which keep the 1/2 steps together, and was pleasently surprised > with the results. > > Now, when I'm in some of the lesser-used keys, I just mentally lock into > the positions which I use for the corresponding scale. Instead of worrying > about the key, I am able listen and play music, relying on the internalized > scale positions. > > Here's an example: > > Gb Major Scale, starting on the bottom of the bass clef staff: > Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 > Note: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb > > PS-Bob, some of it did sink in, even if it didn't seem like I was > listening! ;-) > > fwiw, > > Chris > _____________________________________________ > Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at > http://www.waageworks.com > _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:51:17 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) Message-ID: <4.1.20000127124844.00c1eb30@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could you (y'awl) elaborate on this method in general? - Larry At 01:15 PM 1/27/00 -0600, David Carter wrote: >Chris, >This is more or less the system I was taught by Al Lube when I studied with >him in the early '70s. It seemed logical to me, but I've been suprised that >so few players use it. > >DC >----- Original Message ----- >From: Chris Waage >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:13 PM >Subject: RE: Problems - scales > > >> Almost 12 years ago, Robert Holland told me that there were specific >> positions you should use for every scale, with the objective of keeping >the >> 1/2 steps together. As I was young and foolish at the time (I'm older now >> ;-), I really didn't listen. >> >> As time went by, I started playing with this, and it started making >sense - >> perhaps the speed of sound vs. speed of light argument? I heard, but the >> light didn't go on? I started working on scales, internalizing the >> positions which keep the 1/2 steps together, and was pleasently surprised >> with the results. >> >> Now, when I'm in some of the lesser-used keys, I just mentally lock into >> the positions which I use for the corresponding scale. Instead of >worrying >> about the key, I am able listen and play music, relying on the >internalized >> scale positions. >> >> Here's an example: >> >> Gb Major Scale, starting on the bottom of the bass clef staff: >> Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 >> Note: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:36:36 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The key is to keep the half steps together by use of alternate positions. C Major: Note: C D E - F G A B - C D E - F G A B - C Position: 6 4 2 1 4 2 4 3 1 2 1 #2 2 2 1 F Major: Note: F G A - Bb C D E - F G A - Bb C D E - F Position: 6 4 2 1 6 7 8 1 4 2 1 3 1 2 1 Bb Major: Note: Bb C D - Eb F G A - Bb C D - Eb F G A - Bb Position: 1 6 4 3 1 4 2 1 3 4 3 1 #2 2 1 Eb Major: Note: Eb F G - Ab Bb C D - Eb F G - Ab Bb C D - Eb Position: T3 6 4 3 1 6 4 3 1 4 3 1 3 4 3 Ab Major: Note: Ab Bb C - Db Eb F G - Ab Bb C - Db Eb F G - Ab Position: 3 1 6 5 3 1 4 3 1 3 2 3 1 4 3 (T3) Db Major: Note: Db Eb F - Gb Ab Bb C - Db Eb F - Gb Ab Bb C - Db Position: T5 T3 6 5 3 1 6 5 3 6 5 3 1 3 2 Gb Major: Note: Gb Ab Bb - Cb Db Eb F - Gb Ab Bb - Cb Db Eb F - Gb Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 3 5 6 2 3 b3 3 G Major: Note: G A B - C D E F# - G A B - C D E F# - G Position: 4 2 7 6 4 2 5 4 2 4 3 1 2 #3 #2 (T2-T1) D Major: Note: D E F# - G A B C# - D E F# - G A B C# - D Position: 4 2 5 4 2 4 2 1 2 #3 #2 2 2 2 1 A Major: Note: A B C# - D E F# G# - A B C# - D E F# G# - A Position: 2 7 5 4 2 5 3 2 4 2 1 2 #3 3 2 E Major: Note: E F# G# - A B C# D# - E F# G# - A B C# D# - E Position: 7 5 3 2 7 5 3 2 5 3 2 4 2 3 2 B Major: Note: B C# D# - E F# G# A# - B C# D# - E F# G# A# - B Position: 7 5 3 2 5 3 5 4 2 3 2 #3 3 3 2 F# Major: Note: F# G# A# - B C# D# E# - F# G# A# - B C# D# E# - F# Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 3 5 6 2 3 b3 3 Chris >Could you (y'awl) elaborate on this method in general? >- Larry > >At 01:15 PM 1/27/00 -0600, David Carter wrote: >>Chris, >>This is more or less the system I was taught by Al Lube when I studied with >>him in the early '70s. It seemed logical to me, but I've been suprised that >>so few players use it. >> >>DC >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Chris Waage >>To: Trombones and related issues forum. >>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:13 PM >>Subject: RE: Problems - scales >> >> >>> Almost 12 years ago, Robert Holland told me that there were specific >>> positions you should use for every scale, with the objective of keeping >>the >>> 1/2 steps together. As I was young and foolish at the time (I'm older now >>> ;-), I really didn't listen. >>> >>> As time went by, I started playing with this, and it started making >>sense - >>> perhaps the speed of sound vs. speed of light argument? I heard, but the >>> light didn't go on? I started working on scales, internalizing the >>> positions which keep the 1/2 steps together, and was pleasently surprised >>> with the results. >>> >>> Now, when I'm in some of the lesser-used keys, I just mentally lock into >>> the positions which I use for the corresponding scale. Instead of >>worrying >>> about the key, I am able listen and play music, relying on the >>internalized >>> scale positions. >>> >>> Here's an example: >>> >>> Gb Major Scale, starting on the bottom of the bass clef staff: >>> Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 >>> Note: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:37:36 -0600 From: "Berggren, Erik" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: Playing "Wierdly" Message-ID: <69B69101614FD3119D9F00104B9883E70E8DC8@bkxchusr01.bk.state.ks.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm a new subscriber to this list, so please be patient! In a musical score I am to play, a segment entitled "Devil Music" says to "play weirdly". Can you comrades give me an idea as to the style that should be used to play this? It's a segment from "Damn Yankees". Thanks! From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:18:35 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: REVISED! Re: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few typos in the first attempt.....I type the way I live. Fast, but with lots of mistakes... ;-) The key is to keep the half steps together by use of alternate positions. C Major: Note: C D E - F G A B - C D E - F G A B - C Position: 6 4 2 1 4 2 4 3 1 2 1 #2 2 2 1 F Major: Note: F G A - Bb C D E - F G A - Bb C D E - F Position: 6 4 2 1 6 7 2 1 4 2 1 3 1 2 1 Bb Major: Note: Bb C D - Eb F G A - Bb C D - Eb F G A - Bb Position: 1 6 4 3 1 4 2 1 3 4 3 1 #2 2 1 Eb Major: Note: Eb F G - Ab Bb C D - Eb F G - Ab Bb C D - Eb Position: T3 6 4 3 1 6 4 3 1 4 3 1 3 4 3 Ab Major: Note: Ab Bb C - Db Eb F G - Ab Bb C - Db Eb F G - Ab Position: 3 1 6 5 3 1 4 3 1 3 2 3 1 4 3 (T3) Db Major: Note: Db Eb F - Gb Ab Bb C - Db Eb F - Gb Ab Bb C - Db Position: T5 T3 6 5 3 1 6 5 3 6 5 3 1 3 2 Gb Major: Note: Gb Ab Bb - Cb Db Eb F - Gb Ab Bb - Cb Db Eb F - Gb Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 3 5 4 2 3 b3 3 G Major: Note: G A B - C D E F# - G A B - C D E F# - G Position: 4 2 7 6 4 2 5 4 2 4 3 1 2 #3 #2 (T2-T1) D Major: Note: D E F# - G A B C# - D E F# - G A B C# - D Position: 4 2 5 4 2 4 2 1 2 #3 #2 2 2 2 1 A Major: Note: A B C# - D E F# G# - A B C# - D E F# G# - A Position: 2 7 5 4 2 5 3 2 4 2 1 2 #3 3 2 E Major: Note: E F# G# - A B C# D# - E F# G# - A B C# D# - E Position: 7 5 3 2 7 5 3 2 5 3 2 4 2 3 2 B Major: Note: B C# D# - E F# G# A# - B C# D# - E F# G# A# - B Position: 7 5 3 2 5 3 5 4 2 3 2 #3 3 3 2 F# Major: Note: F# G# A# - B C# D# E# - F# G# A# - B C# D# E# - F# Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 3 5 4 2 3 b3 3 Chris >Could you (y'awl) elaborate on this method in general? >- Larry > >At 01:15 PM 1/27/00 -0600, David Carter wrote: >>Chris, >>This is more or less the system I was taught by Al Lube when I studied with >>him in the early '70s. It seemed logical to me, but I've been suprised that >>so few players use it. >> >>DC >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Chris Waage >>To: Trombones and related issues forum. >>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:13 PM >>Subject: RE: Problems - scales >> >> >>> Almost 12 years ago, Robert Holland told me that there were specific >>> positions you should use for every scale, with the objective of keeping >>the >>> 1/2 steps together. As I was young and foolish at the time (I'm older now >>> ;-), I really didn't listen. >>> >>> As time went by, I started playing with this, and it started making >>sense - >>> perhaps the speed of sound vs. speed of light argument? I heard, but the >>> light didn't go on? I started working on scales, internalizing the >>> positions which keep the 1/2 steps together, and was pleasently surprised >>> with the results. >>> >>> Now, when I'm in some of the lesser-used keys, I just mentally lock into >>> the positions which I use for the corresponding scale. Instead of >>worrying >>> about the key, I am able listen and play music, relying on the >>internalized >>> scale positions. >>> >>> Here's an example: >>> >>> Gb Major Scale, starting on the bottom of the bass clef staff: >>> Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 >>> Note: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:43:30 -0500 From: BrianB@PR-CN.COM To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Playing "Wierdly" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > "play weirdly". Can you comrades give me an idea as to the style that > should be used to play this? "Play weirdly"? This ranks right up there with some of Percy Granger's notations, like "louden lots" and "quickeningly". Seriously though, ask you conductor what they want it to sound like. Maybe some of the listers who have played this can tell you how they interpret it. Brian From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:45:32 -0500 From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: cdsmith@path.med.umich.edu Subject: audience perceptions, pt. 67 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I played a noon "Arts Series" concert today with my jazz quartet. In announcing the tunes, I mentioned that I'd become aware of one ("For Heaven's Sake") from A Billie Holliday record, and that another was probably my favorite Motown song ("What's Going On"). Afterwards, someone came up to me and said "WOW!!!!!! That was great!!!!! I didn't know it was possible to play Billie Holliday or Marvin Gaye on the TROM-BONE!?!?!?!" ..............mmmmmm.....yeah. Chris http://www.geocities.com/~christo From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:17:45 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: An apology... Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear friends, Several days ago, I posted a message to the trombone-l, the subject of which was the taped audition round for a trumpet vacancy in the Boston Symphony Orchestra; the post was subsequently forwarded to several other email lists. Despite my intention for my comments to shed helpful light on the audition process, in retrospect, it is clear to me that parts of my post were intemperate, condescending, and insensitive. Further, framing my comments in the context of an ongoing audition was highly inappropriate. The Boston Symphony Orchestra is committed to the highest standards of fairness and equal access to its auditions. I myself benefited from that fairness 16 years ago when I auditioned for the orchestra, and I deeply regret that my comments may have caused some to have less confidence in the audition process, and that they have hurt both the Boston Symphony's and my own credibility. To those who read my comments and found them to be offensive or inappropriate, I offer my sincere apology and my promise that I will do all I can not to use such poor judgment in the future. Sincerely, Douglas Yeo Bass Trombonist Boston Symphony Orchestra ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:15:55 -0600 From: "David Carter" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) Message-ID: <004701bf6914$1668e9e0$c30298d8@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This system taught to me by Al Lube, is also similar to the system used by Donald Knaub to playing rotary scales in the Remington pattern. If don't know about the Remington pattern, it's a scale practice routine through all keys. In the first key (usually B flat) you start the scale on B flat go up an octave and back down an then in the same key go c to c, and then d to d, etc. until you've played an octave scale on every note in the key of B flat. You then do the same thing in the next key, typically A, then A flat, etc. This gives a good workout in every key. As far as the alternate positions go, the idea here is to keep half steps close together on the slide. So if you have a d flat in 5th you would play c in sixth not first. Most good players do this anyway. When you have a c flat don't go into first but instead use sharp 5th (or flat 3rd if in the staff). If you have a G flat don't come into 1st, but go out to 6th. And so on. Most players do some of this, but many players don't seem to extend this to into a system or use it in real world music. This system also seems to give a tendency away from equal tempermant, as well as better facility with alternate positions. The Remington scales are a good way to incorporate them into your playing. The Remington scales have been found in various iterations of the Remington warm-ups as well one of the editions of the Blazevich edited by was it Knaub? or someone else? can't remember. David Carter David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:51 PM Subject: scale system (was Re: Problems - scales) > Could you (y'awl) elaborate on this method in general? > - Larry > > At 01:15 PM 1/27/00 -0600, David Carter wrote: > >Chris, > >This is more or less the system I was taught by Al Lube when I studied with > >him in the early '70s. It seemed logical to me, but I've been suprised that > >so few players use it. > > > >DC > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Chris Waage > >To: Trombones and related issues forum. > >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:13 PM > >Subject: RE: Problems - scales > > > > > >> Almost 12 years ago, Robert Holland told me that there were specific > >> positions you should use for every scale, with the objective of keeping > >the > >> 1/2 steps together. As I was young and foolish at the time (I'm older now > >> ;-), I really didn't listen. > >> > >> As time went by, I started playing with this, and it started making > >sense - > >> perhaps the speed of sound vs. speed of light argument? I heard, but the > >> light didn't go on? I started working on scales, internalizing the > >> positions which keep the 1/2 steps together, and was pleasently surprised > >> with the results. > >> > >> Now, when I'm in some of the lesser-used keys, I just mentally lock into > >> the positions which I use for the corresponding scale. Instead of > >worrying > >> about the key, I am able listen and play music, relying on the > >internalized > >> scale positions. > >> > >> Here's an example: > >> > >> Gb Major Scale, starting on the bottom of the bass clef staff: > >> Position: 5 3 T3 T2 5 3 6 5 > >> Note: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:22:59 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Brahms and Trombones Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Boston Symphony is performing the Brahms 2nd Symphony this week, on a very nice program which also includes Dvorak's opus 109 symphonic poem, "The Golden Spinning Wheel" and the Bartok 1st Piano Concerto, conducted by Simon Rattle with pianist Peter Donohue. One of the great things of being a part of BSO concerts is getting to read the program book which contains excellent notes by former BSO in-house musicologists Steven Ledbetter and Michael Steinberg, as well as current musicologist in residence, Marc Mandel. The BSO also commissions scholars to write notes on occasion, and this week's note on Brahms 2 is by Jan Swafford who has written a biography of Brahms ""Johannes Brahms: A biography). Swafford has a fascinating tale to tell of Brahms 2 and he speaks for quite some time about the role of the trombones in the Symphony. I found it fascinating reading, so, since the BSO program gets such a limited circulation apart from the 7,000 people who will hear the concerts this week, here is a sample. -Doug Yeo ===== Program notes for Brahms 2nd Symphony Jan Swafford Boston Symphony Orchestra Program Book Week 13, concerts of January 27, 28, 29, 2000 ...The more salient voices disturbing the placid surface [of the Brahms 2nd Symphony] are the trombones and tuba. After the balmy opening, the music seems to stop in its tracks; there is a rumble of timpani like distant thunder, and the trombones and tuba whisper a shadowy chorale, in cryptic harmonies. That shadow touches the whole symphony. Later, the development section is intensified by braying brasses - startling for Brahms, more startling in this halcyon work. >From the beginning of the symphony's career there were some who saw the shadows. One of them, conductor and Brahms acquaintance Vincenz Lachner, complained to the composer about "the gloomy lugubrious tones of the trombones" intruding on the tranquility. Brahms replied with one of the most revealing statements he ever made about his music or about himself: "I very much wanted to manage in that first movement without using trombones, ...But their first entrance, that's mine, and I can't get along without it, and thus the trombones. "I would have to confess that I am...a severely melancholic person, that black wings are constantly flapping above us, and that in my output - perhaps not entirely by chance - that symphony is followed by a little essay about the great 'Why'...It casts the necessary shadow on this serene symphony and perhaps accounts for those timpani and trombones." The "little essay" Brahms mentions is another product of the same summer, the motet "Warum ist das Licht gegeben" (Opus 74, No. 1: "Wherefore is the light given to them that toil?") in which the chorus proclaims Job's anguished question, "Why? Why?" Thus the trombones, the necessary shadow, the great Why." The second movement begins with a sighing high-Brahamsian cello theme. While the tone throughout is passionate and Romantic, the movement's languid beauties are unsettled by rhythmic and harmonic ambiguity. It ends with a chromatic haze like an expansion of the first movement's trombone chorale - and underneath, the relentless strokes of timpani that for Brahms were an image of fate, and the thought of fate always ominous. The final sustained chord sounds remarkably frail and uncertain for B major. ...The finale is a romp, with one droll and delicious theme after another, ending unforgettably with a triumphant D major blaze of trombones. Here Brahms does something he was not supposed to know how to do - make an instrument the bearer of meaning. The trombones as harbingers of fate have become the heralds of joy; avant-gardists of the next century would call that "tone-color" composition. If the great "Why" is ultimately unanswerable, this time Brahms was happy to lay aside thequestion in favor of joi de vivre, flourishing his trombones like a wineglass... ========= ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:30:48 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Gavin Bryars Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline I'm listening to a great CD right now: "Farewell to Philosophy" - music of Gavin Bryars. It contains his Cello Concerto (played by Julian Lloyd Webber and the English Chamber Orchestra), One Last Bar, Then Joe Can Sing (played by Nexus) and By the Vaar (played by Charlie Haden (double bass), a bass clarinetist and the Eng. Chamber Orchestra). Great music. Why doesn't "someone" (by this I mean "someone else"!!) commission him to write something for trombone? From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:57:47 -0600 From: daboneman To: BrianB@PR-CN.COM Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Playing "Wierdly" Message-ID: <3890F79B.E5FA04BD@mciworld.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This reminds me of an instruction that I saw in a 2nd trumpet part recently... it had a cued part of the 1st trumpet solo and above it it stated "Two If Not One"??? Quite confusing.... But maybe it's just the way trumpet players think ;) Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area BrianB@PR-CN.COM wrote: > > "play weirdly". Can you comrades give me an idea as to the style that > > should be used to play this? > > "Play weirdly"? This ranks right up there with some of Percy Granger's > notations, like "louden lots" and "quickeningly". > > Seriously though, ask you conductor what they want it to sound like. Maybe > some of the listers who have played this can tell you how they interpret it. > > Brian From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:04:29 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Playing "Wierdly" Message-ID: <20000128030430.36268.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >In a musical score I am to play, a segment entitled "Devil Music" says to >"play weirdly". Can you comrades give me an idea as to the style that >should be used to play this? It's a segment from "Damn Yankees". First, Iâd try to come up with how the devil would want it to sound. Iâve been known to be devilish, so let me give my interpretation. Iâd play with extremes in dynamics. Iâd add a bit of confusion by breaking up obvious phrases with slurs and staccatos, in the ãwrongä places. Iâd also use a bit of flutter tonguing, here and there. I believe that the devil would like the part played on a small bore horn with a small mouthpiece, to get a very bright sound. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:07:50 EST From: Trmbman@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Arctic Whale? Message-ID: <5f.c0862c.25c26206@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Band director is currently looking for a version of Arctic Whale by Henry Mancini. He is looking for Grade 4 or 5 searches of the internet have really turned up dead ends. I was wondering if there was an older recording( Doug Yeo or Tom Izzo want to respond on this one). The only reasons we are looking for this song is it sound powerful and we need some music for performance in Washington D.C. on May 5th at the Capitol. If anyone out there would like to come see us I will give the details to them. Trombone and Euphonium Player Visit my Webpage at Http://Wactrm.tripod.com or contact me at Trmbman@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:21:42 EST From: JennWhaa@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Arctic Whale? Message-ID: <78.bc15b6.25c26546@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:09:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Trmbman@aol.com writes: > I was wondering if there was an older recording( Doug > Yeo or Tom Izzo want to respond on this one). Are you trying to say that they are old? Heeheehee..... Jen From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:24:12 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Playing "Wierdly" Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000127202412.007cb600@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 02:37 PM 1/27/00 -0600, Berggren, Erik wrote: >I'm a new subscriber to this list, so please be patient! > >In a musical score I am to play, a segment entitled "Devil Music" says to >"play weirdly". Can you comrades give me an idea as to the style that >should be used to play this? It's a segment from "Damn Yankees". Take a cat, hold it upside down, clench the end of its tail in your teeth and squeeze... Oh WAIT! You meant trombone and not BAGPIPES??? Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:35:58 EST From: FOpal@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Illogical high-notes Message-ID: <1c.8c08e3.25c2689e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a story about my friend, who by some way is able to play notes that are extreemly high. He never practices, he can't read notes well, but somehow, he can slur notes all the way up to F (10th partial) and G without my strain. He tells me he just has been able to play like that for a long time. Then there is me who plays 2-3 hours a day. I work hard on building my high range, he never trys. He is not a great player by any means but it bothers me when the players below me can play notes that a much higher than I can squeek out. When you guys are playing "high" your embouchure is not supposed to change.. is there some other minor adjustment or something that allows you to click into there 10th partial and up notes? When I do lip slurs should I be trying to slur with my lip or slur with a faster stream of air? Any explainations for why these guys can pitch out there notes? Im sure you used to have someone in one of your bands that for some unknown reason was able to play higher than you who practiced all the time. I do play all the time and am a very good player, just wanted to be prepared for when Ill play that high all the time in Jazz or scales etc. Thank you. Trombonist, Frank Opal From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:43:58 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Wayne Dyess? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000127204358.00847eb0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wayne Dyess, are you out there? Email to the address I have for you bounces. Please drop me a line. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:11:00 -0700 From: cwales@cavemen.net (Carla Wales) To: Subject: Fw: What do you sugest? Message-ID: <017901bf6945$b0353480$cfa20a0c@1zph8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0176_01BF690B.02EB6040"
 
 
 
 
Hi all!
    This is my first message. I am highschool trombone player. I have been looking for something new I could use on my slide. I have tried Fast slide oil, slide creams, and the like. I have heard about slide-o-mix and trombotine. I would just like any sugestions. Thanks alot!
    K.C. Wales
 
(Do you buy over the internet and if you do what is the site?)
 From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:48:45 -0800 From: Jim Tempest To: Trombone List Post a msg to Subject: Fink Legato Studies Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am looking for piano parts to accompany the studies in Reg Fink's introductory legato study book (sorry, the exact name escapes me at the moment). Does anyone know if they have ever been gathered together, transposed and published as accompaniment for the boo? If not, does anyone know how I can contact Reg to see about getting them? Thanks -- Jim Tempest From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:58:41 -0000 From: "Dynamic Music Publications" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Quick Joke..and another. Message-ID: <000e01bf6965$d03f83a0$199301d5@p8d3q> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Joe Alessi dies and goes to heaven. A student trombonist also dies and > goes to heaven. Upon arrival the student is given a tour by St. Peter. As > they near an area where several people sitting about, the student exclaims, > "WOW! Look over there, it's Joe Alessi!" St. Peter looks over and without > excitement turns back to the student and says, "Nah, that's God, he just > THINKS he's Joe Alessi!" .......then there was this big band trombonist who dies and gets the choice of going to Heaven or Hell. "Well, all my musician friends must be in Hell, so I'll go there" he says. Just as he thought, there, in Hell, was this huge big band with all the greats playing in it. "Hey, you've got a trombone" says one of players "come on, join in". So he gets the 'bone out and sits on the 3rd desk and joins in on a Basie number. 2 hours later - and still in the same piece - the trombonist says "This is fantastic, but when do we go to the coda?" His neighbour says "Coda? what coda?" ARGHHHHHH!!!! Cheers, Dave Dave Hankin, Hamilton, Scotland - DYNAMIC MUSIC PUBLICATIONS Specialists in Trombone Ensemble Music - www.btinternet.com/~dynamicmusic Adrian Drover/Dave Hankin Big Band - www.btinternet.com/~dynamicmusic/bigband From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:04:11 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Jim Tempest Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Fink Legato Studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I don't have a copy of this book on hand to refer to, but chances are, Fink attributed his selections to authors like Concone, Bordogni, and others. The original vocal editions (complete with accompaniment) of these vocalises shouldn't be too difficult to find in any music library, but they may be in different keys and with different numbering from the Fink book (as is the case with the Rochut/Bordogni books, book 1 of which was actually origianlly published as "24 Easy Solfeggi" or something like that, not to be found in his more standard vocalise collections--I would look up the correct name but my library's search engine doesn't operate at 3AM ;) Anyway, the accompaniments (and vocal parts with original markings) aren't too difficult to find (but some aren't the most interesting accompaniments in the world!). Beth Lewis On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Jim Tempest wrote: > I am looking for piano parts to accompany the studies in Reg Fink's > introductory legato study book (sorry, the exact name escapes me at the > moment). Does anyone know if they have ever been gathered together, > transposed and published as accompaniment for the boo? If not, does anyone > know how I can contact Reg to see about getting them? > > Thanks > -- > Jim Tempest > > From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:11:24 -0000 From: BUNTING N W Dr To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: Mic Query for UK listers Message-ID: <17FD488B2E65D311B4EE009027AA4C3BB29E@PCGSERV1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mike, try: http://www.afmckay.demon.co.uk/ http://www.oktava.com http://www.klay.com/ (based in Salt Lake City) > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Coyle [mailto:astro@pconline.com] > Sent: 27 January 2000 16:25 > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Mic Query for UK listers > > > I feel like a headline writer for a tabloid when I have to **snip** > Thank you, > > Mike Coyle > From ???@??? Fri Jan 28 07:52:07 2000 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 03:29:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Robins To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Question Message-ID: <20000128112915.28071.qmail@web122.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings list, I know this has been covered in the past, but I can't seem to find it in the archives or FAQ. In 3 weeks, I will be flying to Rochester, NY to audition for the graduate program at the Eastman School of Music. I need to take 2 horns with me (a Bach 42 and a Bach 16) because i am playing both a "classical" and a jazz audition. I think I'll be able to get one horn in the overhead. However, I need advice as to what the best route would be for me to take. Should I check one? Should i build a plywood box to put the case in? HELP!!!! Thanks again, Jim ===== James Robins Candidate, BM Music Education - Trombone University of New Hamsphire Kappa Kappa Psi-Iota Phi #44 VPM-HB Fall '99 http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jprobins __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! 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