TROMBONE-L Digest 1576 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re:Steward M. Crane Opinion by "Eric" 2) The Difference by "Eric" 3) Playing for love & passion by "Eric" 4) Trombone vacancy by donald knaub 5) Re: Help! I could be torturing you! by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 6) Goofing off (was Re: I was tortured....) by REOnofreyJ@aol.com 7) Re: Playing too fast by Tbcwes@aol.com 8) Re: Goofing off (was Re: I was tortured....) by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 9) RE: praise and criticism by David Molter 10) BSO auditions by Don Wampler 11) A good, simple rule for auditions by Douglas Yeo 12) Re: BSO auditions by Douglas Yeo 13) Ain't it awful about music in the schools these days... by "Tom C. Shaddox" 14) Re: Help! I'm being tortured... by Eric and Candice Swanson 15) RE: Help! I could be torturing you! by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 16) RE: praise & criticism by David Molter 17) RE: praise & criticism by "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" 18) Re: Slide Cleaning by Eric and Candice Swanson 19) Re: Tuning Slides by Eric and Candice Swanson 20) Re: I was tortured.... by "Ellard" 21) Re: Philip Jones' death by John Capon 22) Re: BSO auditions by sackbutt 23) youth and old age (was: I was tortured....) by Mike Coyle 24) Tapes, High Standards, and Educating Kids by MBennetts@aol.com 25) Re: Octave jumping by "Adrian Drover" 26) audition tapes - let's make 'em better by Mike Coyle 27) Preview - New Yeo CD mp3 files by Douglas Yeo 28) making tapes and D. Yeo's webpage by Mike Coyle 29) Harmon Mute? by Trmbman@aol.com 30) Trombone Choir Music? by Trmbman@aol.com 31) Slide cleaning - the "Doctor's" method by Jgicking@aol.com 32) Re: Harmon Mute? by "Christopher Smith" 33) Playing standards (was "I was tortured") by james.c.shake@us.pwcglobal.com 34) Re: A good, simple rule for auditions by "Michael W. Millar & Dava S. Millar" 35) They were despised for their inequities by CaryMusic@aol.com 36) RE: They were despised for their inequities by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 37) RE: They were despised for their inequities by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 38) Sorry, it just slipped out by "Tom C. Shaddox" 39) is there hope for me? by "James Yardley" 40) Useful College Trombonists' Handbook by Douglas Yeo 41) Re: ONLY a senior? and self esteem... by NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 42) Re: youth and old age (was: I was tortured....) by NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 43) Philip Jones story by "David Pozos" 44) Re: is there hope for me? by Douglas Yeo 45) Re: is there hope for me? by "Daniel Pliskin" 46) For Sale Conn bass slide by BassBonist@aol.com 47) For Sale: Bach 50 handslide by BassBonist@aol.com 48) Trombones for High School by "Phillip Larson" 49) Re: making tapes and D. Yeo's webpage by AlRobnett@aol.com 50) Random question by JennWhaa@aol.com 51) Re: is there hope for me? by sabutin@mindspring.com 52) Re: Help!! Dark Eyes by Larry & Carol Bronisz 53) Re: is there hope for me? by "Kenneth Dowdy" 54) LIST ABUSE by Listmonitor Trombone-L 55) Re: Random question by "Brian Frederiksen" 56) Bach Thayer by "John Grubbs" 57) Re: Trombones for High School by NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 58) I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me... by "Edwin Miller" 59) Re: Trombones for High School by daboneman 60) I'm Back and Lower! by "Daron K. Bilyeu" 61) Phil Smith by Tbcwes@aol.com 62) Virtual Lessons by "David S Staines" 63) Re: Random question by "Nicholas Peter Hayes" 64) Re: Philip Jones' death by aceftd@aztec.asu.edu (FRANK T. DARMIENTO) 65) Re: I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me... by Beth Lewis 66) Re: Philip Jones' death by Jay Heltzer 67) Re: Random question by "Ben Gurton" 68) Re: Trombones for High School by "Ben Gurton" From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:54 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:18:37 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Re:Steward M. Crane Opinion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF6383.89786E60"
Greeting,
I'm not totally disagreeable with Mr Steward's opinion; personally i feel players who send in the tape should be committed or resonsible enough to take time off seriously to listen to their tape and touch up on their music if they are really seriously interested in getting into BSO.
 
This indeed its not a test of just their techniques, skills and overall performance.  Its a show of their committment and earnest of music and the righteous attitude of a musician.
 From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:54 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:18:40 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: The Difference Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF6383.8ACFC100"
Greetings,
I'm situated in Singapore.  The major difference between European Countries and Singapore: While Music is widely promoted in both countries, not every young musicians can afford the instruments personally.  Well, we also do not have a wide selection of symphony, bands, or music groups to minge with. 
 
I personally feel all of you out there are more fortunate than us.  You have several choices of groups or organisation to play in, tons of concerts, workshops to gain exposure.  What do we have?  Expect for the lucky few of us who are able to afford their own instruments, gain acceptance in the tiny band circle, what other choices do we have?
 
Indeed i really envy your position, comparing yours to mine.  What more could you hope for?
 From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:55 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:18:43 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Playing for love & passion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF6383.8C410440"
 
Greetings,
I admit i play the trombone because i play it for my fiery passion and love for music, and my beloved trombone.  For all the players & musicians out there, i trust you will always have music in your life; if you seldom touch your "bone" for ages, a slight figament of band music will surely tigger you to go back to your trombone.
 
Indeed I play my trombone for passion and because i love the Trombone.
 From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:55 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:29:17 -0600 From: donald knaub To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Trombone vacancy Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Trombone digesters: Steve Bryant, Search Comm. Chair for the Trombone Position here at UT Austin, has asked me to post the following: Position--Artist teacher of Trombone Starting Date--1 September 2000 Rank and Salary--Associate Professor (tenured) or Assistant Professor (tenure track), rank and salary commensurate with qualifications and experience. Qualifications--Master's degree or appropriate professional equivalent required; prior experience in teaching at the college level; professional experience as performer; ability and commitment to recruit and attract exceptional trombone students. Responsibilities--Teach undergraduate and graduate applied trombone; coach brass quintets; perform in faculty ensembles; teach trombone methods courses; conduct trombone choir. Application--Send letter of application, curriculum vitae, recording, and at least three current letters of recommendation to: Dr. Michael C. Tusa Acting Director School of Music Trombone Search University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712 Deadline--1 February, 2000 Materials sent by applicants requiring their return must be accompanied by prepaid postage/packaging. The University of Texas at Austin is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Keep them cards and letters coming....... Donald Knaub Retiring Professor of Trombone UT Austin From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:55 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:48:43 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Help! I could be torturing you! Message-ID: <003501bf634d$1e08fb80$d35efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angie, Are we comparing apples & apples here? You're talking abut improving in a learning enviroment and Doug was talking about sending in a tape for an orchestra that pays a minimum of $80,000 a year. Two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. The Boston Symphony is NOT there to teach you how to become an artist: they have the assumption that because someone sends in a tape for them to consider that candidate for a posision that you already are an artist, not some green rookie. Doug's original post had absolutely nothing to do with praise or the lack of it. There is a way of correcting someone's faults as they learn a craft without making them feel like a worthless blob of nothing. However, I sincerely believe that we expect teachers to do too much sometimes. I know as a parent that I expect my child's 3rd grade teacher to mark words wrong if they're misspelled in any subject and to use the words "sloppy" and "messy" or "do it over" if her penmanship doesn't meet a certain standard. Incidentally, my child's teacher disagrees. Something that hasn't changed about learning in general is that it is more difficult to relearn anything after it has been learned incorrectly than if it is learned properly the first time. I, as a private trombone teacher, do not hesitate to reassign the easy exercises on pages 19 and following of the Arbans book if notes are missed, time and rhythm is bad, if it's out of tune, etc. I don't just sit back on my duff and listen to a student playand reassign it: I actually play for students in the lesson to give them the proper concept of what I expect. Yes, the standard is very high, but if I don't keep it there, the student doesn't have a goal for which to aim, and I've helped to create a mediocre learning enviroment as far as a standard is concerned. I also take into account the student's effort in preparing his lessons. I'm not an ogre, but after you have some experience, you can tell whether or not a student has been practicing. If there is improvement in some area, I'll acknowledge it. Somehow, someway, we've GOT to get the parents back in on the education act. My job is NOT to make a student feel good about his playing if it's bad. By in large, self-esteem is the PARENT'S job. Teachers, regardless of their discipline, have enough of a daunting task getting the material out to the student in the short amount of time that they have. That's NOT giving the teacher a license to make a student feel worthless, but if there are faults, there needs to be steps taken to correct them before they become habit. One of my favorite questions that I ask in a student's lesson is "Did you practice it that way?" If they had at least a week to prepare something and they come in and play it wrong and they didn't know that it was wrong, then a deeper problem exists. Another method of practicing MUST be introduced in order to rectify the situation. Many times with younger students it's playing every note in a passage as a long tone until they can internalize the intervals between the notes. Ditch-digging, back-breaking work, but necessary if the student is going to GET IT RIGHT. In music especially, a lot of things are going to be wrong before they are right. Does that mean we accept the wrong way as the standard? I don't think so. BTW, getting back to your comment in your P.S. about NEVER MIND THE SPELLING--and we're not here to blast you, but I remember as a 6th grader my English teacher telling us that when she was in college that if she handed in a paper that ONE WORD mispelled, the standard policy was to lower the grade to a C. Mind you--this was undergraduate school in the '50's. It's called attention to details. I never learned the proper way to type, and I do make spelling errors occasionally, but I don't like them. I still look over my e-mails before I send them because I want this list to think of me as being somewhat of a literate person, and it has to start somewhere. How about with good spelling, good grammar, and correct punctuation? If these basic things are right, then you don't have any problem looking further into my posts for worthwhile content. The same thing applies in music---let's get the notes, time, rhythm, and intonation correct first , and then we dig deeper to develop artistry. Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony du> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 5:13 AM Subject: Re: Help! I could be torturing you! > At 6:42 PM -0500 1/19/00, Beth Lewis wrote: > > >Hold on a second...I'm no supporter of the '2+2=5 as long as you feel > >good about it' regime, but there HAS to be some praise in music > >instruction. You shouldn't blame parents/friends for being too heavy on > >that end of the spectrum (how can they help it?), but from teachers it is > >necessary in some amount. How would you feel if in every trombone lesson > >you have ever had, or any kind of instruction for that matter, all the > >teacher had to say was stuff like "Okay...your articulation's sloppy," > >"you're dragging," or "that was out of tune"...no positive reinforcement > >of any kind. > > Been there, done that, should probably be on a heavy regimine of > prozac because of it. Seriously though, a person who is completely > negative in any interaction is not a good sort to be around. This is > especially true in the case of a teacher. If a student hears nothing but > negativity, that student is likely to wonder *if* they can even improve, > and if not, why are they even trying. Some people probably thrive on > negativity, but most do not. > During my freshman year of college, I had three four private > teachers, trombone, writing, and ancient Greek. My trombone teacher was > not a good match for me (ok, part of that was because he was a trumpet > player trying to teach me bass and tenor bone.). He was quite negative. > My writing teacher and Greek teacher could mix praise with *constructive* > criticism quite well. I grew as a writer and my understanding of Ancient > Greek grew quite a bit that year. I did not really grow as a trombone > player. I grew further over the next three years as a writer. When I > graduated, my writing teacher told me that when I was a freshman, he did > not think I would improve signifigantly as a writer because I lacked a > sense of rhythm. Somehow, he managed to keep that bit to himself while he > pushed and prodded and I worked. He said he didn't know how I did it, but > I somehow aquired a sense of rhythm on my own. I've often said that if I am > a good writer it is because of his teaching. The truth is that I had to be > willing to work and to listen and he had to be willing to mix in a bit of > praise with the criticism to help me develop my voice. > Self-Esteem has become a bit of a whipping boy of late. The new PC > is to denigrate the concept of self esteem. While there have certainly > been excesses in the movement, a healthy sense of self worth is esstential > to get through life. (Really, 2+2=5-maybe to a lawyer. ) Life is > full of rejection from play ground teasing to getting fired from a job. If > you do not have a healthy sense of self worth, you will become paralyzed. > Another point brought up in this discussion is the praise our > friends heap on us. Don't underestimate its importance. They can over do > it at times, but it is one of those essetntial props against the slings and > arrows of life. If I did not have all the support and encouragement of my > friends in real life and on line, I could not have gotten through my recent > employment nastiness. (Thought I could have done without the $108 phone > bill...) > > P. S. Nevermind the spelling, that's what editors are for. They aren't > good for much else. They don't even cook up decently. :-) > > Angie Brunk > MLS Indiana University School of Library and Information Science 1999 > "As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man > objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever."--Clarence > Darrow > > > From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:56 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:51:55 EST From: REOnofreyJ@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Goofing off (was Re: I was tortured....) Message-ID: <3c.b91c7d.25b86cfb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 1/19/2000, eljaywhite@telus.net wrote: >Just recently, late last year, I was very privileged to sit under what I >consider one if not the top band instructors for three weeks. This gentlemand >has forgotten more than most of us would care to even learn, but what were the >young people doing. >Goofing off, and not picking up the tips, the explanations as to why a certain >piece should sound a certain way at a certain point. >"The basses should be light as if they were being plucked like a string bass, >not plodding through the notes" >Not only were they not absorbing what was being imparted, but they were also a >disturbance to the rest who wanted to improve their playing. >A pity? Yes, and I am sure not only in Canada. I couldn't agree more. Until recently, I played in a local community band. Many of the people in the band were "mature" musicians (in age, not necessarily in playing skills). However, about half the band was populated by students from the local high school. Most of the rehearsals were taken up with these less mature youths goofing off, chatting, playing whatever they felt like playing, and not paying attention to the band director. In short, not only were they disruptful to the other musicians, but also prevented the band as a whole from improving. The director spent most of each rehearsal reprimanding the band for not paying attention, asking for quiet, etc. Because of this, I left the band and have begun playing with another community band, in another community, which requires that the musicians at least have graduated from high school. The quality of musicianship, as well as the maturity of the members of this band is heads and shoulders above the other band. Rick Onofrey From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:56 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:15:29 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: FOpal@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Playing too fast Message-ID: <68.e5f9a6.25b87281@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/19/00 10:48:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, FOpal@AOL.COM writes: << I have a 16 notes in a run and I have to hit positions 5 1 3 5 for a rising arpeggio for a Gb Bb Eb Gb >> First, clean and lub your slide. Then try not to move your horn when you play. Then try 5, #5, 3, #3 or 5, b3T (assuming you have a trigger), 3, 5 depending on the octave (lower being the latter). -Wes From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:56 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:42:15 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Goofing off (was Re: I was tortured....) Message-ID: <000f01bf6354$8c280960$f15efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rick, Good for you!! You've learned something very important that needs to preached from he housetops. It is IMPOSSIBLE to teach undisciplined people music. That is just one reason why I am NOT in favor starting kids in band too early (some as early as 4th grade). In the school system I finished high school in, band wasn't started until the 7th grade. In today's terms that is considered to be unthinkable (too late), but here's several reasons why that's still a good concept. 1) Children (especially boys) go through a growth spurt between the 6th and 7th grade years that will make it easier physically to play a wind instrument. 2) The maturity between 6th & 7th graders is noticeably better. 3) The mathematics needed to play music (fractions) has already been introduced. BTW, PARENTS: if you want your children to be involved in music before middle school, have them sing in a choir or take piano lessons. The piano is still our basis for all of music theory, and if this instruction is done correctly, they already have a head start in playing another instrument---such as know the names of their lines & spaces in whatever clef, a knowledge of note values and playing proper time & rhythm. Yes, I know the Doug Yeo started playing the trombone in the 4th grade, & I'm not saying that it can't be done, but as far as I'm concerned, no crime has been committed if band is started in the 7th grade. Besides that, if a child doesn't develop the discipline to learn the piano when they're young, you as a parent can decide whether or not band is a good idea. Believe me, there were times when I wanted to quit piano, and my daughter (8) has wanted to quit (she started just after her 5th birthday), but we're very glad that we've made her stick it out. It's even meant changing teachers twice, and being a professional musician myself, believe me, I have some definite ideas about music should be taught to children. I can sit in on my daughter's piano lessons any time I want and from time to time I am even asked for imput. Remember one thing: you are paying for that teacher's time, and if you're not getting your money's worth, don't just scrap it. Get another teacher who is willing to work not only with your child but also with you as far as how concepts are taught. Very rare is it a good idea for parents or a relative to teach their own kids. The kids come out the winners in the long run--isn't that what it's all about? Paul Kemp Chattanooga Symphony ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:51 AM Subject: Goofing off (was Re: I was tortured....) > On 1/19/2000, eljaywhite@telus.net wrote: > > > >Just recently, late last year, I was very privileged to sit under what I > >consider one if not the top band instructors for three weeks. This gentlemand > >has forgotten more than most of us would care to even learn, but what were > the > >young people doing. > >Goofing off, and not picking up the tips, the explanations as to why a > certain > >piece should sound a certain way at a certain point. > >"The basses should be light as if they were being plucked like a string bass, > >not plodding through the notes" > >Not only were they not absorbing what was being imparted, but they were also > a > >disturbance to the rest who wanted to improve their playing. > >A pity? Yes, and I am sure not only in Canada. > > > I couldn't agree more. Until recently, I played in a local community band. > Many of the people in the band were "mature" musicians (in age, not > necessarily in playing skills). However, about half the band was populated > by students from the local high school. Most of the rehearsals were taken up > with these less mature youths goofing off, chatting, playing whatever they > felt like playing, and not paying attention to the band director. In short, > not only were they disruptful to the other musicians, but also prevented the > band as a whole from improving. The director spent most of each rehearsal > reprimanding the band for not paying attention, asking for quiet, etc. > > Because of this, I left the band and have begun playing with another > community band, in another community, which requires that the musicians at > least have graduated from high school. The quality of musicianship, as well > as the maturity of the members of this band is heads and shoulders above the > other band. > > Rick Onofrey > From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:57 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:50:57 -0500 (EST) From: David Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: praise and criticism Message-ID: <383815826.948379857652.JavaMail.root@web26.pub01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug Yeo's remarks concerning the BSO trumpet auditions were well founded and needed to be said, no matter how harsh they may seem. There seems to be in all education these days a disturbing trend to back off from criticism -- and not only among music teachers. My example has to do with my 10-year-old son and is not music-related, but indulge me while I use it to support my point. One week before the end of my son's last grading period, we received a phone call from one of his teachers. My son had been having trouble with math. We knew this, of course, because we assist him with homework and attempt to explain concepts that he doesn't understand. We were expecting a lousy grade -- at least a D. My son received a B. He didn't deserve a B. Why did he receive a B? According to my sister-in-law, a teacher in the same school, it's because the prevailing attitude is that low grades reduce self-esteem. The same logic has eliminated the "F" from the grading system at this school: students now receive an "E" if they are failing. Why? Because "F" is a stigma. "But if you no longer give F's," I attempted to explain to my son, "then an E IS an F. You're STILL failing." "But it's not an F," he countered, happily. Yaaargh! Sorry for the long setup. My point is, too many teachers are reluctant to fairly evaluate their students because they live in fear of "turning them off" to education. I guess they don't live in fear of turning out a generation that can't spell, add, read or play music in rhythm. I'm a professional writer, and I have cringed many times at the stuff submitted by journalism school graduates who don't know where to place commas and can't spell. These are the rudiments: they should be pounded into the heads of prospective writers from Day One, just as scales, tone, and rhythm should be pounded into the heads of prospective professional musicians. I would not send out a story with a typo to a prospective employer. Why would someone who wants to play for a professional symphony orchestra send out a tape with mistakes on it? Yaargh! There is, of course, a fine balance between praise and criticism, and I can't endorse strongly enough that they be dispensed in nearly equal doses. Or -- following a technique that has been used with great success by management personnel in all areas of business -- that criticism be prefaced by praise (This is a great display BUT ... half the boxes are upside-down!). There is a technique to effective criticism, and I can still remember the hurt on my son's face after he asked, "Why do I have to practice? I already know all the notes!", and I countered, without thinking, "You don't know anything!" Stupid, stupid, stupid. I'll attempt to wrap this up. Many fine musicians were taught by knuckle-busting taskmasters. Many were taught by very calm individuals who never raised their voices. Most were probably taught by those who used some combination of the two. Criticism and nothing else WILL discourage but sometimes can motivate. Praise and nothing else WILL lead to false self-evaluation and sometimes will lead to laziness. But eventually a good teacher has to fairly evaluate the progress and likelihood of success of someone who wants to play professionally. I don't expect my son's trombone teacher to scream at him or whack his knuckles with a pencil if he misses a slide position or an accidental, the way my first teacher did. But after my son has played a while longer, I do expect his teacher to be honest enough to tell him if he should major in music or attempt a career as a professional player. And I hope that my son has enough common sense, if he is still playing well at age 17, to run an audition tape past his teacher before boxing it up and going to the post office. Someone, at some point, has to say, "Self-esteem be damned. You need to practice more." Otherwise, we will allow mediocrity to take root at the top and spread downward until incompetance is accepted at the lower levels. OK. I'm off the soapbox. Yaargh! Dave Molter Pitsburgh,PA From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:57 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:56:16 -0600 From: Don Wampler To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: BSO auditions Message-ID: <38872210.E9AE150F@americancentury.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Doug. I was wondering.... I spent 3 or 4 bucks for that tape.... You are planning on sending it back aren't you? :-) From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:57 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:05:14 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: A good, simple rule for auditions Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Let's say I decide to retire from the Boston Symphony tomorrow (dream on!). You want the job. You send in a tape or get invited to play in the live rounds. Question: What kind of player does the BSO audition committee want to hire? Simple answer: Someone who is as good or preferably better player than me. It's that simple. The Boston Symphony (or Chicago, NY Phil, name your group) is not a training ground for players. It is a proving ground. The training grounds are schools and summer festivals. As Paul Kemp mentioned in a recent message, we are paid extremely well, and audiences pay a lot of money to hear us re-interpret great Western music. The expectation of excellence is high. When you make a tape or go to an audition, keep in mind what the standard is. Many people who get cut in professional auditions go away thinking, "Gee, that committee is crazy, after all, I'm first chair in my college orchestra." Wrong standard. Good for you for being first chair in your college orchestra, but that's a small pool. Ask my students and former students how I work with them. There are teachers who yell and scream, demean, throw things, insult, etc. Not me. My goal as a teacher is to have the students teach themselves. If I tell a student how to articulate a note, they learn how to do it. If I help a student discover how to articulate a note, they internalize it. At the first lesson I have with any student, I ask what their goals are. If they say they want to be doing what I'm doing, I teach with one standard in mind. If they say they just want to freelance around and enjoy being as good as they can be, I teach with another standard. I play in lessons, I model the standard. I push my students to try different things. Some of them "get it" and others don't. I have a number of current and former students on the list - they know what I'm like. We have fun, laugh, cry and learn from each other in the studio. But there is NEVER any confusion as to what is "good enough" for the goal the student sets for him/herself. Encouragement is always given for that which proceeds in the right direction. But I never tell a student that they "got it" when they didn't. Fire me if that ever happens. 2 cents of advice: Look around, listen, think. And remember, there is hope! For those who "get it" and understand that they need to reach to higher and higher levels of excellence in order to pick off the gold ring, the prizes are there. I recall when I auditioned for the Baltimore Symphony the first time, in 1980. There were five of us in the finals. NOT ONE OF US HAD A PROFESSIONAL ORCHESTRA JOB TO LIST ON OUR RESUME. We were, in essence, "inexperienced." But look at the list of finalists and where we ended up (this list is in order of how we finished at the 1980 Baltimore audition): John Engelkes - Baltimore --> San Francisco Sym Tom Klaber - Detroit --> Cleveland Orch Douglas Yeo - Baltimore --> Boston Sym Steve Norrell - Phoenix --> Metropolitan Opera Orch David Herring - Florida Gulf Coast Sym --> Minnesota Orch It happens. Often. But only to those who understand what the standards are. They're not hard to understand, but it requires a person the most difficult thing in the world: Be honest with yourself. I'll be off the list tomorrow and Saturday as I head to Chicago to hear our daughter play a concerto. I've thoroughly enjoyed these threads and based on the private email I've received as well as the public postings, there is a LOT of thinking going on. Just proof again that there's hope! -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:58 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:06:34 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: BSO auditions Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 8:56 AM -0600 1/20/00, Don Wampler wrote: >Hey Doug. I was wondering.... >I spent 3 or 4 bucks for that tape.... >You are planning on sending it back aren't you? :-) Hey Don. I spent 5 valuable minutes listening to that tape. Can I get my 5 minutes back? :-) -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:58 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:58:15 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Ain't it awful about music in the schools these days... Message-ID: <38873096.217ECC0D@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At my younger daughter's school, anybody can play football and be in music. The football team practices on the playground. The band has a brand new band hall. There are three football teams. There are four bands. And three string orchestras. And three choirs. The top football team won two games this fall. The top band last spring (made up of second and third year players) took the grade 5 piece "Variations on a Korean Folk Song" to contest and won the "Best Band at Festival" award. Two-thirds of the people in the stands at the football games are parents of band members. On the subject of making people feel good about bad performance, I just can't. So for any American that whines about the awful state of music education at the local schools, sorry but I can't commiserate. School board elections typically draw less than 15% of the electorate, and sometimes much less. Schools go begging for volunteers, mentors, and chaperones. Four years ago a presidential candidate said society should expend more effort and resources on turning a 6 year old into a successful, healthy and prepared 16 year old than we do in turning a 70 year old into an 80 year old. His poll numbers went through the cellar. If you want to really know the value Americans place on schools, graph teacher salaries vs. inflation over the last 50 years. I just can't bring myself to say, "Yes, I know schools aren't what they should be; I feel the pain of the victims of this, but I want you adults, especially those of you in the 'greatest generation', to feel good about having done everything you could have to make a difference." Please excuse this rant - I know I'm mostly preaching to the choir here. I've read many, many posts from listers about involvement in your local schools and in your kids lives, and I know some of you are in the trenches every day on this. But it frustrates me when I hear an American, guaranteed freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and the right to vote, say "Schools are full of high self-esteem, low performance PC these days." Like I'm supposed to pat the speaker on the back and say, "That's right, you're so insightful"? More like hold 'em by the nose, kick 'em in the seat of the pants and yell, "And whose fault is that?" I gotta go practice, Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:58 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:06:10 +0000 From: Eric and Candice Swanson To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Help! I'm being tortured... Message-ID: <3886DE10.F6FE6336@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...by a thread that won't die!!!!!! From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:58 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:09:30 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Help! I could be torturing you! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jen wrote, > I am not trying to say that I don't want or deserve positive comments! I > just want them when they are warranted. I do believe in motivating > younger players with positive comments but I feel that for my personal > tastes, I would like to know exactly how I am doing - the good, the bad > and the ugly. As I progress with my music, I find myself needing to know > more about what is wrong with what I am doing than what is right. And a > good, swift kick into reality is good. I seem to be having a lot of those > lately.... > You are asking for something that seems simple enough, but it is very difficult. Self-esteem is very necessary, but it is wrong for "educators" to make it an end in itself. We need to have an accurate picture of how well we do things--actually, of what kind of person we are. But it is very easy to delude ourselves into believing that we are either better or worse than we really are. So we need feedback from others. But others might not know enough to offer competent criticism. Or they may be temperamentally incapable of offering the right balance of positive and negative. So as much as we need honesty from others, we don't always get it, don't always recognize it when we do get it, and don't always know what and who to trust. And so we still have an infinite capacity for self-delusion. Yet somehow, most of us do grow both in competence at tasks (such as playing trombone) and in maturity. Part of the trick is finding the right balance of confidence and humility. This thread has brought forth a few complaints about the behavior of high school students: self-satisfied, bored, unwilling to pay attention to people in authority asking them to do things differently, unable to recognize when to keep quiet and listen. Alas, age is no guarantee of maturity. Some people old enough to be these kids' grandparents don't behave any better. What's lacking here is humility. None of us can know "exactly what we're doing--the good, the bad, and the ugly", but we can always strive to know better now than we did last week. We can determine whom we can trust and pay special attention to what they tell us. We can be humble enough to listen, to set aside our immediate gratification for the good of the ensemble, and to respect our colleagues and superiors. We can develop a quiet confidence to know when we have some feedback worth offering to others. Wow! Doug cried out in pain over some bad audition tapes, and look how many directions it has led us. What a fascinating list! ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:59 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: David Molter To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: praise & criticism Message-ID: <382483279.948385530753.JavaMail.root@web28.pub01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re my previous post about teachers, praise, etc: Wouldn't ya know ... just when I go and spout off about kids not being able to spell and mistakes on audition tapes, I would spell something wrong. This the divine forces' way of telling me I need humility, I guess. Luckily the divine force doesn't carry a pencil to whack my knuckles! In the tradition of newspapers everywhere, I will not repeat the mistake. In the tradition of my former regional manager's corrective technique: "Dave, this was a really nice post ... BUT maybe you should use spell check." Sari. Eye wheel. Dave Molter From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:59 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:31:13 -0500 From: "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" To: "'TBone List'" Subject: RE: praise & criticism Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dave Molter wrote: "Wouldn't ya know ... I would spell something wrong. In the tradition of newspapers everywhere, I will not repeat the mistake." Let me guess...too many 'a's in "Yaaargh!"? Gordon Bennett Harris Air Traffic Control Communications "Eight minute drum solo in the middle of 'Greensleeves.'" - From "The Top 17 Signs You're At A Bad Renaissance Festival," Top 5 Productions From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:51:59 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:33:32 +0000 From: Eric and Candice Swanson To: b-wilson@bigfoot.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Slide Cleaning Message-ID: <3886E479.7E50F8FB@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett Wilson wrote: > What do you guys use to clean the inside of your outer slide? I got the > cleaning rod but I'm not sure what to put on the end of it. > Brett, You will probably find some good ideas at : http://brusseau.com/TromboneFAQ/ If anybody hasn't checked it out, there's all kinds of information about trombone stuff. Eric Swanson From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:00 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:38:14 +0000 From: Eric and Candice Swanson Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Tuning Slides Message-ID: <3886E593.D08B3176@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett Wilson wrote: > What do you all recommend using to lubricate tuning slides? I've got > this stuff I got from the Brasswind but it's really thick. Are all > tuning slide greases this thick or is there something thinner? > Brett, I've been using STP Oil Treatment for 20 years. I haven't found anything that works better or lasts longer. You can buy it just about anywhere, and it's cheap. Hint: use a small brush to apply it. Eric Swanson From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:00 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:00:44 -0800 From: "Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I was tortured.... Message-ID: <006401bf6367$e5569020$2dee94d1@ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry wrote: However, the young people, in the majority, that are coming out of school etc. these days think that they have all, yes all the knowledge and woe betide the old geezer that would dare to offer advice or suggest a different way to do something. Respect, is something else that has gone out the window. ________________________________________________________________ You know you're getting on when you start complaining about "those kids today". Nothing has changed. Youth is as disrepectful as ever (although better armed than before). Check out the film "28Up" (now available as "42Up"). Rod From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:00 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 00 09:13:59 -0700 From: John Capon To: "Nicholas Peter Hayes" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Philip Jones' death Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Any listers have their own PJBE favourites? Nicholas and all, Yes, Philip made a huge contribution to the world of music. Rutter's Gloria is good. I like the Christmas album with the London Bach Choir and Sir David Wilcox. John John Capon Music Director, Malaspina Choir Artistic Director, Summer Jazz Academy Brass Instructor, Malaspina University/College Leader, John Capon Quartet Music Director, Gabriola Chamber Players R.R. 1, Site 3, C14 Gabriola, BC, Canada V0R 1X0 phone: 250 247 8531 http://www.islandnet.com/~bigbird/ My new CD - "Full Circle"is now available at Brad Howland's site http://www.musicforbrass.com/index.html Email: bigbird@islandnet.com fax: 250 247 9357 (please phone 250 247 8531 first to make sure fax is on) From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:00 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:18:48 -0500 From: sackbutt To: Bone List Subject: Re: BSO auditions Message-ID: <38874378.DEFE8AB7@netdepot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Doug....you been taking "snappy comeback" lessons from Adrian??? :-) Douglas Yeo wrote: > At 8:56 AM -0600 1/20/00, Don Wampler wrote: > > >Hey Doug. I was wondering.... > >I spent 3 or 4 bucks for that tape.... > >You are planning on sending it back aren't you? :-) > > Hey Don. > > I spent 5 valuable minutes listening to that tape. Can I get my 5 > minutes back? > > :-) > > -Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > -- Butch ****************************************************** Hector "Butch" Bourg Jr. - Graphic Designer - Atlanta, GA Trombonist - Sentimental Journey Orchestra ICQ# 28972254 VISIT OUR UPDATED, REVISED & RELOCATED SITE http://www.thesjo.com Now with Real Audio Sound Clips! From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:00 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:45:29 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: ellard@sprint.ca Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: youth and old age (was: I was tortured....) Message-ID: <200001201745.LAA05933@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:00 AM 1/20/00 , you wrote: >Larry wrote: > >However, the young people, in the majority, that are coming out of school >etc. >these days think that they have all, yes all the knowledge and woe betide >the >old geezer that would dare to offer advice or suggest a different way to do >something. >Respect, is something else that has gone out the window. > >________________________________________________________________ > >You know you're getting on when you start complaining about "those kids >today". Nothing has changed. Youth is as disrepectful as ever (although >better armed than before). Check out the film "28Up" (now available as >"42Up"). > >Rod Thank you, Rod. Truer words were never spoken! Kids are indeed no different now than at any other time. And, just because someone is old does not mean they are worth respecting. As a kid I worshiped my teacher/mentor Henry Schmidt (trombonist/musicologist/great human being). He and some other "old men" played in the Pennsylvania Brass Quintet and when I was asked to sub with them for the first time I could not have been more honored and thrilled had I received the Congressional Medal of Honor! Why did I respect them? They were fine musicians, very kind and generous people and they treated me as if I too was worth respect. As for kids today, all the kids I work with, yes everyone, show me the same respect. I don't ask for it, sometimes I feel I don't even deserve it. I listen to them very seriously and take their interests to heart. We also play (as in having fun, not always with music). Once they find out that I was once a kid too and have not lost touch with that reality they warm up and develop the trust necessary to do good work. In general there are three periods to life: youth, middle age and old age. I don't believe that a healthy minded person has to lose touch with one period to move into the next. Yes, it is hard for everyone to imagine what it will be like to be older (how many of us in 1970 used to think about the year 2000 and wonder if we'd be alive and functional at 35 or 40?). but, it seems just as hard for many people to remember what it was like to be 14. One of the most rewarding things that I see created in my relationships with people is that there are no age distinctions - experience distinctions yes, but people are people at every age and we all have to go through the days and years one at a time to arrive at today. Don't lose yesterday in the process. mike > From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:01 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:02:50 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Tapes, High Standards, and Educating Kids Message-ID: <74.ec2d16.25b8a7ca@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/20/00 6:18:04 AM Central Standard Time, eang18@pacific.net.sg writes: > I'm not totally disagreeable with Mr Steward's opinion; personally i feel > players who send in the tape should be committed or resonsible enough to > take time off seriously to listen to their tape and touch up on their music > if they are really seriously interested in getting into BSO. > > This indeed its not a test of just their techniques, skills and overall > performance. Its a show of their committment and earnest of music and the > righteous attitude of a musician. In this context and the context of its 2+2=5 corollary, I would like to (brag a little bit and also) report at least one place where good musical discipline is being taught. My daughter is a freshman at Lake Forest (Illinois) High School where she plays flute in freshman band and cello in orchestra (of which there is only one in the school). 1. Mark Taylor, the band director, reported to freshman band parents the evening of the autumn openhouse that some of the kids will feel the music is too simple. That mis-conception might arise, reported Mark, from the fact that he receives a batch of freshmen every autumn who are unusually well prepared (by a good system driven by a dynamite JHS band director) in playing the right notes. Mark now has the opportunity and the task of teaching them musicianship, and he wants to start doing so with selections that don't require the students to stretch to play the right notes. Intonation, dynamics, and phrasing for 14-year olds! I (almost) wish I could go back. 2. Mark also requires in person "playing tests" as well as a TAPE, which is what got me started on this. My daughter's evening of preparing her tape was a brutal two hours long (for about three minutes of tape), playing, listening, groaning, rolling her eyes, and playing again, to make each selection on the tape represent the best music she could possibly produce, to comply with an exacting list of instructions from Mark. If my daughter is ever required to submit a tape to earn an audition invitation, she will know what to do. She may not have the skills to win the invitation, but she won't make poor Doug and his colleagues puke by submitting some sloppy old thing. 3. Band challenges start this (second) semester. (Interlude: I hear that some parents have complained to the Principal that "Mr. Taylor is too hard." I don't know why they wrote the big checks for the expensive instruments, only to object to having a music educator try to do serious education in music). 4. Pat(rick) Pearson, the orchestra director, has optional auditions for his combined 9th - 12th grade orchestra, and EVERYBODY WHO AUDITIONS SITS AHEAD OF EVERYBODY WHO DOESN'T AUDITION. My daughter auditioned, and sits fourth chair out of about a million cellos (I think the actual count is 16). She thinks it's no big deal because "Some of the kids didn't audition." I know that it is a big deal, because she did audition, and got a lesson in playing her best under pressure and living with the results. Mike Bennett From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:02 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:04:55 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <001701bf6371$279fc6a0$669301d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To octavate or noctavate. That is the question. If a chart is well written, there is usually a good reason why the bass trombone notes are placed where they are. If a chart is badly written, dropping the bass trombone notes an octave is hardly going to improve it. But then, just once in a while, there is that magic moment where the bass trombone has a chance to shine, but the part hasn't been scored that way. It usually shouts out at you. You see a sfortzando coming up on a low A or G or F. You know its the root of the dominant chord. You take a quick peak at the 3rd trombone part. He has the same note as you. Right, go for it. Wham, it worked! Everyone looks round in approval. You feel good for spotting it. But, and this is a big but, you have to be sure it will work, or else you can expect the disapproval of your section leader and/or director. The effectiveness of super-pedals is in inverse proportion to the amount of their use. Keep dropping everything an octave and it becomes monotonous and boring. The same thing is true when you get the trumpet screamer going an octave higher. If he hasn't thought it out, or does it without taste, or does it too often, it doesn't mean a thing, except the guy's a dummy. Back to the bass trombone, and as Doug has already pointed out, there are cases for taking the part up. Your part is continually grovelling beneath the staff, even though there is a huge gap between the 3rd part and yours, or the section voicing is all squashed in below a low trumpet voicing, causing 3rds, 7ths & 9ths of the chord to be scored too low and too close to other intervals. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:02 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:16:00 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: audition tapes - let's make 'em better Message-ID: <200001201816.MAA08802@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The thread about audition tapes has been a very active one and before it is totally beaten to death I'd like to add something. I have no doubt that most people do not know how to or lack the equipment to make a good fidelity tape. One thing to consider is that it takes a certain amount of ability to hear what is really present in a bad recording. Think about it, we all have some recordings in our libraries that sound as if they were recorded from Mars, or underwater or on some bizarre substance other than metal particles adhered to plastic tape - I have some recording that sound like they were recorded on wool, or bacon!). Ralph Sauer released those excerpt CDs and though they display some truly wonderful trombone playing, the sound is anemic an rather uncharacteristic. The Chicago Symphony trombone and tuba section from 1970 released a record that contains fantastic playing but it sounds as if they were playing in Chicago but the recording engineer was in Pittsburgh! I don't even know how you get that kind of effect without severe filtering and artificial processing. At times it sounds like the Chicago Gnat Ensemble! Now does this mean that in hearing those recordings that those players were bad? Of course not. It does mean that we have to exercise a bit of intelligence and creative hearing to get to the music though. Shoudl we have to do this? No, not with todays technology, but we may have to in some situations anyway. Of course there are going to be bad players as well, lots of them, and even a brilliant recording engineer can't help them. This post is not about bad playing though. I propose that serious teachers, orchestral players and perhaps even the American Symphony Orchestra League make available examples of what are acceptable, excellent, and horrible recordings. There has been a lot of talk lately in the "music in schools" thread that suggests that we have no right to complain about the low quality of school music if we do nothing to contribute to making it better. The same is true with audition tapes. Some people are naturals at manipulating recording equipment, others have to learn, some will never get it. But, without instruction and examples being made available how can people learn? Doug Yeo has made suggestions on his web page and that is very commendable, but it will take more than one person to make a change. I don't currently have the time to create a web page with this info but I would love to give it a try in the near future. Lots of us have experience with recording and making tapes - let's see what we can do to create resources for folks who do not have the experience. You don't have to be in a major orchestra to know a good or bad recording when you hear one. It has been suggested recently that the OTJ make space for Trombone-l members to upload MP3s of their playing so we can all hear each other. That's a great idea, but why not also have a section that gives examples of good and bad recordings and discusses recording techniques for whose interested in submitting audition tapes? I think there is a lot we can do to make this situation better rather than complaining about being disturbed by bad recordings. Mike Coyle From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:02 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:40:21 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Preview - New Yeo CD mp3 files Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Many of you know I have a new solo CD in production which should be available in March. It is titled CORNERSTONE and information about it can be found at: http://www.yeodoug.com/cornerstone.html and http://www.yeodoug.com/cornerstonenotes.html or just click on the CORNERSTONE cover image on my home page. This album contains 16 tracks of arrangements of hymns and gospel songs, many of which were specially created for this recording. I utilized four different pianists with very unique keyboard skills and Bill Pearce, the legendary jazz/gospel trombonist and radio host of the nationally syndicated show "Nightsounds" has readings on several tracks. I have updated my mp3 files page to include some "sneak preview" clips from CORNERSTONE (and also the new New England Brass Band CD CHRISTMAS JOY! which I conduct, and on which I also play as soloist on Sandy Smith's arrangement of "Frosty the Snowman"). You can access all of my mp3 files at: http://www.yeodoug.com/yeomp3.html which now includes clips from my albums CORNERSTONE, PROCLAMATION, TAKE 1 and CHRISTMAS JOY! and an interview on the serpent I gave for the Canadian Broadcast Corporation. More files will follow as I have time to create and upload them. I'll be sure to let you know when CORNERSTONE is available as soon as it comes out of production. On a related subject: At 12:16 PM -0600 1/20/00, Mike Coyle wrote: >why not also have a section that gives examples of >good and bad recordings and discusses recording techniques for whose >interested in submitting audition tapes? I think there is a lot we can do >to make this situation better rather than complaining about being disturbed >by bad recordings. A good idea, indeed! And hopefully by next week, I will do my part to help the situation. I plan to post on my mp3 page the audition tape I made in April 1984 which was the only one of 54 tapes accepted by the Boston Symphony audition committee at that time (an additional 9 people were invited without having to submit tapes). The excerpts I recorded at that time include the Creation, Hary Janos, Zarathustra, William Tell, the Ride and more - 9 in all. As I listen to it now, there are obviously things I would do differently now, and the tape has suffered a little deterioration in the 16 years since it was made, but I hope posting the tape will generate some productive discussion on the subject of audition tapes since this tape actually was accepted at an audition and I ultimately won the position. I also am preparing to post some actual excerpts which were submitted to the Baltimore Symphony audition in April 1985. The personnel manager at the time, George Aranow (now deceased) gave me permission to tape several of the most outrageous tape submissions for use in masterclasses. I will post some of them and discuss how NOT to make an audition tape. Look for all of these excerpts on my mp3 page sometime in the next week or two. Enjoy! -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:03 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:00:32 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: making tapes and D. Yeo's webpage Message-ID: <200001201900.NAA13948@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I also am preparing to post some actual excerpts which were submitted >to the Baltimore Symphony audition in April 1985. The personnel >manager at the time, George Aranow (now deceased) gave me permission >to tape several of the most outrageous tape submissions for use in >masterclasses. I will post some of them and discuss how NOT to make >an audition tape. Look for all of these excerpts on my mp3 page >sometime in the next week or two. The work begins my friends. Now we have a place to start and I'm sure many others can contribute to this badly needed area of education. If we brainstorm and put a little work into it we have the opportunity to make a contribution that could literally change someone's world! Does anyone else out there have a good solid webpage with enough space to start up a project wherein we could submit examples, like Doug's, of good and bad tapes? There are so many different pieces of equipment out there and different users could give tips on using different equipment. I use all digital recording equipment for most of my stuff and only go analog at the last stage when putting it to tape if necessary. With the higher sampling rates now digital recording has equalled if not surpassed analog in clarity, depth and warmth in my opinion. However, many fine tapes can still be made using all analog equipment. Microphone selection and placement seems to be an area where much confusion lies and it can make or break a recording. Anyway, let's talk.... MC From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:32:17 EST From: Trmbman@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Harmon Mute? Message-ID: <86.3cb958.25b8bcc1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering how many people out there own a Harmon Mute for trombone? Due to the fact that the stem has direct metal to metal contact with the mute it loses some of the metal on the stem and becomes loose after a while. I was wondering if anyone knows any tricks to stop or slow this down to that is doesn't render the stem of the mute useless . Thank ahead of time. Trombone and Euphonium Player Visit my Webpage at Http://Wactrm.tripod.com or contact me at Trmbman@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:36:06 EST From: Trmbman@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Trombone Choir Music? Message-ID: <23.6e2131.25b8bda6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for a trombone choir piece. I am looking for grade Four or Three. It is for three talented high school seniors and talented underclassemen. I am looking for something rather challenging but not superdifficult. I am not looking for a piece with a Soprano or alto, due to the fact that we have neither , it would just be Tenor and bass trombones. Trombone and Euphonium Player Visit my Webpage at Http://Wactrm.tripod.com or contact me at Trmbman@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:58:27 EST From: Jgicking@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Slide cleaning - the "Doctor's" method Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From the "Slide Doctor" and included in our very own trombone.org new links, is the following, not to be missed. http://www.slidedr.com/ <> From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:11:51 -0500 From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Harmon Mute? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit T-man, The simplest way to keep a worn Harmon usable is to compress the stem's tubing a bit. Squeeze it between your hands or compress it against a hard object, like a desktop. With just a little bit of ovateness created, it will once again fit snugly. The trick is to apply the pressure gradually, lest you destroy the stem by squeezing it flat. (the Voice of Experience speaks....) Later, Chris http://www.geocities.com/~christo From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:04 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:25:04 -0500 From: james.c.shake@us.pwcglobal.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Playing standards (was "I was tortured") Message-ID: <8525686C.00703749.00@intlnamsmtp20.us.pw.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline One of the issues that has been alluded to has been the awareness of what level of playing is required (or lack thereof). The wisdom and experience of one's teacher (in addition to one's own sense of reality) can make a crucial difference in the awareness of what is required. I graduated from a major conservatory, but my first teacher there was wise and caring enough to bring me along slowly. He encouraged me, but also told me that I was still a "young" player. This gave me some confirmation of where I really stood. I had come in as a freshman with a big but fragile ego ( a decent-sized fish in a smaller pond). Yes, I was intimidated at first by the other players, but was encouraged by my teacher. I was able to recognize my strengths (musical interpretation and tone) and my weaknesses (technique and range) through his guidance. After he died, I faced a different teacher with a different teaching style (what worked best for him). His initial assessment that he communicated to me was more direct than I was ready for (I still had some symphonic aspirations), but it eventually spurred me on to work harder rather than just assume that a degree from this conservatory would get me a job. I even made an audition tape for a small part-time regional orchestra, but was not satisfied with it after hearing it and therefore did not submit it. It is very tempting to "go for it" when a position like the BSO utility TPT position is advertised nationally. It is part of the American Dream mentality that anybody can have a chance to hit it big in our land of opportunity (witness the popularity of lotteries). "What do I have to lose" is an attitude that is all too easy to adopt in the absense of a wise and caring teacher who can bring a student back to reality and further preparation. This "crucible" of college also prepared me for other challenges in my work life. Most areas of work life have standards that have to be met (licensing or not). I am an actuary by profession, which entailed taking numerous professional exams. I was competing against 400-500 other people or more nationally. The pass rates on some key exams were 25% or even lower. (Engineering and architecture exams can be even more brutal.) It didn't matter where I went to college or what grades I received when it came to taking the exam. I not only needed to know the material in my sleep (if I got any;-)), but also had to apply it under pressures of time and mental stress. If you think multiple choice tests are easy, think again for actuaries. You must perform multiple calculations very quickly while remembering all the exact formulas and exceptions. Gut instinct won't do it. ANY computational error will cause you to miss the question (no partial credits). One must complete the exam in about one-half the time one would normally expect. It is the same with any high level job such as playing in a major symphony orchestra. One must play flawlessly and musically under the highest of standards and stress (e.g. the first note of Beethoven's 5th Sym. for the first trombone after sitting out the first 3 movements - yes, I know there are more difficult entrances but that's one I've personally experienced professionally). Conductors can be very demanding. The Beethoven's 5th job was with the Northeast Penn. Phil., where several of us conservatory students travelled 3 hours each way to get to the rehearsal and performances. The flute player (good but not great) was dismissed after the rehearsal and told in front of others that her playing did not meet the conductor's standards (we had been hired at the last minute without audition). She had already shelled out union dues and initiation fees and was sobbing during the car ride back. What started out as something fun, financially rewarding, and ego-boosting became very sobering. Success in life requires hard work and perseverence. It also usually requires the assistance of others such as teachers. Find (or be) a knowledgeable and caring teacher - one that can relate well to others. ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:23:59 -0800 From: "Michael W. Millar & Dava S. Millar" To: yeo@yeodoug.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A good, simple rule for auditions Message-ID: <38876EDF.A725CCB@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent points, Doug. > When you make a tape or go to an audition, keep in mind what the > standard is. Many people who get cut in professional auditions go > away thinking, "Gee, that committee is crazy, after all, I'm first > chair in my college orchestra." Wrong standard. I am always emphatic on this point when I talk to college students. When they graduate, they will be competing with me and with other pros, not just their fellow students. I try to mix the harsh reality (It's ROUGH out there!) with a sense of hope (People who are committed to improving themselves every day and DON'T QUIT can accomplish amazing things.) > My goal as a teacher is to have the students teach themselves. > If I tell a student how to articulate a note, they learn how to do > it. If I help a student discover how to articulate a note, they > internalize it. My favorite--don't give them a fish, teach them to fish. I have modified my teaching style somewhat after studying---of all things--management. I was extremely fortunate to take 3 classes with Peter Drucker, the "father of modern management," who is 90 years old and just published his 30th book. His "Management by Objectives" (developed in the 1950's and widely used by managers) consists of (briefly): Setting goals Periodic assessment of performance (results) relative to the stated goals, with emphasis on strengths. After self assessment and feedback, setting of new or modified goals. The traditional procedure in a lesson is for the teacher to tell the student what he or she is doing wrong. With Drucker in mind, I frequently ask students to assess their own performance, beginning with their strengths--what they liked. Only after they have assessed themselves do I give them my input. I find that having students state their goals (as Doug does) and assess themselves is productive--gets them thinking and improves their self-awareness. Mike Millar From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:05 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:14:03 EST From: CaryMusic@aol.com To: yeo@yeodoug.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: They were despised for their inequities Message-ID: <6d.8d5611.25b8d49b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having just passed the Christmas Sing Along season ... All I've been able to think of with this long thread "I was tortured" is Handel. Could we improvise on this a little even though the trombone part in the Messiah is somewhat meager? Cary From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:39:25 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: They were despised for their inequities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Having just passed the Christmas Sing Along season ... All I've been > able to think of with this long thread "I was tortured" is Handel. > Could we improvise on this a little even though the trombone part > in the Messiah is somewhat meager? > > Cary > Improvise? What do you think we've been doing? Did any of us plan any of this? :-) =============== "He was despised, rejected. A Man of sorrow and acquainted with grief"--maybe not much of a trombone part, but certainly deeper suffering than even the most hideous audition tape. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:56:44 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "'8guion@jmls.edu'" <8guion@jmls.edu>, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: They were despised for their inequities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cary wrote: > > Having just passed the Christmas Sing Along season ... All I've been > > able to think of with this long thread "I was tortured" is Handel. > > Could we improvise on this a little even though the trombone part > > in the Messiah is somewhat meager? > > > > Cary > > > To which Dave replied: > Improvise? What do you think we've been doing? Did any of us plan any of > this? :-) > > =============== > > "He was despised, rejected. A Man of sorrow and acquainted with > grief"--maybe not much of a trombone part, but certainly deeper suffering > than even the most hideous audition tape. > > Amen! One of my favorite pieces of music is "The Trumpet Shall Sound", particularly with C. Steele-Perkins playing the natural trumpet. I wonder if his recordings would get him advanced to fourth trumpet? :-) Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:38:12 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Sorry, it just slipped out Message-ID: <38878E54.C54D8B0B@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Lindberg's great. His playing is excellent. But I love Big T. Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:06 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:33:07 -0600 From: "James Yardley" To: "Trombone-L forum." Subject: is there hope for me? Message-ID: <004001bf6396$5677cfc0$b48afea9@james> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF6364.087618E0"
Dear List,
 
    First of all, I would like to thank everyone for all the wonderful knowledge I've gained from sitting here at this poor excuse for a computer.  A lot of the posts I've read have been very inspirational for me.  Just to give a little background on myself, my name is James Yardley.  I live in Duluth, MN where I play Bass Trombone at my high school.  I am a senior this year, and I plan on continuing my study of music.  Right now, I am leaning towards Music Education.  What I would love to do, however, is play my Bass Trombone in a major symphony.  I feel like I'm a rope and "reality" and "my hopes and dreams" are playing tug of war with me.  As of now, I plan on attending UW-Eau Claire.  I have my audtion on Feb. 12th.  After reading the recent posts, I've realized how badly I actually want to be a performer, instead of band director.  I'm just hoping for a push in the right direction from a true professional out there.  I come from a not so wealthy family who can't afford to send me to a major music school.  And I don't own my own instrument yet.  I know that there are jobs out there for music teachers.  I spend the majority of my school day in the band room with my wonderful band director.  Here is what has been going through my head.  If I go to college, and get a degree in Music Education, I can get a job and live a comfortable life.  Or, I can risk it all, work my butt off, and HOPEFULLY audition into a good orchestra.  I WANT TO BE A PERFORMER.  But is this truly possible for a high school senior, going to UW-Eau Claire (actually a pretty good music school)?  I really need some words of inspiration from someone that may know what I'm going through.  Not that this makes any difference, but I did audition into the All-State Orchestra, and I've received a few awards at high school band festivals for my playing.  I'm not a child prodigy or anything, but I do have a good work ethic and it shows in my playing.  Please shed some light this situation for me!!!
 
James Yardley
Bass Trombone
 From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:44:15 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: rbegel@hotmail.com Subject: Useful College Trombonists' Handbook Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Now and then you come across a useful resource that shouts out "I'm important." I found one the other day and want to let you know about it. Rich Begel is currently pursuing his doctorate in trombone at the moment, and is a graduate of Crane School of Music Potsdam, NY )and New England Conservatory. Last semester, he filled in teaching at Crane for Mark Hartman who was on sabbatical. Rich was also a fellow at the Tanglewood Music Center in 1999. Rich has put out an incredibly concise, useful book which he calls, "College Trombonists' Handbook," Gathering on the experience hes gotten as a performer, student and teacher, he outlines, in a easy to read, concise, information filled set of chapters thoughts on getting the most out of your lessons, and outline for practicing, breathing, technique building, auditions, self-exploration, etc. This not a long book - 21 pages to exact - but don't be put off by the size. In this case, big things come in small packages. There is MUCH in here that will provoke thought and be very helpful. I just bought 5 copies for my students and gave each a copy at their lessons this week. I'm sure it will be helpful to them. Rich is selling the book himself for $10.00 (including shipping). If you're interested, make a check out to him at: Rich Begel 1820 Hamilton Rd, Apt. G-13 Okemos, MI 48864 or email him for more info at: rbegel@hotmail.com Clear expression, useful information, and plenty to think about for a few bucks. A good investment in my mind. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:07 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:11:30 EST From: NHSGrizzly16@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ONLY a senior? and self esteem... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the only reason i say i'm "only a high school sophomore" is because here, sophomores aren't expected to be great because the juniors and seniors (and other older people) have more experience than them (in most cases). besides, i feel better making 1st, 2nd at all state band (my best friend is 1st), and knowing that i still have two more years to accomplish my goal (of being 1st). i set extremely high standards for myself...i try my hardest to excel at playing all of my instruments. and what about elders?? part of the reason i say "i'm only a high school sophomore" is because too many adults and friends say that to me... From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:08 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:18:19 EST From: NHSGrizzly16@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: youth and old age (was: I was tortured....) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kids are better than you think.....almost everyone i know loves and respects our teachers......especially band directors. our directors (4 of them) are like my family. we do everything together. we love each other to death. but, kids aren't the only ones who don't "respect" other people..... From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:08 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:17:18 -0600 From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Philip Jones story Message-ID: <024601bf63a4$fa43d8c0$62c022c8@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I saw the Philip Jones ensemble back in 1980 in Waco, Texas. They played most of the tunes from the Renaissance Brass album, they were killer. After the show I went backstage to meet the guys and get them to autograph my "Pictures" album, they were all really nice. While I was getting Ray Premru«s signature the horn player, Ifor James began playing for a little girl from the audience. He had unscrewed his bell, stuck a mute in it and blew while Philip moved the second valve as fast as he could. Out came Flight of the Bumblebee! Unforgettable! David Pozos Primer Tromb—n Orquesta Sinf—nica de Xalapa From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:08 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:25:02 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: yardleys@prodigy.net, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: is there hope for me? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 4:33 PM -0600 1/20/00, James Yardley wrote: >If I go to college, and get a degree in Music Education, I can get a >job and live a comfortable life. Or, I can risk it all, work my >butt off, and HOPEFULLY audition into a good orchestra. I WANT TO >BE A PERFORMER. But is this truly possible for a high school >senior, going to UW-Eau Claire (actually a pretty good music school)? Nearly every performer in music was a high school senior at one time or another. You've read all the recent posts on standards of playing. I assume you know where you are. My advice, then? Follow your dream. Somebody has to do it, why not you? Don't major in education unless you WANT to be a teacher - we have too many people teaching in schools who hate being there and are doing it as a "fall back" position to collect a paycheck. When you have kids of your own you'll understand how important it is to know that the teacher in the classroom WANTS to be there. Plenty of performers didn't go to the "best" schools (for instance I didn't go to Juilliard or Manhattan or Eastman and never played in a summer music festival like Tanglewood or Aspen). Follow Edward Kleinhammer's sage advice: "World class trombone players do not just happen. Their talents are forged in the dual furnaces of diligence and determination." Get the fire in your belly. Move beyond "liking music" to "understanding music." Experience life. Bring life to your music. Work hard, sleep well, eat right, be kind, share. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:08 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:10:02 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: is there hope for me? Message-ID: <20000121011002.42997.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>If I go to college, and get a degree in Music Education, I can get a >>job and live a comfortable life. Or, I can risk it all, work my >>butt off, and HOPEFULLY audition into a good orchestra. I WANT TO >>BE A PERFORMER. But is this truly possible for a high school >>senior, going to UW-Eau Claire (actually a pretty good music school)? There's something very special about following your dream. All of a sudden your life takes on a focus that transends yuppy "needs". Nothing but your art seems to matter. Now, I do recommend that you keep your life in balance. Deny yourself sleep and it will catch up with you. Deny yourself food and it will turn around and strike back. But you will find that what is considered normal, in our society, is far from what you need to keep working towards a goals. Then there's the other wonderful thing about pursuing your goals. You will develop skills in the pursuit of excelence. Believe me, those skills are transferrable. If, down the line, you decide to get into a more steady line of work, you'll have what it takes to develop skills and what it takes to enjoy the developmnent of those skills. For me it was electrical engineering and I soon had a reputation for being a leading edge R&D guy. Frankly, somethings electrical engineering is as hard as chess, but most of the time it's checkers. It pays well and it's another fun game. At night I terrorize the neighborhood, playing trombone and English horn in the garage. So, my vote (as if I get a vote) is that you should pursue your goal of being a pro musician. But I want to warn you that you need to also follow the money. I used to play gigs up in the Catskills, weekends, when I was in high schooll, for example. They didn't want good rock and they didn't want good jazz...just that stuff that's easy for old folk to listen to (not quite elevator). It was money and it kept me practicing, though. Got to get back to work. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:09 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:09:56 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: For Sale Conn bass slide Message-ID: <20.10c166f.25b90be4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For sale: Conn bass trombone handslide in near mint condition, fits either Conn 110H or 112H and some older models. Lightweight, fast and smooth action. Price $500 US plus shipping. Matt Varho bass trombonist Aliso Viejo Symphony From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:09 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:13:37 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: For Sale: Bach 50 handslide Message-ID: <16.a81a32.25b90cc1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bach bass trombone slide for model 50, regular weight, .562 bore size. Good condition, newly replaced inside tubes. Price $500 US, plus shipping. Matt Varho bass trombonist Aliso Viejo Symphony From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:09 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:29:53 PST From: "Phillip Larson" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Trombones for High School Message-ID: <20000121012953.45468.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi, my band director is interested in buying a new trombone for our program. He's interested in using it for the lead chairs in the jazz ensembles. He also wants it to be a nice one, but one that will last a while. Do you have any suggestions? -Phil ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:09 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:30:56 EST From: AlRobnett@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: making tapes and D. Yeo's webpage Message-ID: <51.5dcc96.25b910d0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/00 1:01:26 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: << There are so many different pieces of equipment out there and different users could give tips on using different equipment. I use all digital recording equipment for most of my stuff and only go analog at the last stage when putting it to tape if necessary. With the higher sampling rates now digital recording has equaled if not surpassed analog in clarity, depth and warmth in my opinion. >> I have both a profound ignorance on, and a great interest in the subject of digital recording. I am not likely to be making an audition tape, but I would like to be able to lay down multiple tracks, using my computer. I suspect that there are two principal problems: The memory requirements (at least for an mp3 file) appear to be in the neighborhood of 1MB per minute, and It has probably been more economical to find a secondhand 4-track recorder. I also suspect that technological advances will soon overcome both of those problems, if it hasn't already happened. Can anyone tell a rank amateur how to go about learning more about this question? Allen From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:09 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:25:10 EST From: JennWhaa@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Random question Message-ID: <1f.6a413e.25b91d86@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. This may seem like a random question but.... Does anyone know of any great trombonists in Australia? I never hear much about "down under". Jen From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:10 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:32:50 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: yardleys@prodigy.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: is there hope for me? Message-ID: <200001210233.VAA25681@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 04:33 PM 1/20/00 -0600, you wrote: > > Dear List, > Ê > ÊÊÊ First of all, I would like to thank everyone for all the wonderful > knowledge I've gained from sitting here at this poor excuse for a computer.Ê > A lot of the posts I've read have been very inspirational for me.Ê Just to > give a little background on myself, my name is James Yardley.Ê I live in > Duluth, MN where I play Bass Trombone at my high school.Ê I am a senior this > year, and I plan on continuing my study of music.Ê Right now, I am leaning > towards Music Education.Ê What I would love to do, however, is play my Bass > Trombone in a major symphony.Ê I feel like I'm a rope and "reality" and "my > hopes and dreams" are playing tug of war with me. ======================================= James... Go for it. If that's what you WANT to do, DO it. If you just "settle" for a teaching gig, you're liable never to be a good or happy teacher, and you'll never know if you could have fulfilled your dreams. If, on the other hand, you DO attempt to be an orchestral bass trombonist, and somewhere along the way decide that you just are never going to be able to play well enough, or the dues you have to pay are just too great...you can always go back to school and get an education degree. ============================ > > As of now, I plan on attending UW-Eau Claire.Ê I have my audtion on Feb. > 12th.Ê After reading the recent posts, I've realized how badly I actually > want to be a performer, instead of band director.Ê I'm just hoping for a push > in the right direction from a true professional out there.Ê I come from a not > so wealthy family who can't afford to send me to a major music school.Ê And I > don't own my own instrument yet.Ê I know that there are jobs out there for > music teachers.Ê I spend the majority of my school day in the band room with > my wonderful band director.Ê Here is what has been going through my head.Ê If > I go to college, and get a degree in Music Education, I can get a job and > live a comfortable life.Ê Or, I can risk it all, work my butt off, and > HOPEFULLY audition into a good orchestra.Ê I WANT TO BE A PERFORMER.Ê But is > this truly possible for a high school senior, going to UW-Eau Claire > (actually a pretty good music school)?Ê ========================= We were ALL high school seniors, and we didn't all go to Juilliard. (Plus, I know a bunch of people who DID go to big time music schools who are just average players...some even less than average.) ====================== > > I really need some words of inspiration from someone that may know what I'm > going through.Ê Not that this makes any difference, but I did audition into > the All-State Orchestra, and I've received a few awards at high school band > festivals for my playing.Ê I'm not a child prodigy or anything, but I do have > a good work ethic and it shows in my playing.Ê Please shed some light this > situation for me!!! > Ê > James Yardley > Bass Trombone ============================= Try. S. From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:10 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:51:59 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: nick@hudson66.freeserve.co.uk, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Help!! Dark Eyes Message-ID: <4.1.20000120194228.020a4a20@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nick and List - (Nick was searching for Dark Eyes info for a solo trombone album) I did some searching for info on "Dark Eyes" and my mother (a librarian BTW) found it in her old high school glee cub book from the 1940's. Dark Eyes by A. Salami copyright 1932 Leo Feist, Inc. NY, NY. The lyrics: Dark eyes that shine, I once thought were mine Just for Auld Lang Syne, please come some time To your balcony and look down at me Bring back paradise, Dear dark eyes. Jack Teagarden recorded it on film during his Snader Telescription (short movies for TV) sessions in 1952. >Way back At 08:17 PM on 12/1/99 +0000, Nick Hudson wrote: > > Hello all, > > I wonder if any of you guys can help me out? I'm getting together some sleeve > notes for my latest solo recording and need to find some details about 'Dark > Eyes' (composer/dates/interesting info etc....) > > It seems a very popular melody but know one seems to know much about it! > > Thanks to you all in advance. > > Kindest regards and best wishes > > Nick Hudson > > The Nick Hudson Web Site > www.hudson66.freeserve.co.uk > From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:10 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:59:03 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: is there hope for me? Message-ID: <009f01bf63bb$7b540000$b41d0f3f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009C_01BF6389.2EE39780"
CAUTION:  The following is an attempt at humor.  All those taking themselves too seriously should delete.
 
AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!  ANOTHER BASS TROMBONIST!  No, there is probably no hope for you.  Does anyone play tenor anymore?  Or is the list just full of bassboners because the tenors are out playing gigs?
 
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
 
Ken Dowdy
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: James Yardley <yardleys@prodigy.net>
To: Trombones and related issues forum. <trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 4:41 PM
Subject: is there hope for me?

Dear List,
 
    First of all, I would like to thank everyone for all the wonderful knowledge I've gained from sitting here at this poor excuse for a computer.  A lot of the posts I've read have been very inspirational for me.  Just to give a little background on myself, my name is James Yardley.  I live in Duluth, MN where I play Bass Trombone at my high school.  I am a senior this year, and I plan on continuing my study of music.  Right now, I am leaning towards Music Education.  What I would love to do, however, is play my Bass Trombone in a major symphony.  I feel like I'm a rope and "reality" and "my hopes and dreams" are playing tug of war with me.  As of now, I plan on attending UW-Eau Claire.  I have my audtion on Feb. 12th.  After reading the recent posts, I've realized how badly I actually want to be a performer, instead of band director.  I'm just hoping for a push in the right direction from a true professional out there.  I come from a not so wealthy family who can't afford to send me to a major music school.  And I don't own my own instrument yet.  I know that there are jobs out there for music teachers.  I spend the majority of my school day in the band room with my wonderful band director.  Here is what has been going through my head.  If I go to college, and get a degree in Music Education, I can get a job and live a comfortable life.  Or, I can risk it all, work my butt off, and HOPEFULLY audition into a good orchestra.  I WANT TO BE A PERFORMER.  But is this truly possible for a high school senior, going to UW-Eau Claire (actually a pretty good music school)?  I really need some words of inspiration from someone that may know what I'm going through.  Not that this makes any difference, but I did audition into the All-State Orchestra, and I've received a few awards at high school band festivals for my playing.  I'm not a child prodigy or anything, but I do have a good work ethic and it shows in my playing.  Please shed some light this situation for me!!!
 
James Yardley
Bass Trombone
 From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:12 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:56:14 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: LIST ABUSE Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List members: It has been brought to my attention that some list members have been once again receiving abusive e-mails off the list referencing their posts on the trombone-l. If you receive one of these messages, please do two things. First, do not reply to the messages. Ignore them, just as you would a heckler at a gig. Second, forward the entire message (including the full headers - if you need assistance with this, please contact me for information) to tsks@cjnetworks.com. The hidden header information will provide the data necessary to "unmask" the individual in question. With the full header information, there is a strong possibility of having the individual's account revoked by either the e-mail provider or his true ISP. There has been another outbreak of list-related abuse, and as of Wednesday, 19 January, 2000, the list member responsible was permanently unsubscribed from his current account. There is no doubt that the individual in question was the same individual who has used many different pseudonyms over the past several years to cause problems on the trombone-l. The challenge is that changing identities on the Internet a very simple act. A new AOL screen name can be created in under five minutes with no account change. Should these abuses continue, we may be forced to further qualify individuals prior to list membership. The entire objective is to keep the list a free and open forum, where members can post their opinions without fear of abuse. LM From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:12 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:59:01 -0600 From: "Brian Frederiksen" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Random question Message-ID: <00ff01bf63bb$793342e0$9a90fea9@hp500> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Mulchey from the Chicago Symphony. He sure didn't get his funny accent from the south side of Chicago! Brian Frederiksen WindSong Press PO Box 146 Gurnee, Illinois 60031 Phone 847 223-4586 Fax 847 223-4580 brianf@windsongpress.com www.windsongpress.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:25 PM Subject: Random question > > Hi. This may seem like a random question but.... > > Does anyone know of any great trombonists in Australia? > > I never hear much about "down under". > > > Jen > From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:22:59 -0600 From: "John Grubbs" To: Subject: Bach Thayer Message-ID: <001801bf63be$d21e4b40$9fa8cbd8@bethremote> Is it true the Bach does not make the model 42T? It a strad with a Thayer valve. a friend of mine said she heard something about that they stopped making them. I was just wondering if anyone knew for sure Thanks, John From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:34:16 EST From: NHSGrizzly16@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Trombones for High School Message-ID: <1d.698a38.25b92db8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a really good horn is a Conn 88H....it's a wonderful horn. will last long if you take good care of it. i love mine :o) From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:29:01 -0600 From: "Edwin Miller" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me... Message-ID: <002a01bf63bf$ac5d9220$0201a8c0@XPSR400> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This audition thread has been very entertaining and thought provoking. I haven't read everything that's been in this thread so apologies if these are repeats. I have conflicting thoughts about this issue. I support Doug's quest (demand?) for excellence but I think it is unrealistic to think that one can avoid mediocrity even in the BSO. I remember John Marcellus' "party tape" of trombone auditions from when I was at Eastman. We had some big laughs but was that really a cool thing to do? We owe mediocrity a better response than snobbery and ridicule. What we are really saying is "Whew, at least I'm not that bad!" But this is just a matter of perspective, because as lowly Eastman undergrads we _were_ that bad compared with players in the BSO. We must do more to help others elevate themselves. The people I admire most are inclusive not exclusive. More random thoughts... 1. To help people more realistically evaluate their tapes, create a barrier to entry. Elite symphony orchestras should require a $50 (or more?) check with each tape. People will waste others' time for free before they will waste their own money. At the end of the audition, split the sum amongst the committee members so they can pay for therapy/massages/beer/bullets or whatever helps them feel better about the perceived lost time. 2. Understanding the level of a standard is a major prerequisite to achieving it and may be the hardest part. Most people don't get it. But lack of skill is a problem in every profession. Audition committees are not the only ones who have wasted a day listening to people who should never have responded to a help wanted ad. I have a day gig as a VP of information systems (computer geeks) and I have interviewed people with computer science degrees for programming jobs who don't know the difference between RAM and disk space. 3. Every job, including playing in a major symphony, includes unpleasant or not-so-glamorous tasks. I'm not shedding any tears over a day lost to audition tapes that were not up to the standards of the BSO. The audition process is flawed in many ways (and is unpleasant for just about everyone on both sides of the fence) but it's in the job description. At least the committee gets compensated. So it is probably more healthy to drop the wasted time issue and chalk it up to a day's work. Fretting over the lack of standards in the world is definitely a lost cause. What is not a lost cause is trying to effect a change for the better in one's sphere of influence and that is what Doug is trying to do. From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:44:17 -0600 From: daboneman To: biokill@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Trombones for High School Message-ID: <3887D611.7C2F7B74@mciworld.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I would personally reccommend the King Silversonic 2103 (previously the 3B). I just tried out all of the "jazz" trombones at the International Association of Jazz Educators Conference in New Orleans and this one was far and above the best of what was there. All of the major manufacturers were present. Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area Phillip Larson wrote: > Hi, my band director is interested in buying a new trombone for our program. > He's interested in using it for the lead chairs in the jazz ensembles. He > also wants it to be a nice one, but one that will last a while. Do you have > any suggestions? > > -Phil > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:34:36 -0500 From: "Daron K. Bilyeu" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: I'm Back and Lower! Message-ID: <3887D3CC.B47AB883@coral.indstate.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone on the trombone-l After taking some time off, I'm back to on the list. I hope to contribute often, but my schedule may tighten up soon. Anyway, the bass guys on the list will be happy to know that this semester I have officially made the switch. I've been flirting with this for two years, but now, I am majoring in bass trombone performance and Music History. It's great to be where I belong! Daron -- "Sin cannot be undone, only forgiven." - Igor Stravinsky -- Daron K. Bilyeu Music History/Literature, Music Performance Major--Indiana State University Gamma Omega Chapter--Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia--Fall 1997 bilyeud@coral.indstate.edu ICQ 6962553 -- I will sing and make music with all my soul--Psalm 108:1b From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:08:54 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Phil Smith Message-ID: <71.60db8e.25b935d6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends, I am the President of the Student Government Association at the Boston Conservatory. One of my many tasks is to provide the students with quality masterclasses with which to be involved. This year there has been a request for NY Phil principal trumpet Phil Smith. If anyone out there in trombone land might know how I could go about contacting him, it would be duly appreciated. Thanks, Wesley Hopper trombone content: I play trombone - poorly, but still ;-) From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:15 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:36:03 -0500 From: "David S Staines" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Virtual Lessons Message-ID: <000101bf63c9$4ab649e0$229b9cd1@staines1> Just a thought... With today's technology, I was thinking that taking virtual lesson would be a unique way to put busy trombone students in touch with busy trombone teachers. A virtual lesson would involve a student preparing a wav or MP3 file to be emailed to his or her teacher. The file is critiqued by the teacher, and written comments returned to the student, along with the next assignment, and maybe a demonstration MP3 or wav file done by the teacher. There could be other exchanges to create a useful long distance learning experience. I am not suggesting this path for the serious student, the ones pursuing music as a career. But maybe for the weekend warrior, it would be a nice way to squeeze a lesson in. Any comments for or agin? David Staines 2nd Trombone Bufalo Silver Band From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:16 2000 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:15:27 +0930 From: "Nicholas Peter Hayes" To: "Trombone List" , Subject: Re: Random question Message-ID: <008a01bf63ca$e1e52e20$71058ec6@moebius> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Straight off the top of my head.....guys I have heard whose playing I like... Mike Mulcahy (been in Chicago USA for a while), Simone de Haan (a huge talent, and a big warm bear of a man who is devoted to promoting music and trombone music in particular. Heard him do the BEST version of Berio Sequenza V as impromptu entertainment for some primary school kids, I liked it better than C Lindberg's concert performance of the same, no disrespect to Mr L as his was a fine and inspiring performance). Warwick Tyrrell (faultless technique, recorded on ABC records, had a stint as principal of London S.O) If you like jazz/contemporary... James Greening (Ten Part Invention, Directions in Groove, The Catholics, Monica and the Continental Delis, uses all the colours of the instrument from tailgate to cool to roaringly fast.) James Morrison (hundreds of recordings in Australia, now on his own label. USA recordings with the Philip Morris band at Carnegie Hall, but not a real showcase for him. Fun and fast). My 0.02 worth, (but then again it is like a trombonist from Anchorage commenting on the New York scene!) The sad part is that if you are a truly talented Australian player, you would probably pursue your career elsewhere. This is a country of a little under 30 million people on a land mass almost as big as North America. There are not more than a dozen professional orchestras in Australia. The REALLY good artists would seek their fortunes in the bigger ponds of Europe and North America. Any Aussies agree/disagree? Nicholas Hayes (Amateur) Trombonist, Darwin Symphony Orchestra. Northern Territory, Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 11:55 AM Subject: Random question > > Hi. This may seem like a random question but.... > > Does anyone know of any great trombonists in Australia? > > I never hear much about "down under". > > > Jen > From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:16 2000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:11:01 -0700 (MST) From: aceftd@aztec.asu.edu (FRANK T. DARMIENTO) To: Trombone-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Philip Jones' death Message-ID: <200001210511.WAA18924@aztec2.asu.edu> > >I heard a story on NPR that in 1986 Jones was backing out of his driveway >and accidentally drove over his trumpet and he went into retirement shortly >after that. Can anyone out there substantiate that? > I picked this up from my AOL news service. ============================== British Musician Philip Jones Dies LONDON (AP) - Philip Jones, who held the top trumpet position in six London orchestras and formed a brass ensemble that played for audiences worldwide, has died, British newspapers reported Wednesday. He was 71. He died Monday, the newspapers said. No cause or location of death was given. Jones, who came from a family of trumpeters, was determined to prove that brass instruments could hold center stage and captivate an audience. He created the Philip Jones Brass Ensemble and led the group on tours of more than 30 countries. The ensemble made 50 recordings and performed 87 world premieres, The Guardian reported. Born on March 12, 1928, in Bath, England, Jones developed his musical skills early. In 1944, he won a scholarship to the Royal College of Music. He played for the Royal Philharmonic from 1956-60, the Philharmonia from 1960-64, the London Philharmonic from 1964-65, the New Philharmonia from 1965-67 and the British Broadcasting Corp. Symphony Orchestra from 1960-71. Jones formed his brass ensemble in 1951 as a quartet. The group added a fifth member in 1961, and as the number of engagements grew so did the size. By 1970, the band consisted of 10 players. They performed throughout Europe, the United States, Asia and Australia. Despite his success, Jones remained meticulous about the smallest details, The Guardian said. While the other musicians enjoyed a pre-concert meal, he would be alone on stage, carefuly positioning everyone's music and lining up the stands, the newspaper said. Jones retired in 1986, coming to his decision after he drove over his own trumpet case and crushed it, The Times said. In retirement, he devoted his time to teaching and charity. Jones accepted a position at Trinity College of Music that he held until 1994. He also worked on a musicians' charity fund, acting as chairman in 1995. In 1977, Jones was awarded an OBE, or Order of the British Empire. In 1986, he was given the higher honor of a CBE, or Commander of the Order of British Empire. Jones is survived by his wife, Ursula Strebi. Funeral arrangements were not immediately available. -- Frank T. Darmiento (e-mail: aceftd@aztec.asu.edu) Scottsdale, Arizona From ???@??? Fri Jan 21 14:52:16 2000 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Edwin Miller Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Edwin Miller wrote: > This audition thread has been very entertaining and thought provoking. I > haven't read everything that's been in this thread so apologies if these are > repeats. > > I have conflicting thoughts about this issue. I support Doug's quest > (demand?) for excellence but I think it is unrealistic to think that one can > avoid mediocrity even in the BSO. I remember John Marcellus' "party tape" > of trombone auditions from when I was at Eastman. We had some big laughs > but was that really a cool thing to do? We owe mediocrity a better response > than snobbery and ridicule. What we are really saying is "Whew, at least > I'm not that bad!" But this is just a matter of perspective, because as > lowly Eastman undergrads we _were_ that bad compared with players in the > BSO. We must do more to help others elevate themselves. The people I > admire most are inclusive not exclusive. > > More random thoughts... > > 1. To help people more realistically evaluate their tapes, create a barrier > to entry. Elite symphony orchestras should require a $50 (or more?) check > with each tape. People will waste others' time for free before they will > waste their own money. At the end of the audition, split the sum amongst > the committee members so they can pay for therapy/massages/beer/bullets or > whatever helps them feel better about the perceived lost time. This is already happening in the music schools...when I was applying to colleges last year the highest fee among conservatories just to get an audition time (or send a tape, if applicable) was around $90, the lowest $65. One did not even guarantee to allow a student to audition at all (and I don't think they did refunds). Since a year has past the prices have probably gone up even more. As if it's not bad enough (or proof enough for wanting to get in) having to buy two plane tickets for both the student and a legal guardian plus hotel accomodations...perhaps an 'insider' re: conservatory audition procedures could let us know whether this 'barrier' really helps the applicant pool's quality level. No more ranting for me tonight...(bac