TROMBONE-L Digest 1574 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Great place to buy CD's by "James Yardley" 2) Sousa scores (and pitches and shoots trap and rides horses and boxes bare knuckle...) by "Tom C. Shaddox" 3) Re: Big Fish scores by MBennetts@aol.com 4) Re: Big Fish scores by Mike Coyle 5) Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by "Adrian Drover" 6) watch it Adrian! by Charles 7) Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by PAUL LUKAS 8) Cases by "Larry Zalkind" 9) RE: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 10) trombone-l by "Richards" 11) Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by David Buckley 12) Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by "Gary D. Maxwell @ Sequoia Middle School" 13) Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by MBennetts@aol.com 14) WindSong Press? by "Johnson, Scott (TBS)" 15) Leadership Institute: Jazz and Libraries #2 by Angie Brunk 16) Gurrelieder in Philly by Stephen Troy 17) RE: trombone-l (removable f-trigger) by "Hugo García Sampedro" 18) Help needed by TonyC789@aol.com 19) Re: Do you polish your trombone?? by Jeff Hettling 20) re: Yamaha Bass trombone models by "John Palmer" 21) Re: WindSong Press? by "Brian Frederiksen" 22) Octave jumping by David Proctor 23) Re: Octave jumping by "Kenneth Dowdy" 24) Re: Octave jumping by Mike Coyle 25) Re: Octave jumping by "Gary Maxwell" 26) Re: Octave jumping by Chris Waage 27) Re: Octave jumping by Earl Needham 28) Re: Octave jumping by "Edwin Miller" 29) Re: Octave jumping by "Tom Izzo" 30) Re: trombone-l by "Aaron Roth" 31) Re: Octave jumping by Douglas Yeo 32) Re: Octave jumping by "Aaron Roth" 33) Re: Octave jumping by "Joe L. Norcross" 34) Re: Gurrelieder in Philly by " Dan Cloutier" 35) Re: Octave jumping by Budshcneider@aol.com 36) Re: Gurrelieder in Philly by "Tom Izzo" 37) Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! by Larry White 38) Octave jumping by Charles 39) Re: Octave jumping by Bodie Pfost From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:56 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:02:05 -0600 From: "James Yardley" To: "Trombone-L forum." Subject: Great place to buy CD's Message-ID: <000a01bf61b4$394b31a0$b48afea9@james> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF6181.ED8BC9A0"
Dear Trombonists,
 
    I came upon a great web site yesterday, and I thought there might be some of you out there that would like to know about it.  TheMusicResource.com is one of the best places to get CD's.  They have very very low prices.  And they pretty much have every CD that you could ever want too.  I even found Michael Davis' cd Bonetown.  Slide Hampton CD's were $8 or $9.  Ofcourse there is shipping, but that's only about $2.  That's still only about $10 for a Slide Hampton CD.  As a musician, I understand how important listening is, and I'm sure you do to.  And as a poor teenager, soon to be poor college student, I was amazed at this website.  If anyone knows of a website that offers lower prices than this one, PLEASE let me know.  I hope someone benefits from my latest music related discovery on the internet, I know I will.
 
James Yardley
Bass Trombone
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:56 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:22:47 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Sousa scores (and pitches and shoots trap and rides horses and boxes bare knuckle...) Message-ID: <38849357.7830AEC4@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike wrote in part: >I have never seen one of Sousa's march scores ... I'd like to look >at some of the scores to see how he handled these things.... I figured >it was a good idea to study the works of a master instead of >reinventing the wheel. Mike, I'm no Sousa scholar, and stop me if you've already heard this, but his scores and parts tell only part of the story. I understand that he would pass out pretty clean parts and then _tell_ his players how he wanted it played. He also used about twice as many clarinets as your typical band. The instruments have changed, too. For instance, his brass line was cornets and small, straight tenor trombones (lead trombonist Pryor played a particularly small instrument.) Even if you put notes on paper just like Sousa, it will sound different played by a modern band. You probably know all that. I have really enjoyed the Dallas Wind Symphony's Sousa march CD. While they used modern instrumentation, the dynamics and tempi chosen by conductor Junkin really make this music come to life in comparison to the typical school band treatment. It's fresh, exciting, even passionate - good job by all involved. And who can forget (or overlook!) trombonist Bob Burnham's FFF blastoff 37 seconds into "Manhattan Beach"? A couple of the DWS woodwinds told me that was the single most memorable moment in the recording session, even more so than the first time they rung the "liberty bell"! Oh, and if in your study of these scores you find out just what it was that the Sousa Band's bass trombonist did, let me know. He's on the roster; he's in the pictures - I just haven't found him in the music. I gotta go practice, Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:56 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:37:56 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Big Fish scores Message-ID: <76.10799ce.25b5fef4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/17/2000 11:22:42 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: > The doctor says I should be playing again in no time, the fish however will > not recover (from suffocating or from my angry punt). He is currently hard > as a rock in our freezer :) I urge you to release the doctor from the freezer immediately. Mike Bennett -------- Patient: Doc, will I be able to play trombone after this fishing injury heals? Doctor: Absolutely! No reason why not! Patient: That's great - I've always wanted to play the trombone! From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:49:42 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: MBennetts@aol.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Big Fish scores Message-ID: <200001181749.LAA03099@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> The doctor says I should be playing again in no time, the fish however will >> not recover (from suffocating or from my angry punt). He is currently hard >> as a rock in our freezer :) > >I urge you to release the doctor from the freezer immediately. > >Mike Bennett >-------- >Patient: Doc, will I be able to play trombone after this fishing injury >heals? >Doctor: Absolutely! No reason why not! >Patient: That's great - I've always wanted to play the trombone! It's a list full of comedians :) You guys are killin' me. And people think low brass players are all beer guzzlin' music jocks with nothing but volume (and lots of time) on our hands! Wrong, we're FUNNY beer guzzlin' music jocks with nothing but volume (and lots of time) on our hands :) MC From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:46:31 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: <001d01bf61de$4d06f9c0$6fad01d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 4:08 AM Subject: Regarding the List Monitor > Over the past few days, the list monitor has been the target of several > abusive e-mails from individuals on the list. It saddens me deeply to read messages such as this, and gladdens me in turn to read messages of support for the otherwise thankless task that confronts the LM. The trom-l is a huge one, with members from all walks of life and all corners of the planet. It consists of top-line professional musicians, amateur musicians, would-be and wanna-be trombonists, doctors, dental surgeons, lawyers, journalists, librarians, aviators, engineers, composers, arrangers, acousticians, instrument designers, teachers, students, sages, philosophers, academics and comedians (and who have I missed out?). All these people have a common interest; the trombone. There is a wealth of knowledge, reference, interest and humour to be sought on the trom-l, and it is all for free. What more could anyone want, and where else could anyone find all this? It seems that there is a tiny minority who think that the list was created solely for their convenience. They believe that if the input is not 100% serious trombone-talk, to their satisfaction alone, they should not have to see it, and they are capable of letting contributors of such material know in a most vicious way. I know. I and many others have been on the receiving end of their hate mail. I set up filters long ago to send this electronic venom straight to the shredder. I would suggest that anyone who does not like the content of a particular author's posts should do the same, and that includes mine. Believe me, I don't want my messages sitting on a hostile terminal. There are occasional threads that bore the pants off me. That does not give me the right to dictate what should be sent to the list. There are occasional messages that I do not agree with. That does not give me the right to send abusive or hostile replies. It is doubly worse when the LM becomes the recipient of these malicious attacks. I feel that some of my contributions may be responsible for the LM's plight. I sincerely hope that this is not the case. I would not have responded to all the invitations I received to re-sub after my long absence if I thought this might happen. I tend to see the funny side of life. It keeps me sane. This side of my character tends to reveal itself in my posts. On TV recently, I heard a learned gentleman debating whether the new millennium would find the human race being controlled by robots. He concluded that "Humans will always be in control. Robots can't tell jokes". The trom-l has brought me into contact with new friends, and there are many other listers that I have not yet met and probably never will, yet though some are half a planet away, I feel that I know them just as well as my closest family, neighbours and colleagues. Thank you Mr. List Creator and thank you Mr. List Monitor. You are both providing the international trombone community with a priceless and unparalleled service! A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:17:47 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: watch it Adrian! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000118171747.0069fe9c@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You are becoming almost as erudite and sensible as Doug Yeo! Charlie From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:28:45 -0600 From: PAUL LUKAS To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: <3884B0DD.84221DA0@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, Adrian...I believe that the great majority of list members share your comments. I most definitely do! Our director announced last night that, for the 2000 season, the band would be playing a new Sousa march. I can attest that there was a huge gasp from the trombone section as we realized that J.P. must have risen from the dead and begun composing again. Will the new millennium wonders never cease???!!! -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:49:04 -0700 From: "Larry Zalkind" To: Subject: Cases Message-ID: <007001bf61e5$3bdff000$7119adcf@amd450> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have recently discovered that Wolfpack has been sold, and that merchandise will not be available until April at the earliest (and probably later). I can not find the small hard case with the standing legs in stock anywhere. If anyone knows of a similar case (by another company) that is as sturdy as the Wolfpack (maybe that can be checked as baggage safely) and small with folding legs and back-pack straps, I would appreciate an email message as to how to get one. Thanks for the help. Larry Zalkind Larry.Zalkind@m.cc.utah.edu From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:01:56 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adrian wrote (in part, and seriously): > It seems that there is a tiny minority who think that the list was created > solely for their convenience. They believe that if the input is not 100% > serious trombone-talk, to their satisfaction alone, they should not have > to > see it, and they are capable of letting contributors of such material know > in a most vicious way. I know. I and many others have been on the > receiving end of their hate mail. > > I feel that some of my contributions may be responsible for the LM's > plight. > I sincerely hope that this is not the case. I would not have responded to > all the invitations I received to re-sub after my long absence if I > thought > this might happen. I tend to see the funny side of life. It keeps me > sane. > This side of my character tends to reveal itself in my posts. On TV > recently, I heard a learned gentleman debating whether the new millennium > would find the human race being controlled by robots. He concluded that > "Humans will always be in control. Robots can't tell jokes". > I really agree with your outlook. Music is here for our enjoyment. It is a passtime and should be fun. Just because some have chosen to turn it into work for themselves, or into an academic exercise, should not lessen the enjoyment of music for the rest of us. Your posts often cause me to laugh, and sometimes cause me to scratch my head. But they always show that you enjoy what you are doing. It is those that take this joyful art and turn it into a serious, dark toil and labor that I pity the most. Thank you for your humor and the bright spot that you add to my day. And a big thank you to the List Monitor, and all the others on this list that make it one of the joys of my life. Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:01:52 +1300 From: "Richards" To: Subject: trombone-l Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, What do you all think about horns with removable f-trigger mechanisms, such as Conn's 89H? If there's nothing wrong with them why doesn't everybody use them? And for that matter, if there is something wrong, and I'm thinking along the lines of screw-threads wearing out and making funny vibrating noises, why do they make them? I had an opportuniy to try an 89H and I liked it a lot, but I'm curious to hear the opinions of people who've had more than half an hour's experience with them. thanks, Jeff LYCOShop is now open. On your mark, get set, SHOP!!! http://shop.lycos.com/ From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:41:01 -0500 From: David Buckley To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: <3884C1CC.DE8D4E8D@sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well said Adrian. dave. Adrian Drover wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Listmonitor Trombone-L > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 4:08 AM > Subject: Regarding the List Monitor > > > Over the past few days, the list monitor has been the target of several > > abusive e-mails from individuals on the list. > > It saddens me deeply to read messages such as this, and gladdens me in turn > to read messages of support for the otherwise thankless task that confronts > the LM. > > The trom-l is a huge one, with members from all walks of life and all > corners of the planet. It consists of top-line professional musicians, > amateur musicians, would-be and wanna-be trombonists, doctors, dental > surgeons, lawyers, journalists, librarians, aviators, engineers, composers, > arrangers, acousticians, instrument designers, teachers, students, sages, > philosophers, academics and comedians (and who have I missed out?). All > these people have a common interest; the trombone. There is a wealth of > knowledge, reference, interest and humour to be sought on the trom-l, and it > is all for free. What more could anyone want, and where else could anyone > find all this? > > It seems that there is a tiny minority who think that the list was created > solely for their convenience. They believe that if the input is not 100% > serious trombone-talk, to their satisfaction alone, they should not have to > see it, and they are capable of letting contributors of such material know > in a most vicious way. I know. I and many others have been on the > receiving end of their hate mail. > > I set up filters long ago to send this electronic venom straight to the > shredder. I would suggest that anyone who does not like the content of a > particular author's posts should do the same, and that includes mine. > Believe me, I don't want my messages sitting on a hostile terminal. > > There are occasional threads that bore the pants off me. That does not give > me the right to dictate what should be sent to the list. There are > occasional messages that I do not agree with. That does not give me the > right to send abusive or hostile replies. It is doubly worse when the LM > becomes the recipient of these malicious attacks. > > I feel that some of my contributions may be responsible for the LM's plight. > I sincerely hope that this is not the case. I would not have responded to > all the invitations I received to re-sub after my long absence if I thought > this might happen. I tend to see the funny side of life. It keeps me sane. > This side of my character tends to reveal itself in my posts. On TV > recently, I heard a learned gentleman debating whether the new millennium > would find the human race being controlled by robots. He concluded that > "Humans will always be in control. Robots can't tell jokes". > > The trom-l has brought me into contact with new friends, and there are many > other listers that I have not yet met and probably never will, yet though > some are half a planet away, I feel that I know them just as well as my > closest family, neighbours and colleagues. > > Thank you Mr. List Creator and thank you Mr. List Monitor. You are both > providing the international trombone community with a priceless and > unparalleled service! > > A. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) > Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk > Business: studio@adios.co.uk > http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:57 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:36:15 -0800 From: "Gary D. Maxwell @ Sequoia Middle School" To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: <3884C0AF.24441AFF@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian, LM and ALL, This is one of those "Jump On the Band Wagon" type subjects, but I have to agree with Adrian on all counts. Also, an old axiom (?) states: "Don't bite the hand that feeds." Without the List Owner and the List Moderator, we wouldn't have a list. There are times, having actively played a trombone since 1954, that I tend to complacency and figure I have learned all I need to know about the beast. Suddenly I get hungry, once again and yearn nourishment that this list offers. How dare anyone attack my feeder! Carry on. All the best, Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adrian Drover wrote: > It saddens me deeply to read messages such as this, and gladdens me in turn > to read messages of support for the otherwise thankless task that confronts > the LM. From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:01:06 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I tried to say yesterday, but buttheadedly sent to a list s*bscriber instead: In a message dated 1/16/00 10:09:00 PM Central Standard Time, tsks@cjnetworks.com writes: > What the list monitor CAN do: > - Approve subscription requests > - Stop and start the list > - Change mail preferences for users at their request > - Unsubscribe list members > - Send messages to the list regarding list protocols and procedures > - Help resolve subscription problems Which is a lot. > Over the past three months, the list monitor has helped over 100 list > members resolve subscription problems, removed two list subscribers who > were sending abusive messages to other list members off the list using > anonymous e-mail services, worked with Eric Nicklas to resolve a major list > problem after a SENDMAIL software upgrade, and approved about 150 new > subscriptions. I'm one subscriber he's helped more than once with technical problems between the listserv and my e-mail account. He does it capably and doggedly. You'd almost think he was paid to sit there waiting for such problems and then working on them. > All of this is done in 'spare' time for no compensation - this is a > voluntary position. I'm repeatedly astonished by how many people will come to a free, no-questions-asked, 24 hour per day party like this list and other lists to which I s*bscribe, and then abuse the host and the volunteer help. Grow up, people. Mike Bennett From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:25:50 -0500 From: "Johnson, Scott (TBS)" To: "trombone-l (E-mail)" Subject: WindSong Press? Message-ID: <69D701C43C4ED211BAAC0000F807753702FA2767@cnncmx03.turner.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Fellow Listers, Does anyone know if WindSong Press is still in operation? I've been calling them to place an order for the last several days and only get their answering machine; even during "business" hours. Thanks! Scott Johnson Conyers, GA USA From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:38:35 -0600 From: Angie Brunk To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Leadership Institute: Jazz and Libraries #2 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some of you asked for updates on this jazz in libraries workshop. If I can afford it, I'll go and report. I don't think I agree with their definition of inprovisation. Any comments? >Good morning! Last week we introduced the upcoming conference on Jazz and >Libraries. Here's more! > >Jazz improvisation includes: >1. A deliberate effort to interrupt habits >2. Embracing errors >3. Maximizing flexibility >4. Making sense by looking backwards >5. Negotiating and synchronizing >6. Hanging out >7. Taking turns soloing and supporting > >What can a busy circulation supervisor, children's librarian, library >administrator, reference librarian, consultant, cataloger, reference >librarian learn from jazz musicians? Whether you've been to Emporia for >K-PLACE, earned a MLS here or elsewhere, or never yet been to campus >here's an opportunity to explore new ideas and discover how much you know. >Whether you are new to librarianship or a seasoned veteran, mark your >calendar for WEDNESDAY, MARCH 15, 9-3. Whether you call yourself a leader or >blush when others call you a leader, whether you've been a Kansas leader for >many years or are planning to become a leader or have never even thought of >it, we hope you will join us for the LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE: JAZZ AND >LIBRARIES. Whether you work in large or small place, public, academic or >special libraries watch KANLIB-L for registration information next Monday >and the agenda on February 1. > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > Angie Brunk MLS Indiana University School of Library and Information Science 1999 "As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever."--Clarence Darrow From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:45:10 -0500 From: Stephen Troy To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Gurrelieder in Philly Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000118184510.009346b0@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Philadelphia area listers (listees?), It seems I have an extra ticket for the Philadelphia Orchestra performance of Schoenberg's "Gurrelieder" on Thursday night, January 20. If there's anyone out there who would want it - for free! - let me know immediately and we'll arrange some way for me to get the ticket to you. Unless, of course, you don't want to see an alto, four tenors, a bass and a contrabass [mandatory trombone content] all at the same time - without Tom Izzo being around, that is. Steve Troy sctroy@erols.com unless you are responding during the day on Wednesday - then try me at sct@jny.com. From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:46:13 -0300 From: "Hugo García Sampedro" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: trombone-l (removable f-trigger) Message-ID: <01bf620e$34503880$LocalHost@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Hi I can't answer for others but in my case the improvement on valve designs make that system at a certain point unnecessary. Some years ago I mainly played on a Bach 42C (removable F rotor). The difference between the straight horn and the one with the F att. was big (at least for me), so it worths the assembling and disassembling procedures. Now, with thayers, lindbergs, etc. the difference between a straight horn and the one with F att. is not so noticeable, so there's no a strong reason for that assembling and disassembling procedures. At first when I bought the Edwards that I'm currently playing, I used to carry the straight neckpipe in the case / bag all the time, but I just used it in a few times. Now it is stored at home. In fact, I think that this systems were (at least in some degree) an answer that some manufacturers give to the market, in a moment when trombone players began to purchase straight horns and then convert them to thayers equipped ones. Remember that by that time big manufacturers can't built thayer equipped trombones. yours -Hugo From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:55:36 EST From: TonyC789@aol.com To: TubaEuph@onelist.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Help needed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for a score and a set of parts to "Fantasia di Concerto" Sounds from the Riviera for Baritone (BC) and band by Boccalari. Carl Fisher tells me they are permanently out of print. Is there a set out there I can beg, borrow, steal, rent, buy? Any help would be appreciated. Tony Clements From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:25:01 -0600 From: Jeff Hettling To: Trombone-l Subject: Re: Do you polish your trombone?? Message-ID: <3885045C.2583D6DA@starpoint.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In fact I do polish my horn. I can see a big difference in before and after I polish. I use a little Pledge (sp?) on a lint free cloth and work away. That's it. From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:30:13 -0500 From: "John Palmer" To: "Trombone List Contributions" Subject: re: Yamaha Bass trombone models Message-ID: <001201bf6214$5a4061e0$fe488d18@kico1.on.wave.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear listeres... I have a Yamaha 613H.....4-5 years now. I really like this horn. I have checked around with technicians and players and apparently you would be really hard pressed to find anything that plays as open (both on the valve side and not). I certainly have not pushed the limits of this horn but I'm getting there. Kudos to Douglas Yeo for his exercises in 'the book'.... Thank you Doug... I am finding that those exercises (the tone development one and particularly the one with the rests without taking a breath exercise) are helping a lot. Also.....think warm foggy air on the bass horn. A conceptual thing... Cheers John Palmer Kingston From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:50:06 -0600 From: "Brian Frederiksen" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: WindSong Press? Message-ID: <00b001bf6217$22f95a40$9a90fea9@hp500> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am here but have been out of the office quite a bit trying to put a collection of Mr Jacobs' books together. Sorry I missed you, if no one is in leave a message and we will get back. Brian Frederiksen WindSong Press ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnson, Scott (TBS)" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:25 PM Subject: WindSong Press? > Fellow Listers, > > Does anyone know if WindSong Press is still in operation? I've been calling them to place an order for the last several days and only get their answering machine; even during "business" hours. > > Thanks! > > Scott Johnson > Conyers, GA USA > From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:36:04 -0500 (EST) From: David Proctor To: John Palmer Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Octave jumping Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass trombone: I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", "respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? David Proctor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- William David Proctor--Music Education--Bass Trombone--University of Tennessee, Knoxville *129th Army National Guard Band--Nashville, TN *UT Wind Ensemble-UT Civic Orchestra-Pride of the Southland Marching Band-Trombone Choir-Christian Student Center-Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "Always give thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Ephesians 5:20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:59:15 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <004f01bf6220$ccdd6480$b11c0f3f@default> Dave wrote: >Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass >trombone: >I know numerous other bass trombone players, Hold this thought for a moment. some who are in school with >me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be >it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, >without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or >space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game >to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, >which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last >note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", >"respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own >voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are >concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful >music. I think that you have hit the nail on the head at least twice. There are bass trombonists, and there are musicians who happen to have chosen the bass trombone as their preferred instrument. There is a big difference, and I think that you are describing one of those differences. The same is true with any instrument. Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:03:37 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: davidpr1@utkux.utcc.utk.edu Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <200001190203.UAA14775@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" EXCELLENT QUESTION David! This has been popular for decades. Playing notes different from what is written in most music is wrong! Any conductor worth his salt would not allow this to happen with impunity. Obviously it would be a gross violation to do this in an audition or in any performance of orchestral literature, serious wind ensemble literature or chamber music. When done with discretion and musical taste in a jazz ensemble or in band literature, where it is obvious that the composer was writing a low trombone part with the limitations of the tenor trombone in mind, it can be effective and allowable. There is a certain "licence" that bass bone players have when it comes to playing down an octave in certain musical situations. We used to do it all the time in trombone choir at Eastman and I even did it in certain situations in wind ensemble with the consent of the conductor (usually Hunsberger but frequently Fennell as well). There is a certain quality that the bass trombone has in the extreme low register that is unquestionably exciting and unmatchable be other bass instruments. In my own compositions I use very low bass trombone writing (often in octaves and unison with piano and contra bassoon - great sound!) but I am writing in a time when the bass trombone is very much expected to be available and has a long enough history as not to be considered a freak instrument in an ensemble - any good composer now will write exactly what he wants to hear from the bass trombone. There is nothing like hearing 2 or 3 bass trombones of a 6 bass trombone section in a trombone choir play the finale note of a Bach chorale in its lowest range - say a nice pedal D or C. It has the quality of an organ pipe. BUT, bass trombone players must exhibit good taste, musical knowledge and, as you alluded, enough theory to know what voice of a chord they are playing. I doubt (actually I KNOW) that most bass trombone players cannot be trusted to do this with discretion and good musical taste, so conductors have to be on the ball enough to know when a bass bone players is doing something stupid just because he can! People have rather sophomoric notions of what is impressive. Notes played very high and notes played very low and notes played VERY loud will always impress those who lack the subtlety to make and appreciate real musical excitement. Mike Coyle (Former Bass Trombonist who switched to tenor because he wanted to play the melody now and then. :) (Current composer/arranger who would fire any bass trombonist who dared to change a note he wrote :) At 07:36 PM 1/18/00 , you wrote: >Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass >trombone: >I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with >me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be >it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, >without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or >space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game >to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, >which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last >note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", >"respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own >voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are >concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful >music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and >I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read >it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? >David Proctor > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >William David Proctor--Music Education--Bass Trombone--University of >Tennessee, Knoxville > *129th Army National Guard Band--Nashville, TN >*UT Wind Ensemble-UT Civic Orchestra-Pride of the Southland Marching > Band-Trombone Choir-Christian Student Center-Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia >"Always give thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our >Lord Jesus Christ." Ephesians 5:20 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:19:08 -0800 From: "Gary Maxwell" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <000201bf6223$db43e320$4d02a5d1@maxwells> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, January 18, 2000 5:36 PM, David Proctor Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass > trombone: > I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with > me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be > it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, > without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or > space between voices > music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and > I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read > it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? Basically, the act of throwing the notes down an 8va is not considered good practice. Often during "Big Band" charts, if the trbns are written in unison the 4th or 5th (whatever the case may be) trbn parts may be taken down an 8va to bring out more depth and because trombonists playing in unison (Boy am I going to catch ot now!) generally have trouble playing in tune, so by having the bottom part (Bass) part taken down an 8va, this intonation discrepancy can be masked. Much like vibrato is often used to raise an otherwise flat note. During marching shows, rightly or wrongly, band directors will often turn a deaf ear to this practice, particularly if power and lot of bottom is desired. Inside concerts this practice should not happen unless so marked in a part, and that is generally only done to not force a player to attempt a note in the upper range that is not in his/her technique, or also to aid in filling out the overall sound at a particular point in the musical selection. Honestly speaking, the act of throwing the notes down an 8va is an act of ego, fun that it is, and I cannot say that I do not ever resist the temptation. There is nothing quite like the feel of a good solid, spur of the moment, pedal 'C'. (:>)) Fire retardent doused and turn-outs on. Blaze away. Gary Maxwell Bass Trombone Bakersfield Symphony Orchestra From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:58 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:37:53 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David Proctor wrote: >Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass >trombone: >I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with >me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be >it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, >without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or >space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game >to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, >which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last >note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", >"respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own >voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are >concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful >music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and >I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read >it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? Big can o' worms here! First, I never drop octaves to show off, but that comes with maturity. I'm sure I did more than my share of stupid things in my younger days. I was truly young and foolish . . . . I'm older now ;-) Second, it can be done at times WITH GOOD TASTE which comes with experience. Never go below the tubas, never drop the 5th of the chord below the root, never drop the 3rd or extended harmony notes. It also depends upon the genre of music. In classical (including concert band music), I view the written notes as almost sacred, and hesitate to change a thing without talking with the conductor. In jazz, I add it for effect from time to time, but again, with taste. In my church gig, I drop octaves to re-inforce the low end, but only after testing them in rehearsals. I've worked with the same conductor for over 8 years, and he trusts me to do the musical thing. In Music Theory 101, my professor (Dr. Sandra Emig) stated, "This class will teach you the rules of music theory. Time, experience and practice will teach you when it is safe to break those rules." Hmmm.... Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit the Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:34:32 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: davidpr1@utkux.utcc.utk.edu, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000118193432.00b2d480@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 08:36 PM 1/18/00 -0500, David Proctor wrote: >Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass >trombone: >I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with >me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be >it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, >without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or >space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game >to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, >which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last >note. >What are some other opinions on this topic? Guilty. Guilty! GUILTY! Oh, me! I'm GUILTY! But I've repented! And I try not to do it any more. (No, REALLY!) And, I'm pretty good at it. Except for the very last chord of the Hallelujah Chorus -- the pedal C works great there, IF you can get it strong enough to have a good edge! And "'Tis the Season to be Jolly" works really well, started on pedal B flat and going down from there... Oh no! Guilty now of THOUGHT CRIME! Oh me, me, me! Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:36:50 -0600 From: "Edwin Miller" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <002701bf6226$0bfecaf0$0201a8c0@XPSR400> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a topic I have silently harbored opinions about for years. Like so many things musicians do, this speaks to numerous elements of professionalism: maturity, taste, putting the sound of the section and music above ones selfish needs or wants,etc. How do I know? Because I was inflicted with a love of bass trombone as a teenager and in the years I have been playing I have been guilty of just about every transgression possible on the instrument. There are those occasions when dropping the octave can be an enhancement but those occasions don't really happen that often (appropriately) in my experience. Never in an orchestral setting, sometimes in a big band where all 4 bones are playing the same thing and the lower octave enchances a cool break or something. This is best done in consultation with the rest of the section and anyone else with a vested interest (band leader, arranger if present, etc). General rule of thumb is to leave arranging to the arrangers/composers and worry about the intent of the music and being a good citizen in your section. If you do it, it shouldn't be apparent to anyone that you did it. Arranging on the fly in this fashion is an egotistical calling attention to oneself and tends to be reckless towards the music. Why are you doing it? To sound good to yourself or to the audience? The bass bone players around town that I respect rarely if ever do it. There is nothing so cool as a bass trombone sound underpinning a brass section when its done right and there is nothing so disappointing as extra-musical, blatty bass trombone that exists for its own sake or for the amusement of the trombone operator. What's important is the intent one has and, like most things, the way it's handled within the group (reckless vs. sensitive, selfish vs. helpful, greedy vs. constructive, blend vs. sore thumb, indifference vs. respect). Immature players often are amazed and amused that they can do things like play loud pedal notes and sometimes get a distorted sense of what sounds good. Buy some Frank Sinatra CD's with George Roberts. Perhaps he drops some things, but you would never know. One day, hopefully, they start to hear the rest of the group and understand their role in that context. The fact that you express concern about this indicates some level of maturity and speaks well of you, IMO. Ed Miller Nashville ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Proctor" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 7:36 PM Subject: Octave jumping > Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass > trombone: > I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with > me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be > it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, > without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or > space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game > to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, > which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last > note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", > "respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own > voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are > concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful > music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and > I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read > it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? > David Proctor > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > William David Proctor--Music Education--Bass Trombone--University of > Tennessee, Knoxville > *129th Army National Guard Band--Nashville, TN > *UT Wind Ensemble-UT Civic Orchestra-Pride of the Southland Marching > Band-Trombone Choir-Christian Student Center-Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia > "Always give thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our > Lord Jesus Christ." Ephesians 5:20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:55:34 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <006201bf6231$0a719a40$8575dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to second everything Mike wrote here. As a Bass Trombonist (for over 30 years), I too love to play "down the octave", or two. :-) But we can never lose sight of what the composer or arranger has written. I am also an arranger, & a conductor of, among other things, a Trombone Choir. MOST of my arrangements have 2 Bass Trb parts, some have 3, some have a Contra part below the Bass part. And when octave displacement is done indiscriminately, UGGH. I don't want any 6/4 chords! I think the practice of taking a "lot" down an octave is primarily by inexperienced players. The Bass Trombone has a rich high range as well, & sounds wonderful playing in its "stratosphere". Listen to Doug Yeo's title song on "Proclamation". Yes there are low notes, & there are some wonderfully RICH high notes, that don't sound the same on a Tenor. You can play those same high notes on an Alto, but they sound wonderful on Bass. Or from the same album, the last cut: Amazing Grace. Every single note in that piece can be played on a Tenor EVERY note except the final note can also be played on Alto, but it sounds wonderful on Bass, really brings the Bass Trombone to life. BTW, the Proclamation CD (Doyen DOY CD 055), should be in everyone's library, a must have. Should be required listening for all students of our instrument-Bass, Tenor, Alto, Whatever.... Tom > EXCELLENT QUESTION David! > > This has been popular for decades. Playing notes different from what is > written in most music is wrong! Any conductor worth his salt would not > allow this to happen with impunity. Obviously it would be a gross > violation to do this in an audition or in any performance of orchestral > literature, serious wind ensemble literature or chamber music. > > When done with discretion and musical taste in a jazz ensemble or in band > literature, where it is obvious that the composer was writing a low > trombone part with the limitations of the tenor trombone in mind, it can be > effective and allowable. There is a certain "licence" that bass bone > players have when it comes to playing down an octave in certain musical > situations. We used to do it all the time in trombone choir at Eastman and > I even did it in certain situations in wind ensemble with the consent of > the conductor (usually Hunsberger but frequently Fennell as well). There > is a certain quality that the bass trombone has in the extreme low register > that is unquestionably exciting and unmatchable be other bass instruments. > In my own compositions I use very low bass trombone writing (often in > octaves and unison with piano and contra bassoon - great sound!) but I am > writing in a time when the bass trombone is very much expected to be > available and has a long enough history as not to be considered a freak > instrument in an ensemble - any good composer now will write exactly what > he wants to hear from the bass trombone. > > There is nothing like hearing 2 or 3 bass trombones of a 6 bass trombone > section in a trombone choir play the finale note of a Bach chorale in its > lowest range - say a nice pedal D or C. It has the quality of an organ > pipe. BUT, bass trombone players must exhibit good taste, musical > knowledge and, as you alluded, enough theory to know what voice of a chord > they are playing. I doubt (actually I KNOW) that most bass trombone > players cannot be trusted to do this with discretion and good musical > taste, so conductors have to be on the ball enough to know when a bass bone > players is doing something stupid just because he can! > > People have rather sophomoric notions of what is impressive. Notes played > very high and notes played very low and notes played VERY loud will always > impress those who lack the subtlety to make and appreciate real musical > excitement. > > Mike Coyle > (Former Bass Trombonist who switched to tenor because he wanted to play the > melody now and then. :) > (Current composer/arranger who would fire any bass trombonist who dared to > change a note he wrote :) > > At 07:36 PM 1/18/00 , you wrote: > >Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass > >trombone: > >I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with > >me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be > >it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, > >without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or > >space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game > >to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, > >which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last > >note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", > >"respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own > >voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are > >concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful > >music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and > >I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read > >it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? > >David Proctor > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > >William David Proctor--Music Education--Bass Trombone--University of > >Tennessee, Knoxville > > *129th Army National Guard Band--Nashville, TN > >*UT Wind Ensemble-UT Civic Orchestra-Pride of the Southland Marching > > Band-Trombone Choir-Christian Student Center-Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia > >"Always give thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our > >Lord Jesus Christ." Ephesians 5:20 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:14:40 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: trombone-l Message-ID: <20000119031440.61988.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ah Hah!! I know why. Well, I think I know why. The reason everybody doesn't use removeable F-attachments for horns is that, for most people, they are impractical. If one uses a .547" instrument, then one will almost always want the attachment. Nowadays, valve technology generally makes permanent valve presence feasible, as Hugo pointed out. But in some cases it's for the same reason that I will never see a Thayer on a King 3B or any other smallbore horn: it's a little pointless in the eye of most players. Now for problems, it doesn't matter that one day the screws might loosen up and rattle. People still buy some modular horns; therefore, until people stop buying them because of that potential problem, nothing in the manufacturing process is going to change. FWIW: If I saw a good condition 89H0 somewhere and I had the appropriate budget funds for getting a largebore, I would purchase it as soon as I was certain it played the way I wanted it to. Why? Because the Conn rotor does push back a little the way rotors like to do, and if I don't want that in a particular situation, then I'll remove the attachment. I think I could fix any rattles that the 'bone would produce (other than the ungodly vibration of the bell when I nastily overblow the poor thing), so thus there are no drawbacks to modular construction, IMLHO. Oh, yeah: another reason that a lot of people forego the removeable F-attachment is this: it costs more. Yours in the art of trombone, Aaron Roth >Hello all, >What do you all think about horns with removable f-trigger mechanisms, such >as Conn's 89H? >If there's nothing wrong with them why doesn't everybody use them? >And for that matter, if there is something wrong, and I'm thinking along >the lines of screw-threads wearing out and making funny vibrating noises, >why do they make them? > >I had an opportuniy to try an 89H and I liked it a lot, but I'm curious to >hear the opinions of people who've had more than half an hour's experience >with them. > >thanks, >Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:23:42 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A good thread, with many sensible, good responses. People who know me know that I agree that a bass trombone player hotdogging around is a terrific way to ruin a piece. It never ceases to amaze me how many bass trombone players are utterly convinced that they actually sound good taking things down an octave at will (yes, even some well known symphony players, one of whom can be heard playing [and hanging over on] a trigger C as the last note of Beethoven 5 - on a recording, no less!). But the sensible heads on the list have it right - there are RARE occasions when this is a good idea (and Beethoven isn't one of them!). At 8:36 PM -0600 1/18/00, Edwin Miller wrote: >Immature players often are amazed and amused that they can do things like >play loud pedal notes and sometimes get a distorted sense of what sounds >good. Buy some Frank Sinatra CD's with George Roberts. Perhaps he drops >some things, but you would never know. One day, hopefully, they start to >hear the rest of the group and understand their role in that context. Well said, Edwin, you are right, and not only that, I can say that in George Roberts' case, he sometimes took a note UP an octave (not down) from the ink. I have the score (and parts) to "Five Pieces for Bass Trombone" by Nelson Riddle which he wrote for George (long out of print) as well as the recording George made of the piece (it's a brass quintet for 2 trumpets, horn, bass trombone and tuba). There are a few occasions where he takes a note UP an octave - not because he can't play what was written, but because his good sense and judgment actually knew better than Nelson Riddle that it would SOUND better there. 2 cents of advice to young (and old players) who like to drop octaves because they think it sounds "cool" and makes them look "awesome" - It doesn't sound "cool" and you don't look "awesome" when you do it. Instead, play what's written, but play it great - even if you don't feel "important" when you do it. Now THAT'S something that people will REALLY notice! All the best, -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:40:11 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <20000119034011.1162.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ...must have strength....not this one, it's the third of the chord....wait!....aaaah!!! It's the Tonic!!!.....Must.....DROP!!!!!! I tried to resist responding to this one because all the other, more mature basses already said it, but my figurative mouth is just too big. I'm a good boy in the orchestra, but when it comes to jazz ensemble, I need a whoopin'! It seems to me that whenever the 4th and 5th bones are unison on a tonic, or sometimes when I (5th bone) have a chordal root with the string 'bass, I can fill out certain chords with the added range. Now, there's this one chart we're doing that is pretty round in the lower middle registers of all the instruments, and I can't drop anything there because it'd all get too muddy. I try to apply musicality to my decisions, and I never take anything UP an octave for the performance setting. That being a more obvious action, I never, ever take stuff up unless specifically asked for (wind ensemble, orchestra, jazz ensemble, any position trombone). It seems to me that if the result of an octave drop sounds good and I have some remote reason for taking license in the practice, then I should be able to decide whether or not to do such a thing, usually after consulting the director. To not apply musicality to so controversial a concept wastes everyone's time and can damage an ensemble's musical integrity. Every time I hear a chord made nasty by the unorthodox inversion caused by the bass bone drop, I get more conservative in my own practice. -Aaron Roth >Question that's been bugging me awhile as a music major playing bass >trombone: >I know numerous other bass trombone players, some who are in school with >me and some who aren't, who make it a habit to drop passages in music (be >it marching, 'bone choir, concert band, etc.) down at least an octave, >without regard for position in the chord, blend with the ensemble, or >space between voices. Anything written in or above the staff is fair game >to be transferred to the pedal register, not to mention the last note, >which MUST be dropped below wherever it is written...because it's the last >note. In light of all the list discussions about "authenticity", >"respecting the composer's intent", not to mention "finding one's own >voice as a musician", I am concerned that too many bass trombonists are >concerned with showing off than actually rendering any sort of meaningful >music. (And yes, I have read Douglas Yeo's article about "Me, Myself and >I" on his webpage; it's an excellent article for those who haven't read >it.) What are some other opinions on this topic? >David Proctor ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:33:17 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <014a01bf622d$efd00120$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have done it on occasion, when called for by the situation, sometimes the chart was written for younger players who had not developed that area, sometimes with two or more players it works well to divide. Sometimes also in older music before double valves, it was safer to write up. Let the conductor know what you want to try, let he or she make the final decision ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net > From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:07:47 -0800 From: " Dan Cloutier" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Gurrelieder in Philly Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:45:10 Stephen Troy wrote: >Unless, of course, you don't want to see an >alto, four tenors, a bass and a contrabass >[mandatory trombone content] all at the same >time You forgot the Bass Trumpet! --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:25:06 EST From: Budshcneider@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/18/00 7:36:47 PM Central Standard Time, davidpr1@utkux.utcc.utk.edu writes: << What are some other opinions on this topic? >> As a guy most often hired as a lead player, my pet peeve is the moronic bass trombone player who literally destroys a section by this sophomoric, immature behavior. Bud From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:40:59 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:40:49 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Gurrelieder in Philly Message-ID: <00ce01bf623f$bee05da0$8575dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Troy > Dear Philadelphia area listers (listees?), > > It seems I have an extra ticket for the Philadelphia Orchestra performance > of Schoenberg's "Gurrelieder" on Thursday night, January 20. If there's > anyone out there who would want it - for free! - let me know immediately > and we'll arrange some way for me to get the ticket to you. Unless, of > course, you don't want to see an alto, four tenors, a bass and a contrabass > [mandatory trombone content] all at the same time - without Tom Izzo being > around, that is. > hahahahahahahahab Gee thanks! But I .....could be................ :-) Tom From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:41:00 2000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:49:21 -0800 From: Larry White To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Mr. List Monitor, I Salute You ! Message-ID: <38854250.BF93FFFC@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And Thank you Adrian, whom I think we should nominate as our LISTEE (Not Listless) Emeritus! L White Adrian Drover wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Listmonitor Trombone-L > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 4:08 AM > Subject: Regarding the List Monitor > > > Over the past few days, the list monitor has been the target of several > > abusive e-mails from individuals on the list. > > It saddens me deeply to read messages such as this, and gladdens me in turn > to read messages of support for the otherwise thankless task that confronts > the LM. > > The trom-l is a huge one, with members from all walks of life and all > corners of the planet. It consists of top-line professional musicians, > amateur musicians, would-be and wanna-be trombonists, doctors, dental > surgeons, lawyers, journalists, librarians, aviators, engineers, composers, > arrangers, acousticians, instrument designers, teachers, students, sages, > philosophers, academics and comedians (and who have I missed out?). All > these people have a common interest; the trombone. There is a wealth of > knowledge, reference, interest and humour to be sought on the trom-l, and it > is all for free. What more could anyone want, and where else could anyone > find all this? > > It seems that there is a tiny minority who think that the list was created > solely for their convenience. They believe that if the input is not 100% > serious trombone-talk, to their satisfaction alone, they should not have to > see it, and they are capable of letting contributors of such material know > in a most vicious way. I know. I and many others have been on the > receiving end of their hate mail. > > I set up filters long ago to send this electronic venom straight to the > shredder. I would suggest that anyone who does not like the content of a > particular author's posts should do the same, and that includes mine. > Believe me, I don't want my messages sitting on a hostile terminal. > > There are occasional threads that bore the pants off me. That does not give > me the right to dictate what should be sent to the list. There are > occasional messages that I do not agree with. That does not give me the > right to send abusive or hostile replies. It is doubly worse when the LM > becomes the recipient of these malicious attacks. > > I feel that some of my contributions may be responsible for the LM's plight. > I sincerely hope that this is not the case. I would not have responded to > all the invitations I received to re-sub after my long absence if I thought > this might happen. I tend to see the funny side of life. It keeps me sane. > This side of my character tends to reveal itself in my posts. On TV > recently, I heard a learned gentleman debating whether the new millennium > would find the human race being controlled by robots. He concluded that > "Humans will always be in control. Robots can't tell jokes". > > The trom-l has brought me into contact with new friends, and there are many > other listers that I have not yet met and probably never will, yet though > some are half a planet away, I feel that I know them just as well as my > closest family, neighbours and colleagues. > > Thank you Mr. List Creator and thank you Mr. List Monitor. You are both > providing the international trombone community with a priceless and > unparalleled service! > > A. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) > Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk > Business: studio@adios.co.uk > http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:41:00 2000 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:52:39 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Octave jumping Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000119065239.006aacd0@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And here I thought it was a new Olympic event. From ???@??? Wed Jan 19 09:41:00 2000 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:15:56 -0800 From: Bodie Pfost To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Octave jumping Message-ID: <388580CC.8358AB6A@wcinet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Being a tenor trombonist I don't have the opportunity or want to take my parts down an octave. I do have another question though... in our "pep" band at school I am the leader of my section (4 now). For the songs that we play there are only one or two parts, divided into four people that's two on a part. I like to either a) take the 1st part up an octave, or b) take the 1st part up a 3rd, 4th or 5th, but always a chord tone. In doing this, I am really creating another part. I would never think of doing this on a piece by a composer/arranger who knew what they were writing, but you gotta wonder if some of those marching band/pep band music arrangers had a horrible grudge against trombone players. Of course you can argue, that the parts are written for high school level players, or the parts are written so as to not be taxing on the brain or chops. Personally, I like to hear as many notes as possible to fill out the chords, and I like to have original parts that are fun and challenging for me to play. That's my $0.02 on the subject. -- Bodie Pfost