TROMBONE-L Digest 1570 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Hidas Rhapsody parts? by Douglas Yeo 2) test by "Wessner, John" 3) re- new york philharmonic by "b.v.dijk" 4) Stick It by "Thomas Smee" 5) Jazz by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 6) Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) by Mike Coyle 7) Tuning (in ensembles) by james.c.shake@us.pwcglobal.com 8) Re: Rousseau's Piece Concertante by Jeff Hettling 9) Re: Modular Jazz by "Adrian Drover" 10) Re: Bass Trombone by "Adrian Drover" 11) Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) by "Rodney Ellard" 12) RE: Bass Trombone by BrianB@PR-CN.COM 13) Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) by Chris Tune 14) RE: Bass Trombone by "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" 15) RE: Bass Trombone by Dennis Clason 16) HTML E-Mails by Listmonitor Trombone-L 17) Bass Trombone by "Thomas Smee" 18) Male chorus and trombones? by Douglas Yeo 19) Re: Bass Trombone by sabutin@mindspring.com 20) Re: Bass Trombone by Douglas Yeo 21) Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1569 by will connelly 22) Re: Bass Trombone by John Capon 23) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by "Adrian Drover" 24) Re: Male chorus and trombones? by "Kenneth Dowdy" 25) Re: Modular Jazz by "Les Benedict" 26) Re: Bass Trombone by John Capon 27) Re: Bass Trombone by Chris Waage 28) Re: Bass Trombone by "stevencarr" 29) mp3 on Douglas Yeo web site by Douglas Yeo 30) sorry... by Douglas Yeo 31) Re: Male chorus and trombones? by ROSEBONE@aol.com 32) Dallas Opera Results by "posaune rex" 33) Sincere testimony by "Terry Timberlake" 34) Re: Bass Trombone by MikeSuter@aol.com 35) FROM THE LIST MONITOR Re: Sincere testimony by Listmonitor Trombone-L 36) Re: Dallas Opera Results by Posaune9@aol.com 37) Originality by "Adrian Drover" 38) Re: Bass Trombone by "Adrian Drover" 39) Re: Bass Trombone by "Adrian Drover" From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:49:36 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Cc: Fretless65@aol.com Subject: Hidas Rhapsody parts? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I've had a query from a bass trombonist who wants to play the Hidas "Rhapsody" for bass trombone and wind ensemble but is having difficulty finding the band parts. If anyone has a set they are willing to lend out (a rental fee could be negotiated), or knows where a set may be found for purchase (he has already tried Hickeys who is trying, but apparently the Rhapsody has a new distributor and there's difficulty getting it), please email (DON'T EMAIL ME!): Michael Tyrrell Fretless65@aol.com Thanks for your help. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:53:43 -0500 From: "Wessner, John" To: "'Trombones and related issues forum.'" Subject: test Message-ID: <38074DD5B6CCD2119C8F0000D11C17BD024C0727@exchange.towson.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain please disregard From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:05:34 +0100 From: "b.v.dijk" To: "trblists" Subject: re- new york philharmonic Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 08:56 PM 1/13/00 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Tom, > >You have a good eye. Yes, it was a Thein basstrombone >Don was playing. I can proudly say it is the model >the Theins and myself developed. Indeed it has Haagmanvalves >on it and I can tell you it is a great horn. >The NY Phil has a complete set of Thein trombones now from >alto to bass trombone. >As a Thein player I am very happy to see you Yankees are getting >more and more interested in European instruments wich, in my opinion, >will make the sound of the orchestra's, with all respect, less >Starwars like. > >Greetings Ben van Dijk >Bass trombone >Rotterdam Philharmonic (Brass) >http://people.a2000.nl/dijkbvan > >How does it compare to a Shires? Have you ever played a Shires? Charles Levine Sorry Charles, I heard much about the Shires but didn't play it. Perhaps on the next Frankfurter Musikmesse. Ben van Dijk Bass trombone >Rotterdam Philharmonic (Brass) >http://people.a2000.nl/dijkbvan From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:13:18 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Stick It Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline RCA has re-released on CD a record that was a favourite when I was much younger. Its Buddy Rich, "Stick It". Most of it sounds pretty hopelessly dated now, but I only bought it for one track: Wave, featuring Bill Reichenbach. Still sounds great. The CD is US$ 11.49 at www.cdnow.com Tom Smee From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:17:26 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Jazz Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm reposting this since the original went via private e-mail instead of to the list. Seems to be happening a lot lately. Doug and all, I believe that part of the problem is the difference between what is popular and what is good. Commercial radio is not the best measure by which to discover the best music out there, be it Jazz or popular. I would have to agree with Bud that most of the Jazz that one hears on the radio is rather pathetic. However, there are no shortage of very good Jazz recordings such as Doug mentions, nor is there a shortage of good, innovative Jazz music at the local nightclubs and establishments. In fact, I often hear the "best" music when I am listening to a relatively unknown band at a rather small venue. I found this very true in regards to popular music, too. Some of my favorite rock and alternative albums are from people whom the average person on the street has never heard. The problem with our current society is that the cream does not always float to the top. What often floats to the top is a turd. I have only recently become interested in Jazz after a rather long love affair with both classical and alternative music. What won me over was attending live performances by local talent, not the stuff that usually is played on the radio. In addition, I ask some of these locals who inspired their music, and they have led me to many of the greats like Armstrong, Parker, Green and the like. Interestingly, none of them ever recommended Kenny G :-) Kenny D From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:24:59 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) Message-ID: <200001141725.LAA11321@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_5037078==_.ALT" The argument that there is no original jazz out there anymore is a little jaded in my opinion.  Of course, with a medium that is based on improvisation you're going to find that many people rely on "cliches" or other conventions that even people who have run out of ideas can play.  I still hear many people who play with a fresh melodic and harmonic concept - they may not get as much exposure as the "names" but they are out there.  Here in Minneapolis we have a very good jazz radio station that seems to find a lot of good stuff.  The problem seems to be that there are a few who get a lot of exposure who are either not jazz players at all (Kenny G) or are simply aping the older styles of the truly innovative players of the past (Wynton Marsalis, Marcus Roberts and that crowd). 

We live in a strange time.  Anyone can buy a midi synth and drum machine, punch a few buttons and call himself a composer.  If you want to experience this phenomenon in  its glory go to www.mp3.com - a haven for bad music - though, in all fairness, I must say there are occasionally some very talented folks who post their stuff there.  You hear cliches and echoes of every compositional style in the book.  People love to reproduce sounds that are similar to what they admire.  This does not mean that they have achieved the same thing, far from it.  Most imitation these days is not even good imitation.

This being said, one could make the argument that there is no good classical (for lack of better term) music being written these days either - everything has already been said and everything coming out now is cliche and has been done before.  NONSENSE!  Charles Wourinen, in his book Simple Composition, 1979, says, " But while the tonal system, in an atrophied or vestigial form, is still used today in popular and commercial music, and even occasionally in the works of backward-looking serious composers, it is no longer employed by serious composers of the mainstream." (chapter one).  A very bold, and now silly, statement.  If Wourinen or any other composer thinks that the use and study of tonality was exhausted with the 19th century they are kidding themselves and living in a fool's paradise.  Perhaps tonality based on V / I progressions (in other words dominant / tonic relationships) has been very well investigated, but other uses of tonality (in the sense of the use of recognizable, tertian sonorities with some sense of center) are still being explored beautifully by  such people as Arvo Part, John Adams, Alfred Schnittke, et al.  And what about tonality used in conjunction with new rhythmic inventions and/or patterning?  Like it or not, Glass, Reich, Riley, et al are all still contributing to this realm as well.  Another good example of  "old tonality" used in a new way is the slow movement form Rochberg's 3rd string quartet.  It is often called Mahlerian in its treatment but anyone who is familiar with the piece realizes the extensive variation, paraphrasing, and commenting on Mahler's style.  That is not the work of a "backword looking" composer, but rather a composer who had something new to contribute to a style from the past (obviously there is a rather ironic if not comical quality to this work as well, though it still yields some very moving and meaningful music).

If  this is true in "classical" music then I think it is true in jazz as well.  There are always going to be people stretching the boundaries and experimenting with variations on the basics.  True, there may not be as many now as in the 50s and 60s when Bill Evans, Monk, Bird, Coltrane and others were forging new territories, but new territory is still being forged by many innovative and intelligent players.  Why are their names not as big as the people we hear about all the time?  Largely because the listening public is pretty stagnant these days and wants more of the same rather than putting effort into learning something new.   Ken Dowdy is right on the money when he said, "I believe that part of the problem is the difference between what is popular and what is good". Any society that embraces John Tesh, Yanni and Kenny G is hard to defend.  New Age music is nothing more than bad musical archeology.  Imagine if archeologists who discovered the ruins of Pompeii and Herculaneum had stopped short of the exhaustive and painstaking work of uncovering and preserving the images of human devastation by simply making crude models and painting them in a way as to make them seem lifelike.  It would have been a mere shell of reality and would have yielded a veritable cartoon instead of the present day preservations which are sublime records of human tragedy.  Well, that is New Age music - lets take great works such as Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto or the great Concerti Grossi of Handel or Bach, strip them down to the most basic chord progressions, overlay insipid and vapid melodies that even a moron can comprehend, make transparent and "user-friendly" orchestral accompaniments, have it played by a guy with FABULOUS HAIR and VOILA!!!!!!!!  you have New Age music.  A tragically flawed and over simplified imitation of classical music for the musically impotent and auditorily challenged!  This is where we are now - any question why we are not in a society that fosters new ideas in a medium that is hard to grasp?  But, once again, just because we are not hearing good jazz or legit music on the radio that is representative of what some very talented people are doing right now, does not mean that it is not out there.

At some point in the future I would liike to release some of the pieces I am working on and make them available to some people on this list.  It has been my goal for a long time now to find a way to combine electronic and acoustic music in the most meaningful way without any of the "novelty" qualities of this music in the past.  Electronic instruments are simply the fifth instrument group and composers should stop using them as noise makers.  I am making extensive use of low brass in the orchestration and when I am satisfied that I have acheived what I wanted to (at least for the moment) I will make them available to you for your critique.  Perhaps I will make something that supports my claims about people indeed making good new music, or perhaps I will simple confirm that there is no good music being made anymore and that I am just another new age wanker with fabulous hair   :)

There is so much more about this I'd like to say but I have already used up my allotment in the  space/time continuum of trombone-l, I'm sure.

Mike

At 09:17 AM 1/14/00 , you wrote:
>I'm reposting this since the original went via private e-mail instead of to
>the list.  Seems to be happening a lot lately.
>
>Doug and all,
>
>I believe that part of the problem is the difference between what is popular
>and what is good.  Commercial radio is not the best measure by which to
>discover the best music out there, be it Jazz or popular.  I would have to
>agree with Bud that most of the Jazz that one hears on the radio is rather
>pathetic.  However, there are no shortage of very good Jazz recordings such
>as Doug mentions, nor is there a shortage of good, innovative Jazz music at
>the local nightclubs and establishments.  In fact, I often hear the "best"
>music when I am listening to a relatively unknown band at a rather small
>venue.  I found this very true in regards to popular music, too.  Some of my
>favorite rock and alternative albums are from people whom the average person
>on the street has never heard.  The problem with our current society is that
>the cream does not always float to the top.  What often floats to the top is
>a turd.  I have only recently become interested in Jazz after a rather long
>love affair with both classical and alternative music.  What won me over was
>attending live performances by local talent, not the stuff that usually is
>played on the radio.  In addition, I ask some of these locals who inspired
>their music, and they have led me to many of the greats like Armstrong,
>Parker, Green and the like.  Interestingly, none of them ever recommended
>Kenny G :-)
>
>Kenny D
> From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:13 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:45:10 -0500 From: james.c.shake@us.pwcglobal.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Tuning (in ensembles) Message-ID: <85256866.00617758.00@intlnamsmtp20.us.pw.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline Following up on a thread from last week by Sabutin (among others): I have experienced the same situation where no matter how I tried to adjust my pitch, I couldn't seem to get locked in tune with the group (a 12 piece brass ensemble - 3 TPTS, 1 Cornet, 3 Horns, Euph, BBb tuba, two tenor TBNS and myself on Bass TBN). Our players have a variety of backgrounds and, to a lesser extent, playing abilities (one retired symphony 1st TPT, a lawyer, doctor, 2 band directors, a former AF band trombonist, a carpenter, etc.) I would think I was sharp, but then would keep pulling way out and still seem sharp. I was getting frustrated and was starting to doubt my pitch discernment abilities. I think that there are at least two factors involved - differing timbres (conical vs. cylindrical type instruments), and other instruments being out of tune but not noticing. The progressive change in pitches during the rehearsal also can be a factor when there is a big difference between indoor and outdoor temperatures in summer or winter. One recent performance seemed to point these first two items out, as the seating was different than in rehearsals. I was hearing a higher part next to me rather than a lower part. Interestingly, I played tenor TBN at church last Sun. (Beethoven - "The Heavens are Telling ...") with piano accompaniment. I noticed myself instantly adjusting my slide to lock in with the piano, thereby restoring at least some confidence in my pitch discernment. (An interesting aside - the pastor asked me to explain to the young children how I knew where to place the slide to get different pitches as I was using no valves or keys. I explained about the seven general positions, and then added that I was also listening to the pianist's notes as she was playing. He then said that he noticed the pianist was also listening to me. A great lesson for the children about teamwork! Someone in the congregation familiar with that piece later told me that I also succeeded in communicating the words in the original choral version of that work through my instrumental interpretation. That's what keeps me playing!) Back to the ensemble tuning issue: At the risk of pointing out the obvious, I am now going to try to get our group to stop to tune a couple of times each rehearsal, so to (hopefully) minimize the pitch variance. ("Can we tune? I am having a little trouble with my intonation.") We do warm up each time with one or two Bach chorales, but people don't always keep adjusting once they feel initially locked in. Also, in the snow country of Syracuse, our instruments and the room may still be getting warmer even after playing our warm-ups. Yet another factor for us is the sometimes late arrivals of one or more members (usually valid reasons) which then changes the ensemble's blend (and sometimes pitch). I particularly appreciated Sabutin's suggestion of playing where the pitch seems LEAST out of tune. Are there any other suggestions that have helped with other strong amateur or semi-professional groups? Thanks! Jim Shake ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:12:48 -0600 From: Jeff Hettling To: Trombone-l Subject: Re: Rousseau's Piece Concertante Message-ID: <387F671F.74655997@starpoint.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wanted to say thanks to all those who responded. I finally understand what you mean. Thanks again, Jeff From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:18:08 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Modular Jazz Message-ID: <000201bf5ebc$f07ab760$a38901d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Waage wrote: > > It all ends up sounding like Bb blues. Good in Bb, but not good in E . . . ;-) There's no such key as E, unless you play guitar :) A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:36:42 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <000001bf5ebc$ee386880$a38901d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: John Capon To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Bass Trombone > Bass Trombone, IMNSHP, is a mis-nomer(sp?). The Bass Trombone as we know > it, is a big tenor. Hmmm, I don't think I can go along with that. You could say that a Tenor trombone is a "Big Trumpet" (which indeed, the word "Trombone" actually means), but it doesn't sound like a trumpet. Neither does the Bass Trombone sound like a Tenor Trombone. I should imagine that the only reason The Bass & Tenor are both basically pitched in Bb is one of convenience, to allow a player to swap from one to the other. Personally, now that I have established myself as a Bass Trombonist, I find it difficult to switch back to Tenor. The fact that the Bass has a wider bore than the Tenor makes it a different instrument. It uses a different mouthpiece. You need a different embouchure and breath control to play it. The Bass is designed to play in a lower range than the Tenor, hence the addition of two valves to make it full chromatic down to its lowest pedal. > Bass Trombone players, especially in symphonic > situations, are expected to play in the tenor range. ie., Tannhauser, > Lohengrin, Coppelia, Franck Symphony in D minor, etc. That is true, but this music was probably written originally for a Tenor/Bass Trombone, a smaller Bb instrument with F attachment. Many arranger/composers, even today, do not seem to understand that it is not as easy to play high notes on a Bass as it is on Tenor, or that high notes sound different on the Bass. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:38:28 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) Message-ID: <002301bf5ebe$8e25c3a0$0fef94d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF5E7B.7EC39B00"
All:
 
I am continually surprised and impressed at how much can be achieved given the limitations of using the same 12 notes (together with an infinite variety of rhythm and timbres).  That anyone can truly create an "original" work, in any style,  is truly astounding. 
 
Rod Ellard
 
 From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:33:18 -0500 From: BrianB@PR-CN.COM To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Bass Trombone Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> Bass Trombone, IMNSHP, is a mis-nomer(sp?). The Bass >> Trombone as we know it, is a big tenor. > Hmmm, I don't think I can go along with that. You could say > that a Tenor trombone is a "Big Trumpet" > but it doesn't sound like a trumpet. Neither does > the Bass Trombone sound like a Tenor Trombone. I'll just throw some fuel on the fire here. *Technically*, I would have to agree with the first statement. Bass trombone is a misnomer in the way that the terms "bass" and "tenor" apply to other instruments. Generally, bass and tenor instruments will have a different fundamental pitch. As I believe original "bass" trombones did (F or G?). What can be really confusing for the newbie is that alto trombones do have a different fundamental pitch than a tenor whereas the bass does not. As for instruments sounding different. The bass trombone is designed to operate better in the low range. To say that it is different because it sounds different ignores the fact that are many different trombones that sound very different and they all have the same fundamental pitch. Brian From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:39:13 -0800 From: Chris Tune To: astro@pconline.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) Message-ID: <012e01bf5ec7$09ff6aa0$c4d9aace@ultrascsi> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012B_01BF5E83.FB1A6140"
This corresponds closely to my feelings about composition.  These arguments that "everything has already been said" were part of the intellectual underpinnings (or discussion, anyway) surrounding serial, "twelve-tone" music in the 1920's and 30's.  While it is true that the more a particular harmonic or compositional approach has been used, the more difficult it becomes the be "original", I believe there is plenty of room to expand or develop existing systems of composition.  You can most easily see the "hackneyed" stuff in "commercial" implementations of either western art music such as late romantic style orchestral music (used very commonly in scoring adventure movies for Hollywood movies) or Easy Listening, or "Wave" style Jazz (sometimes called "LA Sh#t Jazz"), which is simply shoddy, derivative "fusion" music.
 
Still, in some of the same areas you can see the light of real originality.  We have some excellent film scoring successes by the likes of Herrman, Jarre and Goldsmith (there are many actually, who are careful not to wallow in derivative materials but try to make something of the commercial environment).  The same goes for fusion composing a la Hancock, Zawinul, Silver, Shorter and so many more.
 
I think that the true correlation here is "talent" and "honesty".  We find both in a small subset of the composing public.  When honesty teams with talent, some innovation seems to be brought to the fore.  It really isn't a function of the time we live in or the compositional tools, so much it is simply the likelihood that another Ellington or Porter will take up composing and will be heard and published.  I think it happens all the time, but we have to be honest and sorta "talented" in picking up recordings and attending concerts. 
 
If I really wanted to go hear a soprano sax player play a single note for nearly an hour, I wouldn't kid myself that I'd seen a feat of brilliant musicianship!  It's more akin to seeing a circus show:  Entertaining but not life-changing.
 
Christopher R. Tune
 
 
Cell (818) 468-4767
Home (818) 763-9397
 
*********************************************
There are just two rules in life:
1. Don't tell people everything you know.
*********************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Coyle
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh)

The argument that there is no original jazz out there anymore is a little jaded in my opinion.  Of course, with a medium that is based on improvisation you're going to find that many people rely on "cliches" or other conventions that even people who have run out of ideas can play. 
 
<snip, snip>
 From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:07:09 -0500 From: "Bennett, Gordon (Contractor)" To: "'TBone List'" Subject: RE: Bass Trombone Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To play devil's advocate a little bit: Adrian wrote: "The fact that the Bass has a wider bore than the Tenor makes it a different instrument. It uses a different mouthpiece." The difference in bore between a .525 tenor and a .547 tenor is .022. The difference in bore between a .547 tenor bone and a .562 "bass" bone is .015. Does this mean that there is a stronger argument to say that .525 and .547 bore horns should be regarded as totally different instruments than to say that .547 tenors and .562 basses (bassi?) are different instruments? Or take the fact that the mouthpieces used with .525 horns and those used with .547 horns have different *shanks* and are totally non-compatible, whereas you can use the same mouthpiece on a .547 tenor or on a .562 bass. Again, you could argue that it is the .525 and .547 instruments that are the "different instruments." Having said all that with the intention of stirring up trouble (er, um, I mean, "stimulating further discussion"), I know that my "common sense" (such as it is) tells me that the .562 bass bone is a different instrument. (Of course, this could be because I've been indoctrinated this way by a vast right-wing conspiracy.) But perhaps it can be seen why it would be difficult to explain to a person who is not "trombone-knowledgeable" why the bass bone should be regarded as such. Gordon Bennett Harris Air Traffic Control Communications "It's been my observation that 90% of statisticians pretty much ruin it for the other 30%." - Keith Sullivan From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:24:08 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <200001142024.NAA124142@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: BrianB@PR-CN.COM trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from BrianB@PR-CN.COM 01/14/00 2:33pm -0500 > *Technically*, I would have to agree with the first statement. Bass trombone > is a misnomer in the way that the terms "bass" and "tenor" apply to other > instruments. Generally, bass and tenor instruments will have a different > fundamental pitch. As I believe original "bass" trombones did (F or G?). > What can be really confusing for the newbie is that alto trombones do have a > different fundamental pitch than a tenor whereas the bass does not. It's really a matter of traditions in different instrument families. Consider the horns -- a single Bb horn is considered to belong to the same general class as the single F horn, as is the duplex Bb/F horn. As far as I'm aware, the only horn that has an attached adjective is the descant (in high Bb or high F or high Eb). Composers do not specify the instrument, the choice is left to the discretion of the player. Or consider the tubas. Eb/F tubas could be called BASS tubas, and CC/BBb tubas could be called CONTRABASS tubas, but they usually aren't. Again, choice of instrument is left to the discretion of the player. In the case of the trombone, there were Eb or F BASS (called quart or quint) trombones which survived into the 20C in central Europe. But in the middle of the 19C, the Bb/F tenor-bass trombone began to replace the quart and quint instruments. The instrument was just more facile technically -- handles on the slide make things awkward. By the postwar period, the Bb/F tenor-bass had replaced the old quart and quint trombones almost completely. Manufacturers worked on the instrument to sound more like the old instruments. Bigger bores, bigger bells, slower bell flares, and different lead pipe configurations are used. The players who preceded us had a habit of calling the lowest (commonly used) trombone a bass trombone. It may be variously built in Bb, Bb/F, Bb/F/D -- but by tradition it's still a bass. A parallel situation existed in North American brass bands in the mid to late 19C. There were valve instruments pitched in 8ft Bb (like the tenor trombone) named "Tenor" and "Bass". The bass is a larger bore instrument with a different bell flare (it pretty closely resembles what we call a Euphonium). So the bottom line on things, etymologically and historically speaking is this: You say to' may toe, I say to mah' toe, but I'll still be playing bass trombone parts on a 50B and tenor parts on a 36. Dennis -- > > As for instruments sounding different. The bass trombone is designed to > operate better in the low range. To say that it is different because it > sounds different ignores the fact that are many different trombones that > sound very different and they all have the same fundamental pitch. > > Brian Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:14 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:31:16 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: HTML E-Mails Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please do not send e-mails formatted with HTML or "rich text encodings" to the trombone-l. While these are compatible with most e-mail software, there are several (most notably the UNIX software PINE) that do not work well with HTML-encoded e-mails. If you are using Microsoft Outlook Express, HTML encoding is the default and you will need to change this. Thank you for your consideration of others. LM --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:43:46 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Bass Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline I don't think there's much to the 'bass' vs. 'large tenor' debate. Like most labelling conventions, its just a matter of convenience and habit. Its easier to call it a bass trombone than "that big slidey/valvey thing that is played by trombone players who like generally to play lower than the other trombone players". I realize that in some instruments, the 'bass' instruments are in a different key. Big deal. Thomas Hampson and Placido Domingo are both men with fundamentally similar vocal chords, yet I've never heard anyone say Hampson, a bass baritone, is just an oversized Domingo. From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:52:34 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Male chorus and trombones? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A question: Apart from Bruckner's Offertorium, "Inveni David", does anyone know any classical compositinos for male chorus and trombones (any number of trombones)? Thanks very much. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:50:53 -0500 From: sabutin@mindspring.com To: slide.rule@adios.co.uk Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <200001142052.PAA31124@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:36 AM 1/14/00 +0000, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Capon >To: Trombones and related issues forum. >Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 5:58 PM >Subject: Re: Bass Trombone > > >> Bass Trombone, IMNSHP, is a mis-nomer(sp?). The Bass Trombone as we know >> it, is a big tenor. > >Hmmm, I don't think I can go along with that. You could say that a Tenor >trombone is a "Big Trumpet" (which indeed, the word "Trombone" actually >means), but it doesn't sound like a trumpet. Neither does the Bass Trombone >sound like a Tenor Trombone. ======================== I'm not sure about ANY of that... The so-called "tenor" trombone includes sounds so diverse as Dorsey, J.J. and Joe Alessi...not to mention the hundreds of other almost instantly recognizable sounds others get from a "tenor" trombone. Maybe the nomenclature is wrong, or at least incomplete. Singers are typed more specifically...lyric tenor, dramatic tenor, baritone, bass...even finer distinctions. Why not apply that concept to trombones? I really consider most good contemporary orchestral trombonists as being "baritone" trombone players. Not that they can't play high, just that their tone is broad in the manner of a great baritone singer. Now listen to the trombone virtuosi of the beginning of this century...Mantia et al...SO heavily influenced by the Bel Canto tenor singers who were superstars during that time. Tenors to a man. Same thing goes for jazz players. More tenorish until the '50s + '60s, then more baritonish. (In general...) And WHY did this change??? Acoustics, amplification/recording, and at least in jazz, ensemble size. Simply put, higher and brighter is easier to hear in complicated sonic situations than lower + darker, and microphones change that equation somewhat... No way J.J. could have played the way he does and be heard w/The Woody Herman Orchestra when Bill Harris was the main trombone soloist. He'd probably have pulled it off, but compromises would have had to have been made to do so. Bill Harris, on the other hand, sounded more than a little forced in small group situations, but just SAILED over the Herman Band. Orchestral players have solved the darker/harder to hear syndrome by becoming astoundingly loud over the last 30 years or so. Dramatic baritones on steroids. I think of myself (at least when I'm in a situation where I can play the way I really want to), Jimmy Knepper, Robin Eubanks, Slide Hampton, for example, as baritone trombonists also...J.J. and Teagarden as lighter baritones (or heavier tenors...), players like Jimmy Cleveland, Lawrence Brown and Urbie as more lyric tenors, Bill Harris, Al Grey and many of the latin trombonists as being more dramatic tenors... Dave Steinmeyer plays a "tenor" trombone in the high alto range. What is HE ??? I know real bass trombonists with GREAT 10th partial Ds, and the facility to move all over the horn...what are THEY??? What they ARE is they're all TROMBONISTS...Bb trombonists at that (valves notwithstanding...). A Bb bass trombone is a very BIG trombone; a Bb baritone trombone is a PRETTY big trombone; a Bb tenor trombone is a medium to fairly SMALL trombone...and a Bb ALTO trombone shoots little tiny legumes. ============================== > >I should imagine that the only reason The Bass & Tenor are both basically >pitched in Bb is one of convenience, to allow a player to swap from one to >the other. Personally, now that I have established myself as a Bass >Trombonist, I find it difficult to switch back to Tenor. ===================== I wonder about that too... I think at least some of the common B flatness of it all has to do with the length of the slide. Any longer, and the average person can't reach (or maneuver in) 6th + 7th positions. (I know the triggers are supposed to take care of that, but even w/triggers, you need to be able to play most of what you need w/the open horn. Thayers, Greenhoes, some alien technology from the Roswell incident, it makes no difference...the open horn sounds better, whenever possible.) Any SHORTER slide, and the positions are just too close, the adjustments too fine, for most human beings. I often wondered why there weren't numerous horns in C or Eb used for high parts, why the slide trumpet never really made it...until I spent a few days w/ a really good Eb alto. It's not the SOUND that's bothersome...the damned slide's too short !!! Really...at first I thought I'd just have to adjust, after years of Bb playing, but after a few days I began to realize that the very SCALE of a Bb slide is correct for the mass of the slide and the general build of most humans. On a Bb slide, you have the perfect ratios to be able to adjust pitches finely. On an alto, adjust the pitch and you've moved a half step. The slide trumpet's even WORSE.Twitch and you've moved a minor third. That's why all the double slide attempts seem to have failed. Makes sense...make the slide half as long and play twice as fast. Doesn't ever seem to work out, though...too touchy... ===================== > >The fact that the Bass has a wider bore than the Tenor makes it a different >instrument. It uses a different mouthpiece. You need a different >embouchure and breath control to play it. ===================== I'm not so sure about that one, either. I use basically the same "embouchures" in each range...that is, if I'm playing high on the bass trombone I use the same setting I do when I play high on tenor, ditto in reverse. Same breath control, too. The tenor is just easier to PLAY high, the bass easier to play LOW. (And yes, they certainly sound different.) You get to thinking they're different embouchures, but they're not, really. Play a tenor trombone down through the pedals and below, and you'll be playing it the same way as you would a bass...just not quite as wide an aperture. (Smaller diameter rim). To conclude, another Jimmy Knepper story... I was once involved in a clinic situation w/him, and one of the students asked "Do you try to make the trombone sound more like a trumpet or a french horn?" There were the customary few beats of Knepperian silence, and then he said..." I try to make it sound like a trombone..." later... S. ---snip--- From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:04:35 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" To get a bit of perspective on the bass trombone from a musical instrument curator at a fine museum (who understands the history and development of the instrument very well) and as well is a fine bass trombonist himself, see the web site of Nick Eastop (Bass trombonist of the Chamber Orchestra of Europe) at: http://www.eastop.net And be prepared to see some truly amazing photos of bass trombones as well. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:23:20 -0500 From: will connelly To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: TROMBONE-L digest 1569 Message-ID: <387FA1D7.1FFCAC67@ocean.nova.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi . . . Does anyone on this list know if there's anything similar for bass fiddles? I am trying to help the widow of bassist Ray Brown (the white one, who was on Francis Craig's 1945 hit recording "Near You") sell his instruments. Thanks for any suggestions. Will Connelly From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 00 15:53:20 -0700 From: John Capon To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > With regard to your equipment, you are using pretty standard stuff. You >can futz about with stuff (the Achilles heal of Bass trombonists, I might >add) or live with what you have and make the best of it. I think the >solution to your "problem" is simply practice. You got that right Jim. John From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:31:23 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: <000001bf5eeb$fc8d2fe0$1d3b63c3@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:57 AM Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces > <> > > Ah yes. Tom Izzo. The only person I know who has a mute truck. Well actually, he has the full range of mute trucks, piccolo to sub-contrabass. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:23:19 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Male chorus and trombones? Message-ID: <004201bf5eee$bb707500$d9190f3f@default> Come on Doug! You're doing this just to get me in trouble, aren't you :-) Anyway, I could name any of several dozen compositions for male chorus and trombone. Any vocal works by Gabrielli, Augustine and Jeronimo Bassano, Adriaan Willaert, Alessanro Grandi, and about any one else writing choral music prior to the Protestant Reformation, or Roman Catholic music after until the 1800's. Why, very simple. Women were not allowed to sing in Church, so the choir music that comes from that period was all intended for male vocals. The idea of women singing the soprano parts is a rather new innovation in Church music, and often the melody is in the tenor part (and even the bass). The following would make a rather lasting impression on any audience: Giovanni Gabrieli Hic est filius Dei a 18 - 2 male counter tenors, 1 bass, 11 trombones, 3 bassoon. Buccinate in neomenia tuba a 12 - male choir, 9 trombones Sonata con voce a 20 (Dulcis Jesu) - male choir and soloists, 8 trombones + other bass strings There are others such as "O Magnum mysterium", and trombones dominate the beginning of "Jubilate Deo". All of these pieces are first rate pieces with the trombones providing a powerful platform for some incredible lyrics. Of course, modern bazookas are pretty much out of the question unless you are going to mike the choir since these are pretty much one man to a part pieces. When properly done (even with modern instrumentation), the results can be flooring for anyone listening. You may be at a disadvantage without cornetti, but violins work just fine for the soprano lines (which is nearly always instrumental). DON'T use trumpets!!! The melody and impact are in the lower registers, not up high. I'll probably get tons of scholarly disagreement on the above, to which I blow a nice pedal F :-) Ken Dowdy ps, I nearly blew up my spell checker on this post! -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Yeo To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 2:51 PM Subject: Male chorus and trombones? >A question: > >Apart from Bruckner's Offertorium, "Inveni David", does anyone know >any classical compositinos for male chorus and trombones (any number >of trombones)? > >Thanks very much. > >-Doug Yeo > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:48:59 -0800 From: "Les Benedict" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Modular Jazz Message-ID: <001901bf5eee$6ac22900$46ebb3d1@s8y2d3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > It all ends up sounding like Bb blues. Good in Bb, but not good in E ... ;-) > There's no such key as E, unless you play guitar :) > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) ... unless you (got) volunteered to solo on "The Song Is You," and all of a sudden you're at the bridge ... Les Benedict lesbenedict@earthlink.net http://expage.com/page/goldrushband From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 00 16:35:58 -0700 From: John Capon To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" ......... I really consider most good contemporary orchestral trombonists as being "baritone" trombone players.......... Sabutin, As usual, you say it better than most of us and especially me. I am not sure whether you are disagreeing with me on this, however, I agree with all of what you wrote. I believe that the young person who started this thread was needing a little advise that put simply says " Bass trombonists need to be prepared to play in the high tenor register so here is how I keep myself in that space." It seemed that he was having trouble with his high chops. I believe George Roberts has been quoted on this list as thinking about the Bass Trombone as a Baritone Trombone and Nick Eastop ( who we have not heard from for sometime) talked about the Bass Trombone as a Baritone instrument. (He was fabricating what he considered to be the Real Bass Trombone at the time he was active on this list. I have not heard whether he thought he had successfully solved the business of making the Bass Trombone of his dreams!!) Having recorded a Jazz Cd this past summer playing my venerable Fuchs model Conn 62H I found that I naturally chose the Baritone register most of the time. ( whatever that is - I guess from F above the staff down to low F. With a Bass player, player lower often sounds a bit wierd, IMHO, feels funny as well. Having said that, I played the head on Confirmation in octave unison with the Bass player, he played an octave higher than I did. It sounded interesting. So, go figure!! Respectfully, John John Capon Music Director, Malaspina Choir Artistic Director, Summer Jazz Academy Brass Instructor, Malaspina University/College Leader, John Capon Quartet Music Director, Gabriola Chamber Players R.R. 1, Site 3, C14 Gabriola, BC, Canada V0R 1X0 phone: 250 247 8531 http://www.islandnet.com/~bigbird/ My new CD - "Full Circle"is now available at Brad Howlands site http://www.musicforbrass.com/index.html Email: bigbird@islandnet.com fax: 250 247 9357 (please phone 250 247 8531 first to make sure fax is on) From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:57:54 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sabutin@mindspring.com wrote: >......... I really consider most good contemporary orchestral >trombonists as being >"baritone" trombone players.......... > In most orchestral situations, bass trombonists act like the bridge between the tenor trombones and the tuba, a musical switch-hitter, if you will. At one moment, the bass trombone is filling out the harmony as trombonist, the next rattling the bottom as a tuba. It has to be almost a chameleon in character to function appropriately. That's what makes it fun! Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit the Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:15 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:08:26 -0500 From: "stevencarr" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <060e01bf5ef5$06febee0$173d0818@cc938625-a.narltn1.nj.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sabutin wrote: on the bass vs tenor debate > > Dave Steinmeyer plays a "tenor" trombone in the high alto range. What is >HE ??? counter tenor ;-) PS: Seriously, I think this Sabutin nailed this. If I get a call for tenor trombone do I bring my King 2b or 3b or Bach 42. I need more info (or a bigger trunk) to have the right axe when I show up. From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:58:30 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: mp3 on Douglas Yeo web site Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm pleased to announce a major update to my website. Since my site went online in 1996, I have been asked many times if I would include sound clips. In the past, I haven't been satisfied with the quality of most sound I've heard on the web (RealAudio, etc) for reproduction of music or spoken word, but with the advent of mp3, that has all changed. For those interested, I now have a number of mp3 files on my site with more to be added soon. For those unfamilar with mp3, I have a brief introduction to the format on my page as well as links to sites where you can download free mp3 players for Mac and PC. At the moment, you will find 7 mp3 clips of tracks from my solo CD "Proclamation" and 5 mp3 clips of tracks from my CD "Take 1." You can also find an interview I gave for the Canadian Broadcast Corporation recently in which I spoke about and played the serpent. Next week I will be adding some clips from the New England Brass Band CD "Christmas Joy!" (including a bit of my bass trombone solo on "Frosty the Snowman") and I will also add a few "sneak preview" clips from my new upcoming CD release, "Cornerstone" which will be released in March. Soon to follow will be orchestral excerpts and other things I hope will be interesting to those who visit my site. You can get to the mp3 page of my site directly from the my page: http://www.yeodoug.com (just click on the orange "mp3 selections" icon) or go directly to: http://www.yeodoug.com/yeomp3.html To those who have always wanted to "try before you buy" a disc, or who just enjoy the mp3 format, I hope this enhances your visits to my site. All the best, -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:12:02 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: sorry... Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Apologies for the multiple posting! -Doug ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:14:41 EST From: ROSEBONE@aol.com To: yeo@yeodoug.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Male chorus and trombones? Message-ID: <8a.3afdaf.25b14021@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/14/00 2:51:38 PM, yeo@yeodoug.com writes: << Apart from Bruckner's Offertorium, "Inveni David", does anyone know any classical compositinos for male chorus and trombones (any number of trombones)? >> I am aware of a couple- one by Fischer Tull - (name and publisher escape me- up at school in the office) and an unpublished work by composer Robert Jordahl "We did not sing in Eden" for TTBB/4trombones *this work was commissioned by our Sinfonia chapter, and has been performed at local and regional Sinfonia workshops and recitals over the last 10 years. Bill Rose McNeese State University Lake Charles, LA rosebone@aol.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:17:46 PST From: "posaune rex" To: swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Dallas Opera Results Message-ID: <20000115031746.28737.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello, I'm wondering if anyone on the list, maybe Mr. Swanson, knows the results of the Dallas Opera audition? thanks, stacy werblin stacy werblin Eastman School of Music posaune_rex@hotmail.com http://uhura.cc.rochester.edu/~sw002g ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 03:37:24 GMT From: "Terry Timberlake" To: erin_denise18@hotmail.com Subject: Sincere testimony Message-ID: <20000115033735.32700.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I want to exclaim great praise to God for what He has done in my life. He gives me the power to live everyday despite all of my imperfections and faults, He gives me more than I could ever ask for, He gives me such a complete happiness that I never would have imagined possible. Through Him I have gained more than I ever could in my own lifetime alone. I have discovered a kind of serenity that only accepting Him can provide. I no longer have troublesome worries, I no longer wake up every wondering what things will happen. Several times a day I lift my eyes to Him and pray that He lead me in whatever direction He will. I give Him complete control over my life and everything that I do. I only pray that everyone in the world find this happiness as well, for you do not know when it will be too late. He loved us so much that He sent His own son to die for us, that is such a wonderful love. His love is pure. His love is unconditional, how many others can we say that about? I want to say that I love the Lord. He gives me such an inner peace. He makes me want to love everyone. We are lucky to have such a gracious God. He forgives us for all we do. He offers us eternal life. He provides for us, and most of all, He loves us when we feel unloved. Please, if you have not accepted Christ as your savior, re-evaluate your life and priorities. Eternal life awaits us, we have only to accept the truth and have faith in Him. So please, if you haven't, accept Jesus into your life. I can't begin to describe the freedom, the peace, love, and acceptance that you will receive in return. I wish everybody a very happy born-again life. Terry <>< ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:55:07 EST From: MikeSuter@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <16.8497a6.25b1499b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A bass trombone is a big ol' hollow metal thing. You know it's a bass trombone because the company that made it called it one. But the difference between all the various members of the trombone family lies in the players. Bass trombone is a state of mind - or a state of being. I'm a bass trombone player. Whatever's on my shoulder - regardless of size, configuration, or materials, is a bass trombone because I make it sound that way. So do you. And the same goes for alto, tenor, symphonic, or . . . you name it. Doesn't it get hard to make music when you're all caught up in minutia? Think less. Play more. All The Best, Mike Suter From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:25:53 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: FROM THE LIST MONITOR Re: Sincere testimony Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have privately corresponded with the sender, and no further discussion of this post is necessary. LM From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:48:07 EST From: Posaune9@aol.com To: posaune_rex@hotmail.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Dallas Opera Results Message-ID: <49.73bdce.25b15607@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Stacy and all interested: The principal trombone position in the Dallas Opera was won by Jimmy Clark. Jimmy is also principal trombone in the Dallas Wind Symphony. Great player, great friend, and excellent teacher. Ryan Johnstone Curtis Institute of Music Philadelphia, PA (215) 496-9266 From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:46:43 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Originality Message-ID: <009b01bf5f4e$eb3d1580$082b63c3@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodney Ellard To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Jazz, legit, new age - good vs bad (longinsh) > I am continually surprised and impressed at how much can be achieved given the limitations of using the same 12 notes (together with an infinite variety of rhythm and timbres). That anyone can truly create an "original" work, in any style, is truly astounding. > ======================= As Quincy Jones once said "Writing music is easy. There are only 12 notes. You just have to put them in the right order". When you think of it. No new work can be absolutely original. Put any two notes together and you will find that someone else has done it before. So any new composition has to be stolen a bit at a time from a thousand and one other composers. Same deal with Improvisation. Just imagine having to fight a thousand and one law suits every time you invent something "new". A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:50:10 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Sam Burtis" Cc: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <009c01bf5f4e$ec481ce0$082b63c3@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Bass Trombone > Really...at first I thought I'd just have to adjust, after years of Bb > playing, but after a few days I began to realize that the very SCALE of a > Bb slide is correct for the mass of the slide and the general build of most > humans. On a Bb slide, you have the perfect ratios to be able to adjust > pitches finely. 'cept on a dual-rotor (independant) bass, there are 4 sets of positions to learn on the Bb slide. I've always wondered why bass trombonists don't get paid doubling money. > On an alto, adjust the pitch and you've moved a half step. > The slide trumpet's even WORSE.Twitch and you've moved a minor third. Haha. I have a Robb Stewart soprano 'bone (notice I don't use the "s---- t------" words on this list) which I never play. I've never been able to figure out how to get from Bb to B (or should I say C to C#?) without falling off the end. Apart from that, I don't know how to get my chops inside the mp. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 17 08:19:16 2000 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:44:44 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass Trombone Message-ID: <009a01bf5f4e$ea308780$082b63c3@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: John Capon To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 11:35 PM Subject: Re: Bass Trombone > I believe George Roberts has been quoted on this list as thinking about > the Bass Trombone as a Baritone Trombone That figures. As far as I know, George never did use a dual-rota bass. Although I've heard him play a lick (or was it 2 licks) on one of the Kenton vinyls that covers a 4 octave range (pedal D to telegraph pole D), he has always urged his younger followers to listen to the style of Frank Sinatra. The solo parts on George's latest Music Minus One CDs are all centred around the vocal baritone range. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk