TROMBONE-L Digest 1568 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: audition expectations and the Pokemon (Bedroom) Suite by kingbone@earthlink.net 2) bass mouthpcs for sale by Bruce Tracy 3) Marcinkiewicz Mpcs by 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) 4) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Chris Waage 5) RE: Solfege, was Practicing High Stuff by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 6) test, ignore by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 7) Re: FW: thayer valves - not! by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 8) RE: audition expectations and the Pokemon (Bedroom) Suite by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 9) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur 10) Re: Morceau Symphonique orch parts? by James Scott 11) RE: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs by "James O'Briant" 12) RE: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs by Chris Waage 13) Mark Lawrence masterclass by Tbcwes@aol.com 14) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Bob Koester 15) Re: Overhaul by "Stewart M. Crane" 16) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Jim Robins 17) Re: Auditions and preparation by Dennis Clason 18) Re: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs by BassBonist@aol.com 19) Mark Lawrence masterclass revised by Tbcwes@aol.com 20) For sale: Edwards bass Thayer double valve section & tuning slide by Joestanko@aol.com 21) Fwd: Edwards 1995 Tenor For Sale by ToddAmy1@aol.com 22) RE: A Screwball Observation by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 23) Re: Overhaul by Thomas Nelson 24) FW: All that Jazz; was appropriateness (was Audition Question) by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 25) Re: appropriateness by "Tom C. Shaddox" 26) RE: FW: thayer valves - not! by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 27) Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. by Mike Coyle 28) RE: All that Jazz; was appropriateness (was Audition Question) by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 29) RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Howard Weiner 30) Annual ISU Trombone Workshop by Stephen Parsons 31) Re: Auditions and preparation by Neobopr@aol.com 32) Smell the Roses by "Joe L. Norcross" 33) Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. by "Tarpley Webmaster" 34) Early jazz trombone players by hamprod@mindspring.com 35) Re: Smell the Roses by Mike Coyle 36) RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Beth Lewis 37) Slide treatment. by Reyes 38) Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. by Mike Coyle 39) Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. by Mike Coyle 40) question by EMRose79@aol.com 41) Re: question by "James Yardley" 42) Re: question, how to subscribe to trumpet list by Bill Fatch 43) Re: thayer valves - not! by Jim Tempest 44) Re: Slide treatment. by Dennis Clason 45) Re: Slide treatment. by MikeSuter@aol.com 46) Re: Appropriateness All-State by Dave Burch 47) FW: musical athletes (long) by "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" 48) Rousseau's Piece Concertante by Jeff Hettling 49) posts not going through! by Mike Coyle 50) musical athletes by Mike Coyle 51) Re: Slide treatment. by Mike Coyle 52) apology for multiple posts by Mike Coyle 53) IAJE by daboneman 54) Re: Texas All-State tryouts by daboneman 55) Re: IAJE by FOpal@aol.com 56) Trombone/other woodwind duet by FOpal@aol.com 57) RE: Slide treatment. by "Eric" 58) Re: Burnout (was All-State tryouts) by BassBonist@aol.com 59) RE: Appropriateness All-State by "Eric" 60) Re: Texas All-State tryouts by Posaune9@aol.com 61) Mouthpieces by "Eric" 62) Bass Trombone by "Eric" 63) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Elisabeth Frederick 64) Re: Texas All-State tryouts by TAMU001@aol.com 65) Trombone/WW Duets (was Re: IAJE) by Beth Lewis 66) Vincent Bach 50T by "Eric" 67) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by r.neeracher@bluemail.ch From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:01:47 -0500 From: kingbone@earthlink.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: audition expectations and the Pokemon (Bedroom) Suite Message-ID: <387C8949.6C60EB6@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Dowdy wrote (in part) ... "I'm 38 years old and I just purchased a Pikachu blanket for myself, and I'm not one darn bit ashamed of it!!" That is all well and good, Kenneth, but is it the KING SIZE Pikachu blanket, or did you WIMP OUT and get the SINGLE BED Pikachu blanket? You know EVERYONE has the KING SIZE blanket. It's what all the pros use! And in the "Pika-CHUUUUUUUUUU!" cadenza, do you play that high F# or do you WIMP OUT and take it down an octave? And, do you call that a Thunderjolt? Do it AGAIN! AGAIN! Hah! You will be washed up at 39! Next applicant! .... By the way, the preceding was all (triple)tongue in cheek. :-) Dave Molter Pittsburgh, PA From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:06:28 -0600 From: Bruce Tracy To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: bass mouthpcs for sale Message-ID: <387C8A64.71B794E4@kckpl.lib.ks.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For Sale: Yeo/Yamaha Bass Trombone Mouthpiece (some plating wear on shank) $70 or best offer. Mt. Vernon Bach 1-1/2G Bass Mouthpiece (some outer wear, some plating wear at bottom of cup; otherwise unaltered) Make me an offer. Mt. Vernon Bach 1-1/2G with open throat and open backbore (purchased from Bob Harper---his initials stamped on the outside of the cup. Make me an offer. Direct inquiries to Bruce Tracy btracy@kckpl.lib.ks.us From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:20:23 GMT From: 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs Message-ID: <387d8cf1.3076791@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear listers, Does anyone know the current status of Marcinkiewicz mpcs? I have been trying to get a Dave Steinmeyer model small piece here in melbourne, but I'm told by the bone player that runs the shop that they are 'unavailable' (can be ordered, but suppliers - marcinkievicz - can't provide a delivery date). He has apparently tried ww&bw, gardinellis, etc and all have given the same answer. Any info would be great. Simon Greatwood Australia From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:23:36 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is something I've struggled with for the past year and a half. I spent 18 years playing nothing but bass trombone, then found myself playing tenor for a symphony. I tried the following mouthpieces for tenor: Bach: 3G, 4G, 5G Schilke: 51D, 52E2, 53, 57 Doug Elliott: LT101G8, LT102G8, LT102H8, LT104H8, LB110G8 Conn: Remington Greg Black: Joseph Alessi #1 I was trying to find that magic combination that worked for the playing demands of principal trombone while not completely destroying my bass trombone chops. Not playing bass trombone wasn't an option - I have too many other gigs on bass to give it up (plus it's my first love!). For me (notice I said ME, not you or anybody else), the Greg Black Joseph Alessi worked best (although I'm now switching to a very similar Doug Elliott). With my primary instrument being bass trombone, and because I was used to playing on such large equipment (Bach 50B3, Schilke 59), the larger tenor mouthpiece works well for me. Would I recommend this to a student? No stinkin' way. There are reasons certain mouthpiece combinations have become popular - they work! The biggest problem is finding the time to invest in the trial and error process. I like what Sabutin has wrote several times about trying a new piece of equipment for two weeks. At first it will feel wonderful, then you'll hate it, but after two weeks you'll know whether it works. The basic criteria is this: If it gives you the appropriate sound for the instrument, allows you to do what you need to do, and doesn't cause you any physical problems, then it's the right mouthpiece for you. Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:40:02 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "'AlRobnett@aol.com'" , "'trombone-l'" Subject: RE: Solfege, was Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Allen sent the following query privately. I hope he won't mind if I answer it publicly, just in case anyone else has the same question. > David, > Thank you for the information. I had already tried some of the ideas, to a > > very limited extent, but using the syllables one, two, three, four, five, > six, sev, eight. Aside from historical precedence, do you think there is > any > reason for me to switch to do, re, mi? > Allen > > Yes! At least two reasons--two and a half, maybe Do re mi etc. has only one meaning--the degrees of the scale. Mi fa can mean only a half step. Numbers mean many things, and 3, 4 can mean anything. It has no value of association. Numbers are useless for chromatic inflections. In C major, an incidental F-sharp that does not signal a modulation is the syllable fi, which has a different relation to do than fa does. What number are you going to use? For a leading tone, 7 has two syllables. I guess you can say "sev". So you'll either louse up the rhythm, which causes problems at faster tempi, or else you have to remember to change one number. This is no big deal, of course, but an unnecessary annoyance given the two big advantages of the syllables. I remember when I was a freshman, I asked my sightsinging teacher why we had to learn the syllables. He just said "They've been teaching sight reading that way for a thousand years." What a crock! A couple of years later, a new guy on the faculty had the bright idea of forming a board of tutors recruited from theory honors students to work with the bottom half of the freshman class. The tutors met with him once a week to discuss procedures and problesm. He insisted that we use the syllables, explained why they work, and showed us exercises for burning the patterns into students' memory to make them less cumbersome to use. Someone mentioned David Glasmire, my trombone teacher at BG. I would here like to pay tribute to Don Wilson, another great teacher. Besides theory, he taught me more about teaching than anyone else I can think of. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:47:53 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: test, ignore Message-ID: <387C9419.9A138025@total.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit test From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:39:02 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: FW: thayer valves - not! Message-ID: <387C9206.13537E9D@total.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tim and list, As for my personal experience, I have found my thayers not that much more labour intensive and the advantage of them to be tremendous. There was someone else who posted that if the valve is labour is a lot to care for there is probably something wrong with that particular valve, not the Thayer valve in general. (For those concerned, when I say Thayer or thayer I mean all axial flow valves). I did have my valve tweaked (pardon?) when I originally bought it from Edwards. Ron Partch in Toronto did the work and it is fine. He has always recommended Holton valve oil as it is the cleanest operating oil. I haven't had problems with my valves since then and only disassemble them to fully clean them every six months or so. Peter Collins richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: > I have to respect the symphony pro's choice of the thayer, but I have come > to believe that most of the rest of us are better off spending more time > playing and less time adjusting and lubricating. From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:48 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:04:40 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: audition expectations and the Pokemon (Bedroom) Suite Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'll have you know that as an avid peashooter fanatic, purchasing the king sized Pikachu blanket would never have crossed my mind. I settled with the Pikachu throw because even the single size seemed a bit "warm" for my tastes. Also, I NEVER take it down an octave. Heck if someone wants pedal tones, I give them a perfect pedal F out of the Schilke 360 that I sit on. PS, I had as much fun writing this as I did reading your post :-) Ken > -----Original Message----- > From: kingbone@earthlink.net [SMTP:kingbone@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 8:02 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: audition expectations and the Pokemon (Bedroom) Suite > > Ken Dowdy wrote (in part) ... > > "I'm 38 years old and I just purchased a Pikachu > blanket for myself, and I'm not one darn bit ashamed of it!!" > > That is all well and good, Kenneth, but is it the KING SIZE Pikachu > blanket, > or did you WIMP OUT and get the SINGLE BED Pikachu blanket? You know > EVERYONE > has the KING SIZE blanket. It's what all the pros use! And in the > "Pika-CHUUUUUUUUUU!" cadenza, do you play that high F# or do you WIMP OUT > and > take it down an octave? And, do you call that a Thunderjolt? Do it AGAIN! > AGAIN! Hah! You will be washed up at 39! Next applicant! .... > > > By the way, the preceding was all (triple)tongue in cheek. :-) > > Dave Molter > Pittsburgh, PA From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:26:41 -0500 From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur To: astro@pconline.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: <387C9D31.98DF0F26@total.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike and list, I use to do more doubling than I do now. I currently concern myself only with bass trombone and bass sackbut. I used to own a tuba, a tenor trombone and would borrow a euph once in a while for some military stuff. For my doubling on modern instruments I ended up buying a whole set of Doug Elliott mouthpieces. One for tuba, one for bass trombone, one rim with two cups for euph and tenor trombone. For those of you that are not familiar with Doug's mouthpieces they are all three pieces so I could have purchased the same rim for everything. This is not my personal philosophy. If one is to play tenor trombone, one should use a tenor trombone mouthpiece and learn to play it to the best of his/her ability. If one is to play tuba then one should use a tuba mouthpiece and learn to play it to the best of his/her ability. Remember that there is a wide range of what is appropriate for each instrument. Some people play very small tenor trombone mouthpieces and some play very large, there will be one that is comfortable for you. As a bass trombone player, mouthpiece size was right in between tenor and tuba. I was able to opt for a largish tenor mouthpiece and smallish tuba mouthpiece and still get appropriate sounds on each. For bass sackbut playing I designed a mouthpiece that was a compromise of early mouthpiece design with dimensions of the bass trombone mouthpiece that I was playing at the time. This allowed me to double a little more efficiently between the two while still maintaining my philosophy for each instrument. Even for bass sackbut, one should play a sackbut mouthpiece in order to get the appropriate sound. At this point in time, my mouthpiece choice for bass trombone has changed since designing the sackbut mouthpiece. When I do it again (soon) I will be creating a mouthpiece that will be more different than my bass trombone mouthpiece and closer to what early makers were creating for sackbuts. I think generally, it is important to learn to play each instrument with an appropriate mouthpiece in order to get the appropriate sound. For myself, I need to spend a lot of time on each instrument in order to attain/maintain some sort of level. This is the main reason I sold the tuba and tenor trombone, I am not a natural player and need to spend a lot of time on bass to maintain a high level that I have set for auditions and work. Remember that these are simply personal observations based on my experiences doubling. There is a wide range of normal and some people will completely disagree with me. This kind of stuff is completely subjective and it boils down to what you feel comfortable doing. Cheers Peter Mike Coyle wrote: > > So, what do y'all think about using different mouthpiece sizes which are > rather close in size (e.g. different trombone mouthpieces). Be honest, be > brave, share your experience. > > Thanks a lot, > > mike From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:27:12 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: Douglas Yeo Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Morceau Symphonique orch parts? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Doug- I understand that Christian Lindberg has a company that rents out his orchestral accompaniment as well as some other arrangements. I believe that it's a link from his web site - don't have the address handy, but someone else could supply that, or a search could provide it. Hope that helps! Jim Scott On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Douglas Yeo wrote: > > > I have had a query from a person who is interested in obtaining the > orchestral accompaniment to the Guilmant "Morceau Symphonique." Any > ideas I can pass on to him? > > Thanks very much. > > -Doug Yeo > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:30:33 -0800 From: "James O'Briant" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Greatwood asked, in part: > Does anyone know the current > status of Marcinkiewicz mpcs? I just tried to check their website to verify that it's still up and running, and I get a "Cannot Find Server" error. But I've been to the site before... http://www.marcinkiewicz.com Jim O'Briant Bayside Music Press Gilroy, CA From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:41:41 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: RE: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I checked an older URL, and it worked: http://www.teleport.com/~mmpco/ Chris >Simon Greatwood asked, in part: > >> Does anyone know the current >> status of Marcinkiewicz mpcs? > >I just tried to check their website to verify that it's still up and >running, and I get a "Cannot Find Server" error. But I've been to the site >before... > > http://www.marcinkiewicz.com > >Jim O'Briant >Bayside Music Press >Gilroy, CA From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:57:18 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: kevinbrodeur@hotmail.com, dclemens@newenglandconservatory.edu, Tuba78ac1@aol.com, sadowdy@yahoo.com, Mikee@mit.edu, Subject: Mark Lawrence masterclass Message-ID: <81.813691df.25adfe5e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Boston Conservatory presents a masterclass by Mark Lawrence, Principal Trombone of the San Fransico Symphony. Mr. Lawrence will work on solo material as well as excerpts with Conservatory students. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- See www.bostonconservatory.edu for more information about the school or traveling directions. From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:18:02 -0600 From: Bob Koester To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000112101802.006a0654@mail.spidertel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:26 AM 1/12/2000 -0500, you wrote: Hi All - Thought I'd throw my opinion on this one. Years ago, many of us thought (a) doubling was illegitimate, and (b) nobody could really do it anyway. Yea, that's right. So, those of us who thought we could usually tried to make the rim constant ie: a 1 1/2 rim on a 7C cup or whatever. That solution can work but NOT under first rate professional conditions. You simply have to use a mouthpiece designed to work on the equipment you are playing for the best, most characteristic results. My personal choices are: Bass: Slightly modified Stork 1.5 or a similarly modified Bach 1 1/2G Tenor: Old Besson euph rim on either a 6 1/2 or 7C cup or a slightly modified Stork T1 Tuba: Schilke 66 Best to all, Bob >Hi Mike and list, > >I use to do more doubling than I do now. I currently concern myself only >with bass trombone and bass sackbut. I used to own a tuba, a tenor >trombone and would borrow a euph once in a while for some military >stuff. > >For my doubling on modern instruments I ended up buying a whole set of >Doug Elliott mouthpieces. One for tuba, one for bass trombone, one rim >with two cups for euph and tenor trombone. For those of you that are not >familiar with Doug's mouthpieces they are all three pieces so I could >have purchased the same rim for everything. This is not my personal >philosophy. If one is to play tenor trombone, one should use a tenor >trombone mouthpiece and learn to play it to the best of his/her ability. >If one is to play tuba then one should use a tuba mouthpiece and learn >to play it to the best of his/her ability. Remember that there is a wide >range of what is appropriate for each instrument. Some people play very >small tenor trombone mouthpieces and some play very large, there will be >one that is comfortable for you. As a bass trombone player, mouthpiece >size was right in between tenor and tuba. I was able to opt for a >largish tenor mouthpiece and smallish tuba mouthpiece and still get >appropriate sounds on each. > >For bass sackbut playing I designed a mouthpiece that was a compromise >of early mouthpiece design with dimensions of the bass trombone >mouthpiece that I was playing at the time. This allowed me to double a >little more efficiently between the two while still maintaining my >philosophy for each instrument. Even for bass sackbut, one should play a >sackbut mouthpiece in order to get the appropriate sound. At this point >in time, my mouthpiece choice for bass trombone has changed since >designing the sackbut mouthpiece. When I do it again (soon) I will be >creating a mouthpiece that will be more different than my bass trombone >mouthpiece and closer to what early makers were creating for sackbuts. > >I think generally, it is important to learn to play each instrument with >an appropriate mouthpiece in order to get the appropriate sound. For >myself, I need to spend a lot of time on each instrument in order to >attain/maintain some sort of level. This is the main reason I sold the >tuba and tenor trombone, I am not a natural player and need to spend a >lot of time on bass to maintain a high level that I have set for >auditions and work. > >Remember that these are simply personal observations based on my >experiences doubling. There is a wide range of normal and some people >will completely disagree with me. This kind of stuff is completely >subjective and it boils down to what you feel comfortable doing. > >Cheers > >Peter > > >Mike Coyle wrote: >> >> So, what do y'all think about using different mouthpiece sizes which are >> rather close in size (e.g. different trombone mouthpieces). Be honest, be >> brave, share your experience. >> >> Thanks a lot, >> >> mike > > _______________________ bob koester mediation services, inc. bkoester@fixbusinessdebt.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:47:43 -0500 From: "Stewart M. Crane" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Overhaul Message-ID: <006201bf5d19$3a7895d0$0101a8c6@stewart> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, Be cautious about relacquering, especially the bell section. Relacquering may change the horn's sound, if only a little, because when the horn is buffed before relacquering, some of the metal will be buffed away. If the buffer isn't very careful, a lot of metal will be buffed away. If the horn is a Mt. Vernon Bach that has never been relacquered, relacquering now will reduce the value. That's my opinion, anyway, Stewart Crane ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Loewen To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 10:07 PM Subject: Overhaul > > It's time to get my trusty Bach 16 completely overhauled - one joint > needs to be resoldered, and it should be completely stripped and > relacquered. I'm looking for recommendations for a place to send it in > the Eastern half of the states, for quality and timely work. Thanks for > any tips. > > > Mike Loewen Tenor/Bass Trombone and Tuba > mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/mloewen.html From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:34:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Robins To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: <20000112163427.1347.qmail@web111.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey all you doublers!! Well, here's my doubling tale. I don't do much of it, but I find that it works, FOR ME. Peashooter (Bach LT16M) - Bach 7C Lead work and funk band Bach 5 Jazz Combo, Legit stuff (if necessary) Big Horn (Bach 42K) - Bach 5GS Bass (Getzen Custom dual thayer) - Bach 1.5G (I very seldom play bass) Euph (usually a Besson) - Bach 5 or 5GS Tuba (one of the school's beaten Mirafones) - Yamaha's equivalent of a Bach 18 or 22 I dont' know which, but it works or a Conn Hellenberg. So, that's my story. Jim ===== James Robins Candidate, BM Music Education - Trombone University of New Hamsphire Kappa Kappa Psi-Iota Phi #44 VPM-HB Fall '99 http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jprobins __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:06:41 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Auditions and preparation Message-ID: <200001121707.KAA270006@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: dja1@axe.humboldt.edu trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from Dan Aldag 01/11/00 3:34pm -0800 > [Although, frankly, I'd be thrilled if _I_ could sound just like > Lindberg on the Creston, let alone one of my students.:)] I'd be thrilled if I had Lindberg's chops, but I'm not at all sure I'd choose to use them the way he has. Which is not to say that Lindberg's wrong. That sort of ability opens up the choices available to you. As far as listening goes, I agree with you that big ears are the most important things a music student can have. But you don't have to listen to the work in question to learn about the idioms in question. Take the David Concertino as an example. A student listening to Lindberg's recording who has good high chops will be tempted to take the recap of the prinicipal theme up an octave. Studying the scores of the period makes it clear that composers knew that 'bones could play up around the top of the treble clef. (This issue started this thread!) I don't believe that players then were all that different from us, at least in regard to wanting to have a useful range that exceeds the demands of the music we're playing. A student studying the David should be listening to music, but I respectfully disagree about listening to recordings of the Concertino. What should they listen to? How about the music that inspired David -- Mendelssohn? Schumann? Earlier trombone concertos, like the Albrechtsberger? The Mozart horn concertos? The Strauss 1st horn concerto is similar in structure and inspiration to the David. I believe THOSE are things a student studying the David should be absorbing. Listening to the David itself leads to imitation, IMO. So, what am I listening to in working on the Lieb? I've been listening to Doug's Proclamation disc, for one thing. I admire Doug's sound -- my son paid me a high compliment recently. I was noodling on Fetter's Dona Nobis Pacem Variations, and he said, "Dad, you sound like that recording you have." I hope he was right. Finding other works by Richard Lieb has been, mmmmm -- difficult. But I've made the assumption that the jazz composer/arranger Dick Lieb is the same guy, so I've been listening to some of his jazz writing. A different idiom, to be sure, but there are similarities. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:07:55 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Marcinkiewicz Mpcs Message-ID: <6c.6cd707b8.25ae0eeb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MMP Co. (503) 263-2456 fax (503) 263-2484 593 S.E. 1st Ave. Canby, Oregon 97013 and; http://www.teleport.com/~mmpco/ Matt From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:00:03 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: Tbcwes@aol.com, kevinbrodeur@hotmail.com, dclemens@newenglandconservatory.edu, Tuba78ac1@aol.com, Subject: Mark Lawrence masterclass revised Message-ID: <70.50d6fd.25ae1b23@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Boston Conservatory presents a masterclass by Mark Lawrence, Principal Trombone of the San Fransico Symphony. February 27, 11:00 AM at TBC's Suelly Hall 8 the Fenway Boston, MA 02215 Mr. Lawrence will work on solo material as well as excerpts with Conservatory students. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- See www.bostonconservatory.edu for more information about the school or traveling directions. From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:49 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:02:16 EST From: Joestanko@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: For sale: Edwards bass Thayer double valve section & tuning slide Message-ID: <73.515777.25ae1ba8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For sale: Edwards bass trombone double valve section, with Thayer valves, and matching Edwards bass trombone main tuning slide. Valve section is F/Gb/D, from 1993 and fits a Bach slide. It has just been checked for alignment, the valves have been cleaned, and the lacquer re-done. The small screw fittings that attach to the bell from each attachment need to be reattached as I had them removed; they will be forwarded at a later time when I find them. The main tuning slide is rose brass, also from 1993, and has just been checked for alignment, dents, lacquer, etc. Price is $1100 for both, and their condition is excellent. I will consider selling separately if I get firm offers for each piece. Buyer pays UPS shipping and insurance from New York City. Full payment must be made prior to shipping; sorry, but I don't have the ability to email or post photos. Please email me privately if interested. Joe Stanko From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:16:43 EST From: ToddAmy1@aol.com To: Trombone-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Edwards 1995 Tenor For Sale Message-ID: <51.2053b4.25ae1f0b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_51.2053b4.25ae1f0b_boundary" Return-path: ToddAmy1@aol.com From: ToddAmy1@aol.com Full-name: ToddAmy1 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 02:46:53 EST Subject: Edwards 1995 Tenor For Sale To: Trombone-L@lists.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 55 Edwards Tenor 1995 321 CF Bell 2 Tuning Slides -Rose/Yellow Standard Slide/Bass Crook Getzen Hard case-new design 4 lead pipes ( T-2 silver) Just overhauled by Pettifor's in Elkhart, IN It is brand-new, not a scatch 2000.00 /obo I need to sell this now.. Make an offer Todd Schendel 708 -358-1289 Contact by phone or by address below tschende@hotmail.com From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:38:05 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'astro@pconline.com'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: A Screwball Observation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Chris: What I want to know is did you try your kids pacifier, or are you getting your young one started early on buzzing exercises? ;-) Rick Marple Sa Antonio Tx -----Original Message----- From: Mike Coyle [mailto:astro@pconline.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 1:51 PM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: A Screwball Observation Actually, yes, I did know that. When I used to play bass trombone I used a newborn's pacifier which was modified by Greg Black. ;-) MC At 11:36 AM 1/11/00 , you wrote: >Did you know that a Schilke 60 is about the same width as a newborn's pacifier? > >;-) > >Chris >_____________________________________________ >Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at > http://www.waageworks.com >_____________________________________________ > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: 12 Jan 2000 10:37:21 -0500 From: Thomas Nelson To: "Tromb and related issues forum." , , Subject: Re: Overhaul Message-ID: <-1264449065TNelson@tipton.k12.ia.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree wholeheartedly with Stewart Crane. I once had a custom built in-line Bach that I dearly loved but then I had it overhauled. I sold it. I had the bell buffed and relacquered. It was a completely different horn. I think most people relacquer a horn for cosmetic reasons any way. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I found out the hard way. Very Sincerely, Tom -- Thomas L. Nelson Band Director, Tipton High School Tipton, Iowa & Trombone Eastern Iowa Brass Band TNelson@tipton.k12.ia.us Check out the Eastern Iowa Brass Band at: http://soli.inav.net/~eibb/more.html On Thursday, March 2, 1939, Stewart M. Crane wrote: Mike, Be cautious about relacquering, especially the bell section. Relacquering may change the horn's sound, if only a little, because when the horn is buffed before relacquering, some of the metal will be buffed away. If the buffer isn't very careful, a lot of metal will be buffed away. If the horn is a Mt. Vernon Bach that has never been relacquered, relacquering now will reduce the value. That's my opinion, anyway, Stewart Crane ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Loewen To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 10:07 PM Subject: Overhaul > > It's time to get my trusty Bach 16 completely overhauled - one joint > needs to be resoldered, and it should be completely stripped and > relacquered. I'm looking for recommendations for a place to send it in > the Eastern half of the states, for quality and timely work. Thanks for > any tips. > > > Mike Loewen Tenor/Bass Trombone and Tuba > mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/mloewen.html From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:29:15 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: FW: All that Jazz; was appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Didn't make the List, second try. -----Original Message----- From: Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:07 AM To: 'kdowdy@oppd.com' Subject: RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Ooh that Jazz >It is no wonder that Jazz Band is taking off in our area. At least >the kids are given a chance to express >themselves and try to put >some feeling in their work and make music instead of >becoming >musical athletes. >Ken Dowdy Ken: I think you have something here. Jazz band is wildly popular at the high school my kids attend. Now I have played jazz since middle school and love it, so I hardly noticed its popularity with the kids until another parent pointed it out. I asked some of the players and basically they played because they enjoyed it more than the standard concert band repertoire, they had more fun, they perceived it as "less structured" and, I may be putting words in their mouths here... they felt more successful and felt more "musical" playing jazz. Some said they would have quit playing altogether if not for jazz band. These next comments are not intended to insult jazz or classical groups, but intended to draw attention to differences in the music, the way it is performed and the way it is taught. And I ask your indulgence as I put on my Behavioral Professor hat :-). These are the same kids taking lessons working hard to perfect their technique. I suppose it is natural for younger players to be drawn to music with "less structure" and with "more emotion" but then feeling good about their playing is what keeps them going, or worse, feeling bad or bored about their playing is what encourages them drop out of music. I don't agree that failure always begets more failure. I have always felt that we learn more from our failures than our successes. It is how good we feel about our playing that keeps us striving to reach the next level. See the Urbie Green comments (BTW 21 trombones kept me in jazz trombone for years). I think that kids are not younger versions of today's band directors. They have many years less experience in music than the older members of the List. What interests them will be different while it might not interest us. They have not yet been down the road we have already walked. The concept of "Learner Readiness" is one I have found very helpful in my role as a teacher. Basically you can't teach a student something they don't perceive to be important, or that they aren't ready for emotionally, or technically. While we applaud our younger players when they use .547 equipment, play professional level solos etc., we do a great disservice if we push them beyond their "readiness level" (This is beyond or different than pushing them to do better). Guess my point is that while technique is an important fundamental of playing, so is enjoying what you are doing. Rick Marple San Antonio TX (not involved in All State :-)) From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:22:38 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness Message-ID: <387CB85E.915050E8@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The intelligent and articulate Doug Yeo wrote in part: >The other problem is what to do about bass trombone players, ... Since >then, I advocated strongly for a bass trombone >category to be added to the Massachusetts All-State list... I bet this seems reasonable, right and proper to all trombonists. But I can't help but imagine the following conversation: Trombone advocate: There needs to be a separate category for bass trombone. State organizer: Why? TA: It's a completely different instrument. SO: Let's see one. TA: Here! SO: Looks like any trombone. What key's it in? TA: Bb/F, and this lever here puts it in another key that's different on different models of bass trombone. SO: You mean BBb/FF? TA: Uh, no, Bb/F.... SO: I thought the tenor trombone was in Bb/F. TA: No, I mean, yes, but the bore is different, the sound is different, there's a different approach, composers use it differently... SO: Look, buddy, you want to talk about different sound and use? How 'bout a piccolo? But we don't have the kids audition on it - whoever winds up third chair in the flute section is just expected to know how to blow one. And we don't have separate categories for Bb and Eb clarinet, or trumpet and cornet either. You want a separate category for an extra little lever that's not even the same on every trombone? Yeah, right, and then we'll put in separate categories for resin oboes with basic key work and genadilla oboes with full conservatory keyword! TA: (cretin!) SO: (prima donna!) TA: Well, thank you for your time. I hope we can talk again about this. SO: My pleasure. I look forward to it. I gotta go practice, Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:06:57 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: sarapete@total.net Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: FW: thayer valves - not! Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082EA4@LEE2> It is true all mechanical devices require some ongoing maintenance to function well. So I guess I really shouldn't object to doing some on a valve, i do have to lube the slide (slide-o-mix? trombontine? no, don't go there.!) On the other hand, many students have proven a rotary will work for years without any attention at all. I suspect that wouldn't be the case with the thayer family. What do you see as the big advantage of the axial flow valve family? Maybe if I played one for an extended period of time I would have a better opinion. But the valves I've tried out briefly have only felt different. Not better, just different. To me no valve feels stuffy if I've got the position dialed in exactly right! and all valves feel stuffy if I'm a bit off, and I'm lipping it in. That is one of the things that makes it hard to pick up a strange horn and test the valve. If axial valves have an advantage in flow, they also have an inherent disadvantage in leakiness, and this gets worse as they wear. > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur [SMTP:sarapete@total.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:39 AM > To: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL > Cc: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: FW: thayer valves - not! > > Hello Tim and list, > > As for my personal experience, I have found my thayers not that much > more labour intensive and the advantage of them to be tremendous. There > was someone else who posted that if the valve is labour is a lot to care > for there is probably something wrong with that particular valve, not > the Thayer valve in general. (For those concerned, when I say Thayer or > thayer I mean all axial flow valves). > > I did have my valve tweaked (pardon?) when I originally bought it from > Edwards. Ron Partch in Toronto did the work and it is fine. He has > always recommended Holton valve oil as it is the cleanest operating oil. > I haven't had problems with my valves since then and only disassemble > them to fully clean them every six months or so. > > Peter Collins > > richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: > > I have to respect the symphony pro's choice of the thayer, but I have > come > > to believe that most of the rest of us are better off spending more time > > playing and less time adjusting and lubricating. From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:55:58 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. Message-ID: <200001121855.MAA29667@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Doug Yeo wrote in part: >>The other problem is what to do about bass trombone players, ... Since >>then, I advocated strongly for a bass trombone >>category to be added to the Massachusetts All-State list... When I was in high school I switched to bass trombone in my junior year. I auditioned for district, regional, all-state and all eastern seaboard bands and orchestras (I don't even know if they still do the all eastern anymore) and without exception it was always on the same music that the tenor trombone players were required to play. I made first chair in each of those ensembles in my junior and senior years, however, in the orchestras I was given the option of accepting that chair or playing bass trombone - I chose to play bass in the orchestras and tenor in the bands (as we all know, bass trombone in a lot of band literature is just third trombone :) On occasion I actually used my bass trombone (Conn 62H) to play lead in the bands, other times I used the more appropriate instrument (Conn 88H). I have to admit, it was fun playing lead on Lincolnshire Posy and Vaughan Williams' Folk Song Suite on a bass trombone, but I did it more out of defiance than anything. Even in the dark ages of the late 70s I was an advocate of bass trombonist's rights! In a band situation I don't see the problem having everyone use the same literature as audition material. The orchestra is a whole different matter, however. Until the time comes that bands make a distinction between a bass trombonist as a person dedicated to a different instrument and a third trombone player who is just not as good as 2nd and 1st, this situation will continue. MC From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:38:41 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: All that Jazz; was appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rick, You sent me the original post, so I don't think that it was sent to the list. Anyway, I've got some time now so I will try to address your observations. I wrote: > >It is no wonder that Jazz Band is taking off in our area. At least >the > kids are given a chance to express >themselves and try to put >some > feeling > in their work and make music instead of >becoming >musical athletes. > > >Ken Dowdy > You wrote: > Ken: > > I think you have something here. Jazz band is wildly popular at the high > school my kids attend. Now I have played jazz since middle school and > love > it, so I hardly noticed its popularity with the kids until another parent > pointed it out. I asked some of the players and basically they played > because they enjoyed it more than the standard concert band repertoire, > they > had more fun, they perceived it as "less structured" and, I may be putting > words in their mouths here... they felt more successful and felt more > "musical" playing jazz. Some said they would have quit playing altogether > if not for jazz band. > Your experience mirrors mine completely. > These next comments are not intended to insult jazz or classical groups, > but > intended to draw attention to differences in the music, the way it is > performed and the way it is taught. And I ask your indulgence as I put on > my Behavioral Professor hat :-). > You have it. > These are the same kids taking lessons working hard to perfect their > technique. I suppose it is natural for younger players to be drawn to > music > with "less structure" and with "more emotion" but then feeling good about > their playing is what keeps them going, or worse, feeling bad or bored > about > their playing is what encourages them drop out of music. > > I don't agree that failure always begets more failure. I have always felt > that we learn more from our failures than our successes. It is how good we > feel about our playing that keeps us striving to reach the next level. > I agree totally. > See > the Urbie Green comments (BTW 21 trombones kept me in jazz trombone for > years). I think that kids are not younger versions of today's band > directors. They have many years less experience in music than the older > members of the List. What interests them will be different while it might > not interest us. They have not yet been down the road we have already > walked. > Very true. Also, often times we have forgotten the road that we walked and no longer remember what it was like when we were their age. > The concept of "Learner Readiness" is one I have found very helpful in my > role as a teacher. Basically you can't teach a student something they > don't > perceive to be important, or that they aren't ready for emotionally, or > technically. While we applaud our younger players when they use .547 > equipment, play professional level solos etc., we do a great disservice if > we push them beyond their "readiness level" (This is beyond or different > than pushing them to do better). Guess my point is that while technique > is > an important fundamental of playing, so is enjoying what you are doing. > > Rick Marple > San Antonio TX (not involved in All State :-)) > I agree totally. Where is the insulting part? Anyway, from what I have seen, Jazz Band is not another way to "dumb down" the curriculum and give kids an easy way out. At my son's middle school, both music teachers are professionally performing Jazz musicians, and the training that the students get is quite on par with what they get in concert band. In fact, membership in the concert band is a prerequisite for membership in the Jazz Band, at least initially. Often the students who are best in Jazz Band are also tops in the concert band. However, I think that Jazz Band has the advantage of allowing the students a channel for their creativity. They are encouraged to play solos and to improvise. However, they are not forced to if they are not ready. They are taught that a section musician is just as important as a soloist. Above all, they feel that they have a part in the music. They are not just playing some crap that someone else wants them to play for some contest somewhere (words that I have hear from them). It is amazing to hear the difference in applause after the Jazz Band plays as opposed to the Concert Band. The Jazz Band is not only the most popular with the students, but also the most pleasing to the audience. The music is not just ink on the paper. In fact, in Jazz the ink on the paper is just a rough guideline for where you want to go. Fundamentals may be important, but I have heard a lot of players that are good at playing notes and suck when it comes to music. I have also heard a couple of Jazz musicians that can really put some heart and soul into a piece, but could not write out a Bb concert scale on paper. Which is better? Some of the more sensible would say both are important. Perhaps I agree. However, I have always maintained that music comes from the heart and not the head, so for me the bookwork is optional. BTW, I am not a Jazzer when it get right down to it. 90% of the music that I listen to was written before 1700 AD. I have only gravitated toward Jazz within the last two years after seeing how dull and uninspired classical music has become. I have listened to a lot of different trombonists play in several different idioms. I don't understand a lot of the Jazz stuff, but for some reason it positively affects me, particularly live performances. As to classical, I understand it and have been training to appreciate it to some degree, but most of it just leaves me uninspired and yawning; Gabrielli, Praetorius and Di Lasso being the notable exceptions. Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:50 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:50:44 From: Howard Weiner To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000112205044.2c5fe12c@mail.privat.toplink.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit First try didn't seem to make it to the list... At 08:02 11.01.2000 -0600, DOWDY, KENNETH S wrote: >For that matter, play it on an alto the way it was probably intended in the >first place (the original was written in alto clef, wasn't it?). The use of alto clef does not necessarily indicate that an alto trombone is required or intended. The alto trombone was practically unknown in France of the late 18th - early 19th century. The same is true of the bass trombone. (See Berlioz's treatise on instrumentation). An appropriate trombone section for the Symphonie fantastique would consist of 3 small-bore tenors. >Man, we >have jerks asking kids to play stuff that scares pros, and with instruments >too big for the piece to boot. No argument here! Howard -- Howard Weiner weiner@privat.toplink.de http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" - attributed to Frank Zappa "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzŠhltes Mittagessen" - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:15:41 -0600 From: Stephen Parsons To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Annual ISU Trombone Workshop Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1264414339==_ma============" Hello everyone! It's my pleasure to announce the 5th Annual Illinois State University Trombone Workshop. It's a one-day event that will be held on 2/5/00. The location is the Illinois State University campus in Normal, Illinois (approx. 2.5 hour drive from Chicago, St. Louis and Indianapolis). This year's guest artists will be: Timothy Myers, Principal Trombone, St. Louis Symphony Katherine McGown, Principal Trombone, Chicago Sinfonietta Both will be giving clinics and recitals, plus the ISU Trombone Choir will be performing. You can obtain detailed information about the event by going to: http://www.arts.ilstu.edu/music/trbworkshop/ Cost for the day is: $20.00 (preregistered), $25.00 (at the door) If you are interested in attending only the Myers recital, tickets may be purchased at the door for that event. E V E N T S C H E D U L E 9:00 - 9:30am Registration 9:30 - 10:30am Master Class by Catherine McGown 11:00 -11:30am Visit Exhibits 11:30 - 12:30pm Recital by Katherine McGown 12:30 - 2:00pm Lunch break (1:30 - 2:00pm) Exhibits open 2:00 - 3:30pm Clinic by Timothy Myers 3:30 - 4:00pm Visit Exhibits 4:00 - 5:00pm Concert by the ISU Trombone Choir 5:00 - 7:00pm Dinner break 7:00pm Recital by Timothy Myers I hope some of you can make it. If you have questions, please email me off the list. Steve Parsons Stephen Parsons Assistant Professor of Trombone College of Fine Arts Box 5660 Illinois State University Normal IL 61790-5660 (309)438-5260 Email: sbpars@oratmail.cfa.ilstu.edu http://www.orat.ilstu.edu/music/faculty/parsons/index.html From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:24:16 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Auditions and preparation Message-ID: <8e.5d2e0.25ae3cf0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/11/00 6:08:03 PM, dclason@nmsu.edu writes: <> Ditto that! Doug, your tips for auditions were a big help to me during the Houston audition, especially the Psalm reading and prayer. Thanks! Going in to Houston I knew I was ready and had done everything within my power in preparation for the audition. If I got the gig, great it would be the Lord's will for my life. If not, then there was something different in store for me down the road. 1st 3 excerpts were near perfect then I had 2 clams in a row on the 4th. I was very disappointed in myself since I've never screwed-up in that part of the excerpt before. Nevertheless, I realize that job is not for me. I've been a little down today but I'm anxious to find out what is in store. Thanks again to Doug, Milt Stevens and all the well-wishers out there! Yamaha Artist/Clinician-Jeff Adams From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:19:59 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: "Trombone" Subject: Smell the Roses Message-ID: <025501bf5d43$0cfc0c20$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some recent posts have bothered me, When I hear of fellow musicians sabotaging horns, cut throat competition for placements etc. I begin to wonder How many have gone to a sporting event, except to play in the band? How many have gone to a concert, just to listen? How many have a hobby, not related to music? How many take some time off to be with friends or family? How many have read a book just for pleasure? How many have gone to church to worship, not play? And in music ]How many have helped out a group by playing the part needed and not demanding that you play first chair How many have help a kid get started? There is more to life than playing trombone, As Walter Hagen the great golfer said, "Take time and smell the roses" ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:14:53 -0700 From: "Tarpley Webmaster" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. Message-ID: <001901bf5d4a$741ec580$5f91a7d8@yucca.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Coyle To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 11:55 AM Subject: Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. > In a band situation I don't see the problem having everyone use the same > literature as audition material. The orchestra is a whole different > matter, however. Only problem is -- the audition for All-State is the same for band or orchestra. Those placing higher make orchestra. Those placing not as high make the bands. At lest here in New Mexico... Earl Needham (at work...) From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:30:22 -0500 From: hamprod@mindspring.com To: Subject: Early jazz trombone players Message-ID: <002801bf5d4c$9decc220$948456d1@frankham> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF5D22.B4567760"
Hi,
 
I'm really new to this list.  I am a pro musician (guitar and banjo) but I'm also an amateur trombone player (well I should qualify this, I used to play when I was younger all through junior high school, high school and in the dance band in college. My embrochure needs a lot of work.)
 
I gig with my guitar and banjo.
 
When I was a kid I used to love to play trad trombone new orleans style jazz.  I was very fortunate to be able to sit-in with a legendary drummer, Zutty Singleton at a local club in L.A. He was very kind to me considering that I wasn't that good but I developed a real love for trad gut bucket trombone.
 
I'm thinking of starting it up again just for fun so I could sit in on some trad jams.  Here's my question.
 
There are those of you out there who are undoubtably real scholars of the instrument and I would like to know if you could tell me the horns and possibly the mouthpieces that were used by some of my favorite players.  Or can you please suggest a source where I could find out this information?
 
The players who I would love to study are as follows:
 
J.C. Higganbotham,
Honore Dutrey
Kid Ory
"Big" Jim Robinson
Turk Murphy
Ward Kimball (Firehouse 5+2)
"Tricky Sam" Nanton with Ellington
 
I am not interested in studying the stylings (although I admire them immensely) of the likes of Trummy Young, Teagarden, Miff Mole, Abe Lincoln, Juan Tizol,  and the later jazz players such as Kai, J.J. Willie Dennis, Rossolino, Mel Bernhardt and Watrous.
 
It might be that some of you pros probably don't like to hear this style of playing since it is rough.  I hope I'm not treading on any sensitivity here and I hope you will bear with me on this. I really dig it.
 
Is it possible that the horns used in marching bands would be better for this style as it sort of conforms to the evolution of this type of playing?
 
Any recommendations or suggestions as to the kind of horn that applies would be gratefully received.
Thanks for your forebearance on this topic.
 
Frank Hamilton
 
 
 
 From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:38:03 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Smell the Roses Message-ID: <200001122238.QAA19172@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:19 PM 1/12/00 , you wrote: >Some recent posts have bothered me, When I hear of fellow musicians >sabotaging horns Sabotaging horns? Yuck, I must have missed that one. Joe, your post is well timed and very appropriate. If anyone here can't answer "ME" to at least 5 out of the eight "How many..." questions, they're in trouble. Mike >How many have gone to a sporting event, except to play in the band? >How many have gone to a concert, just to listen? >How many have a hobby, not related to music? >How many take some time off to be with friends or family? >How many have read a book just for pleasure? >How many have gone to church to worship, not play? >And in music >]How many have helped out a group by playing the part needed and not >demanding that you play first chair >How many have help a kid get started? > >There is more to life than playing trombone, As Walter Hagen the great >golfer said, "Take time and smell the roses" >______________________________________ >Joe L. Norcross >Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band >Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band >joetuba@lightspeed.net > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:51 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:41:09 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Howard Weiner Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone know if John Eliot Gardiner's recording of Symphony Fantastique with the Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique uses all small bore tenors, if so, how small did they go? I haven't listened to it yet but plan to acquaint myself with this recording some time in the near future. Beth L. On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Howard Weiner wrote: > First try didn't seem to make it to the list... > > At 08:02 11.01.2000 -0600, DOWDY, KENNETH S wrote: > > >For that matter, play it on an alto the way it was probably intended in the > >first place (the original was written in alto clef, wasn't it?). > > The use of alto clef does not necessarily indicate that an alto trombone is > required or intended. The alto trombone was practically unknown in France > of the late 18th - early 19th century. The same is true of the bass > trombone. (See Berlioz's treatise on instrumentation). An appropriate > trombone section for the Symphonie fantastique would consist of 3 > small-bore tenors. > > > >Man, we > >have jerks asking kids to play stuff that scares pros, and with instruments > >too big for the piece to boot. > > No argument here! > > Howard > > > -- > Howard Weiner > weiner@privat.toplink.de > http://www.odilia.ch/howard-weiner > > "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" > - attributed to Frank Zappa > > "Beschriebene Musik ist wie ein erzähltes Mittagessen" > - Franz Grillparzer zugeschrieben > > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: 12 Jan 2000 23:41:26 +0100 From: Reyes To: Trombone List Subject: Slide treatment. Message-ID: <-1264402034rska@retemail.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, IĞm new to the list so this is my first post. IĞm Reyes from Spain. I'm starting to play the trombone (have been with a teacher for a month) and I like it very much. I have a question to ask about the slide. What product do you think is best? My teacher told me to use Trombotine, but in the shop I got my trombone I was shown a diferent thing that has two bottles with diferent greases that you mix in the slide. What do you think? Thanks in advance, -Reyes From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:44:06 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. Message-ID: <200001122244.QAA19692@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Only problem is -- the audition for All-State is the same for band or >orchestra. Those placing higher make orchestra. Those placing not as high >make the bands. At lest here in New Mexico... > > Earl Needham (at work...) > Good God! That's outragious. It is a veritable musical caste system. MC From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:46:21 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness, bass trombone auditions, etc. Message-ID: <200001122246.QAA19953@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This didn't seem to go through first time - sorry if it posts twice Doug Yeo wrote in part: >>The other problem is what to do about bass trombone players, ... Since >>then, I advocated strongly for a bass trombone >>category to be added to the Massachusetts All-State list... When I was in high school I switched to bass trombone in my junior year. I auditioned for district, regional, all-state and all eastern seaboard bands and orchestras (I don't even know if they still do the all eastern anymore) and without exception it was always on the same music that the tenor trombone players were required to play. I made first chair in each of those ensembles in my junior and senior years, however, in the orchestras I was given the option of accepting that chair or playing bass trombone - I chose to play bass in the orchestras and tenor in the bands (as we all know, bass trombone in a lot of band literature is just third trombone :) On occasion I actually used my bass trombone (Conn 62H) to play lead in the bands, other times I used the more appropriate instrument (Conn 88H). I have to admit, it was fun playing lead on Lincolnshire Posy and Vaughan Williams' Folk Song Suite on a bass trombone, but I did it more out of defiance than anything. Even in the dark ages of the late 70s I was an advocate of bass trombonist's rights! In a band situation I don't see the problem having everyone use the same literature as audition material. The orchestra is a whole different matter, however. Until the time comes that bands make a distinction between a bass trombonist as a person dedicated to a different instrument and a third trombone player who is just not as good as 2nd and 1st, this situation will continue. MC From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:51:12 EST From: EMRose79@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me the "address" for the trumpet list? Thanks (in advance) Ed From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:09:49 -0600 From: "James Yardley" To: Cc: "Trombone-L forum." Subject: Re: question Message-ID: <003a01bf5d52$27cb4e80$0bdcfea9@james> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed, I just did a search on http://www.metacrawler.com and I found this website. http://trumpet.dana.edu/~trumpet/ I hope that's what you're looking for. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: question > Can anyone tell me the "address" for the trumpet list? > Thanks (in advance) > Ed From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:11:33 -0500 From: Bill Fatch To: EMRose79@aol.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: question, how to subscribe to trumpet list Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000112181133.006aaaa4@naples.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:51 PM 1/12/2000 EST, EMRose79@aol.com wrote: >Can anyone tell me the "address" for the trumpet list? >Thanks (in advance) >Ed Here it is: Trumpet List Owner: Michael Anderson Send a one line message (no Subject heading) to with message: subscribe tpin Cheers, Bill Fatch Etudes & Duos for Brass From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:27:30 -0800 From: Jim Tempest To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: thayer valves - not! Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My two cents.... I switched to a horn with Thayers about three years ago and have had no real problems with them. I agree with what Pete (Hi Pete!) and others have to say that they are no more or less labour intensive than a rotary. As far as the contention that they don't make much of a difference, I'll say mine were a huge improvement over the Bach rotary valves on my previous horn. They are much freer and not nearly as stuffy as the traditional rotary. For those of us who do most of our work "in the basement", they are a boon. -- Jim Tempest > From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur > Reply-To: sarapete@total.net > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:39:02 -0500 > To: "Trombones and related issues forum." > Subject: Re: FW: thayer valves - not! > > Hello Tim and list, > > As for my personal experience, I have found my thayers not that much > more labour intensive and the advantage of them to be tremendous. There > was someone else who posted that if the valve is labour is a lot to care > for there is probably something wrong with that particular valve, not > the Thayer valve in general. (For those concerned, when I say Thayer or > thayer I mean all axial flow valves). > > richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL wrote: >> I have to respect the symphony pro's choice of the thayer, but I have come >> to believe that most of the rest of us are better off spending more time >> playing and less time adjusting and lubricating. > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:40:03 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Slide treatment. Message-ID: <200001122340.QAA163070@nestor.NMSU.Edu> ** Reply to note from Reyes 01/12/00 11:41pm +0100 > Hello all, > > I´m new to the list so this is my first post. I´m Reyes from Spain. I'm > starting to play the trombone (have been with a teacher for a month) and > I like it very much. I have a question to ask about the slide. What product > do you think is best? My teacher told me to use Trombotine, but in the shop > I got my trombone I was shown a diferent thing that has two bottles with > diferent greases that you mix in the slide. What do you think? Reyes, Welcome to the slip-sliding away branch of the InterNet. Please pardon me for a moment while I take care of some necessary List Related Business: AAAAAGH! Run away, run away -- somebody's trying to get the trombotine versus slide-o-mix thread rolling again! Thank you for your patience. Seriously: trombotine is a very good slide cream. The only real problem with it is applying it too heavily and having a gummy slide. Slide-O-Mix (the stuff in the two bottles) is also a very good lubricant. It tends to be more forgiving of overapplication than trombotine is. The small bottle is a high grade silicone oil, and the large bottle is a solution of a high grade soap (for some reason whale oil sticks in my head as being the base for the soap, but I can't think why). It's really a matter of paying your pesos and taking your choice. Trombotine and water is probably somewhat cheaper than Slide-O-Mix, but it's your choice. Personal disclaimer: I use Slide-O-Mix, but that's not a reason for you to. I've used Trombotine in the past, and I've been happy with it. But I don't have futz around with my slide nearly as much since I switched to S-O-M. But, if UMI wants to send me a case of S-O-M, you and everyone should use S-O-M as your lubricant of choice. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:04:07 EST From: MikeSuter@aol.com To: dclason@nmsu.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Slide treatment. Message-ID: <76.e1ba46.25ae7077@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, I've never participated in the "argument" phase of this slide treatment controversy. It gets far too territorial for my taste (the "I use Tromboglop. If you don't you're a weenie" crap). Besides I learned many years ago that, as long as you change it every day, the name on the jar just isn't important. MS From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:18:43 -0500 From: Dave Burch To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: <387D19E3.B3A591D7@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Waage wrote: > Now, the sectional rivalries were brutal. I had my instrument damaged > several times by rivals, as well as the constant "You suck, you can't play, > give it up" type of garbage that people use to intimidate others. While we of the Cincinnati Brass Band were warming up to compete in last year's North American brass band competition, two teenage boys from one of the several elite youth bands in the adult competition dropped in to listen for a minute. I thought "That's nice, they're showing respect for their fellow competitors". Guess what happened next. As they two turned to leave, one said in a loud stage whisper, "Ah, we can kick their butts!" Ladies and gents, if promoting excellence must come at the cost of instilling such attitudes in our young, then give me mediocrity! P.S. By the way, they didn't kick anybody's butt. Maybe their own. -- @%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@ ------ Dave Burch ------ ---- Hamilton, Ohio ----- -- daveburch@fuse.net -- Church and community trombonist, baritone hornist, recorderist, choral singer After Hours Big Band Cincinnati Brass Band at http://cincinnati.brassband.com Hamilton-Fairfield Symphony Chorale (and sometimes Orchestra) at http://www.hfso.org Senior programmer/analyst, Mercy Health Partners @%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@ From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:30:00 -0600 From: "Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston" To: "'Trombone-L'" Subject: FW: musical athletes (long) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain These posts didn't make the list. Based on some private responses I will post it. I hope you find these comments useful. My earlier remark about Learner Readiness comes from a Stanford University program on adult education conceived by Dr. Kelly Skef. At the time Dr. Skef created this program, medical education was very confrontational, very severe and the balance between teacher and student was not good. You might think of the show Saint Elsewhere and the Chief Surgeon at rounds eating some poor intern as an example. Although I don't watch ER, I'm sure that show has some examples too. The sad part is that the teachers thought this was the best way to get the most out of their students! They were doing their job, and very well thank you! Skef was trying to regain the balance between the teacher and the student. While the teacher wants to push the student as far as possible, the student has an ego, an opinion, and a major part in the final product too. If the student's needs and maturity and skills are not considered, then good things are less like to happen. Maybe we get an excellent technician with no soul as discussed earlier on the List. Believe me, music is not the only field with this problem. The model assumes that students want to become better, and that teachers want to create an independent, self teaching self improving adult learner. So the teacher must assume more responsibility, after all the teacher has more experience, more skills (usually :-)) and the bigger more secure ego (again, usually :-)). The best teachers use this advantage for the betterment of their students. Whether you can apply this to any State competition of course, is another matter. Rick Marple San Antonio TX -----Original Message----- From: Mike Coyle [mailto:astro@pconline.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 4:44 PM To: Marple, Richard L COL BAMC-Ft Sam Houston Subject: RE: musical athletes You're absolutely right, Rick. Your analogy is very apt. Thanks for pointing out that my post didn't make the list. I'll try again. You should post this to the list too - it is well worth hearing. Thanks, Mike At 04:21 PM 1/12/00 , you wrote: >Mike: > >Dennis Brain is one of my favorites too! This is a classic case of the >emperor has no clothes. We buy into the system and become blind, but not >deaf. You knew something was wrong, you needed the "child" to point it out, >then all was revealed, so to speak :-). Note, this did not go to the list >(your post or mine). > >Rick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Coyle [mailto:astro@pconline.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 1:26 PM >To: Richard.Marple@CEN.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL >Subject: musical athletes > > >Ken Dowdy wrote: >>>It is no wonder that Jazz Band is taking off in our area. At least >the >>kids are given a chance to express >themselves and try to put >some feeling >>in their work and make music instead of >becoming >musical athletes. >> >>>Ken Dowdy >> > >Ken, there are musical athletes and musical aesthetes, both seem to despise >the other :) > >Let's all silently ponder which camp we fall into. > >The other day I purchased a CD of a trombonist of great repute (an American >non-jazz player). I listened to it all the way through then had a friend >over and we listened to it together. I stopped half way through and asked, >"what's wrong with this? All the notes are there and the sound is not >without some charm, but something is very wrong." My friend, not being a >trombonist, was not hindered by prejudice or the unspoken deference we feel >we should have toward other members of the "corps", replied, "it is the >dullest, most meaningless thing I have ever heard!" That was it! I was >indeed the dullest thing I have ever heard too - every note was there and >each attack was precise and the high register was very impressive. This >person's sound was not, at face value, unpleasant, but was so consistently >unmoving that I wondered why he even wanted to produce a CD. My friend >wondered why he ever wanted to become a musician! My point is that I was >shocked that my own bias (the belief that anyone capable of winning a major >orch. audition must have something important to say musically) actually >made it difficult for me to hear what was wrong at first. Had it been a >pianist or vocalist I would have pin-pointed it immediately. It was an >interesting study in influenced listening. > >As an antidote we listened to Dennis Brain play Mozart :) > >MC > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:45:45 -0600 From: Jeff Hettling To: Trombone-l Subject: Rousseau's Piece Concertante Message-ID: <387D2038.E1731636@starpoint.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi list, I will be performing Piece Concertante by S. Rousseau and could use some advice from anybody that is familiar with this piece. I'm looking for what type of emotion to put in the different parts. I have been unable to find a recording of this piece either. I heard somewhere that the Marine Band did it with a guest soloist. I can (as Doug Yeo puts it) play the ink. It is just about time to put the emotion and musicallity into it. Thanks for the help, Jeff From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:54:21 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: posts not going through! Message-ID: <200001130054.SAA29260@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" whats the deal with posts not going through to the list? From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:52 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:55:40 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: musical athletes Message-ID: <200001130055.SAA29341@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_13360179==_.ALT" Here's another post that did not seem to go through.  sorry if it gets posted twice.

Ken Dowdy wrote:
>>It is no wonder that Jazz Band is taking off in our area.  At least >the
>kids are given a chance to express >themselves and try to put >some feeling
>in their work and make music instead of >becoming >musical athletes. 
>
>>Ken Dowdy
>

Ken, there are musical athletes and musical aesthetes, both seem to despise the other  :)

Let's all silently ponder which camp we fall into.

The other day I purchased a CD of a trombonist of great repute (an American non-jazz player).  I listened to it all the way through then had a friend over and we listened to it together.  I stopped half way through and asked, "what's wrong with this?  All the notes are there and the sound is not without some charm, but something is very wrong."  My friend, not being a trombonist, was not hindered by prejudice or the unspoken deference we feel we should have toward other members of the "corps", replied, "it is the dullest, most meaningless thing I have ever heard!"  That was it!  I was indeed the dullest thing I have ever heard too - every note was there and each attack was precise and the high register was very impressive.  This person's sound was not, at face value, unpleasant, but was so consistently unmoving that I wondered why he even wanted to produce a CD.  My friend wondered why he ever wanted to become a musician!  My point is that I was shocked that my own bias (the belief that anyone capable of winning a major orch. audition must have something important to say musically) actually made it difficult for me to hear what was wrong at first.  Had it been a pianist or vocalist I would have pin-pointed it immediately.  It was an interesting study in influenced listening.

As an antidote we listened to Dennis Brain play Mozart  :)

MC


 From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:02:59 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: Reyes Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Slide treatment. Message-ID: <200001130103.TAA30341@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It is all a matter of personal preference, Reyes. I prefer trombotine myself - it lasts forever and feels silky smooth! The product you bought sounds like it might be Slide-O-Mix, also a good product. Whatever you do, DO NOT MIX Slide-O-Mix with any other lubricant! And, if you choose to try another lubricant after using Slide-O-Mix make sure you remove the Slide-O-Mix as thoroughly as possible. I would suggest trying several products over time though and see what you like best. Good luck and welcome to the list. Mike Coyle Composer/Arranger/Trombonist Minneapolis, MN At 04:41 PM 1/12/00 , you wrote: >Hello all, > > IĞm new to the list so this is my first post. IĞm Reyes from Spain. I'm starting to play the trombone (have been with a teacher for a month) and I like it very much. I have a question to ask about the slide. What product do you think is best? My teacher told me to use Trombotine, but in the shop I got my trombone I was shown a diferent thing that has two bottles with diferent greases that you mix in the slide. What do you think? > > Thanks in advance, > >-Reyes > > > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:28:27 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: apology for multiple posts Message-ID: <200001130128.TAA32264@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey folks, I think something may be wrong with my email server. I have sent several posts to trombone-l that I never saw come through, but others have told me that they have seen them come through. I'm really sorry if things are getting posted two or three times. I'll have to go on faith that things are going through so I don't annoy y'all by multiple posting. Thanks, mike From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:50:17 -0600 From: daboneman To: Trombones and related issues forum Subject: IAJE Message-ID: <387D3D68.24E4FE1A@mciworld.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All: I'll be off the list for a few days and will be at the IAJE (International Association of Jazz Educators) Conference in New Orleans. I hope to see some of you there. I will be for sure at the Count Basie Orchestra Concert Thursday night, the Chuck Owen Combo with John Fedchock as guest artist, "The Trombone in the Jazz Band" also on Thursday, the "Arranging for Dixieland Band" clinic on Friday morning (One of the members of the dixieland band attening is a good friend of mine from the Univ. of Northern Florida, Marc Dickman... good trombone/euphonium player), and the "Advanced Technical and Improv. Studies for Trombone" on Friday afternoon. I will be at other events... but these for sure. I'll be on the look-out for some familiar names. Don't worry... I won't post any clinic notes on the list ; ). Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:19:18 -0600 From: daboneman To: BASSBENGE@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Texas All-State tryouts Message-ID: <387D4435.84670513@mciworld.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I too teach in Texas and I have to say that although it is not a perfect system, the all-state process here is as good as I've seen anywhere. There are flaws... but with the size of the state, and shear numbers of students the system works well, and has for many years. I participated in the system growing up and saw it all the way through to the all-state level. I thoroughly enjoyed my experience (almost 20 years ago now) in the all-state band and jazz band... but... did it make me a better or superior player... probably not. My daily practice did that. I cannot speak for the whole state, but if there was one criticism that I could give the system here in Texas is that far too much emphasis is given to "making the all-state band." I have seen this in the Southeast Texas area, the San Antonio area, and the Rio Grande Valley area... I feel that there is not enough fundamental teaching going on. The fundamentals will produce the product that is desired and the by-product of that will probably be the all-state band. I know that there are programs in each of these areas that I mentioned that do teach fundamentals... but they are the exception. Everything seems to be geared towards the final product... winning the audition, making a first division, etc. The educators forget that you need to start at the beginning before you can reach your goal. As for Doug's post about Texas musicians being disappropriated in the professional world... I would have to disagree. I cannot speak from the Orchestra world... but I do know a few Texas musicians in orchestras. Where I have seen a good bunch of Texas musicians is in the freelance and studio scene. There are a bunch of them out there... but I know what he is getting at. There are so many numbers here in the Texas schools... you would think that the professional world would be overrun with Texas musicans. I think that a lot of the kids are burned out by the time that they graduate from high school from the "slave-driver" mentality of some directors. They just have had enough. My personal observations... Both as a student and educator. Dean McCarty freelance trombonist, Houston area From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:27:19 EST From: FOpal@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: IAJE Message-ID: <6d.54abbe.25aea017@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello guys its me again. I was wondering if anyone could suggest some awesome sounds trombone/other woodwood duet? We dont really have a lot of strong brass players but we have a ton of good woodwinds. I would like one that sounds very musical and not too easy... I am quite musical and technical so pick accordingly. Any questions EMail me . THanx!! Frank Opal From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:29:36 EST From: FOpal@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Trombone/other woodwind duet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SORRY GUYS I FORGOT TO RETITLE THIS Hello guys its me again. I was wondering if anyone could suggest some awesome sounds trombone/other woodwood duet? We dont really have a lot of strong brass players but we have a ton of good woodwinds. I would like one that sounds very musical and not too easy... I am quite musical and technical so pick accordingly. Any questions EMail me . THanx!! Frank Opal From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:48:12 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Slide treatment. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I agree trombotine is one the best slide lubricant you can get. I think the two bottles treatment is called superslick, product from German... it boast of one of the topmost standard... i would still recommend the Trombontine. -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Mike Coyle Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 9:03 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Slide treatment. It is all a matter of personal preference, Reyes. I prefer trombotine myself - it lasts forever and feels silky smooth! The product you bought sounds like it might be Slide-O-Mix, also a good product. Whatever you do, DO NOT MIX Slide-O-Mix with any other lubricant! And, if you choose to try another lubricant after using Slide-O-Mix make sure you remove the Slide-O-Mix as thoroughly as possible. I would suggest trying several products over time though and see what you like best. Good luck and welcome to the list. Mike Coyle Composer/Arranger/Trombonist Minneapolis, MN At 04:41 PM 1/12/00 , you wrote: >Hello all, > > IĞm new to the list so this is my first post. IĞm Reyes from Spain. I'm starting to play the trombone (have been with a teacher for a month) and I like it very much. I have a question to ask about the slide. What product do you think is best? My teacher told me to use Trombotine, but in the shop I got my trombone I was shown a diferent thing that has two bottles with diferent greases that you mix in the slide. What do you think? > > Thanks in advance, > >-Reyes > > > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:59:32 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Burnout (was All-State tryouts) Message-ID: <6e.11c8e9.25aea7a4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dean McCarthy writes: << I think that a lot of the kids are burned out by the time that they graduate from high school from the "slave-driver" mentality of some directors. They just have had enough. >> It's a shame, but the slave-driver types weren't out to produce musicians in the long run, so it would be logical for the afflicted to hang it up after graduation. My junior high band director was a fine teacher of fundamentals, a good human being and good trombonist. He consistently produced kids who knew the basics. By far the best thing he did was to instill a LOVE OF MUSIC in nearly all who were in his classes. Going to music class was the highlight of every day. My high school band director (on the other hand) did not have the requisite knowledge to further teach us anything more about music, in fact it seemed as though he knew LESS about music than my junior high director. My high school bands never really played with any quality. The director was mostly a cheerleader; "WIN, WIN, WIN!" but nothing of substance related to the teaching of music. During concert band season we sometimes had clinicians and guest conductors come in who actually got results, much to the embarrassment of our regular teacher. Frustrated, sometimes he would leave the room to sulk outside for ten minutes if he couldn't help us to play well. He said many stupid things in my three years there but the one that I still remember most vividly was that he could not get his band to perform at a high level musically because by the time the students got to him, the junior high band directors had already "burned the kids out." By not giving us more to grow on, he had actually made many in the program loose interest and enthusiasm, especially who were hungry for more learning. Sad. Matt From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:57:17 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This add up to the lack of sportmanship between fellow musicians, there's competition, but one should treat it as a experience, thus not as a "war". -----Original Message----- From: owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu [mailto:owner-trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu]On Behalf Of Dave Burch Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 8:19 AM To: Trombones and related issues forum. Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Chris Waage wrote: > Now, the sectional rivalries were brutal. I had my instrument damaged > several times by rivals, as well as the constant "You suck, you can't play, > give it up" type of garbage that people use to intimidate others. While we of the Cincinnati Brass Band were warming up to compete in last year's North American brass band competition, two teenage boys from one of the several elite youth bands in the adult competition dropped in to listen for a minute. I thought "That's nice, they're showing respect for their fellow competitors". Guess what happened next. As they two turned to leave, one said in a loud stage whisper, "Ah, we can kick their butts!" Ladies and gents, if promoting excellence must come at the cost of instilling such attitudes in our young, then give me mediocrity! P.S. By the way, they didn't kick anybody's butt. Maybe their own. -- @%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@ ------ Dave Burch ------ ---- Hamilton, Ohio ----- -- daveburch@fuse.net -- Church and community trombonist, baritone hornist, recorderist, choral singer After Hours Big Band Cincinnati Brass Band at http://cincinnati.brassband.com Hamilton-Fairfield Symphony Chorale (and sometimes Orchestra) at http://www.hfso.org Senior programmer/analyst, Mercy Health Partners @%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@ From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:03:45 EST From: Posaune9@aol.com To: daboneman@mciworld.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Texas All-State tryouts Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a former Texas All-State Symphony Orchestra participant, I would have to second most of what Dean said. I feel that he was right about the kids getting burned out after high school. The "slave-driver" mentality really does exist in Texas, and there are some very selfish directors in it for their own gain. One area I would like to see the Texas All-state system improve is in sight reading. In most regions and areas, sightreading is not a requirement. Although good sound and musicality should be the main focus and determining factors for being a participant in one of these groups, sightreading is not stressed enough and should play some role in the audition process. By the way, here are some Texans who play trombone in professional orchestras/bands Off the top of my head---- Stefan Sanders--Bass trombone, Buffalo Phil. Steve Lang--Asst. Prin St. Louis Chris Clark--President's Own Marine Band Phil Graham--Second trombone, Dallas Symphony Jimmy Clark--Principal Dallas Opera and Dallas Wind Symphony and if I'm not mistaken, Ron Barron--Principal BSO and Eric Swanson--Bass trombone, Dallas Opera I might add that there are a host of great students from Texas also. Here at Curtis, 2 out of 4 of the trombones in school here are from Texas (one bass/one tenor). I am sure the schools at Eastman and Juilliard have comparable figures. Ryan Johnstone Curtis Institute of Music Philadelphia, PA (215) 496-9266 From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:53 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:07:49 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF5DBE.CF446A40"
I would like to know all of you out there, any recommendation in mouthpiece:  Denis Wick Mouthpiece, Bach, Yamaha, Schilke.
These are the few selection brands we have in Singapore.
Anybody interested in recommending or importing their own range of mouthpieces, pls feel free to email me directly too.
 
Best Regards,
Eric Ang
PG:  92594459
ICQ: 18995426
Check me out at IRC #virtual_world [^gReenPea]
 
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 From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:54 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:11:59 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Bass Trombone Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF5DBF.64AF25C0"
I'm playing a Bach 50BO Bass Trombone - Bach 1.5G Mouthpc, but after a few years of playing while my lower notes gets fuller and deeper, my high notes gets weaker and not so focused.  Its there anyway to train to be a all-rounder, rather than only me able to play the bass register?
 
Anybody can recommend a Bass Trombone from Vincent Bach Series, which will make a better bass trombone then the one i'm using now, or perhaps another models, rather than Yamaha or Besson.
 
Best Regards,
Eric Ang
PG:  92594459
ICQ: 18995426
Check me out at IRC #virtual_world [^gReenPea]
 
*CONFIDENTIAL NOTE:
The information contained in this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above,and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. 
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error,please immediately notify the sender and delete the email. 
 
 From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:54 2000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:52:09 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <387D59F9.67703418@nctimes.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I auditioned for the CA all state the piece was the Gordon Jacob Concerto....MAN, at that time, the high Bb was a real hard note for me....not to even mention the B natural or anything else in that piece. I agree, someone should find out who sets up these auditions and get them to choose high school appropriate music. I would bet that more students would audition and be more sucessful with practicing things other than 'just getting the notes'. Elisabeth From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:54 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:10:01 EST From: TAMU001@aol.com To: TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Texas All-State tryouts Message-ID: <1f.37f722.25aeb829@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My name is James Parsley and I am a junior down in south east Texas. To tell the perspective from a students view. I have been through the process of these tryouts and it's grueling. I just have started to actually realize the joy in playing the trombone and listening to the music around me. I have to say though that the process of going about these tryouts makes me shy away from that. Too me anywhere you go in this state the only thing on someone's mind is Allstate. Don't get me wrong I think winning is a very important thing that should be in your mind, but I think you should gain something from these tryouts than winning. From student to student all that is said is Allstate and not how much the process and preparation has made you a better player. So, if you don't get this honor you feel like that nothing has been accomplished, but actually it has made you a better player. So much time is put in to just winning the audition and not other key things. So, by the time the tryouts are finished you just want to put your horn in the closet and not touch it again for a while. I know also I am a student and early in life, but I had to say what I thought on this subject. So, I say too all out there in this state too stop filling the kids mind with winning and teach them the joy of music and where it can take you. Personally I would love to college and not be burned out of playing my horn by the time I get there From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:54 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:14:41 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: FOpal@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Trombone/WW Duets (was Re: IAJE) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Frank, If you don't mind "borrowing" from other instruments' repertoire, try to find some woodwind duets involving bassoon and play the bassoon part. I don't know very much about that repertoire, but maybe someone else could step in and suggest a few trombone-friendly ones to you. Beth L. On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 FOpal@aol.com wrote: > Hello guys its me again. I was wondering if anyone could suggest some > awesome sounds trombone/other woodwood duet? We dont really have a lot of > strong brass players but we have a ton of good woodwinds. I would like one > that sounds very musical and not too easy... I am quite musical and technical > so pick accordingly. Any questions EMail me . THanx!! > > Frank Opal > > From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:54 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:51:54 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Cc: "Alvin Ang" , "Benson Kong" Subject: Vincent Bach 50T Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF5DCD.59A92780"
Greetings,
Can somebody quote me the current price for Vincent Bach Bass Trombone Model 50T?
 
Thank You.
 
Best Regards,
Eric Ang
PG:  92594459
ICQ: 18995426
Check me out at IRC #virtual_world [^gReenPea]
 
*CONFIDENTIAL NOTE:
The information contained in this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above,and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. 
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error,please immediately notify the sender and delete the email. 
 
 From ???@??? Thu Jan 13 07:50:54 2000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:54:00 +0100 From: r.neeracher@bluemail.ch To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: <167a7116825e.16825e167a71@bluemail.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Von: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur > Hi Mike and list, > >(snip) > For my doubling on modern instruments I ended up buying a whole > set of > Doug Elliott mouthpieces. One for tuba, one for bass trombone, one rim > with two cups for euph and tenor trombone. For those of you that > are not > familiar with Doug's mouthpieces they are all three pieces so I could > have purchased the same rim for everything. Tom Izzo once wrote me that he plays the SAME RIM on trumpet, trombone, tuba, watering-can and everything else he has in his collection. I still can't imagine how THAT works but maybe he can explain to the list. Ruedi -- E-mail for everyone! http://www.bluemail.ch/ powered by the blue window