TROMBONE-L Digest 1567 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Another Slide Question by "Eric Edwards" 2) Texas bore size (was appropriateness) by "Tom C. Shaddox" 3) More on Urbie by "Denver D. Seifried" 4) RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 5) Re: More on Urbie by Mike Loewen 6) Re: plunger players-contemporary by "Christopher Smith" 7) RE: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 8) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Douglas Yeo 9) Re: Greg Black mouthpieces by Neobopr@aol.com 10) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by "Joe L. Norcross" 11) Appropriateness All-State by "Adolphus Sprott" 12) Solfege, was Practicing High Stuff by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 13) Re: Appropriateness All-State by Tbcwes@aol.com 14) Re: I knew jazz was good for something :-) by PAUL LUKAS 15) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Dennis Clason 16) Re: Philly bones by "Thomas Smee" 17) RE: volume control by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 18) Serocki and David Recordings by Daniel Maslowski 19) Re: Solfege, was Practicing High Stuff by "Thomas Smee" 20) Re: Serocki and David Recordings by Chris Waage 21) A Screwball Observation by Chris Waage 22) Re: Serocki and David Recordings by "Chuck De Paolo" 23) Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) by "Adrian Drover" 24) FW: thayer valves - not! by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 25) Re: Practicing High Stuff by "Adrian Drover" 26) Re: transcription project by "Adrian Drover" 27) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by "Adrian Drover" 28) Re: Serocki and David Recordings by Douglas Yeo 29) Re: Appropriateness All-State by Douglas Yeo 30) maintaince of Thayer valves by David Hummer JILA 31) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by "Daniel Pliskin" 32) Re: Appropriateness All-State by Chris Waage 33) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by Mike Coyle 34) Re: Appropriateness All-State by "Stephen Hunt" 35) Re: A Screwball Observation by "Mr. Maxwell @ Sequoia Middle School" 36) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by "Mr. Maxwell @ Sequoia Middle School" 37) Re: A Screwball Observation by Mike Coyle 38) Zellmer-Competition by LEICHSENRINM@wartburg.edu 39) Re: Appropriateness by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 40) Re: Concrete guidelines/Win at all costs by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 41) Re: Auditions and preparation by Dennis Clason 42) New York Phil on TV (USA) by Scott Ruedger 43) Re: New York Phil on TV (USA) by Douglas Yeo 44) Re: Serocki and David Recordings by Servo149@aol.com 45) Concrete guidelines by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 46) Re: Appropriateness by "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." 47) Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) by Douglas Yeo 48) Re: The Pines of Rome by Servo149@aol.com 49) all-state by "Adolphus Sprott" 50) Trombone teacher in Charlotte, NC? by Douglas Yeo 51) Re: Auditions and preparation by Dan Aldag 52) Re: all-state by "Rodney Ellard" 53) Re: transcription project by "Les Benedict" 54) Re: transcription project/copyright ownership by "Chuck De Paolo" 55) Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) by "Kenneth Dowdy" 56) Email Update by David Nuzum 57) Re: transcription project/free distribution by "Chuck De Paolo" 58) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by "Art Triggs" 59) All-state (revised and corrected) by "Rodney Ellard" 60) Re: New York Phil on TV (USA) by Tbcwes@aol.com 61) Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) by Tbcwes@aol.com 62) Re: Another Slide Question by Russ Kreigh 63) Overhaul by Mike Loewen 64) Re: transcription project by Mike Coyle 65) Re: The Pines of Rome by Douglas Yeo 66) Re: transcription project/copyright ownership by Mike Coyle 67) Re: transcription project/free distribution by Mike Coyle 68) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by Mike Coyle 69) Re: Trombone teacher in Charlotte, NC? by Earl Needham 70) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by "Robert Holland" 71) Re: Appropriateness All-State by Larry White 72) Support opera/win car by Eric and Candice Swanson 73) Re: A Screwball Observation by "Aaron Roth" 74) Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) by Dave Burch 75) (no subject) by BarryMcCom@aol.com 76) Re: Overhaul by Dave Burch 77) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Eric and Candice Swanson 78) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Tbcwes@aol.com 79) Texas All-State tryouts (long) by BASSBENGE@aol.com 80) Morceau Symphonique orch parts? by Douglas Yeo From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:14 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:24:05 -0600 From: "Eric Edwards" To: "Trombone-L(posts)" , Subject: Re: Another Slide Question Message-ID: <001301bf5c2e$c207b800$2233aec7@Flashnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett, check to see if your slide runs smooth with out any creme. Wipe the inner tubes and swab the outer tubes, the slide should work fairly well dry. If not then return to where you purchased it and have a repairman check it out. I have yet to see a slide work well straight out of the box from a major manufacturer. Some of the sluggishness might come from the fact that it's a new slide and needs to have the creme build up slightly in the outer tubes. But be careful not to overload the slide with creme. There's a very fine line between just enough and too much. If I can be of any further help, feel free to E-mail me off list. Good luck. Thanks, Eric Bonearzt@mindspring.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:14 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:44:03 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Texas bore size (was appropriateness) Message-ID: <387B33A3.5B778413@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I attended a high school music festival here in Texas a few months back. I saw probably 200 trombonists total. .547 was the norm - maybe 80% of the total. Double valve bass trombones outnumbered the straight horns. Oh, did I mention this was a marching festival? I sat behind the band at a middle school football game (second and third year players, 12 to 14 years old). Seven trombones - five .547 bore horns, one .525 bore horn, all with triggers, and one double valve bass trombone. Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ljshaddo@gte.net From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:14 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:48:41 -0500 From: "Denver D. Seifried" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: More on Urbie Message-ID: <001401bf5c3a$9267d4c0$c6685acf@dscomp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF5C10.A8E0CC40"
After reading all of the great comments concerning Urbie Green, by several of the list members, I wanted to share one of my most memorable musical experiences with Urbie. Back in the early 1970's, musicians in Springfield, OH were lucky enough to be able to hear Urbie live, at one of our local high schools.
North High School and our local King dealer were able to bring Urbie to Springfield for a clinic-concert. Urbie performed solos with the North High Bands and Wittenberg University Jazz Band. The highlight of the evening, for me, was that Urbie brought along a whole stack of the 21 Trombone arrangements which 20 of us local trombone players and Urbie performed on the concert that evening.
After hearing Urbie playing these charts on my recordings, it was really one of the highlights in my playing career to actually perform the same charts, live, with Urbie. I hope others on the list were so blessed to work with or hear Urbie live.
 
Denny Seifried
Bass Trombone-Springfield(OH) Symphony-Dayton Jazz Orchestra
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:14 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:02:23 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For that matter, play it on an alto the way it was probably intended in the first place (the original was written in alto clef, wasn't it?). Man, we have jerks asking kids to play stuff that scares pros, and with instruments too big for the piece to boot. It is no wonder that Jazz Band is taking off in our area. At least the kids are given a chance to express themselves and try to put some feeling in their work and make music instead of becoming musical athletes. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Ellard [SMTP:ellard@sprint.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:45 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) > > Didn't this thread start with a discussion about a high eb in Symphonie > Fantastique? So play the pea shooter and argue that it is more > "authentic", > i.e. more similar to the peashooter French 'bones Berlioz wrote for. > > Rod > > From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:14 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:04:45 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Loewen To: "Denver D. Seifried" Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: More on Urbie Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Denver D. Seifried wrote: > Wittenberg University Jazz Band. The highlight of the evening, for me, > was that Urbie brought along a whole stack of the 21 Trombone > arrangements which 20 of us local trombone players and Urbie performed > on the concert that evening. After hearing Urbie playing these charts > on my recordings, it was really one of the highlights in my playing > career to actually perform the same charts, live, with Urbie. I hope > others on the list were so blessed to work with or hear Urbie live. I had a similar experience here at Penn State while I was a student, around 1973/74. Urbie was the featured soloist with the Concert Blue Band, and we worked up "Somethin' You Got" and "Here's That Rainy Day" (if my failing memory serves) with a group of trombones from the concert and marching bands. Not only was it a pleasure to hear first hand a player of his caliber, but it was my first opportunity to play in a large trombone ensemble. At that time Penn State didn't have a trombone choir, and the sound just blew me away. Mike Loewen Tenor/Bass Trombone and Tuba mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/mloewen.html From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:14 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:06:47 GMT From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: plunger players-contemporary Message-ID: <20000111140647.93647.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Rod Ellard wrote: >Re: plungers and mutes: So why wouldn't any trumpet straight mute work? ....we're talking wah-wah here and..... ++++++++ For the same reason that "any" trombone won't work for most people. But go ahead and use whatever you want to. After all, it's only "wah-wah". ;^) Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:15 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:25:26 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mike, I think that it is probably an individual thing. I've read the same things about doubling that you have, and I figure that the guys who wrote the books must know something. However, I have not reached the point in my playing that small changes in the mouthpiece are all that noticeable. I have found no problem playing the trumpet after I play the trombone, but I have found it difficult in the past to play the trombone immediately after the trumpet. Currently, I have been using a much larger trumpet mouthpiece (Schilke 24) and a much smaller trombone mouthpiece (Schilke 40B) and have found that I can swap between the two instruments relatively easily. For me, I have found that the shape of the mouthpiece affects me more than the actual diameter. For example, I have a hard time switching between a mouthpiece that is hemispherical vs conical. I also have a hard time switching between one that is flat rimmed and one that is more rounded. However, if the basic shape is the same, I don't have that much problem switching. About the only thing that really messes me up is the cornetto. After playing that, I can't play anything else for a while. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Coyle [SMTP:astro@pconline.com] > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 8:05 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Doubling and using different mouthpieces > > Big question here. Almost any pedagogical literature you read about brass > playing will stress the importance of using the same mouthpiece rim size > (not to mention the same physical setup) so as to allow your lips to > develop the muscular memory required to respond consistently. In the real > world (where many of us reside), let's face it, a lot of people switch > mouthpieces for use in different horns or for different types of music. > There are lots of folks on this list that do that and many who play > several different brass instruments other than the trombone (I myself play > alto horn and cornet on occasion and try to stay in reasonable shape). > > Reg Fink in his book on trombone technique is adamant about using the same > trombone mouthpiece, however, admits that using a mouthpiece that differs > greatly in size (i.e. going from trombone to cornet or French horn) won't > cause problems as they are so far apart in size and will actually both > develop different muscle "grooves" (over simplified, but you get my > point). > I know lots of guys (I used to be one of them) who play both tenor and > bass trombone - obviously they are not using the same mouthpiece or even > the same rim in the case of interchangeable cups and rims. > > So, what do y'all think about using different mouthpiece sizes which are > rather close in size (e.g. different trombone mouthpieces). Be honest, be > brave, share your experience. > > Thanks a lot, > > mike From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:15 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:32:54 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" This thread on the appropriateness of requiring high school students to play an excerpt from the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique at a Texas All-State audition is very interesting and is provoking an excellent discussion. Early on, I responded that you have to play the ink - but at that time, I didn't know this was a high school player auditioning. That changes the dynamic of the discussion significantly. Here in Massachusetts, the All-State committee has had a 5 year rotating list of tenor trombone solos for many years. The tenor trombone list is: ===== Hutchinson - Sonatina (Carl Fischer) Barat - Andante et Allegro (Carl Fischer David - Concertino (Carl Fischer) Blazhevich - Concert Piece #5 (Warner) Marcello/Fote - Sonata III (Kendor) ===== One look at the list will tell you the problems. For students who would hope that auditioning for all state each year would help them put a few quality pieces in their pocket for college auditions they are sorely disappointed in Massachusetts. My feeling is that All-State solos should be challenging and provide excellent material for students to play for college auditions. Not all students will play them as well (freshman-seniors audition on the same music) but thre is a progression here for each player, and much to be gained by working on quality repertoire. After all that work, would you rather have learned a piece that will be useful to you in the future or something that so tromboen teacher will every put before you if he had a choice of repertoire? The biggest scandal is the Marcello edition by Richard Fote which is full of mistakes and inconsistencies between the solo and piano parts. The teacher of a high school student is confronted, in such situations, with a dilemma: do you correct the errors in the part (about a half dozen) and have the student play what SHOULD be there, or do you have him learn the mistakes because the judge expects to hear them? This problem is not so different at professional orchestral auditions as well, for instance there are two misprints in all copies of the bass trombone part of Till Eulenspiegel - one is actually a wrong note (the last note of the first "big lick" should be an F, not a D, and in the second "big lick" there are 3 erroneous accents which should not be there). What do you do? The other problem is what to do about bass trombone players, who are confronted with pieces which show off the middle to upper register but never reach below the staff. In our family, our oldest daughter (now a college junior) played bass trombone, so I, as her teacher, modified the solos by transposing them to keys which accentuated her low register. Since then, I advocated strongly for a bass trombone category to be added to the Massachusetts All-State list and I'm happy to say that this year, for the first time, bass trombone players here can actually play bass trombone repertoire at the All-State audition. Here is the bass trombone list: ===== Lebedev - Concerto in One Movement (Editions Musicus) Walter Skolnick - "Three Pieces for Bass Trombone (Theodore Presser) (Movements 2, 3 - no mute required) Handel/arr. Yeo - Sonata Op. 1, No. 12 (International Music) (Movements 1, 2) McCarty - Sonata for Bass Trombone (Ensemble Publications) (Movements 1, 2) Hidas - Meditation (Editio Musicas Budapest) (Movements 1, 2) ===== We also have come up with a list for the Northeast Senior district level which is: ===== Hindemith - Drei Liechte Stuecke (Schott) (Movements 1, 2) Thom Ritter George -Concerto for Bass Trombone (Accura Music) Hartley -Sonata Breve (Theodore Presser) Spillman -Two Songs (Editions Musicus) Wilder -Sonata for Bass Trombone (Margun Music) (Movements 1, 4, 5) ===== OK, all well and good, but what about the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique? A similar thing happened in Massachusetts when All-State orchestra programmed the Mendelssohn 5th Symphony. Let's leave aside the problems with playing the work with a 150 piece orchestra. And can you believe it, even with all those players, they left out the SERPENT part? ;-) Of course, the first trombone part has repeated high d's, and I wondered what the player would do who won the first trombone spot. He was sensible - he took them down an octave. The audition piece he played had no such high range demands, and as the notes come in orchestral tutti passages, taking down the high notes was a sensible solution to the fact that he simply couldn't play the part as written. The same case can be made for a HS student playing the Berlioz - do you force and squeak out the note where it won't be heard, or let the cornets and the rest of the orchestra blast it out while you take it down an octave where no one will be the wiser? Remember, we are talking about high school, here, not the Chicago Symphony. The question put to the list, however, is whether is is appropriate to ask students to play the Berlioz excerpt at the audition. I don't think so. As has been said by many list members, many players will focus on the single note. And, unfortunately, many judges will, too. Lost to many hearing the auditions will be any musicianship and other positive aspects of playing. What to do? Well, the situation for this year is lost - all students are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Sure, there may be a HS student who can play the high e flat, but what if his prepared solo is dull and boring? What if he muffs up his scales? What's a judge to do? The idea of HS students playing excerpts for a HS All-State audition troubles me. Most students don't have private teachers, and haven't lived long enough to develop a credible orchestral sense. I don't work on excerpts with my college students until they are sophomores or juniors - to do so before then - before the fundamentals are in place, before there has been sufficient listening and orchestral concert attendance, before the player has an understanding about what the role of the trombone is in the orchestra - you will spend a whole lesson on interpretation and style of a single excerpt ant it will get perhaps 25% better. Excerpts are a PROCESS which take YEARS. No, I don't think excerpts are something that should appear on a HS all state audition. They will almost always be played poorly even if all the notes are hit. A sensible judge is at a loss at how to grade the performance - what if all the notes are right but the interpretation is pathetic - or, conversely, what if the interpretation is great but many notes get missed? When works are programmed for all state orchestra which have unusual demands on players, a fix can usually be found by reorchestrating the passage, having a player play it down an octave, etc. It can be done - it SHOULD be done for young players if we are to ENCOURAGE rather than FRUSTRATE them in their playing. Requiring a student to play an excerpt which he is unable to execute and which has virtually nothing to do with his development as a young player (that kind of preparation can come later) is, to me, and obviously to many others, wrongheaded. Any music teachers in Texas on the list who want to tackle this with the Texas All-State committee? It might be like trying to steer the Titanic, but it might be worth a shot. On the other hand, if you think HS students playing the excerpt is a great idea, what kinds of CONCRETE guidelines do you think judges should use in evaluating the audition? -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:15 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:39:01 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Greg Black mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Milt Stevens, principal with The National Symphony in DC, plays on a few of the Greg Black pieces. The ones I know he uses off the top of my head are the 4g and 4g-5g combo. He said he loves them. Jeff From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:15 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:40:41 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <000001bf5c45$2204c520$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking at my audition list for the Calif Band directors Assn. for this Feb. There is a different solo for tenor and bass trombone. Not sure if this has always been the case. As for auditions, they are volunteers and give a lot of effort to judge well. Not all will be in their own specialty. Last year I wound up judging clarinet scales. I may not know the ins and outs of that axe, but I can judge tone quality, accuracy of pitch and rhythm. Those things do not change ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Clason To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 3:01 PM Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) >> other music that presents technical challenges of a professional level >> in an audition. Here in California, the All-State audition solo this >> year was the first movement of the Serocki "Sonatina." I have a very >> talented private student who made the band, but I know that he struggled >> to meet the technical challenges of the piece, and as a result, playing >> musically took a back seat to just-trying-to-play-the-right-notes. > >The California All-State auditions have always used relatively difficult pieces. >The two years I auditioned, they used Paul Tanner's Aria (tenor version) and >David's Concertino. The Tanner isn't quite as difficult, notewise, but the >harmonies are, ummm, (forgive me, Paul) esoteric. It isn't a trivial piece >notewise, and I had to struggle to make music out of them. Add the stress of >the live audition ... and an adjuticator who didn't know beans about trombones >(he classified the 72H I was playing as a tenor ... I guess because it only had >one valve). were better on the day of the placement auditions. > >The thing that really chafed me was that even though I auditioned as a bass >trombonist, I had to play the tenor solos. From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:15 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:10:17 -0600 From: "Adolphus Sprott" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: <004701bf5c46$0a56f3c0$79f6490c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01BF5C13.ADCB9E80"
Let me clear up some confusion about the Texas All-State auditions.  I am a Texas all-state trombonist and I am quite familiar with the way this works.  First the students must place highly in both region and area auditions before reaching the state level.  These auditions are over three etudes, which this year came from the Blazhevich Advanced Etudes book.  Once the students qualify for all-state, they are given a packet which included 5-10 excerpts.  At the audition, the judging panel will choose 3-4 of those excerpts to be played.  The student is held responsible for knowing them all.  Excerpts are the only thing on the all-state audition.  So, if the judges feel that the high e flat in inappropriate, they have the choice to not choose it as an audition piece.  The list for this year is as follows:
 
Berlioz-Symphonie Fantastique (mvt. 4 and 5)
Hindemith-Symphonic Metamorpheses (all)
Kozhevnikov-Symphony No.3 (mvt. 1)
Fucik-Florentiner March
 
So the judges have a good choice of what they want to pick because there are several excerpts in each piece.  The clinician did program Symphonie Fantastique.  I think the judges will be fair.  Most of the time, they are all college professors and they know what to look for.  Also, the clinicians know of the strength of their sections well in advance.  I'm sure they have been informed that Texas has an extremely talented group of trombones this year.  Picking the high e flat may be the only way for the judges to separate the top three or four people.  I know all the best high school players in Texas, and I would vouch for the fact that there are five of us who can actually play the note with good accuracy and tone quality.  The judges probably won't determine the chair order of everyone in the room by one note, but it may be the deciding factor between the top players who are extremely close in ability and musicality.  For this reason, I think it is an appropriate excerpt selection because the judges are smart enough people know that be able to play high isn't all that counts.
 
Weston Sprott
Texas All-State Trombonist
 
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:15 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:13:56 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Solfege, was Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wrote > For > ear training exercises, I am partial to traditional solfege using movable > "do". I can try to explain it in more detail if it's of any immediate > interest to anyone > and AlRobnett responded > I have certainly had this problem and would like to hear more about your > exercises. > Well, there's one. I'm sending this to the list in case there is more general interest. As Oscar Hammerstein wrote, "Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start." Using movable do, every major scale is do re mi fa sol la ti do. Every minor (aeolian) scale is la ti do re mi fa sol la. Every dorian scale starts on re, etc. We won't get into chromatics just now. The advantage of learning movable do is that it puts the entire scale in your mind at once, and you can hear how every note in the scale relates to every other note. 1) Using the syllables, sing scales--all the modes, up and down, starting low, starting high. Learn that mi-fa and ti-do are always half steps, wherever they appear. Get to where it is impossible for you to sing a whole step to these syllables or a half step anywhere else. 2) Sing scale patterns. Do mi re fa mi sol, etc. Do re mi do, re mi fa re, mi fa sol mi, etc. Do mi re do, re fa mi re, etc. (Not a bad idea to play similar patterns on the trombone!). All the ones I have written go up the scale. But of course, you will need to go down the scale, too. Now for some advanced patterns: do fa re sol mi la, etc. The same thing in 5ths, 6ths, 7ths! Do similar patterns for other modes. Write out the notes if you must, but it's cheating to write in the syllables! Don't do it! Once you learn a pattern, sing it in several different keys. 3) Once you are secure on singing all the modes, pick any note and sing various modes starting on that note. (C major, C phrygian, C lochrian, C minor, etc.) 4) Arpeggios are very important. Start from the root (do mi sol mi do), third (mi do mi sol mi), and fifth (sol mi do mi sol) in all modes. Work up to being able to sing any triad in any mode beginning with any chord member starting on any note. (It's good to use a piano to test yourself). That is, pick any starting note and sing, say, a minor triad from the root (la do mi do la), a major triad from the fifth, a minor triad from the third, etc. Plan a sequence of three or four chords, play the note on the piano, sing the first chord and play it, sing and then play the second, etc. 5) Do the same thing in first and second inversion. 6) Don't rush this one, but you can do the same thing with seventh chords as with triads! 7) Sing the chords for various harmonic progressions (I IV V I, I ii V I, i iv V i, I vi IV ii V I, I ii6 V I ). 8) Get some hymns, chorales, harmonically uncomplicated songs, and sing them using syllables. Pick familiar ones at first to learn the syllables, then sing from sight. Hooked? I hope so. This is very important. Eventually, you should get a good textbook and learn the chromatic syllables and modulations. I always liked Bruce Benward's Sight Singing Complete. Benward died several years ago, I think, so I have no idea if any of his stuff is still in print. But there's bound to be plenty of other things to choose from. But insist on movable do. Nothing else puts the entire scale in your head. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:52:02 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: weslanke@worldnet.att.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: <6b.6ba42901.25acaba2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/11/00 10:14:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, weslanke@worldnet.att.net writes: << I know all the best high school players in Texas, and I would vouch for the fact that there are five of us who can actually play the note with good accuracy and tone quality. >> The point thus far has been this ... it is not about the one high e-flat. If it turns out that it IS about that one note - something is very wrong. It is, however, about the entire excerpt and that not many if any high school players are informed enough to play that particular excerpt in the manner that it should be played. There are some very talented in fact some down right scary high school trombone players, but the fact is that most if not all of them are just that, trombone players. They do not have the background experience or the listening skills or all the things it takes to be a well rounded musician - yet. When I was in high school, I was considered to be pretty darn good. I made all state 9 times in various forms (chorus, jazz band, wind ensemble and orchestra). But I was a good player not a good musician. This is why I believe this... Yes, music is inside of me. Yes, it is inside all of those who become good musicians in some form or another. Could I prove it at 10 years old - no, not me. The reason was and is education. Without education you have no avenue through the music can flow. You need to gain information through teachers, classes, history, listening, live performances, etc., before you acquire these things (that most HS students are not afforded) you are living in your own little bubble. Sarah Chang could express herself at a dangerously young age because she was educated at a dangerously young age. I was not so I could not. But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong. ;-) -Wes From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:02:52 -0600 From: PAUL LUKAS To: angie@cybersolvers.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: I knew jazz was good for something :-) Message-ID: <387B542C.46DFACC5@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angie Brunk wrote: > >MARK YOUR CALENDARS FOR WEDNESDAY, MARCH 15TH AND COME ON OVER TO EMPORIA > >FOR A DAY OF JAZZ!! THE School of Library and Information Management at > >Emporia State University and the Kansas State Library are sponsoring a > >conference in which you'll hear jazz AND investigate jazz and improvisation > >as metaphors that can teach us more about leadership, management, and > >librarianship. Wowah!!!!!! Librarians learning from JAZZERS! In all truth, I'd have to see it to believe it. If this works, my stereotypical view of female librarians has just been blown to hell! Keep us informed, Angie. Best! -- E. PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:42:12 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <200001111643.JAA203896@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: j.grisham@pmail.net trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from j.grisham@pmail.net 01/10/00 9:48pm -0600 > Actually, I really kind of wish that maybe I could play the part on my .500 > bore horn. This afternoon, after a short jazz band meeting, I was messing > around, and I could actually play the part on my 6H.. at least 9 times out > of 10, or more. But, of course, with a smaller horn, I would be sacrificing > my sound, so it is pretty much a given that I HAVE to play it on my .547 > bore trombone. Why are you sacrificing sound? It shouldn't sound THAT different. Besides, Berlioz wrote expecting a section of peashooters. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:06:58 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Re: Philly bones Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline I'll second the recommendation of "The Dance Album", which stresses the 'Charlie Chaplin-esque" end of Shostakovich's personality. Its refreshing an fun and thats how the orchestra plays it. The Philadelphia Orchestra is now back in my collection of recordings after a long exile (which started when Gil Johnson retired and ended when David Bilger, who is a fabulous player, took over on principal trumpet - he's also on some excellent Dallas recordings). Another recording I'd highly recommend is the EMI/Philadelphia/Sawallisch recording of Zarathustra. It is by far my favourite now. Wonderful playing, excellent recorded sound. Tom Smee >>> 01/11/00 01:04am >>> David Pozos writes: << I picked up a really nice CD over the holidays. I wonder if anyone might know who the bone players are on the Philadelphia recording of Rachmaniov 1 with Charles Dutoit recorded November of 1991 (London 436 283-2). >> Recorded in 1996, I highly recommend the Philadelphia Orchestra's CD of the Shostakovich suites from The Bolt, The Gadfly and Cheryomushki. The CD is entitled "The Dance Album" and is on London 452-597-2. Conductor on this recording is Ricardo Chailly and it's a really impressive CD: the trombone section is superb, in fact, the orchestra is virtuoso all the way, and the interpretation and recording quality is amazing. All around, I think of it as a "must have" CD in my collection. Matt Varho bass trombonist From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:11:21 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: Neobopr@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: volume control Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082E98@LEE2> No, I don't think this is necessarily true. (that heavier bells will play louder before "breaking up," whatever that means.) What would that mean, that the brass got stretched out of shape? I don't think so, it is essentially at atmospheric pressure with an infinitesimal variation above and below. Even near the leadpipe there isn't much pressure in a trombone, but near the bell, that 8 inch wide leak tends to make it hard to hold any pressure at all. Do that experiment suggested by our trumpet playing friend, where you blow a soap bubble from the bell. Also I can think of some counter examples, where very thin bells can play quite loudly. What I'm wondering is: when the sound "breaks up" due to the instrument (i.e. still within your chops's ability to control) does it only sound that way next to your ear, or at the back of the hall also? I suspect next to your ear only. And when your embouchure's limitation is exceeded, what is physically happening? Just thinking out loud, to play loudly you have to make your lips flap a lot, which takes moving a bunch of air past your lips. That air has nowhere else to go but into the horn (a small amount leaks out my corners but I'm working on it. ) That air is moving so slowly it is essentially still as seen by the sound wave. But when playing loudly, so much of it is moving that the increased friction might be having an effect? This is not something addressed in the usual acoustics texts. yours, tim richardson ps good luck at the audition, Jeff. > -----Original Message----- > From: Neobopr@aol.com [SMTP:Neobopr@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 7:34 PM > To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu > Subject: Re: volume control > > When it is a professional player, over-blowing the horn and/or too > bright/tinny of a tone, is equipment. This is proportionally related to > bell > thickness and bell construction material, soldered rim, heavy slide, etc. > > The heavier a bell and/or the more dense its material (like sterling > silver), > the louder you can play it before it breaks up. Conversely, the thinner > the > bell and/or the less dense its material (like rose brass), the more > quickly > it will break up. > > I had a Yamaha 641 which was a .551 bore horn with a rose brass bell. I > could play salsa volume all night on that thing and it was bright and > loud. > I would never have considered using that horn symphonically. My new 682B > > .547 bore has a very thick and heavy gold brass bell. It takes a > heckuvalotta power before it even gets brighter. > > Jeff Adams > (being stressed at the Houston Audition) From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:21:03 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Maslowski To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Serocki and David Recordings Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello everyone, I was just looking for good recordings of the Serocki Sonatina and the David Concertino other than the Lindberg recordings. Any ideas? Thanks for any info provided. -Dan Maslowski Illinois State University Music Education - Trombone demaslo@ilstu.edu From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:22:42 -0500 From: "Thomas Smee" To: Subject: Re: Solfege, was Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Great response! Another source of material is Zoltan Kodaly (of Hary Janos fame), who was keenly interested in music education and wrote a complete range of moveable do sight singing materials from the very basic to some awesomely difficult duets and trios which my wife worked through when studying Kodaly pedagogy. >>> "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 01/11/00 10:13am >>> I wrote > For > ear training exercises, I am partial to traditional solfege using movable > "do". I can try to explain it in more detail if it's of any immediate > interest to anyone > and AlRobnett responded > I have certainly had this problem and would like to hear more about your > exercises. > Well, there's one. I'm sending this to the list in case there is more general interest. As Oscar Hammerstein wrote, "Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start." Using movable do, every major scale is do re mi fa sol la ti do. Every minor (aeolian) scale is la ti do re mi fa sol la. Every dorian scale starts on re, etc. We won't get into chromatics just now. The advantage of learning movable do is that it puts the entire scale in your mind at once, and you can hear how every note in the scale relates to every other note. 1) Using the syllables, sing scales--all the modes, up and down, starting low, starting high. Learn that mi-fa and ti-do are always half steps, wherever they appear. Get to where it is impossible for you to sing a whole step to these syllables or a half step anywhere else. 2) Sing scale patterns. Do mi re fa mi sol, etc. Do re mi do, re mi fa re, mi fa sol mi, etc. Do mi re do, re fa mi re, etc. (Not a bad idea to play similar patterns on the trombone!). All the ones I have written go up the scale. But of course, you will need to go down the scale, too. Now for some advanced patterns: do fa re sol mi la, etc. The same thing in 5ths, 6ths, 7ths! Do similar patterns for other modes. Write out the notes if you must, but it's cheating to write in the syllables! Don't do it! Once you learn a pattern, sing it in several different keys. 3) Once you are secure on singing all the modes, pick any note and sing various modes starting on that note. (C major, C phrygian, C lochrian, C minor, etc.) 4) Arpeggios are very important. Start from the root (do mi sol mi do), third (mi do mi sol mi), and fifth (sol mi do mi sol) in all modes. Work up to being able to sing any triad in any mode beginning with any chord member starting on any note. (It's good to use a piano to test yourself). That is, pick any starting note and sing, say, a minor triad from the root (la do mi do la), a major triad from the fifth, a minor triad from the third, etc. Plan a sequence of three or four chords, play the note on the piano, sing the first chord and play it, sing and then play the second, etc. 5) Do the same thing in first and second inversion. 6) Don't rush this one, but you can do the same thing with seventh chords as with triads! 7) Sing the chords for various harmonic progressions (I IV V I, I ii V I, i iv V i, I vi IV ii V I, I ii6 V I ). 8) Get some hymns, chorales, harmonically uncomplicated songs, and sing them using syllables. Pick familiar ones at first to learn the syllables, then sing from sight. Hooked? I hope so. This is very important. Eventually, you should get a good textbook and learn the chromatic syllables and modulations. I always liked Bruce Benward's Sight Singing Complete. Benward died several years ago, I think, so I have no idea if any of his stuff is still in print. But there's bound to be plenty of other things to choose from. But insist on movable do. Nothing else puts the entire scale in your head. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:34:01 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: Re: Serocki and David Recordings Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Browse through Hickey's Trombone Catalog - http://www.hickeys.com Chris >Hello everyone, > I was just looking for good recordings of the Serocki Sonatina >and the David Concertino other than the Lindberg recordings. Any ideas? >Thanks for any info provided. > -Dan Maslowski > Illinois State University > Music Education - Trombone > demaslo@ilstu.edu _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:36:17 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L Subject: A Screwball Observation Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did you know that a Schilke 60 is about the same width as a newborn's pacifier? ;-) Chris _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:46:12 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: "Trombone List" Subject: Re: Serocki and David Recordings Message-ID: <00f401bf5c5b$c0577680$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are the only three of which I'm aware: Alain Trudel - "Recital" Ralph Sauer - "Sauer Plays..." Christian Lindberg - "Burlesque Trombone" In Music, ---Chuck General Manager & Webmaster Hickey's Music Center 104 Adams Street Ithaca, NY 14850 607.272.8262 (Phone) 607.272.2203 (Fax) chuck@hickeys.com (E-Mail) http://www.hickeys.com (Website) http://208.134.241.150/weather/us/cities/NY_Ithaca.html (Weather) ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Maslowski To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:21 PM Subject: Serocki and David Recordings > Hello everyone, > I was just looking for good recordings of the Serocki Sonatina > and the David Concertino other than the Lindberg recordings. Any ideas? > Thanks for any info provided. > -Dan Maslowski > Illinois State University > Music Education - Trombone > demaslo@ilstu.edu > > > From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:26:20 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) Message-ID: <000001bf5c5e$f7120de0$0d8101d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Sleeman To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) > BTW, brassbands fill the gap between the Bb flŸgel and the euphonium with > the alto horn (in England called tenor horn for some unknown reason)! Yes but the Tenor Horn does not have the same warmth as the Flugel or Euph. The Tenor (Eb) Horn in British Bands is one of the Saxhorn family, related to the Cornets and Bari. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:07:55 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: FW: thayer valves - not! Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082E99@LEE2> Here's another post that disappeared into cyberspace. I wouldn't have re-sent it, but at this weeks concert three other trombonists, all more accomplished than I, were playing rotaries out of preference. There was some discussion of how maintenance intensive thayers seem to be. I have to respect the symphony pro's choice of the thayer, but I have come to believe that most of the rest of us are better off spending more time playing and less time adjusting and lubricating. I'm not trying to say they aren't any good, just that for me the small benefit isn't worth the extra work. yours, tim richardson > -----Original Message----- > From: Richardson, Tim > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 2:08 PM > To: 'bonepost' > Subject: FW: thayer valves - not! > > > All this talk of the tricky maintenance on thayers in this and many > previous threads makes me kind of glad I stayed with the old fashioned > rotary. > > They never leak, never stick, and never seem to need any maintenance. > I've never taken mine apart. I put a little oil on it once in a while out > of a sense of guilt but I've never been able to tell it made any > difference. When it starts clanking I lube and tighten the linkage, > that's all. > > Still thinking about that double loop piston valve that's been posted a > couple of times now, though. > yours, > tim richardson From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:16 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:27:53 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: <000201bf5c5e$fb1064a0$0d8101d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Practicing High Stuff > I think the real root problem is that the notes above sixth partial are less > familiar to me because I've so seldom played them I'm no trombone teacher, so don't take this as gospel until you have consulted other advice, but this approach has definitely increased my performance register: I have developed my own warm up which has a range of 4.5 octaves ("13th position" BBb pedal to 12th partial F), though I do not expect to be confronted with any piece of music that spans more than 3 octaves (Pedal F to 6th partial F). I figure that if I can manage a 5th or more on either side of my tessitura, the mid-range will be easy. It usually is. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:26:29 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: transcription project Message-ID: <000101bf5c5e$f9eb6ca0$0d8101d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Clason To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 5:07 PM Subject: Re: transcription project > Who owns the print copyright to an improvised solo? Probably nobody, unless it has already been transcribed and published. But I may be wrong. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:30:41 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) Message-ID: <000301bf5c5e$fd8caf40$0d8101d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Coyle To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:11 AM Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) > ...and, in the event that you are playing the prelude to act III of Die > WalkŸre, make believe you're making love to a very large woman wearing > armour plating and a helmet with horns... Now that sounds like the Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner that we all love. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:21:05 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Serocki and David Recordings Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Henry Charles Smith recorded the Serocki on his LP "Henry Charles Smith Plays Trombone,", Coronet Stereo 1410. I purchased it in 1971, I believe it was recorded around 1969. A wonderful album by one of the classiest role models to every hold a trombone. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:22:58 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 9:10 AM -0600 1/11/00, Adolphus Sprott wrote: >Let me clear up some confusion about the Texas All-State auditions. >I am a Texas all-state trombonist and I am quite familiar with the >way this works. I am familiar with Texas as well - I have a brother who lives there and has two daughters, both who play in their school bands (clarinet and horn - and in a fine program in a large city) and participate in the various Texas region, area and all-state auditions. From what I hear first hand from people I know who live and work in the school music scene there, the competition in Texas is FIERCE, not only on the solo level but on the band level as well. Competition can be a good thing, but it can also be a terrible, terrible thing for many young kids. I know of bands in Texas which practice NOTHING but 4 pieces for 6 months in order to attempt to place well at competitions. And there are some band directors who brutalize kids verbally and emotionally - win, win , win at all costs. Some band parent groups who make violent soccer moms and obnoxious little league dads look like Sunday School teachers. (Of course this is not ALWAYS the case, but I have seen it first hand many times - obviously there are many fine directors and parents who keep things in perspective.) The level of proficiency of some of these bands is truly amazing on a technical level - but only on 4 pieces. Emotionally, however, many of these groups have the outward appearance of "musicality" but in reality it was simply rote learning which was force fed. Marching band (don't worry, this is NOT a flame!) consumes a large amount of time as well. My point is that Texas does not have a corner on the market of turning out fine players because of their highly competitive all-state system. I don't think statistically you will find that Texas, despite its huge population, huge percentage of students who play in school bands and highly competitive school music environment, has a disproportionate (or even necessarily a proportionate) number of players who make it into the top ranks of the various musical scenes - certainly not in orchestral playing. That you DON'T see buckets of Texas trained players winning top orchestra auditions tells you something. I don't know WHAT it tells you, but it MIGHT tell you that there is something about that hyper-competitive school music environment in Texas that prepares students well to do certain things at auditions at a certain level but that there might be more than a few things missing at the fundamental level which don't get picked up again later on - when they should have been there from the beginning but got missed in the push to compete. Then again, maybe it tells you something else... (I know, I know, everything's bigger in Texas - even music - and this is NOT a flame on Texas). -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:33:20 -0700 (MST) From: David Hummer JILA To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: maintaince of Thayer valves Message-ID: <01JKKRYVQ2BMFODS4B@jila.colorado.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII In response to the claim that Thayer valves are high maintainance items, let me note that with my Edwards I oiled the valves about once every two months and it worked fine. I hardly ever cleaned it. With my new Shires, after a couple months of breaking it in and finding the right oil, I oil it about once a week. As I play at least 15 hours per week, I don't find this unreasonable. If people find that they need to oil and disassemble the Thayer frequently, they are probably using the wrong oil. David Hummer From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:39:08 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) Message-ID: <20000111183908.21505.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > WalkŸre, make believe you're making love to a very large woman wearing > > armour plating and a helmet with horns... Now, I'm a bit of a neophyte about making love to women wearing armor. Are you supposed to tender stroke the armor, or what? DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:38:07 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: yeo@yeodoug.com, Trombone-L Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What Doug wrote is true - there are some programs who focus solely on getting I's at music festival and placing kids in All-State ensembles. Once you lose focus on what's important, the "Win at Any Costs" mentality can easily take over. It takes a band director with the support of parents and administrations NOT to buy into that sort of nonsense. Just as there is the "publish or perish" mentalities entrenched in the academic world, there are administrations and parent groups with "Get a I at contest or we'll get a new director" mindsets. However, I grew up in Temple, Texas, and was very fortunate to have directors who chose NOT to be that type of organization. We valued success, but were taught that the MUSIC is what mattered, not the ratings. Now, the sectional rivalries were brutal. I had my instrument damaged several times by rivals, as well as the constant "You suck, you can't play, give it up" type of garbage that people use to intimidate others. However, I just kept practicing and listening to my teacher. As a side-bar - 18 years later, the three individuals who picked on me throughout high school are no longer playing . . . guess who one THAT battle? ;-) Chris >At 9:10 AM -0600 1/11/00, Adolphus Sprott wrote: > >>Let me clear up some confusion about the Texas All-State auditions. >>I am a Texas all-state trombonist and I am quite familiar with the >>way this works. > > >I am familiar with Texas as well - I have a brother who lives there >and has two daughters, both who play in their school bands (clarinet >and horn - and in a fine program in a large city) and participate in >the various Texas region, area and all-state auditions. > > From what I hear first hand from people I know who live and work in >the school music scene there, the competition in Texas is FIERCE, not >only on the solo level but on the band level as well. Competition >can be a good thing, but it can also be a terrible, terrible thing >for many young kids. I know of bands in Texas which practice NOTHING >but 4 pieces for 6 months in order to attempt to place well at >competitions. And there are some band directors who brutalize kids >verbally and emotionally - win, win , win at all costs. Some band >parent groups who make violent soccer moms and obnoxious little >league dads look like Sunday School teachers. (Of course this is not >ALWAYS the case, but I have seen it first hand many times - obviously >there are many fine directors and parents who keep things in >perspective.) The level of proficiency of some of these bands is >truly amazing on a technical level - but only on 4 pieces. >Emotionally, however, many of these groups have the outward >appearance of "musicality" but in reality it was simply rote learning >which was force fed. Marching band (don't worry, this is NOT a >flame!) consumes a large amount of time as well. > >My point is that Texas does not have a corner on the market of >turning out fine players because of their highly competitive >all-state system. I don't think statistically you will find that >Texas, despite its huge population, huge percentage of students who >play in school bands and highly competitive school music environment, >has a disproportionate (or even necessarily a proportionate) number >of players who make it into the top ranks of the various musical >scenes - certainly not in orchestral playing. That you DON'T see >buckets of Texas trained players winning top orchestra auditions >tells you something. I don't know WHAT it tells you, but it MIGHT >tell you that there is something about that hyper-competitive school >music environment in Texas that prepares students well to do certain >things at auditions at a certain level but that there might be more >than a few things missing at the fundamental level which don't get >picked up again later on - when they should have been there from the >beginning but got missed in the push to compete. > >Then again, maybe it tells you something else... (I know, I know, >everything's bigger in Texas - even music - and this is NOT a flame >on Texas). > > >-Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > _____________________________________________ Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at http://www.waageworks.com _____________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:08:27 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) Message-ID: <200001111908.NAA04990@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> ...and, in the event that you are playing the prelude to act III of Die >> WalkŸre, make believe you're making love to a very large woman wearing >> armour plating and a helmet with horns... > >Now that sounds like the Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner that >we all love. > >A. > >Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) I wouldn't touch this post with a ten foot pole :-) I'm on good terms with that divine Blonde Soprano and I intend to stay there. MC From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:23:21 -0500 From: "Stephen Hunt" To: Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Message-ID: <00b501bf5c69$53896d20$d4b9463f@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Yeo To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Appropriateness All-State Just a few thoughts on this particular thread: As for the issue of instrument appropriateness and horn sound, it should be pointed out that many high school students have probably not been shown the differences in the sounds of various types of trombone. For the most part they have been told (either by salespeople or directors most of the time) that the 88H and 42B are the horns that they should have and with those come the sound they should have. In my experience, a lesson shows many problems among young players to which the issue of what horn to play is subservient. Most high-school-age players have no idea that a smaller horn is more appropriate here. The perception that the 547 horn is right is simply too deeply grounded. My primary thought on all of this has to do with the goals of the process. The fundamental problem in most difficult decisions has to do with the issue of forgotten intent, and that seems to be the case here. What is the supreme goal of these sorts of All-State programs? They are called honors bands for a reason. They are meant to be and should be an honor for the students who are selected. For what should they be honored? This is the problem here. Ideally, the honor should be given for musical excellence in general, not on a specific piece or set of pieces. The audition process as it stands is an unfortunate necessary compromise. It is not possible to send judges to eavesdrop on each student's lessons, practices, and rehearsals. Instead, the judges attempt to see through the audition to see what the student has worked toward and accomplished. I don't profess to fully know the situation, but it seems as if the Texas association has programmed a concert, not an honor. These are not professional auditions. It is fine to mimic professional or college auditions as a basis for educational experience, but they should not hold the same goals. The program should be selected to laud the accomplishments of the students, and the TMEA (I think that is the organization) should gladly and proudly do so. Unfortunately, it seems as if the pieces have been selected to put on a concert and then the students are to be selected to best perform that concert. This is the sort of mentality one has when hiring a professional orchestra. If I were putting on a concert in the effort to raise money, I would select music best bring in an audience and then select the players to best perform that music. However, if I were putting on a concert to show off the accomplishments of my friends and classmates, I would with them select pieces that demonstrate what they've been working toward. This is the difference. It is important to remain true to the goals of the process. If I want to hear a great performance of the Symphony Fantastique in Texas, I will seek out a professional or semi-pro orchestra that is performing it. If I go to the Texas All-State concert, I want to go, here music well played by high school students who have worked hard to prepare themselves, and be proud of what they've done. I may still get that great performance, but that is not the reason for the concert. The students must be the focus, and that is the thing most often forgotten in today's school music programs. Stephen Hunt >At 9:10 AM -0600 1/11/00, Adolphus Sprott wrote: > >>Let me clear up some confusion about the Texas All-State auditions. >>I am a Texas all-state trombonist and I am quite familiar with the >>way this works. > > >I am familiar with Texas as well - I have a brother who lives there >and has two daughters, both who play in their school bands (clarinet >and horn - and in a fine program in a large city) and participate in >the various Texas region, area and all-state auditions. > > From what I hear first hand from people I know who live and work in >the school music scene there, the competition in Texas is FIERCE, not >only on the solo level but on the band level as well. Competition >can be a good thing, but it can also be a terrible, terrible thing >for many young kids. I know of bands in Texas which practice NOTHING >but 4 pieces for 6 months in order to attempt to place well at >competitions. And there are some band directors who brutalize kids >verbally and emotionally - win, win , win at all costs. Some band >parent groups who make violent soccer moms and obnoxious little >league dads look like Sunday School teachers. (Of course this is not >ALWAYS the case, but I have seen it first hand many times - obviously >there are many fine directors and parents who keep things in >perspective.) The level of proficiency of some of these bands is >truly amazing on a technical level - but only on 4 pieces. >Emotionally, however, many of these groups have the outward >appearance of "musicality" but in reality it was simply rote learning >which was force fed. Marching band (don't worry, this is NOT a >flame!) consumes a large amount of time as well. > >My point is that Texas does not have a corner on the market of >turning out fine players because of their highly competitive >all-state system. I don't think statistically you will find that >Texas, despite its huge population, huge percentage of students who >play in school bands and highly competitive school music environment, >has a disproportionate (or even necessarily a proportionate) number >of players who make it into the top ranks of the various musical >scenes - certainly not in orchestral playing. That you DON'T see >buckets of Texas trained players winning top orchestra auditions >tells you something. I don't know WHAT it tells you, but it MIGHT >tell you that there is something about that hyper-competitive school >music environment in Texas that prepares students well to do certain >things at auditions at a certain level but that there might be more >than a few things missing at the fundamental level which don't get >picked up again later on - when they should have been there from the >beginning but got missed in the push to compete. > >Then again, maybe it tells you something else... (I know, I know, >everything's bigger in Texas - even music - and this is NOT a flame >on Texas). > > >-Doug Yeo > > ********************************************** > * Douglas Yeo * > * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * > * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * > * yeo@yeodoug.com * > * http://www.yeodoug.com * > * <>< * > ********************************************** > > From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:33:21 -0800 From: "Mr. Maxwell @ Sequoia Middle School" To: basstbn@waageworks.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: A Screwball Observation Message-ID: <387B8581.36F796EC@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boy, does that sound like a new father with too many 2:00 am feedings under his eyelids. (:>)) Gary Maxwell (and I certainly hope this gets out correctly. I do not have the original statement from Chris showing on my screen.) From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:17 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:35:27 -0800 From: "Mr. Maxwell @ Sequoia Middle School" To: daniel_pliskin@hotmail.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) Message-ID: <387B85FF.84C12634@bcsd.k12.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You will most certainly "tender" something in the process, or become tender(ised). Gary Maxwell From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:50:30 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: A Screwball Observation Message-ID: <200001111950.NAA08564@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually, yes, I did know that. When I used to play bass trombone I used a newborn's pacifier which was modified by Greg Black. ;-) MC At 11:36 AM 1/11/00 , you wrote: >Did you know that a Schilke 60 is about the same width as a newborn's pacifier? > >;-) > >Chris >_____________________________________________ >Chris Waage basstbn@waageworks.com > Visit The Mouthpiece Exchange at > http://www.waageworks.com >_____________________________________________ > From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:01:02 -0600 From: LEICHSENRINM@wartburg.edu To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.edu Subject: Zellmer-Competition Message-ID: <000111140102.21448495@wartburg.edu> All this talk about auditions has made me curious, so I'm asking the opinion of the list on this one.... I'm making my tape for the Zellmer-Competition within the next few weeks and I've run into a problem in my decision making. Since I don't consider myself to be a virtuoso player I decided to turn to CD's for help on the Jongen piece, Aria et Polonaise. Lindberg and Alessi. Lindberg plays the Polonaise section incredibly fast(who would have thought) and Alessi's rendition is considerably slower. I've managed to learn to play it in both styles and there isn't a difference in quality either way. So my question would be, which version should I play? Fast and crazy, but still nice and clear or the slower more dynamically contrasting one? As for the rest of the audition list... Bolero is the only tough one, and it's not that tough..heh heh...then again. thanks Matt Leichsenring Wartburg College From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:43:54 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Appropriateness Message-ID: <001101bf5c74$b3f4f480$5e5efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF5C4A.AA720E40"
Folks,
    This thread has taken on several different directions, and I still believe that experience is the best teacher. As far as the high Eb in Fantastique, unless you have a really talented orchestra of youngsters, this is too difficult for even a good all-state high school orchestra to do well. I believe that we need to get back to good tone, good time, good rhythm, (which without good time, you cannot have good rhythm) and good intonation. There are PLENTY of pieces that will present enough of a challenge to a good all-state orchestra--the Rossini overtures, Russlan & Ludmilla, any Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert, or Mendelssohn you want, and if you want to get into the romantic stuff, how about the Brahms overtures? How about Die Meistersinger? What I fear is that the all-state band/orchestra has gotten to be too much COMPETITION ORIENTED & NOT ENOUGH EDUCATION ORIENTED. Why do I say this? Because it has gotten to be too much trouble to take extra time at district honor band & all-state band auditions to tell these students what they need to work on in order to become better musicians. The primary purpose is to fill a band. Yes, the cream will rise to the top, but I'm convinced that there are more potentially good players that would benefit if the adjudicators would give the scores back to the kids and also indicate what the kids need to work on in their playing.   
    As far as the large bore tenor trombone is concerned, I, for the most part, am not in favor of the idea of middle school students getting these instruments. It seems that the medium bore trombone has gone by the wayside, and I truly believe that it has a great function for this group of kids. High school students, by in large, are not as serious as they were about learning to play well as they were 20+ years ago, unless they are fortunate enough to get private lessons while in middle school. I didn't get a 42B until I was 16 years old, and I played on a student horn that made a Bundy sound like an Edwards-it was that bad. I learned how to get a good sound on it, and when I did purchase a 42B in 1977, it was almost like starting all over again because of the increased air need to fill the horn up. What I'm saying is that I was physically pretty much grown before I got the large bore instrument. Just like I told one of my 7th grade middle schoolers the other day---"Your parents have gone out and bought this beautiful 42BO, and it really is a man-sized instrument, and you've taken on a man sized job to learn to play it properly." Even though I play Edwards, I'm still a Bach fan because the horn is still well made and it will take a younger student on to professional playing if he so desires. I am so well aware about the average American family being financially strapped, and in the long run the large bore trombone is a better investment, but I seriously doubt if it is the best choice for the development of the student.          
Paul Kemp
Chattanooga Symphony
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:26:18 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Concrete guidelines/Win at all costs Message-ID: <007e01bf5c7a$80660b80$5e5efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007B_01BF5C50.96A50740"
    What Doug Yeo had to say about high school players playing excerpts is right on--however, what he had to say about concrete guidlelines is really a great question as well. Maybe it's too tough, but I don't think so. How about great sound, good time & rhythm, good intonation for starters? In my experience in listening to kids, these are the things that are really going to separate the bad from the good, and even the good from the great. More than likely, the average high school student is NOT going to have enough experience to add any interpretative insight unless he listens to the recordings of the pieces and gets with a really great teacher. Even then, just like Doug said, excerpts are a PROCESS. Example: William Tell. Yes, you can practice the storm scene excerpt until you are blue in the face, and be on time, in tune, and get all of the notes, even at the right tempo, and the right sound, but suppose you play this with a small orchestra? If you have a small string section, I can assure you that if you play the storm scene as loud as you probably practice it at home, you're going to get the palm from a sensitive conductor. One thing that I've learned about William Tell this week is that it is really more like Mozart---very, very transparent. For instance--if the strings set the rhythm up right for you, (provided that you have enough technique) you should be able to lock into what they've set up for you. Also, the timpanist is also laying down the time on every beat of the chromatic runs for you. You really don't know these things until you get the opportunity to play it IN THE ORCHESTRA.  This is also a good reason for something else that Doug advocates---score study. 
 
    This is just one example of the PROCESS of excerpts. There are others--the Rossini excerpts provide the best examples that I can think of right off the top of my head.
 
    Texas isn't the only win at all costs state--I see quite a bit of it in Georgia. I'll tell you right now--I'd MUCH rather have a student who DOESN"T win the honor band/allstate thing his first time out, as more than likely he will develop into a better musician if he/she doesn't quit. As a private teacher I am very concerned about students being correct in their playing---even if this correct takes longer to accomplish. Here's a challenge for you---have a student really go after the right sound for starters--get him away from higher, faster, louder. Have him stay focused on getting a great sound and putting the slide in the right place. In the current scheme, he probably won't win his first couple of auditions, but I can guarantee you that if ANY adjudicator worth his salt hears a kid with truly GREAT sound, that kid can miss a note here and there, even play a note out of tune here and there. If the OVERALL MUSICAL INTENT IS THERE, that kid will win over higher, faster louder. We've got to get back to the idea that we're training these young people to be the best musicians they can be---if that's not the idea, then we're in it for the wrong reason.
 
        
 
 
Paul Kemp
Chattanooga Symphony
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:26:24 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Auditions and preparation Message-ID: <200001112127.OAA153448@nestor.NMSU.Edu> > ... I decided to turn to CD's for help on the Jongen > piece, Aria et Polonaise. Lindberg and Alessi. Lindberg plays the Polonaise > section incredibly fast(who would have thought) and Alessi's rendition is > considerably slower. I've managed to learn to play it in both styles and there > isn't a difference in quality either way. So my question would be, which > version should I play? Fast and crazy, but still nice and clear or the > slower more dynamically contrasting one? I've stripped the name, because I want to focus on symptoms rather than individuals. Resorting to recordings in lieu of score study has become endemic. Publishers are unable to sell compositions unless they've been recorded, because directors won't buy anything they haven't heard. And I know many who won't buy anything unless they can study the recordings of others. I listen to the kids around NMSU, and I can tell who has listened to which recordings ... ah, he's been listening to Sandoval's Hummel ... she caught Lindberg's Creston Fantasy ... I admire Doug Yeo a lot, both as a musician and as a human being. When I was looking for a piece to do with our concert band, I consulted Doug. My first choice hasn't been rescored for concert band (yet), so I'm going to do the Lieb Concertino Basso. I don't know when yet, because Bill keeps rescheduling and shuffling the concert schedules. But the LAST thing I want to hear (until I've done it myself) is Doug's interpretation. I've written about the piece a little with Doug, and discussed it with Bill and some area trombonists, BUT I don't want to hear anyone else's version of it. I don't want to give our audience Dennis Clason's interpretation of Doug Yeo's interpretation of Richard Lieb's Concertino Basso. I feel I owe myself, the audience and Lieb more than that. I have to find the music in me -- MY interpretation of the Concertino Basso. BTW, composers: there is a real dearth of solo music for bass trombone and band. Believe it or not, the situation is really better for orchestra than it is for concert band. CB is an okay piece, but there's not the depth to it that there is to some other things -- even Goff Richard's Rainy Day in Rio (for B Trb and brass band). Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:16:06 -0500 (EST) From: Scott Ruedger To: Trombone List Subject: New York Phil on TV (USA) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For those interested, The New York Philharmonic will be televised on "Live from Lincoln Center" Wednesday night (1/12) on PBS stations in the US. The rep is: Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet (excerpts) Berg Violin Cto. Sibelius Violin Cto. Kurt Masur, conducting, Anne-Sophie Mutter, violin. The Prokofiev has some good passages for the trombones/brass section. Scott From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:27:22 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: New York Phil on TV (USA) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 5:16 PM -0500 1/11/00, Scott Ruedger wrote: > >The New York Philharmonic will be televised on "Live from Lincoln >Center" Wednesday night (1/12) on PBS stations in the US. > >The rep is: Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet (excerpts) > Berg Violin Cto. > Sibelius Violin Cto. > >Kurt Masur, conducting, Anne-Sophie Mutter, violin. > > >The Prokofiev has some good passages for the trombones/brass section. And the Berg Violin Concerto happens to be my favorite concerto in any genre, with spectacular parts for tenor and bass trombone, a Bach chorale in the finale, and some of the most painful, sublime, and heart-wrenching music ever composed. The BSO is playing it in a few weeks and for me it will be the highlight of the season (even more than the Britten War Requiem, Tchiak 6 and Mahler 7). -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:18 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:30:11 EST From: Servo149@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Serocki and David Recordings Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Might I suggest Ralph Sauer on the Serocki Sonatina. All I know is that the CD is on Crystal Records From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:19 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:35:00 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Concrete guidelines Message-ID: <002c01bf5c84$1cab73a0$565efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01BF5C5A.2F7B8760"
    What Doug Yeo had to say about high school players playing excerpts is right on--however, what he had to say about concrete guidlelines is really a great question as well. Maybe it's too tough, but I don't think so. How about great sound, good time & rhythm, good intonation for starters? In my experience in listening to kids, these are the things that are really going to separate the bad from the good, and even the good from the great. More than likely, the average high school student is NOT going to have enough experience to add any interpretative insight unless he listens to the recordings of the pieces and gets with a really great teacher. Even then, just like Doug said, excerpts are a PROCESS. Example: William Tell. Yes, you can practice the storm scene excerpt until you are blue in the face, and be on time, in tune, and get all of the notes, even at the right tempo, and the right sound, but suppose you play this with a small orchestra? If you have a small string section, I can assure you that if you play the storm scene as loud as you probably practice it at home, you're going to get the palm from a sensitive conductor. One thing that I've learned about William Tell this week is that it is really more like Mozart---very, very transparent. For instance--if the strings set the rhythm up right for you, (provided that you have enough technique) you should be able to lock into what they've set up for you. Also, the timpanist is also laying down the time on every beat of the chromatic runs for you. You really don't know these things until you get the opportunity to play it IN THE ORCHESTRA.  This is also a good reason for something else that Doug advocates---score study. 
 
    This is just one example of the PROCESS of excerpts. There are others--the Rossini excerpts provide the best examples that I can think of right off the top of my head.
 
    Texas isn't the only win at all costs state--I see quite a bit of it in Georgia. I'll tell you right now--I'd MUCH rather have a student who DOESN"T win the honor band/allstate thing his first time out, as more than likely he will develop into a better musician if he/she doesn't quit. As a private teacher I am very concerned about students being correct in their playing---even if this correct takes longer to accomplish. Here's a challenge for you---have a student really go after the right sound for starters--get him away from higher, faster, louder. Have him stay focused on getting a great sound and putting the slide in the right place. In the current scheme, he probably won't win his first couple of auditions, but I can guarantee you that if ANY adjudicator worth his salt hears a kid with truly GREAT sound, that kid can miss a note here and there, even play a note out of tune here and there. If the OVERALL MUSICAL INTENT IS THERE, that kid will win over higher, faster louder. We've got to get back to the idea that we're training these young people to be the best musicians they can be---if that's not the idea, then we're in it for the wrong reason.
 
        
 
 
Paul Kemp
Chattanooga Symphony
 
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:19 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:37:03 -0500 From: "Paul D. Kemp, Jr." To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Appropriateness Message-ID: <003901bf5c84$6f990140$565efc9e@volpaulbear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BF5C5A.79138E40"
Folks,
    This thread has taken on several different directions, and I still believe that experience is the best teacher. As far as the high Eb in Fantastique, unless you have a really talented orchestra of youngsters, this is too difficult for even a good all-state high school orchestra to do well. I believe that we need to get back to good tone, good time, good rhythm, (which without good time, you cannot have good rhythm) and good intonation. There are PLENTY of pieces that will present enough of a challenge to a good all-state orchestra--the Rossini overtures, Russlan & Ludmilla, any Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert, or Mendelssohn you want, and if you want to get into the romantic stuff, how about the Brahms overtures? How about Die Meistersinger? What I fear is that the all-state band/orchestra has gotten to be too much COMPETITION ORIENTED & NOT ENOUGH EDUCATION ORIENTED. Why do I say this? Because it has gotten to be too much trouble to take extra time at district honor band & all-state band auditions to tell these students what they need to work on in order to become better musicians. The primary purpose is to fill a band. Yes, the cream will rise to the top, but I'm convinced that there are more potentially good players that would benefit if the adjudicators would give the scores back to the kids and also indicate what the kids need to work on in their playing.   
    As far as the large bore tenor trombone is concerned, I, for the most part, am not in favor of the idea of middle school students getting these instruments. It seems that the medium bore trombone has gone by the wayside, and I truly believe that it has a great function for this group of kids. High school students, by in large, are not as serious as they were about learning to play well as they were 20+ years ago, unless they are fortunate enough to get private lessons while in middle school. I didn't get a 42B until I was 16 years old, and I played on a student horn that made a Bundy sound like an Edwards-it was that bad. I learned how to get a good sound on it, and when I did purchase a 42B in 1977, it was almost like starting all over again because of the increased air need to fill the horn up. What I'm saying is that I was physically pretty much grown before I got the large bore instrument. Just like I told one of my 7th grade middle schoolers the other day---"Your parents have gone out and bought this beautiful 42BO, and it really is a man-sized instrument, and you've taken on a man sized job to learn to play it properly." Even though I play Edwards, I'm still a Bach fan because the horn is still well made and it will take a younger student on to professional playing if he so desires. I am so well aware about the average American family being financially strapped, and in the long run the large bore trombone is a better investment, but I seriously doubt if it is the best choice for the development of the student.       
 
Paul Kemp
Chattanooga Symphony
 
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:19 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:39:21 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 10:52 AM -0500 1/11/00, Tbcwes@aol.com wrote: >Sarah Chang could express herself at a dangerously young >age because she was educated at a dangerously young age. I was not so I could >not. Sarah Chang is an interesting case in point. As a member of the Boston Symphony and Boston Pops, I've played for a boatload of "child prodigies" over the last 20 years. For many years when I first joined the orchestra, we ALWAYS had some 10 or 12 year soloist for opening night at pops. In recent years it happens less frequently (good thing, I think). The public's fascination with younger and younger children making their debuts with major orchestras is, to me, a troubling thing. Anyone who has heard one of these youngsters knows that they have prodigious talent. What is also evident with even a quick cock of your ear is that nearly all of these prodigies have devoted their energies to technique. I have never heard a 10 year old play the Sibelius Violin Concerto and probably never will. It's not because they don't have the technique - they just don't have the musical "soul" yet. Notes come out but there is no music making. When you hear the young players play, they play Weiniowski, or Sarasate, or some such technical piece of belly button lint. Sarah Chang's debut album was full of such pieces. Now, there's nothing wrong with a young player working on technique, but the problem is that the marketers who like to think they control our lives want you to think that because some 10 year old can move her fingers like Urbie Green playing "The Green Bee" that she is therefore a great artist. And of course that is nonsense. But the public falls for it every time. The younger, the better. I was incensed several years ago when EMI ran an ad for Sarah Chang's debut CD. The full page ad in Gramaphone featured those little photos that kids have taken in elementary school - you know, the one where you look like a dork against a blue background that your parents give to family at Christmas and you wish they would just disappear. The ad had a photo of a young girl and under her elementary school photo it said something like: Susie James, loves butterflies Another photo appeared next to it and it said: Johnny Abrahams, likes to play with his cat And another, photo: Melissa Portfeau, likes to do math problems. Then there was a photo of Sarah Chang, the same age, and her caption said something like: Sarah Chang, made debut with the Philadelphia Orchestra at age 10, played with Boston Pops and 587 other major orchestras, a critical sensation at age 11. I was furious. The implication in the ad was that somehow Sarah Chang is "BETTER" than Susie James and the others. Wrong, Madison Avenue. Sarah Chang was a terribly unbalanced young girl who had her childhood taken away from her against her will at age 2 when a violin was thrust in her hand by parents who were determined to make her a great artist. I would rather discuss butterfiles with Susie James than music with Sarah Chang at age 10. Wouldn't you?! But the marketing gurus think they can manipulate us, and the exploitation of children in music is a terrible thing. Dozens of these prodigies enter the work force every year, the younger the better - but I've been around the block long enough to see the damage done, and to see which artists never come back when they're 20 or 25 (most don't) and which ones do (very few). Now for story time... MiDori was a tragic case of the child prodigy gone awry. She debuted with great promise like so many young children. She played the Bernstein Serenade at Tanglewood with Bernstein conducting the BSO - she popped a string on her 3/4 size violin and without missing 2 beats, traded it for the concertmaster's full size Strad. A few minutes later, she broke a string on THAT fiddle and took the asst. concertmaster's violin. She made the front page of the NY Times the next day. What the Times didn't say was that the performance was dull and lifeless. She was no Isaac Stern. But she was a teenager. A few years later, MiDori came to Symphony Hall for opening night with the BSO, Ozawa conducting. By this time, the horror stories of her mother's tyrannical domination (there is usually a terrible parent or teacher behind most such prodigies) were legendary. I didn't play the concert but was interested to see MiDori make her entrance so I stood offstage (backstage). I wasn't disappointed. 8:10 came and MiDori was still in her dressing room. There was shouting and a lot of fiddle playing. Finally her door burst open and out flew MiDori - followed by mother shouting, "AGAIN!" at which command MiDori dutifully played a passage of the concerto. "AGAIN!" shouted mother, and the passage came out once more. Ozawa was watching this in amazement, and after a few seconds, got between mother and child and said, "We have concert, now!" and he pushed MiDori on stage. The poor girl dropped out of sight for a few years, utterly burned out. She is making a comeback (without mother) and who knows what the future holds for her - I wish her the best. But this scene is all too common. Yes, Sarah Chang was educated at a young age, but she paid a terrible price. And WHAT was she educated in? The balanced music education does not begin with a obscessive focus on technique - it is about the mystery of music as a way we can express ourselves. If we get the order wrong or emphasize the wrong thing at the wrong time, we run the risk of ruining a young talent who grows up thinking that technique and chops are all there are to life. There is also LIFE to experience as well. And as a parent, I think the implications of the loss of innocence in the name of "art" is a pretty heavy subject which we all ought to consider carefully the next time we see a 10 year old on national TV wowing us with his or her quick fingers. Too bad she never took the time to look at the butterflies. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:19 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:39:34 EST From: Servo149@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: The Pines of Rome Message-ID: <7a.7a6a5eb0.25ad0b26@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listers- I know this is a topic that has come up in the past, however, since it didn't concern me at the time I didn't pay any attention. Apparently there are problems with the publication with The Pines of Rome. Seeing as how I'm playing second 'bone in the Kansas All-State Orchestra, which is coincidentally playing the Respighi, I'd like to know some of the pitfalls of the publication. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much- Tate Addis From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:19 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:14:43 -0600 From: "Adolphus Sprott" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: all-state Message-ID: <006601bf5c89$b0f3b5e0$70e2490c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01BF5C57.5A9FDE80"
The few students that I am talking about who can play the note well are also very musically and technically advanced for their age.  We have been lucky enough to study with excellent teachers.  The students I am referring to are consistent students with members of the Houston and Dallas Symphonies, Houston Ballet, and Houston Grand Opera.  I have gotten excellent advice on the excerprts and have heard excellent recordings (I really love the one by Philly in 1985).  So, to say the least, we are not just players who can squeak out the note.  We realize that the e flat is actually least important part of the auditon.  What is most important is that we produce a good sound, play the right notes at the right time, and use the correct style. 
    It is definitely true that some schools are really cutthroat when it comes to competition.  I know some schools that have students rehearsing fifteen hours a week.  However, this is not the norm.  Overall, the kids are really good people and just want to be the best musicians possible.  Most of the time, the clinicians are told in advance which sections are the strongest, so the clinician chose Symphonie Fantastique knowing that she had a trombone section that can more than play the part. 
    As for the level of playing, the All-State groups do a very good job.  It is true that TMEA is putting on more of a concert rather than an honor ceremony, but I think that is what the students want.  Most ot the students at that level enjoy the challenge, and realize that they may never get to play a piece of that caliber for the rest of their lives.  What if I don't become a major symphony player?  I will never get to play a piece like Symphonie Fantastique.  Obviously, we don't play as well as a professional orchestra, but the all-state group has played several major works at a highly proficient level.  The actual auditions are brutal, but I think it is a good experience for the students because many of them plan to become professional musicians and they will have to do it one in the future anyway. 
 
Weston Sprott
 
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:20 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:35:25 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Trombone teacher in Charlotte, NC? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I received a query from a trombonist in Charlotte, NC who is looking for a trombone teacher - he is 28 years old, plays bass trombone, looking for help to move to the next level of playing. If you know of anyone who might be able to help him, please respond DIRECTLY TO HIM (not to me!): Mandel Harvey mandelh@hotmail.com Thanks very much. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:20 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:34:15 -0800 From: Dan Aldag To: trombone-l Subject: Re: Auditions and preparation Message-ID: <387BBDC0.210A@axe.humboldt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis Clason wrote: > Resorting to recordings in lieu of score study has become endemic. Publishers > are unable to sell compositions unless they've been recorded, because directors > won't buy anything they haven't heard. And I know many who won't buy anything > unless they can study the recordings of others. > > I listen to the kids around NMSU, and I can tell who has listened to which > recordings ... ah, he's been listening to Sandoval's Hummel ... she caught > Lindberg's Creston Fantasy ... (snip) > I don't want to give our audience Dennis Clason's interpretation of Doug Yeo's > interpretation of Richard Lieb's Concertino Basso. I feel I owe myself, the > audience and Lieb more than that. I have to find the music in me -- MY > interpretation of the Concertino Basso. Dennis, I hear what you're saying. And...If we're talking about students, I gotta respectfully disagree. For me, it's like trying to learn a foreign language by sitting in a classroom three times a week. You'll pick up vocabulary, grammar--all the technical stuff--but your accent will be all off, you won't know any slang, idioms, colloquialisms--how people really speak that language. The vast majority of students I know haven't grown up listening to classical music (or even playing it--do you hear what some of these jnr high and high school groups play?), so they really don't know the language. (The situation's a little bit better in jazz, but not always by much.) If they want to learn to communicate in that language, they have to start off by imitating others, the same way we all learn to speak our respective languages. I do think it's very important that they listen to as many different interpretations as possible, so they learn what's possible in the realm of interpretation, and that there's not just one way to interpret something. That can help solve the problem you described, where you hear students do impressions of Lindberg's Creston Fantasy. [Although, frankly, I'd be thrilled if _I_ could sound just like Lindberg on the Creston, let alone one of my students.:)] Now, as for you and the Lieb, I agree with you there. You've got the background and the life experience (also quite relevant to this discussion, but that'll have to wait for another time) to play your own convincing interpretation of it, so I agree with your decision to stay away from Doug's recording while you're preparing it. -- Dan Aldag, Visiting Assistant Professor Dept. of Music, Humboldt State University From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:20 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:50:24 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: "Adolphus Sprott" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: all-state Message-ID: <001c01bf5c8e$a7ddb6e0$85b694d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF5C4B.92EBE920"
"Most ot the students at that level enjoy the challenge, and realize that they may never get to play a piece of that caliber for the rest of their lives.  What if I don't become a major symphony player?  I will never get to play a piece like Symphonie Fantastique. "
 
Don't believe this.  It's not true.  There are any number of amateur and semi-professional orchestras around and many play very well.  More importantly, their members love to play music.  How many other high school musicians are convinced that the only goal is to become "major symphony players"?  What are their teachers [and teachers] teaching these kids about music and about life?  If you can't cut Texas All State Junior High Honour Band, does that mean you're washed up at 14? 
 
Rod Ellard
 
Don't believe this.
 From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:20 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:11:13 -0800 From: "Les Benedict" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: transcription project Message-ID: <00f401bf5c91$8bd88760$3bcfb3d1@s8y2d3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Clason > > Who owns the print copyright to an improvised solo? > > Probably nobody, unless it has already been transcribed and published. But I > may be wrong. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) This question has appeared before, and I am investigating it but don't have a complete answer yet. I spoke with a friend who has self-published three books of transcribed solos. He told me that the soloist/improviser is the "composer" of the "song" that he played. Any transcription of that solo which is distributed for profit must be licensed by the soloist, and appropriate royalties must be negotiated and paid. However, he doesn't know about "free" distribution of transcribed solos, so I'm attempting to get in touch with a friend who is a patent attorney and knows a lot about copyrights as well. Update on the way... Les Benedict lesbenedict@earthlink.net http://expage.com/page/goldrushband From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:20 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:35:19 -0500 From: "Chuck De Paolo" To: Subject: Re: transcription project/copyright ownership Message-ID: <01d701bf5c94$e7840f50$0200a8c0@ws2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Who owns the print copyright to an improvised solo? > > > > Probably nobody, unless it has already been transcribed and published. But > > I may be wrong. A basic tenant of copyright law is ownership of an expressed idea. An idea itself is not copyrightable, but the expression of that idea is. Thus, a improvised solo, being the expression of a musical idea, is technically copyrighted as it comes out of the horn. Anyone who writes it down or makes a recording without permission of the creator or owner is in violation of copyright. Until the owner assigns it or sells it, it is his or hers to do with as they please. And, as a provision of the Berne Convention signed into US law by Ronald Reagan in the late 1980's, a copyright symbol does not need to appear on the printed or recorded work in order for copyright protection to apply. Beware those of you who would embark on a large scale transcription project. Try to gain clearance for those works you wish to include. It's fairly easy to do, and may save some grief down the road. If the project is "legit" as such, it won't have to remain underground, and can be of use to a wider audience. In Music, ---Chuck Owner, Ensemble Publications P.O. Box 32 Ithaca, NY 14851-0032 http://members.aol.com/EnsPub EnsPub@aol.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 12 07:53:20 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:39:28 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) Message-ID: <00a901bf5c95$7e38d700$2e1a0f3f@default> Doug, Way to go. That needed to be said, and needs to be said more often!!! It is time that we let kids be kids again. In fact, sometimes it helps for us to be kids again too. I'm 38 years old and I just purchased a Pikachu blanket for myself, and I'm not one darn bit ashamed of it!! Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Yeo To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Sarah Chang (was: Appropriateness All-State) >At 10:52 AM -0500 1/11/00, Tbcwes@aol.com wrote: > >>Sarah Chang could express herself at a dangerously young >>age because she was educated at a dangerously young age. I was not so I could >>not. > > >Sarah Chang is an interesting case in point. > >As a member of the Boston Symphony and Boston Pops, I've played for a >boatload of "child prodigies" over the last 20 years. For many years >when I first joined the orchestra, we ALWAYS had some 10 or 12 year >soloist for opening night at pops. In recent years it happens less >frequently (good thing, I think). > >The public's fascination with younger and younger children making >their debuts with major orchestras is, to me, a troubling thing. > >Anyone who has heard one of these youngsters knows that they have >prodigious talent. What is also evident with even a quick cock of >your ear is that nearly all of these prodigies have devoted their >energies to technique. I have never heard a 10 year old play the >Sibelius Violin Concerto and probably never will. It's not because >they don't have the technique - they just don't have the musical >"soul" yet. Notes come out but there is no music making. When you >hear the young players play, they play Weiniowski, or Sarasate, or >some such technical piece of belly button lint. Sarah Chang's debut >album was full of such pieces. > >Now, there's nothing wrong with a young player working on technique, >but the problem is that the marketers who like to think they control >our lives want you to think that because some 10 year old can move >her fingers like Urbie Green playing "The Green Bee" that she is >therefore a great artist. And of course that is nonsense. But the >public falls for it every time. The younger, the better. > >I was incensed several years ago when EMI ran an ad for Sarah Chang's >debut CD. The full page ad in Gramaphone featured those little >photos that kids have taken in elementary school - you know, the one >where you look like a dork against a blue background that your >parents give to family at Christmas and you wish they would just >disappear. The ad had a photo of a young girl and under her >elementary school photo it said something like: > >Susie James, loves butterflies > >Another photo appeared next to it and it said: > >Johnny Abrahams, likes to play with his cat > >And another, photo: > >Melissa Portfeau, likes to do math problems. > >Then there was a photo of Sarah Chang, the same age, and her caption >said something like: > >Sarah Chang, made debut with the Philadelphia Orchestra at age 10, >played with Boston Pops and 587 other major orchestras, a critical >sensation at age 11. > >I was furious. The implication in the ad was that somehow Sarah >Chang is "BETTER" than Susie James and the others. Wrong, Madison >Avenue. Sarah Chang was a terribly unbalanced young girl who had her >childhood taken away from her against her will at age 2 when a v