TROMBONE-L Digest 1566 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: 21 Trombones albums by "Tom Izzo" 2) Re: Audition Question by Glum26@aol.com 3) Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) by "Dick Sleeman" 4) Was the soloist Glenn Miller? by "Tom C. Shaddox" 5) Great teacher: was, why play the trombone? by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 6) Re: plunger players-contemporary by Paul Riley 7) 1000 words on why I play the trombone by "Tom C. Shaddox" 8) RE: Valve Trombones- why small bore?!? by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 9) Re: Why Play Trombone by NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 10) Practicing High Stuff by MBennetts@aol.com 11) Re: transcription project by Larry & Carol Bronisz 12) Re: transcription project by "Joe L. Norcross" 13) Re: Don Ellis clarified by Dennis Clason 14) OTJ Classifieds Update by Chris Waage 15) Re: Why Play Trombone by Dennis Clason 16) Re: transcription project by Dennis Clason 17) Re: plunger players-contemporary by "Rodney Ellard" 18) Baron/plunger by Charles 19) Brass Quintet Music by TBQ Press 20) Re: Quentin Jackson (opening a pretty big can of worms) by Dan Aldag 21) transcriptions & Les Benedict by Mike Coyle 22) A vintage program by "Joe L. Norcross" 23) ProkofievCD by "b.v.dijk" 24) All-State Audition Lists by c568667@showme.missouri.edu 25) Info needed, Please help by "Terry Timberlake" 26) Re: transcription project by Ralph L Holloway 27) by "b.v.dijk" 28) Re: plunger players-contemporary by Joao Leao 29) Re: Why Play Trombone by "Adrian Drover" 30) Another Slide Question by Brett Wilson 31) transcription requests by Mike Coyle 32) FW: volume control by richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL 33) RE: Practicing High Stuff by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 34) appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Dan Aldag 35) Re: Practicing High Stuff by MBennetts@aol.com 36) RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> 37) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Beth Lewis 38) I knew jazz was good for something :-) by Angie Brunk 39) Re: Another Slide Question by Emil Orth 40) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by BassBonist@aol.com 41) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Dennis Clason 42) Re: Another Slide Question by James Scott 43) Re: plunger players-contemporary by "Rodney Ellard" 44) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Neobopr@aol.com 45) Re: volume control by Neobopr@aol.com 46) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Beth Lewis 47) Greg Black mouthpieces by Mike Coyle 48) Re: Practicing High Stuff by AlRobnett@aol.com 49) Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Mike Coyle 50) transcriptions by AlRobnett@aol.com 51) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Budshcneider@aol.com 52) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Earl Needham 53) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Earl Needham 54) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by j.grisham@pmail.net (Josh Grisham) 55) Re: Greg Black mouthpieces by BarryMcCom@aol.com 56) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by Harpbonefran@aol.com 57) Philly bones by "David Pozos" 58) Re: transcription requests by Larry & Carol Bronisz 59) Re: Philly bones by BassBonist@aol.com 60) Doubling and different size mouthpieces by TRBNTERRY@webtv.net (TRBNTERRY) 61) Practicing High Stuff by Yoda505@aol.com 62) Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) by "Ellard" 63) blueprint by "Eric" 64) Trombone Studies by "Eric" 65) Re: Urbie and Bach by "Dick Sleeman" 66) Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces by Anders Carlsson From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:51:01 -0600 From: "Tom Izzo" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: 21 Trombones albums Message-ID: <000b01bf5b71$bbbfbb40$5275dfd0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > To futher "muddy" the water. Both Volumes were re-released before the CD-versions, on Quadraphonic Pre-recorded Reel to Reel. (Anyone remember Quadraphonic, besides me?) Yes I've got them in this format. Both released in 1973 under catalogue numbers: PR4C 5014 (Volume 1) PR4C 5024 (Volume 2) Tom From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:14:05 EST From: Glum26@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Audition Question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I don't think he is talking about a professional audition. He is talking about the Texas High School All-State Auditions because I have the same music. I played the Berlioz this summer and I had to play it with alto clef, but it was still the high Eb. I'm sure that will weed out most of the top players though. By the way, any tips from you professional musicians on how you think the excerpt should be played. I'm mainly talking about the one in the 4th movement, but we also have to play the end of the last movement so if you have any thoughts on that it would be great too. Thanks alot, -John ------------------------------------------------- John Vera Brevard Music Center Principal: Greater Dallas Philharmonic Youth Orchestra 5th Chair All-State Jazz Band Texas All-State Band/Orchestra -------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:14:56 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) Message-ID: <004001bf5b75$36c45140$047dadc1@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Adrian wrote: > > BTW, who makes alto flugels in Eb? I've never seen one, but have always > considered that brass bands should have these to bridge the gap between > the > Bb flugel and Euph. > I own one! It looks like a normal flŸgelhorn with an extra winding of course. There is a label on it that says: K&H, KŸhnl. Never heard of - maybe someone out there can enlighten me as to the maker of the horn. Luckily the mouthpiece receiver allows a trombone mouthpiece so I use it with a small one, but it is not very much in tune (with the mouthpiece that came with it, neither). But it produces a nice warm sound, like an alto horn. BTW, brassbands fill the gap between the Bb flŸgel and the euphonium with the alto horn (in England called tenor horn for some unknown reason)! Groeten, Dick. d.sleeman@hccnet.nl From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:17:31 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Was the soloist Glenn Miller? Message-ID: <3879E9FB.F0F7498F@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my recording library I have a cassette of the Glenn Miller Orchestra - one of those things you pick up at a truck stop for 2 dollars. No credits, no liner notes. They play "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" in the Miller style. There's a short trombone solo, and the player really lays it down. The solo is quieter than the rest of the recording, like the trombonist is away from the mikes. Was the soloist Miller? Thanks! Tom Shaddox 9th chair tenor ljshaddo@gte.net From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:48:41 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , "'ddsbstrb@cfanet.com'" Subject: Great teacher: was, why play the trombone? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Denver Seifried wrote, > While a freshman tuba student at Bowling Green State Univ (1960), I was > lucky to study tuba with a great trombone teacher at the university by the > name of David Glasmire. > How nice to see David Glasmire's name on the list! He was my first teacher, too. I started studying with him when I was a senior in high school and continued until I graduated from BGSU (1971). Not all of us have had the chance to study with people like Remington or Beversdorf--whose names everyone knows. It might be nice to pay tribute to some of the lesser known heros (and heroines) who have personally inspired so many of us. After I left BG, I studied with John Hill, Frank Crisafulli, and Audrey Morrison. Crisafulli is the best known and certainly deserves his reputation. The others are all marvelous, too (or were--I think Audrey is the only one still active as a teacher). ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:53:48 -0500 From: Paul Riley To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: plunger players-contemporary Message-ID: <3879F27B.4FC33C31@greenlinnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Art Baron uses a Tom Crown with electrical tape holding the corks on. That's with a Bach 16 and a Bach 6 1/2 AL. Last year he posted a "masterclass" on plunger playing on the OTJ. Check it out. Paul L. Riley paul@greenlinnet.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:56:12 -0600 From: "Tom C. Shaddox" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: 1000 words on why I play the trombone Message-ID: <3879F30C.C10E2F4D@fnc.fujitsu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.plano.net/band/scrapbook/winter_concert_98/ Click on the picture "12.JPG" BTW, I'm NOT hansome young man sitting 9th chair the evening this picture was taken. I'm the one with the 10H. I like "26.JPG" too. Both of those cats are in their late 70's! Tom Shaddox, 9th chair tenor ljshaddo@gte.net From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:24:04 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "'stevenb@istar.ca'" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Valve Trombones- why small bore?!? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve, I can't speak for all valve trombones, but the King 3B does NOT have trumpet valve casings. They are much larger. They are, however smaller than some euponiums that I have played. From what I remember of the Amati, its valves were also quite different than what they were putting on their trumpets. I think that the real reason that valve trombones are small bore is that they are used primarily for Jazz, where the peashooter still reigns supreme. If the big bore valved instrument sound was wanted, they would use a euphonium. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Butterworth [SMTP:stevenb@istar.ca] > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 2:15 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Valve Trombones- why small bore?!? > > Hello All, > > I think I have an insight as to why most of the manufacturers make 0.500" > bore valve trombones. > > Most manufacturers use a trumpet valve casing assembly(0.459-0.463") to > make these as the angle the slide tubes exit the casing is the correct one > for the instrument. It would be too complicated to use a baritone or > euphonium casing and way too cost prohibitive to make a special casing for > valve trombones. There is enough room in the trumpet casing and valves to > bore them out to fit a 0.500" bore. > > I could be wrong. > > Steve Butterworth > Stevenb@istar.ca > Toronto, Ontario From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:36:34 EST From: NHSGrizzly16@aol.com To: kreigh@fwi.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <85.8575aac6.25ab5682@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ohhh.......our high school symphonic is playing that. also, we're playing that Sailors and Whales song......i forget the exact title. has anyone played it? From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:25:40 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/09/2000 5:38:40 PM Central Standard Time, j.grisham@pmail.net writes: > In measure 122, there is part > of a lick written, and it says it is to be played 8va, which would make the > top note a double Eb. I always play the note (plus a few more) in my warm > up, but I don't think that I would be able to play it whenever I was asked > to, at anytime. Like Mr. Grisham I am unable to simply play the higher notes in my warmup range "on demand". Assuming I am properly warmed up, I can produce any note up through the sixth partial "on demand" and with no musical context. (e.g., if I hurried in late after rehearsal break, and missed even hearing a tuning note, I could pick up the instrument and correctly play the first note of the piece, presuming it's no higher than sixth partial F). But to play a note higher than that, I simply must be able to mentally "hear" the note before I play it, based on its interval from the previous note I've played (or in a pinch, based on its interval from a note I can hear somebody else playing, if I know what note that person is playing). Using my accustomed multiple choice format, I ask you all for insight into solutions for this: 1. Practice, practice, practice. 2. Practice, practice, practice, taking care to include _________________________ in your practice. 3. What? Are you crazy? 7th partial and up will never be as easy as 6th partial and down. You just have to tame them as best you can, using choice 1. or 2. as your approach. 4. Other ______________. Mike Bennett Amateur always looking to get better From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:34:40 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: astro@pconline.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: transcription project Message-ID: <4.1.20000110092946.00bcd970@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think transcriptions are quite desireable! Most of us have limited time to spend transcribing solos; we usually spend available time practicing. I always enjoy Teagarden material, and I think we all like to play the solos of all of the great players. - Larry At 11:42 PM 1/9/00 -0600, Mike Coyle wrote: >Many years ago I had a stack of transcriptions that I had done of great >trombone solos from early Teagarden to late Fontana. > >I lost them in a move I made from Philadelphia to New York (along with some >other music, a plate reverb box and a great food processor! -- oh well, >c'est la move!) > >I am thinking of doing some of that work again and making it available to >others - thanks to the ease of desk top publishing. Do you guys think >there is much interest out there? (not asking if there is money in it, >there isn't, just wanna know if there is an interest). > > >Thanks, > >Mike From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:06:25 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: transcription project Message-ID: <05b501bf5b84$a9369300$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am sure there is interest, but get permission from the copyright holder first or you could be in big trouble ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net -----Original Message----- From: Mike Coyle To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 9:44 PM Subject: transcription project >Hiya folks, > >Many years ago I had a stack of transcriptions that I had done of great >trombone solos from early Teagarden to late Fontana. > >I lost them in a move I made from Philadelphia to New York (along with some >other music, a plate reverb box and a great food processor! -- oh well, >c'est la move!) > >I am thinking of doing some of that work again and making it available to >others - thanks to the ease of desk top publishing. Do you guys think >there is much interest out there? (not asking if there is money in it, >there isn't, just wanna know if there is an interest). > > >Thanks, > >Mike > From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:57:32 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Don Ellis clarified Message-ID: <200001101658.JAA200622@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: gdmaxwell@lightspeed.net trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from Gary Maxwell 01/08/00 09:17am -0800 > Sorry folks. The Don Ellis reference was merely a feeble attempt at a > comeback to Adrian on his post about Glen Miller. "Is he back?" I would be > more than happy if a remake of the D. E. band was done by someone. In fact > I've been looking for my "Fillmore" album all morning. Can't wait to rehear > the flushing toilet and sirens and nearly impossible to comprehend time > signatures. Ellis used time signatures? I thought he just dropped barlines in every now and again ... Actually, with some of his numbers (Bulgarian Bulge is the only one that comes to mind immediately, but I know there are others) a bar is a phrase is a bar ... kind of a neat cure for players who insist on breathing at the bar lines. And I second the motion that somebody resurrect the Ellis library. But I don't think it will happen, because WHICH orchestra to resurrect? Don changed his instrumentation more often than his shirt... Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:54 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:58:57 -0600 From: Chris Waage To: Trombone-L , brass@quartz.gly.fsu.edu Subject: OTJ Classifieds Update Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Online Trombone Journal Classifieds (http://www.trombone.org/classifieds) have been updated as of 11:00 a.m. CST on January 10, 2000 with a large number of new listings. OTJ Instrument Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp OTJ Accessory Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/accessories.asp OTJ Music Classifieds http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/music.asp To place an ad: http://www.trombone.org/classifieds/adform.asp If you have any questions or comments about the Online Trombone Journal Classifieds, please contact me at chris@trombone.org. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Waage chris@trombone.org Associate Webmaster The Online Trombone Journal http://www.trombone.org From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:07:18 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <200001101708.KAA65430@nestor.NMSU.Edu> ** Reply to note from NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 01/10/00 10:36am EST > ohhh.......our high school symphonic is playing that. also, we're playing > that Sailors and Whales song......i forget the exact title. has anyone > played it? Of Sailors and Whales, composed by Francis MacBeth. MacBeth was a student of Howard Hanson at Eastman, and is recently retired from the music department at Ouachita Baptist University in Arkansas. Of Sailors and Whales is based on characterizations from Melville's Moby Dick. This piece has the capacity to move audiences in a way that few modern works (and it IS a modern work) do. If you haven't read Moby Dick, you should read it in conjunction with working on Of Sailors and Whales. If you don't read the whole book, at least read the relevant excerpts (especially the sermon). Enjoy it -- this is one of the great symphonic band works. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:07:18 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: transcription project Message-ID: <200001101708.KAA65432@nestor.NMSU.Edu> ** Reply to note from Joe L. Norcross 01/10/00 08:06am -0800 > I am sure there is interest, but get permission from the copyright holder > first or you could be in big trouble Who owns the print copyright to an improvised solo? Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:06:52 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: plunger players-contemporary Message-ID: <000601bf5b8d$1a064c80$42b694d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's some great plunger work on Ray Anderson's Big Band Record, especially the cut "Nine Lizards" on which all three tenors (Anderson and Baron are two) play plunger solos. Not exactly Sam Nanton-style, mind you. Also, I took a quick look at Ray's setup a couple of years ago. It appeared to me that he was using a trumpet straight mute as well. Rod Ellard From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:40:02 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Baron/plunger Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000110164002.0069f77c@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Art also plays plunger jazz on a euph using a garbage can lid! From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:50:55 -0500 From: TBQ Press To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Brass Quintet Music Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000110125055.00805700@pop.freenet.tlh.fl.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" TBQ Press has brass quintet arrangements of the music of Albinoni, Bach, Bartok, Berlioz, Brahms, Byrd, Campra, Debussy, Dukas, Dvorak, Elgar, Faure, Franck, Frescobaldi, Gluck, Grainger, Handel, Haydn, Holst, Ives, Joplin, Mendelssohn, Mozart, Pachelbel, Praetorius, Prokofiev, Puccini, Reger, Rossini, Schiffman, Schumann, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Vaughan Williams, Verdi, Wagner, Walton, and Vincent Youmans, plus blues and jazz. Send e-mail to tbqt@freenet.tlh.fl.us for an e-mailed listing. (If you received our list in the past, no need replying. You are on our mailing list) **************** TBQ Press tbqt@freenet.tlh.fl.us From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:55:58 -0800 From: Dan Aldag To: trombone-l Subject: Re: Quentin Jackson (opening a pretty big can of worms) Message-ID: <387A1D96.5E4F@axe.humboldt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To James and other plungers: Chris's post was great. I'll just add a couple of things. Christopher Smith wrote: (snip) > 5) Practice singing along with recordings of plunger virtuosos like Nanton, > Jackson, Tyree Glenn, Turre, Gordon, etc. > Really. > Try to get as close an approximation of their trombone sounds with your > voice. When you are getting close, go to the horn, pick up the plunger, and > try to form your mouth and tongue movements in exactly the same way ***as > you are playing the trombone***. > Some guys use a "wah-wah" sound. Others (Nanton, especially) combine this > with an alternate "yah-yah" sound which REALLY gives a vocal quality. The "wah" sound is a combination of two vowel sounds, "oo-ah". Say them fast and run them together, and you'll start to get the idea. The "yah" sound is a combination of "ee" and "ah". These and other vowel sounds, alone and in combination, are a MAJOR part of plunger playing, and a MAJOR difference between "plunger" and "standard" tone qualities. Most all of us (whether we were aware of it or not) have spent years striving to get a consistent vowel sound throughout most of our range. When doing Nanton-style plunger playing, we have to strive for several different vowel sounds, some of them very different from our "normal" way of playing. An important thing about using one of the little mutes in combo with the plunger. All of them will mess with your intonation, and probably a lot. Most guys pull their tuning slides out, but I've read that Nanton lipped everything into tune on all those amazing solos he played. An important part of the basic plunger timbre is that you really have to BLOW. Check it out by putting your little mute in, put the plunger over it, and then play mf and then ff. I'm sure you'll hear the timbral difference. Remember, when Nanton first started doing this, they didn't use mics to amplify soloists, so he had to be heard over the entire Ellington band with his bell stopped up by two mutes. There's a great story that illustrates just how hard Nanton blew. Supposedly, Nanton was up in front of the band one night playing a solo, and he blew so hard that his tuning slide came flying off the back of his horn. The band busts up, Nanton's frantically crawling around the stage trying to find his tuning slide, and the audience is laughing and applauding cuz they think it's all a part of the show! You might find Al Grey's book "Plunger Techniques" helpful. Al is the plunger-playing legend from the Basie band, and the book comes with a cassette tape of Al demonstrating many of the things in the book. The book is published by Second Floor Music, which is distributed by Hal Leonard, so if your local music store doesn't have it in stock, they should be able to order for you real easy. I think it's also available on Jamey Aebersold's website. Finally, there may be some who disagree with me, but I don't think your job is to recreate the exact sound of Butter's solo when you're playing that transcription of "The Mooche." For one thing, you're not going to be able to, in a few weeks time, learn to sound just like Jackson, who spent years developing his sound. From your post, it sounds like you've already discovered this. More importantly, you should strive to sound like YOU. That's most in keeping with the spirit of Ellington, and all great music. Ellington had lots of great plunger specialists in his band--Nanton, Jackson, Tyree Glenn, Britt Woodman, Art Baron, even Lawrence Brown played the plunger stuff in the '60s. They all sounded different. Sure, there are common elements in the basic style, but each of those guys put their own personalities into their playing. You should, too. Listen to all the recordings of the Ellington band that you can put your hands on, to learn the basic style, and then make that solo your own! Good luck! Dan -- Dan Aldag, Visiting Assistant Professor Dept. of Music, Humboldt State University From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 12:02:11 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: transcriptions & Les Benedict Message-ID: <200001101802.MAA03597@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry to bother the whole list with this, but, I have been told that Les Benedict is a member of the list. If so I'd really like to talk to him about the legal implications of publishing transcribed solos. If you know his email address please forward it to me - or, if you are seeing this yourself, Mr Benedict, please write to me. Thanks, Mike Coyle From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:39:20 -0800 From: "Joe L. Norcross" To: "Trombone" Subject: A vintage program Message-ID: <066101bf5b91$a419c100$04000005@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the Disney Channel last night caught an old Walt Disney Presents, called Disneyland After Dark. One segment on the Mark Twain featured a Dixie Band. Guest artist was Louie and two of the players were Johnny StCyr and Kid Ory, three fifth of the old Hot Five. They played Muskrat Ramble and it was wonderful to see kid Ory come alive on his most famous composition. Kid was one of the greatest jazzers of them all If it comes around, don't miss it ______________________________________ Joe L. Norcross Tuba, Sequoia Winds, Visalia British Brass Band Tuba and Announcer, Kingsburg City Band joetuba@lightspeed.net From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:14:56 +0100 From: "b.v.dijk" To: Subject: ProkofievCD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friends, First of all I like to wish you all the best for this new Millennium. I like to ask your attention for the first CD of the Rotterdam Philharmonic Brass with new arrangements of music from Prokofiev for Brass. You can find information about the CD on my site. The address is: http:people.a2000.nl/dijkbvan On my site you can also find the text of my contra- bas presentation I did 2 years ago in the states. Greetings, Ben van Dijk From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 13:25:01 -0600 (CST) From: c568667@showme.missouri.edu To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: All-State Audition Lists Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am doing a pedagogy project surveying what all 50 states use as the all-state band audition list. If any of you out there could tell me who I may contact for this information I would greatly appreciate it. You can reply to me privately. Thank you, Seth Merenbloom University of Missouri c568667@showme.missouri.edu From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:29:09 GMT From: "Terry Timberlake" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Info needed, Please help Message-ID: <20000110192909.40551.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am an amateur repairman and have come across a difficulty. Does anyone know the e-mail address of the head production technician at UMI, preferably Conn. I'm currently working on an old 6H and it would greatly help if I could get my hands on the blueprints, if possible. Does anyone have any useful info, or a helpful opinion? Any help is greatly appreciated. Terry Timberlake Temple Jazz Orchestra timber2@vvm.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:31:16 -0500 (EST) From: Ralph L Holloway To: Mike Coyle Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: transcription project Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 9 Jan 2000, Mike Coyle wrote: Mike! Speaking for myself, hurrt it up! Hpw can I help? > Hiya folks, > > Many years ago I had a stack of transcriptions that I had done of great > trombone solos from early Teagarden to late Fontana. > > I lost them in a move I made from Philadelphia to New York (along with some > other music, a plate reverb box and a great food processor! -- oh well, > c'est la move!) > > I am thinking of doing some of that work again and making it available to > others - thanks to the ease of desk top publishing. Do you guys think > there is much interest out there? (not asking if there is money in it, > there isn't, just wanna know if there is an interest). > > > Thanks, > > Mike > Ralph L. Holloway Dept. Anthropology Columbia University NY, NY 10027 212-854-4570 Fax= 212-854-7347 From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:32:58 +0100 From: "b.v.dijk" To: "trblists" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daer Friends, Sorry for the wrong site address in my earlier Prokofiev message and thanks Doug for your quick reply. By the way, great to hear from you. The correct address is: http://people.a2000.nl/dijkbvan Greeting Ben van Dijk bass trombone Rotterdam Philharmonic From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:37:37 -0500 From: Joao Leao To: ellard@sprint.ca Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." , leao@gog.harvard.edu Subject: Re: plunger players-contemporary Message-ID: <200001101937.OAA64155@gog.harvard.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Because I have not heard anyone mention it yet: plunger work on Wycliff Gordon and Ron Westray's CD "Bone Structure" is definitelly the best I have heard in recent times. Lend these guys a ear sometime... The approach is also quite beyond the Al Green technique 's far as I can tell. -Joao > There's some great plunger work on Ray Anderson's Big Band Record, > especially the cut "Nine Lizards" on which all three tenors (Anderson and > Baron are two) play plunger solos. Not exactly Sam Nanton-style, mind you. > > Also, I took a quick look at Ray's setup a couple of years ago. It appeared > to me that he was using a trumpet straight mute as well. > > > Rod Ellard > > --------------------------------------------- Joao Pedro Leao * jleao@cfa.harvard.edu Computer Systems Manager - Central Engineering Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics 1815 Massachussetts Av. , Cambridge MA 02140 Phone: (617)-496-7990 extension 124 ---------------------------------------------- "All generalizations are abusive (specially this one!)" ------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:47:22 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <000101bf5ba5$f84b9e60$079f01d5@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Angie Brunk To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone > Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it. > What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up with > something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment. I can understand your feelings Angie. That's the difference between trombones and humans. Humans are emotional. Trombones are stupid. You can mistreat them, but they don't complain. You can throw insults at them and blame them for everything that goes wrong when you haven't practiced, but they still respond to you in the nicest possible way when you want to make love to them. Sorry to hear you have the flu. Hope you feel better soon. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 22:21:27 -0500 From: Brett Wilson To: Trombone-L Subject: Another Slide Question Message-ID: <38795037.BAE7F125@speedynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List, I just recently got a new trombone. It's an 88H. It's a great horn but I'm a little concerned about the slide. It seems that even after I clean it and lubricate it the slide doesn't move as smooth as I think it should. There are no dents in it and it feels like there is too much cream on the slide but I really don't think I'm putting too much on. I'm using Trombotine slide cream. Once I spray the slide with a little water it goes pretty good. But shortly after I spray it, it's slow again. Could it be a misaligned slide, or just the cream I'm using? I know I'm putting the cream on correctly too. Any ideas? Thanks a lot! Brett Wilson From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:04:02 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: transcription requests Message-ID: <200001102103.PAA20738@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Response to my question about transcriptions has been very positive. Next question: write to me and let me know what solos or collection of solos (i.e. CD or album by a particular artist) you'd most like to see in print. Again, no promises here, I am just interested in doing some transcriptions for my own use but if I can get consent of the licensee I would be more than happy to make them available to the public. Also, transcribing is relatively time consuming so the finish of this project could be way down the road. For now, I'd just like to know what y'all are most interested in. Also, there has been recent discussion of an arrangement for trombone of the middle movement of Beethoven's Pathetique sonata that appeared on Urbie Green's "Bein' Green" album in the 70s. I left a message with Dick Hyman today to see if he'll make it available. If you're interested, contact me and I'll keep you posted. Thanks, Mike From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:55 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:09:34 -0500 From: richardt@LEE.ARMY.MIL To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: FW: volume control Message-ID: <21E592FA8BA7D311B5B100062B001FE2082E94@LEE2> reposting to see if I can post again. /tim > -----Original Message----- > > > I've been thinking a little about loud playing (as opposed to thinking > about playing loud, which my kids think I already do.) (i know, loudLY). > This is prompted by the person who wanted to play really ugly, as well as > the continuing references to bells that "do not hold up at loud volume." > (as well as watching the bands at several bowl games this weekend.) > > It seems like the first limiting factor is the air, then the chops. When > I first started playing again after a many year layoff, I could not play > as loudly as my peers, because I wasn't filling the horn. After a while i > got so I could overblow it. Or, rather, overblow something. Now i can > blow louder than my chops can control. But a lot of people play louder > than me on the same equipment. Their chops are stronger, they can keep > tone quality at louder and louder volume. At a certain point it may be > that neither the air nor chops, but the horn becomes the limiting factor. > Fink said a given horn can be pushed only so far, and further effort > doesn't add anything. > > It is common for people on the list to say that certain horns don't hold > up at high volumes as well as others. I wonder if this actually happens > or is a perception thing. (and how could we tell the difference?) And, > if true, what mechanically is going on? For that matter, what physically > is going on when you learn to control your chops/tone at high volume? > yours, > tim richardson From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:15:19 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mike Bennett wrote: > Like Mr. Grisham I am unable to simply play the higher notes in my warmup > range "on demand". Assuming I am properly warmed up, I can produce any > note > up through the sixth partial "on demand" and with no musical context. > (e.g., > if I hurried in late after rehearsal break, and missed even hearing a > tuning > note, I could pick up the instrument and correctly play the first note of > the > piece, presuming it's no higher than sixth partial F). But to play a note > higher than that, I simply must be able to mentally "hear" the note before > I > play it, based on its interval from the previous note I've played (or in a > > pinch, based on its interval from a note I can hear somebody else playing, > if > I know what note that person is playing). > > Using my accustomed multiple choice format, I ask you all for insight into > > solutions for this: > > 1. Practice, practice, practice. > 2. Practice, practice, practice, taking care to include > _________________________ in your practice. > 3. What? Are you crazy? 7th partial and up will never be as easy as 6th > partial and down. You just have to tame them as best you can, using > choice > 1. or 2. as your approach. > 4. Other ______________. > What, exactly, is the problem? If it is a technical problem, that is, you can play notes in a warm-up routine but cannot depend on being able to play them in a piece, then the answer is 2, and the blank is filled in by "troublesome passages that contain the note" and perhaps "interval studies, playing the note as the top note of every interval from half step to octave." It might be useful to read songs etc. written in treble clef 1) at pitch, 2) as if they were notated in alto, mezzo soprano, or soprano clefs, with the appropriate key changes. In other words, I do not mean the trick of tenor clef plus two flats, which usually puts the notes in a middle register. If, on the other hand, the problem is that you can dependably play all of the notes in the upper register but cannot dependably hear which note needs to be played--a very different problem to be sure--then the answer is 2 (blank filled in by "ear training exercises") and 4 (listening with a score and trying to follow inner parts, sing the trombone entrances, etc.). For ear training exercises, I am partial to traditional solfege using movable "do". I can try to explain it in more detail if it's of any immediate interest to anyone. Someone has just complained that not enough virtuoso performers are also good composers any more. It's just as valid a complaint that not enough instrumentalists sing at all, but it's very good for ear training even if it makes the wife and kids (room mate, dog, whatever) run for cover! And students--if your teacher asks you to sing during a lesson, don't grumble and complain. Sing! ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 13:20:14 -0800 From: Dan Aldag To: trombone-l Subject: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <387A4D6D.2FDF@axe.humboldt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I may get torched for this, but I feel compelled to address this nonetheless, so (donning asbestos suit) here goes: There have been a couple of recent posts that referenced the Texas High School All-State auditions this year including an excerpt from Berlioz's "Symphonie Phantastique", complete with high Eb. I have serious concerns about the appropriateness of asking high school players to play this or other music that presents technical challenges of a professional level in an audition. Here in California, the All-State audition solo this year was the first movement of the Serocki "Sonatina." I have a very talented private student who made the band, but I know that he struggled to meet the technical challenges of the piece, and as a result, playing musically took a back seat to just-trying-to-play-the-right-notes. When we ask high school students (even All-State-caliber players) to perform music of this technical level, what kind of message are we sending them? That the best players are those who can play the highest, lowest, fastest, whatever-est? Are we eliminating from the Honor Group Experience the kids who play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and with good rhythm, but don't have a high Eb yet? I fear that many of these kids will either not even take the audition, figuring they don't have a chance cuz they can't play all the notes, or will be eliminated from consideration by the auditioner cuz "they missed the high note(s), and these other students didn't", even if that was the only thing that was better about the latter students' auditions. Even if a kid can manage to hit all the high notes or play all the rapid passages, at what cost does this achievement come? How many hours of practice did that student have to spend to be able to play those passsages that could have been devoted to working on rhythm, intonation, style--or even scales? I didn't listen to the California All-State audition tapes this year, but a friend did. She told me she was shocked at how many kids messed up their scales. I know there are high school players out there with solid Ebs who also can play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and with good rhythm, but are there really enough of them that this should be our standard for high school players? -- Dan Aldag, Visiting Assistant Professor Dept. of Music, Humboldt State University 1 Harpst Street Arcata, CA 95521 (707)826-5447 From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:44:55 EST From: MBennetts@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: <32.323c1e51.25abacd7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What, exactly, is the problem? If it is a technical problem, that is, you > can play notes in a warm-up routine but cannot depend on being able to play > them in a piece, > If, on the other hand, the problem is that you can dependably play all of > the notes in the upper register but cannot dependably hear which note needs > to be played--a very different problem to be sure-- I think by the way you answered you helped me work out the answer. When I posted the question, I really thought the problem was #2. But thinking it through more, I think the problem is mostly #1, exacerbated by a bit of #2. I think the real root problem is that the notes above sixth partial are less familiar to me because I've so seldom played them. I barely played them at all in jhs and hs. Even now, trying to work on both ends of my range, I don't play those notes nearly so often as the ones in the middle of my range. Therefore, I'm just less familiar with how it feels to play them, and even as I gain familiarity with them, I'm working more on other stuff so the "familiarity gap" is growing. So I think it's practice, practice, practice, with more emphasis on interval studies working off the higher register notes. Thanks. Mike Bennett From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:44:49 -0600 From: "Guion, David" <8guion@jmls.edu> To: "Trombones and related issues forum." , "'dja1@axe.humboldt.edu'" Subject: RE: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dan Aldag asked, > I know there are high school players out there with solid Ebs who also > can play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and with good rhythm, > but are there really enough of them that this should be our standard for > high school players? > I find it shocking to learn that anyone at all seriously thinks the answer to that question is yes! How many of our established pros could dependably play that note in high school? I agree with Dan that there are a lot of more important things for them to be working on. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ David Guion, Cataloger John Marshall Law School 315 S. Plymouth Ct. Chicago, IL 60604 Voice: (312) 427-2737 x 552 Fax; (312) 427-8307 "Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read"--Groucho Marx ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ > ---------- > From: Dan Aldag[SMTP:dja1@axe.humboldt.edu] > Reply To: dja1@axe.humboldt.edu > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 3:20 PM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: appropriateness (was Audition Question) > > I may get torched for this, but I feel compelled to address this > nonetheless, so (donning asbestos suit) here goes: > > There have been a couple of recent posts that referenced the Texas High > School All-State auditions this year including an excerpt from Berlioz's > "Symphonie Phantastique", complete with high Eb. I have serious concerns > about the appropriateness of asking high school players to play this or > other music that presents technical challenges of a professional level > in an audition. Here in California, the All-State audition solo this > year was the first movement of the Serocki "Sonatina." I have a very > talented private student who made the band, but I know that he struggled > to meet the technical challenges of the piece, and as a result, playing > musically took a back seat to just-trying-to-play-the-right-notes. > > When we ask high school students (even All-State-caliber players) to > perform music of this technical level, what kind of message are we > sending them? That the best players are those who can play the highest, > lowest, fastest, whatever-est? Are we eliminating from the Honor Group > Experience the kids who play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and > with good rhythm, but don't have a high Eb yet? I fear that many of > these kids will either not even take the audition, figuring they don't > have a chance cuz they can't play all the notes, or will be eliminated > from consideration by the auditioner cuz "they missed the high note(s), > and these other students didn't", even if that was the only thing that > was better about the latter students' auditions. > > Even if a kid can manage to hit all the high notes or play all the rapid > passages, at what cost does this achievement come? How many hours of > practice did that student have to spend to be able to play those > passsages that could have been devoted to working on rhythm, intonation, > style--or even scales? I didn't listen to the California All-State > audition tapes this year, but a friend did. She told me she was shocked > at how many kids messed up their scales. > > -- > Dan Aldag, Visiting Assistant Professor > Dept. of Music, Humboldt State University > 1 Harpst Street > Arcata, CA 95521 > (707)826-5447 > From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:50:45 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Dan Aldag Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I don't know about most other states, but, most likely (from what I've heard about past TMEA orchestra auditions), the reason TMEA is asking for this excerpt is because some conductor that they've hired to conduct the top All-State orchestra decided to program it. I understand your sentiments entirely, but in this case, they're probably just trying to find a high schooler who can play the part and avoid being totally embarassed at the concert (rather than just choosing more user-friendly music and hoping that whoever best plays Voxman etudes (or other similar works) can also play Symphony Fantastique passably.) Hopefully, though, they also have other material in the audition to judge the other 99.5% auditioning who won't be sitting 1st chair in that particular orchestra (from TMEA's point of view, it's only going to matter that they find ONE person to get the job done; why make a bigger deal out of it than it needs to be?). Beth L. On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Dan Aldag wrote: > I may get torched for this, but I feel compelled to address this > nonetheless, so (donning asbestos suit) here goes: > > There have been a couple of recent posts that referenced the Texas High > School All-State auditions this year including an excerpt from Berlioz's > "Symphonie Phantastique", complete with high Eb. I have serious concerns > about the appropriateness of asking high school players to play this or > other music that presents technical challenges of a professional level > in an audition. Here in California, the All-State audition solo this > year was the first movement of the Serocki "Sonatina." I have a very > talented private student who made the band, but I know that he struggled > to meet the technical challenges of the piece, and as a result, playing > musically took a back seat to just-trying-to-play-the-right-notes. > > When we ask high school students (even All-State-caliber players) to > perform music of this technical level, what kind of message are we > sending them? That the best players are those who can play the highest, > lowest, fastest, whatever-est? Are we eliminating from the Honor Group > Experience the kids who play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and > with good rhythm, but don't have a high Eb yet? I fear that many of > these kids will either not even take the audition, figuring they don't > have a chance cuz they can't play all the notes, or will be eliminated > from consideration by the auditioner cuz "they missed the high note(s), > and these other students didn't", even if that was the only thing that > was better about the latter students' auditions. > > Even if a kid can manage to hit all the high notes or play all the rapid > passages, at what cost does this achievement come? How many hours of > practice did that student have to spend to be able to play those > passsages that could have been devoted to working on rhythm, intonation, > style--or even scales? I didn't listen to the California All-State > audition tapes this year, but a friend did. She told me she was shocked > at how many kids messed up their scales. > > I know there are high school players out there with solid Ebs who also > can play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and with good rhythm, > but are there really enough of them that this should be our standard for > high school players? > -- > Dan Aldag, Visiting Assistant Professor > Dept. of Music, Humboldt State University > 1 Harpst Street > Arcata, CA 95521 > (707)826-5447 > > From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:04:41 -0600 From: Angie Brunk To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: I knew jazz was good for something :-) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've always thought that being a musician better prepared me for life in general. This seems to confirm it. With all the jazz musicians and librarians on the list, I thought someone would find this announcemment interesting. >Jazz and Libraries: > >Have you ever thought of yourself as a jazz musician? Here's what one >Kansas librarian wrote recently, "All I do is improvise on the job these >days. I don't even know what the next note is going to be until I hear what >some of the others in the band have to say and play. Then I play along with >the others trying to make me and everyone sound as good as possible." > >MARK YOUR CALENDARS FOR WEDNESDAY, MARCH 15TH AND COME ON OVER TO EMPORIA >FOR A DAY OF JAZZ!! THE School of Library and Information Management at >Emporia State University and the Kansas State Library are sponsoring a >conference in which you'll hear jazz AND investigate jazz and improvisation >as metaphors that can teach us more about leadership, management, and >librarianship. > >The conference will be held 9-3 in Vissar Hall, third floor WSEC Jones >Conference Center, on the ESU campus. > >Watch for more details regarding registration!!! Angie Brunk MLS Indiana University School of Library and Information Science 1999 "As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever."--Clarence Darrow From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:26:46 -0600 From: Emil Orth To: b-wilson@bigfoot.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Another Slide Question Message-ID: <387A5CA6.C8E82651@midsouth.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett, Lay off the creme applications. Wipe your inner slides as best you can...put the outer slide back on , water it and go. Keep doing this, you have enough lube on the inside of the outer tubes to spread evenly. A little water spray and the gooey action will go away. Good Luck, Emil Brett Wilson wrote: > Hi List, > > I just recently got a new trombone. It's an 88H. It's a great horn but > I'm a little concerned about the slide. It seems that even after I clean > it and lubricate it the slide doesn't move as smooth as I think it > should. There are no dents in it and it feels like there is too much > cream on the slide but I really don't think I'm putting too much on. I'm > using Trombotine slide cream. Once I spray the slide with a little water > it goes pretty good. But shortly after I spray it, it's slow again. > > Could it be a misaligned slide, or just the cream I'm using? I know I'm > putting the cream on correctly too. Any ideas? > > Thanks a lot! > Brett Wilson From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:38:23 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <30.30277570.25abb95f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Aldag writes: << There have been a couple of recent posts that referenced the Texas High School All-State auditions this year including an excerpt from Berlioz's "Symphonie Phantastique", complete with high Eb. I have serious concerns about the appropriateness of asking high school players to play this or other music that presents technical challenges of a professional level in an audition.>> Me too. I did read another post about the specifics of this audition, but it IS indicative of a more general, overall tendency, especially here in California. <> This isn't the first time I've heard of situations like this. An argument could be made to rethink the choice of audition materials. I remember asking a tubist in my high school who always got into the honor groups if he had any tips for me. He said to play a solo with a lot of fast notes, the judges always are impressed by that. Sadly, it was very true. Technique versus expression wins again. <?>> I think this will be the case if no music is used on auditions that highlights those aspects of overall musical expression. Also, how about; setting a mood, playing with feeling, emotion, dynamics, playing a convincing, communicating musical phrase. <> If fundamentals are not taught or required on the part of students to learn, they will be lacking. In California at least, there may be too much emphasis on rote learning and field show memorization, at the expense of fundamentals. Anybody from other parts want to chime in? Matt Varho bass trombonist Aliso Viejo Symphony Slyde Rowe Trombone Quartet From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:00:03 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <200001102301.QAA43236@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: dja1@axe.humboldt.edu trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from Dan Aldag 01/10/00 1:20pm -0800 > There have been a couple of recent posts that referenced the Texas High > School All-State auditions this year including an excerpt from Berlioz's > "Symphonie Phantastique", complete with high Eb. I have serious concerns > about the appropriateness of asking high school players to play this or > other music that presents technical challenges of a professional level > in an audition. Here in California, the All-State audition solo this > year was the first movement of the Serocki "Sonatina." I have a very > talented private student who made the band, but I know that he struggled > to meet the technical challenges of the piece, and as a result, playing > musically took a back seat to just-trying-to-play-the-right-notes. The California All-State auditions have always used relatively difficult pieces. The two years I auditioned, they used Paul Tanner's Aria (tenor version) and David's Concertino. The Tanner isn't quite as difficult, notewise, but the harmonies are, ummm, (forgive me, Paul) esoteric. It isn't a trivial piece of music -- especially if you're just starting to get into 20C harmony. I was in the same boat as your student -- the pieces were *just* within my capacity, notewise, and I had to struggle to make music out of them. Add the stress of the live audition ... and an adjuticator who didn't know beans about trombones (he classified the 72H I was playing as a tenor ... I guess because it only had one valve). I know from music camp experience that *musically* I was more advanced than at least two of the guys who played in the top band my senior year -- I placed above them, so obviously somebody thought I was better. But I accepted that they were better on the day of the placement auditions. The thing that really chafed me was that even though I auditioned as a bass trombonist, I had to play the tenor solos. The level of the players at All- State in California (and Texas, for that matter) is such that they can get away with these sorts of demands. Whether it does much for the musicianship of the students who aren't quite to that level is debatable. I'm not sure what the answer is. > When we ask high school students (even All-State-caliber players) to > perform music of this technical level, what kind of message are we > sending them? That the best players are those who can play the highest, > lowest, fastest, whatever-est? Are we eliminating from the Honor Group > Experience the kids who play musically, with a good sound, in tune, and > with good rhythm, but don't have a high Eb yet? I fear that many of > these kids will either not even take the audition, figuring they don't > have a chance cuz they can't play all the notes, or will be eliminated > from consideration by the auditioner cuz "they missed the high note(s), > and these other students didn't", even if that was the only thing that > was better about the latter students' auditions. The key is having judges who know the instrument in question, and who can make judgements about the demands of the pieces in the repertoire that year. If the symphonic band is doing the Barnes 3rd Symphony for Band, you'd better not put a bass trombonist in who doesn't have good command of the pedal register. You'd better not put anyone on 1st who doesn't have complete command of the high register, and the endurance of a draft horse. If the parts demand it, I think those have to be the judging criteria. If, on the other hand, they don't demand it, don't apply them. If you're not doing Symphonie Fantastique, don't ask for the passage that rips up to the Eb ... listen for other things. Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:56 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:28:09 -0700 (MST) From: James Scott To: b-wilson@bigfoot.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Another Slide Question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Brett- It could be that there's too much cream built up on the inside of your outer slide, or that some rotary valve oil has dripped into your slide - either way, I would suggest swabbing out the outer slide before you re-apply any slide cream, and that should fix your problem. Jim Scott On Sun, 9 Jan 2000, Brett Wilson wrote: > > > Hi List, > > I just recently got a new trombone. It's an 88H. It's a great horn but > I'm a little concerned about the slide. It seems that even after I clean > it and lubricate it the slide doesn't move as smooth as I think it > should. There are no dents in it and it feels like there is too much > cream on the slide but I really don't think I'm putting too much on. I'm > using Trombotine slide cream. Once I spray the slide with a little water > it goes pretty good. But shortly after I spray it, it's slow again. > > Could it be a misaligned slide, or just the cream I'm using? I know I'm > putting the cream on correctly too. Any ideas? > > Thanks a lot! > Brett Wilson > > > > From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:41:49 -0800 From: "Rodney Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: plunger players-contemporary Message-ID: <002001bf5bc4$46ab1cc0$20f094d1@rod> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re: plungers and mutes: So why wouldn't any trumpet straight mute work? The guys behind me probably have more than they need. Why not just pinch one the next time is rolls under my chair? Sure, maybe a Tom Crown* or a Non-pareil has the "sound" but we're talking wah-wah here and, if you're listening to Ray Anderson, fuzzed out wah-wah to boot. Rod * with just the right electrical tape, too. Rod From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:34:03 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I could dependably play that note (Eb-top treble clef space) in High School and I know a number of other people who could also. Let's not forget that music is a package deal, you have to be able to nail the technical stuff and do it musically. I'm sure the persons who will listen to the auditioners understand this as well as the audtioners teachers. It is about musicality. That single high note makes it easy to choose between 2 kids who both played the excerpt musically where only one hit all the notes. Then again if no one hits it the musicality is the main criteria anyway so no loss. Lets not forget that these all-state auditions are a valuable "audition" experience for budding musicians and they should model the real thing very closely. That makes this a good choice of materials. I also doubt that these students will be audtioning on large bore tenor bones. They'll be playing a .500 or .508 bore horn which isn't that much bigger than an alto. No problem. Jeff From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:34:19 EST From: Neobopr@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: volume control Message-ID: <19.1958c329.25abd48b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When it is a professional player, over-blowing the horn and/or too bright/tinny of a tone, is equipment. This is proportionally related to bell thickness and bell construction material, soldered rim, heavy slide, etc. The heavier a bell and/or the more dense its material (like sterling silver), the louder you can play it before it breaks up. Conversely, the thinner the bell and/or the less dense its material (like rose brass), the more quickly it will break up. I had a Yamaha 641 which was a .551 bore horn with a rose brass bell. I could play salsa volume all night on that thing and it was bright and loud. I would never have considered using that horn symphonically. My new 682B .547 bore has a very thick and heavy gold brass bell. It takes a heckuvalotta power before it even gets brighter. Jeff Adams (being stressed at the Houston Audition) From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:20:50 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Lewis To: Neobopr@aol.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 Neobopr@aol.com wrote: > I could dependably play that note (Eb-top treble clef space) in High School > and I know a number of other people who could also. Yes, but did it sound as beautiful and relaxed (etc. etc.) as any other note in your range? Quality should always come before quantity in music. > > Let's not forget that music is a package deal, you have to be able to nail > the technical stuff and do it musically. I'm sure the persons who will > listen to the auditioners understand this as well as the audtioners teachers. > It is about musicality. That single high note makes it easy to choose > between 2 kids who both played the excerpt musically where only one hit all > the notes. Hold on a second...I've attended a conservatory and a major university, and those students I've known who have the range and the musicality to play high stuff like Bolero, L'Enfant, Symph. Fant., etc., _convincingly and consistently_ are by far the minority (and we're not talking about grade school kids here...). If you put Bolero or L'Enfant in front of a high schooler and say "learn this," even if s/he has heard it before, s/he's going to immediately concentrate on the fact that it's high -after the student picks his/her chin up off the floor-(that's if the tenor and treble clefs don't cause the student to give up completely). Playing that tessitura AND with a proper style/interpretation concept is beyond 99.99% of high schoolers' limits. If you or someone you know is/was one of that estimated .01%, that's fantastic. But just remember, for your future students' sakes, most are not. >Then again if no one hits it the musicality is the main criteria > anyway so no loss. Lets not forget that these all-state auditions are a > valuable "audition" experience for budding musicians and they should model > the real thing very closely. That makes this a good choice of materials. True. But one learns through success. Failure only breeds failure. So start with something that the top 20% or so of high schoolers could actually play. Then you have some room to judge interpretation. > > I also doubt that these students will be audtioning on large bore tenor > bones. They'll be playing a .500 or .508 bore horn which isn't that much > bigger than an alto. No problem. Um...Someone I met from Texas a couple of years ago swore that a certain high school band owned a fleet of Edwards (for marching--ugh) That may have been a 'tall tale,' but from living 45 min. from Texas for most of my life, I'm pretty certain that large bore trombones are the norm there (_especially_ for high school) just like anywhere else. Anyone from Texas could probably vouch for that as well (Wayne?). G'night, Beth L. > > Jeff > > From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:51:30 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Greg Black mouthpieces Message-ID: <200001110151.TAA11720@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anybody out there playing on a Greg Black mouthpiece? If so, what are your thoughts about it. Thanks, Mike From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:51:37 EST From: AlRobnett@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: <46.46547255.25abe6a9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/00 3:18:10 PM Central Standard Time, 8guion@jmls.edu writes: << If, on the other hand, the problem is that you can dependably play all of the notes in the upper register but cannot dependably hear which note needs to be played--a very different problem to be sure--then the answer is 2 (blank filled in by "ear training exercises") and 4 (listening with a score and trying to follow inner parts, sing the trombone entrances, etc.). For ear training exercises, I am partial to traditional solfege using movable "do". I can try to explain it in more detail if it's of any immediate interest to anyone. >> I have certainly had this problem and would like to hear more about your exercises. Allen From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:05:03 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: <200001110204.UAA12550@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Big question here. Almost any pedagogical literature you read about brass playing will stress the importance of using the same mouthpiece rim size (not to mention the same physical setup) so as to allow your lips to develop the muscular memory required to respond consistently. In the real world (where many of us reside), let's face it, a lot of people switch mouthpieces for use in different horns or for different types of music. There are lots of folks on this list that do that and many who play several different brass instruments other than the trombone (I myself play alto horn and cornet on occasion and try to stay in reasonable shape). Reg Fink in his book on trombone technique is adamant about using the same trombone mouthpiece, however, admits that using a mouthpiece that differs greatly in size (i.e. going from trombone to cornet or French horn) won't cause problems as they are so far apart in size and will actually both develop different muscle "grooves" (over simplified, but you get my point). I know lots of guys (I used to be one of them) who play both tenor and bass trombone - obviously they are not using the same mouthpiece or even the same rim in the case of interchangeable cups and rims. So, what do y'all think about using different mouthpiece sizes which are rather close in size (e.g. different trombone mouthpieces). Be honest, be brave, share your experience. Thanks a lot, mike From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:04:42 EST From: AlRobnett@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: transcriptions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/9/00 11:44:22 PM Central Standard Time, astro@pconline.com writes: << I am thinking of doing some of that work again and making it available to others - thanks to the ease of desk top publishing. Do you guys think there is much interest out there? (not asking if there is money in it, there isn't, just wanna know if there is an interest). >> There is no question about extensive interest. I personally would like to see anything from the Mosaic release of Jack Teagarden's Capitol Fifties Sessions, especially from disc 1. I certainly hope that copyright issues could be worked out. Please keep me posted. Allen From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:57:16 EST From: Budshcneider@aol.com To: Neobopr@aol.com, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/00 6:35:18 PM Central Standard Time, Neobopr@aol.com writes: << I also doubt that these students will be audtioning on large bore tenor bones. They'll be playing a .500 or .508 bore horn which isn't that much bigger than an alto. No problem. >> Jeff, I just judged an all state high school orchestral audition. In the district that I was assigned, only one high school student played the audition on a small bore trombone. I listened to 25 high school trombone players. I was amazed at all of the 88Hs, Bach 42s and the number of Edwards that I saw. Jeff, I graduated high school in 1972. There were 10 trombone players in the band. All were playing .547 bore horns. I think you might be surprised to see how sophisticated (equipment wise) high school trombone players are now days. Bud Schneider From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:07:25 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: dclason@nmsu.edu, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000110200725.00a66290@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 04:00 PM 1/10/00 MST, Dennis Clason sent: >The thing that really chafed me was that even though I auditioned as a bass >trombonist, I had to play the tenor solos. Still happens today in the All-State auditions right here in New Mexico. They don't seem to believe that Bass Trombone is a different instrument. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:13:11 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000110201311.00a66560@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 08:20 PM 1/10/00 -0500, Beth Lewis wrote: >Um...Someone I met from Texas a couple of years ago swore that a certain >high school band owned a fleet of Edwards (for marching--ugh) That may >have been a 'tall tale,' but from living 45 min. from Texas for most of my >life, I'm pretty certain that large bore trombones are the norm there >(_especially_ for high school) just like anywhere else. Anyone from Texas >could probably vouch for that as well (Wayne?). Well -- I grew up in Freer, Texas, and graduated from Free High School in 1973. Freer is 120 miles south of San Antonio. The band was there to support the football team. In the spring semester, we played concert music, but I suspect it was to keep the band together for the next fall. It should be obvious that we didn't have much of a music program. We had something like 6 band directors in 6 years. But through it all, our only school-owned trombone was a Conn 88H. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:48:47 -0600 From: j.grisham@pmail.net (Josh Grisham) To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ><< I also doubt that these students will be audtioning on large bore tenor > bones. They'll be playing a .500 or .508 bore horn which isn't that much > bigger than an alto. No problem. >> Actually, I really kind of wish that maybe I could play the part on my .500 bore horn. This afternoon, after a short jazz band meeting, I was messing around, and I could actually play the part on my 6H.. at least 9 times out of 10, or more. But, of course, with a smaller horn, I would be sacrificing my sound, so it is pretty much a given that I HAVE to play it on my .547 bore trombone. And yes, everyone at my Area audition was playing on a large bore. There were even a few freshmen there, and yes, they all had large bores as well (I didn't get a large bore until I was a sophomore, though). Many horns that I actually wish I could have :) . I play on a Blessing B-88-O, and am not very satisfied with it. I can only play the part, as I said earlier, like 1 out of 15 times on my Blessing horn. Does anybody think that it would be advisable to get a new horn like this week and begin to learn it like mad? I've played on a Bach 42 before and everything was much easier to do than on my Blessing.. I really have to work for lots of stuff that I do with what I am currently playing compared to the 42. I've heard that a Conn 88H w/ yellow bell is just as responsive as a Bach 42, but still has the general Conn sound, which I love, and would basically be a lot like my Blessing in a lot of ways, except that it would play a LOT better. I was going to get a new horn sometime soon anyway, so I am kind of thinking about getting it soon and beginning to work like mad with a tuner and tons of practice to get used to it and its intonation. I do have like three concert/performance type situations before this February audition, so I could be kind of used to it by then. I know that it does take a lot longer than that to really get used to a horn, but I think that I maybe could make it work if it would all be for the best. I really feel like sometimes I am almost at a disadvantage, because it always seems like I am trying to push my Blessing to its limits, instead of it pushing me. And then again, maybe I should just stop whining and accept last place at the audition. :) --Josh Grisham <>< j.grisham@pmail.net From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:51:39 EST From: BarryMcCom@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Greg Black mouthpieces Message-ID: <27.27734278.25ac02cb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, I just had Greg make me a mouthpiece within the past month. For reasons that I don't need to go into, I needed a duplication of the mouthpiece that I've been playing on for the past several years. I was nervous about it being a tr ue duplication rather than being almost the same. I talked to him on the phone, told him what I was looking for, then made an appointment to see him. I spent about an hour & a half at his house/shop while he took measurements, drew sketches, and asked a bunch of questions. I was in somewhat of a hurry to get the mouthpiece, so he got this custom piece to me in barely over a week. The work is impeccable! If you put a blindfold on me I wouldn't know the difference from the original to the duplication. On top of that, he's a really easy going guy. I've played custom pieces by other makers in the past and he was by far the easiest to work with. It was very clear to me that he wouldn't stop working with me until I had want I wanted. I play bass bone without a leadpipe----one very reputable maker simply refuses to make shanks to suit this because, in his words, "I thought that fad was over years ago." I guess it's his prerogative to make(or not make) what he wants, but when advertising "Custom Mouthpiece Making," you'd think you could have made what you want. When I told Greg that I needed a big shank for this reason, he didn't balk for a second. I can't say enough good things about his work. Hope this helps...... Barry ************************************* Barry McCommon Bass Trombone (215)619-7760--home (215)219-2440--mobile BarryMcCom@aol.com ************************************* From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:02:49 EST From: Harpbonefran@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/00 5:39:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, BassBonist@aol.com writes: << If fundamentals are not taught or required on the part of students to learn, they will be lacking. In California at least, there may be too much emphasis on rote learning and field show memorization, at the expense of fundamentals. Anybody from other parts want to chime in? >> Isn't this the trend in our field in general? Why should it be different in high school all-state auditions? It happens in orchestra auditions all the time, the one who plays all the notes perfectly and fast wins. Expression and individual interpretation do not win the job. However, thank goodness there are those among us who value the fundamentals and good music-making. When I was in high school in the early 80's, the story was much the same. They asked for challenging solos that were barely within my reach, and I still made the top ensembles. But put me on the spot and I actually botched a Bb major scale because I was nervous and had not put in enough practice time on scales! Anyway, at least there is some discussion about it. It just seems to me that the teachers and band directors sometimes get too caught up in competition against each other at their students' expense. And I do agree that the Berlioz was probably on the list because the conductor programmed it. Hopefully it won't cause good players to skip the audition. Good luck to all of you who have to play it! a new lister, Fran From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:57 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:29:08 -0600 From: "David Pozos" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Philly bones Message-ID: <000401bf5bf5$834add60$26c022c8@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF5BC2.7E1D5DA0"
Hello all,
    I picked up a really nice CD over the holidays. I wonder if anyone might know who the bone players are on the Philadelphia recording of Rachmaniov 1 with Charles Dutoit recorded November of 1991 (London 436 283-2). I really enjoy there playing alot and will probably look for more recordings from that time period. Thanks in advance.
 
David Pozos
Primer Trombón
Orquesta Sinfónica de Xalapa
 From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:04:42 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: astro@pconline.com, "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: transcription requests Message-ID: <4.1.20000110230140.00bcde80@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Other Teagarden material: The Roulette albums form the late 50's and early 60's. I can give you specific tunes off line. - Larry At 03:04 PM 1/10/00 -0600, Mike Coyle wrote: >Response to my question about transcriptions has been very positive. Next >question: write to me and let me know what solos or collection of solos >(i.e. CD or album by a particular artist) you'd most like to see in print. From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:04:22 EST From: BassBonist@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Philly bones Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Pozos writes: << I picked up a really nice CD over the holidays. I wonder if anyone might know who the bone players are on the Philadelphia recording of Rachmaniov 1 with Charles Dutoit recorded November of 1991 (London 436 283-2). >> Recorded in 1996, I highly recommend the Philadelphia Orchestra's CD of the Shostakovich suites from The Bolt, The Gadfly and Cheryomushki. The CD is entitled "The Dance Album" and is on London 452-597-2. Conductor on this recording is Ricardo Chailly and it's a really impressive CD: the trombone section is superb, in fact, the orchestra is virtuoso all the way, and the interpretation and recording quality is amazing. All around, I think of it as a "must have" CD in my collection. Matt Varho bass trombonist From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:20:37 -0500 (EST) From: TRBNTERRY@webtv.net (TRBNTERRY) To: astro@pconline.com, TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Doubling and different size mouthpieces Message-ID: <18333-387ACBB5-24655@storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) MIKE COYLE WROTE: So, what do y'all think about using different mouthpiece sizes which are rather close in size (e.g. different trombone mouthpieces). Be honest, be brave, share your experience. Thanks a lot, mike Mike, as far as I'm concerned, chops are chops and it's all how you use them and not abuse them. Mouthpiece pressure is your worst enemy, however if you don't have the chops built up strongly, pressure is almost impossible to avoid, and that's where you start getting into trouble switching on different mouthpieces. About 40 years ago, and still only a trumpet player who had completed the Don Reinhardt pivot and non-pressure system, I found it incredibly easy to adopt to valve trombone with a 7C mouthpiece. Over the years, I also began playing euphonium, slide tenor, tuba and bass trombone. I choose the mouthpiece which seems to match me with the horn for sound, control and range, and presently includes: Trumpet........3C with 76 backbore Tenor ...........Schilke 42B for jazz, 7C for legit Bass..............1 1/2 GM Megatone Eb Tuba.........Bach 32E Euphonium.....Schilke 51D As you can see, there is absolutely no correlation between rim sizes, cup diameters, etc. I simply never allowed myself to get psyched into all the little nuances when it comes to rims, because I still don't use much pressure. The rim is really the only part that touches your lips, and a rim which is either too round or too sharp can really affect your playing. Things such as throat openings and backbores I have found to have a great influence on my playing. I frequently triple on trombone, trumpet and euphonium and occasionally, tuba. The tuba seems to enhance my chops for the other horns. If a mouthpiece feels awfully uncomfortable right from the start, I toss it. Otherwise, the only time I feel any discomfort is when I hold it to my lips for too long without at least a few measures break in between. I truly believe our minds influence our adaptability to different size mouthpieces, although, I'm not so sure that I could adapt to a trumpet mouthpiece had I begun on trombone. Case in point; The few times I tried French horn, it was a total disaster. The bottom line is, choose a mouthpiece which best matches you with the horn and always be acutely aware of the amount of mouthpiece pressure you're using. Quit worrying that switching to another horn won't work. Regards, Mike Terry From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:22:17 EST From: Yoda505@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Practicing High Stuff Message-ID: <4b.4b723224.25ac2619@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I play some of the old Big Band and Jazz music in Jazz Band, I have stuff written such as 8va------ over middle C and such, and If I am lucky enough to hit it, it will sound like.... well you know. I tend to work on it as written at home, but whenever I have to perform it, I just do it down an octave. And then, hopefully, by the concert I will be comfortable enough to play it as written. {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} {}#**********************************#{} {}*+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ *{} {}* | David Getsfrid | *{} {}* | 1st Chair Trombone/Piano | *{} {}* |Jazz and Advanced Band | *{} {}* | Covington Middle School | *{} {}* | Beginning Composer | *{} {}* +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ *{} {}#**********************************#{} {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} "Your life is your own composition; Only you control when you get out of those minor parts."- Me "Music is not just notes on a page, and machine quality playing; It must involve feeling, emotion, and all of your heart."-Me "If you cross a drummer and an ape, you get a really dumb ape"-Drummer Joke From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:45:19 -0800 From: "Ellard" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: appropriateness (was Audition Question) Message-ID: <000e01bf5bff$6f3cb1e0$50b694d1@ellard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Didn't this thread start with a discussion about a high eb in Symphonie Fantastique? So play the pea shooter and argue that it is more "authentic", i.e. more similar to the peashooter French 'bones Berlioz wrote for. Rod From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:19:24 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: blueprint Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF5C47.3E24DD60"
Greetings,
I would like to know how can I get the blueprint of Vincent Bach 50BO?
I'm situated in Singapore which make it a hard task to contact the manufacturer directly.
 
Best Regards,
Eric Ang
PG:  92594459
ICQ: 18995426
Check me out at IRC #virtual_world [^gReenPea]
 
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 From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:58 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:22:12 +0800 From: "Eric" To: "Trombone-L" Subject: Trombone Studies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BF5C47.A25B7780"
Greetings,
I got a great recommendation for trombone studies, you can get them in China at very affordable price.
All written by the local reowned music professors.
 
Best Regards,
Eric Ang
PG:  92594459
ICQ: 18995426
Check me out at IRC #virtual_world [^gReenPea]
 
*CONFIDENTIAL NOTE:
The information contained in this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above,and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. 
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error,please immediately notify the sender and delete the email. 
 
 From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:59 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:40:25 +0100 From: "Dick Sleeman" To: "Trombones and related issues forum" Subject: Re: Urbie and Bach Message-ID: <006001bf5c18$11533720$0f7dadc1@dick> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since this message apparently did not reach the list due to posting problems and another message of mine did, I try to post this message again: In the late sixties - early seventies Urbie did a concert at Loosdrecht, Holland, to be recorded by the Dutch radio system. In the audience were just about all jazz trombonists who were not needed elsewhere (it was in the daytime anyway). He played two sets. During the interval between the sets he went around with a bucket full of mouthpieces and handed them around, saying: "I tried them all.... they're all good!" And yes, some of them were Bach's. Groeten, Dick. d.sleeman@hccnet.nl From ???@??? Tue Jan 11 08:20:59 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:54:25 +0100 From: Anders Carlsson To: Mike Coyle Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Doubling and using different mouthpieces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On doubling: Proffesionally I have played and still play the following Yamaha Eb tuba with some old Besson mouthpiece I like King 6B bassbone with a 1 1/2 G - Mainly Big Band but also brassensemble Bach 42 BOW/3 with a Bach 5G or 4G - Orchestral King 3B silver sonic with Bach 7C - Horn section and jazz Tenor Sackbut with Giardinelli custom MP - Obvious Alto Sackbut with SlokarALto MP or Bruno Tiltz MP - same as above I have also plyed Flugelhorn SemiProffesionally (a gig with guys I play with proffesionally but this time everyone played for free). Like mentioned before using you«re chops and breathing in the right way togehter with continued practicing on the setup my muscles are most used to, it all works fine. I would however state that I do not agree with the non pressure system as I think it affects the sound in a not pleasant way. I«m not saying that I, or you should use a lot of pressure but that a small amount of pressure is needed to get a good sound. I once heard the following lines on mouthpiece pressure (one of the great taboos in our trade) between an american orchestral trumpetplayer (can«t remember who) and a swedish masterclass attendant. Sir, do you use mp pressure? Yes I do. Do you use a lot of mp pressure? Yes sometimes I do. But sir, why do you do that? (now quite upset). Well I need the money. ____________________________________________ Anders Carlsson, Gothenburg , Sweden. Brassplayer, arranger, conductor and brassteacher. Anders.Carlsson@gfs.gu.se or trombone@musiker.nu