TROMBONE-L Digest 1565 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Cordless mic by Zemry@aol.com 2) Player/writers by "Adrian Drover" 3) Re: ? by "Adrian Drover" 4) Re: Urbie and Bach by "Adrian Drover" 5) Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) by "Adrian Drover" 6) Re: bass to treble clef by "Adrian Drover" 7) Re: Why Play Trombone by "Adrian Drover" 8) Re: Player/writers by "Brooke and Ryan Ringnalda" 9) Re: Urbie and Bach by 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) 10) Brass Band Situations Wanted for January 2000 by Nigel Horne 11) Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) by "Les Benedict" 12) Re: Why play the trombone? by NHSGrizzly16@aol.com 13) Bugles...corps by Elisabeth Frederick 14) Re: Urbie and Bach by "Kenneth Dowdy" 15) Re: 21 Trombones albums by Douglas Yeo 16) Re: Slide Repairs by John Capon 17) Re: ? by Atlbrvsnt@aol.com 18) Re: Bass to treble clef, the sequel by Dan Aldag 19) Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) by "Adrian Drover" 20) Re: Why Play Trombone by Angie Brunk 21) Audition Question by j.grisham@pmail.net (Josh Grisham) 22) re: Why do I play Trombone? by "John Palmer" 23) Re: Why Play Trombone by Mike Coyle 24) Re: Bass to treble clef, the sequel by "Adrian Drover" 25) Re: Why Play Trombone by Earl Needham 26) Re: Audition Question by Douglas Yeo 27) Re: Why play the trombone? by Bodie Pfost 28) Re: 21 Trombones albums by Dave Burch 29) Re: Why Play Trombone by "Kenneth Dowdy" 30) Pete Strange - UK trombonist by Larry & Carol Bronisz 31) [Fwd: Why Play Trombone] by Larry White 32) Re: Why Play Trombone by Russ Kreigh 33) Re: Why Play Trombone by paulel9@bellsouth.net 34) Quentin Jackson (opening a pretty big can of worms) by "James Yardley" 35) Re: Quentin Jackson (opening a pretty big can of worms) by "Christopher Smith" 36) Andy Clark by hal-starkey@webtv.net (Hal Starkey) 37) Re: Player/writers by "Aaron Roth" 38) Re: Why I Play Trombone by TRBNTERRY@webtv.net (TRBNTERRY) 39) transcription project by Mike Coyle 40) Re: Audition Question by Tbcwes@aol.com 41) Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) by Mike Coyle 42) recital level duets by Tbcwes@aol.com 43) How do I Unsubscribe? by Alex Earl 44) Re: 21 Trombones albums by Douglas Yeo (by way of Charles ) 45) plunger players-contemporary by Charles From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 07:09:40 EST From: Zemry@aol.com To: jjjohnson-list@list.sirius.com, TROMBONE-L@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Cordless mic Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are some good cordless mics for trombone and the price ranges. Thanks! From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:12:48 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Player/writers Message-ID: <00da01bf5a9b$825fa440$3fcbac3e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: alex iles To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 3:40 PM Subject: Piano [was bass to treble clef] > What do you all think? I'm especially curious to hear the comments from the > list's player/composers [and budding p/c's!]. I would say that the all-round player/writer is in a minority breed. Speaking for myself, I would say my writing skills are far in advance of my playing skills, simply because I have given more time and effort to my writing activities than to any of the many instruments that I have played thro'out my musical life. You might say, I play as a relief from writing. Having said that, while I am playing, I am continually analysing other arranger/composer's charts, and my explorations into the techniques of various instruments has undoubtedly helped me develop my particular styles of writing. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:12:53 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: ? Message-ID: <00db01bf5a9b$8353c840$3fcbac3e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 2:09 AM Subject: Re: ? > > >> Glenn Miller????????????????? > > > > > >Where? Is he back? > > > > Never left! Is presently working on a 'Rap' arrangement of the St. Louis > > Blues March for the Don Ellis Band. HUH?! > > Hey, I've played a 'Country' arrangement of St. Louis Blues in jazz band...... > > ~Tommy Was that one of Glenn's charts? A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:13:08 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Urbie and Bach Message-ID: <00dc01bf5a9b$8467f760$3fcbac3e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth Dowdy To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:08 PM Subject: Re: Urbie and Bach > I wonder if he is just getting tired. Maybe it is > just me (I also happen to prefer Maynard's stuff from the 70s Maybe that's because he had a bunch of wild, crazy, long-haired Brits and New Zealanders in the band. Maybe we're all getting tired now, that is, those of us who are still here. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:13:15 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Les Benedict" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) Message-ID: <00dd01bf5a9b$8552f3a0$3fcbac3e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Benedict To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 2:46 AM Subject: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) > Since the bugle corps subject came up, let me mention that Clare Fischer > heard a corps and fell in love with the sound, and purchased thousands of > dollars worth of instruments, then set out to find L.A. players to perform > on them. He has used them on Prince recordings, among others. The most > notable is his own "Jazz Corps," available from www.clarefischer.com. It's a > 30 piece jazz band consisting of 20 brass, seven woodwinds and percussion, > featuring bugles ranging from contrabass to soprano, along with marching > baritones and trombones and some other odd instruments (I played Eb helicon, > Eb alto flugelhorn and Eb cornet). There's a snippet of "Cherokee" > downloadable from the website on which the contra (Rod Mathews) is > prominent. Trombonists of note on the recording include Andy Martin, Alex > Iles and Morris Repass. Hey wait a moment Les. Frank is talking about bugles in G, Tom has told me about intermediate pitches in D, now you're telling me that there are Eb pitches too. Is there some confusion between Bugle Band and Brass Band (Brit.) instrumentation here. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:12:43 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: bass to treble clef Message-ID: <00d901bf5a9b$8143d400$3fcbac3e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: FRANK T. DARMIENTO To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 2:22 AM Subject: Re: bass to treble clef > The instrumentation includes bugles and extensive percussion. > The bugles typically include sopranos, baritones and in the > larger groups, basses. They are all three valve instruments > (so they can play the full chromatic scale) and are pitched > in G. Therefore, the soprano is minor third below a Bb trumpet, > the baritone is a minor third below a trombone or euphonium, and > the bass is a minor third below a Bb tuba. (The bass is made > to carry on your shoulder.) So, they're all in G? No intermediate sizes? I presume all these horns are bugle shaped (flugel/tuba). Are the parts transposed? Are they all in treble clef? Do the players read parts, or are they learned? You say the Soprano sounds a 3rd lower than the Bb Trumpet, so is it's part written a 4th higher, like Alto Flute? > In the old days (when I was in grade school) the bugles had > a single valve, adding a fourth to the fundamental. I was shown some instruments in my local band shop that had 2 valves (one rotor, one piston). Are these from the same family? > Hope I didn't confuse you further. No Frank, very enlightening so far. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:13:49 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <00de01bf5a9b$88232aa0$3fcbac3e@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My Trombone never has a headache nor "one of those days" nor "Just too > tired" nor a certain time of the month. > > My trombone just lays there, waiting for me to make love to it, any time > of day or night. It never complains about it being 3 o'clock in the > morning. (Passionate trombonists NEVER put the horn in a case except to > take it on a gig) > > The more I make love to my trombone, the more it responds. There is > NEVER a moment of indifference. Sometimes it gives me a little argument > about what I'm trying to get it to do, but it never complains even if I > decide to do the same thing over and over a thousand times. > > And, talk about getting a "high". When your trombone speaks back to you > all the little nice things which you whispered, is there anything better > than that? > > Mike Terry Love It! This is one for my studio wall. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 07:46:54 -0500 From: "Brooke and Ryan Ringnalda" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Player/writers Message-ID: <200001091251.HAA11234@mail0.mco.bellsouth.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Good Morning listers, I'm not exactly sure how or where this thread got started but I thought I would add my two cents worth. I have make it a point to not let either writing or playing get the best of me. Some times during the year I have to let my practicing slide (pardon the pun) in lieu of getting arrangements and new tunes completed. Other times I don't write for an extended period of time depending on what is going on. I try and set a block of time aside each day for writing and for practice but that doesn't always happen. I believe in versatility and maintaining my chops in both things keep me wired and working. Later... Sliding along, Ryan Ringnalda ---------- >From: "Adrian Drover" >To: "Trombones and related issues forum." >Subject: Player/writers >Date: Sun, Jan 9, 2000, 7:12 AM > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: alex iles > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 3:40 PM > Subject: Piano [was bass to treble clef] > > >> What do you all think? I'm especially curious to hear the comments from > the >> list's player/composers [and budding p/c's!]. > > I would say that the all-round player/writer is in a minority breed. > Speaking for myself, I would say my writing skills are far in advance of my > playing skills, simply because I have given more time and effort to my > writing activities than to any of the many instruments that I have played > thro'out my musical life. You might say, I play as a relief from writing. > Having said that, while I am playing, I am continually analysing other > arranger/composer's charts, and my explorations into the techniques of > various instruments has undoubtedly helped me develop my particular styles > of writing. > > A. > > Adrian Drover (ADIOS) > Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk > Business: studio@adios.co.uk > www.adios.co.uk > > > > From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:19:47 GMT From: 108509@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au (Simon Greatwood) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Urbie and Bach Message-ID: <38798a6c.22134702@wilbur.ld.swin.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My apologies for inaccurate info. I said that Urbie and 21 tbones was available on CD. I've just checked the catalogue at uni and it is actually called "Umpteen trombones - featuring Urbie Green" and 20 other bonists inc JJ, Kai, but no Dave Taylor? New York : Project 3 Records, c1987. Simon Greatwood From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:07:23 +0000 From: Nigel Horne To: brass-band@smsltd.demon.co.uk, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu, brass@quartz.gly.fsu.edu, tuba-l@listserv.vt.edu, tubaeuph@onelist.com Subject: Brass Band Situations Wanted for January 2000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit People listed here are looking for a brass band to play in. To advertise here send details to njh@smsltd.demon.co.uk in the form: Name, Position sought, Location, E-Mail address, WWW address. All of the people listed here are amateur musicians and give their time freely. They will neither charge a fee or claim expenses. Professional and semi-professional entries can be found on the Professional Cards page, http://www.smsltd.demon.co.uk/professional.htm. Other points as per the vacancy list. Jason Welch (posted 6/1/00) Cornet Brussels, BELGIUM jason_welch@computacenter.com Jon Cranston (posted 30/10/99) Euphonium/bass trombone/Eb bass Colchester, ESSEX, UK crismyk@aol.com Johann Mintoff (posted 5/12/99) Euphonium Southampton, HAMPSHIRE, UK j.mintoff@thespecialists.co.uk Kathleen Keenan (posted 2/10/99) Trombone LINCOLNSHIRE, UK dmouse@ukonline.co.uk Chris Melville (posted 14/10/99) Soprano LONDON, UK chris_melville@hotmail.com Victoria Seville (posted 25/11/99) Horn MANCHESTER, UK seville@zen.co.uk John Ingman (posted 3/10/99) Bass trombone MANCHESTER, UK basstrombone@bigfoot.com Iain McNeil (posted 22/11/99) Bass trombone NOTTINGHAMSHIRE, UK fish_damage@hotmail.com Ken Baldwin (posted 7/10/99) Cornet Bath, SOMERSET, UK en6kdb@bath.ac.uk Claire Warden (posted 21/11/99) Horn Kenilworth, WARWICKSHIRE, UK lucky700@theglobe.com Matthew Smith (posted 5/12/99) Soprano Coventry, WEST MIDLANDS, UK matthew.smith12@virgin.net Matthew Fearn (posted 22/12/99) Cornet Leeds, WEST YORKSHIRE, UK MJFearn@mfearn.freeserve.co.uk Erik van der Eijk (posted 6/1/00) Trombone UK, Ireland, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand e_van_der_eijk@hotmail.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 08:08:50 -0800 From: "Les Benedict" To: "Adrian Drover" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) Message-ID: <003a01bf5abb$d2a3d640$3e12f4d8@s8y2d3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops, confusing statement on my part. I didn't make it clear that the Ebs, etc. are used by Clare _in addition_ to the bugles in his band. The bugles are in G. Les lesbenedict@earthlink.net > > Hey wait a moment Les. Frank is talking about bugles in G, Tom has told me > about intermediate pitches in D, now you're telling me that there are Eb > pitches too. Is there some confusion between Bugle Band and Brass Band > (Brit.) instrumentation here. From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:05:00 EST From: NHSGrizzly16@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why play the trombone? Message-ID: <98.9878da13.25aa19bc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's not the simplest instrument, but it is the simplest instrument to keep in tune while playing From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:45:16 -0800 From: Elisabeth Frederick To: " Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Bugles...corps Message-ID: <3878C92C.69C2A2E3@nctimes.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey All, I've played in some drum and bugle corps and this is how it works... Yes, usually all instruments are pitched in G, although, DCI (drum corps international) just made a rule change allowing valved instruments of other pitches to be played....I belive to get more corps to start...bugles aren't cheap. They include sopranos and baritones as well as mellophones, there is a french horn bugle which is one of the most awful things to play, altos (yes different from mellophones), euphoniums....which are larger than the baris...and of course contra basses. There might be a few more alto instruments....but I'm not sure. But, YES, bugles do cover a full range from soprano to bass. If you are interested DCI's web page is: http://www.dci.org/ Hope I helped!! Elisabeth From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:45:33 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Urbie and Bach Message-ID: <001201bf5ad1$b905e820$133c103f@default> Adrian wrote: > >Maybe that's because he (Maynard) had a bunch of wild, crazy, long-haired Brits and >New Zealanders in the band. Maybe we're all getting tired now, that is, >those of us who are still here. > And for the new guys on the list, one of those wild, crazy, long haired Brits is a bass trombone playing arranger that we all know and love. I'm glad you're still here! Ken Dowdy From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:39:10 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: 21 Trombones albums Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 1:19 PM +0000 1/9/00, Simon Greatwood wrote: >My apologies for inaccurate info. I said that Urbie and 21 tbones was >available on CD. I've just checked the catalogue at uni and it is >actually called "Umpteen trombones - featuring Urbie Green" and 20 >other bonists inc JJ, Kai, but no Dave Taylor? To clear up the confusion about Urbie and the 21 Trombones: There were two LPs issued under that name, Volume 1 and Volume 2. Volume 1 was Project 3 5014, recorded in 1967, volume 2 was Project 3 5024, recorded in 1968. They were later released in 1977 as a 2 LP set (also called 21 Trombones) by Project 3, catalog number PR2-6021/6022SD. In 1987, Volume 1 of 21 Trombones was released on CD under a new title, "Umpteen Trombones" (an incredibly lame name, and with an Amati trombone on the cover, to boot!), Project 3 CD PRD5014. Seeing as they maintained the original catalog number on the CD as on the LP, perhaps there is (faint?) hope that Volume 2 may surface sometime as well. As to why David Taylor wasn't on the 21 Trombone sessions, it's simple: he was just out of college and only beginning to make a name for himself in NYC. The 21 Trombones albums (which actually employed 25 players over the sessions) utilized 4 quintets of players on charts, 4 tenors and a bass in each quintet (with rhythm). Tommy Mitchell, Alan Raph, Dick Hixon and Paul Faulise played bass trombone. They still sound great after all these years... Speaking of Urbie, while looking through my LP collection for this info on 21 Trombones, I came across an LP I haven't listened to in years: Don Costa's "Echioing Voices and Trombones" (United Artists Ultra Audio WWs-8501). The trombone players are Urbie, Frank Rehak, Bobby Byrne, Bobby Alexander, Chauncey Welsch, Dick Hixon and Tommy Mitchell. I'll have to give that a listen later today. That's the great thing about getting older - you forget what you have so when you stumble across it, it's new again!! :-) -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 00 12:28:51 -0700 From: John Capon To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Slide Repairs Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I just got back from the repairman where I got a couple of slides >repaired. With one of my horns, this was the third guy to work on it in >the past two months and, so far, it appears that the slide is finally >working properly. Does it ordinarily take three shots to get a slide >fixed? It plays more or less okay in the store, but after about 1/2 an >hour, you can tell its not yet right. Is it possible to take a twist out, >play it for awhile and have the slide gradually twist back a little? > >Rod Rod, Sounds like you might have a case that twists the slide. As for slide repairs. I hear from Ian McDoulgall that there is a woman in Victoria who is an excellent slide repair person. Ron Partch in Toronto is my fave. John From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 16:40:20 EST From: Atlbrvsnt@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: ? Message-ID: <2d.2dec7cb2.25aa5a44@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/9/00 7:17:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, slide.rule@adios.co.uk writes: > > > > >> Glenn Miller????????????????? > > > > > > > >Where? Is he back? > > > > > > Never left! Is presently working on a 'Rap' arrangement of the St. > Louis > > > Blues March for the Don Ellis Band. HUH?! > > > > Hey, I've played a 'Country' arrangement of St. Louis Blues in jazz > band...... > > > > ~Tommy > > Was that one of Glenn's charts? > > A. Actually, this arrangement is by Andy Clark (school jazz band). ~TC From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:57:32 -0800 From: Dan Aldag To: trombone-l Subject: Re: Bass to treble clef, the sequel Message-ID: <387904D5.20DD@axe.humboldt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some clarifications and corrections on some earlier posts regarding this topic: Trombonists can read Bb trumpet, soprano sax, treble clef baritone and tenor sax parts (Bb treble clef) by reading them as tenor clef parts and adding two flats, subtracting two sharps, or some combination thereof. For example, key of F (one flat) becomes key of Eb (three flats), key of E (four sharps) becomes key of D (two sharps), and key of G (one sharp) becomes key of F (one flat--subtract the one sharp and then add one flat.) You may have noticed that another way of thinking about the key change is that the key you'll be playing in is a whole step below the key in which the music was originally written. However, if you want a trumpet or soprano sax part to sound in the proper octave, you must also also play them an octave higher. For example, the treble-clef bottom-space F in a trumpet part sounds as Eb above middle C. Trombonists can read alto sax and bari sax parts by reading them as bass clef parts and adding three flats, subtracting three sharps, or some combination thereof. For example, key of F (one flat) becomes key of Ab (four flats), key of E (four sharps) becomes key of G (one sharp), and key of D (two sharps) becomes key of F (one flat--subtract the two sharps and then add one flat.) You may have noticed that another way of thinking about the key change is that the key you'll be playing in is a minor third above the key in which the music was originally written. However, if you want an alto sax part to sound in the proper octave, you must also also play it an octave higher. For example, the treble-clef bottom-space F in a alto sax part sounds as Ab a major third below middle C. As for accidentals, think about what they really mean. A flat lowers the pitch by a half-step, a sharp raises the pitch by a half-step. A natural sign cancels an accidental. If the accidental being cancelled is a flat, the natural raises the pitch a half-step. If the accidental being cancelled is a sharp, the natural sign lowers the pitch a half-step. Happy transposing! -- Dan Aldag, Visiting Assistant Professor Dept. of Music, Humboldt State University From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 23:05:43 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: "Les Benedict" , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) Message-ID: <001901bf5af6$3e9d15c0$04f9abc3@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Benedict To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 2:46 AM Subject: Bugle bands (was bass to treble clef) > There's a snippet of "Cherokee" > downloadable from the website on which the contra (Rod Mathews) is > prominent. Trombonists of note on the recording include Andy Martin, Alex > Iles and Morris Repass. I listened to the few bars of wav file. That must have been fun to work on. BTW, who makes alto flugels in Eb? I've never seen one, but have always considered that brass bands should have these to bridge the gap between the Bb flugel and Euph. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:26:54 -0600 From: Angie Brunk To: TRBNTERRY@webtv.net Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:08 AM -0500 1/9/00, TRBNTERRY wrote: >Remember the old standard, "I'll Take Romance"? Well, personally, after >all these years, i've decided "I'll Take Trombone". Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it. What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up with something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment. Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner 'An it harm none do as ye will. "Well behaved women rarely make history"-Laurel Thacker Ulrich "I'd rather be his whore than your wife" just doesn't have the same sting as "I'd rather kiss a Wookee." From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 17:36:43 -0600 From: j.grisham@pmail.net (Josh Grisham) To: TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Audition Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Howdy ho there folks! I've got a pretty good question, I guess for you folks. In an upcoming audition (in exactly one month, as a matter of fact), we have to play many excerpts. One of these is the Berlioz Symphonie fantastique op. 14, mvmt. IV ("March to the Scaffold"). In measure 122, there is part of a lick written, and it says it is to be played 8va, which would make the top note a double Eb. I always play the note (plus a few more) in my warm up, but I don't think that I would be able to play it whenever I was asked to, at anytime. What I am asking is, would it be in good taste to play the measure as it is written and ignore the 8va marking, or should I try to play it 8va? I will probably not get the note when it is going to count (just now, I only got it like 1 out of 15 times to try). That is, unless with tons of practice my chops can learn the intervals well and I may be able to play it after a month of vigorous training. I would appreciate any opinions as to what you all think would be tasteful to do, whether in a professional situation or college situation or anything. Thanks a bunch guys and gals! --Josh Grisham <>< j.grisham@pmail.net From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:36:00 -0500 From: "John Palmer" To: "Trombone List Contributions" Subject: re: Why do I play Trombone? Message-ID: <009f01bf5afa$494a6780$fe488d18@kico1.on.wave.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I played trumpet for 25 years...and was rather good (had the whole schtick...6 trumpets etc) but about 12 years ago, my teeth started to ache like mad. I saw a dentist who said that he could pull the guilty tooth...and that might work...or it might not. I wimped out and switched to bass bone because I knew that there would be a position becoming available in the KSO soon. Brass is brass, but I soon discoverd that bass is a whole new ball of wax. I practiced for 3 years, auditioned and got the part. That was 5 years ago. I love it and I am learning to love the instrument more and more...especially when in small ensembles. 'Bone overtones sure sound and feel different than trumpet. I also double on tenor in a few jazz groups and quintet. I am looking for a good used 4 valve (or plus 5th rotary) Eb tuba to work more on the low end of things...my arm really gets tired holding the bass bone...(I guess it thinks I'm still holding a trumpet.) Cheers John Palmer Kingston From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:47:12 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <200001092347.RAA13891@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; types="text/plain,text/html"; boundary="=====================_17885597==_.ALT" At 05:26 PM 1/9/00 , you wrote:
>At 2:08 AM -0500 1/9/00, TRBNTERRY wrote:
>>Remember the old standard, "I'll Take Romance"?  Well, personally, after
>>all these years, i've decided "I'll Take Trombone".


>       Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it.
>What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap!  I'm sure I could come up with
>something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment.

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned,
Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"
                --Congreve (The Mourning Bride)

I don't think it was so much mysoginistic crap as it was admission of a relationship in peril.
I found the original post rather sad  :(

PS - I have the flu too  :\


>Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner
>'An it harm none do as ye will.
>"Well behaved women rarely make history"-Laurel Thacker Ulrich
>"I'd rather be his whore than your wife" just doesn't have the same sting
>as "I'd rather kiss a Wookee."
> From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 23:49:47 -0000 From: "Adrian Drover" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Bass to treble clef, the sequel Message-ID: <008c01bf5afc$809e9c40$04f9abc3@v4v3j2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Aldag To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 9:57 PM Subject: Re: Bass to treble clef, the sequel > Trombonists can read alto sax and bari sax parts by reading them as bass > clef parts and adding three flats, subtracting three sharps, or some > combination thereof. Yes, this one also comes in handy for tuba players confronted with brass band treble clef Eb bass parts. A. Adrian Drover (ADIOS Scotland) Personal: adrian@adios.co.uk Business: studio@adios.co.uk http://www.adios.co.uk From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:30:47 -0700 From: Earl Needham To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000109173047.00a81d20@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 05:26 PM 1/9/00 -0600, Angie Brunk wrote: >At 2:08 AM -0500 1/9/00, TRBNTERRY wrote: >>Remember the old standard, "I'll Take Romance"? Well, personally, after >>all these years, i've decided "I'll Take Trombone". > > Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it. >What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up with >something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment. Perhaps you won't feel that way after 20 years of a downhill slide. I hope you don't find out. Earl Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34¼25.446' W103¼12.700' (or so) Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, you breathe...) From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:38:49 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Audition Question Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 5:36 PM -0600 1/9/00, Josh Grisham wrote: > >In an upcoming audition (in exactly one month, as a matter of fact), we have >to play many excerpts. One of these is the Berlioz Symphonie fantastique >op. 14, mvmt. IV ("March to the Scaffold"). In measure 122, there is part >of a lick written, and it says it is to be played 8va, which would make the >top note a double Eb. I always play the note (plus a few more) in my warm >up, but I don't think that I would be able to play it whenever I was asked >to, at anytime. What I am asking is, would it be in good taste to play the >measure as it is written and ignore the 8va marking, or should I try to play >it 8va? I will probably not get the note when it is going to count (just >now, I only got it like 1 out of 15 times to try). That is, unless with >tons of practice my chops can learn the intervals well and I may be able to >play it after a month of vigorous training. The 8va marking is not in the part, it is originally written in alto clef at pitch. It sounds like you have a cheapo edition or an excerpt book trying to make reading the note easier. You don't have any option whether or not to play the note at an audition. You have to go for the note. If you can't hit the notes at an audition - regardless what the audition is for - you're not going to get the position. Getting all the notes is the bare minimum for taking an audition and nobody wins auditions by playing the notes alone. Taking the note down an octave will probably disqualify you in the mind of most committee members (certainly for a professional audition, and probably for a college audition - if you CHOSE the excerpt, then you picked something you can't play, if the excerpt was chosen for you, then you have to play the game and play the ink). If the audition is at a school you attend, how BADLY you miss the note will tell the committee something. Practice, or don't go to the audition. But go for the notes. Play the ink the best you can. If you can hit the note in practice, then find out why you can't hit it on demand at an audition. Address that issue and you'll have done yourself a big favor. -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:57:44 -0800 From: Bodie Pfost To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why play the trombone? Message-ID: <38792E88.BA78E678@wcinet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REOnofreyJ@aol.com wrote: > I play the trombone simply because I love the instrument. However, I > originally was introduced to the trombone when I entered college. I wanted > to join the marching band, however they would not allow me to play my > original instrument (the accordion). Can't imagine why. > > -Rick Onofrey If you went to my college, they wouldn't have a problem with you playing the accordian in the marching band. Heck, we even somebody who bangs on a beer keg! -- Bodie Pfost P.S. Why do I play the trombone? Like so many others, I kind of fell into it. My very first music teacher told me that he was a trombone player, so I thought I'd give it a try. I haven't gotten bored with it yet. From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:58:23 -0500 From: Dave Burch To: yeo@yeodoug.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: 21 Trombones albums Message-ID: <38792EAF.766121EF@fuse.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I first heard '21 Trombones' last year while at a friend's house to play duets. I thought the blended sound of 'Here Comes That Rainy Day', so perfectly balanced and in tune, was almost a miracle. Last fall, I had the good fortune to find both Enoch Light Project 3 LP volumes 1 and 2 on eBay, and I won the auction (Never even *thought* about losing!). They're both in perfect, mint condition. Now, I only need a working turntable... I plan to copy them to CD so the LPs never need wear out. Douglas Yeo wrote: > > There were two LPs issued under that name, Volume 1 and Volume 2. > Volume 1 was Project 3 5014, recorded in 1967, volume 2 was Project 3 > 5024, recorded in 1968. They were later released in 1977 as a 2 LP > set (also called 21 Trombones) by Project 3, catalog number > PR2-6021/6022SD. In 1987, Volume 1 of 21 Trombones was released on > CD under a new title, "Umpteen Trombones" (an incredibly lame name, > and with an Amati trombone on the cover, to boot!), Project 3 CD > PRD5014. Seeing as they maintained the original catalog number on > the CD as on the LP, perhaps there is (faint?) hope that Volume 2 may > surface sometime as well. -- @%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@ ------ Dave Burch ------ ---- Hamilton, Ohio ----- -- daveburch@fuse.net -- Church and community trombonist, baritone hornist, recorderist, choral singer After Hours Big Band Cincinnati Brass Band at http://cincinnati.brassband.com Hamilton-Fairfield Symphony Chorale (and sometimes Orchestra) at http://www.hfso.org Senior programmer/analyst, Mercy Health Partners @%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@%@ From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:09:47 -0600 From: "Kenneth Dowdy" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <001a01bf5b07$65316d60$d41c0f3f@default> Well, when it comes right down to it, I'll take romance over the trombone any day. However, after 18 years of marriage, a romantic interlude with the trombone is more of a "sure thing". However, when it happens, it is sure hard to beat romance, particularly with candlelight and the sounds of big band music and good food. Ken Dowdy -----Original Message----- From: Earl Needham To: Trombones and related issues forum. Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone >At 05:26 PM 1/9/00 -0600, Angie Brunk wrote: >>At 2:08 AM -0500 1/9/00, TRBNTERRY wrote: >>>Remember the old standard, "I'll Take Romance"? Well, personally, after >>>all these years, i've decided "I'll Take Trombone". >> >> Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it. >>What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up with >>something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment. > > Perhaps you won't feel that way after 20 years of a downhill slide. I >hope you don't find out. > > Earl > > >Earl Needham, KD5XB mailto:KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG >Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk N34º25.446' W103º12.700' (or so) > >Pet peeve: breath is a noun, breathe is a verb (When you take a breath, >you breathe...) From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 18:17:04 -0700 From: Larry & Carol Bronisz To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Pete Strange - UK trombonist Message-ID: <4.1.20000109181437.00c0ecb0@mail.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anyone tell me about a UK trombonist by the name of Pete Strange? He published an album of Jack Teagarden Solo transcriptions back in the 1980's. Thanks - Larry From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:58:40 -0800 From: Larry White To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: [Fwd: Why Play Trombone] Message-ID: <38793CD0.EC468BDC@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angie Brunk wrote: > At 2:08 AM -0500 1/9/00, TRBNTERRY wrote: > >Remember the old standard, "I'll Take Romance"? Well, personally, after > >all these years, i've decided "I'll Take Trombone". > > Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it. > What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up with > something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment. > > Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner You have made some pretty tough statements. I wonder how many Trombonists are running to their dictionaries to look up your opinion on 'crap'? Now you have opened up, and you get over the flu, you can rebut. Larry White From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:29:20 -0500 From: Russ Kreigh To: astro@pconline.com Cc: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <386793E0.6F52DCDC@fwi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why do I play trombone? Irish Tune from County Derry, enough said. Mike Coyle wrote: > > > At 05:26 PM 1/9/00 , you wrote: > >At 2:08 AM -0500 1/9/00, TRBNTERRY wrote: > >>Remember the old standard, "I'll Take Romance"? Well, personally, > after > >>all these years, i've decided "I'll Take Trombone". > > > > Maybe I'm just really grouchy because of the flu, but I doubt it. > >What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up > with > >something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the > moment. > > "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, > Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned" > --Congreve (The Mourning Bride) > > I don't think it was so much mysoginistic crap as it was admission of > a relationship in peril. > I found the original post rather sad :( > > PS - I have the flu too :\ > > > >Angie Brunk-The Blonde Soprano and Terror of Culley's Corner > >'An it harm none do as ye will. > >"Well behaved women rarely make history"-Laurel Thacker Ulrich > >"I'd rather be his whore than your wife" just doesn't have the same > sting > >as "I'd rather kiss a Wookee." > > From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:23 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:22:38 -0600 From: paulel9@bellsouth.net To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why Play Trombone Message-ID: <3879426E.FF41398E@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angie said, "What a bunch of disgusting mysoginist crap! I'm sure I could come up with something equally insulting to men, but I don't feel like it at the moment." Then Earl said, "Perhaps you won't feel that way after 20 years of a downhill slide. I hope you don't find out." And then I said, "Yikes! I'm not takin' sides. You're both right. I think I'll go practice my trombone." -- PAUL LUKAS TROMBONIST, PUBLICIST BARTLETT COMMUNITY CONCERT BAND MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE USA PAULEL9@BELLSOUTH.NET From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 20:50:57 -0600 From: "James Yardley" To: "Trombone-L forum." Subject: Quentin Jackson (opening a pretty big can of worms) Message-ID: <001301bf5b15$8aea1260$96b0fea9@james> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BF5AE3.3A522040"
Dear Listers,
 
    I know I'm opening a huge can of worms here, but I going to ask this anyways.  My high school jazz band is participating in the Essentially Ellington Competition.  It's put on by the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra and Wynton Marsalis.  My director signed up for it and they sent us six transcriptions of Ellington's music.  We will be recording a tape sometime at the end of this month and sending it to them in hopes of being selected to play at the Ellington "festival" thing in New York.  If you want more information on the competition, you can go to http://www.jazzatlincolncenter.org.  Anyways, to my question.
 
    One of the songs we're playing is called The Mooche.  It's a really cool song.  However, there is a trombone solo in it in which I'm playing.  The chord changes in the solo are very easy, and the solo isn't very long, only about 10 measures so one would think it would be very simple.  It's one of the most challenging solos I've ever tried to play in my life.  Becoming Quentin Jackson is no easy task.  After doing a little research, I've discovered that there are some trombonist that have dedicated their lives to learning how to sound like him.  Sometimes I wonder if the man is playing the trombone or singing.  It's just amazing.  I know that he is doing something with his embochure, because there is no way anyone could get his "wa wa" sound with simply moving the plunger back and forth.  I'm hoping there are some jazzers out there that know what I'm talking about.  I've practiced this technique a lot.  I've sat in the practice for hours, just playing quarter notes trying to sound like Quentin Jackson.  But everytime I go back to the recordings, I realize how much more I have to work at it.  I know that there isn't anything anyone can say that is going to magically make me sound like him.  But I'm hoping there someone might be able to offer some kind of advice.  Thanks.
 
James Yardley
Bass Trombone
Duluth Central High School
 
PS-I know my signature says Bass Trombone, but for all the Ellington stuff, I am playing on a pea shooter.  Just thought I'd clear that up.
 From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 05:13:38 GMT From: "Christopher Smith" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Quentin Jackson (opening a pretty big can of worms) Message-ID: <20000110051338.8422.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It's one of the most challenging solos I've ever tried to play in my life. Becoming Quentin Jackson is no easy task. After doing a little research, I've discovered that there are some trombonist that have dedicated their lives to learning how to sound like him. ++++++++++ ....or more likely Tricky Sam Nanton, the grandfather of the "talking trombone". People have been emulating him for over 60 years, and no one has ever come very close to sounding as plaintive or eerie as Nanton. Check him out on Ellington recordings from the mid '30s to '46 (when he died of a heart attack). or Sometimes I wonder if the man is playing the trombone or singing. ++++++++++ You're right. He's doing both, in a way. Playing while singing, or singing while playing. It's just amazing. I know that he is doing something with his embochure, because there is no way anyone could get his "wa wa" sound with simply moving the plunger back and forth. I'm hoping there are some jazzers out there that know what I'm talking about. ++++++++ I'm a "jazzer", I've studied Nanton, know his stuff, and play the plunger all the time. I'll give it a shot. But everytime I go back to the recordings, I realize how much more I have to work at it. I know that there isn't anything anyone can say that is going to magically make me sound like him. But I'm hoping there someone might be able to offer some kind of advice. ++++++++++ A few things first. 1) You are listening to the recordings- bravo! There is nothing more important in learning jazz style than to thoroughly absorb the music aurally. 2) If you are spending all that time on the specific technique of playing with a plunger, then the "secrets" of plunger playing WILL start to reveal themselves to you. There is no other way for this to happen than to put in the time. 3) It's also good that you know there's no magic wand which will make you a jazz player. Many people never learn this simple fact. By understanding the reality, you're on your way to really doing it. Now my crash course in plunger playing: 1) There are actually two setups you can use with the plunger- the plunger alone, or in combination with a small mute which fits underneath the plunger. 1A) Using a mute w/the plunger gives a much more mysterious and vocal sound, but also increases the difficulty of playing by about 200 percent. 2) The mute most commonly used w/plungers is a Humes and Berg Pixie (made for trombone). This is a very long mute which extends much further into the bell than a normal trombone mute. Al Grey, Steve Turre and Wycliffe Gordon all use this one with excellent results. But Ellington's trombonists (and most "authentic" plunger artists today) use(d) a trumpet mute called the Magosy and Buscher Nonpareil. There is a modern "copy" of this mute sold by Tom Crown, but it is NOT an exact copy. The dimensions are actually a bit different, and it doesn't sound at all the same to me. But it does give a decent sound. There was also an old Harmon brand straight mute for trumpet which works very well. I have all four of the above-named mutes, and in terms of expressive capabilities I'd rate them: 1. old Magosy and Buscher Nonpareil 2. old Harmon straight 3. new Tom Crown 4. new Humes and Berg Pixie although this brings me to: 3) With the trumpet mutes (1,2,3 above) you have to completely close the plunger over the bell to get notes below around Ab (top line in the staff). And the slide positions on many other notes have to be altered to get them in tune. With the Pixie mute, you can get reasonable facsimiles of most pitches through the lower range of the horn, but with similar pitch adjustment needed. So, in my opinion the trumpet mutes sound better, but you can really only use them for the mid to high range. The Pixie doesn't sound as good to me, but it is more flexible. And then there's availabilty. You're likely not to be able to find the old mutes. The Tom Crown and Pixie mutes can be ordered from stores. There is a necessary cork height adjustment to mutes for use with plungers. The trumpet mutes need to be "corked up", while the Pixie mute needs the cork height trimmed or shaved down. 4) You should make about a 1/2" hole in the end of your plunger where the handle would go if it was used in the bathroom. The hole allows air (read: notes) to escape when the plunger is completely closed over the bell. Without the hole in the plunger, you'll "stop yourself up". 5) Practice singing along with recordings of plunger virtuosos like Nanton, Jackson, Tyree Glenn, Turre, Gordon, etc. Really. Try to get as close an approximation of their trombone sounds with your voice. When you are getting close, go to the horn, pick up the plunger, and try to form your mouth and tongue movements in exactly the same way ***as you are playing the trombone***. Some guys use a "wah-wah" sound. Others (Nanton, especially) combine this with an alternate "yah-yah" sound which REALLY gives a vocal quality. 6) Articulting with the plunger is more difficult. Much of the time I use it, I unconsciously switch to "lip articulation", because it's almost impossible to tongue while making "vocalized" plunger sounds. Try saying "Tah" and "Yah" at the same time. It's prety hard unless you REALLY emphasise the "Yah". 7) Spend twice as much time listening to plunger artists playing as you do practicing. Keep the GOOD plunger sounds in your mind. Think about playing it when you don't even have the horn in your hands. 8) If you know of, or can find a jazz trombonist in your area who can play the plunger with authority, see if you can spend some time with them. Take a lesson, attend a concert, hang out and talk about plungers. I'm sorry but that's all I have time for tonight. I'm sure I've left some things out. Maybe someone else will write in more on the subject. Have fun, Chris http://www.geocities.com/~christo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 23:21:28 -0600 (CST) From: hal-starkey@webtv.net (Hal Starkey) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Andy Clark Message-ID: <26613-38796C58-20935@storefull-177.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andy Clark? Does anybody know if this is the Andy Clark who used to play with Superbones? He did some of the arrangements we played. A country St. Louis Blues sounds like something he'd do. _______________________ from TC on Jan 9, 2000, 4:40pm: Hey, I've played a 'Country' arrangement of St. Louis Blues in jazz ÊÊÊÊband...... ~Tommy ÊÊÊÊWas that one of Glenn's charts? ÊÊÊÊA. Actually, this arrangement is by Andy Clark (school jazz band). ~TC From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 21:23:38 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Player/writers Message-ID: <20000110052338.60958.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I know that many, many composers out there write almost exclusively for the instrument they play. For some instruments, like the violin, well, okay...but there's already a lot of music for solo violin out there, to understate the situation grossly. But for something like the trombone, such practice is much to the benefit of the community; when a competent player (or even an incompetent one like me) writes, he/she knows intimately the techniques available to the instrument and fits the music snugly against the boundaries of playability. It is interesting to compare the trombone music of trombone players to that of non-trombonists, too; take an Arthur Pryor solo and pit it against the Wagenseil Concerto (or is it Sonata?? I forget), or pit Spain from David Fetter's Bass Lines and put next to it the solo from Mahler's Symphony #3, or Keren by Xenakis. Not necessarily alluding to those examples, I find that trombone music by nontrombonists is easily categorised. There is music that is technically and even musically fairly easy to play, since the composer erred on the side of caution when writing for the clumsy, uncoordinated slide. There is music that is just plain nuts, made ludicrously hard by a composer that forgot that the trombone has a clumsy, uncoordinated slide. Then there is music that is written with knowledge on the part of the composer Just how clumsy and uncoordinated the slide is, tailor-fitting the music to the trombone and creating a challenging but playable piece. These categories apply only to music of a soloistic nature, by the way; orchestral excerpts tend to fall into another category, music that is usually not too hard technically, but is frequently Very challenging musically. Also, this is ALL my opinion. Take a shot! ;) As for me as a player and composer, well, I am behind most writers of music in terms of formal training. Indeed, the only such learning I have had is in the form of Theory 1102 at the school which I attend now; with such a low education, I could not produce a Romantic symphony for lack of full enough understanding of all the harmonic concepts available. By that same token, I have not yet had any innovative ideas pressed out of me by the rigour of academy; gross ideas plague me unhindered, leading to such things as massive, nonlinear glissandi produced by trombones in a row or surrounding a listening body. Now, my playing lags far behind my grotesque imagination; whereas I can play a massive, nonlinear glissando, I still have yet to fully perfect the idea of playing in tune or playing with a nice, consistent articulation. Ability at multiphonics doesn't help when I struggle to produce a smooth legato in the low register. For me, writing is strictly second to playing since right now I'm a student of playing and not a student of composition...until that major becomes available. I'm also strictly an amateur composer; I don't take money for commissions (not like I'm offered any :p ) and I haven't published anything as of yet. Good Night. -Aaron Roth >Good Morning listers, > >I'm not exactly sure how or where this thread got started but I thought I >would add my two cents worth. I have make it a point to not let either >writing or playing get the best of me. Some times during the year I have >to >let my practicing slide (pardon the pun) in lieu of getting arrangements >and >new tunes completed. Other times I don't write for an extended period of >time depending on what is going on. I try and set a block of time aside >each day for writing and for practice but that doesn't always happen. I >believe in versatility and maintaining my chops in both things keep me >wired >and working. Later... > >Sliding along, >Ryan Ringnalda ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 00:25:42 -0500 (EST) From: TRBNTERRY@webtv.net (TRBNTERRY) To: findley@csj.net, TROMBONE-L@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone Message-ID: <23225-38796D56-20966@storefull-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) CRAIG FINDLEY WROTE: Thanks for the great and surely-to-be-misunderstood comments. Wish I had your confidence in the confidentiality of the list. Send each of us $5.00 and we won't mention this little affair to your wife or the guys where you work. You inspire us. Think I'll go "practice" now. Craig Findley Craig, thanks for your comments. My message wasn't meant to offend anybody, but to be sure, it has been misinterpreted. The guys where I work are already aware of my passion, because they're all musicians. As for my wife, I think she understands. As a matter of fact, I just got home from making love to my beautiful old Mt. Vernon 16 for 3 hours and got paid handsomely to boot. You can't listen to Urbie without figuring out his secret. One of the best pieces of advice I think I ever gave to anyone was to a kid who I hauled around to gigs. All I said was "Larry, caress every note you play as if you're making love to a beautiful woman". Larry went on to Curtis and from there he played principal in La Scala for 8 years. BTW, I've never been one to endorse mouthpieces, but I recently acquired a Schilke 42B on the advice of a good friend and colleague, Art Sares. My understanding is that he helped design it based on the original Dorsey model. It took some time to get used to it because the rim is very narrow. However, tonite my range and tone were at their best. I even ended several tunes on an extended high F. Jazz and lead players should give this mouthpiece some consideration. Mike Terry From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 23:42:46 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: transcription project Message-ID: <200001100543.XAA31503@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hiya folks, Many years ago I had a stack of transcriptions that I had done of great trombone solos from early Teagarden to late Fontana. I lost them in a move I made from Philadelphia to New York (along with some other music, a plate reverb box and a great food processor! -- oh well, c'est la move!) I am thinking of doing some of that work again and making it available to others - thanks to the ease of desk top publishing. Do you guys think there is much interest out there? (not asking if there is money in it, there isn't, just wanna know if there is an interest). Thanks, Mike From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:10:48 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: j.grisham@pmail.net, trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Audition Question Message-ID: <2f.2f293f2b.25aad1e8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Berlioz did not give and option as I recall. You must play the note. If you are taking a professional audition (I do not recall your level from prior post) - stay home. Practice. You will probably be asked for that particular note many times in the future if you continue to play trombone. But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong ;-) -Wes From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 00:11:42 -0600 From: Mike Coyle To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Why I Play Trombone (aka trombone love making) Message-ID: <200001100612.AAA00622@newton.pconline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:25 PM 1/9/00 , Mike Terry wrote: >One of the best pieces of advice I think I ever gave to anyone was to a >kid who I hauled around to gigs. All I said was "Larry, caress every >note you play as if you're making love to a beautiful woman". ...and, in the event that you are playing the prelude to act III of Die WalkŸre, make believe you're making love to a very large woman wearing armour plating and a helmet with horns... All-in-all, I think I'll keep my love making and music making separate. Though, surely, the emotional prerequisites necessary for both are akin in nature, the acts themselves are sufficiently different to happily and successfully remain mutually exclusive. Far be it from me to get involved in list controversy, buuuuuuuuuuuut, I can see why Angie (and probably others) were upset by the original post (and perhaps to this subsequent post). It does tend to put women in a rather utilitarian light and has somewhat uncomfortable overtones (no jokes about harmonics, please, Adrian :) I am as much of a fan of useful analogy as the next guy, and I am not particularly politically correct, but, I felt pretty confident that this post would become an issue. Let's be nice to each other over this one folks and try to avoid an unpleasant trombone-l scene - we've gone several days without controversial incident! :) Mike >CRAIG FINDLEY WROTE: > >Thanks for the great and surely-to-be-misunderstood comments. Wish I had >your confidence in the confidentiality of the list. Send each of us >$5.00 and we won't mention this little affair to your wife or the guys >where you work. You inspire us. Think I'll go "practice" now. >Craig Findley > >Craig, thanks for your comments. My message wasn't meant to offend >anybody, but to be sure, it has been misinterpreted. > >The guys where I work are already aware of my passion, because they're >all musicians. As for my wife, I think she understands. > >As a matter of fact, I just got home from making love to my beautiful >old Mt. Vernon 16 for 3 hours and got paid handsomely to boot. You >can't listen to Urbie without figuring out his secret. > >One of the best pieces of advice I think I ever gave to anyone was to a >kid who I hauled around to gigs. All I said was "Larry, caress every >note you play as if you're making love to a beautiful woman". Larry >went on to Curtis and from there he played principal in La Scala for 8 >years. > >BTW, I've never been one to endorse mouthpieces, but I recently acquired >a Schilke 42B on the advice of a good friend and colleague, Art Sares. >My understanding is that he helped design it based on the original >Dorsey model. It took some time to get used to it because the rim is >very narrow. However, tonite my range and tone were at their best. I >even ended several tunes on an extended high F. Jazz and lead players >should give this mouthpiece some consideration. >Mike Terry > From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 01:22:52 EST From: Tbcwes@aol.com To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: recital level duets Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for a hip/flashy duet for trombone and trumpet to put on my recital. Got any suggestions? -Wes From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 22:26:48 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Earl To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: How do I Unsubscribe? Message-ID: <20000110062648.5620.qmail@web108.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can someone tell me how to unsubscribe? I am leaving for two years and so I don't want the messages to pile up too much while I am gone. Thanks Alex "Cheex" Earl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 02:34:31 -0500 From: Douglas Yeo (by way of Charles ) To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: 21 Trombones albums Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000110073431.006ad488@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 1:19 PM +0000 1/9/00, Simon Greatwood wrote: >My apologies for inaccurate info. I said that Urbie and 21 tbones was >available on CD. I've just checked the catalogue at uni and it is >actually called "Umpteen trombones - featuring Urbie Green" and 20 >other bonists inc JJ, Kai, but no Dave Taylor? To clear up the confusion about Urbie and the 21 Trombones: There were two LPs issued under that name, Volume 1 and Volume 2. Volume 1 was Project 3 5014, recorded in 1967, volume 2 was Project 3 5024, recorded in 1968. They were later released in 1977 as a 2 LP set (also called 21 Trombones) by Project 3, catalog number PR2-6021/6022SD. In 1987, Volume 1 of 21 Trombones was released on CD under a new title, "Umpteen Trombones" (an incredibly lame name, and with an Amati trombone on the cover, to boot!), Project 3 CD PRD5014. Seeing as they maintained the original catalog number on the CD as on the LP, perhaps there is (faint?) hope that Volume 2 may surface sometime as well. As to why David Taylor wasn't on the 21 Trombone sessions, it's simple: he was just out of college and only beginning to make a name for himself in NYC. The 21 Trombones albums (which actually employed 25 players over the sessions) utilized 4 quintets of players on charts, 4 tenors and a bass in each quintet (with rhythm). Tommy Mitchell, Alan Raph, Dick Hixon and Paul Faulise played bass trombone. They still sound great after all these years... Speaking of Urbie, while looking through my LP collection for this info on 21 Trombones, I came across an LP I haven't listened to in years: Don Costa's "Echioing Voices and Trombones" (United Artists Ultra Audio WWs-8501). The trombone players are Urbie, Frank Rehak, Bobby Byrne, Bobby Alexander, Chauncey Welsch, Dick Hixon and Tommy Mitchell. I'll have to give that a listen later today. That's the great thing about getting older - you forget what you have so when you stumble across it, it's new again!! :-) -Doug Yeo ********************************************** * Douglas Yeo * * Bass Trombonist, Boston Symphony Orchestra * * Music Director, The New England Brass Band * * yeo@yeodoug.com * * http://www.yeodoug.com * * <>< * ********************************************** A couple of months ago, I had the opportunity to sub (bass trombone) in a Central Florida Big Band and lo and behold, who was playing great lead bone? None other than the former bass trombonist mentioned by Doug, Tommy Nitchell! Not only did he play great, but he was extra friendly and spent the breaks talking about the "guys" he worked with......Urbie, JJ etc. What an experience for me!!!!! My son, who is a freelancer in NY. tells me he worls with Alan Raph and Paul Faulise from time to time and they are still fabulous players. . From ???@??? Mon Jan 10 08:57:24 2000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 05:15:03 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: plunger players-contemporary Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000110101503.00678fb8@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To good examples of great plunger playing (worth listening to)are Clarence Banks (with Basie) and Art Baron (freelancer). From what I hear (and see) they both use a pixie mute with the standard rubber plunger.