TROMBONE-L Digest 1560 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) high D (10th partial) by bob topper 2) Trombonus Afflitis by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marius_Helg=E5?= 3) Re: tuning stuff, Y2K, food... by "Daniel Pliskin" 4) Re: tuning stuff by "Daniel Pliskin" 5) Re: King 3B mouthpiece size, tuning & sound by "Daniel Pliskin" 6) Re: Equipment question by "Daniel Pliskin" 7) Re: Equipment question by Eric and Candice Swanson 8) Re: high D (10th partial) by Dennis Clason 9) Brass Instruments & Cryogenics by "Daniel Pliskin" 10) RE: Equipment question by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 11) Re: Equipment question by "Art Triggs" 12) Thayer Question by Wilson Ong 13) RE: Equipment question by "DOWDY, KENNETH S" 14) Re: Thayer Question by Stephen Troy 15) Re: A couple of new MP3's by Nick Drozdoff 16) Fwd: Dr. Douglas Lemmon by Listmonitor Trombone-L 17) baritone&tuba for sale CHEAP by Charles 18) RE: high D (10th partial) by "Hugo García Sampedro" 19) Re: Brass Instruments & Cryogenics by "Aaron Roth" 20) Re: Brass Instruments & Cryogenics by "Daniel Pliskin" 21) new music for trombone choir by "Aaron Roth" 22) RE: Thayer Question by "Hugo García Sampedro" 23) RE: Thayer Question by Dennis Clason 24) Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...) by David Oliver 25) Re: high D (10th partial) by " Dan Cloutier" 26) POSTING PROBLEMS by Listmonitor Trombone-L 27) Re: Thayer Question by " Dan Cloutier" 28) Fwd: Fw: Nat Adderly dies at 68 by Bruce A Wilcoxon 29) Re: Thayer Question by "Aaron Roth" 30) [Fwd: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...)] by David Oliver 31) Re: [Fwd: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...)] by Chad Horsley From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:19:01 -0500 From: bob topper To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: high D (10th partial) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000104081901.006dd8a0@pav.research.panasonic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, Just curious. Do most of you play this D in 1st or in flat 2nd? On my horn, 88h-CL, it is flat in 1st but not easy to pick out cleanly in 2nd. Thanks, Bob Topper From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:34:36 +0100 From: Marius HelgŒ To: "Trombones and related issues forum. (E-post)" Subject: Trombonus Afflitis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Got this job application over the mailinglist for Finale users. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Marius HelgŒ Bass Trombone Norway > Gentlemen: > > I wish to apply immediately for the job of Second Trombone > and I already have the two trombones. Although I have not > played much in an orchestra, I have played along with lots > of classic (no vocal) records. I found that if I slowed > them up a little that the songs automatically went into the > flat keys which are much easier, but I think I could do the > sharp keys in a short time. > > I was a student for several years of Mr. Remington (Buck, > not Emory) and then went with the circus band where my tone > really got great. You don't have to worry about me being > able to blast through on the Vogner stuff, that's for sure. > > After I watched "10", I got out my horn and worked up a > really great solo on "Bolero", (do you know that there is a > dance by this name too?) but I still have trouble knowing > when to come in with the record. Does your arrangement sound > the same all the way through, too? Anyway, I know that if I > get the job that the people in Chicago will like my version > which is doowop. > > Would I have to sit real close to the violins? They never > seem to play very loud and my tone sort of cuts off if I > have to play too soft so it would be best if I could sit in > front of the drums, like in the circus band. > > Also, I'd kind of like to sit on the outside so that people > could see me. I am practicing every day for the audition and > am working on a new thing called legato, but it's still a > little smeary. I think you'll like it though. But, if your > music is anything like this Rubank stuff, it will be a > challenge to me -teck- -techininuque- -tequch- ability. > There is a position on trombones called 5th, but hardly any > notes are there. Does your music have many of these notes > and if so, what are they? I'd like to know all of this > before I pay bus fare down to Chicago and how much does the > job pay? > > I'm really looking forward to coming down, but why would I > have to play behind a screen in the winter? > > Sincerely, > Slide Rafferty > > PS I have lots of music stands and probably have one like > you guys use, so that would be a cost saving. From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:37:52 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: tuning stuff, Y2K, food... Message-ID: <20000104143752.28199.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > The best SOUNDING trombones, the ones with the best response and >general >playing characteristics that I personally have ever played, have all had a >harmonic series that was relatively LESS "in tune" than the general run of >instruments. Thanks for this note. I was wondering how screwed up a horn had to be in order to play it's harmonics out of tune, so that they could be closer to equal temperament. I, not having the money to buy a new horn, have chosen not to play other horns. I wouldn't want to fall in lust with something I couldn't have. As such, I didn't go out and try dozens of horns, to see for myself. On the other hand, I also don't know whether my horn is aimed towards equal temperament or towards great sound. But, ahh, love is blind, so maybe I don't care. WHAT? Leave well enough alone? Not for this nerd, here. I guess I need to check my horn against my tuner and if it is in equal temperament and not closer to harmonic overtone series, I can whimper a little, and dream of days when the kids are out of college and I can have a new toy. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:47:12 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: tuning stuff Message-ID: <20000104144712.7608.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >My biggest worry when playing is that I don't play in tune, that I am >unable >to hear that I don't play in tune and that everyone around me is simply too >polite to say anything to me about it. Rod, After playing R&B and jazz for almost five decades, on guitar (tuned flat) and oboe for a few decades (concurrently), tuned however it comes out, I also worry that my sense of pitch has been stretched beyond accepted limits. I do find playing sharp to be particularly offensive, though, so I generally make sure that I say below that threshold. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:23:08 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: King 3B mouthpiece size, tuning & sound Message-ID: <20000104152308.74430.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK, I admit it. I'm an equipment junky and have a mouthpiece jones. I can't help it. No, really. I'd buy lots of different horns if my wife and kids didn't spend all the money. All I can afford is a bunch of used mouthpieces. I buy them, modify them (some of them have been modified severely)·and this is what I've found: First, I like a mouthpiece that fits my face. For me that's a mouthpiece with a Bach 6 or 7 size rim, but with an almost flat rim. Based on the shape of the cup, you can get almost any sound out of mouthpiece with basically the same rim. A shallow cup and small aperture will give you a brighter sound. A deep cup and large aperture will mellow that sound out. A funnel shaped "cup" will give you slightly better range (than a more "conventional" cup) and/but the sound will be just a little fuzzy, a little less bright. Presently, I've got three mouthpieces, with similar rims, that I switch off on. I can't help myself. I love them all. And by the way, Your wife won't let you have multiple women? Go for the oral gratification. Get yourself multiple mouthpieces·a mid-life crisis you both can live with. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:28:54 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Equipment question Message-ID: <20000104152855.91501.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hey all, > > I have truly enjoyed ready all of your comments for a long time now. > All > > of your insight has made me a better trombone player. I do have a > > question--- possibly a rather stange question. I am looking for the >absolute > > brightest, and in most cases, nastiest tenor trombone sound I can find. > > Does anyone have any recommendations? Partialty to the middle and upper > > ranges is favorable, as I could honestly care less about the low range. >Wow, > > Yall must think I'm crazy already. Matt, I suggest putting an English horn reed into your present mouthpiece and blowing it so hard that the whole instrument shakes and quakes. That's what I did for the New Year and it sounds truly terrible. What? You wanted to play music that way? I don't think so, but different strokes. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:47:05 +0000 From: Eric and Candice Swanson To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Equipment question Message-ID: <3871C196.AC45C978@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nossy121@aol.com wrote: > I am looking for the absolute brightest, and in most cases, nastiest tenor > trombone sound I can find. > Does anyone have any recommendations? Partialty to the middle and upper > ranges is favorable, as I could honestly care less about the low range. I suggest you try a King 2B. Eric From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:45:29 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: high D (10th partial) Message-ID: <200001041546.IAA46176@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: topper@research.panasonic.com trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from bob topper 01/04/00 08:19am -0500 > Hello all, > > Just curious. Do most of you play this D in 1st or in flat 2nd? On my > horn, 88h-CL, it is flat in 1st but not easy to pick out cleanly in 2nd. It depends on the instrument. On my Bach 36, I can't find that D in 1st position for love or money. Ninth partial C -- no problem, 11th partial Eb -- no problem. So I usually play that D in fourth. On my King 3B it pops out nicely (and actually slightly sharp) in 1st. On my main horn (a Bach 50) it's flat in first but quite clean in fourth. (NB: a leadpipe change cleaned up the high register on that horn a lot.) On the other hand, that's a bass, and as the eminent DY put it, "That means I don't have to play high Db's in public ..." Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:58:29 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Brass Instruments & Cryogenics Message-ID: <20000104155829.18312.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It's December 31st, and I need to be here, at work, in order to not have it count as a vacation day. No one's here, however, and so I spent a bit of time going through trombone related e-mail, that I've saved, over the last year. I occurred to me that treating a brass instrument to a cryogenic bath causes the materials that the instrument is made of to shrink. Now, chances are that the various materials will shrink at different rates. I'd be willing to believe that the brass is way stiffer than the solder, so that will cold work (sorry for the pun) the solder, which will make it remain harder, after it returns to room temperature. Might this account for the "improvement" in sound? DanP PS. For those of you that do not happen to be metallurgical nerds, let me try to explain "cold working". When you get metal quite hot, its molecules move around, so as to relieve internal stresses. When cooled back to room temperature, the metal is relatively soft. Alternatively, when metal is deformed, while in a cold state, internal stresses build up, in its crystal structure. By deformation, I mean that the material is shaped in some way. Deformation does not carry a bad connotation, here. If the material is deformed, so that it stays in that deformed state, much of that internal stress remains in the crystal structure. Now, that stress acts much like force on a spring. Let's take stretching a rubber band, for example. In the beginning, it takes very little force to stretch the rubber band just a little bit more. But if you put the rubber band around something, so that it's now stretched out, it takes far force to stretch it band out just a little bit more. In a cold worked state, residual internal stress makes it harder to further deform the material. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:02:06 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Equipment question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I would add to this the venerable old Conn Director. If you can't figure out how to break glass with this baby, you ain't trying. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric and Candice Swanson [SMTP:swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:47 AM > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Equipment question > > Nossy121@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I am looking for the absolute brightest, and in most cases, nastiest > tenor > > trombone sound I can find. > > Does anyone have any recommendations? Partialty to the middle and upper > > ranges is favorable, as I could honestly care less about the low range. > > I suggest you try a King 2B. > > Eric From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:31:10 -0500 From: "Art Triggs" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: Equipment question Message-ID: <001d01bf56d1$1dae9ec0$f6a315ac@bestweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That, and an original conn mouthpiece for it - it definitly will be bright.... unless of course the shape of your oral cavity and tounge do not lend itself to that kind of sound, a small axe wiith a small mouthpice will help, but it ends up being up to the player the rest of the time... Art Triggs ----- Original Message ----- From: DOWDY, KENNETH S To: Trombones and related issues forum. Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: RE: Equipment question > I would add to this the venerable old Conn Director. If you can't figure > out how to break glass with this baby, you ain't trying. > > Ken Dowdy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric and Candice Swanson [SMTP:swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:47 AM > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > Subject: Re: Equipment question > > > > Nossy121@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am looking for the absolute brightest, and in most cases, nastiest > > tenor > > > trombone sound I can find. > > > Does anyone have any recommendations? Partialty to the middle and upper > > > ranges is favorable, as I could honestly care less about the low range. > > > > I suggest you try a King 2B. > > > > Eric > From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:49:44 +0800 From: Wilson Ong To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Thayer Question Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000105004944.00941530@pop.singnet.com.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone, happy New Year! I have recently been facing problems with my Thayer valve. The lubricant (fast oil) I have been using, seems to dry out very fast and gets the valve stuck very badly. I have had to soak the valve in warm water for many times now to get the valve working again, but then I would need to lubricate it again to get the valve moving again. My simple question is, what specific lubricant do I use? Which one is the one Shires uses? Thanks Wilson From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:24:28 -0600 From: "DOWDY, KENNETH S" To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Equipment question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yes. And make sure you get the version with the standard brass bell. Ken Dowdy > -----Original Message----- > From: Art Triggs [SMTP:artyart@bestweb.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 10:31 AM > To: kdowdy@oppd.com; Trombones and related issues forum. > Subject: Re: Equipment question > > That, and an original conn mouthpiece for it - it definitly will be > bright.... unless of course the shape of your oral cavity and tounge do > not > lend itself to that kind of sound, a small axe wiith a small mouthpice > will > help, but it ends up being up to the player the rest of the time... > Art Triggs > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOWDY, KENNETH S > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 11:02 AM > Subject: RE: Equipment question > > > > I would add to this the venerable old Conn Director. If you can't > figure > > out how to break glass with this baby, you ain't trying. > > > > Ken Dowdy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eric and Candice Swanson [SMTP:swansonmacmail@worldnet.att.net] > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:47 AM > > > To: Trombones and related issues forum. > > > Subject: Re: Equipment question > > > > > > Nossy121@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for the absolute brightest, and in most cases, nastiest > > > tenor > > > > trombone sound I can find. > > > > Does anyone have any recommendations? Partialty to the middle and > upper > > > > ranges is favorable, as I could honestly care less about the low > range. > > > > > > I suggest you try a King 2B. > > > > > > Eric > > From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:19:55 -0500 From: Stephen Troy To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Thayer Question Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000104121955.008eaa30@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:49 AM 1/5/2000 +0800, Wilson Ong wrote: >My simple question is, what specific lubricant do I use? > >Thanks >Wilson For a great analysis of valve oils, check out: http://www.musichem.com/articles/p_oil_e.htm I use PRO-OIL HYBRID 141-A7 on my euph valves. Great stuff. I've also had great luck with Edwards Rotor Oil on my Thayer. Steve Troy From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:39:42 -0600 From: Nick Drozdoff To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: A couple of new MP3's Message-ID: <3872305D.3D956BC8@interaccess.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, and Happy New Year to you all. I have posted a couple of new MP3's with this little euphonium in use. Forest Green - an old English tune which, in addition to being in many Protestant hymnals is also a tune used for O Little Town Of Bethlehem. I use euphonium and flugel on the first verse and then add cornet and descant cornet on the second. This is real simple stuff, but that is part of the idea. I hope some of you might enjoy this. Down The Rabbit Hole - this is an original quasi acid jazz tune. I commit conical atrocities with the old Conn Victor cornet and the the old Besson euphonium. I don't mean to offend purists. I am just having some fun and trying to share. I hope some of you can enjoy this. url = http://www.mp3.com/NickDrozoff Thanks for your support. ND From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:21:44 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: Fwd: Dr. Douglas Lemmon Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This message was posted to the list, but due to a subscription problem was not sent. For futher information, contact David Bratcher at LM >>From owner-trombone-l Tue Jan 4 18:13:29 2000 >Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) > by po.missouri.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18458 > for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 12:13:28 -0600 >Received: from JTEAGARDEN@aol.com > by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id 7.0.7b44e1e6 (4589) > for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:12:53 >-0500 (EST) >Message-ID: <0.7b44e1e6.25a39224@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:12:52 EST >Subject: Dr. Douglas Lemmon >To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 > >Hello All, > >For anyone who may have known him, Doug Lemmon, Professor of Trombone at the >Univ. of Memphis, was killed in a car accident in Tenn yesterday Jan 3. He >was my teacher for my bachelors and Masters Degree and was a good trombonist, >teacher and friend. There will be a memorial at Harris Auditorium this >Friday Jan 7. > >If anyone out there knew him please write me personally at JTeagarden@aol.com > if you are interested. > >Thank You > >David Bratcher >MInneapolis MN > --------------------------------------- trombone-l digest archives and useful trombone-l information are available at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~tsks From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:53:30 -0500 From: Charles To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: baritone&tuba for sale CHEAP Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20000104175330.00682eb4@totcon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" King Baritone-3 valves- circa 1954 - laquer is shot- no major dents- valves are fine plays well $300 Elkhart BBb tuba - circa? - silver needs polishing- alot of small dents - valves are fine - plays rather well $300 or both for $500 you pay for shipping COD is OK From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:08:49 -0300 From: "Hugo García Sampedro" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: high D (10th partial) Message-ID: <01bf56e7$21fc9a20$14752bc8@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Hi I play it in 4th position (sometimes in flat 2nd); For me it's easier to play it in 4th than on flat 2nd. Besides, I like more the sound in 4th, but as allways, it depends on the horn, the player, the mouthpiece, etc. Also, in my main trombone it is not so out of tune in 1st, but to be sure that I can tune it I play it in 4th position. yours -Hugo From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:30:33 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Brass Instruments & Cryogenics Message-ID: <20000104203033.36396.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed See, I had thought that cryogenics was a technique used to relieve metal stresses...but according to Daniel the way to do that is heat the horn up, which makes much better sense due to the increased ability of molecules to move to different locations at high temperature. So now I'm puzzled. What's the point of cryogenics, again? -Aaron R. DanP said aloud while typing: >It's December 31st, and I need to be here, at work, in order to not have it >count as a vacation day. No one's here, however, and so I spent a bit of >time going through trombone related e-mail, that I've saved, over the last >year. > >I occurred to me that treating a brass instrument to a cryogenic bath >causes >the materials that the instrument is made of to shrink. Now, chances are >that the various materials will shrink at different rates. I'd be willing >to believe that the brass is way stiffer than the solder, so that will cold >work (sorry for the pun) the solder, which will make it remain harder, >after >it returns to room temperature. Might this account for the "improvement" >in >sound? > >DanP > > >PS. For those of you that do not happen to be metallurgical nerds, let me >try to explain "cold working". > >When you get metal quite hot, its molecules move around, so as to relieve >internal stresses. When cooled back to room temperature, the metal is >relatively soft. > >Alternatively, when metal is deformed, while in a cold state, internal >stresses build up, in its crystal structure. By deformation, I mean that >the material is shaped in some way. Deformation does not carry a bad >connotation, here. If the material is deformed, so that it stays in that >deformed state, much of that internal stress remains in the crystal >structure. > >Now, that stress acts much like force on a spring. Let's take stretching a >rubber band, for example. In the beginning, it takes very little force to >stretch the rubber band just a little bit more. But if you put the rubber >band around something, so that it's now stretched out, it takes far force >to >stretch it band out just a little bit more. > >In a cold worked state, residual internal stress makes it harder to further >deform the material. > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:05:59 PST From: "Daniel Pliskin" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Brass Instruments & Cryogenics Message-ID: <20000104210559.65809.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >See, I had thought that cryogenics was a technique used to relieve metal >stresses...but according to Daniel the way to do that is heat the horn up, >which makes much better sense due to the increased ability of molecules to >move to different locations at high temperature. So now I'm puzzled. >What's the point of cryogenics, again? Aaron, I've run into instances where stabilizing the horn gives it a more secure attack which, in and of itself, gives it a better sound. These include adding weight to the mouthpiece, adding weight to the bell and stiffening the bell by soldering the rim. Stiffening up the solder joints should also improve the stability of notes. That's my best shot at what might be happening. DanP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:05:42 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: new music for trombone choir Message-ID: <20000104220542.26449.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List: I just finished a piece for 24 trombones the other day. If anyone might be interested in premiering something, let me know and I'll send it once I finish my final draft and maybe put the piece on Finale. Be warned, though: this is not melody-accompaniment music; it is instead fully in the spirit of modernity. The required range is: double-pedal Bb for the lowest part to altissimo G for the highest (Bb0-G5). The piece is also rather free in style and execution. If anyone is interested, just email me. I might get a digiphoto of the score in a couple of weeks, for those interested in seeing the music. -Aaron Roth ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 19:48:32 -0300 From: "Hugo García Sampedro" To: , "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: RE: Thayer Question Message-ID: <01bf5705$d3bb8c80$14752bc8@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Hello Wilson What I found in my particular case is that there's a tendency in the oil in the base of the rotor (where the rotor meets the top plate) to dry and become a little "adhesive" (in absence of a better word in my limited English vocabulary). At a certain point, adding more oil not help anymore. When I wash the rotor I always find this phenomena, specially in the inner face of the top plate (in my case made of bronze). After washed and lubricated the problem ends. At least this is my experience. yours -Hugo From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:05:49 MST From: Dennis Clason To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: RE: Thayer Question Message-ID: <200001050006.RAA57840@nestor.NMSU.Edu> Addressed to: hgsamp@compudata.com.ar trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu ** Reply to note from Hugo García Sampedro 01/04/00 7:48pm -0300 > What I found in my particular case is that there's a tendency in the oil in > the base of the rotor (where the rotor meets the top plate) to dry and > become a little "adhesive" (in absence of a better word in my limited > English vocabulary). Adhesive is a good term, "sticky" would be more idiomatic in US English. > At a certain point, adding more oil not help anymore. > When I wash the rotor I always find this phenomena, specially in the inner > face of the top plate (in my case made of bronze). After washed and > lubricated the problem ends. At least this is my experience. Thayer valves get sticky when players use kerosene based oils because kerosene is relatively volatile (it will evaporate slowly. Well, most of it will). Piston valve instruments don't have that problem as much because pistons have a relatively low void space. When the kerosene evaporates, it has to go somewhere, right? That somewhere is the atmosphere in the valve. Kerosene lubricants are satisfactory in conventional rotary valves. The Thayer valve, though has an enormous amount of void space, and so lubricants dry up fairly quickly. They tend to leave a low-volatility residue behind that is ... well ... it's sticky. You can make the problem go away temporarily by adding more oil. But eventually you have to clean the valve up. There is a reason that Ed Thayer designed the valves so they break down easily for cleaning. I've had more success with synthetic lubricants in my Thayer valves. Personally, I use AliSyn and a (heavier) synthetic oil from Standard Oil of California on the spindle. In a Thayer valve you need two qualities in the lubricant: low volatility, and good sealing ability. I haven't found the ideal lubricant yet, but AliSyn works pretty well for me. Kerosene based valve oils are my last act of desparation (i.e., it's sticking, I need it loose NOW and I left my bottle of oil somewhere else and have to borrow some from a trumpet player.) I end up paying for the sin immediately afterwards by breaking the valve down and cleaning it up and promising I won't go so long between clean-ups again. Until the next time : ) Dennis -- Dennis L. Clason email: dclason@nmsu.edu Department of Economics / University Statistics Center New Mexico State University Las Cruces, New Mexico USA From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:29:18 -0800 From: David Oliver To: Trombone List Subject: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...) Message-ID: <3872BA8D.AB9213D4@access1.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought I'd let the list know that I received my ITF tape order from Mark Custom today. However, I just got 2 out of the 6 different tapes ordered as the others "did not grant permission for release". The only two I did get were: "Yo Right, Doug!" (Doug Yeo, et al.) University of North Texas Trombone Ensemble The purpose of this e-mail is not to point fingers - far from it in fact. However, if this is going to be the trend, the whole "get an ITF tape" opportunity will quickly become a joke. I recommend that in the future more of these issues be worked out on the front end, or that the practice of offering tapes be halted. One more thing. Mark Custom's default for the "not available" tapes is a credit for other recordings (they do have many good ones), so if you want your money back you need to send the form that came with the tapes back with the right area checked. I remember sending a check, so they've had my money for over 6 months now. Where's the interest? ;) Using my $40 credit, I'll likely just buy some of the great concert band CD's they have. I just wanted to let you all know that a refund is not automatic. Hopefully this won't be too controversial of an e-mail, but I felt I needed to write this. David Oliver Westminster, Colorado USA Bass/Tenor Trombone (utility), Denver Concert Band DCB Brass Choir (Bass Trombone) From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:18:42 -0800 From: " Dan Cloutier" To: topper@research.panasonic.com Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: high D (10th partial) Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:19:01 bob topper wrote: >Do most of you play this D in 1st or in flat >2nd? On my horn, 88h-CL, it is flat in 1st but >not easy to pick out cleanly in 2nd. Most do play a little flat in 1st, but there are horns (and players) out there that have a great high D in 1st. To connect this with another recent topic, another reason for a spring in the slide is to be able to play the high D in 1st. --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:18:21 -0600 From: Listmonitor Trombone-L To: Trombone-L Subject: POSTING PROBLEMS Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you have recently tried to post, but received an error message stating you were not subscribed to the trombone-l, please e-mail me at tsks@cjnetworks.com LM From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:24:12 -0800 From: " Dan Cloutier" To: wilong@singnet.com.sg Cc: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Thayer Question Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:49:44 Wilson Ong wrote: >I have recently been facing problems with my >Thayer valve. The lubricant (fast oil) I have >been using, seems to dry out very fast and gets >the valve stuck very badly. Yep, petroleum distillates will do that. Try a synthetic oil instead. I suggest the blue Space Filler. It works well in Thayers. Also, you may need to take some steel woll are carefully rub the scum off the inside of the upper plate of the Thayer valve. Sometimes this piece (witch is raw brass on the inside) gets some buildup. --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:20:55 -0500 From: Bruce A Wilcoxon To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Fw: Nat Adderly dies at 68 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A friend just sent this to me. bruce > > >*** Nat Adderly dies at 68 > > > >LAKELAND, Fla. (AP) - Nat Adderley, a member of the Jazz Hall of Fame > >who played on nearly 100 albums, died on Sunday of complications from > >diabetes. He was 68. Inducted into the Hall of Fame in Kansas City in > >1997, the Florida-born cornetist first came to prominence with his > >older brother, bebop saxophonist Julian "Cannonball" Adderley, in the > >1950s. The composer of such jazz standards as "Work Song" and "Jive > >Samba," Nat Adderley was known for recordings by his own group and > >with his late brother's Cannonball Adderley Quintet. Since > >Cannonball's death in 1975, Nat had led his own quintets. His most > >notable sidemen were altoists Sonny Fortune and Vincent Herring. In > >1997, he joined the faculty of Florida Southern College as artist in > >residence. He had also headlined and hosted the school's annual > >"Child of the Sun Jazz Festival" for more than 10 years. ### > > > > > > > > > > Bruce A Wilcoxon bawilcox@ix.netcom.com Sunrise, FL Bass trombone Tenor trombone Tuba From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:45 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:56:12 PST From: "Aaron Roth" To: trombone-l@lists.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Thayer Question Message-ID: <20000105055612.94211.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dan Cloutier said aloud while typing: >>Also, you may need to take some steel woll are carefully rub the scum off >>the inside of the upper plate of the Thayer valve. Sometimes this piece >>(witch is raw brass on the inside) gets some buildup.<< Personally, I'm afraid to touch any moving parts of my horn with steel wool...it can scratch metal and leave grooves in it, which can permanently and possibly seriously damage a valve's performance...assuming the raw brass is soft enough to take scratching from the steel, which I think is the case. If this is a B.S. point of view then I'll take correction like a good sport, but personally I use a soft cloth all over the horn. I had the buildup you're talking about the first (and last) time I opened my Thayers up (indeed, the horn hadn't been chemically treated for AT LEAST six years and probably not taken apart for cleaning either during that time), and they've been more friendly since then. It's a good idea, so long as you know what you're doing. -Aaron Roth | /| | _ / | | ___________________/---/ | Lemme stick some Thayers | / | on this baby! | / __________________ | | / / _||_ || \---\_ | || / /King\ || \ | | \ \ \3B-F/ || \| | \ \__||______||______________________________________ | \___________________________________________________ \ | | | | | ___ \ \ | |ø---- __|_|____|_|_________________________\_/ / | | }_____________________________________<>_/ | |_---- Pet Peeves: ATM Machine = automated teller machine machine PIN Number = personal identification number number HIV Virus = Human Immunodeficiency Virus Virus Rio Grande River = River Big River Sierra Nevada Mountains = Mountains Snowy Mountains (Mail suggestions to: ) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:46 2000 Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:01:11 -0800 From: David Oliver To: Trombone List Subject: [Fwd: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...)] Message-ID: <3872EC37.D8711A7E@access1.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3E6BF94D60CC7AE116F16848" This is a repost. I didn't see it the first time, but also didn't get a message saying I wasn't subscribed. David Oliver Message-ID: <3872BA8D.AB9213D4@access1.net> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:29:18 -0800 From: David Oliver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Trombone List Subject: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought I'd let the list know that I received my ITF tape order from Mark Custom today. However, I just got 2 out of the 6 different tapes ordered as the others "did not grant permission for release". The only two I did get were: "Yo Right, Doug!" (Doug Yeo, et al.) University of North Texas Trombone Ensemble The purpose of this e-mail is not to point fingers - far from it in fact. However, if this is going to be the trend, the whole "get an ITF tape" opportunity will quickly become a joke. I recommend that in the future more of these issues be worked out on the front end, or that the practice of offering tapes be halted. One more thing. Mark Custom's default for the "not available" tapes is a credit for other recordings (they do have many good ones), so if you want your money back you need to send the form that came with the tapes back with the right area checked. I remember sending a check, so they've had my money for over 6 months now. Where's the interest? ;) Using my $40 credit, I'll likely just buy some of the great concert band CD's they have. I just wanted to let you all know that a refund is not automatic. Hopefully this won't be too controversial of an e-mail, but I felt I needed to write this. David Oliver Westminster, Colorado USA Bass/Tenor Trombone (utility), Denver Concert Band DCB Brass Choir (Bass Trombone) From ???@??? Wed Jan 05 07:28:46 2000 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:31:26 -0600 From: Chad Horsley To: "Trombones and related issues forum." Subject: Re: [Fwd: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...)] Message-ID: <3872E53E.E6827E51@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was one of the tapes that was refused the Four of a Kind concert? If so....let me tell you that I will be one of many very unhappy people. David Oliver wrote: > This is a repost. I didn't see it the first time, but also didn't get a > message saying I wasn't subscribed. > > David Oliver > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Got the 1999 ITF Tapes (but...) > Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:29:18 -0800 > From: David Oliver > To: Trombone List > > I thought I'd let the list know that I received my ITF tape order from > Mark Custom today. However, I just got 2 out of the 6 different tapes > ordered as the others "did not grant permission for release". The only > two I did get were: > > "Yo Right, Doug!" (Doug Yeo, et al.) > University of North Texas Trombone Ensemble > > The purpose of this e-mail is not to point fingers - far from it in > fact. However, if this is going to be the trend, the whole "get an ITF > tape" opportunity will quickly become a joke. I recommend that in the > future more of these issues be worked out on the front end, or that the > practice of offering tapes be halted. > > One more thing. Mark Custom's default for the "not available" tapes is a > credit for other recordings (they do have many good ones), so if you > want your money back you need to send the form that came with the tapes > back with the right area checked. I remember sending a check, so they've > had my money for over 6 months now. Where's the interest? ;) > Using my $40 credit, I'll likely just buy some of the great concert band > CD's they have. I just wanted to let you all know that a refund is not > automatic. > > Hopefully this won't be too controversial of an e-mail, but I felt I > needed to write this. > > David Oliver > Westminster, Colorado USA > Bass/Tenor Trombone (utility), Denver Concert Band > DCB Brass Choir (Bass Trombone) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ____/ Chad Horsley (____\____ Email: tbneplyer@mindspring.com o||_____) AOL Instant Messenger: Tbneplyer ICQ: 33170757 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-